Jo-Ann Reeder

OK, so I am here with Jo-Ann on February 24th. It Is about 1:05 in the afternoon, we're at Elijah's Promise on Neilson Street. Do you prefer that I start with asking questions?

Mmhmm. Go ahead.

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Okay. So what brings you here?

Um, to services for, um, for, for, um people that were homeless? I was once homeless. And a lot of people here so far as Marisol and a couple of people that aren't here anymore, um, helped me a lot. It told me I could go to different, um, pr- programs and stuff to get, get housing and stuff. I had - and I now have Section 8. I've had Section 8 for almost goin on three years.

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Um, I used to be homeless for a whole summer on New Brunswick when I first came. I didn't know anybody or anything. So a lot of other homeless people that have told me which services to go to get help. And largest Elijah's Promise helped me a lot, um, as far as food and stuff. Curtis made me fat.

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[Laughter] He's a good cook?

[chuckles] Yeah. When I first came here I was really small. I was around, like, a double zero I'm like a size eleven now. So, um, yeah, I try to help other people cause somebody al- somebody helped me. So I always say if somebody helps you it's your responsibility to give back. You can't keep it unless you give it away. Long story short, um, I like my housing now. I try to help other people as much as I can. I can't--I can never say -- to never say that you're not going to be homeless because you never know your situation. I mean, yeah, you can, you can be at work one minute and the next thing you know, your house burns down and bam - you're homeless. You-- it doesn't have to be always bad situation. Things occur on a, on a daily basis and you never know when it's you. So I try to respect those because I was always I was one of them. And I know people now that were homeless that continually help. I know there's a guy named Walter Harris. He helps people continuously. And he doesn't get any-anything out of it - no profit or anything. He does it all from his heart. That's the way I try to be with other people.

Um. I'm engaged also now.

Congratulations!

Yeah. Um, my boyfriend's a really nice guy. Um, I get along very well with, with his family. You try to take care of each other. Um, I love his grandkids [chuckles]. Um, but back to being homeless. There's a lot of, a lot of people over here. It's kind of sad because they don't want to do the footwork. You have to do the footwork cause in, in New Brunswick there's a lot of you can...always gonna make sure...People are always gonna feed you and to let organizationsa nd soup kitchens help - they give you food. They also give you clothes, um, cosmetics and stuff. But as far as like your personal stuff, as far as getting housing and getting back all your I.D. papers and stuff, you have to do the footwork anyway. The regime does. I mean, nobody can come a drop in your lap. You've got to do the footwork. It's like they say God helps those who helps them -helps themselves. You want to if you feel tired of being the way you are there...want someone...so God always sees people who help themself so he tries to help, but it is up to you to take that first step.

Hell I - I remember I was sleeping outside for a whole entire summer, but I was determined not to sleep-- I wasn't raised like that. And I have like sisters and brothers that are younger than me. So I have to like make sure that I'm there to take care of them. But if I don't take care of me then I can't care of no -- no one else. So. That's like how I am now. I mean, I don't have any kids or anything, but I like kids a lot, too. I get along with my boyfriend's, um, grandkids. I try to, like, meet --especially these younger people nowadays. It's bad. They have like this all -- back when I was born, it wasn't no such thing as bullying and stuff. I mean, if you got to a fight, you got into a fight, you know, like, five minutes later you were friends again. You took a toy out of the sandbox and went home, and the next day or days you were playing with the same kid again. It's not like that nowadays. And --

Can I ask you a little more about that? About your childhood, what it was like growing up, when you were born?

Oh, yeah. I had a mother and father. My mother and father loved us a lot. We had responsibility as far as... our chores in the house and taking care of what we were supposed to and going to school and stuff. I'm fourteen [thirteen?] my mom got sick so I didn't finish school. I got up to the 12th grade, but then I went back and I got my GED on the first try. Then I went to culinary arts school. I like to cook. Yeah. I had a lot of jobs as far as like cooking and stuff. My dad was a chef. He gave me and my two sisters some pan drippings and flour and told us to make gravy from scratch. And he come in the kitchen every time it was wrong or lumpy, he'd dump it in a thing, go, nope - do it over til we got it right [laughs]. I'm thankful now cause now I know how to cook, I like to cook. I love. I watch a lot of, um, cooking shows on, oh Food Network and stuff. I like to cook. Um....

May I ask how old you are?

60. Yeah. I'm the oldest of four. I have two sisters and two brothers. I have no kids, but I have nieces and nephews. I talked to my sis...my sisters.... When it's good, it's kind of true when they say that. When your mom's the glue when she passes away, because of the way my mom was...like the glue of the family. When she passed away, we were all close and living in one house. Once she, once she passed away, everybody went on their own. But most of my brothers and sisters, they all have kids and, kids and married. And so I'm the only one [chuckles] I'm the oldest and don't have any kids. I'm getting married. But I keep in contact with my brothers and sisters. Yeah. I miss them a lot, though. I also have a god mother, she moved to Florida. She keeps in touch with me a lot of the time.

Where did you live growing up?

Oh, South Jamaica, Queens.

OK.

Yeah, I went to school there. My mom had my little brother there. It was funny. My mom was like in her 60s and my fath-...no...50s...she was like in her late 50s. And my father was in his 60s. My mom had a, my mom got pregnant with my little brother.

Wow!

He weighs twelve pounds twelve ounces. Yeah. She carried him the whole entire time. [laughs] Yeah.

But then, um, unfortunately ca, his... My dad had diabetes. I didn't have and none of us had it. My little brother got it. So I think he was younger when my mom and dad passed away. I think when two people are together for a long time and one passes away, I think the other one dies from a broken heart. So my, my mom passed away from breast cancer... not even from the breast cancer. Technically, she was - the cancer was in remission, but she was given a chemotherapy shot and chemotherapy gave her a bleeding ulcer. And also so she'd die from that instead. Because she was going back to work and everything. It was the medication. But all Muslim medicines have side effects. They don't tell you about it. But anyway, my little brother now he's 40. Think he's 43?

And he uh, yeah, he's on. He's on dia, he's on dialysis now. And he had one of his toes amputated, he got diabetes. Yeah. And him and, and my, my sister has it, too. She has it really bad too. It, It's skipped me and my other little sister. I tried to make sure they're OK. I have a uncle, too. He's eighty nine years old. He's in a V.A. hospital. He was the Valedictorian of his class. He went to Howard University. The day he was supposed to graduate, they drafted him. He never made it...that's the reason, I don't think. So.

Was he in Vietnam?

Yeah, he's in the V.A. hospital now in Queens. My mother-- he's the only, only one living. My mother's brothers and sisters? The only one left. Yeah. Well, then..yeah, I don't, I don't know.

So when, when you...you said you went, and you got your GED.

Mhmm. I went to Howard University. I mean, I mean, excuse me. I went to, um, to Hudson Community College. Yeah. I used to work in Syosset, Long Island. I worked with, they had, what is it - Bar Mitzvahs in the kitchen with the chef. Yeah. I like to cook. So. [chuckles]

How long did you live in New York and work on Long Island, and then when did you come to New Jersey?

I came to...okay. I had a guy...he...me and this guy was girlfriend and boyfriend. We were together like 21 years almost. And after all, things started, didn't started working out. So he went his way and I went mine. I took like five years to learn who I was -- for me without him. So I lived in like in, like, Newark for like, what, three years? Yeah.

From Queens to Newark?

Mmhm. From Newark I went here to New Jersey. But I'm -.

When did you come to New Brunswick?

New Brunswick? Three years ago.

What brought you here?

Hmm..I dunno some place I'd never been here. Like I say when I first came here I didn't know nobody but nothing, but there were people that people that would actually help. Tell you to go here for this, there for that. But like I said, a lot of those people, I still see are homeless but that's because, I say, you have to want it bad enough. Some people get comfortable being a way or you say comfortability kills if we allow it. So I try not to get comfortable in any situation. But nowadays, the way the world's going and everything's subject to change in a blink of an eye. [chuckles] Oh yeah. Well, I just do what I gotta do for me and I think I'm going to open my eyes away from that. I have a lot of friends there nowadays with that. As far as drugs and stuff. It's bad. You couldn't pay me to get high after you paid for drugs because, you know, you might as well just take a gun to shoot yourself with that. With that fentanyl stuff? You play Russian roulette with your life. And I'm quite sure God didn't birth you to, to freaking kill yourself like that. It's ridiculous how, y'know, a lot of people want to waste their lives getting high. I've seen so much of it, it's ridiculous - I can't understand how somebody would want to continue to live like that. Why you want to do something that's gonna make you sick? That's no fun getting...I can find something else to do with my time.

I like to read a lot, still. I have, um, yeah I have a guy friend, he likes to, um, look on the phones, oh, these kids with the phones, are ridiculous. Little kids who were downloading games and stuff. But I was reading and reading an actual newspaper and this kid on the bus said to me that you could read anything on your phone. I'm like, no. I'd rather read a newspaper. It's not the same. I really have to have the paper or the book. I still read books, too. [chuckles].

What do you like to read?

Um. I read a lot of novels and documentaries of other people's lives. Yeah. I like to read some of the books that come out in movies. I read the book, um, for Black History. I read, um, I read them, um, the book, um, Just Mercy - Jamie Fox and Michael B Jordan? Yeah, I like Black - I read it for Black History.

What'd you think of that book?

I liked it. I didn't go see the movie, I rather, I've read the book.

I wanna see it too. [laughs].

Yeah? [chuckles].

Yeah, great book.

And they have this show on TV now, that, um, Fifty Cent made, it's called, "Life," comes on on Tuesdays, about a black guy in jail tryna, you know. Yeah, Id like, I like to watch the news to allow, watching..watch the news. It's kind of sad, but you know, if you don't watch the news now, you know, you'll step out your front door you won't know what's going on in the world. Yeah. Has to keep up with current events all the time now [chuckles], you know?

May I ask what your life was like before you became homeless?

Oh, um, I I had a boyfriend. I would go to school, go to work, come home, cook, bring...hang out with, with my guy, my sisters and brothers. And that's it, basically. Basically, when I was younger, I used to always like to stay to myself, I'm like mostly yourself, stay to myself.

Where were you working at the time?

Oh, in Syosset, Long Island. I worked in a synagogue when it's possible worked in the kitchen. I worked in the kitchen, I worked in the coat room, wherever they need me, I worked. But I like the kitchen best [chuckles]. One thing about being a chef, there's a lot of responsibility because I notice that every time something came out wrong or wasn't enough food for all -- for the people that ordered, sorry you've got to wait [laughs]. You have got to blame for everything. That's a very stressful job. But then in, in another way - it's a very good job of, people always going to eat so you can always find a job somewhere.

I was, I was, I was bein a s, a sous chef once. I helped me let him help me prep the food. I was a sous chef. I wash dishes. The food industry is a good job to have cause people are, people are always going to have to eat. So you could always find a job doing something. Mmhmm.

So then what, what led to you becoming homeless?

Hmm stress. People stress all out it get to me. I just got I reached my limit and just got up and left. Just walked out and left [chuckles]. I couldn't any more. I thought to myself - it's me or them. I had a decision. Well, I had to make a decision whether me or them. Had to be me.

Before you came to New Brunswick were you in Syosset then?

No I was in Pennsylvania. In Allentown.

Pennsylvania, ok.

[phone presumably makes sound] Sorry. People call my phone all day. I hate the notification.

Oh yeah [chuckles]. So what was it like in, in Allentown? Trying to find a place to stay?

I was living with my godson and mother. It was OK. But there was a lot of kids. Kids, her kids her cousin's kids, I was always with kids. Constantly with kids. Yeah. One of them was my godson and I got attached to his little brother when he was born. Yeah.

Did you always have a place to sleep or were you ever sleeping outside?

No, I had a place to sleep. I always had a place to sle--until I came to New Brunswick.

What was it like once you came here then?

I felt relieved, I didn't have no responsibility no more, I had to take care of myself. It's kind of strange. Like it's kind of weird taking care of other people's children, cause they would have...But you can't blame - they have expectations. I don't want the expectations anymore. I'd rather just take care of myself.

So Marisol found me out there. I slept outside on three chairs for a whole summer until I--But then after that, I went to social services. They put me in a hotel. I stayed there and I kept looking for housing. And I, I went to a lot of programs that helped me with, um, I.D., because when I move -when I left from where I was, I left everything.

So I had to acquire all my I.D. and stuff for me. You know how hard it is to get I.D. I would rather lose money than lose my I.D., cause look, you gotta have I.D. to get I.D. [laughs] How do you need to get I.D. to get I.D.? But that's how it is. So I had to acquire all my I.D. and stuff back. But I got it all back now. Yeah. I treasure my stuff now. Cause I know what I went through.

What were your days like when you were --

Trying to find housing? I had the income. I just couldn't find housing. Yeah.

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Where were you working?

I could, I was on disability then. Yeah, um, but I still worked for a time. But kind of hard to find housing in a place [pause] hmm..mostly New Brunswick is like for Rutgers.

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So a lot of the places I went to look for housing, a lot of people, even the ones that own houses would actually...if I was a Rutgers student, they got first priority. It was quite a time.

But, eventually, if I kept, I wouldn't give up. So I found a place to stay. I like- as a matter of fact, college students are on the other side of me. I live, yeah, I live around near, around near hospital. Yeah, but, it's okay now. I'm doing a lot better now.

I live around here. Around your hospital. Yeah, but it's okay now. I'm doing a lot better now. Hmm. I just try to help other people, cause I know, for sake of God there go I. That's how I was if I...keep on, if I don't keep on- keep on top of myself I could be that way again.

They have gotten Section 8 and lost it - let it slip through their fingers. It's, once you get - Section 8 is a privilege because you know how much rent and stuff cost.

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Yeah, I got a nice apartment. I have hardwood floors. I have a washer and dryer. I have a balc-- I keep my eye out and the lady when I move, move there - I can understand that, they say it's the Section 8 district because she told me once you moved here and not to let people in and out, cause they cause a disturbance. And it's just like, you knew it was [inaudible] I'm very, even when I moved in I don't my own - want my name on the door. I don't, nobody. If you're in my house it's because I brought you here and I trust you. I'm not bringing nobody [laughs]. I know there's people around, but I see them outside and I go home to my house. Nope.

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How is it tough to, to hold on -- is that what you mean? Tough to hold onto Section 8 because of the rules, or the paperwork, or?

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people they get it and they don't treasure it. If, if - you're fortunate. I think the Section 8 thing was closed for like eight years. Yeah. I was fortunate enough to get it.

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Is it a long wait right now?

Yeah. Now it is. They closed it back up again. So if you have it, hold onto it. It's not. They don't just give it to you. Ha. If you're fortunate enough to get it. I went through a lot. I was living in a hotel and the hotel I was like, I think it was on Route one eight. one eight, something like that.

Anyway, I had to catch the shuttle back and forth every day in the snow, cause I was determined. I didn't want to stay there either because those hotels are expensive. I was actually paying--I paid more for my hotel room within a week than I pay for my rent right now within a whole month. I treasure my apartment. [giggles] Yeah, I like my apartment. It's quiet, and you know, those slum stuff go on around me and I try not to... I just go where I go and come in my house. I try to keep busy.

You mentioned that you're doing some advocacy work on behalf of people experiencing homelessness. What is that like?

I like it. Like I said, someone helped me. They didn't have to...for the sake of God there go I. That could be me again. I look at people. I see how some people treat other people that are...everybody falls down on their luck once in a while. It's not nice that other eople treat other people less than. You never know. It can be you. I was, I was one of those people. Like when I was over at Barnes and Noble outside for like a summer, there was this one particular lady. She would always come off the train. The trains right there. I'd watch her come on off the train. And she'd always tell the Uber driver to hurry because she doesn't want to be around the homeless people.

I actually went up to her one day, I was like, You know what? You're waiting for your ride to go home. You can get home and your house burned down and bam, you're homeless, stuff like that. Shouldn't judge other people. Everybody has...everybody has to take a better look. Well, you never know. It's not what you do is how you do it. It's like that song, that gospel song. You -- if you fall down, you should always try to get back up. Don't just lay and wallow in it. God always, has, has his hand out to reach for you, help you back up. It's up to you.

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Did a lot of people say things like that woman? Was it difficult?

A lot of people. But then, there's a lot of other people to help you. Yeah, but some people take advantage of it. It's ridiculous. That's the, the kind of thing that makes it bad for -- a lot of those people, they use drugs and stuff. You can look at some of them and tell who -- that that's what they want the money for.

They make it bad for some people -- then why even help the homeless. Like like I say today and this day and age is people the ones that do use drugs. And I've gone to whatever - no place. A place nobody want to be at.

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Did you have any sort of interactions with police?

No, no. I tried. I try to do what I'm supposed to. I like my freedom. I don't want to be hin jail [chuckles].I like my freedom. That's beside - my, my godmother, she was into politics. So we, when we all turned 18, she made us register to vote.

So I vote all the time and I try to be upstanding citizen. I. I like my freedom too much. Yeah.

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They didn't bother you when you were sleeping outside?

No. There was two guys I met and they're very nice guys. They always kept careful watch cause I was the only girl. O-one would go to work, any the other one would watch like all day. I hang around with him if I wasn't going to look for housing or anything. He hang around with me. And then when the other one came home, they like take..makin sure, even when I slept outside there. They like helped, helped me a lot. Yeah.

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So there were a lot of other people sleeping in the same area?

Yeah. And then it will fine in the beginning until the people with the drugs came around. And once they came around, did drugs ever in any way. Technically that property that we're on, that Barne's and..., that's col-- Rutgers College property. And they just made it bad. Made it so bad to where the college students didn't want to sit out there. And people walking on and off the train watching, looking at 'em and...it just got bad. So after a while, they were forced to remove the chairs and stuff so they couldn't sit out there.

I mean, they get high and get sick, and, I mean this and the like. People would give us food and stuff. Instead there's like six to seven trash cans when the guy came clean in the morning, it's like piles of garbage at one side of the thing. But we were -- we would always clean up behind ourself that the people down there [inaudible]. And once they made you make it was like, you know, everybody started going there.

But the guy in, um, there was the - there's this one guy who works in the, um, Barnes and Noble. He was very nice. So like when I came in. Sometimes I leave my bag. He'd watch my bag. Long - long as I didn't cause any trouble or nothin, I didn't want to get him in trouble, he would lose his job. There was people that came in there, they take clothes and bags and bags. That's what I don't understand about why people are homeless, you can't care -- I understand those are your posessions, but you can only take so much stuff with you cause then you can't ride the bus with it, they don't let you on the bus with it. You can't go in restaurants with it. So.

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Did you move around at all during that time, trying to find housing?

Yes. I stayed right here. I went to a lot of different agencies in the area. They took me to different, told me, gave, gave me different pro-programs and stuff to go to. And the guy- there's a guy who works here, Jason Clay. He helped me a lot too. Help me with applications. He helped me fill em out. He's a very nice guy. Yeah. He helps a lot.

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A lot of people here that help you. Chef Curtis will feed you. Marisol and , and, and, um, and Jason Clay'll help you for housing or anything. Yeah, cause I needed my birth certificate. Mari-- me and Marisol went online, I went online all the way to New York and she set the thing up for me and I gave her the money order and it took about uh, a week and a half but I got it back. Yeah. Cause like I said, you need I.D. to get I.D. She helped me a lot. She still helps me a lot. I love Marisol. Yeah.

Are there any other stories that you want to share about, anything about your life at all?

No. I'm just trying to do what I gotta do to keep from going back to where I was. I wouldn't wish that on nobody. And if you're, if you find yourself like that, not to give up on yourself. Um, there's a will, there's always a way for me. So my I have thousands of people, there's always...one person. Reach out they hand and say, here, I'll help you. So you shouldn't give up on yourself. So that's about it I guess. Hmm.