James Geller

August 29, 2017 coLAB Web Administrator

James Geller describes his life as a trans man and recounts how his relationships with himself, his family, and his friends have evolved over time. James narrates his passion for technical theater as well as the difficulties he has faced in building a community of trans men.

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Transcript

Interview conducted by John Keller

Highland Park, New Jersey

August 29, 2017

Transcription by Kether Tomkins

00:00:00

Okay great, um, my name is John Keller and, um, I'm conducting an oral history today on August 29th, 2017, it's approximately one o'clock in the afternoon, and we are at the Pride Center of New Jersey and I am interviewing–

Uh, James Geller.

Great, um, and we'll just get started. So James, again, thank you for doing this.

No problem.

And, um, I was wondering, uh, we'll just kind of start from the beginning, where were you born?

I was born in, um, Westchester County, New York, which is not, as many New Jerseyans think, upstate. [laughs] Um, where I'm from, I was raised in Yorktown, New York, which is still considered a suburb of New York City, um, I went– I went through school in the Lakeland School District, um, Benjamin Franklin Elementary School, Copper Beech Middle School, Lakeland High School. Um, graduated high school class of 2000, that fall I started college at Manhattanville College, which is in Purchase, New York, near White Plains, and right down the road from SUNY Purchase. Um, it was in college, my– I want to say my sophomore year, that I came out as bisexual, um, even though that was something I had figured out earlier on. Um, [clears throat] being transgender, took me a little longer to figure out, you know, even going through like, you know, in my early childhood, and elementary school and so on, I knew I wasn't really “girly,” um, but at the time, it was just like, alright, I'm a girl, 'cause that's what I am, that's what I look like, that's, you know. Um, and, nothing else really, in– in my vocabulary, in my world views, seemed to give any indication that anything else was an option. Um, and, you know, I do come from a very open minded, open-to-whatever family. Um, you know, my mother had a hairdresser who was, um, gay, and at one point I was talking about Melrose Place when it first came on the air, and how one of the characters was gay, and apparently the way I made it sound was like it was something bad or– even though I didn't mean that, and my mother looks at me as the hairdresser steps away and says, "You know, watch what you say." You know, it's not– and I'm like, “I didn't mean it to be it, like, um.…” So, you know, my family is very open-minded, understanding. When I did finally tell my parents I was bi, my mother's reaction was to look at me and say– and I'm not exaggerating or joking here, she looked at me and said, "Really? We always thought you were a lesbian."

00:03:18

[Laughs]

No joke. Um, but again, in terms of being transgender, it wasn't really on the radar. Like, I'm a girl, that's what I got to deal with. Um, you know, I usually stuck with more unisex clothing, men's pants because I like having pockets. Unisex t-shirts for the most part. Um, [clears throat] always men's sneakers, uh, just because the arch on my foot was weird and– and the arch in men's and women's shoes are in different places, and I couldn't really wear women's shoes. Like, that was the physical nature of my feet. Which I blame on my father, who has weird feet, and that's a separate issue [laughs]. Um, [clears throat], and that– that– the shoe thing was just out of physical necessity, um, the men's pants just you know, utility, like, I don't like carrying around a purse because it's another thing for me to leave behind and forget, I'd rather have everything in my pockets. In the summer, I wear cargo shorts, in the winter, I usually wear jeans, or cargo pants, but it's cold, so I have a jacket and that has pockets. Um, so, you know, I would dress in more masculine clothing. At one point, in my senior year of high school, I was, in addition to being part of the, uh, techie with the drama club in school, uh, a friend of mine was working with an outside theatre group, also of other high-school-age students, but from different schools, um, and I got brought in as a techie there, and I asked a couple of the girls on the cast, if they could, like, take me shopping, and help me be a little more girly. Um, so, we got me some pants, some shirts, and, you know, I wore them for a while, and eventually they just became like, things I'd wear to work if I was in a business casual environment.

00:05:26

And then, you know, I reached a point, like, when I was at RadioShack, you know, you wear a RadioShack shirt, so I didn't really have much choice there. Um, but eventually around 2009, 2010, I finally said, “That's it, I'm done with feminine clothing.” Um, I went to a couple of weddings in suits and ties and, you know, nobody really questioned it. I went on interviews in suits and ties and, you know, my parents questioned it at one point, I said, “You know, look, if someone gives me a hard time about this, I will give them an entire rant about gender roles [laughs] and expectations.” And growing up– at one point, I had heard about, you know, Chaz Bono and, you know, at that time, I like– I don't really follow celebrity gossip, for one thing. I didn't really grasp what it meant that Chastity was becoming Chaz, and, it was also like, the child of Sonny and Cher is doing something, well, whoop-de-do. It's like, you know, this is like, a celebrity because of who their parents were, it's like the Kardashians, they're in the news, but it didn't really mean anything to me.

Mmm.

Um, and then, as I got older, you know, I started hearing more about, you know, transgender women, um, Laverne Cox, um, eventually Caitlyn Jenner and, you know, this is– we're talking about a person who voluntarily joined the Kardashian family, so that one again, [laughs] I had issues with. Um, and there still really wasn't really much about transgender men. [Clears throat] Um, and then there was the competition or whatever it was, to be on the cover of Men's Health magazine and one of the contenders was Aydian Dowling, and I'm reading about him, and I'm like, hey wait a minute. This–this is a thing, this is– this is possible. Um, this was about, two– little over two years ago. Um, I was thirty-three years old, and suddenly I realized that, thoughts that I had always pushed to the back of my mind because there was nothing I could do about them, suddenly came to the forefront, because I realized something could be done about them. Um, so it was, uh, shortly after that, I went online to look for support groups, I found TrueSelves, um, I believe I started attending meetings in May of that year, so that would have been 2015. Um, yeah, 'cause I was about thirty-three. And, you know, I started attending meetings, like, not certain of anything, um, and then after like a month or two, I'm like, no, I'm trans, this all makes sense now. Um, [clears throat], so, um, I was back in New York for a friend's anniversary party, and I was staying with my parents, so, um, over dinner I came out to them. They kinda looked at me, looked at each other, shrugged their shoulders, and my mom said, "So just wearing the suits isn't enough anymore?" And I said, "Yeah, no." And she said, "Okay." [laughs] And then started asking questions, about what my plans for, you know, was I going to have surgery, um, you know, when– what was my timeline, what were the options, things like that. Um, [clears throat], this kind of goes along the lines of "we always thought you were a lesbian" thing, but my mother has always been jealous of two physical features of mine. My hair, which I inherited from my father's side of the family. And my chest, which I inherited from– not my mother. [Laughs] So, when I told her I planned on having top surgery, she joked, "Well, can I have them?" [Laughs]. Um [clears throat], so you know, that was my parents reaction.

00:10:07

Um, I had wanted to tell my brother the next morning, but there were issues, you know, he was having a lot of stuff going on, and my mother mentioned something to him that night about I wanted to talk to him, and he was like, "Can you just tell me what it is, I don't have time for whatever." So, she told him, and he kind of had the same reaction of, yeah, okay. Um, and the next day– you have to understand, my brother has one of those big bushy beards most of the time. He's not a hipster [laughs], just to make that clear, he's, um, what I like to call, the– the punk metal drummer look, with the short hair and the beard. Um, like if you picture the drummer from Fall Out Boy, kind of like that. Um, and so the next morning we did see each other and we had an argument over whether or not, one day I would be able to "out-beard" him. That was the argument, that was the concern there. Um [clears throat], it'll help me if I stop, you know, shaving and playing around with it, but– I've had beard envy for as long as I can remember, so now that I'm on testosterone, and can grow one, I like playing with it. And not to sound, um, s– you know, crazy, but I like playing with razors and the facial hair– not, you know, playing with razors in the cutting things kind of way– just to be, just to be clear on that one. You know, razors and facial hair, and, you know, seeing what looks work for me, what looks don't, and, you know, based on the weather. I mean, you know, I grew up– my father had a mustache year-round and would grow a beard in the winter. Because it kept his face warm. Except he didn't grow it up his cheeks, he just did like a line around the bottom of his chin, so I could never figure out how that helped [laughs]. But whatever. [Clears throat]

So, can I ask a question? So, uh, um, you were a– has your family always lived in the same place? So when you were born, is that the same place that your family lives now?

Um, now they're like one, two towns over, but same general area.

So uh, so when you were born, is your, um, you know, who was your– who was kind of like, the main– main, nucleus of your family? So it was your parents, and a sibling, older? Younger?

He's three years younger.

So um, uh, do you remember what your childhood was like? You know, kind of like where you lived, were you in a house, an apartment?

Oh, we were in a– we were in a house, it was a, a ranch– whatever, two floors and a landing in between, um, in-house garage, you know. Kitchen, bedrooms at one end, um [clears throat].

00:13:00

What do your parents do for a living?

Um, my father is a computer programmer. And, my mother was originally in programming, that's how she met my father, but once I was born, um, 'cause I'm– I'm the oldest, um, she became a stay at home mom, and dad made enough that she could do that. Um, one of the funny things I joke about, because I'm the oldest child, is I joke that, um, I'm their oldest child but I'm their second son [laughs]. Um, my mother yelled at me, she was like, don't make me wrap my brain around that [laughs]. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around that.

Do you have memories of being home with your mom?

Oh, yeah, sure. You know, it's like, we– You know, I um– I mean, my memory is not fantastic, I have mental health problems and the medication– between the mental health diagnoses that I have, and the medications to treat them, my memory ain't great. Um, but, you know, I remember I'd come home from school, mom would be there, I'd do my homework, um. You know, if she had to run errands, I'd go with her, you know, Elliot, that's my brother, would come along with us. Um, after he was born, um, I don't necessarily– like I don't really remember what things were like when Elliot came around, I was only three. You know, I remember more like later in my childhood, you know. Like, you know, elementary school, and like, you know, fifth and sixth grade, a little bit from fourth, like, you know. It's just– I mean, it's fuzzy. We're going back, you know, twenty-five, thirty years. You know.

Did you– did your family spend a lot of time together, kind of like, you know. You said your dad was working this whole time.

I mean, he worked Monday through Friday, um, he worked in Manhattan, so he had, because he took the trains, he had– well, he didn't always work in Manhattan, he worked in the city. So depending on where in the city, he could have anywhere from an hour and a half, to a two and a half hour commute. Um–

What kind of programming work was he doing?

Um–coding, mostly, uh, now he still does coding. He does, um, like the architecture for the coding, and I don't fully understand all of it. But he's never been an employee anywhere, he's always worked as a consultant. Um, his choice, his preference. So, you know, his contracts would change periodically. Um, which would be why his commute would vary. You know, was he working in Midtown, right by Grand Central, or would he have to go, you know, all the way downtown. He's worked in Brooklyn, right now he's working in Jersey City [clears throat]. Um, so his commute would vary, so there would, you know, during the week, there would be, you know, he was always gone by the time we woke up in the morning. There would be some jobs where he would come home, and he would be able to help tuck us into bed. Some jobs where he wasn't. Um, but he was around on the weekends. Um, I do remember being out in the yard trying to play baseball. Which, you know, me on one team and my brother on the other, and my father, and it doesn't really work with that few people. So, um, we'd wind up turning it into a game of catch or something. Um–

Did you have a group of friends in your neighborhood? Growing up?

Um.

Or did you have other kids, involved in the baseball game, every once in a while.

Not really. The kids who lived close to us, um, there were a couple of girls who were significantly younger, um, and eventually my brother wound up becoming friends with them, but I didn't– I was already older at that point and starting middle school, and my schedule was different, you know. Um, but the people I was friends with didn't live close enough that they could just walk on over and join the game. Um. But.

00:17:26

Were these friends you were friends with from school? Or were they–

Yeah. Yeah, but, you know, there was couple of towns that went to my school, not necessarily within walking distance and again, suburbs, not the city. You know, you'd need to convince your parents to drive you over, and by then we were playing catch already. [Laughs] There are photographs– I don't necessarily remember it per se, but there are photographs of Dad pulling us in the sled, in the backyard, um, [clears throat]. One of the things I do remember, and I'm not sure how many times we did it, I think we did it at least twice, but, um, when I was– it was before I turned five, I know that. We had a pool built in the backyard. Above ground, because of, I don't know, reasons. But we had a pool built in the backyard. So in the winter, it had a pool cover, and it had these pillow–these inflated pillow things in it, so that, as the water froze, it would squeeze on them, and not crack the outside of the pool. So I think twice, like once one year, and once another year, my father made up this game, and we were given a map. And it was, you know, our property, but you know, there were pillows in the pool, there were dragons in the lake and there were, and we had to go– It was kind of like a scavenger hunt and I have like, the vaguest memories of this, um, but. It was– I know Elliot was already old enough to join in, so– that probably puts it, so he would have been, I'd have to say at least three, so I would have been, six, maybe? Um, and, you know, Dad would come along, and we'd try to figure out the map, and the whatever, and we'd have a prize at the end, which is some silly toy he got for us.

00:19:42

Um, [clears throat]. Um– those are just some random memories from childhood. So, you know, my father, he worked during the week, and was around on weekends. Mom was around most of the time, um. In my childhood, when she still had a decent relationship with her sister, um, [clears throat]– that's another long story [laughs]. But at the time, she did, so, and my aunt lived out in California, not in but near Sacramento. So my mother would go out and visit her for like a week, you know, where it was like, we'd stay after school until Dad got home, he was working a different job, or he took off, or whatever, and he'd be around during the week. And we'd eat a lot of pizza and peanut butter and jelly [laughs]. I don't know how my father survived before my mother.

[Laughs].

Um, he– he can handle laundry. Although he once put fabric softener in the bleach dispenser, at which point my mother said, “I'm doing the laundry from now on [laughs].” Um, he could handle the laundry, but for him to cook, that would mean peanut butter and jelly on toast. Um, so I– I– I don't know what he did before mom [laughs]. Um, so but, you know, between Chinese food and pizza and going to other restaurants, we survived for a week [laughs].

Did you ever go on, kind of like, big family trips when you were a kid?

Um, occasionally. Um. When I was– oh! We actually– strangely now that I live down here, uh, we would come down to the Jersey Shore. Um. I believe we went to Long Beach Island. Um, but I can't be certain of that, because again, I was young. I have vague memories of, you know, being in a hotel and there being a pool. One year there was, um, like an older woman who kind of– was staying at the same hotel and kind of treated us like grandchildren sort of. Um, and for some reason, I don't know why this memory sticks out, that was– she gave us candy, and that was my first experience with Starburst. I don't know why that memory sticks out. Um, we would go to– I know we went to Massachusetts at least once, because friends of my parents, who my mother originally met at a Mommy and Me group when I was like an infant, moved to Massachusetts and opened up a hotel. So we went to Massachusetts, we stayed at their hotel, we hung out with them, we, you know, went around and did– I don't remember what part of Massachusetts that was.

00:22:50

Um, the Provincetown thing, um, my parents didn't start bringing us until I was, I believe, a sophomore in high school. Prior to that, that had been their thing, you know, when they went on vacation and Grandma and Grandpa stayed with me and Elliot. Um, but by the time I was a senior they started bringing us, and I sort of figured out why mom wanted to live there forever, cause it's nice, and you have– especially if you're in Provincetown, you have the ocean to your left and the bay to your right and you have everything, whale watching tours, and it's quiet and it's, you know.

You'd go during the summer?

Yeah. Well yeah, cause, you know, if I was still in high school, we had to make sure it was during vacation. Um, I mean, she– it's from Mom that I've inherited my love of not just swimming but, like, the ocean, and the water. That's why I try on Mondays to just go over to Sandy Hook and just chill on the beach. Because, you know, just smelling the salt water and hearing the ocean is very calming, very soothing. And that I get from Mom. Um, not that Dad doesn't like it, but he could take it or leave it.

00:24:14

[Coughs] Um, [clears throat]. Any other specific questions, or?

No great, you know, there's no agenda. I'm just kind of thinking of questions as I go along, but, um, so, uh, your parents and always kind of– you spent your whole childhood in this one house, the same neighborhood?

Yes. My parents moved into the house about at least a year and a half before I was born. They stayed in that house until my brother graduated high school. Um, by his senior year, when both of my grandparents on my mother's side had passed away, um, they– 'cause my mother inherited everything because, at that point, nobody was speaking to my aunt anymore, [laughs] including my grandparents. [Clears throat] Well Grandpa went first, but Grandma had stopped speaking to my aunt. So Mom inherited everything including their house. So, with the combined sales of the two houses, they bought the house that they're living in now. But they didn't want to officially move, it was my brother's senior year, they didn't want to disrupt his schooling because, even though it's like two towns over, it was a different school district. So they didn't move right away, but that was sort of in the works his senior year. I had– it was also my senior year of college, but that wouldn't have made a difference. I was either living in the dorms, from either house it was still commutable. So that wasn't really a factor in when they moved. [Clears throat].

Did you have a group of friends through this time, that you were hanging out with, you know, through middle school and high school?

Um, in– since elementary school, I've had one really good friend, who's sort of– continued to be my friend throughout. Um, there's another person who I wasn't terribly close with– like, I've also known since like first grade. We weren't terribly close, um, but, you know, we were friendly, and we got friendlier in high school, and then totally coincidentally, we wound up going to the same college, um, where we became even better friends. Whereas the one I've been friends with since first grade, went to some school, like, past Albany.

So were you in the same school district all the way through childhood?

Oh yeah, I was in the same house throughout my childhood, same school district.

What was your– what were your schools like? Was it a big district?

Um, in my district, there were five elementary schools, that were all K through six. One middle school, which was seventh and eighth. And then two high schools that were, um, uh, nine– freshman through seniors. And then one of the high schools took in students from another district that did not have their own high school. That was not the one I went to, that was the other one. Um, so it was like– in elementary school, you knew the kids in your elementary school. And then you met more people, in middle school, some of whom you would wind up going to high school with, some of whom you wouldn't. And depending on how close you got, you'd keep in touch or you wouldn't. These were the days before Facebook and cell phones and social media. So it was harder to keep in touch. Um. Um, it's funny, in middle school– of all the schools I went, of the three schools, middle school was the one where you'd see the most fights in the hallways. And I don't know why that is. The building was large enough that it– and seventh and eighth grade were each divided into three, they called them teams. So, in seventh grade, if you were in the red team, all of– everybody on the red team had all the same teachers for the same– for whatever subjects. You'd have homeroom and then you'd be with a different mix of students from your team for English and another mix, you know, depending on how scheduling worked out. But you didn't have classes with anybody on the green team. Um, red, green, and blue, I think. And then eighth grade was A, B, and C, and it was the same concept. High school was much more like you'd expect from a high school. You'd have homeroom, and then, you know, you'd have– depending on your level, you'd have um, you know, your English, your Math, your Science, whatever. [Clears throat] In New York, we have what is called the Regents Exams, I don’t think that's a thing in New Jersey. Um, so depending on your [clears throat], on your level of comprehension– grades– whatever, for certain subjects, you would either be in general, which means you would get a standard high school diploma, like any other state. Um, you could go for– you could be in the Regents classes, which would prepare you for the Regents Exam, and you would have a Regents diploma, which only makes a difference if you're applying for colleges in the state of New York. Or you could be in honors classes, which was basically going for the Regents diploma, but also having your grade weighted slightly when they calculated it at the end of the term. Which, the Regents part, again, only made sense in New York. But honors versus general is something that can translate to other states.

00:30:35

Um, and then of course, in junior, senior year, there were the AP classes, which are the college courses that could earn you credit depending on which college you went to. Um. So. And there, you know, again, that was based on– which classes you took was based on what your interests were, you know, there was a certain point where you could go for electives. You know, did you want to take the elective on Creative Writing or did you want to take an elective on Shakespeare. Or, you know, and it all depended on– there were some electives that were required, it was just how they fit into your schedule, like health class, which you had to take. I think we only had to take one half-year of it, maybe a full year. I don't remember. Um, you know, and health class is health class. As exciting as it sounds.

Did you participate in any extracurricular activities?

Drama club.

Drama club.

Yeah. I was a techie. I believe we've had that conversation a number of times, like when you asked me to act, and I'm like, “Didn't we discuss the techie thing [laughs]?”

[Microphone sounds] Just gonna look at the battery.

Yeah, I was a techie with the drama club, um. Basically I, um, so– I– In high school there was the stage crew, there was the lighting crew, which was the lightboard operator and two spotlights, and then there was the sound crew, which was, until my senior year, it was me, and my friend Susie. Susie would run the board and I'd be the one running back and forth trying to fix whichever microphone was having a problem, or change batteries, or whatever. Um, that was my sophomore, junior, and first production senior year– 'cause we would do two productions a year. Um, second production my senior year, one of the spotlight operators dropped out. [Clears throat] That happened to be my brother, so I felt partially guilty, and also at that point Susie had two trainees who were basically doing what I did because they needed to learn it. So for the fall show, I was kind of twiddling my thumbs. So by the spring show, I was like well, I feel kind of guilty because it's my brother who dropped out, and sound doesn't really need me, so I'll run the spotlight. Um, I did not do sports. I passed gym class by the skin of my teeth because I had a gym teacher who found me amusing. I turned badminton into, like, a full body sport. [Laughs] That's why she found me amusing. Um.

Did you take any theatre classes at your school?

They– oh, I'm sorry, there was one that they offered. And it wasn't performance based, it was just, like, studying what was on Broadway, and– that was when I taught myself how to use Excel in Microsoft Office because we had to chart attendance levels throughout the term. That was one of the electives actually. We had to chart attendance levels throughout the term for our own individual– every student in the class got to pick a show, and we would chart, like, attendance levels throughout– I don't remember if it was weekly or however often. Um [clears throat], I said wait, there's this thing on the computer that can do this. Um, so I taught myself how to use Excel. Um, I probably could have gotten help from my father if I had waited until the weekend but I'm like, no I want to figure it out now. And I'm also one of those people who will teach myself how to use technology by saying, hey what does this button do [laughs]. As long as it doesn't have a warning label on it, that's how I go. Um, [clears throat], so, you know, and other kids were sitting there with graph paper and drawing lines, and I was like, “Look what I did [laughs].” Um, so that was the one theatre class that was really offered. Because the same teacher who taught that theatre class also taught chorus, ran the drama club, did all the, you know. She was the director and the musical director and whatever for the shows. That's– she once said the only reason she did only musicals and not straight plays is because she didn't have enough talent as a director to do straight plays. Um, but where half the time they're singing, you know, she ran chorus, that's what she knew how to do.

00:35:32

So she had a decent amount on her plate. She also taught music theory, so she had a decent amount on her plate, so we only had the one theatre class. Um.

Were there any other teachers that you were particularly close with, at that time?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um, there were two English teachers– they happened to be the ones that– they both– every spring break, they would take juniors and seniors– not all of them, but some of them, on a trip to various parts of Europe. Um, different destination each year. My senior year, they went to Barcelona and London. So I went with them, because London is London. I didn't care at the time about Barcelona, though there were some cool things there. I was like, “When do we get to London, when do we get to London?” [Laughs].

What made you so, kind of interested in London?

I really don't have a good answer for that, it's just, that's where Shakespeare was from, and the history, and the fact that I speak that language. You know, I– something– there's just something about British history that intrigues me more than any other place in Europe. I mean, there's the part of me that, you know, because I'm Jewish, there's kind of like a calling to go to parts of Germany and that area, just to see that history, because it's part of my heritage. Um, but, with England, it's a passion and a desire and I love it. Whereas with Germany, it's like, I should do that, because I, you know, I lost– well I never knew them, it was 1945, but my family lost two great aunts, and at least one husband, and one of them had two sons in the concentration camps. The other four siblings made it out of Europe.

Your grandparents generation?

My great-grandparents– yeah, my great-grandparents actually. My great-grandparents. Um, yeah, both of my grandparents were born here. Sorry, all of my grandparents were born here. I– this is all on my mother's side, where we know much more of the genealogy. But yeah, no, all of my grandparents were born here. This was my great grandmother on my mother’s– mother’s side. She had five siblings all together. She and two of her brothers made it to America, another brother made it to Israel, and then the two sisters died in the camps. Um, which is why current events lately are a little bit frightening for me. Because I'm a transgender, bisexual Jew. Uh, the neo-Nazis and the white supremacists? I'm not on the top of their favorites list [laughs], you know. I think we– as in we rational people, have a slight advantage over, uh, Nazi Germany, in the fact that even though our President hasn't firmly condemned the white supremacists, under whatever name they're going by, he's also not really leading them? So they don't have that governmental power. And I'm hoping it stays that way. Knock on wood. [clears throat] But you know, after Charlottesville, I was– I was a mess for like a week. I mean, I have depression and anxiety issues to begin with, and that just triggered something in me, and I– I barely functioned for like three days. Because the day it happened I was at a friend's housewarming party. And we got a little bit of news from her brother, from what he was reading on his phone, and none of it was really clear as to what happened. And then I went to a benefit concert at Roxy & Dukes, where even if anybody was trying to pay attention to the news, you couldn't hear anything, because it was a rock concert in a really small venue.

00:40:21

I don't know if you're familiar with Roxy & Dukes, but it's a little bar up in Dunellen that has a stage, and they have all sorts of different shows. This was a benefit for the family of an acquaintance of mine, who had been in a car accident, so, you know, his wife and two daughters kind of still need money to survive and he's currently, after two and a half or three years now, in no condition to provide it from the nursing home, in his coma-like state. Yeah, so. We do– another mutual friend coordinates a benefit show every year. But anyway, so, you know, nobody was talking about the news. After all I did Saturday, Sunday I slept until like five o'clock in the afternoon. And then, woke up, and I started reading Facebook, and I started– pieces all started falling into place, and I'm like, alright, I'm going to keep as much emotional detachment as I can, you know, to keep myself– and then I saw the one picture of the guys with the Tiki torches in one hand, doing the Nazi salute with the other, and that's when I lost it. Um, and then, you know, I got back to my–I mean, as I said, I have depression, I'm not good, but I'm back to my normal. [Laughs] And I have gotten way off track from being transgender.

No–

I go off on tangents, it happens.

And I would say, just to free you from that, there's no– it doesn't have to be on the transgender track, you know?

Okay.

I'm more interested in your life as a whole.

Okay.

So whatever stories or things that you think are interesting for you to talk about. The thing I was going to ask you, is we talked about high school a little bit, and then you went to college?

Yes.

And how was that experience for you?

Um, I loved it. What's funny is, I applied to, you know, a number of different schools as most people do. Most within commuting distance of my parents, one in Massachusetts within a decent drive of my cousins, so that if I felt a need for family, I could go to my cousins. Um, um, and Manhattanville College, was what my mother called my "safety backup school." Um, and, you know, I looked at Skidmore, I looked at Vassar, all these schools around, you know, the mid to lower Hudson Valley. The only one I was not accepted into, was Vassar, [clears throat] and, as my mother pointed out on the tour we went on, there were all the girls with their um, you know, straight blonde hair, except for the one Asian girl who had her straight dark hair, and then me with this little blob of pink on my head [laughs], so it didn't really seem like I would fit in there. [clears throat] Um, you know, I applied to NYU, all these different places. And, you know, my mother’s like, “Why bother going on a tour of Manhattanville, it's your backup?” I'm like, “Let's just go on the tour.” And we went on the tour, and I looked at my mother and I said, “This is where I'm going [laughs]. I don't care if you call it– this is where I'm going.” I was accepted, um, I'm not sure if we knew that at the time of the tour or not, I don't remember the timeline exactly, but I was accepted. I was given a scholarship. Well, standard running joke of Manhattanville College is, if you're there, you have a scholarship [laughs]. Uh, and every scholarship they gave out was academic. There were no sports scholarships, um. I mean, there was some grants and whatever, if you applied to outside programs, but a scholarship from Manhattanville was academic. We were not a terrible sports oriented school, I mean, there was, um– We did ice hockey, men's and women's. Softball, baseball, I think volleyball. We did not have a football team, period. Not, you know, a bad one, not a mediocre one, we did not have one. You wanted to play football, it was just for fun, on the quad with, you know, your friends. Um.

00:45:11

What was it about the school that appealed to you so much?

It just– I set foot on that campus and it just clicked. At the time, I was n– my senior year of high school, I suffered from a really bad case of senioritis. Um, by the time I graduated, I'm looking at my parents like, I don't want to go to college. I want to go to trade school, I want to learn how to work on cars, or be a carpenter, I don't want to go to college and learn this random stuff and– so it was an argument that we had been having all along. And then I– I– so I'm looking at these other schools, and I'm like this one's nice, this one's nice, we looked at Bard, um, I may have been influenced by the fact that it was a nasty rainy day, but I looked at Bard and said, “Definitely not.” Um, although I have a friend who went there and loved it, and now he teaches summer programs there, uh, you know.

I noticed some of the colleges you mentioned, Vassar, Skidmore, Bard, which are all, forgive me if I'm wrong, women's colleges, the women's campuses or colleges within other universities. Were you specifically looking for a women's college?

No, and by the time I was looking, they were all co-ed. Um, they may have all had histories, and most of them may have has a majority still of female students, but they were all officially co-ed when I was looking. In fact, Manhattanville, where I did go, was, once upon a time, an all-girls Catholic school. You know, where this nice little Jew was looking. Like I said, by the time I started looking, they were secular and co-ed. But it's greatest claim to fame is that the Kennedy women went there. Not all of them, but uh, Rose, and at least two of the daughters went there. Possibly a third daughter. Obviously not Rosemary, she was the one with the lobotomy, but, you know. There were several others. Um, so, that was their big "claim to fame."

What kinds of things did you participate in– in college? Were you working in theatre again?

Um, my freshman year I was mostly just attending classes and trying to get my feel for things. Uh, freshman year I did not go in with a decided major and minor. Manhattanville's policy was, you had to have a major and a minor, unless you were doing a double major, because they figured at that point, you had enough on your plate, you didn't need the minor. Although I did have one friend who was crazy, overachiever, I don't know what you want to call him, but he had a double major, and a double minor. [Clears throat] Yeah, exactly. I wish this could record that face you just made. Um, but, you know, I went in undeclared. By the end of my first year, I was like, can I just graduate as a “Liberal Arts major,” is that a possibility? Um, [clears throat] by the end of sophomore and into my junior year, I decided I was going to do a computer major, um, with a math minor. Because everything required for a math minor, save two electives, were required for the computer science major. So I'm like, it's a gimme, I just take two extra electives. Needless to say, my father was ecstatic [laughs].

00:49:04

Um, by the end of my junior year, just as the semester was ending, I said, I don't want to do this, I want to go into business management. Because I had had this idea, um, at some point within my junior year I had this idea that I was going to open and run like a bar restaurant with a stage area, with a hotel, and I could picture it in my mind. Like on the outside, it would have this old fashioned-y stone look, and the inside would be a lot of wood and– and, you know, kind of– This was my huge idea. So I decided I was going to be a manage– a business major. I'm sorry, a management major. And I was going to do a design and technical theatre minor. Because starting my sophomore year, I was getting involved in technical theatre. Where unlike, you know, high school, there were the three different groups of techies, um, in college, it was much more blended. Especially because everybody in the dance theatre department– uh, musical theatre was a, uh, crossover with the dance department and the music department. The dance theater was its own department, and every actor and dancer was required to take one stagecraft class, one lighting class, and, within their four years, work backstage on– I think they had to work on three shows within four years. Um, and considering there were three shows in the fall, and three shows in the spring, they had plenty of opportunity to get that in, you know, within four years. They had [counting quietly] four– six times, I don't know. Six times, four opportunities, to do three. [clears throat] Um, but I– I wasn't a performer, I can't dance to save my life, I have no rhythm whatsoever [clears throat], my only acting experience has been with you, and it was a staged reading, which is good, because, again, bad memory. Memorizing lines just wasn't going to happen and even– I was watching the other people on stage with me, like, getting into character, and I was like, [quietly] “I'm just going to read my part here and, um, [clears throat].” So I was a techie. I did stage crew on a number of shows. I did– I ran a lightboard, I ran a spotlight, I ran the soundboard, I, um, built sets, I painted sets, [clears throat]. I was taking every stage craft, costuming, lighting class that I could. Um, and, um, like my junior year– there was– it was the spring of my junior year. So in the fall, they always offered Lighting I and Stagecraft I. In the spring, every year, they alternated between Stagecraft II and Lighting II. So my junior year, I audited Lighting II, because it was a two hour– it was like two or three– I think it was like a three hour block in one day, and the first half of it conflicted with a course that was required for my management major. And at this point– No. It conflicted with something, because I hadn't changed my major yet–

00:53:10

I don't know, I don't remember. Um, and the thing was, there was no design and technical theatre major or minor officially. This was a self-designed thing that I worked out with the technical director. Um, so I audited Lighting II, and it was great, and, you know, all the acting majors and the dance majors had to do thesis projects where they created a performance. Junior and senior year, I was asked to design the lights for a total of five shows? I think? There was Charles's thesis [lists under his breath]– there was that stupid thing. One was a staged reading, she wanted lights, and I was like, “They're not doing anything [laughs].” Okay, maybe only four. Which is funny, like, one of them was junior year, no problem. Two of them had asked me senior year, and I'm like, “Okay, like, I can handle two of these.” And then one of the dance majors asked me to do light for her dance thesis. Now, first of all, I had loved the piece she had done as her junior thesis, which was in the dance studio. It didn't have any lights, but I just– she, her junior year, she did this thing about the seven deadly sins, and, amazing choreographer, I love modern dance, and it was fantastic. So she asked me to do the lighting for her senior thesis, and I'm like, you know, in the back of my head is trying to be rational saying, “You can't take on another project,” and then, in the forefront of my mind is, oh but it's Laura and her stuff is fun, and also at the same time, cute girl is asking you to do something [laughs]. Um, [clears throat], the two in the forefront won over the rational [clears throat]. Um, kind of to the detriment of the staged reading. Um, 'cause, one of the other– so there was the staged reading, the dance piece, and then a movement based commentary on society. So that was very– [beeps] That's my pill reminder, excuse me.

Great, why don't we take a little, like a five minute break.

Okay.

00:55:53

[First clip ends]

00:00:00

Great, um, so, uh, you were talking a bit about college–

Yes.

And about getting a lot out of your college experience.

Right, um, right, so I was doing the lighting for the three thesis projects, um, the staged reading kind of suffered for it. She was doing a staged reading of, um, The Great Divorce, um, so like, every time one of the spirits came out, she wanted the lights to brighten. I'm like, “That's it? Really?” Um, and then, my senior year, based on my plan for the, the minor, um, I had to take Lighting II again, for real, for credit. Except there were a handful of dancers who managed to not take Lighting I and needed it to graduate, and Steve couldn't teach both in the same semester because timing, you know, he could only do so much at once. He was the technical director for all of the shows, plus teaching stagecraft, and lighting, and whatever. Um, [clears throat] so, he taught that. He decided, he's like, ‘You don't have to sit in on the courses, just come in–” After every production, the stagecraft and the lighting classes would then write a paper and discuss the technical aspects of whatever the production had been. He's like, “Alright, you don't have to sit through the classes and go over what I already know you know, just come in on the days we're discussing the shows. And then, you know, we'll work out a thing.” So what we had worked out was, there were a handful of broken lights that I was going to repair. Which because of timing, and the fact that I didn't have direct access to where they were, without finding direct access to someone else with a key, never really happened.

But what did happen was, as the lighting class was reaching their final project, which was to design lights for a show, I wound up meeting with almost all of them in the library– like together we had a group thing, helping them figure out what to do, offering suggestions, offering tips based on my own experience. Like not doing the project, but basically tutoring them as they worked on the project. Um, so Steve gave me credit for that instead. He's like, “You still did something useful, it shows you have the knowledge, there you go [laughs].” Um, I did have to take– I will– I chose at one point, going through electives– Steve was teaching a summer course on improv for actors. And I said, you know what, I work at the Ren Fair [Renaissance Fair], being able to improv a little bit– I mean, I was working for a vendor, but still, you know, being able to improv a little bit might be helpful. So I signed up for that course [clears throat]. Which, um, this was before we decided on my minor, and Steve's like, “Well, I was going to say you'd have to take acting, but you did that, so we'll count it instead.” Um, that was an interesting course [laughs].

There was one day– like I got the basic concept of how improv worked, but there was one day Steve was trying– my character was supposed to be this very unhappy, broken down, you know, person, and Steve was tr– like I wasn't really getting into character very well, and Steve was trying to help me get into character, and I wound up actually breaking down, and I'm like, I started crying for real, and I'm like, “Steve, I need a cigarette,” and then we came back—he was also a smoker, so he understood—I'm like, “I need a cigarette, somebody else is going to do the scene, I'm done for the day,” and he came out with me for the cigarette, and he's like, “I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to do that [laughs].” Um, one of the things we always said about Steve was he was not a nice person. He was a good person, he was fair, um, if you were legitimately having a problem, he always knew the right thing to say, but he wasn't going to treat you nicely, just to be nice to you. So when he actually apologized to me, for breaking me down like that, that was sincere, that– that was not what he intended to do.

What was the scene about?

Oh god. Um. It was a husband and wife in a bad marriage, I think borderline abusive, um, it was breakfast time, I don't– that's about all I remember. 'Cause basically, we were given these little booklets about, you know, these are the characters, this is their background, you're going to work with this. Okay.

00:05:10

You talked a little bit about uh, doing um, the one choreographer's project–

[Laughs].

The cute girl. So, were you dating at this time?

[Laughs] No. Her, or anybody?

In general.

Uh, I was not. Um. And whether or not– I was already out as bi at this point, but whether or not she really knew that, 'cause we weren't totally close, I don't know. Um, she, as far as I know, was heterosexual and had a boyfriend. Even if she wasn't fully heterosexual, she was still in a relationship. So, I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere, but I get easily swayed by cute.

You had mentioned earlier in the interview, that it was somewhere around sophomore year or so, in high school or college?

That I came out?

That you came out as bisexual.

As bi. That was sophomore year of college.

Of college.

Yes.

And how were you, what was that process or journey like for you? Were you out publicly, was it just friends and family?

Um, well, first I came out to my roommate. And, bear in mind, I had female roommates at this point. I came out to my roommate because I was going to start attending meetings of the Gay-Straight Coalition, which was the campus's, you know, Gay-Straight Coalition [laughs]. Um, and she was a member, so I was like, “Look, I want to tell you this before you hear it in the group.” And she's like, “Well you know whatever's said in group is pri– in that group is private.” I'm like, “I understand that, but you’re my roommate, and you're my friend, and I respect you, so I figured I'd tell you.” Um, so she knew. I came out in the group and then I started coming out to my friends. Um, on National Coming Out Day that year was when I was up at my parents having dinner and told them. Which again, the whole, "We thought you were a lesbian response," at which point I yelled at my mother. Because for a number of years she kept trying to play matchmaker between me and this other kid from temple, who wanted to be a Rabbi when he grew up and, of course, he was a few years older than me, and I finally consented to let her talk to him. At which point he's like, “But she's just a kid.” Which I had no problem with, it finally got my mother off my back. And I looked at her, when she said she thought I was a lesbian, and I said, “If you thought I was a lesbian, why were you trying to set me up with Peter so desperately?”

Did she ever respond?

Well, since I hadn't come out yet she was going to let me come out in my own time, and whatever. And I looked at her, and I said, “You know, the reason I've been hesitant to tell you guys that I was bi–” 'cause I knew they'd be accepting– and I looked my mother right in the eye, and said, ‘The reason I've been hesitant, is because of your overwhelming need to try to play matchmaker. Now that you know this–” because of course, this would double her options for, you know, playing matchmaker. And I looked her in the eye, and I'm like, ‘Now that you know this, I need you to swear to me that you will stop.” And she agreed. And we have been good since then.

00:08:29

I will occasionally get questions about, you know, you seem to be spending an awful lot of time with so-and-so? But that, you know, that's the extent of it. [Clears throat]. Um, so, yeah.

So your– your time in college, it sounds like your schedule was a bit crazy.

My schedule was crazy but overall, I– I loved my college experience. Couple of classes I wasn't fond of, but, um, you know, like Statistics.

But you walked away with your friendships–

Oh yeah. I'm still friends with, um, not everybody that I was friends with then, but, um, a lot of them. Um, and actually– in fact quite recently I was feeling nostalgic one day and went through Facebook looking for a lot of former friends from college and high school. Um, now mind you, most of these people, because I came out as trans at thirty-three and changed my name at thirty-four, thirty-five, [clears throat] did not know that I was transgender. Um, given my name change was from Jamie to James, you know, people would see the name and know who I am. But they would also see the name change and know who I am. And what was amazing to me was the number of people who accepted the requests. Now, I don't know exactly how many requests I sent out– not all of them were accepted, um, and some of that may have just been, you know, I haven't spoken to this person in like– I graduated high school seventeen years ago. So some of them may have been like, I haven't spoken to this person in seventeen years, why would I want to be friends with them now? You know. And some of it may have been judgmental. Some of it– occasionally I'll still get so-and-so has accepted your request like a month and a half later. So some of it is like, these people just don't check Facebook that often. You know, and whatever, but, you know, I had made a post about, you know, gee thanks Facebook for, you know, letting me know that so-and-so's now connected to me on Messenger. Because I was complaining about the fact that it made real conversations harder to find when you've, you know, friended fifty new people. I thought fifty was an exaggeration. And then like, two days later, I went, you know you can see your friends– recent friends. I had seventy-eight recent friends. Now I can't keep going back and checking because, you know, they're no longer recent friends under, you know. But like, seventy-eight, in the first week. So you know.

Did you create a new Facebook profile? Is that what prompted this?

No, I– I– I just decided, you know, 'cause I had my friends on Facebook, who are mostly people I'm friends with now, um, uh, when I did my legal name change, I changed my name on Facebook, but it was the same profile. Um, but I just went through and said, you know, I'm a member of the alumni group, um, I'm a member of the drama club alumni group. Um, so I started going through the alumni group, which was interesting because it was– it's alumni from nineteen-sixty-something, like the first graduating class of Lakeland, to current. So finding the ones I knew took some time. But I went from there, you know, I started there, I started with the drama club, and then I said, oh, well so-and-so was friends with these people, let me see if I can find friend suggestions, and whatnot. You know, I just kept going through this tree of finding people. Um, college was a little bit harder because there is, we don't have a group on Facebook, or a page on Facebook, so it was like– start with like the one I'm friends with and then just like, search by name after that. Um, and– so you know, the– like seventy-eight people accepted my request in like, the first three days. Um, and there were a handful of people who sent me messages like, [laughs], the first message I got was, "It took me a second to put two and two together, but you are awesome." [Laughs].

Was that from someone you knew well?

Um, no actually. It's funny, it's somebody who was a year behind me in high school [clears throat]. We had not been close by any stretch of the imagination, um, in fact, there was a lot I did not know about her, like, you know, we always kind of thought she was a bit of a snob. But as it turns out, she– it was kind of an image she was projecting, masking some pretty major mental health issues.

00:13:28

Um, but and– so we had a conversation going back and forth, and, you know, I realized she was not the person I thought she was back then, and, you know, whatever. Um, uh, one of my former English teachers, that I found—one of the two who did the Europe trips—um, sent me a private message and said, “You know, this requires a more in depth conversation at some point, but go you, you are amazing.” And then she was– she's like, “So, can I still call you Jamie, or do you prefer the more formal James?” I'm like, “Well you can call me– like, I don't want to be called Jamie anymore, but you can call me Jim or Jimmy?” She's like, “Jimmy it is then!”

[Laughs].

I'm like, “Okay [laughs]!” I had another friend who's been my friend for several years now who's not part of this new group. Who– we were talking on Facebook at one point, about something else, and he says randomly, “Oh by the way, can I call you Jimmy?” “Sure? This has nothing to do with our other conversation, but okay?”

You had mentioned previously when you were a little kid, having this moment at the hairdresser, with your mom and the hairdresser, and you saying something and your mom saying, you know, be careful how you say things–

Right.

Um, what you say. And I was just curious if you had– and then this moment when you're a sophomore in college, in which you're kind of, would you say that was the first coming out moment you had? Were there any moments prior to that? Were there any moments throughout it when questions started developing, or you're like, maybe there's something, there's another part of me that isn't being expressed, or? Do you remember when that questioning started?

Um, okay, so The Little Mermaid– I was born in ‘82, The Little Mermaid came out in I think, ‘83, or so?

Something like that.

Okay, so when I first saw The Little Mermaid, I had a crush on Ariel [laughs]. My first female crush and the redhead thing has kind of stuck around, forever [laughs]. Not that I don't find people with other hair colors attractive, but the redhead thing is definitely there.

We're all allowed our preferences.

Yes. But, you know, a brunette could steal my heart, you never know. Or a blonde. But Ariel was my first female crush. Um, but, uh, you know, at the time, you know, so alright. I was one when the movie came out, which probably means I didn't see it for another couple of years, but at the time, like, I don't think I even grasped the concept of what a crush really was, it's only in hindsight I can say it was my first female crush. Um, but at the same time, growing up I realized I liked boys, you know, I had a crush on the next door neighbor. Um, until he moved away and we didn't see him anymore and I, you know, moved on. Um [clears throat]. What's really funny is the girl I was just talking about, who you know, "it took me a minute to put two and two together," she was a year behind me in high school. Um, her older brother was two years ahead of me, and in high school I had a crush on him. In my conversations with her that never came up. [Laughs] 'Cause I couldn't imagine how awkward that might be. Uh, but, you know, I don't. I don't remember really questioning it. It's just, alright, I find boys attractive, I find girls attractive. I don't– I didn’t necessarily have the word “bisexual” in my vocabulary. Like, I understood there were men who were gay, which meant they liked other men, and there were women who were lesbian, which meant they liked other lesbians– like, I got hetero and homosexual. But like, bisexual, just like transgender, wasn't really part of my vocabulary.

When did transgender become part of your vocabulary?

Transgender became part of my vocabulary probably in my early thirties? And since I'm 35, we're talking not that long ago. But bisexual came into my vocabulary, with– towards the end of high school, I think. You know, I started to get, you know, the word for it, I just wasn't ready to come out.

00:18:05

Um, in large part, especially because of mom's tendency to play matchmaker. And the fact that I didn’t like, you know, there's like one openly gay kid in high school and he's a year ahead of me, so b– and I'm like, well he's gay, and I'm a girl, so that's not going to work anyway. You know, I didn't know of any girls who liked girls, I had a very awkward social life and, you know, I wasn't dating anybody. I am 35 years old, I've had one relationship, it lasted six months. And I was 23 at the time. [Takes breath]. I was talking to a friend the other day who is– she just turned 26, we were together 'cause I was taking her out for her birthday and, you know, I was asking her questions about her boyfriend or whatever, and she asked me, you know, if I was seeing anybody and I told her that. And she just kind of looked at me like I had four heads because, you know, she's 26, and she's had a couple of relationships, and I'm 35 and I've had one. So, I'm like, “Don’t judge.” [Phone rings] That's the Center's phone.

Great, as long as it's not us.

Yeah, no, they have an answering machine, no one's supposed to be here. [Phone rings] I'm just making sure I don't have any missed calls from Vicky. Nope, we're good. Well, she knows we're here.

So that's been like, a conversation topic for you recently? Do you– I mean, do you think that's just a result of, you know, life, and you just haven't met the right person, or you’re on kind of your own journey now–

For– well, for a long time, yes, I just hadn't– it's awkward. I don't approach people, I wait for them to approach me, and 'cause I suffer from social awkwardness. Now a lot of it is, you know, I'm not in a place where I feel ready to put myself out there. Because what you see when I'm fully clothed is not what you're gonna see when we get into the bedroom. Um, and I don't necessarily know that I need to have, you know, everything done before I put myself out there. But at least having top surgery would go a long way to helping. Um, and thanks to being on disability, and therefore Medicare, top surgery not really happening soon. Um, and that's the biggest thing that's driving me crazy. You know, I like to go to the beach and, you know, I wear swim trunks, and I still have to wear the binder, and I have to wear like, a rash guard surfer thing over it to hide the fact that it's a binder, which is, you know, I have a ridiculous tan line from going to the beach. Which, you know, a farmers tan is great, if you work outdoors. If you're spending your day on the beach, it's weird. So, you know, that's the big thing I want. I want to get the top surgery done. I want to get the hysterectomy done. Um, and then go from there. Especially given the costs of these things. By the time I am ready for bottom surgery, you know, by the time that is financially an option, by the time everything else is done– because obviously you have to have a hysterectomy first– by the time I'm ready for that, who knows what the options will be by then. Like, I know what the options are now, and they're eh, you know, I'm leaning more towards one, than another. But, you know, however– between having one surgery, and going through the healing process, and then waiting for the money, and having the next surgery, and going through the healing process, and waiting for money, and you know, looking at the bottom surgery, and consultations, whatever. You know, by then, I mean, they're already starting to do penile transplants for cancer patients, um, soldiers who have had horrific injuries. So who knows what they might be able to do for me? You know, they're starting to talk about putting uteruses in trans wome, so, if they can do that, who knows what they'll be able to do for me, by the time I'm ready for it.

00:22:57

Um, you know, um, obviously, with the mental health issues, I've been in therapy, and at one point a therapist– well at several points, therapists have looked at me and said, “Well what do you want to do with your life, once you get– once we get you to a point where you can live your life without nec– without having to be on disability, and you can, you know.” And I finally realized that what I want to do is be a stay-at-home dad [clears throat]. Um, and you know. So first, there's finding a partner who's amenable to being the breadwinner. Um, and then there's, you know, figuring out how to have the kid. Um, I am bisexual, but I always see my future as settling down with a woman. Um, but with whatever options exist currently, even if I have all the surgeries, all the procedures, whatever, that exist now, I would not be able to get a woman pregnant. So, you know– so there's figuring that out, and is she okay with being the breadwinner, and this and that. Right now, I'm Uncle James to, uh, quite a few children who are not actually related to me: my friend's kids and things like that. Um.

How about your family? How's your relationship with your immediate family now?

Uh [sighs], mmm. Tense. Because of finances. Um, my parents are looking to move again and downsize the home they're in and, um, we got into an argument over a couch and a piano that I wanted. And they're like, the couch is trash, we're going to throw it away. And I was like l– l– and I saw a post where they're giving away the piano. Now, if they needed to sell either of these things, because they needed money, I would have understood, but they were throwing one out, and giving one away, and I'm like, I want them. No. So that led to um, yelling, screaming, and not talking for a few months. And within that time period of not speaking, Mother's Day came and went. And I made a– I admit that, yes, I made a decision and, um, I did not call or message my mother, because I did not think that she wanted to hear from me. Um, the same day happened to be my then-roommates’ wedding, um, to each other. And so I was posting pictures on Facebook about, you know, I'm looking spiffy in the bowtie, and whatever. Um, so Mother's Day is always on a Sunday. Monday night, I got this scathing message from my brother. Um, who was ranting about, you know, how if I'm going to act like this, I'll never be a man, not about a transitioning thing but an age thing, you're acting like a child, you'll be a boy, not a man. [Clears throat] Um, uh, and, you know, uh, seeing Mom's reaction to not hearing from me. And I said to him, I'm like, “I felt like she wouldn't want to hear from me.” And he's like, “You made a decision.” I'm like, “I'm not denying that, I'm saying this is why I made that decision. Now I know what you're telling me, I know it was the wrong decision,” and he said he was done with me. Um. So, June 2nd happens to be my parent's anniversary.