Lenwood Smith
Cranbury native Lenwood Smith details his time in New York City during the late ‘70s and early ‘80s. He discusses the many jobs that he has had and the struggles of keeping employment.
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More: “NJCASA Applauds Updates to New Jersey’s Sexual Violence Response Procedures,” NJCASA, November 27, 2018.
Learn More [2]: “Meeting the Housing Needs of People With Substance Use Disorders,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, May 1, 2019.
Learn More [2]: “Undocumented Residents Pay $587 Million a Year in NJ Taxes,” New Jersey Policy Perspective, March 2, 2017.
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Joe Amditis
Interview conducted in 2018
Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn
Annotations by Brandon McKoy
00:00:00
[inaudible] I had– Turk-a-Roni. It’s like Beef-a-Roni but it’s ground turkey.
There you go.
That’s what I had.
Alright, so when he comes back down–
Uh-huh.
We’ll start, we’ll, we’ll start recording in a minute. Thanks so much.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. So, we might as well start rolling now–
Okay.
You can shut that off whenever you want– [cut off, spoken over]
Okay. And ya, and ya, and ya know I’m crazy, you know I’m gonna talk about compensation [laughs]. So they can hear it. Come on now.
I don’t, I don’t blame you, you talk about whatever you want.
You dag-go Skippy. [laughs] They gettin’ all this information stuff and I ain’t gettin’ reimbursed for shit, are you serious?
[Laughs] Oh God.
And I’ma say it, too, can you hear me now?
Yes.
[Laughs] Okay.
So, let’s just start by– why don’t you just tell me your name.
My name is Lenwood Smith. I’m the youngest outta ten. I was born 1958. I’m 61 now. I was born in St. Peter’s Hospital in New Brunswick and I was raised in Cranbury, New Jersey. Which is a good town. I mean, I grew up with– with a lot– it was just like black and white. You know, you had a couple Italians, coupla a– but, how it is now it’s like– Crazy. I’m not prejudiced or anything but– I see the difference. In cultures and everything. But um–
Could you, um, tell me about what it was like in, um, elementary school or as a kid. Tell me about that.
Oh, elementary school was cool. I was like the class clown, you know. Everybody, you know, um– They were, they were good kids. Yeah. I grew up with, um. Doin’ the square dance and doin’ the Christmas Carols and skatin’ on the lake and all that type of thing. It was a good, uh, uh, nice up-bringing. It really was in the suburbs of Cranbury. Mm-hmm.
You said how many siblings did you have?
Uh, nine others.
Wow!
Yeah.
What was that like?
I mean. Uh. Um. My father was married before and he had outside kids, and my mom was married once so. It’s like a blended family. And I was the youngest, um. I grew up with mostly all women. My father, he was– he used to work all the time. And my mom, my aunt, my three sisters, um. I know about the women folk. Uh– Yeah. But life’s been pretty good so far. I mean, you have your ups and downs.
You grew up in Cran– Cranbury?
Yeah.
Did you all, did you and your siblings go to the same school?
Yeah. Yeah, they were a few grades ahead of me. Yeah, I went to grammar school in, uh, Cranbury. And went to Hightstown High School in the next town over. Graduated in 1977. I was supposed to graduate in ‘76 but, uh, stuff happened.
00:03:05
Were you a– an outdoor or an indoor kid?
Both. I mean, a– you, you know, I was inside, you know, cleanin’ up then I’d go outside and do the gardening. Or whatever. So inside and outside. You have to shovel the snow and burn the leaves and all that stuff. ‘Cause back then you’d use to burn leaves and stuff. You know what I mean?
[Unclear]
Yeah! Yeah, you just rake the leaves up come fall, you put it out and just burn it. Yeah! Used to burn the trash too back in the day. I’m talkin’ like the sixties. Like the sixties and the seventies. Yeah!
[Unclear]
Total different time– before your time!
Yeah, yeah sure.
Yeah!
You can’t get away with that now, that’s for sure.
Oh, heck no! Mm-hmm.
[Laughs] No, you can’t get away with a lot of things now. Yeah but, uh. There’s some good years.
So walk me through, walk me through–tell me about your siblings. Tell me, uh, about the ones you were closest to, tell me about the ones you were–
Well, I got one sister, her name was Sharon. Me and her were, oh– Like, my mom’s light sk– like, in black families, you got your, your light ones and your dark ones, you know. But we still love one another, but it’s just like white people with different hair colors. You know. Somebody can have a blonde, and somebody can, you know, have brown hair. Same thing but like with the skin. But my favorite sister is Sharon. She’s, she’s a hoot. Me and her are like, like our dad. We like plantin’ things like gardenin’ and tell jokes and– You know. Like to look presentable like our dad.
So Sharon is–
Yeah–
Older or younger than you?
Oh, didn’t I say I was the youngest?
You are the youngest!
Yeah! [laughs] Yeah!
[Unclear]
Yeah, yeah. And ma, my oldest sister, she pass a couple of months ago. I think she was 84? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I got siblings that are old enough to be my parents. And I got great, great nieces. I never even see them. Don’t know, don’t know who they are. That’s crazy.
So, tell me a little bit about your parents.
Oh, my parents– I thought they did the best they could. My father used to work for Middlesex County Roads Department. My mom used to work for the Chronicle– they’re a hospital. She was a cook there. And, I guess my father was a li– he used to drive the trucks like, when the snow’s plowed? Uh. Plow the truck. I mean, plow the snow.
[Rustling, unclear]
2 o’clock. Yeah! [laughs]
So what do you, so, so how did you get from, tell me, how did you get from Cranburg– uh– Cranberry– Cran, Cran–
Cranbury.
Cranberry.
It’s not -berry it’s -bury.
Cranbury.
Yeah, yeah, uh-huh. It’s like “Lynn” and “Len.” Yeah.
How did you– tell– tell me about living in Cranbury and then tell me about, where, where did you, where did you move out to after that?
Oh, livin’ in Cr– oh, around about sixteen– You know, I got curious ‘cause I’m gay. I mean, I was molested when I was six years old. It was traumatic and stuff. If I learned how to deal with it and everything, it went on until I was like, thirteen? Whatever. But, you know. I don’t dwell on it. It happened. I’m over it. But when I was, um, like, fifteen, my mom, uh, the church group had um– What do you call it– a retreat to go to see a play in New York. And we had like, two hours by ourself. So I was curious and knew there was a gay burlesque place there. So I went there. And I was like, “That’s what I want–” It was like freedom! So I kept goin’ back every, like, friggin’ weekend! And, and then– That’s when I start goin’ to New York, goin’ to clubs. Oh, back in the day, oh it was great! Oh my God. There was a lot of drugs involved. But it was like Fantasy Land! It really was. Bein’ a small town from Cranbury out there and goin’ to be big city and bein’ around the gents that, you know. It was an accomplishment. I met a lot of nice friends and stuff and good people. That’s how I learned there’s a whole lot, whole lot of different people on this planet. A whole lot. I mean. Everybody’s suspect to me. I mean, really. Mm-hmm.
00:07:24
What do you mean? Go on.
With everything! With a lot of things. In, like, general, you now. People are liars, they’re creeps, I mean. You know. People are just people. Things happen.
What was so different– I know this seems like an obvious question– but what was so different about going to these shows, going to the clubs to anything you’d seen in Cranbury?
Growin’ up–- oh! Cranbury– oh my God!
What was Cranbury like? Tell me. I, I didn’t–
Cranbury’s a nice little historical town– [unclear] with a lot of antique stores and stuff, you know. Well kept, uh, yards and everything. Houses. It was just a small little town. Um. Well, we had a bank, a post office. A Teddy’s Luncheonette. Cumberland Farms. Uh. The, the books. The, the Bookworm. Uh. Yeah. The TV repair shop. I mean, that town went through it’s, uh, transition too. I mean from like the sixties to the seventies, eighties, everything transformed. Just like it is now. I mean, now it’s, like, unbelievable. Uh. With, with, with the new construction they have. All the big new fabulous houses and everything.
Was it, was it more of a manufacturing town or what was the main [sharp slapping sound, Joe unclear] I’m sure–
Uh– Farmland. Yeah. They had, like, the Lowes farm. They had a lot of apple camps and, um. Where they had a lot of apple orchards, pear orchards, you know. A lot of that.
So, we had– So, this is this small town, almost like rural–
Yeah, like Mayberry, RFJ.
Yeah.
Like that. Yeah.
00:08:59
And then it was– It– completely different from the–
From the big city, oh my God. Oh yeah. But I–
What was it like going from that, I mean, had you experienced anything like that before? No.
Walk me through that. Just like a whole new world sort of coming into.
A whole– I mean, especially being gay too. I mean, it just– seeing different people like myself, and people that you never expect. I mean, like, big bodybuilders. I mean, it was, like, amazing! So I, so I really felt– I’m not alone anymore! It was like the release! You know what I mean? And I kept going back more and more and more– But the clubs, it was like Fantasy Land. I mean. Especially the music back then. They talked about a lot of positive things, not like they have now. ‘Cause this rap shit is disgusting. But it really is. But back then, there was a lot of drugs. Did I mention that? [unclear] We used to do a lot of acid. Like all purple like. And that opened up your friggin’ mind and that music and the lights and the– oh, the bubbles, and the– it was excellent! It was a great friggin’ experience. I’m glad I went through it. ‘Cause sometimes when I get depressed or– I just turn right back to nineteen-seventy-something and I’m good! Yeah.
People– I, I mean, I’ve done it as well–
Yeah–
One thing I used to sit and think about when I stopped doing it was when I stopped learning things from it–
Mm-hmm–
But I felt like I didn’t need to have anything else to teach me.
When you stopped doing what?
Acid.
Oh! Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh.
Once I, one it didn’t teach me anything else I was like–
Oh yeah! Oh yeah! But you have to have a strong mind to– to deal with that because somethings you– It– Oh my God.
So you’re coming from, so you come from this– So you come from this small town–
Yeah–
You’re only– so no one else in your, in your family is gay.
No. Not that I know of, no. No, not that I know of. I don’t care! May– maybe a couple of nephews, but I don’t care! I mean, did they know? Well, I didn’t tell until I was like twenty-somethin’, whatever. Yeah. Back then it was totally different! It was, it was horrible! See, how it happened, I think I was like six, seven years old. And, and this guy, he had a TV repair shop. But wanted some apprentices, uh, uh, told me to come in ‘n go in the back room, help him pick up some TVs. So I went in the back room and stuff. He told me to uh, uh, take off my pants and bend over. And that was all she wrote. I was like– and then he told me, you know, “Don’t tell nobody or I’ll kill ya parents,” Uh– “Or, I’ll kill you,” whatever. I mean. This is, like, fifty something years ago.
And you were six?
Yeah.
And then you said that continued until you were thirteen?
‘Til I was, ‘til I was thirteen, yeah. It was crazy, but I think I always was gay. I really do, ‘cause I had a crush on Frankie Avalon– shut up! [laughs] Me– [laughs] Fuck and that! I, I– [laughs] That’s crazy but I guess I was! I, I didn’t ask to be born, it’s just, what, what God gave me! Somethin’ I have to deal with!
Yeah, I don’t, I don’t remember choosing to be straight.
Yeah! I ne– I didn’t choose to be here!
I don’t think it was– [Unclear]
I mean, nooo! Not at all! But, you know! Whatever!
So did you have boyfriends growing up?
Nah. No, no boyfriends, just, you know, booty calls.
Yeah?
Yeah. That’s what it is. And I’m cool with it! I ain’t, I ain’t gotta remember your birthday, I ain’t gotta buy you that Christmas– none of that! None, of, that! I’ve been single most of my life! I mean, booty calls is fine. You know, keep it movin’. I’ll call ya next time! [laughs] But! Yeah, but it would be nice to have a relationship but it’s just not in the cards yet.
I’m just, I’m just thinking about when I, when I was, I used to live in North Carolina for twelve years.
Oh! No kiddin’.
Moved back up here, and just, I mean, just having so many people around compared to down there–
Yeah–
You know, I’d imagine it must be somewhat similar, just people all the time. It’s– did you move to the city at any point?
Um, I, I had some friends and I stayed in, uh, the city. I stayed with a girlfriend of mine in, uh, Brooklyn. And I stayed with a buddy of mine in Manhattan. And I stayed with an aunt of mine in the Bronx.
What, what time frame is this? Is this a–
Uhh, I was stayin’ in New York, like– Maybe in the early– Late 70’s, early 80’s. I was stayin’ [shuffling sound], uh, the address was 43rd and Broadway. I think. 43rd between Broadway and 8th. Then I stayed with a friend of mine on 49th Street between 10th and 11th. And uh, same friend, they stayed 46th Street between 8th and 9th Avenue. Yeah. So I’m, I’m no stranger to the city.
See that’s something I never, I never– I went to school in the city but I never lived in the city.
Mm-hmm.
So what was the point, just–
It was cool! It was great and I right by the Times Square area. I used to jog down Times Square and everything. Oh! And I had a friend who was like a fashion designer and stuff. He used to hook us up with clothes [laughs]. Yeah, I think he died–
Did you work for him, or, did you work for him or how did you–
No, no. He, his, his mate was my– I was his best friend. So, so we stayed there.
What did you– what did you do for work while you were there? What did you, how did you earn rent?
I didn’t work when I was livin’ in New York. I was collecting unemployment.
Mmm.
Oh yeah! I did have one job there. I was a messenger. Charger messenger. Oh my God! Right across the street from Bryant Park. They tore down that buildin’, now everything is brand new. But it was, it was fun! It was exciting. But it was sort of hard. I’ll never forget it! [coughs] They gave me a address with PAS on it. I could not figure out what PAS was. It was Park Avenue South. [coughs] Oh my God. I never– I walked so much I couldn’t walk for two days. That’s how, that’s how much walkin’ I did.
You must have had some crazy clients too. Just the stories of going to meet those different people–
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, deliverin’ packages and stuff and everything.
Hold on, pull your mic out a little bit so it doesn’t get tucked up in the–
Oh.
[Sound as mic is adjusted] There you go, there you go.
Oh yeah! I remember this one place I worked at on Fashion Avenue, which is 7th Avenue. This lady, she made, uh, clothes for dogs. And– One day, me and my buddy, we was lookin’ at this macramé thing– she had two of ‘em! And we’re like, “What the hell is that!” Okay, we kept lookin’ and lookin’ and lookin’. Then one afternoon on our break, we smoked a joint and had a friggin’ Pink Champelle. Go look at that, and it was a macramé vagina hole and a asshole.
[Laughs]
I couldn’t believe it! You know, with the hair comin’ at ya ‘cause it’s macramé! Isn’t that crazy!
[Laughs] Yes it is!
How ya, how, ya, you know, you gotta get a little enhanced, now you see how it is! We couldn’t figure out what it was! I saw that and I was floored!
Oh my–
But that’s how life goes! You know, sometimes you think that you see somethin’ and you really don’t see it until you have a little spirit and then. That’s what it is!
[Laughs]
Yeah! It’s like, eureka!
So, I mean–
Epiphany!
So, messenger, you said you were uh– I’m interested to know the jobs that you’ve had because I feel like you must have–
Oh my God!–
Had some of the most interesting–
I had a job workin’ at General Foods. I think I was in my twenties or thirties. I don’t even–
‘cause everything, now that I’m sixty I don’t remember what, what year. But I had to clean– Dog shit. Cat. Rabbit. Rats. And, it, it was at General Foods. There was like testin’ products on animals and everything. So my job is to get geared up and everything and change. And you know, give them water. Give them food and change their, they– that was, that job was horrible. But I had to do what I had to do. ‘Cause like, dogs– Like, when they, they usually shit on the wall. So you gotta [laughs] come in and gear up. They do! And then you have to squirt the thing and get the squeegee and– [laughs] I mean, it was a horrible job but you had to do what you had to do! Oh my God– I worked at the Hyatt, the Hilton, the Ramada, the Radisson, the Compree. Chee Chee’s. Castle de Peter. Denny’s. Uh. McDonald’s, The Chowder Pot, and a host of the frickin’ places..
In high school–
I mean–
In high school? Did you do work in high school or?
Oh yeah, I started at the Cranbury Inn in Cranbury and stuff. So I was catered to the, um– The hospitality industry. I’m not good workin’ in factories and stuff even though I’ve had factory jobs, janitorial jobs and that type of thing. Maintenance jobs.
You’re good at the hospitality industry?
Mm-hmm.
What’s that like? I mean, I– that’s, that’s–
It’s fun! I mean, you meet nice people every day, you look nice, you’re in a nice environment. And you get tipped! What’s wrong with that? That’s quick, easy money! You just have, havin’ fun, lookin’ good, smellin’ good and bein’ nice to people and go home with money! And you, you meet some really nice people!
Yeah.
And, and the people that usually go these places, you know ain’t, they ain’t ghetto-fied.
[Laughs]
[Laughs] I make up my own words as I go.
[Unclear]
Ghetto-fied. No they ain’t! Some of them, but–
What, what high school–
Mmm–
Where did you go to high school?
Oh. Hightstown High School. I was in the marchin’ band. The concert band.
What did you play?
Uh, clarinet. But the marchin’ band– I just, I held the sousaphone, you know, march in the back with the percussionists. But I was in a lot of plays and stuff in high school. I was, uh, what was I– I was in Guys and Dolls, I was a havana dancer. Uh. Oh yeah, I think grammar school I was in Oliver. I played Mr. Sourberry the Undertaker. I played Fredrick Douglass. Yeah, those were the good old days– huh?
In which play were you Fredrick Douglass?
It was about Fredrick Douglass’s life.
And you played the main character?
Yeah! See, but I got nervous because I, I’m not really good with, with the dr- the dramatic part. I mean, that was back then. You know, I was young. I mean, now’s a different story, no tellin’ what I can do. Mm-hmm. Yeah but, but it was– I could say more or less, my life was pretty good until I got into the drugs parts. That’s how I lost my apartment.
You wanna tell me about it?
Eh–
It’s okay if you don’t want to.
Eh, I’ll go back to it.
Okay.
I mean it wa– I guess something, I mean, cause I’ve been single like I’ve said, I’ve been single most of my life and– That always been like a friend. You know what I mean? Go get your drugs, you know, you really don’t have to be alone or whatever. But you live and learn. I’m over it.
What was your drug of choice?
I took a– I smoked the crack.
Oh.
I sure did.
Tell me–
But I, but I have, but I smoke pot every now and again now. You know, to calm my nerves or whatever. Of course I’ve been doin’ it for so daggone long and I don’t wanna– Uh– Go from one thing to another. ‘Cause like I go through this cyc– they want to prescribe ‘em all these other pills, I said no, just let me stick with the medication I’m used to and let me deal with that cause I don’t wanna have more problems and be addicted to somethin’ else, you know what I mean?
It’s fucked up, the craze of what’s going on with the opioids and everything.
Yeah. I never was an opioid person, no. I mean, I, I did when I had my knee, knee problems but.
Sure. I just did it and that’s it. [Yawns] Excuse me. Yeah. But life goes on. Live and learn, you move on. But for now, I want to get back to New Brunswick so I can get into where I want to be.
Yeah, let’s go to when you lived in New Brunswick, cause back in, in the good old days, how did you– How did you come to, what did you move to New Brunswick?
When?
Yeah, when? Tell me about living in New Brunswick– and how you ended up in New Brunswick.
Oh. Oh. I was living in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Where a, uh, girlfriend of mine. She passed, so that was traumatic. I had, uh. You know, sell her stuff and, and, and, you know, move and find a place. So I moved to the YMCA in Harrisburg. And I was, I had a lot of jobs in Harrisburg, too, come to think of it. I, mostly, uh, restaurant jobs. Then I found out I had AIDS.
Ohh.
But I couldn’t cry!
Mm-hmm.
But I could not cry for the life of me. I couldn’t get that pity party thing down. So I got it before I came back home. Uh. They had a place in Harrisburg and tell me about all the HIV and AIDS centers they had in Jersey, which was in New Brunswick. So I got hooked up with that before I came back home. I’ve been HIV positive for– about– eighteen years now? And I’m livin’ well with it. I’m undetectable. I really don’t have sex that much, I mean, unless that counts. [laughs] I couldn’t say. Yeah. Uh.
Was this before–
But I–
You moved to Harrisburg or–
No, when I moved back to, when I moved back to Jersey.
Mm-hmm.
From Harrisburg. That’s how I found out I had AIDS. See, they said AIDS, he didn’t say HIV.
Right.
But I was real skinny, too. I lost– I didn’t know how skinny I was and everything. I’ll never forget, we had a family picnic and then they saw me, it’s like my mother’s sister’s cryin’ and stuff. I’m like “What they cryin’ for?” I thought I looked cute! [laughs] You know what I mean? I was skinny! No! But then I start takin’ my medication and everything. Then, um, I was livin’ with my mom in Cranbury. And then, see, my Sec-[snaps]-tion 8 and [snaps] all that stuff [snaps] everything happ-[snaps]-ened like [snaps] real quick. Everything. Then I had gotten my apartment. But first I had a sink– a studio apartment. Then I bumped up to a one bedroom with a balcony. It was nice! Until I got into, to the drug thing. And that’s how I lost it. But you live and learn. You know what I mean?
The– the apartments in New Brunswick or are you talking about Cranbury?
No, in New Brunswick.
In New Brunswick. So you had the one bedroom– is this the Commercial Ave one, or?
Yeah, yeah the one we lived in. Yeah. On the eighth floor. Yeah. my first apartment I was on the fourth floor with a balcony. That, that’s when that guy got, uh, got killed back there, ‘member? That guy got killed back there and they threw ‘em back in the dumpster? [pause] You didn’t know that?
No! Tell me that story.
Oh my God!
I missed that.
See, his sister, uh, works at the Hyacinth. Yeah! The, uh, there were triplets, three, three boys and stuff. I think was, like, two cousins or a brother ‘n sister got married and stuff so they’re like– Well anyway, he used to work there. He used to be like, maintenance and stuff. And he used to go with, he used to hang around with these people–
[Cell phone ringing]
Wait a minute– 828– can I answer this real quick?
Yeah.
[On phone] Hello?
[Speaker phone: “Good afternoon, I’m callin’ from Livingston Manor Apartments. I’m–] Yeah.
[Speaker phone: Uh, calling back. I didn’t understand– ]
Yeah.
[Speaker phone: your name on the phone–]
Lenwood?
Speaker phone: [What’s your name?]
Lenwood, L-E-N-W-O-O-D–is this Norma or Carmella?
[Speaker phone: Hi, how are you! This is Norma.]
How you doin’ Norma?
[Speaker phone: Good.]
That’s good.
[Speaker phone: I’m callin’ you back– Loretta’s not in the office today.]
Yeah, yeah.
[Speaker phone: Is there any–?]
Yeah, I saw her yesterday.
[Speaker phone: Oh! Good for you. Good.]
Yeah, Monday. Yeah, yeah, I think she got all the paperwork she needed.
[Speaker phone: I hope she did.]
Yeah.
[Speaker phone: And uh, if she didn’t she will give you a call back.]
Okay, that’s great. And I did see the apartment.
[Speaker phone: Oh, good!]
Yeah, yeah.
[Speaker phone: How’d you like it?]
It’s a nice size! It’s better’n where I’m at! Oh heck yeah! Yeah, I’m, I’m the joy at there! I appreciate you callin’ me!
[Speaker phone: I know that you are a joy.]
I appreciate you callin’ me.
[Speaker phone: No problem, Lenwood.]
Okay, honey.
[Speaker phone: Take care.]
Thank you!
[Speaker phone: You have a good day.]
Okay, you too, take care, Norma.
[Speaker phone: Okay, you too, bye bye Lenwood.”]
Okay, bye bye.
[Phone call beeps and disconnects.]
00:26:11
Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s housing, you know I had to answer that one.
Mm-hmm.
[Laughs] Yeah.
So where were we? Tell– you were tellin’ me the story about how, the uh–
Oh, the guy that got killed.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah! I think it was somethin’– they took his money? Or whatever. I don’t know if he got killed on that property or whatever. But they found him and back in the dumpster, naked with leaves over’m. That’s crazy! And I lived on the fourth apartment– I, I saw when the coroner took his body and everything. And the police cars and all that? That’s crazy. It is!
So this is– When was this? This was like, 2010? 2011?
Somethin’ like that. Somethin’ like that.
When did you move to New Brunswick? What year, do you remember?
Twenty– oh one. I think it was the same year when uh, um– The World Trade Center. I think it was that same year.
Where were you on 9/11? Do you remember?
Yes I do. I was in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania donatin’ my plasma and I’m sittin’ in the chair and I looked, saw on TV when the plane went into the building’? Ah. That was crazy. And the, and you know Harrisburg’s the capital of Pennsylvania. So that shut down, the post office and the– it was, it was like really crazy. Yup. And then, I think that was in September? Yeah, that was the September.
Yes.
I think I’m– [pauses] Huh. I think maybe I– Moved back to Cranbury in November somethin’? [pauses] I don’t know. You know, I have sometimers. I can remember some things–
Sometimers?
Sometimers! [laughs] Yeah!
I’ve never heard that before.
Yeah! Sometimers, yeah! I’m tryin’ to get thoughts!
Oh boy, that’s–
Mm-hmm.
That’s not a good memory.
Yeah.
That’s a bad memory.
Ah. Yeah.
So–
Yeah.
So from Cranbury, I’m sorry, from Harrisburg to New Brunswick, Cranbury to New Brunswick?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Harrisburg to Cranbury and then Cranbury to New Brunswick, yeah.
So you, you get to New Brunswick, new city, how do you start to set up shop? Where do you get– walk me through it.
Ahh– Well I, I started goin’, I used to go to– Um. Meetings at the Heir Be Chandler. It was a support group. I used to go there and then I got hooked up to the Hyacinth. Because the Hyacinth, they do help you with a lot of things for people with HIV. And there’s a lot of people, people that has it. You know, and then there’s people that don’t know and don’t take care of yourself. It’s ea-the only thing you gotta do is take care of yourself, stay positive and try to do the right thing.
Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say– what’s the, what’s the process of, what’s the care like? The medication–
Oh! The medica– well, I used to take, like, uh, three– well, when I first started I had to take like, twelve pills every twelve hours. Oh yeah! But I ain’t miss a beat with takin’ my pills and everything. And what was so crazy, when, when I got back home, when I first had gotten infected? I grew plants and I used to pee on my plants. And those sunflowers grew about 7 feet tall! [claps] I couldn’t believe it! I watered them and them plants were amazing!
Ha!
It really was! See, but I do like gardenin’, you know, it–
Yeah, you were saying that–
Yeah. Yeah, you saw my plants out there.
I did.
Mm-hmm. I water them at least twice a day. Twice or three times a day and spray their leaves.
00:29:54
How did you get into gardening? You said you did gardening when you were young too right?
Mm-hmm.
Is that uh, just something your parents had you do?
Yeah, my father used– yeah. We used to plant stuff. I find it cathartic. It’s, it’s good. It’s– It’s fine. I like it.
What kind of, I mean, what kind of plants do you like to plant?
Any type.
Flowers, or?
Any type.
Flowers–
Flowers, yeah. I’m a– the ones I have now, I did some kinda irises and I got some mornin’ glories. Some sunflowers. And the, and the other three bigs ones, I don’t know what the hell they are. [Laughs] I have no idea, but they just look nice.
So tell me about some of the jobs you’ve had.
Oh– [pauses] Oh, what– I worked–
What was one of your most, what was the most interesting job you’ve had? You said–
The most–
You worked as a courier or a messenger in–
In New York, yeah.
And then after that, where’d you go to work?
Oh. God!
[Laughs] Makin’ you think deep! [laughs]
Oh my God! I mean– I, ay-yai-yai-yai-yai-– See, I’m tellin’ ya, sometimers is kickin’ in, ‘cause I’ve had so many dag-gone jobs, it’s like–
Why don’t I go get you another water while you think–
Unbeliev– oh, that sounds perfect!
And then you hang out–
Yeah, while I think of where– You know, I should start writin’ down all the jobs I had. I mean, it’s a–
[Laughs] Yeah, do whatever you want! [laughs]
Man, okay! Okay, I will start! Okay–
00:31:33
L-H-O–. [Silence. Paper rustling. Background noises, pen writing, speaking in background.]
00:33:36
Yeah, I’m still here– oh. I don’t know if he took the– umm– [Pause.]
Got’em!
Thank you. Are they cold this time? [Both laugh] Well I have water and don’t put it in the ‘frigerator!
They got it in a closet over there.
Boy, that makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it. [laughs]
[Unclear]
Uh, see now I’m, okay, thank you–-
So, do you know about, do you know about the 37 Voices Project at all?
Ahhh, no.
Okay, so the whole reason, um, that it’s called 37 Voices–
Thirty-seven people.
Thirty-seven people, yes.
Okay.
But those thirty-seven people represent the thirty-seven percent or more of New Jersey residents–
Okay
Who are living at or below the poverty line, or have suffered with income inequality or have suffered from food insecurity at any point–
Which is me.
Are, I mean, you said unemployment, Section 8 and things like that. So you struggled with economic issues. And so part of this–
’Cause I can’t keep a frickin’ job!
So part of this–
Because of this prejudice bullshit!
So tell me–
It’s a gap! I mean I really, I really didn’t think about it because a lot of customers, they like me, the Androma Company. But when it comes down to management they always find some way to frickin’ get rid of my black ass! Just like at the Barge Restaurant! Everybody else was white and Spanish! Then my black ass come in there, they lookin’ at me and this one Colombian guy, he accused me of fuckin’ dippin’ some bread in some salad dressing. Which I did not! I had the bread over there, I poured it out of that so. So then the bitch assaulted me with goddamn calamari! How the hell you gonna throw calamari at somebody and call me a motherfucker? I’m like, you so and so and so and so. That happened on a Sunday. I went back the, the next Monday to speak to the boss– the boss fired my black ass! Tell’n me I don’t listen! What! I said “Well, well can I work on–” “No!” Just like this bastard today! I mean, them ladies been there for fifteen frickin’ years and shit! I ain’t been there two months! My black ass is fired again! What the hell! When I was workin’ at the frickin’ dag-gone George Street Playhouse! This one black girl and stuff– she didn’t like me, she smoked a joint and then after that– ‘cause I don’t, I don’t understand when they smoke weed, how you gonna get evil and nasty when you’re workin’ with people? That’s, you’re supposed to be nice and more pleasant and everything!
00:36:07
Well, anyway. She accused me of goin’ out and, and smoke three cigarettes. Now, I went out three times and smoked the same goddamn cigarette and she wanted me to help her with her job. No! So she fired me. ‘Cause I was gonna take actin’ lessons and all that stuff because when you’re an employee, you can do that. Behind that skinny bitch I couldn’t! I mean, it’s like every time when I try to do something right and everything, somethin’ always put a frickin’ wrench in it. And I’m a people person! You know! I feed ya if I have a little somethin’, you know, I help you out. But I don’t get it in return!
But you said–
So.
So many jobs, you said, you worked even on the ride over there, you said, I mean, go through them.
Go through’em? Well–
I mean, you don’t have to go through all of them– [unclear]
Yeah, well this just the tip of the iceberg–
[Unclear] you’ve been writing them down too I see you have–
Oh, yeah, yeah! Well, the Cranbury Inn, that’s where I got my first start. Now that was– I was 15 years old and it was like Cranbury Inn is like a real historical frickin’ restaurant. It was all black men. And I was the busboy. So it felt kind of like slavery because all the g-all the, uh, customers were white. But us black folks, we served them. You know what I mean? [laughs] It really felt like that! And plus, the atmosphere–
What year is this?
That was, uhhhh– Maybe seventy– four? ‘74? ‘75? Seventy-something. Yeah!
So–
But it was cool! That’s how, excuse me, that’s how I, I’d, that’s why I liked workin’, because you get money! Oh, when they start tippin’ me on the side, that was, that was on. On and poppin’!
[Unclear]
Oh yeah! Oh yeah, I worked over here at this, that’s the Hyatt. Yeah. I was a bellman there. That was cool too! You had the keys to all the rooms and everything. [laughs]
What did they have you do? What does a bellman do?
A bellman do greet the people and he come with the cart and he take the luggage up to the room and show’em, uh, what amenities they have and stuff and where the fri– The thing where you put your luggage and all that stuff and everything.
Does it pay well?
Yeah, it paid alright. The tips was good! Oh yeah! I did the valet parkin’ at Scanicon.
So you’ve valetted before?
Yeah.
Did you drive any nice cars?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and [laughs] ya had to run, and, oh yeah! I lost weight doin’ that! Yeah! [laughs] In the Forrestal Village, ‘cause I was workin’ at Forrestal Village on Route One? And Princeton?
I think I know where that is, yeah.
I worked at the, uhh, the Marriott when they first opened. The friggin’ Hyatt when they first open. On, on Route One. Yeah, that’s Route One, yeah, in Princeton. In the Scanicon, back up in the– beautiful, gorgeous places I worked at. But then– absolutely crazy.
How do you get, how’d you get to and from work? Did you or, you were living in–
I drove. Yeah, I had a car, I drove back then, yeah. Mm-hmm.
What kind of car?
Oh, I had so many– maybe it was a Ford– When my parent’s gave me car– A Ford LTD, or could have been– Maybe could have been my mom’s Chrysler, I don’t know. I had a little, a yellow Toyota Corolla. Think it was a nineteen-seventy-something. I loved that car but damn she was little. I had a white Caprice Classic. I had a, a Duster. A Lamaz– I had a lot of cars back then.
Which was your favorite?
I think that Caprice Classic. That was a big– oh boy! See, I got in an accident with that one. Yeah, somebody hit it. He ran a red light. He ran a red light and I hit’em.
So–
It was his fault.
And he got the, he paid to fix it, right? Did you–
Oh! Oh no, I think I, no, but I got money out of it, you know what I mean? Ohh, my neck! [laughs]
God.
Yeah! [laughs] Mm-hmm.
00:40:18
Uhh–
So you’re in New Brunswick.
Yeah.
You move to New Brunswick from Harrisburg, PA–
To Cranbury, to New Brunswick–
To Cranbury to New Brunswick. You finally settled down in one of the most– settlin’ in in New Brunswick. You’re already at Commercial Ave? You’re already at the Riverside?–
Yeah, yeah.
And you were at Riverside the whole time. How long did you live there?
Yeah, about eighteen, seventeen years. Seventeen.
At the Riverside?
Or eighteen years, something like that, yeah.
Wow.
I lived there for a while. Yeah, I lived there when all the construction.
Yeah.
Yeah. With Boyd Park and all of that. And the Park Deli and all of that stuff? ‘Cause I remember when they tore all that down!
What was it like before them?
Uh, before it was the way it is now? It was convenient. It was, it was fun. It was somethin’ new. Yeah, cause, cause, cause, um. You can get food and alcohol and everything right across the street.
After they, after they built the–
Before.
Oh! What did they have before?
Before.
What was it?
They had– they had a liquor store called The After 5. Then they had another little, I think a Ray Ban store where you can get loosie cigarettes and sammichs and all of that. Then they– they came over, they had Douglas’s people over there. I think they had a gas station over there, too. And um. On the other side, [rustling] think they had, like a Spanish restaurant. There could have been a laundromat– Yeah! Yeah, it was– it wasn’t that bad. But everything changes.
00:42:00
So like, you said earlier that there were like a bunch of clubs and like, cool bars and stuff. Did you?
Oh, in New Brunswick? Oh hell yeah!
What was it like? Tell me about that.
Oh, it was cool! The Den used to be the, the, the Den is a gay bar. Oh my God! We had some fun up in there. I was, uh, this lady I was live– oh, I say she was my soul mate, you know, she was a fag hag. She used to know this guy Clay that used to live over top of the Den. I mean. Oh, we used to go up there and spend the weekends and everything, go down to the club and everything. It was– it was really fun. And then there was the other one on French Street. It was the, um– The Melody. The Melody was a lil’ hole in the wall. But it was a fire hazard, I mean it really was. It’s like one way out. It was small and everything, but it was fun! Like, the– and then I think ‘cross the street from there– none of these places are there no more, I think the buildings ain’t even there. Used to be the Roxy. Oh, that was, that was fun. It was a lot bigger and stuff. They play a lot of disco music. Then after, then after they closed we used to go to Greasy Tony’s. Oh, Greasy Tony’s, their food was so good! It was greasy and good!
That was–
Oh yeah, they tore that down too. Oh I. It was off of Easton Avenue. Up the–yeah!
Where was that–
For the–
It’s like right, right over there with the, with the strip there where it goes out?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, where you go, go up by uh–
The train station?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right up by the, yeah. Yeah, that’s Easton Avenue, it goes straight up– yeah.
That’s certainly [unclear], definitely.
Oh my God, yeah.
I can’t even imagine what– what was it like back then? I mean, was it, it wasn’t nearly as pimped up.
Oh, no no no, not at all. Greasy Tony’s, it was like a after-hour, you know, when the bar closed, everybody go to Greasy Tony’s. I think they closed around five or six in the morning or something like that. But they had like cheesesteaks and hamburgers, hotdogs, it was good. Ahh. And the, and the grease just dripped [laughs] from your mouth from the cheese. Oh yeah!
‘Cause now they got, uh, the stromboli place over there.
Mm-hmm. Stromboli?
Yeah.
They can keep that.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, they got all those, yeah. They got, I think, Silvia’s.
That’s–
Or Evelyn’s.
I’ve heard [unclear]–
Evelyn’s, I think it’s like Greek or somethin’.
Yeah, with the back, area in the back–
Evelyn’s. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, real, yeah. And then they got the Gourmet Noodle– Stuff Yer Face, yeah, I put an application in there too. It’s like “you think you ‘gon work in here, nigga?”
[Laughs].
Oh yeah. It’s a lot of that. A lot. It’s like, I don’t understand it, what the, what the fuck they think was goin’ on with slavery, what’s goin’ on? We was doin’ all the damn shit. Now I can’t even get a fuckin’ daggone job. You get all these daggone little prissy ass little young kids that don’t wanna serve you right and be polite and look in you in your eyes and really want you to have a good time. You don’t have none of that. It’s ridiculous.
00:45:15
Are you saying kids are different now these days?
Oh, the little bastards? Yeah, they are. They’re so rude, they’re– they’re ugh! Not all of them! Not all of ‘em, no, no. Some of them have good parents and they came from good people. But a lot of them, nnno. Mm-hmm.
How are they, parents, were they with you when you were growin’ up?
Oh, when I was growin’ up, folks– Well, we used to like to look nice. We did wear belts. You know, we didn’t have our asses hangin’ out. Mmm mmm. And– I dunno, it was just, it was just a different time. People were more friendly. Now, now kids are like so rude. They don’t care. It’s ridiculous. That’s, that’s why I’m glad I’m the age I am now. You know? Mm-hmm.
You think you were born in the right time?
Yeah, I think so. For me, yeah. Yeah. But– I don’t know. Man, I’m usually long winded but shit, I’m talked all the hell out.
[Unclear].
[Laughs]. Unless you ask me some–!
[Unclear].
[Laughs].
I’ll try to, I’ll try to keep it light, too, and try to figure out– because I don’t want to do like, Boom! Boom! Boom! Askin’ all these questions.
Oh, you can! I mean. I mean, that’s what I’m here for.
I mean, I’m really interested in learning about the stuff that I, that I, personally that I have no experience with.
Oh, okay, yeah.
But I mean, that’s just the stuff that’s intriguing me that’s at the top of my head right now–
Oh, that’s cool.
But like, I mean, I’m really interested in the club scene ‘cause I was never in the club scene–
Oooooooh my God–
And, so I mean, I’ve been to gay clubs maybe one or twice but I’ve never–
Yeah.
Like I really want to get into, when we get there, what’s the scene like? You have a kid growing up, and like did you, did you stay with it at all?
There were so many different places, I mean. I, it was, um. The Garage. Uh. The Hollywood, the Limelight, the Bond. Starship Discov– there were so many places. But people, you know, gay straight or whatever, you know, people just went here and had a good time? You know? Just release, go dance, have a cocktail, do what you do or whatever. I mean, but, sex was really prevelent back then. I mean. I mean, ‘cause I used to work in a bathhouse. Used to work in a gay bathhouse– boy, that opened up my eyes. Oh my god!
Go on.
Every type of man you, you daggone see somebody’s grandfather, the hus– husband’s cheatin’ on they wives and stuff. Next thing you see them in a damn sling. I’m like, “Oh! My God!” It, I mean, it really opened my eyes, you know? People are people. I mean. To each his own, that’s how I look at it. You know? You do you. I ain’t got n-no problems with people and their genders and their identities or whatever. No problem. That’s you, that’s how you were born, that’s how God made you. God bless you. If you want to, I mean. That’s how, that’s how I look at life, I don’t judge people on that.
I agree.
Mm-hmm.
I definitely agree.
Yeah, but the clubs, I mean. The music was so great, I mean. And people used to dress up and– It was really a nice time! And the music played a lot with it. The music– I mean, if you look back in the– in the, uh, music back in the 70s and 80s it always had a story to tell. Always something positive to say.
00:48:29
What k–what k–, what kind of were you listening to while you were there?
Um– Disco and uh, R&B.
Who were, who were, who were your artists?
Oh God.
Talk me through, what did it mean to you?
There’s so many! Oh my God– Uh! Peter Brown and– Just so many of ‘em. DC Le Rou. A lot. There’s so– oh my God! Vast amounts.
How did you discover new music? Was it, was it in the club that you learned new songs? How did I discover?
How did you come on new, like, hear about new artists or know about–
Oh, I used to go to the clubs. See, what, what, cause what, when I, when I, knew I was gay and was goin’ to New York and everything, um. The next time I used to take the bus to, um, New York and this Puerto Rican friend of mine he went to ha-he went to high school with me and stuff. He used to go and stuff. So he turnt me on to the bath house scene and the clubs and everything. Yeah I do owe it to Ethan, yeah. Yeah. He turnt me– plus, we were like from the same area, so I felt safe with him and stuff. You know, I stayed with him in the end, a friend of his. Yeah. I thought I stayed in Spanish Harlem too. Forgot about that. Yeah. And then I, I, I just met people! I mean, not these country bumpkins. I was in New York! Man, I ain’t time for these little time for these country ass niggas. Uh-uh! No!
New York’s supposed to attract everybody, you know?
Yeah, and it sure did! It attracted me! As soon as you get off the bus it felt like freedom! And as soon as you get back on the bus goin’ back to Jersey it felt like a cloud of doom again. There was more freedom over there.
What do you mean by that, what do you mean? Is it just you can’t do that kind of stuff over in Jersey, or?
Pfft, you know how judgemental these people are around here. Oh my God! If you wanna wear a little makeup or somethin’– “Oh, look at him!” In New York they, they keep it movin’.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? You could just be yourself! They don’t care. I mean.
[Unclear] You can do that stuff a little bit now.
Where?
I mean, hopefully in New Jersey but not, not–
You New Jersey’s the armpit of the East Coast?
You’re not a New Jersey fan, huh?
I’m, I’m from New Jersey!
I know!
And all I get is fired and kicked to the curb!
I, I–
Today.
Was it your bosses, do you think it was the jobs? What, what is, what–
It’s the bosses. It’s the bosses.
Straight up discrimination?
Just straight up, yeah. I mean, why this guy frickin’ daggone let me go today? I was there every–
Yeah, tell me about this. Start from the beginning of this, how you got the job.
I just went and asked him! I just went–
Like for people who might be, not know the story or, like, start from the beginning. What are you talking about?
I’m talkin’ about– I’m getting this job at– this job at this laundromat. Yeah, I just saw a sign on the door and I just appli– gave him the application and he said, uh, “Can you start?” And I’m like yeah. See, but then there was a– Language barrier. ‘Cause mostly all the women speak Spanish. Or, and they speak broken English. So was like, hard with the, you know, communi– and most of all the customers are Spanish. So maybe that’s why he let me go ‘cause I’m not Spanish.
So what kind of–
I’m not–
Work was this?
A laundromat.
In what town?
Perth Amboy. Oh yeah, yeah– ‘member I showed you when we went past?
I know, this is for the–
Oh! Okay.
But I’m imagining–
Okay–
They’re probably going to cut my voice for most of it and try to–
Okay–
Put it together almost like a narrative where you’d be explaining.
Okay.
So it’s like, “And then that one place–” You know what I mean?
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
So if I were to have–
Yeah, yeah.
You start, I would say like, “oh, the most recent job was–”
Yeah.
So if I had you start a sentence like that.
Yeah. The most recent job I had was that laundromat.
And what happened at, what was, how did you?
It was okay for a minute, but then he just called me up and told me to come in 9:30, I knew somethin’ was goin’ on. And he said well, “I don’t think it’ll work out” and stuff. “So, can I have my keys back?” And that was it and that’s that. [Claps].
00:52:38
And that’s not the first time you’re sort of surprised by an employer.
Oh, no. No, I’m so used to it now. But back in the day I used to cuss’em out. Oh my God. You got a job and you got money and here I am, I’m comin’ on my days off and everything and you gonna fire me? Well mother-fuck you, fuck this job, and fuck you! You kiss my black ass and all that! Oh yeah! I mean, what else, what else, I mean, come on now! You, you’re out of money, I mean! Your expectations are high and it’s like the rug is pulled from under you. How you expect somebody to feel? Happy? [Laughs].
And what do you do at that point? I mean, this happened a bunch of times, how did you–
Oh!
What was your strategy? I mean, how did you–
How did, oh– I just, just pray on it, give it to the Lord, you know what I mean? And. I don’t know. I– Yeah! I dealt with that a lot! But I’m not a negative person. I don’t dwell. And I don’t sulk on it. You know? It happened, you move on. You can’t change it. Keep it simple, stupid! [Laughs]. You can’t change it! So move on!
Where do you think that mindset comes from?
I have, well–
I think of it as–
I pray.
Yeah?
I pray. And I say to myself, “Dear Lord, Jesus please take the wheel, for I don’t know what I’m doin’. Just help me and show me and guide the way dear Lord. Please help me.” And like. Boom! It’s like, works for me!
Tell me more about your relationship with God. Like, how did it start? What can you tell me about, where do you, what can you tell me about that over time? What is your relationship with God?
Over time? Well.
When you were young, did you, were you like, religious?
I’m, I don’t think I’m really religious. I’m more spiritual. Because the religious part, I mean, the stories sound, like, too magical for me. I’m like, “How this happen and how–” I mean, really! How you gon’ make wine outta water? How do you do that? And that’s only a one time deal! Let me make some wine! [Laughs]. Outta some frickin’ water. Let me make some money!
Was your family spiritual or were they religious? Are they, what religion is your family? Uh, Christian. Um. When they used to go to Virginia to my grandmother’s we used to go to church. I guess the Methodist Church. See, I don’t understand the Methodists, the Baptists, Presbyterian. All of that is like. Too much for me.
I see.
Ain’t it supposed to be one God and one thing? Now you got all this that and the other. I just keep it simple. You know? I mean, it’s too much. [Laughs].
So you’re spiritual.
Yeah.
What does that mean?
That mean I believe in positive things. And the– just like my apartment. Told you I’m livin’ under a crack house. So I got rocks all around, plants, sometimes I even put salt ‘round the place ‘cause there a lot of criminal activity out there. I mean, really just three weeks ago some guy stole a car. I’m goin’ to water my plants, he pulls out the fuckin’ driveway, next thing I know three cop cars pin him in. He hit the daggone cop car and spun off away, went ‘round the corner, hit a frickin’ daggone tree. And the cops came yesterday and knocked on my door and ask me if I seen this guy [sighs]. Do you see why I want to get, get out of Perth Amboy? It’s too much drama!
00:55:50
So that’s Perth Amboy.
It’s tr–oh, one time I was goin’ to the liquor store a– after I got off work? This guy was layin’ in, [laughs] front of the door, blood comin’ outta his mouth, look like somebody stabbed him in his frickin’ bo– blood comin’ all the way down there, and he’s in front moanin’. Yeah! That’s what I seen in Perth Amboy! Since I been in Perth Amboy, I got frickin’ robbed, thirty-five, thirty-five dollars. Two people stole my cell phone. I mean, I should– Now I’m thinkin’, I mean. I just, just meetin’ people, you know, you just don’t think you invite somebody in the house they gonna steal from ya.
Yeah.
Two cell phones, somebody stole my daggone frickin’ rent money.
Stole your rent money?
Well, it was a money order but still they stole it. Um. Yeah.
They stole two cell phones?
Two cell phones, five, two goddamn jobs. Stole my rent money. What’s, what’s there to like about that town? What! Nothing. Half the town is Spanish. No. I mean. I have nothin’ against Spanish people as a whole, but some of these individual motherfuckers can kiss my ass. I don’t, I don’t appreciate ’em. I really don’t. And all the ones who stole from me was, were, them.
How many times have you been robbed?
In my life?
Do you remember?
Too many. Not at gunpoint or anything like that, but just. You know, things that are stolen. Like whatever. But I don’t dwell on that either. At least I got my health and my life and I’m o– you know. You always can give more. You always can get other stuff. I don’t do that. ‘Cause it’s not good for ya! And another thing with bein’ HIV positive and stuff, your mental health has a lot to do with stuff, ‘cause if you stress out and everything that will make you more sicker.
Really? So you–
But you know stress can turn anybody out.
00:58:01
Yeah.
Yeah! Don’t do it! You can’t change it! [Laughs] Move on! It happened, forget about it! It’s like, it’s like, uh– Usin’ the toilet! Flush that shit! Let it go! [Laughs] Flush it!
[Laughs] I really hope they use that!
[Laughs] Yeah, flush it!
It does remind me of the Serenity Prayer.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, give me the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Now if you ain’t got the wisdom yet and you don’t know the difference yet, I’m sorry! [laughs]
Do you think, do you think, has, has, I mean you were in AA right?
Huh?
You were in AA you said?
Hey hey?
AA.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you think that’s been helpful, I mean is that something–
AA, NA, yeah! Oh, I sent myself to rehab four, five times!
Tell me about that process of getting clean, ‘cause that’s not something, that’s not something everybody gets through.
Yeah. And if you’re on heroin, total different daggone story. See, see my addiction was coke. You know what I mean? And it’s more like a mental thing. It’s that my body don’t crave it or anything, but like sometimes if I get bored or something, you know what I mean? Boredom, like they say a idle mind is the devils’ workshop. That’s why I get so pissed that I get frickin’ fired and I wanted to take the actin’ classes and everything! So I can produce, you know, more positive stuff and don’t fall back! See, every time I try to do something, somebody always pulls something from under me. And then I lose my motivation again but. Now that I’m older now, I think I can work a little bit better. And may I turn this off so I can go to the bathroom?
Absolutely.
Okay.
We’re getting perfect sound from you now so.
Okay great.
Okay so, actually we just hit an hour of tape so.
Uh-huh. Okay!
We’ve got plenty, we’ve got plenty to work with I think.
Uh huh.
But I would like, I would like to, to, if there’s anything that we missed or that I missed or anything like, in particular that, I don’t know. Did you have any mentors?
Mentors–
I’d love to hear more about.
Uh, mentors– No, not really.
Okay.
No. I used to take dance lessons back in the day.
Really?
Oh, yeah, I was in Princeton Ballet Society. I used to take the modern dance, the ballet, and the jazz. And the modern dance and all that. Yeah, yeah, ‘cause I was uh, heavy at one time , that’s how I lost all my weight. I was determined to lose weight and I did. And I kept my weight off for years. [Laughs] For years I kept it off! Yeah. It, it was fun! I used to take tap and everything. I still can do a little bit of it, so. You know, everything take practice practice practice, you gotta keep doin’ it, you know what I mean? I wanna get, get back into it, you know what I mean?
You can put that back in your pocket if you want–
Oh, that’s where it was? Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh! We were talking before, we were talking before about New Brunswick’s recovery and it’s, you said you just made it, you said you made a decision–what was it? And you said it was more behavioral, right, is that right?
It is!
That’s while you were addicted to?
It is, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s more behavioral. Yeah! Yeah.
Can you talk more about that? What do you mean?
Yeah! I mean, as for me, if I had more things to do, I wouldn’t have, uh, fell into it. But I always get kicked to the curb it seems like. Every time when I try to do something, you know, and I fall right back. But, see, I– S– I need to be around a group of people that we’re, like in the same– Like we have the same interests, you know?
[Cell phone begins ringing in background: “Hello Moto!”]
Who this? Should we tell’m to– Eight– oh, this is for my transportation tomorrow. See, here–
[Speaker phone: “This is a courtesy reminder call for Lenwood Smith. You have a scheduled transportation pickup for: August 1st, 2019 at 10 am.]
Yeah. Tomorrow.
[Speaker phone: [unclear] Woodridge Taxi. Please be ready 15 minutes before your expected pickup time. To hear this message again–”]
[Phone beeps.] I already know that. Yeah.
So that’s what you use to [unclear].
Yeah, but I–
I-I-I– All these services that, I mean, what are they like? I mean, are there categories for services like that? Tell me about some of the services like that. What is that service.
Oh! Oh. It’s a medical transportation. They’ll pick you up and drop you off. Um. With your, um, your appointments. But it has to be medical.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you have a medical appointment tomorrow.
Yeah. I have a medical appointment tomorrow. [Laughs] See. But it’s, it’s a, a taxi.
Right.
I mean. Woodbridge Taxi and stuff. So you tell– so I go to the Hyacinth all the time. So I, so when I have to, to do I go there.
01:02:56
And I don’t have to wait for a bus or anything. Pick up and [laughs] drop off.
Right from your, right from where you’re staying?
Right from my door. And drop me off right in front of my door. So who’s usin’ who?
Not bad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it ain’t who you know, it’s what you know. And it is a little bit whatcha know, too. Yeah–
So after high school, did you go to any type of associate school or–
No, I went to the Academy for Men, Wilfred Academy Cosmetology school. Yeah, yeah but. Then my sister came with her kids and– Was this whole bunch of stuff. So. I let that go and I started workin’ and stuff again. Uh.
So you did, you didn’t finish.
No, no, I didn’t.
Why not?
Uh– Well, I think I lost interest. Yeah. I really did, doin’ people’s hair and all that. Fuck that either.
[Laughs] No?
No, not for me.
Not for you, huh?
No, no. Not at all.
If you could uh, if you could extend your fingers and get any job you wanted, where do you think you’d want to work and why?
I would like to own my own lounge and stuff where peop– esp– right around here in New Brunswick, ‘specially for the creative people and people, you know, need a release, you know. To have a good t– a social type thing. I would like to open up somethin’ like that.
What’s your pitch?
It would be very nice. What’s my pitch?
Yeah, what’s your pitch? [unclear]
I’m not– a place to go to like, where professionals need to unwind. You know, to get away from they bad kids or whatever. I mean, just like we had like, like in the 80s and stuff, ‘cause people used to go to the clubs and just dance their frustrations off and be fine like the next week. Oh, whatever. Yeah, yeah, there were some good times. I mean, really. But it seemed like there’s no social stuff now. It’s like, everybody’s on the– yeah! On they frickin’ computer! Inside their own heads!
I mean, it’s really like– It’s so funny, I heard somebody say [unclear]– what everybody said, people would stop being assholes if everybody just had access to more information. It’s like, no? [laughs].
People will just– Sometimes people don’t look out for one another no more. And just like the ones in Perth Amboy they’re so r– They’re so evil, they’re just nasty negative people. Always got something ho–nasty to say. I don’t like it!
01:05:35
Why do you think that is?
I have no idea. I don’t know if there’s somethin’ in the water over there, I don’t know. But I, I, I can’t deal with people like that. I just want to be around nice decent people like myself. You know? We like to help one another, have a good time or whatever. And do somethin’ constructive and positive and help somebody. What’s wrong with that! [laughs] I mean that’s, that’s, that’s what my goal is.
How about your politics? What are your politics?
What do you mean like, like what?
You know like, like where do you fall? Where do you fall when..?
I’m a Democrat as far as I know. I mean. But some p– oh, just like in Perth Amboy! That town is so frickin’ retarded! Now they have the driveway and the sidewalk. You know these fuckers block the damn sidewalk goin’ into the driveway? I’ve never seen nothing that, and the cops don’t give these people no damn tickets! I mean, if somebody had, in a wheelchair or in– they gotta go around the fuckin’ car? Are you kidding me? That town is retarded! I have n– Once I leaves here, I ain’t comin’ back. I will never ever go back to Perth Amboy again. Hasta nunca!
[Laughs] What is that?
See you never! Well, hasta luega! Hasta la vista! (laughs) Mmm mmm.
So you, I mean, you–
No.
Okay– So Perth Amboy is obviously the bottom in terms of living–
Psshh God–
What’s the best place you ever lived? I mean I guess the city, right?
Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, them years, yeah.
Do you think it’s–
Oh, I had fun. Huh?
Do you think–
The best–
It’s just the proximity of everyone living near each other that makes it, you know, better or?
What, in New York?
New York, yeah, living in– [unclear]
No, everybody, no, the people–
New York–
No, ‘cause the people are different, there’s so many different type of people, type of culture, people learn to get along with one another and share the information. You know? And being kind at it while they’re at it. But this negative shit, it, it’s unbelievable. Oh! Somebody was gonna beat up somebody and stuff because they said somethin’– I mean, it’s ridiculous. It really is. Oh yeah. But getting’ back to my rehab days–
01:07:54
Sure, yeah.
I, I– I went to the Princeton House. The Turning Point. New Hope. And The Discovery.
Was it out or in patient?
In. In patient. Yeah. And why I went so many times is because it didn’t work all the time! [laughs] ‘Cause I came back to the same thing. People, places and things. And then, and then um– Bein’ lonely, you know. Loneliness has a lot to do with it also. But I think I do pretty well considering, you know, bein’ alone. And I have one good friend we talk to every day. I mean. He’s Negative Nelly but. We talk every day. That’s a good thing.
What was the, what was the program, what were the programs like and how would you make them better if you had to design them. What, what is it currently like, what’s the steps like?
What, like rehab?
What are the Twelve Steps, like what is that?
Oh, that Twelve Step bullshit.
Like, what is it, what is the process, how do they try to help you, and if you could change that what would you change?
I have no idea. That’s a hard question.
Well, start with what’s it like. What’s it like?
What’s it like goin’ to rehab?
Yeah.
Uh–.
First day. What happens?
Oh, for–
First day, you make the decision to, to check yourself in. So you’ve check yourself in? Oh! Oh. To make that decision you really have to want to get better and do better. I mean cause it’s all yourself and your life and your health and all that. You really have to come to the decision. You don’t want to do it. Or at least calm it down, nah I’m just kiddin’. [laughs]
That sounds like, like you have to decide to.
Yeah, all of that you have to decide. Yeah, cause most everything’s a drug anyway! Ya know what I mean? You got your cigarettes, you got your this, you got your that– you’re always going to be addicted to something. I mean, that’s a given. I’m addicted to air! [laughs] Somethin’ you gotta– No, I’m addicted– I mean, addiction is somethin’ to–
I mean, air isn’t gonna kill ya [laughs]–
Yeah! Especially if it’s tainted. Yeah..
So you make the decision to– You make the decision to–
Yeah, I made– Yeah, yeah, I didn’t, yeah, yeah, it’s all me, yeah. I knew I wasn’t doin’ well and I didn’t feel right. Ya know. I knew I had bigger and better plans. I mean, but I’m by myself and I don’t really have any people that can help me with that, you know what I mean? So it’s, it’ shard. It really is. That’s why I want to get back to New Brunswick. It’s a college town, I’ma start goin’ to the university, start gettin’ involved. Not like I was when I first got here. Cause when I first got here I was just a, a, a mess. Yeah. I just, really didn’t have a goal. Now I mean, I had a goal but the drugs got in the way. And the people got in the way. And I got myself in my own way. But– This time around, sixty-one! Can’t fuck it up now! [laughs] How many years ya-ya-you think I might have left? You never know! Might be one might be two, might be twenty! Who knows! So the time is now!
01:11:16
So you get there, you sign yourself in, first day you walk in, they say, “Hey Lenwood! Come over here.”
Oh! How they do it– I’ve been to, been to four of ‘em and it’s like. Okay they, they, they sign you in, I think do your vitals. Then they uh– Give you a counselor that you have to meet with. And then, uh, sometimes you’re in a group and then you have your one on one. And then of course you have your breakfast, lunch and dinner. And then you have like, some down ti–sometimes you have to uh, to write your story. Or whatever. Why you got in that situation. It’s a lot! All, all the programs are different, I mean. Different. Yeah. Different. Some are set up different. But I think the one I–. See, I, I signed myself into a psychiatric units too. Thank God for Medicaid! [laughs]
[Unclear].
Yeah! I did that ‘cause, ‘cause I was homeless for a minute and I knew I had the insurance and I need a place to go. But then again that was a smart decision because the counselors there and stuff, they help find you a place. And ya, ya have a, ya–. You have your three males, you come do your laundry, you can do your, um. Arts and crafts. It was, it was– I met some fun crazy people [laughs]. And they ain’t had to pay for none of it. And I do what you gotta do!
Thirty, thirty days or three months, or–?
Oh, the longest I been in the rehab was a hundred and thirteen days. I was there doin’– Hallo– Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas, New Years. I was there through all of it. Um–
Why so long?
Why so long? I have no idea– Maybe I signed up for it, I don’t know. I, I told you, the sometimers is kickin’ in. So many things that happened, you know what I mean?
I get what you’re saying.
Ahh– I mean, life is somethin’, so many– and then there’s things that happened you forgot. And here pops up! Uh– What was I talking ‘bout? [laughs]
Uh, you were telling your story, they had to make you write your story–
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That they gave you a counselor within– One hundred thirteen, I mean–
That’s the longest.
That’s the longest. And this is all, you’re going to cope.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Thank God it wasn’t for the heroin! I’m glad I never got on that. ‘Cause that is frickin’ crazy. I seen people look terrible. Oh, and people dyin’!
01:14:02
Thirteen kids at the high school have died so far.
Thirteen?! Wow! When I was in The Discovery– Uh– The roommate next door to us and stuff, him and this other guy, um, broke out and left and stuff and they found him dead the next day with a OD. He OD’d.
It’s the tolerance.
Yup.
And they, you know, it goes down so quick. Especially with opiates. And you go take the same hit you took three weeks ago–
Mm-hmm.
It kills you.
Mm-hmm.
With weed–
Wow.
Tolerance goes down and you’re just gonna go to sleep.
Oh yeah! You gonna go to sleep and have somethin’ to eat and keep it movin’! Maybe clean ya house or whatever. May, maybe, maybe get a little bit, whatever!
My favorite, uh, Katt Williams bit is when he says like, “We think he dead? He ain’t dead! He’s gonna wake up in 30 minutes!”
Oh yeah, what– what, you said Katt Williams?
Yeah! It was the funniest thing in 2008 when I was employed. Um. I just used to listen to him, him and Pippin on repeat–
Oh, that’s Katt Will– people tell me I sound like him!
You do kinda sound like him a little bit. That’s, that’s–
Ohh, that’s because I got a high voice.
It’s because– yeah, yeah! [Laughs]
Oh, I hate when folks say “yes ma’am!” I’m like “Why I oughta!” Oh, I can’t stand that! Yeah! And my sister say people call her “sir!” She don’t sound like no man! I don’t think I sound like a woman. Maybe I do. I don’t know. I don’t hear myself.
When I heard your voice on the phone, I was like “I know this man–”
Yeah.
“I know this man!” And I couldn’t– it was crazy! I was like “we worked together!”
Yeah!
At [unclear]–
Yeah! Oh, you got when you told me that the Goose Tech Wow–
Tell me about Goose Tech. Tell, tell people about Goose Tech and–
Goose Tech! Goose Tech was fun–
How did you feel about you–
Well, well, this guy Frankie he usually [unclear], he told me uh, that they were, they needed help so I just put in an application and got the job! It wasn’t bad, I mean, it was– I mean, what was it, like two hours? Yeah, like two hours every other day or something like that. It wasn’t that, it wasn’t that bad, I had fun there.
So you worked, you worked Goose Tech and–
Chromocell. Yeah.
What was different, what, what were you doing?
Doing the same thing, but at a different location.
And what was that thing that you were doing?
Oh.
So at Goose Tech, what were you doing?
Oh, taste test! Yeah. Us, uh– Salt. If it’s sweet. Bitter. Sour. And savory?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
You were a taste tester.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s all I did.
Walk me through, walk us through, walk them through–
Oh, the job? You go there and they give you two dif– Two dif– What do you call it.
Samples.
Yeah, two samples, yeah. One will be more or less sweet or sour or savory or whatever. Yup. Just have to tell which one is more or less than the other. Of the flavor. That’s it, basically. It was easy! They paid aight. I mean, just like this, just like what I’m doin’ right now. I’m getting paid very well doing this too, thank you very much. Oh yeah, I got a bone to pick with y’all! I’m givin’ you all my information– nah, I’m just kidding [laughs]. This America! Damn, y’all know I’m poor!
[Laughs]
Damn, loan me a d– no give me 20 dollars! I can buy, uh, some bread, some milk and some eggs. [laughs] I’m just kidding. Oh! I go to w– well, sometimes I go to the Dollar Tree or I go to Shop Rite or I go to the tropical store in Perth Amboy and I get, uh, food from Elijah’s Promise. I’m on their, on their list. So I get like, uh, ground beef, ground turkey, um– Steak, maybe pork chops, chicken. Uh. Potatoes, onions, celery. Uh– Apple, orange, milk, egg. Yeah, it’s enough for me, I’m only one person. I’m not a real big, big eater unless now I can get my eat on [laughs]. Yeah!
[Laughs].
Yeah! But I’m, but I’m thankful. I, I have that.
01:18:31
I’m a terrible cook.
Really?
I’m just not– I mean, I’m not terrible at it I just don’t–
You just don’t like, you’re not into it, yeah.
I don’t, I don’t care, yeah.
Yeah.
I’m also a garbage disposal–
Oh–
So I’ll eat anything.
Ooh, okay, yeah.
Ain’t gotta be fancy or nothing.
Yeah! Oh yeah. I, I, I could cook pretty– I like what I cook!
What’s your specialty?
I mean. I, I like spaghetti. With spaghetti sauce. I mean, that’s so dag-gone easy. I mean, just chop up whatever, throw it in there, throw the tomato sauce, keep it movin’. Got to have the grated cheese, though. If you ain’t got no grated cheese, I’m sorry, you need to go, thank you. You need to go somewhere! [Laughs] Oh yeah.
I’m trying to think of something that we haven’t covered, I mean, we’ve been doin’ this for an hour and 20 minutes–
An hour and 20 minutes.
I’m sure you’ve got places to be but I’m like–
Who got places to be?
[Laughs] I’m just sayin’, I don’t know–
I ain’t got no place to be, no. No.
What–
I know, I, I do have to look for somethin’ else under the table.
Yeah, you said.
I really do. But.
So yeah, where do you start, walk me through that process. Where, where– walk me through your strategy, how you would approach this now? You’re, you’re in a spot now where you have to scramble, you have to find some place to, to get some money.
Yeah, even though I get social security, that don’t last that long.
No?
Heck no! Please! No! One month, come on now. Mhm mhm.
Do you mind telling me what you get from–
Seven hundred twenty-two. Because, um, they take eighty dollars out because they overpaid me. ‘Cause I didn’t, uh, said I overpaid my book. Oh! And then they sent me a letter sayin’ that they overpaid me four hundred eighty dollars more. I’m like how the hell? [Laughs] This country is a mess. But yet you get all these foreigners come over here, don’t even speak the language and stuff and they get get get get. Ugh. They get the social security, they don’t have to pay taxes for this, that, and the third. It’s, it’s just ridiculous, and my ancestors were slaves in this f– country. And I still get kicked to the curb just today. [laughs] Rug pulled under me again. Thank you very much! At sixty-one, do you know the longest job I had was at Goose Tech? And that was three years. I used to average twelve jobs a year.
One a month?
Sure did. Basically, this was like in the 70s and the, and the 80s, where you can get jobs quick.
[Unclear].
The factory jobs and everything. I used to do, uh, the temp jobs. Ugh.
What kind of factory jobs?
Oh yeah. I worked at Quality Eggs, that was horrible. First thing in the morning you smell rotten eggs. And then ya had to rate the damn things. Put them in the light to see if they had the damn chick in it and the. It was horrible. [Laughs] You gotta do what you gotta do! I done this security card thing.
01:21:29
[Unclear].
I ain’t talkin’ about sittin’ down security. I mean, the kind where you, like in the warehouse and you had to go around the buildin’ and check the, the keys. The key lock thing. That was sorta scary. Yeah! You in a big ass warehouse, ain’t nobody there, and you hearin’ this, that, and you’re like “What the hell?” [Laughs]
Where, where was this? Where–
It was on Route 130, I think it was Stolfiin Kimmelmon’s? Uh.
Wait, Cranbury?
Yeah Cranbury, yeah.
I used to work in Cranbury, actually.
No kiddin’! Where about?
At the, uh, uh, the Pearson Education warehouse? Right off of [Exit] 8A.
Okay, yeah! I used to work all the way up at, at, up in there! They had Setco and Grumbockers. I used to work at Setco!
Now they got those lodges up there and–
Oh yeah! Have you been up there in the town Cranbury? Oh, it’s a nice little charmin’ town!
Yeah?
Yeah!
[Unclear].
Oh, my town is cute! It’s very charmin’.
Yeah?
I’ll show you what it look like.
Tell us about it, tell us about it.
It was nice growin’ up there, everybody got along! I mean, it was, it was really– I’m glad I’m, I’m, I’m raised from there. ‘Specially doin’ the square dancin’ and all of that and, and the, uhh, doin’ the maypole thing and the ice skatin’ and– The ice skatin’.
[Unclear].
Huh?
Did you have a best friend?
Yeah, I had a lot of friends! Yeah! Yeah. I had a lot of friends. I got along with everybody. Yeah. The boys, the girls, the blacks, the whites. Yeah! Yeah. Uh– Life is too short. The friggin’ daggone [unclear]. Wait a minute, I’ll show you a picture.
[Unclear].
Oh, yeah– “Pictures of the town of Cranbury, New Jersey.” [Phone: “These pictures should match.”] See, this is where I went to, this is where I went to school at. It was old ass damn school. Built like in eighteen-somethin’. Right up there with the art class. The teacher’s name Mrs. Hoisenton. She was a fat funky damn art teacher! [laughs] She had the smell.
Alright.
Now see, that’s Main Street and and that– view all. Yup. That’s the Church I used to go to, that’s the Methodist Church. And– This, oh, that’s right down town. Uh–
That’s Main Street?
Yeah, oh yeah. Main Street. Oh, yeah! That’s where Teddy’s Luncheonette is. This used to be the pharmacy years ago. And– That’s the big Cumberland Farm. See, these streets I was raised on. Oh! That’s the, that’s the lake we used to ice skate on. That’s Mrs. Meyer’s house.
[Laughs].
Yeah! Ain’t that a nice little charmin’ town?
Yeah!
You know there wasn’t no, no crime or nothin’ like that! That’s Kingston– Mm-hmm– Yup, that’s Hamilton. I love Cranbury. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah! That’s right by the lake and stuff. There was this retarded girl used to live there named Gretchen. And– Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah.
Is that the hotel? That’s the Cranbury?
Oh Cranb– oh yeah they got one on, yeah on Cranbury South River Road.
You always said the Cranbury Inn, can you find it?
Yeah, the Cranbury Inn, that’s where I got started. Yeah.
I want to see this place.
It’s a nice town! See, you with the quickness. Oh, you just got that real– tap tap tap! Oh, that’s the new part of the Cranbury Inn. That’s the new part.
01:25:28
Mm-hmm– Oh, yeah, that’s the new part, yeah. I worked in the old part. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s. See, I worked under f-four different owners. Uh, my best one was Richard Saner. Oh my God, he was the best boss ever! That’s the liquor store, and you go in there, yeah, that’s the liquor store. Mm-hmm. Well maybe they don’t have it now, I don’t know. ‘Cause I haven’t been there in years.
[Unclear] Maps here, do, um, street view–
Oh yeah.
There we go.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Wow.
Oh, they fixed that– wait a minute! They fixed the sidewalk!
Oh wow.
‘Cause it used to be real lumpy. Oh, they fixed all of that! That’s–
[Simultaneously] The graveyard!
The graveyard that I used to work at! See, I was named after uh, a brother of mine that died. He’s buried over there somewhere. Oh yeah, they fixed the daggone sidewalk! Whaat? Oh, yours is cool, that’s cool! Wow! That’s cool! I wonder if my phone do that. Wow! Yeah, that’s the Presbyterian Church. Yup! Wooow– One of the guys with 9/11, he used to live in Cranbury. He used to live up from that street.
This one, right?
Uh–
This is–
Uh– Yeah.
Well, let’s see if we can get some specific spots here– There’s the Grainer Lake.
Yup.
The Cranbury Reserve. [Unclear] –public school’s that where you went? Cranbury Public School?
Yup. Cranbury– Yep, now you know my turf.
Yeah [laughs].
Yup.
So the school’s down this way?
Yeah. Can you imagine bein’ raised in this friggin’ damn town? Oh, Halloween was cool, and Mischief Night?
Oh God.
Ooh, and skatin’ on that lake? And they had the speakers and everything. Oh! I remember skatin’ at [sings] “Close to You, by Dover.” (Laughs).
This, this doesn’t look too much different than my town, actually.
Mm-hmm.
In Ringwood.
Yup! Lil’, lil’, oh! That used to be the firehouse!
Right here?
Yeah, yeah, the house of, yeah, yeah, the firehouse, yeah, and there was a pond back there, people used to skate on there too. Wow! That is so cool!
Yeah, Google, Google is some crazy shit, that you can do that.
Wow!
01:28:30
Yeah, you basically can be there.
[Laughs] Yeah!
Let’s see–
Oh see, they tore down the house that, uh, that we lived in.
What was your old address?
Eight West Minster Place. Right across from the cemetery.
Eight West Minster–
Minster. That’s it. Wait a minute– That house used to be right there. I think that’s George Connley’s hut– I went, I went to school with him. That’s the graveyard!
Yup.
That was my playground!
[Laughs].
Oh hell to the yeah! They used to have benches over there, we used to, we used to sit there–
What uh, what’s– it like workin’ in the graveyard? Most people, they get freaked out about that, what’s it like?
It wasn’t that bad! I mean, but it was hot as hell. We used to drink friggin’ daggone liquor and stuff, I used to get visions and stuff thinkin’ they tryin’ to frickin’ communicate with me or somethin’. I’m like, what the hell! [Laughs] I really! I used to get like, these visions, and I’m like, what! Yup.
So what did you do in the Cranbury Graveyard?
Cut the grass. Yup. Cut the grass and, yup, that’s, yup! My mother and father’s buried, and my aunt’s buried back, back over there. Yup! That’s where they’re buried. Buried.
That’s incredible.
Yup.
Where do you want to buried? Not that I want to make you think too hard, but.
Uh– Maybe, I’unno. Maybe back, maybe back there. I don’t know! If you gonna be cremated, how, how’s you gonna get resurrected? See, but how, how that resurrection work, too? You’re already dead and embalmed! See that’s, that’s why I don’t get it! I, I, no! It’s too complicated for me.
So you don’t believe in the resurrections? No?
Resurrection? No. I’m tryin’ ta maintain a resurrection [laughs].
[Laughs] That was totally unexpected!
Really! Gotta go to the doctor for that too! Shit!
Alright, is there anything that you think that you want me to know about what, what–
I want to tell the world to help a brother out so that I can help society and we can help one another to be another, peaceful world. That’s what I want. And it would be nice to get paid for services–nah, I’m just kiddin’ [laughs].
Alright, let’s uh, let’s– call it a wrap there.
Okay.
And then if, uh for the people on the phone listening, or on the, on the audio later listening in the future there–
Whatever–
Uh, I guess we can do another follow up.
Yeah, ya’ll can call me any time.
(01:31:16)
[Unclear] coming to your house or something.
Yeah! No problem. By, by that time I’ll already be livin’ in New Brunswick so you won’t have to come far.
[Unclear] Or we could just come back here.
Yeah.
Yeah, alright!
Or you could come to my house and we could, we could do lunch, I could cook you somethin’. What!
[Unclear] That sounds good!
I can cook, man!
[Laughs].
Oh yeah!
Um, okay. And then you need to sign this waiver–
It’s a, oh, yeah, the waiver–
Did you read it?
Not at all. Got my glasses with me–
Want me to read it to you?
[Reads the waiver] I’ll just sign– Narrator, that’s me.
Got it. Yup, I think so.
Why– [unclear] interview [laughs].
That’s right here, you’re the narrator.
This is cool.
I hope so. I hope they, I hope they have enough. I hope they’re–
If they want more they can get it.
This is my first time ever doing this for this–
Oh yeah, mine too.
Yeah, so I don’t know–
Oh yeah, so we’re rookies.
And they, they were just like “Hey! Can you do an oral history?” ‘Cause they know I know how to use a microphone but.
Oh, okay.
[Unclear] So.
Oh, okay.
So we’re both rookies. So I’m hoping that I was able to get through enough that they’ll be able to–
Oh there’s, yeah! Yeah.
Get enough narrative, you know?
Yeah, yeah, there’s more. I probably need– One, two, three, four, six, four, five– Email, I don’t know my email address yet. Um– I take seven thirty– Today’s the thirty-first.
The thirty-first, yes, you’re right, tomorrow’s August.
Yeah, it’s the thirty-first or.
Thirty-first.
Okay, thirty.
It’s the thirty-first, not the twenty–
Nineteen– Wow–
Okay, you can take this part out–
Okay, yes sir.
And you can take that part off as well–