Pakistani native Sidra Inam is a manager at the Global Grace Marketplace in Highland Park, New Jersey. Her own experience as an asylee helped her to connect with the programs affiliated with RCHP.

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TRANSCRIPT

Interview by Ashley Teague

Highland Park, New Jersey

April 19, 2021

Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn

[00:00:00]

So– [pause] Um. So I’ll, the questions will sort of go from like– early life to now? Um, but if there’s anything you don’t wanna answer? Just say “No thank you! Next question!” [chuckle]

[chuckle] Okay!

Or you can talk about whatever you want now. Whatever you think it, um, is interesting. Um, but will you start, just by, okay. So the way it begins is I say “Hi, my name is Ashley Teague and, um, it is Monday, April 19th, 2021, and we are here at the Reformed Church of Highland Park in New Jersey.” And, um, will you please, um, state your name and spell it for the record?

My name is Sidra Inam. Sidra, S-I-D-R-A. Inam, I-N-A-M. 

Beautiful. Um, so what year were you born and– and where?

I was born in Pakistan, Seal Port in my village. Uh. And then uh, the year was 1984.

Okay, yeah! That’s the year I’m born!

[overlapping] 1st September!

We’re the same age!

1st September–– 

[overlapping] Oh my gosh, but––

1984. Yeah! [chuckles]

First of September.

[overlapping, inaudible]

But you’re so accomplished! You have all these children, and I’m just a– 

Yeah.

Art– Artist interviewing you. 

Mhm hmm.

[sniff] Um. And are there any stories from the time, around the time you were born or from your, the day of your birth or anything?

Yeah, I heard a story about, um, about my birthday. That was first school day after summer vacations. Because in Pakistan, we had three months summer vacation—

Ah.

And first September is first d– every ti– every year, first of September is first day after vacations. Summer vacation. So my sister told me that, ah, she said I was, er, went to the mosque for our reading, our holy Quran?

Uh huh. 

And when I came back, I saw a small girl in my mother’s arms! 

[laughs]  

So, that was, that, that– I always thinking about that, my sister told me that. Um. And the sister. 

Um. So who, so you grew up with– tell me about your, um. Who you grew up with, like, parents, aunties, uncles, grandparents, siblings– You had a sister, sounds like. 

I was [inaudible] because I am younger than my siblings. So –

[overlapping] You’re the baby?

Yeah, yes. So my mother, father, and my elder sis– siblings, you know, helped me to grow! [chuckle] Grow up!

Yeah, yeah. Um. And, um– And who else, uh, in your early life, teachers or religious leaders, was there anyone who was really important to you or special to you? Grandparents or anything really, helped mentor you or a childhood hero of any kind?

[00:03:00]

Yes, you know. For those, always, your father is always hero, so. My two and, my brother is also because they were elder than me. And so all these are heroes. Front, front– Was, front of me and my chi– My teachers back home?

Mhm. 

So at least, teachers are the, always– We remember them, you know. As our teachers. Everyone– Is kind of.

Did you have any favorite subjects in school, like– Particular classes you really––

Yes, I [overlapping] always–

[overlapping] Excelled at?

Always liked art and other languages.

Mhm!

So that’s why I did Master’s in others languages, too. So languages is my favorite.

Mhm hmm. Um, and then, coming of age. Like, tell me about any, um, like, friends, social circle stuff. Was it– were you social? Did you have a lot of friends or were you more quiet and to yourself?

Yes, I had a lot of friends and I was very social, very playful–

Mhm.

You could say. So, uh, yeah. I was very social. So many, many friends. Whole class, even, was my friend, and especially towards the– my neighborhood.

Mhm.

So one of them was, uh, you know, deaf, and uh– 

Couldn’t speak? Yeah.

Could not speak. And he was my best friend. And I always, um. I remember now, I always, uh, understand, understood her. 

Huh!

Even her mother sometimes came to me, uh, “Please tell us what she is saying!” [laughs]

Oh, wow!

So I was very near, you know.

Mhm.

With her. So. These are my memories with– her name was Azala.

Azala?

Yeah. And she was very nice and beautiful girl.

Mhm. And that was when you were little, or high school, or? She was little, yeah, when I was little.

[overlapping] A little girl.

She was, uh, our neighbor. 

Yes.

So– That’s why you can say growing in before school–

Yeah.

She was my friend and after that, she, she could not go to school because she cannot– could not hear and she could not speak and, in Pakistan that time, there was no specials schools.

Mhm. 

So she was just there. And sometimes she went with me.

Mhm. 

Just in my class and just part– Stayed with me.

Mhm.

So. Yeah. These are my–

Yeah.

Special memories.

Oh, beautiful. How old were you when you met your, your now husband?

When I met with my husband?

When you, yeah, met your husband, like, fell in love.

Yeaaaah– He was just 22, 23? ‘Cause we married, I married with, um, at my age, 24?

Mhm hmm?

So I met– He, he is my cousin?

Uh huh? Oh, so you knew him your whole life, or?

Yes, whole life! And when, before marriage, we just cousins and he was elder than me and just like. Elder brother like?

Yeah.

You could say? So. But after marriage.

[00:06:11]

And so, did your, um. How was, what is the process of that, like– Was it like, your parents got together and like, were there, steps in cording, did you–

Yes, our marriages– First, I get married?

Yeah.

And then we, fell. [laughs]

And then love, marriage.

Yeah! [laughs]

So, um. And did you, after high school, or you, um– Or, did you then– What did you do after that? Did you work, or did you go to more school, or?

Yes, I went more school after high school. I went, uh, our, uh, college, over, over there. After high school, it, it, it means 10th grade. And after that, 12, and second year and first year that grade. So after that, I went to college, not far from–

Mhm hmm. And what, what did you study?

I go in, um, my first year, psychic, then second year I’m in college, I studied Urdu languages? In special and education? So. With, uh, socialism.

Mhm.

And my major subject was these. And after that, in– My thirteenth grade and fourteenth grade, I studied, uh, fine art for a while. And home economics. So, sewing and all of that.

Mhm.

Cooking and everything. To prepare for my [inaudible].

Mhm.

But I did Master’s M.D. in Urdu languages, so that is totally different chain! [laughs] 

Yeah.

That I want to. So, after that I did, uh. An eart? Eart means educa– Uh, bachelor in education?

Okay.

So. There was that.

So Master’s and a bachelor in education.

Yeah.

And then, um, did you work, did you have kids? What next?

Yes. During my Master’s, I did work. I was in, uh, [inaudible] youth station?

Mhm hmm.

As a presenter? So I did a lot of programs over there, with doctors, with psychiatrists and with lawyers. And some kids programs.

Mhm hmm.

And after marriage, I start, again, after marriage because, uh, I was– I got in a, a Southern areas of Pakistan? And after marriage I went to Northern areas of Pakistan. So. Over there, I started again with radio station. And then I just, uh, read news, news at radio station. And, after that, I started, uh, teaching.

Mhm.

And that’s, army public school. So I charge, um. First year, second year, third.

Oh wow.

In charge of the kids.

Okay. Um. And you said you moved North. Did you live with, is that where your husband’s family’s from?

[00:09:00]

Yes. My husband’s family is in– Northern part. 

So did you live with them? 

Yes. 

Yes. Okay. Um, and then, um, what year did you leave Pakistan? Did you go anywhere else before you arrived here?

Before? No. Just, only–

Straight here. 

Straight here. Yeah.

Straight here. 

No other country.

And you applied with your whole family, your husband and?

Yeah, my husband came here first.

Okay.

And he called, [laughs] you can say– It– he took asylum at airport and they sent him, uh, in detention center for ten months. He spent ten months over there. And that was first time, because we did not know what will happen with us. Because he came here. Just for visit, but, first came here. But that time, I don't know why they did at the airport. They said “you have to deport.” So, he's– that time. He decided that, “certainly, no, I will take asylum.” Because in Pakistan we are empty Muslims and we have some problems over there. So. Then he decided, otherwise he just came here as a visit. Visitor. 

Mhm hmm.

So, he spent ten months over there. And we, we were worried about him in Pakistan. After that, our kids started with, with his kid. And after, uh, when he released, after six months, we are [loud background noise] [inaudible] Over here.

And then you came here. And how old were your kids at that point? 

No, they are turning– Then he, uh, the elder one was 10 year, 9 year and 8 years.

Mhm hmm. 

Yeah.

What has it been like being a mom, um, and seeing your children who, you know, had had eight years or ten years in Pakistan and in that culture, and then seeing them in American culture, like, what is that? 

Not too much difference. Because, uh, every time you can create your own cul– family culture, you can say, so, yeah, not too much different because over there we were, they were, uh, studying in, um, English, medium schools?

Mhm hmm.

So they did not feel anything here.

Mhm.

So same thing [loud background noise] [inaudible]

Yeah. Um, and do you have a, um, a religious community and like a Pakistani community?

Yes.

In this area?

Yes. We have our religious community and some Pakistani community, too. So. That's why maybe we, we could not feel any change here.

Mhm.

Because in our community, we are going every Sunday. Kids have their [inaudible] schools and for a woman too. And for men too. We have many activities every, every week, every Saturday, Sunday. So that's why we were busy over there. [laughs]

Mhm hmm.

So we could not be that change. 

Um. But are you able to, um, is it possible to visit your family or?

[00:12:03]

Not yet? Actually, husband went to visit, but they are in Canada.

Okay.

But not me and kids because I don't have green card, that other, uh, any other travel document.

Oh, okay.

So that's why I cannot move from here.

Okay. So, his family was able to, um, uh–

[overlapping] My family.

Get refugee status. It's your family in Canada. 

Yes, [inaudible], now his family, too. His father and mother, too. Otherwise, my family, my whole family, my brothers and my mother are over there.

Over in Pakistan. 

Are in Canada.

They're in Can– They’re all in Canada. Okay. They’re safe in Canada. Um, let me just look at my, my list. Um, is there anything else you want to say about, um, oh! I guess I'll just ask you this. How did you, um, start working here? 

Yes.

How did you get, get involved?

Yeah, my husband, when my husband released from detention center, Elizabeth detention center, New York. So, he came here because, uh, [inaudible] set and, uh, his, uh, all the, this [inaudible] stuff usually, um, visit to that detention center. And that time they said, “if you need any help, you can come here.” So, my husband came here and met with them. They help a lot that time. So, when we came here, I just, uh, you know, continuously, um, I was coming here. I've met with Wendy. She was my ESL teacher who, English languages teacher. And then Monday, pastor said, “Just call me, we have this [chuckles] program, if you can do this job.” So, I just involve this one.

Do you need–

No, it’s– 

Okay. Um, okay. So, you work a job here. So, I want to know about that. And you also are raising two children and you're also–

Three children. 

Oh, you have three children!

Yeah!

Um, so tell me about, like, everything you juggle and how you, how do you do it all?

Because I love, uh, useful with that. In fact, when I was working as a teacher, as a, a lecturer at that time, kids were small.

[background noise] Mhm.

Then. Now, that's, I will use, too, so I handle everything. [background noise] My home, my parents, my job, very easily. It's not that big. [chuckles]

Not a big deal. Um, what do you do here? Tell me about the market. Like, what’s the–

Yeah, I'm a man– as, I'm working as a manager. So, we have Global Grace Marketplace have, um, many, many inventory products from different countries. And they're also, this is a fair trade. Fair, fair trade mean. Uh, the money is going to direct those hands who are making these things.

Mhm hmm.

Not other third party, or other. So, we are selling here. Is– this is a gift shop, small gifts, type thing. And sometime I'm also making something? Because I, you know, I, I did fine arts.

Mhm hmm.

And I have sewing experience and other things. So, I'm making some dresses and small things like that. So, we are selling here.

So art is part of your, part of your work here as well. Art making.

[00:15:17]

Making and just managing, you can say. 

Yeah.

Or, uh, organize and manage things.

Mhm hmm.

Yeah. I'm ordering online. And then I to see via upload on, on sphere of our website and all that.

Mhm hmm. Um, and what does your husband do? I think you've told me before, but I can't remember. 

Here?

Yeah. 

Or before? 

Either one. Both, I guess. 

So, in Pakistan he was director of eye hospital.

Mhm.

Because he did, um, MVA Finance.

Wow.

And then MSCIR. Uh, in international relations. 

Okay.

And then he's also LLB, pardon me to– He did three things over there. And then he came, he was director of eye international. Eye hospital that is in Northern areas of Pakistan. So after coming here, when he leaves from detention, he got a job in Robert Wood Johnson Hospital.

Wow.

Uh, as a lab assistant. And after that, he did here echocardiography. So that is [inaudible] for heart and. 

Okay.

Yeah. So. He's doing echocardiogram now.

Oh my gosh. And he, did he have to go back to school or get certified or?

Yes. He's been to school for two and a half year.

So, he went to school in Pakistan. Then he came here and had to do it all over again. 

He here, he went to school.

Again.

For an echocardiogram.

Oh, I see. Okay. Okay.

Good job. And with benefits and, yeah. 

Mhm hmm.

Yeah. He did that and, and everything is more differently because he, he, his mind was the finance and like that. And be, because he didn't be in finance. So here, this medical field is very different from that.

Mhm hmm.

But he did what he did. But he did that. 

But he did it. Wow. Um, does he ever talk about the ten months when he was in Elizabeth? 

That was very hard time for him, for us in Pakistan, too. Because once a week he can, he could call only once a week, just only three to five minutes. And every week, we just visit a, a phone call and when bell was ringing. We just ran because this a kids call. It's a very hard time for me, for my kids. Very, very hard time. But no. We are, we are good. Yeah.

[00:17:59]

Mmm. Um, okay. What else did I not ask you? Um, is there anything you miss from home? Food or food, any like particular activities that?

Yes! We've missed a lot of things because, you know, you're, uh. Where you are you born and where you live your life. That, that, that is very hard to leave that place. And those, all the things, especially for food. Yeah. You can put your– any food in your nose, you cannot smell that. No smell, but in Pakistan, every food has a different smell. You can–

Mhm. 

Feel that this is a, this is a main problem for us. Otherwise, everything is good. 

Like flavorless, um–

[overlapping] [inaudible] The things are smell, no smell and flavorless. 

Yeah. They like grow in test tubes or something.

Yeah. They’re not. That's why. She can also, we are really about meat and chicken because over there and taste is totally different.

Yeah, someone was telling me that. Otherwise. Um, do your kids have any favorite recipes that you make do from? 

Everything! [laughs]

[laughs] [overlapping] They eat everything?

Everything. Chicken chow mien and. Every food they like! [laughs]

Um, okay. What else? Is there anything that I, um? Well, are there any, like, particular personal accomplishments you want to share either from? I mean, the radio show is pretty cool, when I learned that about you. That was–

Yes. 

Um, but anything that, like, and you run this organization which we talked about, but any other, like, successes you've encountered along the way that you're particularly proud of?

No, in my life, um, um, I can say “blessed” or “lucky”. Whenever I tried to do job, I found it.

Mhm.

Very quickly. [background noise] And, in whole life, that everything was very smooth for me, for my education and for jobs, anytime I want to, “okay. I will do this job.” And I went over there and, just, I got that. [laughs] Yeah. Yes. That, this is a blessing. I'm lucky for that.

Yeah. Smart and hardworking too, goes into it. I'm sure.

[laughs]

[background noise] Um, how long from when you, when you, when you were living in, um, Northern Pakistan and you decided you needed to leave, how long, how long was it? How did you make that decision as a family? Like, when?

In Northern area? Uh. Because [inaudible], uh, parents and family went to Islamabad, uh, uh, I mean in capital of Pakistan is not Islam. And we were alone over there. So we decided, “Okay, we, we don't want to live here.” Otherwise that isn't, that was not our decision. We just came.

[00:20:59]

And, uh, the lower part of Pakistan in Islamabad, just for a visit and then we came here. After that, this is happening, you know, very suddenly. Then, I took asylum. Then we decided to leave everything from northern India. 

[overlapping] Okay.

Otherwise, we have had house, um. House. We had some, uh, plot space for house over.

Land. 

Land, yeah. So, then, suddenly this is happening very quickly and suddenly, and.

Mhm hmm.

Maybe God want. [laughing] To brought, bring us here at that time.

So you didn't apply for refugee status in that you, you came here and then you did the asylum.

[overlapping] Yes. Yes.

Okay, okay, okay. Um, is there anything you wish had been different about that? Like if there, from your perspective, things about the system here that needed to change? Or services that weren't available that should be. Like, someone I just interviewed was saying, was talking about, like, mental, health care. There wasn't any, like, support in that way, but yeah. 

Everything is, uh, yes, I, everything. I like this whole system, but sometime for jobs? Like, we– So whenever refugee or asylee come here comes, here–

[another voice] Sorry to interrupt again.

Hold on, let me pause this. Cause I'm recording. 

[another voice] ‘Cause I am leaving.

Um, okay. Resume recording. Um, and what were we talking about before we were interrupted? Oh, just like sys– How to improve systems–

Systems. 

Yeah.

Um, I was talking about jobs.

Yeah.

Because people can, cannot, cannot, you can say, get job according to, according to their qualification?

Mhm hmm.

Their experience. 

Mhm hmm.

This is a problem here. Even a doctor, if it comes here, he has first, he has to drive Uber, uh, laboring like that. 

Mhm.

So they cannot get job according to their qualification. 

Right. 

This is a main problem here we faced. My, my husband faced that. When he came here, he was a director in Pakistan. He came and he just, uh, you know, clean small, [inaudible].

Mhm hmm.

And that was a hard time for him. He was mentally depressed that time, “What is this?”

Mhm.

“What I was and what I am now!” Yeah.

Yeah.

So I came here just for these things and he did this whole year. After that, he got that job. 

Mhm hmm.

And that is also just a clerk type job, or just write names. And this is not according to his qualification and his abilities. 

Yeah. 

So this is a problem. 

Yeah.

Being.

Yeah. Yeah. Someone in book club right now, um, the husband was a doctor and the wife was a dentist. 

Dentist, yes.

They know them. 

[00:24:00]

Yes. Yeah. And so they're having to work to not just get a qualification–

Yeah.

Like, okay. You know the skill, but they have to go back to school and everything.

Everything.

Which is expensive in America.

Yes!

Like, really expensive.

Very expensive! [inaudible] with echocardiogram. So that is very expensive!

So, you have to work to have money, to be able to go back to school, but then you don't have time because you're working. 

Yeah.

Sometime he went to, from house at six o'clock in the morning. And he came back at eleven o'clock after school and after Ubering. Because he cannot pay it just for– from this job. Find that is, uh, you know, studies and far, uh, running in the house and kids and everything. That, that was very hard time for us. 

Yeah. [inaudible, overlapping]

But now, it's going slowly, slowly. It's going better because otherwise.

Yeah.

In Pakistan we had three, four cars. Big vehicles, beautiful house. And everything, we left over there. 

Mhm.

And now– It, it is hard. 

Yeah.

And it was that time, actually, I was very depressed. I could feel that he was, you know. But now it’s good. [chuckles]

Yeah. It, you know, that's something I've been hearing a lot in interviews, is just, like, the emotional stress of it all. And if you had any advice to give to people, who've just arrived, what would you–

[overlapping] I, I, last, uh, meeting our, uh, you know, staff development meeting. I had elected over there, and that is just for stress and that, because I went through all those things. And two years ago, when I came and after two or three months, when my honeymoon period, you know!

[laughs]

I left and I was just crying full day, full day, I was in Pakistan! I was lecturer. And that is a totally different life here. I could not do anything. What is this? My life is just product! Stay at home. And I said was also very depressed, but I do what I can do here. I cannot do. We have to go back. We cannot go back to– so we were banned from everywhere.

Mhm.

And I was just crying that time. But after that one day, uh, I got a job from church to that time. I was a health promoter.

Okay.

For refugees and asylees.

Oh, okay.

Then I realized, okay, this is naturally happening with every refugee and asylee who comes here.

[overlapping] Yeah. Yeah.

The same emotional and stress and everything. Then I realized, I said, “Okay.” And when I was going to other families and I was telling that this is happening here and, “How you, how do you know about that?”

Yeah.

This– we are going through with this condition in these days, just for their suggestion and opinion. 

[00:27:01]

Just keep yourself busy. In other words, if you cannot get jobs, just do volunteer.

Mhm.

Just bring yourself out from your house and from desk. That stress. If you can do that speedily, you can recover all these things very quickly. Otherwise, you will stay in that condition. So just do some work, bring out your stress. 

Mhm.

Maybe you can do your gardening. Maybe you can do some artwork, you know, artwork or all these things. You can say, “These are the passes!” You can bring your emotions and stress out–

Yeah.

From yourself. These things are very important.

Mhm.

But, and every refugee and asylee is fixing that.

Yeah.

Ev– Everyone.

Yeah. [background noise] And identity too. It sounds like you're talking about that. Like, I, I was this person here and now who am I?

Yeah. [overlapping, inaudible]

Having to, like, deal with whom, your whole identity here. Mhm.

Um, and your, uh, other siblings or your other relation are far away from you. And. Many, many problems. You are sick. You are alone. You cannot do anything! No one can help you! This, this, you know, thoughts, and these are already transformed then. 

Mhm. Yeah. 

So there’s– [pause] Bring of yourself from this trap as quickly as you can! [laughs]

Mhm. Looking forward. And that's interesting too, like, going out and being with people in commut–

[overlapping] Yes, yes.

‘Cause you've lost your community. And so you need to be around. 

Yeah.

Um, okay. Is there anything I haven't asked you that I should ask you? If you were interviewing you, what would you have asked? You’re radio show person! You know!

Yeah! [laughs]

You do interviews!

I think these are good! [laughs] 

Um.

You asked me many, many things! [laughs]

Um, okay. I have one more. I think it's a good one. 

Mhm hmm. 

What are your hopes for your children in the future? What are your dreams for them? What do you, if–

I, my dreams are, I have big dreams! [laughs] But I don't know. My kids will give them– Reality or not! [laughs] But yes! I want– they will get education. As they can. Every parent wants their kids to become a doctor. And indeed, yet I don't have any, big, like that. If they want to do anything like this, this is up to them. 

Mhm hmm.

I know they are intelligent and they can do everything. 

Mhm hmm.

So, just, they will become a perfect, complete personality. And very useful personality for our country, for our nation, for other peoples, but.

Mhm.

Just, I want this thing. Otherwise they can make– they can become a doctor or an engineer. 

But first of all, they're a strong personality. 

Aw, I love that. That’s beautiful.

I want to see that. [laughs]

Mmm. [knocking on door]

[another voice] Hey–

Okay. That's a good note to end on. Oh, that's so beautiful. Thank you so much for taking this time! Okay. How do I stop–

[00:30:23]