Dameon Stackhouse spent close to twelve years in prison before he was eligible for parole. Prior to being released, Dameon was trying to get a degree or certificate so that he would be able to find a job that could provide for him and his family. Dameon discusses those difficulties, and how his experiences have led him to participate in important advocacy work, including the #1844NoMore campaign.

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TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

New Brunswick, New Jersey

March 25, 2019

Transcription by Gloria Cardona

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Today is Monday, March 25th 12:03pm.  This is Daniel Swern interviewing–

Dameon Stackhouse.  Dameon Marquise Stackhouse.

And so Dameon, um, we can take it right from the beginning.  And if you ever need a stop for a drink of water or anything like that, please feel free.

Okay.  um–so I grew up in Bridgewater.  It’s a little small section called Hobbstown.  Um– two street black communities founded in 1920.  Our parents, gra– great grandparents migrated along with other families from North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida.  And they first built a church in, uh, park and houses and moved different families from the South up to the North.  One of the main reasons that they did that was– school system was already integrated.  Um, there was a lot of work, uh, and less lynching.  So they knew their kids would be able to get a good education and be safer.  Um– I was born 1976.  My mother was 15 years old when she got pregnant, she had me at 16.  Um– she finished high school.  Started working and did the beh– she did a great job.  She raised me well.  I made my own mistakes.  Uh, she provided.  She taught me everything I needed to know.  I just ran the streets.  Because my father’s side ran the streets.  I– he wasn’t involved in my life, so– naturally, you try to connect with what you’re missing.  So, I connected with my family on that side through the interactions of street life.  Didn’t need to.  Didn’t have to.  But gave me that connection.  Every year went to North Carolina, visited family during the summer.  So my summer vacations consisted of at least a week and a half to two weeks in North Carolina in our roots.  Going to the well, pumping the water, heating it up on the stove (laughs) for your bath and, uh, chicken coups and– rattlesnakes that you had to make sure didn’t bite you, and a whole lot of cats running around the house.  It was really, you know, country.  But it was really nice, you know.  You enjoyed yourself. Um–  the Bridgewater school system was good.  It’s like– I was well educated–  All through elementary school and through high school, there wasn’t a whole lot of racism; even though there’s always racism.  Teachers, uh, took extra pride in making sure that they educated the black man well.  I wasn’t the smartest, but I wasn’t, you know, in need of special attention– aside from just making sure that I was getting what was going on and comfortable with different situations.  I, um, became a football star, early, in Pop Warner.  So, around 9 or 10 years old, I realized I had a gift, they realized I had a gift, and started really exploring playing football a lot.  So that became a big part of who I am, and what drove me.  I was nicknamed “Truck,” because I ran everybody over.  But I was also– once– once I got a full head of steam, you couldn’t catch me either, 'cause I could run fast.  I was big, so–  By the eighth grade, seventh/eighth grade, I was about 210 pounds.  um, couldn’t play Pop Warner anymore because I was too heavy.  But I practiced, and, um, just couldn’t play in the games.  Which I– it– it was upsetting, but I understood (laughs) that, you know, this is what’s happening because I was playing on the– the– the midgets.  The– the largest team when I was in like sixth grade, so I– I knew that it was eventually going to happen but–  When I got to high school, as a freshman, I actually, you know, I played like almost on every– I played on every team.  So I– I played freshman, I played J.V. and I played on the varsity team.  I lettered as a freshman.  So I was the first person to letter since my cousin Sherman back in the early 70’s, from the same town, Hobbstown.  And they stopped allowing freshmans to play because my cousin Sherman was paralyzed as a freshman playing varsity football.  So they really stopped allowing freshman to play 'cause they didn’t know 

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what was going to happen.  And they– they didn’t want you to work towards it, but since they had worked with me during middle school, and I knew, you know, what was going on, and I had been practicing with, you know, everybody, I was allowed to play.  So, I think that was the beginning of– (long pause, then laugh) –my drug and alcohol addiction.  Yeah, that was the beginning.  Because I was a freshman, and as a freshman, you normally don’t get invited to senior parties (laughs) 'cause you’re a freshman.  But I was a freshman that was playing varsity.  So everybody that’s on varsity is always at the parties.  And Bridgewater is like, really affluent, so they had a whole lot of money, and a whole lot a drugs, and a whole lot of alcohol.  At (laughs) parents going on vacation for like two weeks at a time, and we’re just taking over the houses– and– kegs everywhere, and move the furniture and just party.  So, I’m drinking, smoking weed, at that age, it’s just– and females are all over.  So this didn’t– School work didn’t really make too much of a difference.  I didn’t have to work too hard to get C’s, so I didn’t work too hard (laughs).  Shoot, because as long as you got a C you’re fine.  Um– My senior year my grades dropped below, uh, 2.0.  So I had taken the SAT’s, I had gotten over the 750 that you need to get a scholarship.  Had scholarship offers from:  Rutgers, Penn State, North Western and Syracuse.  And all of the scholarships were pulled.  They just– grade point average under a 2.0, we can’t take you.  Um, they coulda did the Prop 48, but that’s just extra money.  So they pulled the scholarships, and I went to Montclair State University 'cause they didn’t care about my grades.  They just wanted me to play.  So I went to Montclair State in ’94 when I graduated, after I graduated from the high school at Bridgewater, and I continued to party.  (laughs)  So Montclair State, in 1994, was probably one of the biggest party schools in New Jersey.  So I made sure I was involved in almost every single party, every single day.  Um– and I had a good time.  I went to football practice, I went to a couple of classes, and um, the coach wanted to red shirt me because he wanted to use me for another extra year.  But he allowed me to play under somebody else’s name.  So I had a different number, it was really frustrating to me because you won’t allow me to play as myself, and then you won’t allow me to play the position that I, naturally play.  So he had me playing in other positions.  I got frustrated.  Grades weren’t good 'cause I wasn’t going to class, so, I just dropped out.  I was– at this point, I’m drinking, smoking– this is like a norm, almost everyday.  Start running the streets even heavier once I, you know, came home.  You know–  Still had a nice, what you would call, “a good reputation,” in town, so I was still a star.  I could go anywhere and do anything I wanted.  With anybody I wanted– or the majority of individuals.  And I did.  So I continued to have a good time and did things I wasn’t supposed to, so–  As a local drug dealer– never got caught selling drugs. (laughs)  Never really touched them, except when I went to New York to go pick ‘em up.  Then I’d bring ‘em back and– I was– I was a great entrepreneur, in the sense that I knew what to do and how to do it.  And then was smart enough not to do it.  Had other people do it.  Collect the money.  Ah, police hated me for that.  So they– they couldn’t catch me.  Ever.  They had secret indictments on everyone around me.  This was a time when a– I don’t know if you remember– it was a prosecutor named Bissell.  So Bissell was a really– he’s corrupt.  Somerset County prosecutor.  And he, um, he’d have secret indictments on basically anybody and everybody that was out in the streets.  And he had a couple indictments on people that, you know, were real close to me.  And um– but he couldn’t catch me  'cause whenever something was going on, I never, I– I never carried anything on me.  And I would never have a lot of money on me because it just didn’t make any sense; unless I was picking it up.  And if I was picking it up, I was moving it to where it needed to be and I just put it 

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down.  And, um, when the secret indictments came down on a lot of people, especially my close ones, we just sent them away.  So they went on the run, after we bailed them out, and um– it’s almost, like I said, “Okay, let me just stop.”  And I think that made him even madder.  Because no one just stops selling drugs when you’re doing well.  You don’t just get out.  You just, but, I just kinda stopped.  And that kinda pissed him off.  And then it turned around, Bissell is corrupt, and all of the secret indictments came out that he was doing it the wrong way, and he was placing– he was planting stuff on people– so, they indicted him.  And the prosecutor ran and, may he rest in peace, he committed suicide out in the West.  So I know it, it hurt his family and, and if this ever gets told, I want them to know that I, you know, I do– I do feel for them, because I’m pretty sure he thought he was doing what he was supposed to, even though he was doing it the wrong way.  You know, and the family has to deal with the fact that he took his life.  So, you know, um, around that time I– I lost my brother.  One a– his girlfriend– so this was ’98 when my brother was– was killed.  And um– he had a girlfriend that said she had a– she had gotten pregnant by him and she was having his baby.  He didn’t know if it was his, but he was– started dating someone else.  And then, the ex-girlfriend came to their apartment, his girlfriend went to go get a knife 'cause they were slashing her tires.  And when she went to go get the knife, he went to go stop her, and she turned around and she stabbed him, and he died.  So, when I had lost him, this is when I met my– my now wife.  I’ve known her for all my life, so it’s like 5 years old, I told her I was going to marry her.  She’s like four years older than me, so– she’s like, “Get away from me little boy.” (laughs) At five.  But throughout the years we’ve grown, our families were really close.  Her mom and my mom worked together at a company called Olympia.  So I’d go over her house when my mom went over there.  Her and my god sister are like best friends, so they had seen me and their like, “Yo, what are you doing?”  I’m like, you know, “Just chillin.’’  “Like, nah, you need to get off the street right now.”  Said, “I’m not doing nothing.”  “So, you don’t look like you’re up to nothing?”  And they were right.  I was smoking dust, I was messed up, I was upset about my brother, you know, and– So they– they took me out to dinner and, uh, we talked.  And then, Kelly, who’s my wife now, was throwing a party. She invited me to come to the party and I was like, “Aight.”  So, around this time, I was still selling a little, but I wasn’t touching anything still, so–  I had money on the streets and doing, you know, I was doing okay.  Financially, I didn’t worry about anything.  I was smart, so I always had a job.  So I’d be working somewhere (laughs) during– during the day, and then selling at night.  I– I– I really understood how the system worked, so I made sure I stayed intact 'cause if they pull you over, and you have money on you, if you don’t have a check stub to prove where you got the money from, it’s automatically drug money.  Especially if they’re already thinking that you’re a drug dealer.  So, I made sure I always had a check stub from somewhere.  Even though I didn’t really need it for that reason.  And then, um, she told me, like, after the party we started talking, she’s like, “If you, uh, plan on being around me and my son–” she had my– my stepson– my son was three years old at the time.  She’s like, “You can’t, you can’t be involved in nothing on the streets, selling drugs or anything.  So, if you plan on being around, it gotta go.”  So I, that’s when I stopped.  Just let it go.  Left money on the street, like, “What are you doing?”  Said, I don’t care.  She said she didn’t care if I had any money.  I’m a see–  So I got a job – another job working with some kids.  Running– so I was working at Creative Child Learning Center.  And I got the first check, after two weeks, and it was like two hundred and ninety dollars after taxes.  And I never really paid attention to the money 'cause I always had money.  So when I realized it, you 

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really don’t get paid.  I was like, “What the hell am I supposed to do with this?  This two weeks?!” (laughs) So, she’s like, “Uh, here’s the PSE&G bill.  Pay that.  That’s it.”  Said, “Really?”  It’s like $72.  “That’s all you want?”  “Ah– I could deal with you.”  So that’s when, you know, I left the streets completely alone, as far as selling drugs or anything. But I was still getting high. (chuckles)  So the drugs and alcohol problem was ramped now.  I'm drinking every day. I'm getting high, but– I’m working!  Family life, everything is good.  Got a second job.  So I started working at, uh, Lone Star Steakhouse.  I’m cooking, making a little bit better money.  um, I left the Creative Child Learning Center 'cause they really were paying that much, but it was a passion.  So, I got another job wanting, I mean, um, Lechters Housewares.  With– when I was working with Lonestar and I was an associate for like maybe three months, and they were hiring for an assistant manager.  So I applied for the assistant manager position, I got it.  And now I'm an assistant manager and I'm working at Lonestar and I'm making decent money now.  Um – but then, I got an opportunity to work with create, uh, Catholic Charities.  So I was running before and after school programs with them.  And actually working at Catholic Charities was about the same amount that I was making my both jobs.  So, I left both of them and just started running before and after school programs, and had seventy kids that all enrolled in Hillsborough and it was good.  And I realized, “Alright, this is what I need to be doing.”  So, I ended up becoming a certified lifeguard for the Martin Luther King Youth Center that, 'cause I was running summer programs for them.  Um, I was a Pop Warner coach.  So I was coaching Pop Warner so I got back in the football.  You know, I love football.  So I had to somehow get that back in.  I was coaching my son.  Their team went undefeated and everybody on the team scored.  They couldn't– the parents couldn't understand how you allowed everybody on the team to score.  'Cause at that age you can, it doesn't matter what your number is, you can put them in the back field.  But I taught these kids how to play as a team and everybody on the team got a chance to score a touchdown, it was amazing. (laughs)  But I'm still drinking and drugging and this is where, you know, the problem really started to, you know, take shape.  Um– we wanted to buy a house and sometimes money just– you think you're making enough, but then you realize you're really not making enough to do what you wanna do.  So Catholic Charities wasn't paying me enough to actually get a mortgage.  I got into the Carpenters Union.  So now I'm union making even better money.  I'm an apprentice, but I'm going through the process knowing that I'll get to be a journeyman, and be, and make, hmn, forty, $42 an hour once I become a journeyman.  'Cause I was making like $22 during the first year.  An hour.  And um– certified lifeguard– but I'm still getting high.  So, I'm Poppin oxycontin's–  Like, I had a friend she had cancer.  So, I go to the pharmacy and pick up her– her prescription and she always gave me like twenty-five pills a week.  Um– I would basically be taking all of the pills, but some of them I would, to friends I’d, you know, sell ‘em $20, $25 a pill just 'cause.  Extra money, I'm still getting high– so I’m smoking coke, popping pills, drinking– that's just extra money to feed my addiction without my fiance knowing that I'm pulling money from my check to do all these different things.  So she had no clue I was getting high and drunk.  Drunk, yes!  High, no.  Other than marijuana.  So I'm smoking weed, I'm poppin’ pills, I'm smoking coke, I'm sniffing dope, I'm out of control. 

One day in 2004 we're supposed to go to one of my friends' houses. I'm meeting somebody because one of our friends wanted me to lifeguard some pools in Piscataway.  So I need to know exactly where the pools were, how long he wants me to be there, certain days of the week– I'm 

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in the union so I'm working from like 7 to 2 and I'm finished.  So I had time in the evening, it’s extra money– getting high, so I need extra money that I can play with.  And we go to our friends house in Summerville to, um– to meet and to get high and drunk.  'Cause it's the NBA Playoffs; June 13th 2004 and the Lakers are in the playoffs.  So it’s a good cover (laughs) to go get high and to go get drunk.  So, I go out, um–  we– drink about a half, drink a half a fifth of Jack Daniels.  Just me and one of my friends.  Drinking beer– at least twelve by now.  I woke up that morning, I smoked a blunt with my– I spoke to blunt (laughs) Um, popped a oxycontin, popped a muscle relaxer.  By 12 o’clock I’m popping another oxycontin, another muscle relaxer– ya see, I’m balancing it.  Everything is always a balance.  So by eight o’clock I want some coke now.  So I'm smoking coke, but if I’m smoking coke, I need some dope.  'Cause I don’t want to pop an oxycontin, it’s not gon’ react as fast as I need it to, and need to balance it, so I get a couple bags of dope.  Sniffing, smoking–  Uh, when I finally decide to go home, I’m driving down 206, and I remember someone cutting me off and the next thing I remember is (small burp) Excuse me–  I'm in the backseat of a police car, handcuffed and a police car is in front of me is on fire.  And an SUV is upside down.  And I’m like, “What the hell is going on?!”  And an officer is yelling at me, “You know what you did!  You know what you did!”  And I'm like, “I don't know what the hell is going on right now.”  So– I get locked up, end up in the county.  The next morning they dropped a newspaper off, on, you know, in– in the cell.  Then I see–  I robbed somebody, I ran in a house, and I crash head-on into the police.  Luckily they got the police officer out before the police car exploded.  So– (slurred) this just– when I went through the transcripts a couple months later and I'm looking at everything that happened, 'cause I really don't recall what happened, and you have little blurry visions of what happened because of what I read–  But I cut off, and I followed the young man home, I park my car I ran into his driveway and I took his wallet.  I ran from his car and got back into my car–  I went around the corner and crashed my car into a tree.  But the car was still running, so I drove a little bit down the street and parked on the street; started knocking on doors and asking for help.  Nobody's answering their doors– I think I knocked on like two or three doors, and then ended up in the backyard of a house 'cause it was sitting forward.  So as I'm going along the houses, then there’s a house that’s sitting forward, the next house over is the back door and it was open.  So I went in.

And the lady came and she's like, “Aaahhh!!!”

I said, “I need help.”

And she's like, “When he said he needed help I calmed down.  My dog that was barking at his le– at his feet laid down and I asked him what he needed.  He said he needs a car and money.  So I took him into the kitchen and I gave him some money and I told him the keys were in the car outside the garage.  Then he looked at me strange.  So I took his hand and I walked him through the house and out the garage, I opened the garage door, and I told him the keys are in the car.  He went to the car, he looked, and the keys were in there, he jumped in, he started the car, he backed right into the tree, he t– turned around, and went across the grass, and he shot down the street and then I heard a ‘BOOM’!”

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That was me crashing head-on into the police car that was coming down the street 'cause I was knocking on doors and somebody called the police.  Now– from the time that– I robbed the young man in his driveway and he called the police, to the time that I crashed head-on into the police car and they took me out of the upside down SUV that I took from the woman, took exactly seven minutes.  From that police car, the– the police, the first phone call from the young man, to when they pulled me out of the SUV– and they have the time in it; it's all in the transcript – it was seven minutes.  

And that's one of the reasons like– so I'm gonna write a book, called Seven Minutes.  And it's– it’s about, you know, it’s gonna be about my life but it's also about drugs and alcohol.  And how, using drugs and alcohol and in seven minutes your whole life can change.  Because I– I was doing fairly well.  I was a union carpenter, we had just closed on the house, the condo, that we have.  To this day my– my wife maintained it and March 15th was actually fifteen years that we've had the condo from 2004.  So 2004, March 15th 2004, was when we closed.  Not even three months later all of this happened and I was sentenced to fourteen years with 85%.  Mirror.  No Early Release Act.  And– I didn't understand the system until I was incarcerated.  I was running from the system, running around the system (coughs) but I didn't really fully understand the system.  So I had a friend named Ena, Ena Fox.  And she knew me, she knew Kelly, she always asked us to come to a democratic, meeting and they have policies that were going forth and you need to be involved in everything that’s going on or–

“Are you voting?”

I said, “I’m votin’. I mean I'm registered to vote so, you know, I'm doing my part.” (coughs) And uh– I didn't really understand it.  Until I was locked up.  I’m gonna take some water. (drinks water)

So– (clears throat)– nine, um–(laughs) 

So–(clears throat) fourteen years with a 85%, no early release, I didn't understand what it meant.  So, no early release means you will do 85% of the time that you're sentenced to.  So for me fourteen years meant (clears throat) eleven years, eleven months– (coughs) (clears throat) (laughs)– So– (coughs)– it's eleven years eleven months before you're eligible for parole– And then, you still have to do three years of parole, if it's a second degree, and five years of parole if it’s a first-degree.  So originally they charged me with a first-degree armed robbery for the young man.  There was no weapon.  There was no threat of a weapon.  So that's the reason I went to trial.  Because, in the transcripts it never said  I had a weapon, I used a weapon, or threatened to use a weapon.  So, while I was in the county for two and a half years waiting to go to trial, I'm doing, I'm reading everything.  I'm being my own attorney.  So, I'm looking for cases to try and help me ‘cause I'm like this– they're offering me twenty years with 85%.  Um, that's eight and a half, eight and a half, that’s sixteen, that’s seventeen years before I even be eligible for parole.  And because there's a first degree, that's five more years on top of the seventeen years; which puts that twenty-two years on a twenty-year sentence.  

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If you do the math; which I've been doing for years, they're giving out illegal sentences to anybody that's doing at 85% in New Jersey.  But they use it, because it's been put in the law, it's actually legal.  Because people voted on this and they're not changing it.  So when Ena was asking me to come to the rallies, and the Democratic party did, that was one of the issues.  This “No Early Release Act” with Governor Christie.  Christie Whitman.  That was being passed and I didn't want to get involved 'cause I– I didn't have time.  You know, and this is what happens;  You don't have time, and then something happens, and you're involved.  Same with her.  She passed it, her daughter ended up getting a vehicular homicide, and she ended up with the “No Early Release Act.”  And you couldn't change it because once it’s enacted you can't change it.  So her daughter had to do 85% time and end up doing the parole on that also.  So it’s– it was a double-edged sword for her because she thought she was doing something and then she realized, “Oh no, this law is not right!”  So, I end up doing eleven years, eleven months and being released in May 2016 to three years of parole because the jury downgraded the first degree to a second degree.  So the judge took the two second degree robberies because I wasn't, I didn't have any, really, I ain’t have a criminal record.  They can never catch me.  He took the two second degrees and gave me a seven and a seven, and it was his discretion, and he ran them consecutive.  Instead of running them together, he– he made them run consecutive to give me fourteen years, which normally shouldn't happen, but as we're seeing the way the criminal justice system is, we always get more time.  And if there’s a way to give black or brown more time, you will.  I was a union carpenter, certified lifeguard, Pop Warner coach, member of the community– other than the drug– drugs and alcohol– that was productive.  Yet you still sentence me and said that I need to be deterred from society.  But it goes back to when I was selling drugs, they knew and couldn’t catch me, in the same town.  Same prosecutor's office– It goes back to the history of, “We know who you were and we're still going to charge you with crimes that you didn't commit.”   So, that's what happens–  They took that opportunity and they gave me that amount of time.  So when I was released in May, for 2016, they gave me the three years of parole.  But remember there’s two sevens and for each Nira you’re supposed to get a separate sentence of parole.  So, the judge at the time he– he actually did me a favor and he ran the– the parole concurrent.  So instead of six years of parole he gave me three years of parole.  Um, since I came home, in May 2016, I was already taking college-level courses because NJ Step program came into Rahway and East Jersey State Prison 2013.  So I was taking college-level courses– working towards an associate's degree, but I wasn't going to be able to finish.  I had a lot of credits from Project Inside from Union County Community College, but then they lost the funding, so I had business courses, small business management, um, accounting credits that I was able to transfer over.  And I matriculated right onto Rutgers campus.  So I come in the Fall of 2016, and I'm a Rutgers student at 40 years old, and I start working to change a lot of what I had been– so I noticed all of the different issues with the Nira, and the voting, and it became like second nature.  It’s a passion for me to get the word out.  And it's just like– this is an opportunity for me to get an education and get my foot in the door.  Because at 40 years old, I’m 42 now, after doing eleven years, eleven months, for robbery, nobody's really trying to hear what you're saying.  They barely want to give you a job cooking, cleaning bathrooms; depending on where you cleaning the bathroom at.  Um–  

My grades have been almost straight A's.  I have a 3.89 right now.  I had the opportunity to start working with, um, with Princeton as an intern the Fall of 2000– no, the summer of 17.  So the 

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second summer that I was home I interned with Princeton on the campus in a biomolecular physics department with Doctor Cary.  They needed to bring more stem courses into the prisons and who better than to help, you know, figure out how to bring more stem courses into the prisons but someone that's been in prison and is in school.  So, gave me an opportunity and, you know, part of my resume at that point was I came home and jump straight into politics.  So I'm campaigning for Hillary (laughs) trying to stop this catastrophe that we're dealing with right now–(laughs).  And, uh, I never forget a– a method the polling, well, the campaign center in Princeton, and I'm leaving after calling people for like an hour, two hours and someone jokingly was like,

“Alright so who you voting for?”

(laughs) And I’m like, “I can't vote.”

They’re like, “Huh?”

I said, “I'm on parole.  I’m not allowed to vote.”

And they– they looked at me and I could tell what they were saying before they said anything and they were like,

“So why are you here?”

And before they could say it I was just like, “I'm here because if I can't vote I need to get as many people out to vote as possible.  And if I can get just one person that wasn't going to vote then that means that I've covered myself.  And everybody else after that is a bonus because I gave away my right to vote when I committed the crime, but they've taken away my right because of my crime and that's just not fair.”  I said, “They still take my taxes.” (laughs)

And they looked at me like, “This guy is– is telling the truth.”

So yeah, they still take my taxes but I can't vote.  I can’t tell you where I want you to put my money.  Can't tell you I want you to allocate it towards, uh, the youth programs in the area, to the schools where they're still reading books from– 2007; where Cory Booker was the mayor of Newark.  Kids are still reading those textbooks learning that Cory Booker's the mayor of Newark, as he's a senator for New Jersey and running for president.  But that's the politics that they're still teaching in certain schools because those are the books that they’re still getting.  It’s like there’s backwards.  And I can’t tell you that you need to spend my money on getting these kids new books 'cause I can't vote.  So it’s like here we go–  This is what we gon’ do–  We gon’ start working towards getting this vote back.  And I was approached about S2100, restoring the voting rights for everyone whether they're incarcerated on parole or probation.  And we been running hard on it.  Just trying to get the word out, going to the Senate testifying–  Because if we continue to allow it to happen, it'll never change.  And not too many people realize what's happening.  Like, you have over 90,000 individuals that are on parole or probation in New Jersey that can't vote.  Then you have all of their family members that don't vote 'cause they don't really trust the system.  And now you just have elected officials that went by default.  And 

(00:46:15) 

they’re pa– they’re passing policy that never gonna bring funds to you to help.  Ever.  Because they not thinking about you, don't care about you being, you don't care about what's happening because you're not voting.  Um, so that’s one of my major goals right now.  To get that out.  Make sure that more than enough people are voting. I helped campaign with Mayor K. Hill, um, over this past Fall to get him elected, and, you know, might not agree with everything that he's– he's doing, but it's better than who he was running against.  You know and– and it’s sad that we’re picking against the lesser evils, not say that K. Hill’s evil, but I– I look at certain parts of New Brunswick and I'm like, “How is that still possible?”  And you turn the corner and it's like you just, you stepped into sa– suburbia.  It’s gentrified.  But then you go three blocks away and it’s terrifying for individuals if you don't know how to deal with this environment. I'm working with kids at the Youth Advocate Program here in New Brunswick and these kids don't have.  How?  How’s that possible?  With all of the money that you get off a parking tickets (laughs) in New Brunswick, how don't you have money to take care of the kids and these families that need it?  Like it– it doesn't make sense, but if you're not voting you're not telling them where to put the money.  Um, what else is going on?  (laughs)  Uh, let’s see–

How far back do you– well-

Well, I wanted to actually visit a couple of things you mentioned earlier–  Um, and I'd love to talk, um, about your relationships with your– your mother, father and brother since we have a little bit of time.

(chuckles) My father let’s– let’s go to this one (chuckles) My father, he gave me a– a, um, a plastic Hot Wheels track when I was like maybe 7 or 8, Christmas gift, and when he died he gave me a 1979 [unclear], it’s an old-fashioned car he left that to me, the only two things that I can honestly say my father gave me. He was in and out of jail, he had a whole lot of kids, my brothers and sisters and we became close over the years, um, me and my brother Chris, before he was killed, were just really getting close 'cause I'm the oldest and it's my– my sister Sherika and then Chris, and Chris is the oldest out of– so my father had five women with children, and one of them had five of the kids, and Chris is the oldest of the five that Joyce had, and we were just getting really close and starting in the bond when he was taken away, so, we didn't grow up together, we knew each other we damn near– we damn near look like twins except I was just like maybe twenty pounds bigger. There's one time that (chuckles) I was walking– I was walking through Summerville, and the cops pulled over, and like, “Get up against the car!” Like, I got nothing on me, I never walk around with anything on me so, “Why would ya’ll do this, ya’ll know I don’t carry nothin’ on me.” So they handcuffed me throw me in the car, never said anything, just get up against the car. So we get– we in the car– I’m in the car, get to the police station, they take me out, they take the handcuffs off, they’d already taken my wallet out, they look at the ID– they’re like, “Dameon?”

(00:51:38)

“Yeah”

“I thought you were Chris! Wait you’re not Chris?”

I’m like, “No.”

“So why didn’t you say anything?”

I said, “You ain’t ask me. You just locked me up”

“Oh you know who Chris is?”

I said, “I don’t know what you’re talking about, my ID says Dameon, Dameon Stackhouse. I don’t know who you looking for, you never told me, you just told me to get up against the car, I’m doing what you told me officer.”

“Oh, ah, you can leave.”

“You sure? I don’t want any problems.” (laughs)

You know I’m being a little asshole, I’m– I’m been playing it.

“Aiight, Imma leave, are you sure? You don’t want me?”

So I leave, I get outside, I'm on the phone, “What did you do?”

He’s like, “Whatchu talkin’ about?”

I was like, “Yeah, they picked me up, they thought I was you, and I ain’t say anything so they took me all the way to the station, and until the see my ID and realize that I was not you. That’s when they let me go. So what did you do, 'cause they lookin’ for you?”

He’s like “I– I– I’m over here, come get me.” (laughs)

So I went, got my car, went got ‘em, we sat down, we talked. 

I said, “Aiight you need to go– you need to go turn yourself in right now, it ain’t nothing but a fine.” 

(00:53:13)

So we payed the fine, 'cause you can't have them picking you up and then something else happened, 'cause something else is going on. 

So, that's how– how much alike we look, (laughs)  that they couldn't tell, that we literally could be mistaken for twins. Um, my mother, she's a wonderful woman. She's about 5 foot 1, 5 foot 2, she’s, I would say it, you know, the black community, you know, what hot yellow mean? No, you know what light skin means? Aiight so she's light skin, she has red hair, and freckles, so, a lot of times, unless you look directly at us, when we were sitting next to each other you wouldn't know that she's my mom until, you start looking at our features and you’re like, “Oh, you guys look alike, you look exactly,” and then you look at my father and you’re like, “Wait, you look just like him too, he spit you out.” 

“Well, make up your mind, which one is it? Do I look like my mother, or do I look like my father, and I look like both of them.” 

Um, she refused to go on welfare, she’s never accepted any assistance from the time when she was 15 years old, when she was pregnant with me. She worked, ptsh, hard. Full time job, part-time job at the same time to provide everything that I needed, not everything that I wanted, but everything I needed now, and she showed me what love is, it’s one of those, “Ah, now I really understand, you know, what you were doing, when you were doing, what you were doing.” 

'Cause I sometimes couldn't see it, like, why are you like this, why, but she was– she was raising me, she was teaching me, “This is how you’re supposed to interact with the world.” You know, one thing she always told me, “Dameon, you're big, you’re black (in a whisper) you don’t need to  speak  loud, when you speak everyone will listen. If you speak loud, it might not go over too well.” Like. I didn't understand what the hell she's talking about. I’m like, “What are you talking about?” And then I got out, as a teenager, and then I realized what happens if you speak loud as a big, black male. It’s not good, it’s dangerous, but if you speak softly, everybody hears you, and you’re not a threat. I said okay, listen don’t talk (chuckles). So, she's worked with pharmaceutical companies. She was actually, I think, the Vice President of, like, Santa Fe or some type of pharmaceutical company in Bridgewater, up until last year she retired. And, you know, she’s just 58 but she was able to retire and now she’s starting to travel, homeowner, she did well for herself, you know, I’m proud of her, you know, she coulda– she coulda got rid of me (chuckles)  15, ‘76 or ‘75 at the time, she coulda easily got rid of me, we wouldn’t be having this conversation (laughs). 

(00:57:44)

You know, but she decided to, you know, be a single parent. She knew my father wasn’t gonna be around, my grandfather wouldn’t have allowed them– I think that’s what  happened too, my mother's father wanted to kill my father so he couldn't come around, because, my uncle's, my– my– my– my father's brothers and I– and my grandfather on my brother’s side, my father’s father, they all came around, I knew them, but my father he did not come around, every now and then he might sneak into town, I’d jump in the car with him, he let me drive, he’d get in trouble later with my mom 'cause I tell my mom, “He let me drive!” (laughs)

“I told you not to tell her, why would you tell her!”

“I don’t know”

That's what you do, you tell. My mom asked me, “Where you been?” 

“Seeing my dad!” 

“Did he get you anything?”

“Nah, he let me drive!”  (laughs and claps) Oh man, yeah, wow. 

That’s my mother. My father. My brother.

And Sherika?

You want me to throw in all the siblings?

Oh, you don’t– if you don’t have to throw all of them if you don’t want to.

Alright so Sherika’s the next in line. I was born in June, Sherika was born September.

So, let me stop at you, what’s your mother’s name?

Kathy - Kathleen, K-A-T-H-E-L-E-E-N, Katheleen, nobody says it right, nobody spells it right, it’s different. (chuckles)

And is– is ShErika your mother’s daughter or she’s–

I’m my mother’s only child. 

Ah, got you.

Sherika, so it’s me, Sherika, Chris, then Falika, then Marquis, Jerome, Jamal, Je– no, Jerome– Jerome, Tatyana, Jemar and Jemanda. Now, if you hear all of those names, there’s five mothers, so it’s my mother Kathy,  I want to say Sherika’s mom, I can’t remember her mom's name, Sherika’s next, than it’s Jay’s: that’s Chris’s mom, but– and then in between it’s Phyllis, and then Tiana's mom, Tammy. Now, the kids are in between. So it’s me and Sherika, boom. But then there’s Chris, and in between Chris, there’s Falika but then after Chri– after Falika, Jerome, after 

(01:00:58)

Jerome, Tatyana, then go back to Jemar and Yolanda and they're all with the same woman in the middle. So the one in the middle just, and she’s a lovely woman, but she– she allowed my father to just do too much in between everything, like c’mon, this guy’s having kids all over the place, and then he comes back and he’s with you and you just, keep lettin’ him do it. You still love him, I mean I know he good– He’s a handsome guy but damn, how do you let, (exhales) alright, don’t get mad at me, if ya’ll hear this somewhere, but yeah. So it’s a lot of us and Sherika. So, the crazy part was, I didn’t meet Sherika until our father’s funeral in ‘94.

I had just turned 18 and she had just turned 17, 'cause it happened in June, ‘94. Like I said, we're only a couple months apart so right after my mother he was with somebody else and got her pregnant, but I never knew Sherika until my father's funeral. That was– was the first time I met her. I think the second time I seen her, shoot– I want to say it was at Chris's funeral in ‘98, and then the next time I seen her was at my wedding in 2017– now we're close, now, and we'd– since I've been home, we've been communicating, we got Facebook and stuff now, so everything is, you know social media, able to connect, but we never really had– you weren’t given that luxury of actually knowing each other and communicating, especially back then, you didn't have cell phones, you had house phones, you know, if had a cell phone it was that flip, and– and just nobody really had the money [inaudible] unless you were doing what I was doing, which means you can only contact (chuckles) certain few people 'cause everybody didn’t have no cellphone. Um, Me and Felika are really close, 'cause she lived right in the next town over and I knew her mom, and, yeah, yeah, and all my other brothers and sisters were close. I’m the biggest, I’m the oldest, I’m the big bro, but we're all dysfunctional, how could you not be. (Laughs) It’s– It’s like how do you not end up being off a little bit, when you're raised like that, that's like– it’s just not normal, forget what society says about how a family’s supposed to be, and you’re supposed to have this, and you’re supposed to have that. I understand that. But, to know how you got siblings all over the place and none of us, even the ones that lived in the house with them, really had him, because he was always out doing something he was an addict, he died of AIDS, 'cause he was shooting heroin, during that– that era when AIDS was running rapid because of the heroin epidemic, late 80’s going into the early 90s. Like the heroin epidemic now, but it just hit– hit another community, so now, there’s– there’s help. But this is what they were dealing with inside the house, so I don't know if it was good for me not to have him in the house, or if it was bad for me to have him in the house, either way it didn't work. We’re all messed up, we all got abandonment issues (chuckles). Oh man, they all lookin’ at me like, you laughing about this, but this is some serious stuff! (laughs). It’s my reality, that’s one of the reasons why I’m minoring in psychology  and I’m a social worker because I understand, I'm empathetic to what people are going through, and I can see it, like, I know why you're upset, I know how to get you some help, I had to get it for myself, you know. 

Can you talk a little bit about that, um, the help that– going after that help that you needed um, becoming sober, that process for you?

Ah, becoming sober. So, I would say mine, my sobriety came almost like a spiritual awakening. I grew up in the church. I knew right from wrong. I was in church almost every day of the week, when I was growing up, until I was like 12, and then I had the option of going or not going.

(01:07:03)

But I was in the county. Um, I was a football star, so. Officers that were in there, I hope they don’t look back at the days and the times and whatever. But, I went to school with some football team, Pop Warner coaches, they were officers, so, friends, officers they knew me to be a good guy even though I did some bad things, a couple of them knew I still got high, or they– they got high. 

“What do you need?”

“What do I need? I need some– so, some weed, I need some pills, I need some dope.”

You can bring in some liquor in a water bottle if you feel comfortable, everything I ask for still came in. So, I'm still in the county, still getting high, still getting drunk, and I'm sitting there one day, and I'm playing chess with one of my friends and, that I made in the county, we’re friends now.  We’re still friends now, today though, so like even after all of that time, I’m still in contact with, uh, Mr. Pittman. And um, we had been going back and forth to church, 'cause they have a church service, so I’m in the church, but still doing the same thing, going to church in– inside the jail and they comin’ out and I’m getting high and I’m getting drunk. And he said, “Why you doin’ that to your body? You know that’s his temple right?”

And I was like, “Yeah, I know.”

And I went to the cell that night, I'm high, and all I heard was, “You do know that's why you're here right?” And I'm like, “What?”

“You're locked up because you're an addict. You do realize that's why you're here right.”

And I'm looking at the walls like, “What the– Alright God I hear you, I hear you.”

And I stopped. That was the day. Never used again, never smoked a cigarette again, no liquor, nothing. And I had plenty of opportunity, while I was still in the county, people were mad at me, 'cause I told the officers, “Stop bringing it.” They like, “Hmm?” I’m like. “I'm good not doing it no more. Stop bringing it.” They like, “Aiight”

(01:10:04)

Guy that’s locked up with me got mad as hell like,  “Yo, you could at least let him bring it in and let us get it.” I was like, “Nah, I don't need it around me. I don't want you to do it 'cause I don't wanna– I don’t wanna do it.” 

Then when you get to prison it’s like you on the street, literally, there were more drugs in Rahway State Prison then I seen on the street, when I was trying to get high, or trying to buy something on the street. I had people out, I worked, I always worked when I was in– in the prison, so I worked in the kitchen, I worked in the laundry, I worked at the commissary. When I was in the laundry was the worst I ever seen it, because I was exposed to something that I didn't realize. Like, sometimes you see things happening but you don't realize especially if you're not involved, so when I went there, one of my cousins was there, so when I walk through the door he like,  “Yo whadda you need,” he start throwin’ like, “Bro, 'cause, I'm finished, it’s over.”

He’s like “Aight,” gave me some food and some– some cigarettes 'cause cigarettes’s his money. 

But when I was working in the laundry, the laundry– that’s how I think about how (chuckles) 'cause some of this stuff is gonna get out (laughs). So it’s different ways that things move– and you can go across the whole building, with certain jobs and people’ll ask you, and they pay you, if you'll accept it and I didn't know like,“Nah, I'm cool.” “Ah you–” “Nah, ya’ll– ya’ll know I don’t do this, I don’t do anything, ya’ll know I don’t do anything, I’m stayin’ true to myself, so it has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with the officer that’s bringin’ it, asking me to do this.” 

Like, “Are you serious you really are, you really are a goody-two shoes.”

“No. Just trying not to get locked up while I’m in prison,” like does that make sense to you? (laughs) Wwho wants to be locked up, while you locked up, that just– you look stupid, you already locked up but now you goin’ to the hole because you can’t follow the rules inside the prison, and they’re difficult rules to follow, make no mistake about it, they are some stupid, like out here, some stupid rules, but the rules– and if I want to succeed when I get home I gotta follow these stupid rules in here, so that I can follow the stupid rules out 

(01:13:28)

here, because I know all you want to do is lock me up and I can’t allow that to happen no more. I’m not– I can’t put my family through that, can’t put myself through it. So, (exhales) being clean is like the best thing ever. I didn’t know I was– I’m not smart, like, yeah I got a three point– look, I say it all the time man, “You kinda are.” “I’m kinda not.” Like, I work and I study and I do things but there’s some really smart people that’s locked up, they don’t– they don’t have to study. They’ll read something or they’ll do something and automatically, when you see innovative ideas, I’d never seen someone come up with more creative ways to do something that inside of a prison, things that you be like, “How the– what made you think to do that!” And they’ll be with something simple, that it’s like, those individuals, if you were to took ‘em back and, uh, in Egypt when they were trying to build the pyramids, they’re the ones that figured out how to build a pyramid and figured out how to get those slabs up, to the top. That’s how they minds think.  There’s a way to do this. My mind, “I can’t do that it’s not just, it’s not gonna work we can’t get that up there– up,” and they like, “No you just do this and that.”

“Wow.”

There’s this guy in– in row, his name is Benji, they called him Benji, he fixed anything and everything in that prison. If a pipe broke, I mean major big pipes, a boiler anything, he was called and he fix it. They didn't hire contractors from the outside to come fix things on the inside 'cause they had free labor, and  he could fix anything, don't know if he ever graduated from high school. But you have individuals like that that the state uses and have locked away knowing that, out here engineer, that building is being built across the street, he could figure it out, he’d build that for you and why put everything in there that needs to be in there, instruct you, tell you how exactly how to do it read the blueprints, this is a– that’s genius, that’s why I say I’m not smart, I’m not smart, you know, I like to talk, network, put people together, see who can come up with the best idea and say, that’s a good idea, now, now that you’ve given me that idea, I do see how we can make that idea a little bit better. That’s my, you know, see how we can make it a little bit better, see how we can do it this way, see how we can bring some more people into the conversation and see how we can make it reach others, that’s how I fall into place, I’m good at that. All this other stuff, yeah I can do some math and calculus, I don’t like to, people like to do that stuff, I don’t like that, (laughs).

Um, where you wanna go now Dan. 

Um, I was curious, you reflected earlier sort of, um, like, always incidental that you were in the streets when you were younger, I was curious if you could elaborate more in why you stayed with it. 

(Chuckles) Um.

(01:17:58)

Just– just– just to sort of backtrack quickly, you– what you did say is that it was a way to connect to your father. I wasn’t sure if that was just tongue and cheek or if that was real.

No. Alright so, I’ll never forget, what was I, sophomore in high school and I have a cousin, and we gonna call him, Steph. (laughs) I have a cousin, and he was husslin’, and that was back when crack was real, he wasn’t buying no powder cocaine, it was crack, and he went to NY and he brought the crack home, and you could get a gram for like seven to ten dollars, and you could shop it up and sell it $10, $20 a bottle and make like, mmm, shhhooo, at least four, five clips off of a gram selling at like $500 off a like $15, $10, you can be making that much money, so it’s funny 'cause the other day we were at my uncle's funeral. We just had to bury my uncle on the 15th and we’re sitting up at the church and I said, “Come here,” we go up on the side of the church, and I’m like, “Yo, you remember the warm house?” he’s like, “What?!”

“I’m like the warm house.”  It’s two houses over from the church and it’s a house that it was basically abandoned but the gas stove still works, so if you turn on the gas stove on in the burners in the house, the house would stay warm. So during the winter, where I was– ate there outside and they– you– you– you is small in the ground and you cold, but if you can go in the house and get warm you go back out and you can make money. So I didn’t know nothing about selling drugs. My cousin is in there, he’s shopping up, cutting it up, making the money, putting it in the bottles. So he has this money, he made a clip, he’s like, “Yo I need to go outside but I can’t gotta make. Chop this up, go outside, they gonna come to you, just give me $50 back, this is $100.”

I’m like, “How?”  He’s like, “Just go outside, they gonna come to you, just go sit on the car.” 

So I– I go outside, I wasn’t out there seven minutes, three people came, “Let me get three, let me get three, let me get four.”  A hundred dollar I’m like, “What the fuck just happened.” 

I went back in, he’s like, “Alright, just give me $50.” So I gave him $50, he said, “Here you want another one?” I say, “Yeah.” I went out. 

(01:20:54)

Aint’ ten, fifteen minutes this time, that’s all gone. I come back in, he’s like,  “Yo, give me $50.” I gave him $50. “You want another one?” I was like, “Yeah!” 

Went back out there, took a little bit longer now, so it’s about maybe twenty– twenty minutes this time, it’s cold, remember we in the warm house, so I go back, I gave him, I had a $100 so somebody came and they wanted some but they didn’t have all the money, but now I’m like, shit he only want $50, fuck this is cold, so I gave him– I gave him the product, they gave me the money, come back in, only look, out of that one I made I think $85. So, but I still gave him the $50, still got $35 and still had that, so I had $135. I ain’t been outside for an hour yet, total. 

He’s like, “Wow, get warm.” 

I’m like, “Hell yeah, it’s cold as hell.” 

He’s like, “You want some more?” 

I said, “yeah!”

He’s like, “Alright it cost $50.” 

I was like, “Okay, (chuckles) I got you now,” gave him the $50. Gave him a home and that was the beginning.

 'Cause now I’m with my cousin, that’s on my father’s side, and I’m making money. So if my father’s side of the family run the streets, this is what we do, and now I’m on the street making money with my family, I’m connected. And that’s how that connection, it built that part of my reputation. My father ran the streets, everybody knew who he was and now I’m on the street, I look just like him. So, we know him that we can fight, we know him to hussle, so I just adopted that life that I didn’t need to do, 'cause I lived in Bridgewater, I lived in the suburbs, I lived, around nothing but rich people, they were taking me, I’d go to a friends house and they take me to a classical concert, like. (laughs) I was living in two fucking world, but I hit the street, so I could, you know, connect with my other side of the family, and my cousin showed me, and then he took me to New York, and it was off to the races, 'cause once I made enough money and I was able to go to New York and pick up my own. Tsh. I was, I mean, I was making money that I couldn’t spend. I literally couldn’t spend it, my mom woulda kicked my ass, so I had to hide my money. I bought clothes in New York that I couldn’t wear at home, because my mom bought all my clothes. I tell you I was living two different lives. So I had a whole wardrobe at– at my friends house that before I– when my mom would drop me off to go to school, I would go to his house, change into the clothes that I was getting from, you know, the clothes that, you know, cost a whole lot of money, go to school fly, so I thought (chuckles), live this life, go back to his house, change, so 

(01:24:35)

that I could go home. I was livin’– I was really livin’ that double conscious life. (laughs) You thought– I– I– I had been doing this for a long time, yeah, so that, shoot, it was fun. The money I made, I had fun with it, I couldn’t spend it around my mom, so I was spending money stupid, for no reason just spending money, I wish I had known about money, the way I know about money now, becuase I– I– I mean you talking about a kids from the sophmore year to at least 22 off and on selling. I had to make, easy, a quarter mill, you know, just– is not all at one time, like you make money, you lose money, you don’t put the money up you gotta go ree up– you lose some, but, if it was a legal business, yeah, I would ghost, around a quarter– quarter mill. Especially at that time, in– in that era, where everybody was smokin’ crack, and I wasn’t smokin’ it yet (laughs.) That’s– that’s the funny part, when you’re not smoking your own supply, you really make money, 'cause all you doin’ is smoking a little weed, and weed was cheap back then so better get a pound for like, 4– 500, you know, in the right spot that would last you two, three months. Just making ridiculous amounts of money and doing nothing with it, out of– I should’ve been buying real estate like Jay-Z, fuckin– (laughs) ah, man. I didn’t know, well just wanted to have fun, what’s her name Cindy, Cindy Lauper, “We just wanna have fun.” 

Where you wanna go Dan? (laughs)

So you indicated, um, I guess weed and alcohol when you were a freshman, when did you switch to harder– harder substances? 

Um, don’t wanna blame rap, 'cause I was smokin’ wu’s before Wu-Tang started talking about smokin’ wu’s. So about my junior year, someone said you could lace your weed with the cocaine, so I started sprinkling the weed and the coke together, rolling it up and that was the beginning. I’m smoking, basically smoking crack, but it’s– it’s a difference, and that’s when, you know, you start off doing one thing you don’t know, so smoking crack out of a pipe, is different than smoking crack that’s laced in marijuana, is a different rush, is a different timing, so, I was smoking it in the weed and it be, like, (a noise)  and it would mellow out because you smoking it with weed, so I was doing that for years and didn’t realize, always saying, “Ah, never, you know, I’d never smoke pipe,” and then I was around somebody and they was like, “Yo just smoke it,” and I was like, “Nah.”  Didn’t want ‘em to see me doing it, so I went home, was like, let me see what the– I smoke, I was like, “Wow, that’s really different– hmm– I think I could– I really enjoy this.” One thing about me though when I go– when I got high though, it was like, something happen where, I would start thinking about ways to change the world, where (laughs), other people are doing other things and thinking, my thing was, wow I could really think clear now, and I would be see things and then actually go do it. And I could talk, like, (chuckles) I noticed when I was little, people that smoke crack, they couldn’t talk after they smoke, they be like “–”, and I be like,“What the fuck is wrong with ya’ll?” 

(01:30:10)

And they be like “–.” But I’d smoke and just continue the conversation, that’s why nobody ever knew I use to get high, 'cause it didn’t change, is like, I always said, Nancy Reagan in– in that era they lied, when they said, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs, any questions, saying that they burn, um, brain cells. That’s a lie, I believe that at some point, you know, there might be certain individuals that it might alter your cognitive thinking, but I smoked and did enough drugs to know that if I am able to cognitively think, it didn’t actually burn my brain cells, and if it did, I must have more than average because I’m still able to, you know, communicate, still think, something that they were portraying just wasn’t the truth. I mean, they scared a lot of people into not doing drugs, and then when you did it, you act– - some people believe it, so then they start acting like that, I don’t– I don’t know how to explain it, I just, that’s my own theory, maybe I can prove it one day. But yeah, yeah. Alright. 

Tell me about football.

(Exhales) I was going to try out for the team when I got here in 2016 at 40 years old (chuckles).  I was in shape, and I would have made the team, and I still can make the team that I could still do whatever these kids are doing, I still got it. I could at 225 lb I was still running a for 4 for 40, I can dunk a basketball, that's how high I could jump, long jump, I– really wasn’t my forte so I couldn't jump a long distance, maybe I was just scared to jump that far so I wouldn't, (chuckles) but, I– I– I love football. There's things that I see on the football field that I don't think anybody else, everybody sees a different, so nobody sees it the way I see it. I can see plays before they happen, I could see plays that I know will work against a defense. I can stop an offense by just shifting one person, in my head and I can call plays out that they called, on it– on it during a game, watching the game, on TV or on the field, like, “They're about to do this,” and people be like, “How the hell did you know!” 

“Because, there's nothing else to do supposed to be doing if you're in that position right now.”

Um, football was damaging to me. My senior year in high school, I think that was also a shift, I had a coach, coach Savage, (exhales heavily). Coach Savage, this is going on the record, Mercedes and I hope it gets out, coach Savage was a racist and coach Savage wanted someone that was Caucasian to shine, on the team, and wanted to get them into college, the person that he chose, was a friend of mine, rest in peace Joe Arena. Joe– Joe died of a heroin overdose right before I came home in 2016, me and Joe used to get high in high school. We both, you know, dibbled dabbled, took some nouns that we shouldn't have, and we both ended up in prison. But, in high school before all that happened, coach Savage took my position, the [unclear] in the offense, and he said he wanted Joe to play that position and want me to move to a snot. Now I had already had scholarship offers, team are looking at me for 

(01:35:14)

this and that, they already know that I play this position and he's just gonna take it away from me, not because Joe beat me out, which he didn't, he just wanted to put Joe in that position because he knew that, even if he didn't do it as well as I did, he could still do it, and if he put me in a snot we still would win, 'cause he can still give me the ball from there. (mumbles) Throw the ball to me I could catch, I could run, and um, when he did it my family was like you need to quit, Joe was gonna quit, I told him, “No, first of all we’re a team, we know what he’s doing, if you quit it's going to break the whole team up, because you know, like I know, this racism is on the team that we go to school with, that are going to follow you because they think that is a racial thing and they’re gonna think that you're agreeing with them in that black people shouldn't be in these positions. If I quit it's gonna cause a problem because they're gonna think that I feel the same way. So what we're gonna do is, you're gonna take the position and we're still gonna win.”

 He’s like, “Nah, it’s not right Truck.”

I said, “Ah, We know it’s not right but you like to win, like I like to win right?”

And he said, “Yeah!”

“So why the fuck would we quit? We still gonna win.”

So that’s what we did, we continued to win. Now, that really messed me up, with football, because I realized that it’s political, like, it was always a game. Now it wasn’t a game anymore, it was a job and um, that was my senior year.  So then imagine when I get to college and the same thing happens, and I'm playing, and I’m playing and that’s somebody else's name and I'm not playing in the position I was supposed to. It’s like, “Wow, this is what it’s going to be huh, I don’t wanna play anymore.” So, I quit. Before I quit, there was coach that ran the defense at Montclair and he asked me to go and play for him. 

I was like, “Ah, coach I don’t play defense anymore, I’m a linebacker, you want me to go play a corner, that doesn’t even make sense.”

He’s like, “You got the speed and you got the size, what do you mean? I could train you. You could do it.”

“I know I could do it’s just I quit. I want the ball. I wanna run.”

(chuckles) He said, “You could get the ball. Intercept. Go. Do whatever you want.”

I’m like, “Nah, nah, nah.”

He’s like, “If you come play for me, when I leave you can come with me.”

And I’m like, “When you leave?”

(01:38:28)

He’s like, “Yeah, I’m not gonna be here forever.” 

Black coach, “Nah.” Dropped out anyway. 

Didn’t watch football for two years after I dropped out. The day I turn the TV back on to watch a football game, I’m watching Iowa and they show the new defensive coordinator for Iowa and it’s fucking coach Jackson, and I’m like, “This mother– are you serious, this is what you were talking about?”  He couldn't tell me that he's about to leave and he has prospects to go into a Division 1 school and he's going to bring me with him. “You could’ve just told me, maybe I could’ve changed my mind, I, you know, I love football I could’ve played defense (laughs), if he's going to take me to a D1 school!” But, I love football, I'll eventually coach, again, you know, behind the scene stuff, I want to be that guy, like, sitting in the stands with the headphones, “No no no no, not this play, no no no no no, that’s not working, what are you doing?” Going to the locker room to talk to ‘em and like, “Ya’ll do know what’s happening right?” Explain it, they go out and they win. That’s all. Just one win, I like to win. I learn how to lose, so I can accept that also. I just want it to be a game, have fun. Yeah. Football, not life. (laughs then exhales)

Is that good for football? 

What brought you to it in the first place, what do you love about it? 

Mhm, athlete. The park that they built, the park had a basketball court, a baseball field, and a big field that we played football at, so we played three different sports basically, basketball, football, baseball, I was good, in all of them, but I was the best at football, so I stopped playing basketball, got cousins that made it to the NBA, Erick Murdog um, cousins that played overseas Lans, Miller, David Miller, Jason Murdock, they coach, so we have basketball in our blood, we’re good.  Football, I’m better. My cousin Theo Riddick plays for Detroit Lions right now, running back, we’re good. Baseball, I never forget the first time I play baseball, organized. It was like my father, James, uh, Hobbs was my coach he's like,  “Aiight, we’ll go to the trials, don’t hit the ball.” I’m like, “Huh?”

He’s like, “Look, if you wanna play on a team with me, you gotta strike out or else they’re gonna take you and you gonna play with somebody else and you– you you're gonna probably move you up 'cause you're big, so you won't play with the kids your age.”

I’m like, “Aiight.” 

Then he started throwing the ball at me and I could not hit the ball, so I'm smacking it, “Pow, pow.” (laughs)

He’s like, “I told you.”

(01:42:29)

I was like, “What?”

He’s like, “Yeah, you just moved up two grades, you playing with the older kids, and you’re not on my team, so– how you gonna do that?” 

I was like, “I don’t know.” So I– I was an athlete, I played sports. Didn’t matter, but football was always the best. I played handball, I think I’ve played any sport that’s out. I can golf, I could play tennis. I’m not a good bowler, because for some reason that ball won’t turn for me, it won’t spin (chuckles), it won’t curve but, uh, other than that, an athlete, so. I think I went to my first college football game here at Rutgers and that’s when it was like, “God.” Since six years old, the crowd, nice. Then my– my uncle took ‘em and my cousin Steph, and my little brother Chris to, um, my cousin Jonathan Williams played for Penn State, ended up going to New England drafted and went to a Penn State game, and I was like, “Wow, this is– this crowd is bigger than Rutgers.” 'Cause (laughs) yeah, so, mhm, yup.  I could just do it, it wasn’t work– it wasn’t work. 

And I was lazy. No no no, I was– like when it came to, like I had a– I had a coach, we had a strength training coach, coach Kaleida, and you know everybody had to go into the gym and do stuff and he's like, “Truck I know you're not going to do nothing, just do like three sets of cleans and then you can leave.” So that’s all I would do, I would do the cleans and he had me doing like 225 cleans. I didn't know what that meant at the time you know you’re in high school cleaning 225 lb and pressing it, so clean, press, and doing sets, that's all I was doing, but I didn't realize it just doing the one exercise I was doing my whole body  and stronger than anything moving, but if I knew and understood it and I actually did work in other areas, I would’ve been bigger than I am right now. Natural, that’s all man, just natural, that’s football. 

Um, and then I think the last thing I wanted to talk about was related to the campaign in terms of what did you– when you were in prison, starting there, was there ever a compulsion to be able to represent yourself, based on the conditions in which you were being held, or was it something that came out after you left prison as an obstacle, and you can talk through it as you want.   

Um, when I first– alright, even when I was in– in the county, I realized they had a law library, small, they only allowed you to go at certain times, but your fighting for your life and they don’t even allow you to fight, so, right from there I was, “Alright, this is not the way it’s supposed to be, something has to change.” And then when I got down in prison and I’m watching everybody is like, you go to the law library in the prison, when I first got there and it was like maybe twenty, twenty-five people that will come to the law library at that time. And in Rahway you're looking at over a thousand, 1200 inmates, and nobody's fighting, and the ones that are fighting they’re fighting for other people, and it’s like what in the world is happening? Everybody's just settling for what they've been given because they've been told that this is what you got. You know, and they have– they have this wing, wing rep, so it’s a representation of individuals that will speak for the population and each wing had it, and it’s a form of politics, it’s like, so you run, it’s like you run a regular campaign. You write your name and what you want to do for each individual and I'm 

(01:48:15)

like, “Oh, so we can speak to the administrator's and tell them what we want and what we want changed, okay.” And I started getting involved in that and I realize, “Oh, that's just fake they just want you to say that so they can tell, the higher-ups that they doing it but they not going to give you nothing.” The only way you going to be able to change it is going on food strike um, stop movement, so mean you're not going to work, you know, they get free labor and you stop their labor. “What do you need, what do you want?” Now things start to happen, “You’re not eating, why you're not eating, if you're not eating now we have to report it. What do you want?” Okay, learn where the power is, learn how you actually use your power to actually get things change and that's what really started, 'cause I realize that we do have the power, we just have to know how to use it and, um, I just knew, when I came home, I wanted people to start voting 'cause President Obama was elected while I was locked up and it was like crushing to me, I was so upset with myself. You are not supposed to be in nobody's prison when the first black president is elected, that's just not where you're supposed to be, that's not where any black man– that's not where anybody is supposed to be but you definitely not supposed to be in prison at this time. Yeah and I was like okay, this will never happen again, and I’m gonna figure out how, you know, get people involved, because it– it has to change and I watched– I watch individuals come in and they– they had a high school diploma but still couldn’t do multiplication tables or division. How does that happen? It happens because of the system that’s established that’s allowing it and, um, not enough people voting to change it, so now I’m gonna work on getting involved in being active and everything that that goes. I've never, I don't think I've ever met a a politician a congressman or congresswoman that doesn’t– is basically not a millionaire, everybody that’s in Congress they have money, they are well off so if you got these kids running around wanting to be rappers and ball players so they be a millionaire pop stars, 'cause they want the money. Well if we start raising them to be congressmen and congresswomen they can still get the money they just don't have to be as flashy, that's what the problem is everybody want to be flashy, let everybody know you got the money, “oh I’m doing this.” You really don’t have anything, they ones that really have the money and the power are sitting in an office going to work when they feel like it (chuckles) 'cause, um, they’re not in session that much, like what are you doing? I’m paying you to go to work and you don’t go. That’s a great job. So that’s what it, the activist has kicked in, so we’re working towards it changing everything.

Uh, if the FS 2100 passes–

When it passes.

Um, thank you–

Chuckles

When it passes, um, what, uh, what then becomes the next step following that activism?

Um, so hopefully, Lord willing, I’ll, um, I’ll be off parole May 6th, they are trying to give me another three years, we didn't even talk about that, for the sovereign they wanted to give me seven today, three and three, the judge said no and then they appealed it so, it's in the appeal court. [unclear] I get off parole I'll be able to go back into the prisons because I'm not on parole and that’s the goal, so once we have the right to vote, for everybody that’s incarcerated, on parole or probation, the first step is to get the individuals inside voting, you can’t tell somebody they’re supposed to vote and you don’t go talk to them, they have to understand why, 'cause first of all the system has sentenced me to this and 

(01:53:51)

now you want me to vote for a democratic system that I don't fully agree with, so you have to be able to go inside and break it down. Explain to them, this is what our legislators are proposing right now, this is what we can get them to propose, “Ah, that don’t work!”

“But I’m here in front of you, because it did work and we got you the right to vote, so what makes you think that the next things that we put forward won't actually go through, when now you have an opportunity to vote for individuals and for policy that will affect you and your families.”

That's the next step going back inside and convincing the individuals that are incarcerated to vote, that’ll just trickle out so now everybody will start voting. They’ll vote, their family members will vote, individuals on parole and probation will vote and, [pause]  and it’ll change the whole scheme, everything, because now as a constituent they can't just overlooked you, 'cause then they won't get to a vote, they can't get a vote, they can't stay there in power. They can't funnel money the way they want to funnel money, so that’s, um, that’s the next step. Once the bill has passed we get the individuals that they say won’t vote to vote.

And are you, um, are you advocating as a registered Democrat or advocating just as giving them the ability to make their own decisions. 

I– at this point I’m not registered (laughs) so–

Expect– expecting

I would more than likely, um, I’d be independent, I– I’m not too fond of the red or blue, honestly, because there were things that I– I– Governor Christie did that I agreed with, and I would have voted for him, (chuckles) so. Murphy, some things he's doing that I agree with, other things, I don’t agree with this legalization of recreational marijuana, not the way that you're doing it, you have nothing in place for kids 20 and under that get their hands on this marijuana that's gonna be running rampant through this state, and it's not legal for them to have it, it's only for 21 and up, so, what do you have in place that's going to protect them from being locked up and fined for having marijuana that you’ve approved to be recreational, you’ve put nothing in place, nothing that tells the cops, “Don't lock ‘em up, just confiscate.” Nothing that says, “Pick ‘em up and take ‘em home, don't pick them up and take them to a jail cell.” I don't agree with you, you're not taking the necessary precautions, so when I say red and blue, both sides do things that you don't agree with it and sometimes they do things that you do agree with and I just want to vote where it's beneficial to everybody, the population, let’s– let’s focus on people, instead of, ah, this is the party line that party line,  stop! We got too many issues that need to be dealt with to be thinking about who is representing that, nah, let’s get down to the issues and who's gonna benefit, who are you really trying to help, who’s going to be hurt by what you just passed, 'cause you're gonna have to fix that later now that you just passed, and they're voting on that today aren’t they, yeah. Poles going up today. So right now they may have already passed it, now these kids gonna run around grab some weed, think it’s cool because it’s recreational, they’re not consciously thinking, I can’t go to the park and smoke, even though is legal in New Jersey, they’re gonna go to the park, 

(01:58:54)

smoke, have weed on them, get locked up, get a fine, that they can’t pay, their parents are gonna have to get ‘em out, if they don’t release them on their own recognizance, which they probably will because it’s marijuana, but who’s gonna pay the fine, their parents, their parents don’t pay the fine, they’re gonna do something to their parents, if the kids don’t pay the fine, juvenile detention, what the hell?! Juvenile detention leads to D.O.C. It’s– it’s a never ending cycle, and they don’t do this to the white people, they show the numbers in Washington and in Colorado, black and brown spiked 20 and under. White kids? It sayed the same or went under, that’s fucking impossible, excuse my language. It’s impossible! and went to Bridgewater (laughs), they’re smoking more than I was and they was dropping acid. It’s just, what you gonna do? So, yeah. (exhales) Yup. 

Um, Dameon, uh, before we leave is there any– anything you wanna make sure you get a chance you speak to, and just so you know also, this doesn’t have to be the last time we talk also, if there’s anything else that you wanna bring back into the conversation we can talk too. 

I mean, it’s just so much that has to be done, we need to– a new entry not reentry. I wrote a paper, for my midterm yesterday, on how I was able to, you know, receive um affordable care, back when I came home and the benefits that are inside of it, where individuals don’t know. If you’re on affordable care, Obamacare, you’re eligible for a dollar a day insurance, car insurance, so for $365, you can get car insurance for the whole year, and they do it in installments, $185 for the first month, $180 for the second six months. You have families that don’t believe that they can afford a vehicle and insurance because insurance rates are so high, but you have things in place, but you don’t tell anybody. You don’t tell anybody that these things are available, how do you use them? And if all of these things are in place because is in the affordable care act, where does all of that money end up going when nobody uses it. So, these are the things that need to be reevaluated: how do we get the resources out, the resources that are available, how do we get that out into the public so that they know. One of the reasons I’m becoming a social worker, all we do is find people money and housing, you know. But, I need to change the policy on that money also, so. That’s what I’m gonna be working towards, and changing the steam, or the field of autism in New Jersey, that’s another, autism and disabilities, a lot of our kids have been diagnosed or undiagnosed with, mental disabilities, intellectual disabilities and the undiagnosed are the worst because they lock them up, they say that they’re, you know, uncontrollable or they say they have ADHD, and it may not necessarily be attention deficit, but you’re incarcerating these kids and that turns into incarcerated adults. You have incarcerated adults that have mental issues and intellectual disorders that you would never, it, like, it just doesn’t make sense to me, so those are the things that need to be addressed. Like start– like, let’s get the right healthcare, mental health, everybody that’s coming home, we laugh about it with NBC we all have PTSD, anybody that’s been locked up has PTSD. It may manifest in different ways for other people, some people can handle it, but, there’s trauma, there’s stress, there’s things that happen that you’ll never be able to comprehend– and something as simple as walking down the street can trigger it, you know, you walk by a officer that’s in all black, you thinking about an officer that’s part of this sag unit that they have in the prisons, that they made you lay on the bed with your hands behind your head and your feet crossed, for hours, it’s painful, it’s traumatic, these are the things that they do.

(00:00:38)

They say that their rehabilitating you, and then you come back out in the society and not many people can deal with it, you have no one to talk to about it. You know why? Because, “Oh, you were locked up, you served your time, you deserve to be punished.” I don’t deserve to be tortured, I commited a crime, that’s why they got rid of Guantanamo, stopped waterboarding, at least they say they did! (chuckles) You can’t torture people, it’s just not humane. And prisons are torture, solitary confinement for kids, what the f– who the fuck, you can’t even put a child in time out anymore, but you can put a child in solitary confinement, in a juvenile justice department, that just makes no sense, but you want him or her to come out and be a productive citizen in society, how? That– it doesn’t work. It just doesn’t work. And how– how can I be a citizen and I can’t vote and do my civic duty, that– I’m not a citizen, I’m an alien, you might as well say that I crossed the border illegally, until I”m able to cast a vote, or flew in a plane in a container, or somewhere on a boat, it’s just, we’re not citizens, stop saying that we are, you’re taking our money, you’re taking everybody’s money– I could go on and on. On and on.