Healthcare Worker in Texas
Healthcare worker in Texas shares her life story and upbringing, her relationship with her family, and the memories of her childhood, including how she met her husband. Together they have two children, one who was born with a hereditary, long-term condition. She speaks of her experiences with birth control, abortion, miscarriages, raising a family during COVID, health issues, dreams and lessons learned, as well as how her life experiences have informed her political views.
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More: “Clotting Disorders & Pregnancy: What Should You Know?,” Mayo Clinic Connect, July 3, 2018.
Learn More [2]: “HELLP Syndrome,” Cleveland Clinic, April 27, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Tracy Stickler, “Pregnancy Complications: Miscarriage, Eclampsia, and More,” Healthline, October 5, 2016.
Learn More [4]: “Antiphospholipid Syndrome in Pregnancy,” accessed September 5, 2024.
Learn More [2]: “Abortion Stigma,” Planned Parenthood, accessed April 19, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Zara Abrams, “The Facts about Abortion and Mental Health,” American Psychological Association, June 23, 2022.
Learn More: Buddy T and Aron Janssen, “The Impacts of a Parent With Alcohol Use Disorder,” Verywell Mind, March 6, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Stacy Mosel, “Children of Alcoholics: Growing Up with an Alcoholic Parent,” American Addiction Centers, June 18, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Bernard Golden, “Authoritarian Parenting: Its Impact, Causes, and Indications | Psychology Today,” Psychology Today, February 11, 2024.
Learn More [4]: Eve Glicksman, “Physical Discipline Is Harmful and Ineffective,” https://www.apa.org, May 2019.
Learn More: Rachael Green, “ADHD Symptom Spotlight: Perfectionism,” Verywell Mind, February 17, 2023.
Learn More [2]: “Data and Statistics on ADHD,” Center for Disease Control and Prevention, May 16, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Rebecca Joy Stanborough, “ADHD and Women: Why Are Diagnosis Rates Different? We Explain,” Healthline, January 11, 2023.
Learn More [3]: “Interactive Map: US Abortion Policies and Access After Roe,” Guttmacher Institute, accessed May 3, 2024.
Learn More [2]: Caitlin Geng, “Natural Birth vs. Epidural: Benefits and Drawbacks,” Medical News Today, January 15, 2024.
Learn More [4]: “C-Section,” Mayo Clinic, June 16, 2022.
Learn More: “MCAD Deficiency - Symptoms and Causes,” Mayo Clinic, November 28, 2023.
Learn More [3]: Sharl Botwin, “When Your Child Is Diagnosed With a Chronic Illness,” Psychology Today, September 19, 2022.
Learn More [4]: “How Chronic Illness or Disability Affects a Family,” HealthyChildren.org, December 28, 2021.
Learn More: “U.S. Uninsured Rate Drops by 26% Since 2019,” June 18, 2024.
Learn More [2]: Jennifer Tolbert, Patrick Drake, and Anthony Damico, “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” KFF, December 18, 2023.
Learn More [3]: Lunna Lopes et al., “Americans’ Challenges with Health Care Costs,” KFF (blog), March 1, 2024.
Learn More [2]: Berkeley Lovelace Jr., “Medication Abortions Rose in Year after Dobbs Decision, Report Finds,” NBC News, March 19, 2024.
Learn More [3]: Jeff Diamant and Besheer Mohamed, “What the Data Says about Abortion in the U.S.,” Pew Research Center (blog), January 11, 2023.
Learn More [5]: “New Data Show That Interstate Travel for Abortion Care in the United States Has Doubled Since 2020,” Guttmacher Institute, December 7, 2023.
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Conducted Remotely
September 29, 2023
Transcription by Elizabeth Torres
Annotations by Ainsley Fisher
[00:00:00]
Today is Friday, September 29th, 2023. It's 2:05 PM Eastern Time. Uh, my name is Dan Swern. I'm here in Highland park, New Jersey, uh, virtually conducting an oral history. And I'm joined here by, please say your name.
[Redacted]
[Redacted], thank you so much for taking the time to join me and share your story, uh, and whenever you're ready, I'm going to go ahead and mute and please feel free to start from the beginning.
Okay, I'm ready. So my name is [Redacted], full name. Um, I am 27 years old. I'll be 28 in December, [Redacted]. I was born in [Redacted]. Um, I was born to my mom, [Redacted], and my father, [Redacted]. Um, they met in Florida, which is where I was born. I was born in Florida, [Redacted], to be exact.
Um, but yeah, my parents met sometime in Florida. My dad was working there and my mom, um, she lived there. I think she was living kind of close to her dad, uh, because he– he bought a house there, and so that's where she ended up. Um, I believe she was working as a labor and delivery nurse at that time and my mom always loved to tell me this story, but she met my dad in a bar, and she said that when she went up to him, she asked him if he was even old enough to be there because she has. And, um, at that time, you know, I think they were 25 or so.
So she said that he just looked like he did not belong there. He was just too young to be in there. Which, funnily enough, my dad is actually older than my mom by a year. So, that's actually kind of funny. But, they met and, uh, my mom always tells me that it was just supposed to be a kind of one night stand thing and, uh, he just stuck around. So, I don't know, they kind of hit it off. But, um, they did end up having me. My mom tells me that she wasn't even supposed to have kids. So, it's so funny that she had me. She always loves to tell me this story how her and my dad went to Disney World because, uh, they were pretty close to Orlando. So, they went to Disney World. My dad had never been there. And they say that, um, they left there with Goofy, a.k.a. me. So I do love that story. But yeah, it's– that's kind of how my parents hit it off. And then I came around, and my parents did end up moving to Texas, where we currently live. I was just a couple months old when they moved to Texas.
So I never really– don't really say that I lived in Florida at any point, but it is always a nice little tidbit of information. When I tell people I was born there, ‘cause I’m from a small town. So most people are just born in the next town over. But, yeah, I mean, that's kind of how I made my way into the world. Um, I was born a month premature. Um, so, that was kind of complicated, I suppose, for my mom. But, I was actually a very large child. I was almost 8 pounds, even though I was born a month early. So, the doctor always told my mom that if I was born at my due date, I would have been like a 10 pound baby, so. Which is kind of funny because I'm honestly a small person as an adult.
Um, yeah, so we live in Texas. We moved to Texas when I was a month old. We've lived here my whole life. Um, but we live in [Redacted]. It's a small town, approximately 6, 000 people in the town. So, small town living for sure.
[00:04:10]
And this is where I've lived my whole life. We have been here, um, my sister came around when I was almost five years old, um, I'm not sure if she was planned or not, I– I think maybe my parents did want to have, um, another child, so she did come around, but I– I don't know the details about that, honestly, whether she was planned or not, but the birth experience for my mom was really traumatic, um, with my sister, she developed a condition called Hellp Syndrome, H-E-L-L-P. Um, at that time when my sister was born in [redacted], [Redacted], where she was born, they had never, they had never seen that. Um, I think it's about one percent of pregnant moms will develop that condition. So, my mom and my sister both actually almost died. During that– that for– my sister was born two months early. And then at that point, the OB told my mom, “you know, there's a trend happening here. You had the first one a month early, the second one two months early. So I think you're– I think your time for having more kids is over.” So my mom did end up having to have a hysterectomy. So that was– that was it for the kids, just me and my sister. As far as how me and my sister kind of got on as kids, I wouldn't say it was the best. Um, we fought a lot, we bickered a lot, which I know that's kind of normal for siblings, but, um, we just didn't get along very well.
We didn't really have a lot in common. The age gap was kind of a point of contention. I think, you know, she– I was almost five years older than her. So, you know, when I'm kind of going through things as a, you know, preteen, like, 10-year-old and she's– she's a toddler, you know, she's kindergarten age. So we just didn't have much to– to talk about or do with each other. Um, and we're just very different personalities. My sister is very, very hard headed. She's very strong willed. Um, she does not back down from a fight, which it's, I think maybe that's– my mom always says that that's– that because she came into this world fighting. So that's all she knows how to do is just fight and be strong. So, but yeah, as a kid, definitely didn't get along with each other. I'm definitely a more timid, shy kind of person. As a kid, I was more so, uh, just quiet. You know, my, I was always described as just being very, um, you know, into books and kept to myself and didn't go out. I'm a homebody, still am. So. That's really why me and my sister didn't get along. She was also very big into sports. She is a softball player, not so much now anymore. She has– she's grown and has two kids of her own now, but as a kid she did select softball. She did it all the way through high school and into college. And I was always the band kid. I did band and anything art related. So, just two polar opposite personalities. I think we balance each other out now.
Um, another kind of key factor of my childhood was, even though my parents are together and, you know, were together as we were growing up as children, um, we just did not get along. Unfortunately, my dad is an alcoholic. He's, you know, he has a big problem with alcohol. So, not that he was, you know, abusive or yelling at us or anything like that. It was just the stress of knowing that he was out drinking or he was passing out in the car or on the back porch. And just hearing my parents fight about that a lot was very hard on us as kids.
[00:8:60]
Um, and not only that, but my dad also wasn't around all the time. He's– his line of work. He's a welder. So that naturally just has you traveling a lot. He's been all over the country. He's been out of the country. So, um, my mom, I think she had a lot of stress. You know, she's trying to raise two kids, basically on her own, because my dad just wasn't there, so I think that was really hard on her. My mom is just, she didn't– she didn't necessarily have the best childhood either, so she didn't know how to cope with that stress. And she was working herself to death trying to provide for us, so it just– that– that was hard as a kid, I think. Having a mom who was the main caretaker, but she was also very authoritative. Um, and each time we got in trouble, it was physical punishment, like being whipped with a wooden spoon. Um, you know, I– I don't do that with my kids, and it– that was hard on me, growing up as a kid, just having a mom that yelled a lot, and physical punishment, and he was very much walking on eggshells, when he was home. And I think that contributed a lot to how I am as an adult, just very, I don't know, I– I don't really– it's hard for me to deal with confrontation or handle authority, even though I am an adult. I don't always feel like an adult in situations like that. It feels like I'm that kid again just trying to appease my mom so I won't get in any more trouble. And I think that was another big reason why me and my sister fought a lot, too, is she, like I said, she's very strong-willed and she doesn't back down from a fight, so she had no problems at all fighting back with my mom and yelling back and forth, so in my mind, I wanted her to just shut up because I didn't want to make it worse for us, but she didn't want to do that, so, you know, I think that added to it too, but childhood was tumultuous at times, but not always.
Um, this situation, the feelings about it are kind of complicated, I think, but– Yeah, I mean, that's kind of how, how I grew up, um, aside from my family life, you know, my– my friends and the things that I did for fun, um, I had a– I have– have a really tight knit group of friends. Uh, we were in a program that's called Gifted and Talented, so that is a program where they test certain kids to show a higher aptitude for, um, you know, just being smart, I guess, or learning differently. Um, it's actually considered special ed, but on the, I guess, intelligence-side of the spectrum, so to speak. So, anyway, all that to say, we were put in those– those– that program, um, early on. I think we were, some of us started in kindergarten, some in first grade. I was put into that program in second grade, and the reason why I was put into that program is because my first grade teacher was calling my mom saying that I wouldn't stop talking to all the other students because I would finish my work first, and then I was trying to teach all the other kids how to read and do their work, so they're like, they kind of saw that and thought, hmm, maybe she needs some more advanced learning and needs harder work.
So, um, second grade, that was where I joined the GT program, as it's called. And from there, that is where I met a majority of my friends. To this day, we are still friends. Um, so that's been, gosh, I mean, twenty plus years, over twenty years, definitely, that I've been friends with these people. So, as a kid, it was really nice having that really close knit group of friends, especially because they understood the struggles that I was going through with just kind of feeling like an outcast a little bit. The main issue with this program is they isolate you from other kids. You know, you're not put into classes with other people. You're– you're with this one group of friends, these GT kids, so we didn't get a lot of interaction with our peers and that– they noticed that. They noticed that we were different.
[00:12:58]
And, you know, we got picked on for that, for being nerds, quote unquote, which, it's so silly as an adult, you know, who cares, but as a kid, that was hard. But having them around and able to understand me, and understand the way my brain works and how I think, uh, it was, it was awesome, and it still is awesome to this day having them.
Um, but yeah, I mean, that's– that's kind of how I was a kid with my friends and being able to just have– have them around. Um, yeah, I mean, and as far as school goes, I mean, I guess I was kind of an overachiever in a way. Um, I did find out recently that I do have ADHD, um, which I think definitely contributed to how school was for me. Uh, you know, I– I consider myself to be smart, I suppose, um, but school, I mean doing homework and school projects, it was really difficult for me because I don't know how much you know about ADHD, but, um, procrastination, that's a big one. So, you know, uh, telling mom the night before, oh, I have a project and we need to go get these things. So, you know, keeping up with homework was hard and– But yeah, I mean, that kind of affected how– how school went for me. And even as an adult into college, it affected that. But I think a big outlet for me in school as well, uh, was band. You know, I was– I was a band kid, as I mentioned before. And I played the flute, and the piccolo. I played the piccolo more so in college, but, um, I did play the flute. So that was, that was super fun. And I was always Um, I was always up there and chair level. And, um, you know, when I was like a senior in high school, I was actually first chair. So definitely, I found my, I found my niche with that. Um, and that is actually where I met my husband.
We'll bring him into the fold. That's where I met him. Um, he's a year younger than me. So he actually, uh, graduated a year after me, but that is how we met. Um, he remembers that story more than I do, but he says I just came up to him and was like, “Hey, what, what's up?” Which is kind of funny because I'm not like that at all as an adult. I don't really approach people, but I don't know. I guess something felt right. Um, we actually do– did ride the same bus as well. So, you know, I always saw him on the bus. We lived right down the street from each other as kids. So I think that's kind of oddly romantic in a way that we found each other like that. Um, but yeah, I mean in middle school we started dating. Uh, as middle school relationships go, it did not last, of course, but– No problem there. We stayed friends, um, he actually was my first kiss, so, kind of, uh, disgustingly romantic, I think, but he was my first kiss, and then, after we broke up, you know, we stayed friends, um, all throughout high school, and then, we actually reconnected in high school. We went on a band trip, of course, to Disney World. And I don't know, things just kind of fell into place, I guess. Um, and we have been together until this day. We– it's been almost ten years now. That we've been together. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's how that's kind of how the majority of my childhood there, I think–
[00:16:51]
So kind of going into adulthood. I did go to college briefly. I went to [Redacted], which is in [Redacted]. That's about thirty minutes north of where I currently live and where I did graduate from, which was still thirty minutes north of that. I did go to, I went for speech and hearing science for about three years or so, and then I kind of felt like– I kind of felt like playing my instrument was just more of a priority to be, you know, band was always– always something that I've loved and that didn't stop whenever I went to college. So, uh, I did continue with the marching band and concert band, even though I was not a music major, but about three years then I decided that I wanted to be a music major. So I changed my major to music, um, music education, and then– Kind of along that route, I started feeling like I wanted to do, um, music performance instead, so that was kind of the plan, but it didn't really work out like that, um, kind of in college, me and my husband weren't– weren't doing the best, um, our relationship was kind of in a rocky place, you know, we were young though, uh, I mean, gosh, we started dating again in high school. We were 17 and 18 years old. So, uh, I mean, how serious can you– can you really be then, you know, but so in college, it was kind of a difficult adjustment, I think, for us. So things aren't always the best, um, unfortunately, but, you know, it works out obviously, since we are married to this day. But anyway, (pause) I was doing music, but I ended up getting pregnant with our daughter.
And that is– that is our first child, and she is five years old. Um, she's in kindergarten now, but kind of leading up to that, there is a story leading up to that. Um, before I had her, there was a time where I– I did get pregnant before her. Um, that– and that– this– this would be my– my first pregnancy that I've ever had. And, you know, I'm, I think I was, gosh, I think I was 20, 22, no, 21. I was 21 when I– when this happened. And it just not, it wasn't a good time. I mean, I was young. I was in college. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I wasn't in a good place with my– any of my interpersonal relationships. It was just a really hard time for me. And. That was the first time that I kind of, I had looked into an abortion. Um, you know, I– and I think this, uh, kind of what happened there is I was on birth control, but as I mentioned, you know, I– I do have ADHD, and I honestly just was not taking my birth control properly the way that I was supposed to. I went a few days without taking it and I was vulnerable, of course, and that is how I ended up pregnant the first time. Um, and coincidentally, how I ended up pregnant with my daughter as well. But, yeah, I– I had started exploring, um, abortion since I just did not feel like it was the right time for me to have a child. And– that is when I got in contact with Planned Parenthood. Um, I don't– I'm not really– I can't really say why it took so long. I did have the abortion at sixteen weeks. Um, I think part of it was just– trying to deal and cope with the fact that I was pregnant, and I didn't know what I was going to do or what I should do at that time. And just the amount of time it takes to make those appointments and, in the state of Texas, you can't just make one and go. It has to be two appointments. So I had to make the first one to confirm the pregnancy and do all the things that you have to do legally. And then. Then I had to schedule the next one. So just the amount of time that it took to do all that, and I ended up being rather far along by the time I did get that first abortion. So sixteen weeks, it was a surgical abortion. The experience with that, was, um, it was kind of rough. I mean, I don't regret it at all. I think that that was what I needed at the time, and I think it would have been– I don't think it would have been right for me personally to bring a child into the world at that time, so I don't regret it at all.
[00:22:09]
I think it was the right thing to do for me, but, um, the procedure was rough. Um, even just the short amount of time I was pregnant was rough. Uh, I was really sick all the time and my skin was really dry, like horribly dry. I just didn't feel good at all. Um, and then when I did get the procedure, they, um, put the little dilators in, and yeah, that was just horrible pain wise, uh, so it was kind of isolating a little bit, you know, you're not– there's nobody with you, you know, in the back stairwell. They're doing that, you know, not– you just kind of have to sit in a chair and wait for– for it to be over, um, until they can bring me back and do the procedure. So, it was kind of rough, but again, I don't regret it. It's– that's what I needed to do. Um, so that was my first experience with abortion. Um, well, I guess me getting one anyway. Uh, my mom actually did work for an abortion clinic when I was, uh, like a teenager, young teenager, preteen. Um, she did work– she worked in an abortion clinic that was in [Redacted]. So, that is kind of an interesting fact, especially because my mom's political beliefs are a bit odd, so kind of conservative, but socially left, I guess? I'm not really sure. It's kind of odd, but, um, so that was a good thing, though. My mom was really supportive of me, and she was there for me, so I was very– I consider myself very, very lucky and grateful to have that– that support system. You know, the friends that I surround myself with, they're supportive as well.
So, that was really great for me, I think. It– it helped me– it helped me get through it. You know, I'm not gonna say that having the abortion, it didn't affect me emotionally. Of course it did. I mean, that was the first time I'd ever been pregnant. That was, I mean, that was like my first, my first intro into what it might be like to have a child and be a mom. So it was hard on me afterwards for a little bit, but it all worked out. Okay, but that was– so that was in 2017, and well, it was actually late 2016, and yeah, it was like, super late the year, like, October, November, but then after that, the next year in 2017, I actually got pregnant with my daughter, so it wasn't even a year later, it was about a year later from when I had the, um, that first abortion, that I got pregnant with my daughter, and I was definitely scared, uh, you know, I– I definitely didn't think I could go through with another abortion, so, um, I did decide to keep her, obviously, since she is here now and thriving, but, yeah, I mean, still me and my husband, boyfriend at the time, um, weren't really doing that great then either. So, um, just kind of off and on a little bit, just back and forth, not knowing how our relationship was going to turn out. So adding our daughter into the mix, getting pregnant with her was just so– It felt like the worst possible time to have that happen to me, but it always kind of seems like when the things that you feel are going to ruin your life completely, things kind of just start working out after that.
[00:26:01]
I don't know if it's– it's the law of the universe. Things have to go really bad and then they start getting really good. But that is kind of what happened. So, um, I got pregnant with her in 2017, um, and I did stay in college while I was pregnant with her, but she was born in June [redacted]. That is her birthday, and her name is [Redacted]. I decided not to go back to college after that, just because I was in band, I was in the band program. Um, at that time, marching band was a requirement, so I just didn't feel like I was ready to go back. Uh, ‘cause marching band would have been starting in August, so, you know, first time mom, I just, it didn't feel– I didn't feel right to go back at that time, so I didn't– I didn't go back. Um, I was working at Starbucks at the time, so, you know, finances were an issue, of course, you know, it's not like you're making good money working there for sure, so it was just, it just worked out that way, but I didn't– I didn't go back, um, me and my husband, we did– we did– our relationship got better over the course of the time that I was pregnant with her, so by the time she was born, I mean, we were– we were in a much better place than we had been.
So, um, yeah, we were living with my– my parents at the time. My mom, um, just kind of stay in our one bedroom. And that is how we were living when she was born. We didn't have our own place. We were just kind of trying to make it work until we could get our own place and we did, eventually, um, I think maybe she was a year old. Then we moved to the next town over, which is called [Redacted]. Um, it's about a 15 minute drive from– from our home town of [Redacted]. And that's where we lived for the next three years. We lived there for quite a while. It's a– it's a nice town. It's a little bit bigger, quite a bit bigger, I think. Um. And [Redacted] is a little bit nicer of a town to live in. Um, but yeah, and then, kind of as things were going on, me and my husband, we did decide we got married, um, a year after our daughter was born. We got married [Redacted]. Everybody loves to tell me how that's [Redacted]. I'm like, well, I guess I'll never forget that now. Um, but yes, we did get married about a year after she was born. Um, and then things are just kind of going on as– as normal as a married couple with a young kid and things are good. Um, COVID happened in 2020 and that was, um, yeah, it was interesting times. Uh, I was still working at Starbucks at the time, but they did a program where you could stay at home, um, completely paid for, by the way. Um, and yeah, I just got to stay home with– with my daughter during that time. So I think it was like, it was a couple of months that I was able to stay home with her. And then this is kind of where me and my husband decided that we wanted to try again. We wanted to– we wanted to have another baby. That's– that's what we wanted to do.
So, um, we started, we started planning for that. We started trying to do that. Um, my husband kind of felt like it was, you know. We should go ahead and start trying to do this because, um, his line of work, too– He's– he's pretty busy. Um, he's a [redacted]. He did get his [redacted] degree from– from [redacted] where we were going to school. Um, so he finished his degree and he's a [redacted]. Um, [redacted] can be– can be intense, especially during the fall. I mean, you have [redacted] going on. Um, so it's– it can be pretty busy. Um, he was kind of– he was a newer [redacted] because he actually graduated the week after we got married. So, 2020, that was his first year [redacted].
[00:30:34]
So, kind of– kind of planned for how that was going to work for us as a family. But we did, we started trying to have another baby and, um, and I did, unfortunately, I had, I had three miscarriages. The first two that I had were very early. It was actually, and this– this is all happening during lockdown by the way, I was in the house doing nothing just by myself and, you know, I'm like, “Oh, yay, I'm– I'm pregnant!” I would take a pregnancy test and it was awesome. And then about a week later, I would miscarry and that happened twice. So that was before I wasn't even six weeks pregnant when I– when that happened. And then we were going to try again, for a third time, we got pregnant a third time. And I kind of started feeling like everything was going to be okay. I made it past the point where I was normally having the miscarriages. So, it kind of felt like this was going to be it. This was going to be the one. Um, I got in to see my OB and I went in for like a routine ultrasound at that time I was, I would have been ten weeks pregnant, and unfortunately there was no heartbeat. Um, so I did not, I did not end up carrying to term with that child. Um, that was really, really hard for me because, you know, this was during COVID. So nobody could be there with me just due to the rules that they had. Um, they wouldn't let any, um, anybody go to those appointments with you. So I was alone when I got that news.
I was alone in the Doctor's office when the nurse came to confirm what– what was going on. So that was– that was really rough. I would say that was kind of traumatic a little bit. And I do feel like that, I mean, you know, COVID it is– it's serious, but I do feel like that was a little bit ridiculous that you couldn't bring, like, your husband or something with you, but, um, at that point, that was kind of when the doctors were like, okay, well, something is definitely going on here.
Um, it's– it's not– it's abnormal to have three miscarriages in a row. So, um, and I just wanted to say, God bless my boss. At the time I had quit Starbucks and I started working at a place called [Redacted] as a, as, um, a [redacted] and a front office staff. I still work there to this day. Um, I had only been working there for a week at most when this happened and she was so understanding of my situation, and I elected to have a D&C instead of passing the fetus naturally. So I was down for the count for a couple of days recovering from that.
[Editor’s Note: D&C, or dilation and curettage, is a procedure typically performed after a miscarriage in the first trimester of pregnancy. It includes dilating/opening the cervix and removing the tissue and placenta in the uterus. D&C may be necessary if the miscarriage is incomplete and the contents of the uterus do not naturally expel. Dilation and curettage is not always necessary after miscarriage; about 50% of miscarriages do not require D&C.]
But she was so amazing to me during that time, she brought food to my house, so I didn't have to worry about what we were going to eat for dinner and it was just truly amazing of her. But, yeah, at that point the doctors were like, “we need to investigate this.” So that's what they did. They started investigating what was going on and why I was having multiple miscarriages in a row, recurrent miscarriages. And after so much blood work and testing and doctors visits they discovered that I do have a rare autoimmune condition.
[00:34:29]
It is called antiphospholipid syndrome or APS for short. Um, other names for that condition are Hughes syndrome, and sometimes they call it sticky blood syndrome. So, um, essentially what it means is that my body is more prone to clotting, um, and in most people, this will occur during pregnancy. So, that is– that is why I was having the miscarriages. I would get pregnant and the, um, extra hormones from the pregnancy were causing me to essentially throw a clot between the, um, in the uterus, I guess, or in later pregnancy, what can occur, what can happen is you can have a blood clot, um, in the placenta. So, in like the umbilical cord. So. That's what was happening. I was having, uh, clots of some kind that were causing me to miscarry. So, um, some of the implications of that are I can't take hormonal birth control. Um, the– when you take hormonal birth control, you are at an increased risk of blood clots. So, I was already at an increased risk because of my condition. So, that's– they told me I couldn't take– couldn't take that anymore. Um, before that, I, you know, I was taking hormonal birth control. I took the, um, pill. I had taken the mini pill after I had my daughter, so that way I could continue breastfeeding. And, um, at one point I had switched to the Nuvaring birth control. Um, I did end up stopping the Nuvaring because it was giving me horrible migraines, which I was not suffering from before. Um, but yeah, come to find out, I have a condition where I shouldn't even take it. So, um, I do consider myself very lucky that I did not, uh, throw a blood clot. So, um, yeah. Um, for right now, I do want to pause for just a second because I'm dropping my nephews off to my sister, if you don't mind.
[00:36:38]
(pause)
[00:36:40]
Yeah, so, birth control, just not for me after I– after I found out– my condition. Um, so that was– that's the next step and in my– my journey here. Um, after three miscarriages, my– my husband kind of felt like, you know, that was– that was enough. We, um, the last time that I the third miscarriage that we had that– that pregnancy was kind of like we got to do it now or we're not going to have another kid for– for a while, so yeah. That didn't work out obviously, so at that point me and my husband kind of felt like, okay, well, we're just going to put this on hold then. I had been told once they diagnosed me with APS that if I were to get pregnant again I would need to start blood thinners. Um, pretty much immediately. So it just would have been a lot of– a lot of work to try and to try and get pregnant again. So we just felt like maybe it just wasn't– maybe just wasn't the right time. Maybe just wasn't in the cards for us. So this was in 2020 and we were kind of doing just natural family planning, kind of planning around my ovulation and fertility windows. Using condoms, you know, since hormonal birth control wasn't– wasn't an option. So, that was– that was how we were preventing, uh, pregnancy at that time. And it was in 2021 when we did get pregnant with our son. His name is [Redacted]. Uh, we call him [Redacted]. He's gonna be two in December, [Redacted]. Um, yeah, 2021, we got pregnant with him. Completely unplanned, for sure. Uh, it's, I always tell people that if you're going to do natural family planning, definitely, um, know that it is not, not, not foolproof, like with anything. But I think people put a little more stock into it when they know when their fertility and ovulation windows are, but I can tell you, it is not 100%. That is what we were doing. My ovulation was exactly as it was supposed to be for like six months prior I'd been tracking it. And when I got pregnant with my son, I– that was the one and only time that I had ovulated outside of the– the window where it normally is. I think it was just a couple days outside of it.
And I knew, I knew immediately that I was pregnant with my son. I knew that's what was going to happen, because, you know, that I just, that I had ovulated. And so I– I knew my husband wasn't going to be happy about it when he found out, because he's always kind of been like that. I think he just, he's, he kind of has a personality where he– he kind of freaks out at first, and then he– then he calms down. So, um, yeah, I was a little bit nervous to tell him because I knew we were not planning for that to happen, but, yeah, I was pregnant with him. I did have to start blood thinners immediately. As soon as I found out I was pregnant with him, I did contact my doctor, and I started seeing a hematologist, and I got prescribed that medication. They were injected subcutaneously, so I had to inject them in my stomach every single day for the duration of my pregnancy and six weeks after. So, that was quite a journey. I always consider myself very afraid of needles. Anytime I ever had to get a shot or blood drawn or anything like that, I was just very, very scared. Um, I would– I would kind of have, like, a visceral body reaction where I would just get sick, um, and not feel well at all. So having to inject myself with blood thinners every day, I definitely was not– not excited about that. Um, that was another reason I, we kind of wanted to put off getting pregnant, uh, again after that third time, after the diagnosis, because I just didn't feel like I would be able to handle injecting myself every day.
Um, but it actually was fine. Uh, if anything, it really kind of cured my– my phobia of needles. So, um, I did that every single day for my pregnancy. I had to go back and forth to [Redacted] constantly, um, to see a maternal fetal medicine doctor. Um, I would always take those trips with my mom. My mom would bring me, um, so I got to know a little bit more about my mom through those rides, too, just kind of understanding her more as a per– as a person and, um, kind of viewing her from a different lens as just my mom. I kind of view– was able to view her more as, um, another adult that has kind of gone through some crazy stuff. So, that was kind of a nice thing that came out of those trips with my mom. Um, but, yeah, the pregnancy was a– was a little bit complicated in terms of my treatment, uh, what I had to do, but it ended up working out just fine. Um, the plan for my son was, for his, his birth, was I was supposed to be induced, uh, because they did not want to run the risk of me going into labor naturally, um, simply due to the fact that I was taking blood thinners.
[00:42:42]
So they wanted to be able to plan it and be able to tell me to stop my blood thinners, um, beforehand. So, that– that was kind of the plan. Um, I was a little bit disappointed about that just because with my– with my daughter, the five year old, um, I did have a natural labor with her. Um, there was no interventions or anything. My water broke naturally at home, um, and I had her– I did have her in a hospital, but, um, no pain meds or anything like that, just was able to let things run their course and do what they're supposed to do. So I– that's– that's– that's what I wanted. You know, I– I– I do believe in, um, modern medicine, of course, but I just felt like giving birth completely naturally with no interventions or anything like that is kind of, um, kind of a spiritual experience in a way, which is probably the most I'll get from something spiritual, because me and my husband aren't religious at all. So we're– we do consider ourselves to be atheists, but it was something kind of special doing it that way.
Um, but yeah, I mean, with my son, the plan was to be induced and I actually– I actually had him naturally, uh, they have– they did tell me that if I were to, um, feel like I was going into labor at all, that I would need to make sure that, um, I did not take my blood thinner at all, but, um, unfortunately I did. There were no signs that I was, um, about to go into labor with him. And then I took my blood thinner, and about thirty minutes later my water broke. So, but it actually ended up working out. My labor with him was pretty– it kind of– it lasted a while. I think it was, um, nine and a half hours. So, that gave time for the blood thinner to kind of work its way out of my system, so, um, I actually was able to have him naturally, exactly as I wanted, so, I always tell people, hey, believe in the power of manifestation because I tell you, it works.
But, um, yeah, so, that is how the birth experience went with my son. It was, it was slow and progressed slowly over time, and I had him exactly the way I wanted. Um, but, for his story, and this is– this is so important for our family and how our family dynamic is, um, we got a call from a state nurse, uh, maybe, five days after he was born, that said that his newborn screening, um, which is when a baby is born in the hospital and they prick their stool, um, and they do the little blood spot test, uh, they test them for certain conditions. So they test them for things like PKU, um, metabolic disorders, and a whole host of other things. I don't even know what all they test for, but, um, a big category that they test for our metabolic disorders and my son, our son, he showed increased, um, fatty acids in his blood. So what that means is that they were pretty certain that he has a metabolic condition. So we got a call from a state nurse about five days after he was born saying that, you know, he tested. Um, positively for this condition called MCADD, M-C-A-D-D, uh, and it is a metabolic condition, and it means that he cannot break down medium chain sets. So essentially, in a normal healthy person, if you have your blood glucose, your blood sugar, and if you go a long time without eating, if you're fasting, or maybe if you're sick or something like that, and you're just not keeping that blood sugar up, um, your body will start to break down fats for energy. And that is a really important process of how the body works and how it keeps, um, keeps everything running, and how you have energy, and it's a very, very important process. Um, but, unfortunately, our son, he can't do that, so if he ever is in a situation where he can't, uh, if he can't eat, or he hasn't eaten, or he's sick, or something like that, um, and his blood sugar goes down, he has nothing, he has nothing left, nothing left to keep his– his body running, it would be like trying to drive a car with– with no gas, essentially. So, and, you know, if you try to drive a car with no gas, it's going to start breaking down.
[Editor’s Note: MCADD is a genetic metabolic condition that effects the body’s ability to break down fats and turn them into energy. It is a rare condition that effects about one in 50,000 births globally.]
[00:47:42]
You're going to ruin the engine and it's– it's not going to work. So that's kind of the same thing that happened with– with him. So we got that call from the state nurse. They did advise us that we needed to seek out a hospital. She seemed pretty urgent over the phone, the state nurse did, so that was kind of scary. I– I definitely think that they need to maybe train them better on how to give this news, um, because she kind of made it sound like he was– he was in immediate danger, which he kind of– he could have been, um, if I wasn't feeding him as often as needed for– for how– for his age and his condition. So, at that– at that age, when he was a newborn and infant, um, it was every two hours on the dot. Um, you know, even if it was a little bit less, less than two hours, but we were advised not to go over two hours. So, she said that we needed to get to the hospital immediately and get him more genetic testing to definitively confirm this condition. So, we headed over to one of our local hospitals, and this was still– COVID was just still running rampant because this was in 2020– ‘21. Um, you know, it– there was still lots of, uh, protocols and precautions being taken and stuff, and hospitals were filled to the brim with people, and our local hospital, they had no idea what we were talking about. Not a clue. Uh, his condition is pretty rare. Um, it's one in 15,000 live births in the US. Um, a child will be born with this condition. Um, so nobody really knew what it was. I mean, we for sure didn't know what it was. Um, and it's genetic as well. So, my son, he had to inherit a faulty gene from both me and my husband, and there's a one in twenty-five percent chance, or there's a twenty-five percent chance that a child, if you– you and your spouse, um, both have the faulty gene that a child will inherit it. So one in four– one in four chance, twenty-five percent chance, and it just so happened that he was the one in four, so it's super rare that somebody will be born with this condition. Um, yeah, I went to the local hospital. They had no idea what we were talking about. Had no idea what– what to even do. They said they weren't– they didn't even have anything to– to test him with. They– they just weren't set up for that kind of thing. So they put us in touch with our local children's hospital, or not local, but, um, the closest one to us, which is about two hours away from where we live, but they put us in touch with the Children's Hospital, which is called Texas Children's Hospital. It's actually one of– the number two best Children's Hospital in the country. So, I do consider us to be very, very incredibly lucky to be able to go to that facility. But they put us in touch with them, and they just told us over the phone kind of everything we needed to know, kind of a crash course on MCADD, and they set up an appointment with us to meet with them, and it was the day before my birthday that we drove out there to– to Houston, Texas, uh, to meet with the geneticists and the metabolic team. So, um, yeah, I mean, imagine going through that. You have– you've had three miscarriages. You just have– you got pregnant with the– your fourth pregnancy after– after three miscarriages, this is like a miracle situation. You know, you're trying your best to keep this pregnancy healthy and you're so nervous for every little thing that– that happens or every little thing that could go wrong.
[00:51:48]
And then get a call from a state nurse five days after he was born saying, “Hey, he has this rare condition.” Like, he could die, basically. So, it was extremely stressful for us. Um, me especially, because I was breastfeeding him, and I'm having to wake up one to two hours, like every– every one to two hours to feed him. Make sure he's okay. So, um, it was– it was hard for sure. And it's gotten better as he's gotten older, you know, he's almost 2 now. So, we've come a long way since he was a newborn. Um, he can now safely go ten hours between his meals. So, pretty much like any other kid. Um, he's, you know, pretty, pretty standard now, you know, for the main– main part, we just make sure that he's eating lots of complex carbs and proteins and things that are going to provide him fuel for longer. That's going to keep his blood sugar up for longer. But, um, you know, it is always in the back of my mind that something could go wrong. Uh, you know, there's a little bit of anxiety there about that, having a child with a long term condition. You know, it feels like every morning when I wake up, when I go to wake him up to feed him his breakfast, uh, it's like a sigh of relief that he's– he's still breathing every morning. So, that is– That's– that's the hard part about it. I think even though he is– he is a healthy child, um, we only had one incident with a hospital stay because he had a little sore on his tongue. He didn't want to eat. Um, we did drive to the Texas Children's Hospital, Texas Children's. They took great care of him and he was fine. But, um, it's always there in the back of my mind that something could go wrong. So, um, and that is a big reason why, two kids, that's enough, that's enough for us. We got lucky with our daughter that she's fine and everything was great, and then our son, you know, he's medically complicated in a way, and the pregnancy was complicated, and after that– that was it. We just wanted no more.
And then another big factor is, I was lucky enough to be on my mother's health insurance still when I was pregnant with my son. Um, right after, pretty much right after he was born is when I got kicked off because I turned 26. So, uh, I was able to afford the medication that I needed and the doctor's visits that I had to go to. And, um, after I got kicked off her insurance, it was like, okay, well, that worked out perfectly. Um, yeah, no more kids after that. You know, I don't have health insurance now. Um, it's just too expensive. It's, you know, I don't– I mean, I don't make that much money as a [redacted]. Um, and my husband is a [redacted], so [redacted] is not exactly the best either. He does have health insurance for the kids, so that's, you know, that was kind of a necessity, especially with, um, [Redacted] conditions, so. Um, but it's just too expensive to have me on it, and honestly I'm pretty healthy as an adult for the most part. I don't get sick or anything. So, um, yeah, I just don't have health insurance. So doing anything medical or health-wise just really isn't– isn't gonna work out because health care in America, just even with insurance, it's too expensive. So, um, yeah, definitely weren't planning on having any more kids after that whole fiasco, but that's kind of where the next part of the story begins.
[00:55:58]
Um, it was only a few months ago now, um, that me and my husband did, uh, accidentally, of course, um, get pregnant with, um, another child. And I– I– from the moment that I had a feeling that I was– that I was pregnant, um, yeah, having that child was just not even an option for us, um, just with the medical conditions for me, personally, having to take blood thinners that I– I can't afford now because I don't have health insurance, and knowing that we would be running the risk of having another child with MCADD, it just– that was not going to– that was not going to work for us, um, medically or financially. We did end up buying a house, um, in [Redacted], but it's only a two bedroom house, so both of our kids share a room. Um, so, if we added a third kid into the mix, where would they go? I mean, where– where would their bedroom be? Like, I don't, it wouldn't work. So, that just wasn't going to be an option. You know, daycare is crazy expensive, too. Um, So, there's just no way that was going to work. Um, but, I mean, we live in Texas, so I mean, we didn't even know what– what our options were going to be in terms of terminating a pregnancy. Uh, you know, we can't go to the local Planned Parenthood. That's not going to work. So, my– my mom had actually suggested that we could always try making a family vacation to Kansas. So, uh, I mean, that was, if we got desperate enough, that was what we were– that was what we were going to do. Honestly, I was hoping that it would kind of just take care of itself, just because I do have the history of miscarriage.
So, you know, I thought maybe I would, I would get lucky, so to speak, and I wouldn't have to– I wouldn't have to face it. I wouldn't have to deal with it. It would just terminate on its own, but the weeks started coming and going and nothing was happening. So, you know, at that point, it was– it was time to do something about it. Take action. Because I did– the last thing that I wanted was for me to continue on with this pregnancy, hoping that I would miscarry, but the further along that I would get, the more dangerous that would be for me and for, you know, the baby, you know, I wouldn't want to continue on, and it gets too late now every day. I'm just worried that either one of us will be healthy and okay. So that was when we started looking more into, um, everything, and online and seeing kind of what our options were. I was looking at Planned Parenthood Kansas, actually, trying to see, you know, if that would be even within the realm of possibility to travel out there and kind of looking more into their resources, and that was where I came across Aid Access. So, we looked more into that and I was like, okay, so we can just get the pills online? We looked more into that, kind of trying to look into the legal ramifications if we were to do that, you know, we weren't sure if it was, like, illegal for me to take these pills, so, you know, that was a bit nerve wracking, I think.
[00:59:58]
Um, my husband did some more digging online. He read some Reddit threads of people who had, um, experience working with Aid Access before, and they were all good experiences. I don't think anybody had anything bad to say, so that kind of reassured us, um, quite a bit that, this was– this would work. So that's what we did. We kind of just, you know, bit the bullet on that and we ordered the pills online. Um, and then, you know, kind of fingers crossed everything was going to be okay. Um, you know, I got plenty of email correspondence back and forth telling me exactly what to expect and what to do when the pills arrived. So, um, I felt pretty confident. Um, you know, and it just definitely felt like the right thing for us to do for sure. So, the pills did come in the mail about, uh, just a couple days before they were in, they were expected. So I think it was about a week from when we ordered them to when they were received. Um, I believe they– they were postmarked to come from Vermont. So, uh, yeah, that's, I believe that's where they came from. Um, they arrived in the mail. I planned for– I planned to take these pills, um, when my kids went to bed, it would have been too difficult, I think, to plan for them to not be there. You know, we're– everybody's busy and working. So it was over the weekend.
I waited till they went to bed and I took the pills and everything went fine. It went smoothly. Um, you know, I can't lie and say I wasn't a little bit nervous, you know, um, but it wasn't– it wasn't bad at all. I'm– I'm very thankful that I was able to be in the comfort of my own home. My mom came over and she brought me a heating pad and some hot tea, which she knows that I love. So she just sat in there and talked with me for a while, and my husband was playing a– playing a video game on– on TV. So I was just watching him play our PlayStation 5. So, um, it was a relaxing experience, luckily. You know, I wasn't stressed in a stressful environment or anything. Um, I took the pills. That's why I kept them, you know, in the cheek for 30 minutes. And within thirty minutes, it started. So it was a pretty quick process. Uh, pain wise, there really wasn't too much pain. It wasn't anything worse than any period cramps I've ever experienced. Um, honestly, I think I've– I think I've had worse period cramps when I was a teenager. In the heat of marching band on my period, honestly. So, um, painwise, it really wasn't anything to, you know, worry about. Um, by the next day, I wasn't hurting at all. And then it just kind of– It felt like having a period at that point. It really wasn't an issue, so, um, that was how I– that– that was how my experience with Aid Access and home abortion, the medical, um, pill abortions were. It wasn't bad at all. Um, I think, like I mentioned previously, you know, my– the people that I surround myself with are very supportive and they understand and, you know, we all have similar, if not the same, political beliefs, you know, we're– me and my husband consider ourselves to be pretty, like, radical, left leaning.
[01:03:43]
So, um, we're– we believe very much in all of those– those kind of values. Um, gay marriage and free housing and free healthcare and pro-choice. Very much pro-choice. So, um, yeah, I considered myself lucky in that way as well to be able to be surrounded by people who supported my decision. And I was also able to let, you know, people that I care about and my friends and family know that, hey, like if you are ever in this situation, like, I can definitely attest to how easy and pain free it was to be able to do this. So, yeah, I mean, that was kind of how things went there. And now I'm– now I'm here. I don't regret a thing. That was what I needed to do. And I'm just happy and healthy. Now, my story up to this point, give or take a few things. Yeah.
(pause)
[Redacted], I wanted to follow up with when you were talking about your first abortion, I'm just curious about your community, um, had you heard about abortion being an– being an option from other friends or from other family members, or was it– was it work you had done on your own to try and find an alternative, or try and identify family planning, um, opportunities when you were first– when you– when you were first pregnant?
Um, I knew it was an option, and I had always been pro-choice, I mean, as long as I can remember, um, because of my mom's experience working at an abortion clinic when I was younger. So, I knew it was an option. Um, I wouldn't necessarily say it was my first thought to do that. Uh, I was trying to consider maybe how I could make it work, but, um, that, those thoughts aren't really long lasting, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I knew it was an option. Then I– I kind of became more concrete as I started looking more into it online. I had some friends that I was able to confide in, and they were also very supportive of me and kind of helped me weigh all my options and which route that I could go. So, yeah, I mean, as far as it being on the table, it was– it was definitely always there. It was something that I had always considered I might be willing to do if I needed to.
Um, with conditions as they are now in Florida, do you– do you feel like you still have that community access, um, that community network, not only for yourself but for other people that could support you?
Um, yeah, well, I live in Texas, but yeah, I mean, I think it's the same there– But, uh, as far as community support, I do still think it's there. Um, you know, I had it this time too, with my mom and my friends and my sister and everything. So the community part of it is still there. Community support, I guess, that I have, like, in my personal community, it's there, um, but as far as just, like, statewide, and, I mean, it's not there, the– the conditions that are– the political conditions surrounding abortion, and especially in Texas, like, small town Texas, it is not good, um. And I actually dealt with that a lot when I did have the first abortion, um, not anybody saying anything to me personally, but just like reading the things that people would say online, um, about horrible things about people that get abortions, how you're a baby murderer, and you're a killer, and you should be put to death, and it's horrible.
[01:08:28]
Um, it used to really eat away at me, but it doesn't anymore. I don't care what anybody has to say. You can't determine what another person should or shouldn't do with their life, you know, especially with something like that. But, um, yeah, uh, it's living in Texas. It's hard when it comes to abortion access. I– when the whole Supreme Court Decision kind of came down and trigger laws went into effect and in Texas, that was heartbreaking, honestly, I– I just felt completely defeated, especially having a daughter, knowing that if things don't change, she's gonna– she's gonna have less rights than I did when, you know, when she's an adult, she's gonna have less rights than I did at a similar age. It's just difficult to wrap your head around it, so sometimes I wish I could get out of Texas, but, you know, just with the way the economy is and wages and stuff, it's just not possible, so, yeah, things aren't good here, I would say.
Um, [Redacted], what are the kinds of things that you do today with your family, um, or even for yourself that bring you joy or bring you respite?
Yeah, honestly, I got into reading again. I used to read a lot as a kid, but as an adult, it's kind of hard to get into– back into, but I have started reading some more. I've gone through a couple book series now, so I try to do that when I do have a little bit of downtime to myself, and me and my husband are both avid video game players, so I do play, um, a lot of video games, or I watch him play a lot of video games, since we only have the one console, so, and the one TV. Um, but, playing and watching video games is super fun for me. Um, we watch a lot of YouTube, actually, a lot of food YouTube. So, um, I love just sitting down and watching, lik,e Good Mythical Morning and, um, Adam Ragusea, he does, like, cooking, home cooking YouTube and Binging with Babish. That's another big food YouTuber. So, um, I just love watching those videos. I definitely watch YouTube more than I watch regular TV for sure, but, um, yeah, we also watch a lot of anime, um, Japanese animation. We're big nerds of anime. I actually have a tattoo of an anime character, but yeah. Definitely seen a lot of anime for sure, so. Yeah, I would say that's kind of what we do in our free time other than wrangling those wild kids for sure.
[Redacted], is there anything anecdotally you might want to share about your professional life? Anything about what you like about work or what you do specifically?
[00:00:00]
Yeah, I– so I work as a [redacted]. Like I mentioned, it's a place called [redacted]. So we do [redacted]. Um, and I– I love the work that I do. So I mainly just do, like, front desk stuff. You know, I enter the phones and I verify people's health insurance benefits and schedule appointments and stuff like that. But I get a lot of interaction with, uh, the patient. So, and it's– it's really, really rewarding work to be able to see people come into the office, not feeling good, not, you know, hurting. Um, and then we take care of them with– with a smile on our faces. You know, I've had so many people say how much they just love coming to the office because they, you know, it's just, we treat them so well. Um, and they feel– some people have said, you know, this is the first time they've ever felt like somebody cared about their health. So, um, it's super rewarding. I– I love the work that I do. Just being able to help people all day long and be just a– like a happiness in somebody's life, you know, even if it's the only thing they do that day that made them smile, you know, I'm– I'm so glad I can be that for these people. Um, yeah, I honestly, I love it. I love that I do. I've been there for three years now, and there has not been a single day in that entire three years that I have not wanted to be there. And that is– that is monumental. I mean, how many people can truly say that when they go to work, they want to be there? And, you know, and they– they don't have any issues, like it's– I think that's a rare, I think that's a rare thing to find, honestly.
[Redacted], what are the values that you grew up with that you want to make sure get passed to your own kids and what– what do you think you might want to change from what you were raised with?
Um, my mom definitely instilled the value that, uh, like, we can be who we want to be. Um, you know, we– there's– we can do whatever we want to do with our hair. Like, we have creative freedom. And, like, there's– we can just be who we want to be, like, authentically. And I definitely appreciate that. Um, you know, even though things weren't always the best, she definitely did instill that good value in us. And I appreciate that. You know, sometimes I talk with people and they're, you know, in their childhoods and like, “my mom would never let me cut my hair short or dye my hair crazy colors.” But my mom was always like, “well, it's just hair. It'll grow back. You can do whatever you want with it.” Um, so I appreciated her kind of allowing me and my sister to have, um, some– some freedom to express ourselves and kind of artistic freedom in that way. Uh, and my mom is also a very strong, strong person, strong willed person, so she was also very much like, stand up for yourself. Like if somebody, and this is– she did this a lot when we were kids in school too, you know, if somebody is picking on you and they won't leave you alone, and you've done everything, and you've told the teacher, like, okay, well, you know, you could kind of get nasty back. So, very much like stand up for yourself.
[01:15:36]
Like, don't let somebody walk all over you. Um, you know, sometimes people just have to get what's coming to them kind of thing, which that didn't really translate well for me as a kid. Like I said before, I was a very shy kid, um, so I didn't really– I didn't really do that very much, stand up for myself, but, um, I do remember that– her teaching us that when we were kids, so now as an adult, you know, I do– I kind of have a strong sense of justice, um, you know, if I feel like I've been wronged in some way, I can't, like, I can't really let it go, um, and I– I want to make sure that my kids feel that way, you know, I– I've even told my daughter that before, you know, if somebody is messing with you, like, you can, like, you don't have to deal with it. You can just tell them to stop. Um, you know, you don't have to– you don't have to let somebody pick on you or do whatever they want to do to you. Um, you know, you have full right and control over your body and how somebody, you know, what you allow. So being able to kind of instill in– in them. That they need to respect, respect themselves. And, yeah, that was super, uh, that was a really valuable lesson for me, um, to be able to pass along to them. And I think maybe some of the things that I want to change from– from how– the phrase would be, um, you know, it's okay to– to not always be nice to your parents. It's okay to not always say yes ma'am or no ma'am or whatever. My mom is always very yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir. We don't really do that. Um, I'm not a very authoritative parent. So I want my kids to know, like, they can express themselves. They can open up to me and be honest with me. And as long as we have a mutual understanding of– of respect that, like, I'm gonna treat you right and you're gonna treat me right, then, like, that's fine. Like, it doesn't have to be so all the time, unlike how it was when I was a kid, it was very– it was very formal. So that I'd say that was– that'd be important values for me to teach my kids.
Um, [Redacted], are there any last things that you want to share before we– before we finish for today?
Um, yeah, I think– I think it's just important that we remember, like, we don't– we can't– we don't know how a person's life has gone to make them who they are. And I think it's just so important that we– that we treat every person like– like, we want to be treated, honestly, the Golden Rule, but, you know, giving everybody compassion and kindness and the benefit of the doubt, you know, I'm not always the best with that, but I think that is so important to do and, um, you know, just being like a beacon of hope in somebody's life, even if it's something so little as just saying, “Hey, thank you so much!” Like to the cashier at the Starbucks or something, you know, you'd be surprised how something like that can really make somebody's day, but– Being a compassionate person, I think we're missing that today. And I just think it's important that people kind of get back to that. Like, we're people. We're ALL people. And I think we should just try to make the world a better place and not a worse one.
Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to stop the recording.
Okay.
[01:19:57]