Despite a challenging childhood and young adulthood of managing family care, health issues, and navigating her own gender identity, Naomi Barry persevered and earned degrees in elementary education and special education. She discusses the challenges and triumphs of navigating her transition within the education system. Naomi’s ultimate goal is for children to learn how to be good people.

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TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by John Keller

New Brunswick, New Jersey

September 23, 2017

Transcription by Elise Brancheau

Content Warning: Sexual Assault, Suicide Attempt

00:00:00

Great, fantastic, thanks for doing this. So, the first thing I want to say is this is John Keller, conducting an oral history interview on September 23, 2017. We’re located in the theater department of Rutgers University, and I’m interviewing–

Naomi Barry.

Great. And what town do you live in right now?

Long Branch, New Jersey.

Long Branch, New Jersey. Fantastic. So, we’ll just kind of go to the beginning, I guess. Where were you born?

Okay, so, I was born in New Brunswick. I was born at St. Peter’s University Hospital back in August 17th of 1994. It was a really nice day, I heard. My mom used to say that it was really nice; she said it was really hot and I was like, wow, that’s kind of crazy. But, yeah, so I was born into a family of two young parents; my parents were in their early twenties, so like, 24, maybe 25. I had an older brother named Andrew; he’s three years older than me. He is autistic. He has multiple personality disorder, schizophrenia, the autism, and pervasive developmental disorder. And so then came me. A couple years later, my parents had my sister, Elizabeth. She was pretty great. We were kind of best friends growing up, and then kind of when I went to college and stuff, she, we kind of just got separated a little bit.

What’s the age difference?

Two years.

Two years.

00:01:42

Yeah, I’m two years older than her. But we were kind of brought up like Irish twins, my mom always says, and that’s why we were really, really close, and I don’t know, I’ve always loved her, but we’ve kind of just drifted apart and now we’re kind of picking it back together. And then ten years later after I was born, my mom and dad had another son, named Aiden, and so I’m ten years older than him. That was a big age gap, but I actually thought that he was my child; I tried telling everyone that he was my child. I wanted him to call me “Mommy” when he started to talk, because I was like, “Oh, it would be great if I could have a child.” But he’s great, but he also has autism as well, and oppositional defiant disorder, and mild schizophrenia, so it’s always just kind of been inside my family. So those are my siblings.

00:02:32

Then, well, we were like any other normal siblings; we played outside forever, we never came in until the street lights came on, my parents would be yelling that it’s dinner or whatever. If they ever yelled our first and middle name we knew we were in trouble. [laughter] But it was always fun. And then in July of 1999, I got really sick. I was sitting on the windowsill, looking outside, and something just didn’t feel right. And I was nervous about leaving my parents; they were going to go away for one of their wedding anniversaries or something, but actually their wedding anniversary is in April, but it was July at this time. So we were staying at my grandparents’ house, and I told my grandparents that I wasn’t feeling well, something was wrong, and they said that it was okay, got me some soup, whatever, and told me to go to sleep. So I went to sleep, and then the next morning apparently my aunt was trying to wake me up, and I was blue. And so then all I remember after that was I woke up at Robert Wood Johnson, here in New Brunswick, and all I remember was white, white everywhere, lights and white walls and it was just so crazy.

00:04:00

And Pete’s Dragon. Pete’s Dragon was on, and it’s super weird, but it’s all I can remember. So they did a whole bunch of tests and stuff and I couldn’t really breathe, so it turns out that inside my neck I had leukemia that was multiplying too fast and kind of just was there. So from that point until about December of ’99, I was in chemotherapy, and I was in radiation, and it was really scary, being four years old. I lost my hair, so now my hair is really precious to me because, you know, it’s something so stupid but to me it was very important, because having to lose that, you know, and not really think that you would lose it because you’re four years old and you shouldn’t lose your hair, but– that kind of happened, and I made it through, which was nice. I was actually told I was in remission on Christmas in ’99, and I can still remember I was wheeled out on a wheelchair and the nurses gave me a teddy bear and it was snowing, and it was really nice, it’s a nice calm memory, so that was really nice.

00:05:15

Throughout school, then, I was trying to fit in because I got made fun of because my hair was still growing back in, and I didn’t really fit in with the boys, and I didn’t really fit in with the girls, and I knew something was wrong because I– I don’t know, I didn’t identify with anybody, and when my brother was born in 2004, I was in fourth grade, and we were starting to learn about the birds and the bees, and I don’t know, it kind of skidded me out. I was like, “Ugh, I don’t know, that doesn’t really seem right.” And I remember raising my hand or something and I told them that I wanted to have a baby. And they took me out in the hallway and they were talking to me—and I hate this teacher to this day—she was like, basically, “Well you can have a baby, you know.” And I’m like, “No, like, I want to have the baby.” And she’s like, “I don’t understand what you mean,” and I was like, “I want to physically give birth to the baby.” And she was like, “Oh my god! No! Boys don’t do that.You know, you’re the one that creates the baby.” And I was like, “Yeah, but I don’t want to do that.” So that was my first, kind of questioning experience of whether I was the right gender or not, or whether I was identifying with the sex that I was born in.

00:06:45

From that point forward, it kind of all made sense to me that I was different because in my household, gender norms was not really a thing. My mom kind of did whatever they had to do, my dad did whatever they had to do, like my dad usually washes the dishes and cooks, my mom usually cuts the grass, it’s a very, like, not typical. So I don’t know, it was just for me, like I’m like, now, “What the fuck are you talking about?” It was super weird. So, I never really identified with my dad, who was very hyper-masculine, and I couldn’t handle the pressure, I guess, because at that point, when I was their son, I was their only typically-functioning son, because my older brother was not functioning, and Aiden was just born, and he was obviously functioning a little bit slower, so I just felt a lot of pressure on me. So I don’t know, I just was like, “I don’t really know what to do about friends and things like that.” So I kind of didn’t let it bother me, and I kind of just worked really hard in school. I’ve always worked really, really hard in school. So a little bit later after Aiden was born– I think my real push toward motherhood once again was, I went to school and I saw the cops pull up to my house. It was very, very strange; I didn’t know what was happening, but Aiden stopped breathing, and I didn’t know, I just went to school, and when I came home, my grandma and grandpa were there, and they’re never usually there and I’m like, “What the heck?” And then he stopped breathing, and I was kind of devastated because I told my parents, I wanted him to be my child, like I was telling everyone that I’m his mother [laughter], you know, all this kind of stuff.

00:08:41

But after that I grew really, really– more close when he was kind of good to go, but that’s when a lot of the other secondary characteristics of problems were coming in. By that time, I was about twelve years old. At that point, my dad had this one boss who was really, really nice, and he had a son that was kind of close to my age, he was about 16, and I was about 12, and we used to go up to their house just to like, party, you know, whatever, it would be like Fourth of July, and then Labor Day, and then we’d go for Christmas trees, because they lived in Pennsylvania, and my parents said that the Christmas trees were always better in Pennsylvania because they were bigger. And I was like, “Whatever.” So I was very– I kind of was– not timid or anything like that, but I just didn’t want to go. I didn’t want to do those kind of things, like I didn’t find them interesting, and they didn’t captivate me, so I wanted to stay home. And so this other kid, you know, my boss’s son, was like, “Oh yeah.” I mean, my dad’s boss’s son, was like, “Yeah, I’ll stay with him,” you know, whatever. So I’m like, “Okay,” I was minding my business, playing, whatever. He was like, “I have to show you something in my room.” I was like, “Okay.” So I go up to his room, and he puts on video games, and I hate video games. I think they’re very– not good. [laughter] Like, I’d rather read a book, like I really don’t care about video games. The next thing I know, apparently my pants are off, and he is molesting me, and I didn’t know what was happening, because I’d never had that kind of contact before. So I never told anyone for years, and I mean like, years; I just told my parents a couple years ago. Because he unfortunately passed away, and my parents were like, “Oh, why don’t you want to go?” And I was like, “‘ Cause I don’t want to go.” And they kept pushing me and pushing me and I was like, “Because he molested me, okay? We’re done with this conversation.”

00:10:49

So when that happened, I guess it kind of pushed me to fancy men more like– and I always have fancied men more, because I didn’t identify as hypermasculine; I was driven to those who were masculine, and it could be anyone who was portraying masculinity. So then I went through middle school and I had a really tough time, like a really tough time. I remember in sixth grade I told this one girl, I said, “Oh, this guy is really cute for you.” That’s it; I did not say “for me” [laughter], I didn’t express anything like that. She told the whole school that I thought this guy was cute, I just was like, “Okay, maybe I think he’s cute?” I just thought he was nice for her! So I got bullied a lot, pushed down the hallway, shoved into lockers, books knocked out of the hands, I was just like, “Okay, whatever,” kind of just tried getting back up again. I’ve been told I’m a very resilient person, so I’m like, okay, you know, whatever, we’ll get through it. And then I went to high school, same kind of thing until about 11th grade; 11th grade, my whole life kind of turned for the worse.

00:12:06

There was a big ice storm in January of 2011, and my dad’s actually a gravedigger, and so he works for, you know, a cemetery, and then he worked for the church, and a funeral home and stuff like that, and I don’t know, it was like a state of emergency and no one was allowed on the roads, and my dad had to go in for the church– don’t ask me why, the church wanted him to go in, so he went in and he was shoveling, and there was hidden ice, and he fell down all these flights of stairs, so he was actually in a coma in January to about May-ish. He woke up, he thought George W. Bush was still president, he didn’t realize he had kids. You know, he still tells us to this day, like, “I think I’m your father because you tell me I’m your father.” And so I think that that kind of is a little bit of a struggle because, like, how could you forget so much, but it’s obviously something that’s out of his control. But while that was happening, my mom decided it would be okay just to get gastric bypass surgery, just because. And she did it in April and had a complication; had peritendinitis and was going to die, and I was sixteen years old trying to make a decision. I had them do an emergency surgery, and luckily she turned out to be okay, but it was really difficult. It was difficult to be sixteen years old and have to depend on just myself, taking care of two brothers that are severely special needs and having a sister who didn’t want anything to do with anything. It just kind of fell on me and I really didn’t want to count on my grandparents and stuff like that, and, you know, there were times when Aiden would miss the bus to school and I’m like, “Oh shit, this is not happening,” and I would drive without a license because I had to. Like, I had to get him to school, so I’m like, okay, you know, whatever.

00:14:09

So that was when I was 16, and it kind of took some time to develop my relationship with my parents again. Then in 2012 I graduated from high school, and I was the first person from my family to graduate from high school, you know, besides my parents, but like, you know, actually study hard, and I was on a path to college and things like that. And I was kind of having issues about leaving college that I’m the glue of my family, and I was afraid that if I moved away that things would kind of fall apart, because I wanted to go far away because I was the glue to my family. So I committed to Towson University in Maryland because it was three-and-a-half hours, and it was just far enough from home but also just enough close to home. I committed there, and I was originally a secondary education major for English with a minor in women and gender studies because I found this fascination with gender. When I found that fascination with gender and stuff like that, I was also finding that I wanted to help people that were special needs as well. So I kind of really couldn’t declare my major because I was going from one to the other to the other. I was actually admitted as a nursing major, but when they had us talk about, you know, what our actual majors were going to be, I was like, “I know I decided on nursing, but I’m actually gonna switch that.”

00:15:45

So then I was just elementary education for a while, and then I found this beautiful program that was elementary education and special education. So I was like, “Oh, this is perfect,” you know, I could get dually certified and it would just be great for job openings and it’s just something I’m passionate about. So I decided that it was for me, and my first year at college was pretty okay. I liked being independent, and it was just, it was nice because it was like a culture shock, but in a good way. Although, in October of my freshman year, I don’t like to talk about it that much, but a guy raped me, and that’s how I lost my virginity, and it was kind of very emotionally scarring, and I went home afterward– it was when Hurricane Sandy was happening, and it was really upsetting because I felt like I was taken advantage of just because I was a very effeminate gay male, and so it was very difficult.

00:16:51

And at that point, I was still questioning about whether I still fit in the right gender or not, because of how I was treated, I guess. So then in 2013 I just came back with a good attitude; you know, right after Hurricane Sandy, I was fine, and then, you know, with 2013 I was like, “This is great.” I was a sophomore, I was a resident assistant for three years; I was doing really, really well. So sophomore year I came back, and then in June I was going to go back early to school because like, you know, school, college ends at like, May, or whatever. I decided I would go back early and take a summer class. My grandmother died, and she was my ultimate best friend, definitely my rock, and just got me through a lot of things. In my mind I kind of said that when she died, Kyle died. I felt like I was taken with her. Everything that was joyous and happy in the world, I kind of lost. I’ve always been a very content child and it was because I was very empowered by my grandmother. And so when I lost her, it was very, very tough.

00:18:17

I can still remember it was very hard for me, I had to be carried out of the funeral home and things like that. And people just don’t realize that when you have a relationship that close, it’s not just because they’re your grandmother, it’s because you feel like your souls are intertwining, and my grandmother had twenty-one grandchildren and I was the only one that she named. So that bond was always there, so when I changed my name legally to Naomi, it was kind of very difficult for me to let go of my grandmother naming me my first name, but at least my middle name I kept that she gave me, so that was pretty good. And she used to always tell me that I was a beautiful child, a beautiful child, beautiful child, so Naomi actually means “beautiful,” so I kind of thought about what my grandmother was doing. But when my grandmother died I did think that Kyle died, and I was thinking more and more about transitioning. I had heard about transgender, and I was like, “Well, I don’t know if I fit, but I could fit, and I’m not too sure.” But I kept researching, and I worked really, really hard in college. I was like, “Maybe it’s just not me, maybe I’m just different, and I just don’t know what I am. And it’s okay not to know what I am.”

00:19:40

So I continued working hard. In 2014 I got a call one day from my mother and it was like, March-ish, so my grandmother had just passed away for a couple of months, you know. And I get a call from my mother that’s like, “Please take care of your siblings.” And I was like, “What the hell is she talking about?” Like, I’m twenty years old, this is so stupid, what is happening? My mother was killing herself. My mother took forty Xanaxes to overdose, and I mean now she regrets it, obviously, because it’s a little bit slower on her cognitive end, but she was just like, “I really need you to take care of your siblings. I know that you can and blah blah blah.” I was three-and-a-half hours away, and I’m on the phone trying to have, like, some kind of understanding about what was happening on the other side of the phone, and I called the police, and nothing could happen when I called then police, they were like, “You’re three-and-a-half hours away, we need someone who’s local.” Which I totally understood, because they don’t want to track my phone and then show up in Towson, like, I didn’t do it, you know. So, I remember calling my sister and stuff like that, but she was with her girlfriend, you know – at this point she came out as a lesbian, and, you know, she was with her girlfriend who’s now her current wife, and I was like, “Okay, great, you guys don’t care, whatever,” so I called my mom’s best friend and luckily she was there, she like flew, I guess; she lives like forty minutes away and got there in like, fifteen, I don’t know how she did it, but she did it. And I remember it was just around midterms and stuff, because the second semester starts in January, so it was like midterms, and I was like, “I can’t get home,” and like, I can still remember to this day, my mother was the worst. She was like, “You don’t care about me, I could’ve died and you won’t come home,” and I was like, “I’m kind of trying to figure out things of myself, and I know that you’re okay because there are other people to take care of you,” you know, whatever.

00:21:54

Then I continued to just work hard; I graduated in 2016 with my bachelor’s and I was actually chosen as the class speaker for my college, for the college of education, which was really nice, because of everything that I gave to the university, I mean I was a resident assistant for three years, I student-taught since sophomore year, I was involved in this housing organization to make resident halls better for three years, I was in the top one percent of student leaders on campus, and I really tried making a difference by being president, and then I actually threw a conference, it was actually called [unclear], it was actually hosted at Rutgers in 2012, but it was nice– I threw the conference, and my specialty was on LGBT youth, because I identified with the community as a gay male, that I was like, I feel like I should give back to, you know, those of my community, so I basically threw a three-day conference where it was teaching people of the LGBT community how to become leaders and not be afraid of heteronormative, cisgendered culture, so that was really nice, so that’s why I was chosen as my class speaker, and I talked, whatever. In 2016 when I came home, it was like May-ish, and I started thinking more and more about becoming a different person and not really knowing who I wanted to be, but kind of understanding. I mean, being trans is a very soul-searching experience, and you have to really know that you’re not the right person as you are showing as.

00:24:03

So I was like, you know, still thinking about it, and I came home; my parents wanted me to move back home, so I rejected all my job offers in Baltimore– came home and I waitressed for a while, and when I was waitressing for a while, I used to always get the same question that I’ve gotten for years. I mean, in high school, I worked at Hollister and I got the same questions was, “Are you a boy or are you a girl?” And I’d never really thought about it, I’m like, “Am I a boy or am I a girl?” I had no idea. I was like, “Well, I don’t know, I’m biologically a boy but I feel like a girl.” And so – and you can’t tell that to a child, because they’re gonna be like, “What the heck are you talking about?” So, I was like, “Well I don’t really know what to do.” So this was about May of 2016, like June-ish, and I was currently looking for jobs, so I was looking for a teaching job, and I loved first grade, and so I was really narrowing my search, and I applied everywhere, like I applied anything that was twenty miles from where I grew up. And I went for some interviews, and nothing. I got no responses or anything like that. I got an interview where I used to work last year, and they were very nice, very kind, very challenging, but they said that they took a chance on me because I was a homosexual male, so they took a chance because they wanted a male in the school, but they also took a chance because of homosexuality. And I was like, “Okay, whatever.” I didn’t really let it bother me.

00:25:44

 And then everything with the election happened with Trump and Clinton and I just, I really didn’t know what was happening because my father’s a very hardcore Trump supporter, and he doesn’t understand that with me being trans, like it hurts, and with my sister being a lesbian and getting married to her wife in 2016, that those things can either be reversed or hurt,  and he just doesn’t care. He’s like, “Well I was thinking about you guys as more financially,” and I’m like, “I don’t really give a crap about me being financially,” like, I had to be able to kind of live my life in a way that, if I give to America, they should be able to give back to me. And so with the whole election thing happening, it was just so terrible, and that was what, November 8th, or something? I went to school on the 9th, and I work in a school– or, I worked in a school that was very diverse. I mean, I had maybe five kids that were Caucasian, and it was very different, it was a different dynamic. And they would come in saying, “I’m going to be deported,” or, “My family’s going to have some issues now with him being president.” And I was like, “Well, I’m definitely going to have some issues too,” because at this point, it was really coming to head whether I thought that I was trans or not, because at this point I did my research and I really knew about what transsexuality was. So about a week later after the election, I came out as trans, saying that I just always felt more like a woman, and in college I dressed like a woman on Halloween and things like that, and I was very into the drag essence of culture, and it’s beautiful, it’s an art.

00:27:48

And you know, RuPaul’s Drag Race is still one of my favorite shows and I watch it religiously because it’s art, not because I find it entertaining, I find it because it’s beautiful, it’s art, and especially because Peppermint was trans this past season, and I thought that that was a very valid connection to me, and it made me feel very valid, that it was being represented in mainstream media, because they moved to VH1 to make it more mainstream, and here’s a trans woman on VH1, kind of in similarity or conjunction with Laverne Cox. So I came out as trans and I decided to talk to my principal, my supervisor, and the superintendent, well, the assistant superintendent. They all were very supportive in the beginning, they were really, really great, you know, asking what they could do, you know, how this was going to happen, like, with next year, and, like, you know, whatever. And I was telling them, I’m, like, “Yeah, I’m going to come back as ‘Miss’ next year, and I just want to make sure that this is as very least restrictive as possible to myself and my students.” ‘Cause I loved my students, they were really great. And they were very supportive, and then I started hormones in January. Well, my body must have adhered to the hormones very, very well, because I was developing by March, and March was kind of where things were happening, you know, with like, getting rehired and things like that, and I had my evaluation in– April? Yeah, in the beginning of April, and they were like, “You were such a great teacher,” like, you know, all this stuff, I mean, like, “You had like, two minor outfit discrepancies,” and things like that, which were fine, I was like, “Whatever.” And they were like, “But we need to talk about next year.” And I was like, “Okay.” You know, I really didn’t want to talk about next year because obviously, I was nervous about what would happen. So, I’m sitting there and I’m talking with them, and it’s just me and my principal and the union rep, and she was talking about how she didn’t know what to do with me next year– basically put it just like that, she didn’t know what to do with me next year, because I had really good ratings, so I couldn’t be fired, and you know, she really liked how I was as a teacher, and that the students really liked me, and the staff, and she was like, “I just don’t really know what to do.” And I just felt like, since I came out as trans, I was very, very hard on as, you know, she was very, very difficult for me. She’s a great person and everything like that, but I think that she made my transition much harder.

00:30:34

And I was trying my hardest, like trying to cover up everything, I had cardigans on that were covering, you know, like my bras and things like that, like nothing was showing, I mean obviously my facial features were changing and things like that, so, those were things I can’t hand and I couldn’t help. Well, so anyway, she was talking about next year, and she was like, “Well I really don’t know what to do because I want to keep you in first grade, but it could cause a problem with parents and the media and whatnot,” and I was like, “Okay.” And I was like, “Well I kind of don’t want to be the center of attention, like I really just want to teach, that’s it, I just want to teach my kids, I don’t want this to be a big production.” So she said that she would put me in self-contained, because I had the dual certification for special ed, but I told her that I didn’t want self-contained because of my brothers, which I wanted to be respected, because that’s not fair, like, I have it as my life and, obviously I would do everything for them, but you can’t live it 24/7 because then it’s very difficult. So I said no, and she phrased it as I could be “put into hiding,” and I was like, “Well, I don’t really think that it would be hiding, because you would see me on bus duty, you’d see me at assemblies, like, there’s things like– you just can’t hide me.” So we kind of clashed heads, and I was, you know, crying and things like that, because I didn’t– I felt like someone who supported me did not support me anymore, and it was crumbling in front of me. And the last thing she said was that she was sorry, but that she hired me as a man. And I was like, “Well, I’m not a man, so I don’t really know what you want me to say. You know, and you hired me because I’m me, like you didn’t hire me because I’m a man, at least that wasn’t how I took it.”

00:32:27

So I asked her for the transfer papers and I met with the assistant superintendent, who was wonderful. She met with me and she was like, “Where do you want to go?” And I said I really didn’t know anywhere. So she said what she thought, and she placed me there, and it was a done deal, and she was really, really great, you know, she asked about my, you know– off the record, she was like, “Not as the assistant superintendent, just as a person, tell me about your transition? How’s it going to look when you come back next year?” And it was just very nice. It was nice that someone who did say that they would support me, and I don’t see every day, still supported me. And she was really great; unfortunately she was let go, and they have another assistant superintendent who’s really nice as well, but she left but before she left she made sure that I was in good hands with a nice principal, I had a good staff that was going to be resilient, and that my students would still love me, and whatever. So, this new principal was wonderful; I met with him, he’s like my favorite person ever. He honestly did everything for me. He knew everything. We sat down, and I just wanted to talk with him, you know. I buzzed into the building, and I didn’t know how to say anything. They were like, “Oh, may I ask your name?” And I was like, “Uh, I don’t really know,” I was like, “My last name is Barry–” because I didn’t know who knew what. So I kept it kind of low-key; I sat down and the secretary didn’t know how to address me. She didn’t know if she could address me as “she” or “he,” so I just sat there. So the principal came; the principal was very nice, knew the story, knew the background, but I was invited to campus before, but he was absent, and I was like, I need to wait for him because I really need to talk to him before I meet anybody.

00:34:23

So I met with him; he was very nice. I said, “I don’t know what you already know, but I’m a trans woman and I’m going to be coming to your school, and I don’t want it to be a big production,” kind of thing. He was like, “No problem, we’ll support you the whole way,” he’s like, “Can I just have pronouns and things like that?” Which was super big of him, especially in the realm of education; I mean, he’s younger, he’s in the younger generation so he understands. He’s more open-minded. And he was like, “Okay, so you know, that’s great, are you going by ‘Miss’?” And I was like, “Yes,” and he was like, “Are you still going by ‘Kyle’?” And I was like, “No, actually I would prefer to be called ‘Naomi.’” And he was like “That is fine, no problem.” So the day after school ended, I changed my name. I went through all the process; I waited months and months, did it all. It’s done now, but I changed my name and I can remember just crying because it was mid-August, I couldn’t change my name legally till the 31st of August, school started September 5th, I didn’t want– you know, because they tell who the kids’ teachers, like the August 25th or whatever – and I didn’t want parents to see my email for one, because it still said “Kyle,” and then I didn’t want them to see on Genesis, which is like the thing that you take attendance, grades, all that stuff, I didn’t want them to see “Kyle” either. And I remember crying to my principal, and he was like, “No worries, I have your name-change packet right here. It’ll take a two-day turnaround.”

00:36:06

Super great. I went into the office, they took my new ID picture, everything, everything was great. So I’m like, this guy is wonderful, I just love him so much. He’s been very, very helpful. And he still is really great. He’ll check on me with anything that I need, and you know, he’ll even check on my transition and making sure that everything’s okay. And I mean, it was very, very nice of him, and so basically after that kind of happened, I got a call from my mentor, ’cause every first-year teacher gets a mentor, so I had mine last year. And we’re still very, very close, but one of her closest friends is the counselor at my school. And she was like, “I really need to talk to you, because I’m your friend,” and I was like, “Okay–” And she was like, “Your new school knows that you’re trans.” ’Cause I only wanted my administration to know, I didn’t want anybody else to know. Well, apparently they found out, and I mean, it wasn’t a big deal, and it kind of made a relief for me because then I don’t have any secrets.

What do you mean by “the school”?

The whole school body, not the kids

So like, the rest of the faculty–

But the rest of the faculty and staff all found out. So I was kind of nervous, because I was like, “Ugh, I don’t know what to do because this is what I was trying to avoid.” But then I’m a very positive person, so I was like, “You know what, it’s okay. Because then I have no secrets, and everything will kind of be okay.” So I was like, you know what, it’s not a big deal, I’m not going to let it bother me, anything like that. So when my name was getting changed and everything like that and the e-mail was changing, it was perfect, because– it was great. But I was nervous when they found out and then I got close with one of the janitors at my new school; she’s gender-fluid. So I’m like, oh my god, this is great, you know, whatever, I’m talking with her, and she’s like, “I have to tell you about how we found out that you’re trans.” And I was like, oh thank god, because I’ve been wondering about this for like, ever! So she basically told me that one of the after-school people at my old school, I guess they have a district meeting or something, they all met and they went up to one of the people at my current school and they were like, “I heard you were getting a tranny teacher.” And people didn’t like how that came across because obviously that’s something that’s very insensitive and rude, because I hate being called that on any dating app or anything like that.

00:38:47

But so basically, she told me about it, and I was like, “Well, thank you for sticking up for me,” because, you know, she’s identifying as a lesbian now and she’s like, “You know, I had trouble when I first got here, but you know, with the new principal, he’s great,” and whatnot. But she was like, “Yeah, we all kind of just defended you,” which was nice because I didn’t know any of these people! And so it was nice that those teachers were doing that kind of thing, and apparently they all heard that I was a great teacher, they all wanted me on their teams, but I just chose first grade because it’s what I knew and what I would be comfortable with, because it’s only my second year teaching. So I was glad that someone at least told me, and I talked to my colleague, who’s right next door, and she was telling me the same kind of thing, she was like, “Yeah, it’s like the same thing, they were talking about it in the lunchroom.” She’s like, after lunch she went to my principal and told him to place me next to her, like our rooms together, because she could protect me, which I thought was very nice, because that’s a complete stranger who I did not know who was like, I was already getting talked about in the lunchroom last year, so you know, she wanted to kind of take it upon herself, and we’re really close now, like I thought that that was really nice of her. I mean, things might have played out differently if I wasn’t next to her, so I’m kind of very thankful for that. But yeah, now I’m kind of just doing pretty good with school. My kids don’t say anything, they call me “Miss” the whole time, like they think that I’m a girl, and it’s how it should be, like I am a girl and even, you know– the parents are wonderful, they call me “Miss Barry” and it’s super funny because, you know, sometimes I’ll be walking in my classroom and when my kids were trying to get to know me, they think that everyone’s married, and I didn’t have a ring on my left finger, and they were like, a girl kept calling me “Missus” and “Missus” and another boy was like, “No! She’s not a ‘missus’ because she has no ring on her finger,” and I just thought it was so funny that a six-year-old could pick up on that, but whatever! But yeah, they were like, “No, ‘she’ ‘she’ ‘she’” in reference to me, and I think that’s great that kids are very nonjudgmental, because I consider myself as someone who blends in as a typical woman, but not every trans person has that luxury or has that greatness about their genes or whatever it is that makes it easy to pass, and so I’m very thankful in my profession that I can actually easily pass as a woman because it makes it easier with the parents and with the students.

00:41:36

But it’s also a curse at the same time, because with dating, it’s a curse because, I mean obviously we’re in the 21st century and online dating has taken over, like, way too much, so– and it’s not that, like, I’m thirsty or anything like that, I’m just looking for somebody who I want to share something with, because I haven’t been in a relationship for like five years, and it’s because I was doing soul-searching of myself. Now that I know about myself, it’s time for me to kind of look for somebody else. But I was just finding people who were only interested in fetishizing trans women, where they only saw me as a fetish. You know, they were like, “Oh I love a chick like that,” you know, or, you know, “Oh, are you sure that you’re a girl?” Or my favorite was when people were like, “Well you’re really cool, but I’d rather date girls,” and I was like, “But I am a girl.” And [they’re] like, “You know what I mean.” And I’m like, “But I don’t, because I’m actually a girl.” And it’s just so fascinating that in this society, people are so hung up on genitalia. I’m like, this is ridiculous.

00:43:00

So I kind of got off all the mainstream dating apps and I went onto this one for trans women and men, and obviously cisgender males and females as well, because I was matching with a lot of people who were cisgender males because I like men, so if you– even if it was a female-to-male trans person I would obviously date them. So I don’t know, I started on this app, and I found that people weren’t fetishizing it. But a lot of the time they were like, “Oh I’m bisexual, I’m bisexual and you have both parts.” And it’s like– but that is kind of fetishizing it because you’re only wanting me because I have both parts. I didn’t even want both parts, so you know, and it’s kind of like, I ran into a lot of people who were like, “Well why would you just want to convert to a complete-bodied woman?” And I’m like, “Because I am a woman,” like I don’t want to be– some people are perfectly happy with their genitalia but I’m not, and that’s part of the dysphoria, and so I kind of just run into that now and I mean, people say that they’re open-minded which is very, very kind, but then they get hung up on certain things, and that’s kind of where I’m at now. And yes, I think that’s all I have.

00:44:29

Great, thank you so much for sharing!

You’re welcome!

That’s really fantastic. I wrote a few things down as you were talking, just things that, if you’re interested in talking more about?

Sure.

I was just curious– so, when you were kind of like, born in your family unit, where were you guys living at that time?

When I was born– so my brother kept getting my parents kicked out of every place they were at because of the autism and being very–

You mean at the schools?

Active– no, in the housing. So my grandmother, my dad’s mom, she owned a lot of properties, and so they moved into one of her properties, and that’s where they live currently. And so I kind of just grew up there. I mean, I lived in Manville for like six months, and then we got kicked out of that, so, I mean it’s lucky that it was my grandmother’s house, and her sister lived underneath, and my parents just lived on top, and I mean, it’s my grandmother’s only son, so, it was kind of nice.

00:45:35

And is this the grandmother that you were really close with?

No, I actually live with her currently until my new apartment opens in Long Branch. So I’m moving in November.

So it was your mom’s mom that you were really close with?

Yup. And it’s really strange because, I don’t know, I always never really believed in a sixth sense or anything like that, but when I was waitressing, I was having a really hard night, and I mean like, it was so hard. I was in the bar, trying to bartend, and you know, and having a full house of tables, and I just was very stressed out, and this woman came up to me and told me that she needed to talk to me, and I was like, “Okay–” I thought I did something, like her drink was made wrong or something. She’s like, “I’m a medium.” And I was like, “Okay–” And I was like– I’m not really skeptical but I probably was skeptical. And she was like, “Your grandmother’s trying to talk to you.” And I was like, “Okay–” And this is years later, so I’m like, okay you know, and what was very weird was that it was the anniversary of my grandmother’s death. So I’m like, “Okay, maybe it’s kind of real.” And this lady was probably real, because she was like, she walked like my grandmother, she gave me a kiss like my grandmother. My grandmother, she used to put both hands around your head to give you a kiss, but, like, would hold your head and give you, like, a side kiss. And she did that and then she walked like my grandmother; my grandmother had, like, this distinct walk to her because she had a walker. And she was talking to me, she was like, you know, “Your grandmother just wants to say that she’s doing really, really well and that she’s really proud of you,” because I just had graduated college, “She’s been with you for a while, and she’s gonna still look after you,” and whatnot, and then she was telling me things that were totally true, she was like, that my mom is very skeptical of me and very cynical and critical, which was totally true. And she kept saying that I have a very artistic soul and that my– I’m overall just a good person and that my soul is pure like gold. And I was like, wow that was really nice to hear, and I kind of felt like my grandmother was coming through in that aspect, and I kind of felt a little bit of closure, and I kind of felt like that’s where it kind of confirmed that, yeah, I was a beautiful soul and at that time I was starting to think about transitioning, so, it was nice– it was nice to have that kind of experience.

00:48:19

Did you spend a lot of time with your grandmothers growing up? You lived close to each other?

Yeah, so basically, it’s weird. My mom’s family all live by each other, except her one brother. And I mean like, my parents live on First Ave and Raritan, and then it’s like if you cross the highway my grandmother’s right there, and my grandpa, and then if you keep going down the street, my dad’s mom is over there, so we were all very, very close, my aunts and uncles and all that stuff, so every summer we would go to my grandparents’ house every day; during the school year it was every weekend. So I mean, I kind of just grew up there, and I never was close to my dad’s mom because she had this thing where she only favored my brother. Literally, the rest of her grandchildren– nothing. And still to this day, he’s still the favorite, her family will always just wish him a happy birthday, all this kind of stuff, and it’s like, okay? But it was kind of strange that I moved in with my dad’s mom, but I kind of just needed a place to stay, and she was willing, and it was kind, you know, because she kind of tried filling that void, which kind of did not work, because I told her she can’t make up for lost time by thinking she could replace my other grandmother, so, it’s still been a very, very rocky relationship, but yeah, I grew up with my grandparents and they just are wonderful. I mean, my grandfather’s still alive; he’s 92, served in WWII, all this kind of stuff, but he has dementia and, you know, he doesn’t really know about my transition, and I mean, he knows, because he’ll see pictures of me, he’ll be like, “Oh, who’s that pretty girl?” And my mom will be like, “Well that used to be Kyle and now it’s Naomi,” and he’s like, “Well, she’s pretty,” but he’s not putting that fact that that’s me, and it’s because I’ve never really seen him as me, because I’m not into being harassed or anything like that, because he was really hard on my sister because she was a lesbian. He was like, “You’ll never be a mother.” You know, my sister cut her hair because she’s more butch, and he just thinks like, “Nope, you threw away your life for this girl,” and blah blah, so I’m not ready for that, I’m not ready for that kind of thing for him to say, so, but yeah, I did grow up with my grandparents, and I’ll forever be very thankful for those experiences.

00:50:53

You talked a little bit about going through this election cycle with your dad. Is that something that’s an ongoing conversation between you guys?

Yeah. So just the other day, I mean, my father and I are much stronger because he actually was one of my most supportive people when I came out as trans, which was super weird, because you would think that it was my mother, but it wasn’t– it was my father. And my father’s always been very supportive, like, he’s picked out all my clothes for me, he’s taken me shopping to get everything, like, saying that I’ll look nice in this or whatever, and saying to me the more that I look more feminine, like, he just doesn’t see Kyle anymore. And I think it’s because of the brain injury and he kind of forgot everything else, so it’s like making a new person with him. But with the election, he just took me out to dinner the other day, it was just the two of us, and there were some protestors of Trump, and I was waiting– I was waiting for him to say something that was super rude, and I was just sitting in the car, and he had the windows down, and he was like yelling at these people to go eff themselves, to give him a chance, blah blah blah, and I just kind of like sat down deep in the car because I did not want to be associated with him because of that. And I kind of think that it’s been an ongoing battle because, you know, you see all these different things and he’s saying different things and I’m like, “Did you see what your idol is saying?” He’s like, “Oh, you just have to give him a chance,” and I’m like, “When? When he takes everything from me and then like, I’m, what, in a concentration camp? Yeah, that’s totally gonna work.”

00:52:43

So yeah, that’s the only thing that’s kind of bothering me, is because he’s super supportive of me, but then it’s also that aspect. So I’m like, okay, whatever. And my mother’s just as bad because my mother’s actually a very independent person, like, she doesn’t really fall on one side or the other, but she tends to be more liberal. Well, she registered as a Republican, because that’s what she thought it was, she thought liberals were Republicans, and so she registered as one, and I remember voting in the primary. I went to my district and she went to her district, but she needed me to come with her. So I went with her, you know, whatever, and she was like, yelling in the booth, like, “I think this is wrong. The Republican side is only lighting up for me and I can only vote for them.” And I was like, oh my god. And my mom was really pissed because she got, I guess it was like, a pink notice, and mine was blue, she was like, “Why is yours blue?” And I was like, “Because I registered as a Democrat?” Like I don’t really know [inaudible]. So I was like, “Mom, I can’t believe you registered as a Republican,” she was like, “I thought that those were the liberal people,” and I was like, “No, it’s not.” So she voted for him, and then she was like, “Oh my god, I can’t believe that I voted for him again.” Meaning, in the actual election. And I was like, “Mom, you are the problem.” I said, “White women fucked it up,” and I said, “You are a white woman that fucked it up.” And she was like, “What?” [laughter] And I was like, “Yeah, you did! You did it!” So I have two parents who just, I cannot handle, because of that. And I know that it irks my sister too. My sister’s like, “Do you want our marriage revoked?” and blah, blah, blah. I’m just like, “Well, I’m just trying to keep my benefits,” because I have excellent healthcare because my hormones are $3, my doctors’ visits are $10, my surgery’s covered after two years, so I’m not trying to get rid of that! So exactly [inaudible] just needs to figure out what he’s doing. But yeah, it is kind of tension between my parents and I with just the election.

00:55:03

Many, many families. Many, many families.

Oh yes, yes, indeed.

I was curious– you talked a bit about your time in school and growing up through that time; were there any kind of individuals that stuck out of that time who were particularly supportive?

Yeah! Well, I had a best friend from Long Island that was really cool. I met her at orientation, and I just remember we both complained about the heat, it was walking too much, there were lots of hills, whatever. But we both kind of supported each other all throughout college. We were RAs together, we did a lot of housing things together. She then rushed a sorority, so we kind of got a little bit in a bind, almost, because I wanted to rush a sorority, and I wasn’t allowed to rush a sorority, because I was told, still to this day, if there is a brother fraternity to that sorority, you have to rush that brother fraternity if you wanted that sorority. So for example, I wanted Kappa Delta, I wanted to be in Kappa Delta; their philanthropy is education, and I stood everything for it. And I loved everything about Kappa Delta. They told me that I had to go rush with their brother fraternity, which was like, Pike, and I was like, I’m not rushing them, like I’ll die. They don’t want me! Like, whatever.

00:56:33

So we kind of fell out a little bit, but we stayed in touch, we get lunch every so often, we sat with each other during RA class, you know, whatever. So Sarah was really great; I visited her in Long Island sometimes, like her parents are always great, I saw them at graduation and whatnot, and then I had another friend that I met at orientation as well, and she was from Baltimore, but she was a commuter, and I was the reason she moved on campus because we were hanging out all the time. She kind of just, like, understood everything that I was going through, and I never really had a friend that was like that. Like, I remember our first fight– she drove from her house to Towson to apologize to me, like it was crazy. I had never had a friend so dedicated like that. And we really were doing well until about junior year where we fell apart kind of. You know, I started dating a guy and she was not, and she was kind of over the fact that we were dating and that I would be seeing him or whatever, and he was from Tennessee, but he lived in Baltimore, so he didn’t go home on vacations a lot, you know, for Thanksgiving and stuff like that. So, not even me, my mother invited him to Easter, and so he came up for Easter and she flipped. She was like, “I never was invited to one of your holidays but yet you came to all my holidays,” and I was like, “’Cause your mom invited me.” I was like, “There’s a difference.” I was like, “You never invited me.” And it was like the same kind of thing with me, I was like, “I didn’t invite him, my mother invited him because he had no family, and my mom didn’t want him celebrating alone.”

00:58:20

So that was my last obvious relationship, because I chose my friend over my relationship because I missed my best friend, like I, you know, all that kind of stuff. And we still stay in touch today, but it’s hard because she teaches fifth grade, I teach first grade, we don’t really talk about the same things. The dynamics is, she teaches a lot of African American students, I teach a lot of Asian students, our demographics are once again very, very different, you know– she teaches in Title 1, I don’t teach in Title 1, like, it’s hard, so, I mean we still try talking every here and there kind of thing. And then there was one more person that was really, really great– or actually, two more. One person went to school with me, like I mean, from high school, we went to Towson together. We were really close until like Thanksgiving of freshman year. We decided that my parents were going to bring her home, meaning to Bridgewater, and then from Bridgewater to Towson, her parents were going to bring me there. She like had this thing—I don’t even know what happened—because on our ride home, I was there and one of her friends were there, which I became friends with much later, but my parents brought both of them home; the one girl lived in Jackson and then my mom brought, and my dad brought home my other friend. And it was fine.

00:59:48

Then they did not bring me back, and my parents had to go back to Towson. My parents were pissed because they were like, we planned this out like, you know, we did one way, you do the other way. So we kind of lost touch, and then we saw each other again junior year, talked a little bit, but still not really friends anymore, and that’s really sad, because, like, we went to school forever together, like, since like third grade, actually like first grade. So that was sad. But then this other one was this guy who I loved, like, literally loved; he was this really nice Hispanic man. I just liked his energy and everything like that, and we were really good friends and we hung out all the time; he studied film. But his focus was with LGBT people of color, which I don’t know what his preference is or anything like that, but we were friends forever, and then I graduated college and we said that we would keep in touch and we sucked at it, and then just yesterday he called me and we talked for like, an hour, and it was just really nice to catch up, but he was very supportive with everything that I did. He was just very quiet and nice and, you know, everything that I talked about it was great. And he called me yesterday to talk about my transition because he ultimately is now working for social justice and he wants to write about, you know, different stories that have impacted him. And so he wanted to know about my story, because of, you know, I’ve been friends with him for a while, and I had a love interest for him, you know, and whether he feels the same or anything like that, we’ve always just really liked each other. But he was really supportive throughout college and he was a really good friend, but yeah, he called me yesterday and it was really nice to hear from him, and I’m glad I helped him with whatever he wants to do, so hopefully he’ll come up in the near future, because we just said that we would always meet, and he lives by D.C. and I was like, I really don’t want to drive down to Baltimore to meet halfway, so I said I’ll pay one way, he pays the other way, and he could just come up here, because he could just stay at my place or whatever and we could just talk, you know, about whatever he wants to talk about with his desire for writing those stories about LGBT people, specifically of color, but you know, he says he doesn’t know many trans people of color, so you know, he wants to get the whole aspect, so that was nice.

1:02:38

You mentioned that fortunately with your job you have access to good healthcare, and I was just curious, has getting access to the kinds of healthcare that you need been a positive experience?

Yes. I was nervous at first because I was like, I didn’t want them to question why I was getting estrogen, or why I was getting spironolactone.

Who, the–

The insurance, you know, the health benefits, because I didn’t want them to be like, “Well, why are we supplying this kind of stuff?” But I haven’t bought anything; I changed my insurance, so clearly, you know, I changed my name– you know, that kind of thing, so it’s been really, really nice, and I’m very thankful for having access to healthcare, because there are many trans people who don’t have that access and resort to different activities for their way of life to get access to that healthcare. And I look every day that I get my medicines filled, like, estrogen is not cheap. It’s two hundred-something dollars; spiro is the same kind of thing, because it's a testosterone blocker. The only one that’s pretty cheap is finasteride, and that’s to regrow my hair, so not everybody needs that, you know. And the other one’s Lexapro because of, I’ve just had a lot go on in my life and that’s another thing– something that’s psychiatric, bad anxiety, and people don’t have access to that as well, so I am very thankful and very fortunate and I do recognize my privilege with having access to healthcare, and I do understand that in all aspects I might be underprivileged, but with healthcare I am privileged, and I am very thankful for that.

01:04:33

And you feel like even the healthcare professionals that you’ve encountered have all been supportive, or–

Yeah, um, well, when I came out as trans to my primary care doctor, he told me that he couldn’t be my doctor anymore, so.

Really?

Yes, that he was not comfortable and that no one else in his practice would be comfortable, which was really sad, because he was really nice and I really liked him.

Why do you think that was a problem?

I have no idea. So I kind of was like, I didn’t really let it bother me, but he did keep his word and he found me Dr. Hansch at Robert Wood Johnson Somerset, and she’s been wonderful. She’s been very helpful, and she’s dealt with a lot of things. The nurses are really great; they know me now and it’s always just “Naomi,” “Naomi,” “Naomi.” Well, one time someone did not call me Naomi, kept calling me Kyle, and I wouldn’t answer because I didn’t know they were talking to me, because I have not answered to that in a very long time. So I was just minding my business, filling out the paperwork, and the lady at the desk was like, “You mean ‘Naomi,’” and she’s like, “No, I mean ‘Kyle.’” And she was like, “No, you mean ‘Naomi,’ she’s not going to come.” And I was really bothered by that woman, and I told my doctor, and she was like, “Oh I will have a conversation with her.”

01:05:52

Because, I went to this healthcare retreat in June at Robert Wood Johnson, and they said that they trained over 2,000 people to be very gender-inclusive and things like that, and I’m like, well did this lady miss it, or what? Because it was out in the waiting room where other people are, and you’re already drawing attention to it. Because what I was running into was, they usually deal with trans patients on Mondays or Thursdays, and so those were the days that I usually went. But usually at night, so it’s usually at seven or eight at night when trans patients are being helped. And I would always go at, like, five, because it was right after work. So people are right out of work, you know, I’m running into all these people, and you’re here shouting a name that’s not my name, and it was just– it was very, very stressful. And I mean, Dr. Hansch did feel really, really bad, and when I had my blood clot in early September of this year, she was on vacation, and I went to the emergency room, and at first they were really bad, like the people that you check in with, she was like, “Yeah, but I have to give you this bracelet that says ‘Kyle,’” and I was like, “I don’t want it, because I will not be addressed like that if I’m going in there,” because I know I’m going to have to take my clothes off, because I needed an ultrasound and make sure there’s no more blood clots, you know, whatever. And she was like, fighting with me, and I’m like, “But my insurance says ‘Naomi,’ therefore it needs to be changed as ‘Naomi.’ You need to honor–,” whatever. The lady finally got it, and I went in the back, and they were like, “Well you need to see an ER doctor,” and I was like, “That’s fine, but I also want to see someone from the Proud Center because I need someone who specializes with trans patients.”

01:07:45

I met this physician’s assistant, he was some guy, he was very nice, very professional, knew what that the situation was, you know, he had to be with me, but then they never sent someone from the Proud Center, and I was really bothered, but at least this guy was very nice. But I could get someone who wasn’t as nice, or didn’t call me the right names or anything like that, but he was very polite, the nurses were great. The one that had to do my ultrasound needed to get over on this side of my leg, but had to tuck underneath the genitalia and stuff, and I was like, “I don’t have my lady parts yet,” and she’s like, “It’s really – it’s okay.” But it’s like, just disclosing that and she being like, “It’s fine, we don’t have to worry about it. You’re still a woman in the chart, it doesn’t matter,” so that was really nice too, because I was like, here I am, sitting vulnerable, you know. My dad went out into the room because he knew I was going to be undressing, so it was just nice that someone else was like, this is not a big deal, I’m literally just taking ultrasound pictures, it’s not a big thing. So, it was nice. I have run into some good ones, but there have been some bad apples, but that's anywhere.

01:09:07

Thanks for sharing that. You talked about it a little bit, but I was just curious, maybe you wanted to– if there was anything else you wanted to say about what your teaching means to you.

Sure. I like being a teacher, and I feel like teaching means to me because I can impact students to be a better person, rather than a better student. And I’ve always said this too, at back-to-school night, everything, they can be the best students ever, literally, but if they’re a shitty person, that’s for the rest of their life. I was like, but if they can encounter me and understand that I’m different, then I’ve done my job by teaching them how to be a great person by understanding those who are different from them. So yes, I look like a woman to them, but maybe later on, when they’re in third, fourth, or fifth grade, and they start thinking about those things, maybe they’ll look back and be like, “Was Miss Barry really a woman?”

01:10:14

You know, or things like that, and having students come to question those things were beneficial to me because I could teach them how to be a better person or a better human, and even with last year when I would have to transfer, I was like, what is so bad about me staying? Those students who were older– because my building now is only K to 2– my building before was K to 5. So I was like, what’s so bad about fifth graders asking? There could be a trans student who could come to me for resources or help with telling their parents or things like that. I could’ve helped in so many different ways, but you denied that access for those students. And so now I’m still holding out my mission where I’m going to teach students to be better people. I did it last year; I’m going to do it again. Where it’s just where I am myself and along the way, let’s say they come back years later, that could be a conversation that we have, you know, things like that. But yeah, my teaching is very, very important to me and that’s why people are like, “Oh, I want my kids to be the best on this test,” and I’m like, “I really don’t. I want them to say kind words to each other, and that’s it. I don’t care about anything else, and I really don’t. I spend a lot of time like – this is the first year, like last year I spent a lot of time on rules and procedures and stuff; this year it was like two days on rules and procedures, and I got right into content and teaching character pillars along with the content, because I’m like, “Listen, I don’t care how much you know about multiplication at your age. I care whether you can be a fair person, whether you can be considered a great citizen.” You know, and so, I don't know, I kind of feel like my philosophy on teaching and life is just to strive to be a better person always, no matter what age you are, but it’s important to start at the young ages of 6 and stuff, because their minds are so malleable. That’s how I feel.

01:12:27

Great. Is there anything else that you want to touch on?

I don’t think so.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think what I might do is stop the recorder now.

Okay.

01:12:44

[End of Recording One]

[Beginning of Recording Two]

00:00:00

Great, so, how did you get involved with TrueSelves, or how did you find the group, and maybe what’s it meant, if its meant anything?

[laughter] So with TrueSelves, I was introduced to it back in January when I met for the first time with Dr. Hansch, she was just like, “This is just a support group that one of my other patients–” because one of, you know, Nicole’s a patient of Dr. Hansch, so I was like, oh okay, she’s like, “You know, this is a really great group, it’s in Highland Park,” which is close to where I work, so I’m like okay that’s fine, whatever. But I was very skeptical because I was like, I don’t really know how I feel about going into this, you know, I don’t know who’s going to be there, you know, anything like that. So I put it off a lot, and then when everything happened with school in March, I kind of was really struggling, and so I made it over to TrueSelves, and they have been very, very welcoming, Kim and Nicki have been great, and kind of helping me through everything. I mean, Rhonda and James, they helped me change my name, so going there, I’ve gotten so many resources on how to be myself authentically, and it’s been really, really great.

00:01:23

And I kind of, I really don’t miss that many meetings; I missed one because I was on vacation. Otherwise, I’m usually there very religiously because, not that I feel like I have to be there, I like to be there. I think it’s important to update other people with how I’m doing but also hearing how they’re doing. And if someone’s not doing so well, how can we help them do even better? So I really enjoy that, and TrueSelves to me has been very lovely. They’ve kind of empowered me in a way. I feel like I’m a different kind of person than I am at the beginning of my transition. I feel that they have given me so much insight that I took it to heart and I really went with it. I feel like many people, they’re like, “Okay, I hear you, and I listen,” and they do their own thing, but I really am very receptive to other people and even with like– it’s hard to say, but I’m just very receptive to other people and what their energy is and what they’re telling me.

00:02:37

And I go with it, and I take whatever that they’re saying to heart. So I think with TrueSelves it’s really taught me that, and I feel like I’m doing much better in my life because of TrueSelves. I feel like it’s been so valuable that I don’t want to miss a meeting. I look forward to it because I have to talk with them about something that’s bothering me, or, you know, I mean they were very helpful when I was transitioning schools. It’s been really great. They have been super great. Yeah, they’ve been great.

That’s all I have. Those are all my questions I think.

Okay!

00:03:25

[End of Recording Two]