Hector Torres
Hector Torres has had several recurring health issues. He talks about his experiences with the healthcare system as a person with no health insurance and how he is treated differently than he was when he did have health insurance.
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More [3]: Munira Z. Gunja and Sara R. Collins, “Who Are the Remaining Uninsured, and Why Do They Lack Coverage?,” Commonwealth Fund, August 28, 2019.
Learn More [2]: “COBRA - The Continuation of Health Benefits” (New Jersey Division of Pensions and Benefits, April 2022).
Learn More [3]: “National Survey of Households Affected by Cancer” (Kaiser Family Foundation, Harvard School of Public Health, November 2006).
Learn More: Julia Foutz et al., “The Uninsured: A Primer” (Kaiser Family Foundation, December 2017).
Learn More [2]: Jennifer Tolbert and Kendal Orgera, “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” Kaiser Family Foundation (blog), November 6, 2020.
Learn More [3]: Jared Ortaliza et al., “How Does Cost Affect Access to Care?,” Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker (blog), January 14, 2022.
Learn More [2]: Jennifer Tolbert and Kendal Orgera, “Key Facts about the Uninsured Population,” Kaiser Family Foundation (blog), November 6, 2020.
Learn More: “An Employee’s Guide to Health Benefits under COBRA” (United States Department of Labor, September 2016).
Learn More [3]: “COBRA - The Continuation of Health Benefits” (New Jersey Division of Pensions and Benefits, April 2022).
Learn More: Dennis Thompson, “‘Medical Gaslighting’: Are You a Victim?,” Medical Xpress, July 15, 2022.
Learn More [3]: Vernita Perkins and Leonard Jason, “Long COVID and Gaslighting,” Psychology Today, April 11, 2022.
Learn More [2]: Caroline Pearson, “Surveys of Trust in the U.S. Health Care System” (ABIM Foundation, NORC, May 21, 2021).
Learn More [3]: Valerie Gilchrist et al., “Physician Activities During Time Out of the Examination Room” (Annals of Family Medicine, November 2005).
Learn More [2]: Megan Ladd and Vikas Gupta, “Cobra Laws And EMTALA,” in StatPearls (Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing, 2022).
Learn More [3]: Tony Abraham, “Patient Dumping a Symptom of Health System Woes,” Healthcare Dive, February 5, 2018.
Learn More [3]: “Get Covered NJ: Updates,” Official Site of the State of New Jersey, accessed November 14, 202.
Learn More: “K & L Out-of-Pocket Limits Announcements,” cms.gov, September 30, 2022.
Learn More [2]: “Costs,” Medicare.gov, accessed November 14, 2022.
Learn More [3]: “Out-of-Pocket Maximum/Limit - Glossary,” HealthCare.gov, accessed November 14, 2022.
Learn More [4]: “NJ State Health Benefits Program (SHBP): 2022 Overview” (Horizon Blue, 2022).
Learn More [5]: “How Part D Works with Other Insurance,” Medicare.gov, accessed November 14, 2022.
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Jody Wood
New Brunswick, New Jersey
July 16, 2021
Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn
Annotations by Yingtong Li
[RECORDING ONE]
[00:00:00]
To you, basically. Um, okay. So, [static] first, just kind of introduce yourself.
Yes.
And tell me your name. And just–
Oh.
Look right at the camera for now.
Er, uh, my name is Hector Torres. And [shuffling] I live in New Brunswick. And– [shuffling]
Okay. I’m stopping for a minute, and then I’ll restart it. Okay, and, action! I’m just doing this with my hand to do “action.” Okay. Okay.
Again, my name is Hector Torres. And I’m here to say about, uh, doctors and emergencies? That, uh, if, uh, you don’t have no insurance. [coughs] Excuse me. They’ll turn you away and if you go to emergencies, how many times I’ve been there, because my health is just a– I had surgery for colon cancer, I had knee surgery. You know, I had, uh, I had trouble with my blood and I have asthma. And, you know, I have no insurance and when you go to the ER they’ll tell you, “Oh, how many– I’ll let you know. Oh, you’ve been here so many times.” And, you know, and then they have you waiting when they wanna treat you. And it’s like, I tell them is– I tell them that, [tsk], “This is a hospital. This is an emergency. It’s not caring how many times you been there or– or what is– what is your thing is they’re supposed to take care of you whether you have insurance or not, or have you waiting in the hallway until they decide they want to take care of you.” And–
Okay, great. Can you, so, can you look right at me when you’re talking?
Oh, okay.
That’s perfect, that’s perfect. And then you can just start off, I think that’s a really good summary of what you’re going to talk about. And then– I’m just gonna walk it back to, if we could talk more about what you were first saying, that you used to have two jobs and then, um, how your situation kind of changed when you got sick.
Yeah. Okay, yeah, so. Well, I had two jobs. I was workin’ at a BP Gas Station and at night I was working at a UPS. You know, I had insurance. And everything was so fine until I got sick and I had my surgery for colon cancer. Then, now, it’s like I’m havin’ trouble with my insurance. You know, and I have to go to the, uh, emergency when I, you know, have asthma, because I have severe asthma. You know. And I go to the emergency, you know. And they take your time when you don’t have no insurance, to take care of you, and stuff, and– That’s not right because, you know, a doctor, I mean a doctor, it’s a doctor! They’re supposed to take care of you, regardless, no matter what! And–
Did you lose your job when you got diagnosed with–
[00:02:56]
Yes, I lost both of my jobs when I got diagnosed with colon cancer, and I lost, actually, I lost both of my insurance from the job, that I couldn’t. And they got me on disability. [clears throat] And the doctor said that I can’t work anymore because of my condition of asthma, my cancer, and everything. And now I’m havin’ trouble with the insurance, uh, from the government that, uh, it’s– [inaudible] I was supposed to have got this a long time ago to go to the emergency. And they keep sending me 300 dollars, 400 dollars, 5000 dollars, almost, you know, a lot of bills! And that, I can’t– I can’t afford that, you know. And they– they call and they say “Oh,” you know, “the doctor had told me,” when– When I got– when I got a call from the hospital, I answer it, and it’s all, “How you feelin’ Mr. Torres?” And I said, “I’m fine.” And they said that, “The doctor that you seen the other day in the hospital, they said that to ask me to call.” They– they asked them to call me, because I keep goin’ into the hospital because of, I don’t have insurance and what. And I cannot, and I told her, when she called, I said, “I’m gonna say it again. It’s a hospital. You cannot turn anybody down, regardless if you don’t have no insurance, you have, waiting. Because all they care about is the money. You know? The money and insurance. If you don’t have either, they want to kill you. They leave you in the hallway and everything. And that– that’s ridiculous. And something gotta be done about this. You know, because a lot of people get sick. That’s how come they call it “emergency hospital”. And that’s– that’s– that’s ridiculous. And it get to me because it happen to me not once but so many times. That they refuse a couple’a times they refuse to take care of me because I don’t have no insurance and stuff. You know, and basically I just don’t know what to do! [coughs] And– and it really hurts me because, I mean, I’m not feeling– it’s not just me, it’s just everybody else that have no insurance or what and they keep getting turned away. Just the other day I was in the hospital and they had me sittin’ there for hours and hours until they decide they wanna come take care of me. And then this lady was there. And she, I heard the conversation, “Oh, well,” you know, “since you don’t have insurance, you know, we can’t do any much for you.” And I was just like, “You kiddin’ me!” I– and I see the doctor. And I said, “You coulda done somethin’ for her, or something, or give her some medication to take home! Just because she don’t have insurance doesn’t mean, you know, the hospital’s to help people. Not turn any– anybody away.” You know? Regardless if you don’t have no insurance or anything. But they send you a bill and last time I got a bill, it was about almost 10,000 dollar bill!
[00:06:12]
And I was like– and they actually called me in– in about that. “When you gonna get your insurance?” I said, “When I get my insurance, I will let you know. Can you please stop calling me!” You know, I– I just don’t know what to do! I mean, I– I wasn’t sayin’ it to be a smart, a smart guy or anything. I just said it because that’s all they care is insurance, insurance! Because what it is is the doctors, they wanna charge more to the insurance, what they are really supposed to charge, what, you know, for the medical thing. And insurance that I got now from the state, they refusin’ to give me my insurance because I owe them almost about 500 dollars, and when I used to get my medication, I used to get my medication for free and stuff. And now I can’t get my medication unless when I go and get my medication. And if I don’t have insurance, I gotta pay either four to 300 dollars just for two medications. And I can’t afford that! And there’s a lot of people that goin’ through that. Not just me. So, you know.
So when you first lost both of your jobs and you applied to your insurance, what kind of insurance were you applying to?
I had the state. I had the Horizon, New Jersey Horizon from the state, and I had the Humana from the mass. And they’re both refusing until they decide they wanna give me the insurance. They’re gonna give it to me. But I keep callin’ them and they say, “Oh, you have to wait,” and this and that. So.
And did they tell you that they were missing any paper– or, like, what exactly– when you filed for the insurance and then, basically, can you walk me through exactly what happened? Like, were you filing on the computer and then what notices they sent?
[overlapping] No, actually, I went to our local insurance on Howe Lane. I went and got the paper. And I said– when I went there I said– you couldn’t go in because, you know, I had to wait outside for the paperwork because, you know, with the COVID-19, uh, I can’t, nobody can’t go in there. So they give me the paper. I filled it out correctly. I looked it over. And then all of a sudden I got in the mail said, oh, I was denied. So, I went back and I said, “Look. You give me the wrong paper. I need the paperwork for myself.” [cough] Excuse me. “I need the paper for myself, insurance that I need.” Okay, I got that. That, filled it out, oh, okay. You know, I looked it over before I send it out. Okay. Everything is okay. And then a couple of weeks later, I got, uh, another letter saying I was denied. And then, uh, I said, “Okay.” I went again for a third time! [chuckles] And then, um, then I said, “Look, you keep giving me the wrong paper.” Okay, so he gave it to me, I filled it out.
[00:09:13]
And then when I noticed it was the same three, or the two I had filled out! I said, “Okay, this could be the right one.” So I filled it out, and then they call me and said, “No, this is the wrong paperwork.” I said, “Well. I told them it’s for me.” And then– so when they called me they send me the correct paper. Okay. So I filled it out. And then, uh. “Okay, everything is okay.” So I filled, I sent it out. And I still have– I got no response just yet, so. We’ll see what happens, maybe it’ll be the right one.
And how long ago did you first start to fill paperwork out? How long has this been?
It’s been like– like a month right now. Like a month right now, so.
So you’ve been [overlapping, inaudible]
[overlapping] Hopefully I didn’t get no calls or no letters or I guess finally it could be the right one, so. See what happens.
Let’s hope.
Yeah.
So in this month that you’ve been waiting for insurance, that you haven’t had insurance, how many times have you had to go into the hospital?
Phew! For my asthma? I had to– I had to go in, like, about five, like, five or six. I went into the– wait, wait. My bad. I went in there about ten or eight, ten times I went in there for my asthma. And then they said that, “Oh,” you know, “you don’t have asthma.” I said, “You cannot tell me I have asthma, because I do have asthma.” “Oh, I don’t hear no wheezing,” I said, “I, well, it’s my body. I hear the wheezing when my lungs are closing.” And then they gave me one of those things that you blow on and they said, “Oh!” Then the doctor came, “Yes, Mr. Torres, you have asthma.” I said, “I know that!” You know, “That’s what I’ve been tellin’ your assistant!” And stuff. You know, and– and a hospital is a joke. A hospital is a joke. You know. And, I just don’t know what to do, you know? I’m gonna–
[overlapping] Can you– can you take me through one of– one of these experiences from start to finish? Like, um, so you’ve been in about ten or eleven times for asthma and then you’re probably also in for colon cancer, right?
Yeah, I went in for colon cancer once.
Can you tell me about– about that whole experience of first having symptoms and then going in the hospital [overlapping, inaudible]?
Well, to be honest? I went in– okay, excuse me. I went into the hospital because I had asthma. But I didn’t feel no symptoms of me having colon cancer. So when I went in, they said, “Oh, you look pale.” And, “What is wrong with you?” I said, “You tell me, ‘cause you’re the one that noticed that I have– I was pale.” So the, um, they did the blood work and everything.
[00:12:00]
And they did a– a CAT scan, and they said, “Oh,” and I was bleeding through my colon and you know, and stuff. And they said that– asked me a lot of questions like, to be honest, I don’t even know the history of my family, you know. All I know is history of myself, you know? “Do you, any of your family smoke? Do this?” And I said, “Not that I know of.” You know, and they left me in the hospital. And then, like, in the next day, they did the surgery for colon cancer and stuff.
Was it pretty, uh, what stage was it in? How–
They didn’t actually tell me, ‘cause that, to me, it probably wasn’t really that bad, but– The doctors told me that I couldn’t work anymore because of that cancer, and surgeries, and my history, so. They put me on, uh, social security disability. Yeah.
And so when you got the surgery, did you have insurance through your jobs and that?
When I– when I had the insurance– but since I wasn’t no longer with the companies anymore? They had to, [cough] they had to remove it because I wasn’t with the company anymore. And so, I filed a couple a years ago. I filed, everything was fine. I had my insurance. But then after, now with this, uh, coronavirus thing now, it’s like, uh. It’s really hard now, you know? Just don’t know what to do anymore. But if you get sick you have to go to the emergency room.
So then, can you tell me about a time that you went into the hospital when you didn’t have any insurance and how you felt treated? And if you felt treated any differently when you didn’t have insurance versus when you at least had insurance?
When I had insurance, I was, I was like, uh. When I had insurance, I was like the president of the United States! You know? They treated me very well. But when, uh, I didn’t have no insurance anymore, they treated me like, oh, you know. Like I was, you know, nothing. And I don’t have the insurance, so they’re gonna just have me wait now. And stuff, so.
So then, tell me about a time that you went into the hospital without insurance and from start to finish, like, walking up to the receptionist, that– how that conversation went–
Yeah.
How long you waited.
Yeah. I walked up to the– to the lady. She did all my paperwork. She said, “Can you hand me your ID and your insurance?” I said, “Well, I’ll give my ID but I don’t have no insurance.” And she looked at me like, “Oh. Okay.” And so, then I came, “Mr. Torres, just sit down and they’re gonna call you.”
[00:14:59]
And it been– sometimes they have you sittin’ out there with no insurance for like an hour, two hours, just waiting. Even if there wasn’t nobody there, they still have you waiting outside. And I told’m, uh, “I’m here to see a doctor.” “Oh, they’re gonna call you!” I said, “Okay.” And I sit there and I sit there. And then finally after or an hour or two, “Oh,” then they call me. “What are you here for?” And I said, “I just told her that I’m here because I have eczema and my asthma is acting up.” You know? So okay, then after they– they did what they did, or. You know, they ask you so many questions, like, “Oh,” you know. I tell’m I have diabetes. Um, I had surgery for colon cancer. I have asthma. And then they add, come on with these questions. “Are you gonna hurt yourself? Are you gonna hurt anybody?” Man. I– I, yes! When you go there, yep, that’s what they’re gonna ask. And I said, you really, and I look at them, like, “Are you really kidding me?” You know. “Oh, no, we supposed to ask you these questions.” I said, “No,” you know. And stuff. But that’s what they say, “Are you harmful to anybody, are you gonna hurt anybody, to you or yourself?” I said, “No, I’m not!” I said, you know, I said, “Can I go see a doctor now?” “We’re supposed to ask you these questions,” but. You know. I said, “Alright. That’s the policy, but I wouldn’t think it’s right for you to be asking those questions to me or anybody. Or anybody that’s here to see the doctor.”
Yeah! Did they ask you those questions before when you had insurance?
Yeah, they always ask those questions.
Yeah! Okay, so tell me– tell me what really rubs you the wrong way about being asked that. Like, what–
It makes me feel like– like down, like, why? And he keeps asking me, like, why they asking me these questions? Not to me or anybody? Or anybody else? They ask those questions. You know, it makes me feel like, wow, you know? Am I a killer, or? Or something! [laughs] That’s what, when they ask for those questions, that’s what pops into my head. “Oh man, they think I’m gonna kill somebody just because, ah, they’re gonna, uh, uh, see me, or whatever?” [laughs] It’s crazy!
Yeah! Does it make you almost feel, like, accused?
Yeah, it makes me feel accused, it makes me feel uncomfortable when they ask me those questions! I mean, I don’t mind ask– if they ask me about my health condition, but “Are you– are you feeling safe at home? Are you in danger? To harm anybody else?” I always say, “No, I’m safe at home, I’m by myself,” and stuff.
Yeah. So, for you, it feels like, irrelevant to your care [inaudible, overlapping]
[00:18:00]
Yeah! Yeah. ‘Cause I– I asked them, “What they got to do with me,” you know, “seeing a doctor?” And, um, “getting treating?” And they said, “Oh, no, it’s the policy.” I said, “Well, that policy gotta change, because for me it– it makes me feel uncomfortable, and then you asking them to anybody else would make them feel,” you know. ‘Cause, you know, I bet they go home and be like, “Why– why did they ask me those questions like that?” You know? “I was just there to see a doctor!”
Right. And so when you complain, you say, “Okay, I think that policy can change,” how do they respond?
They respond– well, really to be honest, they didn’t responded. They said, “Just policy that you gotta go through.” I said, “Well,” you know. Unfortunately, they have to do is change that. Because it makes me feel uncomfortable, makes other people uncomfortable, too, askin’ those questions. You know.
And then, what else happened? So then you have– you fill out the questions, go through that, then what happened next?
Then after that, then they took me to the back. And then they put me on a bed and said, “Okay, well somebody gonna come see you.” I said, “Okay, I’ll be here about an hour or two, waiting.” And then he started to laugh, the guy, you know. [laughs] But it’s true! You know? So then, after an hour or two, then they come, it’s like, “Oh, whatchu here for?” And I said, “You know what I’m here for!” Because, you know, they write it down and then you can see it on the computer, because, you know, you don’t wanna see it on the computer! “Oh, you here for your asthma and for your eczema and thing.” I said, “Yeah!” And you know, they give me medication and then, “Okay, you can go!” Sign the paper and leave and then that’s it!
So how did they treat your asthma?
They treat it pretty good. Not as much as they’re supposed to without me havin’ insurance, but if I had the insurance, I would have got treated more well and more better medication that they had.
Okay, so, because you have had experience going in for asthma when you had insurance versus going in without insurance, that’s how you know the treatment is different?
Yeah.
When you have insurance?
Very different. When you have insurance, you feel better because they’ll give you the right medication and stuff like that. And you be feelin’ good, but, when you don’t have the insurance, you get treated really bad, like, you know, you’re a nobody and stuff, you know? And I always say, it doesn’t matter the color of your skin or anything. When we all get cut, we bleed red, and that links everybody, bleeds red, you know, and stuff. Doesn’t make no difference or what. That’s why I said, the doctors make no difference in treating with or without insurance!
[00:21:06]
Do you feel like you’re treated differently because of the color of your skin in a hospital or do you feel like you’re treated differently because of your insurance qualifications? Like, how do you feel judged in that?
Not because of the color of my skin or anybody else. It’s just the insurance, that’s what it is, the insurance. The insurance.
Okay. So could you say that as a complete sentence so I can use it as a soundbite or something, like. Say that, “I don’t feel that,” like, in your own words, like, that you don’t feel treated differently because of the color of your skin.
Mhm.
Um. Or your gender, but it’s because of your economic status?
Yeah, like I said, I don’t feel it’s– it’s not because of the color of my skin. It’s the insurance that makes me feel really bad because, you know, you’ve got insurance, and if you don’t have insurance, you get treated really bad and you get no, uh, treatment unless you have good insurance.
Yeah. And, do you– I’m not sure if you’re gonna remember, but do you remember, like, the treatment the, um, the type of medicine you got when you had insurance versus the type of medicine and the treatment you get without insurance for asthma? Do you remember the technical?
Yeah, because the– they used to give me, uh, better m’cation, like, it comes in a little tube that you put into a breathing treatment. But now, you know, you get that bad medication where it really don’t help you that much and stuff, you know, with my condition for asthma.
What is the medicine you get now?
They give me– they usually– when I go in, they give me a little pill, sayin’, oh! Prednisone, that’s what it is. Prednisone, and that’s, they said, “Oh, that’s for asthma.” But then they, [tsk] I don’t think it’s for asthma. I think it’s for something else. I have to look it up. But Prednisone, yeah, I think it’s like. They tell me, w– when I had– I got ec– eczema. And that’s what they givin’ me. They said, “Oh, that’s for the itch.” I said, “No, ecz–” Um. “The Prednisone’s for asthma.” And they tell me, “No, it’s for a lot of things!” “Do you– really?” I said, “Well, not that I know. All I know is just for asthma.”
So they’re giving you Prednisone for eczema?
Yeah, for like, the itching and the stuff and I was like “No, it’s, it’s–”
Did they give you a topical cream? For eczema?
Yeah they– they give me a– a cream that really not good. That when I go to the, uh, pharmacy I see the one that I want, because– but I can’t afford to buy because they’re like ten dollars, twenty dollars. Sixteen dollars. Which I can’t afford anymore. You know, where, you know, I tell the doctor, um, you know, it’s this cream that, you know, that you get. But I can’t afford it at the– at the– in the pharmacy because it’s very expensive. So, that’s–
[00:24:20]
How does the doctor respond when you say that?
They really don’t say much. They say, “Oh, well, if you had insurance, it would have been much different.” You know, and that’s really like, oh boy, you know?
How did that make you feel, when the doctor told you that?
It made me feel bad! You know, I’m not getting the better treatment like I was before, so I just don’t know what to do, you know?
And so they were giving you Prednisone for X amount that they said.
Yeah.
And then, what did they tell you they were giving you for the asthma then? Or did they just–
Really–
Not give you nothing?
[overlapping] They was– they was giving me, uh, the same thing for asthma, the Prednisone for asthma. And they gave me like, these little, uh, little tube thing that you put in with, like, a machine that helps your asthma. But now I don’t get those anymore because, like I said, and again, I don’t have insurance.
Okay. So your medicine has totally since–
[overlapping] Yes.
You don’t have insurance.
Yes. Totally changed and really different. You know, they’re not giving me the right treatment. And then, I just. I give up! You know? This government and doctors? I just don’t know what to do.
Um, can you tell me a little bit more about how, um, the questions you would get? Or, walk me through a specific scenario where you were being asked why you keep coming here so much and how that conversation went.
Well, the reason is, why am I going into the hospital so much, because of my health conditions. And seeing the doctors. And, [tsk] you know, like I said, it’s just. It’s a hospital. It’s an emergency that, you know, you gotta get treatment because you can’t be sittin’ at home suffering because they don’t wanna treat you, and you feel like you don’t wanna go into the hospital because no insurance! And they can– and that’s, you know. It’s really hard.
And so, can you walk me through, like, a specific conversation that you had with somebody and kind of go through the whole scenario, where–
It’s like– yeah. Like a month ago, I went into St. Peter’s Hospital. I went in for my eczema. And the lady said– the– the doctor came in. It was a lady. She came and she said, oh, the same thing that Robert Wood was saying. “Oh, you come here so many times.” She did this, and then she, you know, she did this on a wall and I was like, “Excuse me, why are you just doin’ that?” You know, I say, “I’m in for the itch and I’m tryin’ to tell you.” And she was like, “You’ve been here many times.” And I said, “Well, if you’re not gonna treat me, can you just release me and help me sign the paper to go home?”
[00:27:12]
“Oh, no, let me get you something,” they said. I said, “Okay, well, uncross your arms and don’t lay like that! Because, you know, it’s your job to help me!” And she was, like, “Oh, you know you don’t have insurance.” I said, “Okay, well?” “And you been here many times,” she said. So what? You know, and I’m gonna say like I said to Robert Wood. “I been here many times,” you know, “and it doesn’t matter how many times you come here at all.” This is ridiculous.
Yeah, so how did that make you feel when the doctor is saying you come here a lot? Like, how are you interpreting that? Like, what do you think she’s really implying by saying that?
She’s implying is, like, “Okay, you– you don’t have insurance, stay home!” That’s what they– that’s what they implying to me. Or anybody. You know? You don’t have insurance, the doctors, when they do that, “Just stay home and don’t come here!” ‘Cause, you know, if they’re gonna treat you, you know, they wanna get paid! It’s all about the money and insurance! And if you don’t have either, they won’t take care of you!
Right! So then, how do you feel, like?
[coughs]
How do you feel like you wish that hospitals functioned?
They should, [cough] excuse me.
Wait, hang on for a minute, let me just restart this again. Um, and action!
Well, they should, uh. The doctors should go back to school! And, uh, realize that there’s a lot of sick people that really need help with or without the insurance. And that should change! You know? They should at least help people that don’t have insurance for– for the good of God, they should help them! Just, you know, and don’t think about the money or the insurance, you know. The person needs help! You know, and stuff like that, and when a person needs help you gotta help’m, regardless! You know, insurance or no insurance, no money, no money! You know? That’s what it is to the doctors.
And so, where do you think that if– if you’re not able to pay for it, you don’t have insurance, uh. So do you feel like doctors should give some of their skills, um, as volunteers, or?
Yeah, the– the doctors should use some skills and at least help patients! Because right now, we’re going through this CO– COVID-19, you know. People are– are suffering with no insurance. They’re going to the hospital. This– they should at least do a good deed and help people! Not worrying about money or whatever!
Yeah!
Or insurance!
Did you know that a lot of hospital CEOs make three million or more a year? Did you know about that?
[00:30:00]
They make more than that!
Yeah.
With the insurance, and the– the insurance.
So do you feel like maybe some of the CEO’s salaries should go toward people who are uninsured?
I think that salaries from the CEOs should go to help the people without insurance and that really need help! Yes!
That would make a difference, yeah. I’m sure they could cover a lot of medical bills with that. [laughs]
They could cover a lot! Yeah!
Um. And then, can you tell me a little bit more– I’m curious what you’re saying about, um, that doctors should go back to school to learn that peop– some people need help without insurance. ‘Cause that’s interesting. I feel like you’re kind of saying maybe an intervention should be part of medical school that makes you learn more compassion?
That’s what I’m, that is, that’s it!
Could you talk about what you wished that they would learn in school, or like, or, um, at what level in school they should learn about that?
Yeah they– they should learn that, you know, they should teach of what people that are goin’ in to be nurses or doctors that, you know, they should help the patients and not ask so many questions, you know. And help’m, and– and give’m a good deed and– and not turn anybody away, not have nobody sitting in an office for like an hour or two, you know? And that’s what they should go back to school or they should learn something else in helping people. That’s what they should do.
Right. So maybe even, like, compassion. Huh. Compassion or like, um, sorry, I’ve gotta change this battery and I’m gonna cut–
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[RECORDING TWO]
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It’s the– it– the doctor think it’s our fault that we don’t have insurance, but it’s not our fault. It’s the people that issue it. The paperwork and– and their fault for not giving us the insurance that we need to get the proper care that we need. You know? And they should realize that instead of the doctor that’s [inaudible], you know, it’s– You know. It’s ridiculous, because I really don’t have many words to say, you know. They should, you see, if we get the proper care and the proper insurance, they should, you know, at least, okay, then they should help us, you know? With– with– to get the proper care. You know? That’s what we need, you know? It’s not, for them, they think it’s a joke that we don’t have insurance, but it’s not our fault, it’s the people that’s issuing the insurance and doing the paperwork. That’s what it is.
Yeah. Could you tell me your opinions about the insurance industry? Do you– some people would say their insurance shouldn’t even exist. That basically, everyone should have [beep] Medicare. Everyone in the US should have free Medicare from the government.
Yeah. We should all get free Medicare and free insurance! ‘Cause sometime it’s like, when the doctors prescribe a medication, we still have to pay! You know? Even though the insurance is chargin’ and not paying much, it’s comin’ out of peoples’ pockets that do have insurance, that, that don’t have insurance. It’s costing them a lot.
Yeah. Do you feel like there’s any way to improve the insurance industry or do you think that we should just get rid of it completely?
I think they should get rid of it completely because it’s, like, a real hassle. Because when your insurance expire, you know, you’re like– you do the same paperwork that you want to get your insurance. And then, when they’re ready, it’s just like the doctor, when they’re ready, they wanna see you, it’s like when you do the paperwork. Then it’s like, “Okay, we’re gonna decide whether we can wait,” or whatever. You know, for the insurance. So they decide whether we get the insurance or not. The doctor, proper care that, you know, they want, or we want. You know.
So it sounds like, yeah. It just sounds like everyone else is making decisions for you. You don’t have much choice in this situation.
Right. I do not have much choice, you know. With the people that don’t have insurance, gotta take what they– what they get. People with insurance, they get pretty, really good medications and stuff.
Can you tell me about a time that you did experience really compassionate care? What was that like?
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Really bad?
No. Really compassionate, like, good care. Like.
A good care, or?
[overlapping] A time that you actually were treated well?
[overlapping] Oh, no, I’m tryin’ to know what it is, I really have bad experience and good experience. Well. [coughs] I had, um. One doctor, she was really, really nice to me. She did a lot of research for me while I was in emergency? But then, her name was Dr. Meyers. And I will never forget her because she gave me the right medication while I was there. She gave me for my skin that was burning. She gave me injection for everything. She gave me Benadryl for the itching, injection and everything and she put me to the right, uh, dermatologist, so then I– when [ding] I– when I went there, I never got to see her anymore so it’s like, you know. Yeah.
Was that when you had insurance, or didn’t you?
No, I didn’t have insurance.
No, no. What hospital?
That Robert Wood. Her name was Dr. Meyers. And I never got to see her no more. She gave me the medications and stuff.
So then, how would you say, like, what percentage would you estimate that you get good care with insurance versus bad care? How does that scale balance?
Wow. Hmm. It balance– Bad medication is really low, and you get good medication is really high, so.
But how many times? Basically, you saw Dr. Meyers how many times?
I saw her one time.
And then how many times have you seen doctors that haven’t been able to help you?
Many times. I’d say about, about fifteen, twenty times. And stuff.
Okay. So maybe you could just say that, like, maybe you could just say that, you know, “I’ve been treated really well maybe one out of fifteen times.”
And also, uh. It’s, uh, excuse me. [pause] There’s a dermatologist in Highland Park that’s right across the bridge. I went there, you know, I didn’t have much money. To see the man and have insurance. So, I had to see the dermatologist lady, I had to pay 100 dollars out of my pocket. And I’m, like, really mad. Really, really mad. You know, took my shirt off, she just looked at me, she just sat down on the computer, and she said, “Oh, well, I’m gonna order you medication.” She didn’t give me anything there! And then her assistant came with this full of bag of medication and, uh, to take a bath and shower. That didn’t help. And I said, “Well, can you give me a shot? You can, you can look in the computer because there’s another, uh, medication, like, for eczema like shots and pills.” But she didn’t bother lookin’ it up. She just wanted the money. So, after that, never got– I never went back because I felt like I wasn’t treated right.
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And the medications and the little things that it– when you take a shower, it’s like a– that you take a shower with. I couldn’t take it no more because it was like hurting my skin and burning with those. And I called them, “Well, you’re gonna have to come back,” and I said, “Well, I can’t afford to pay 100 dollars for a visit because that’s too much.” You know? And, basically, really, my mother was helping me with that, and I was like, to my mom, “That’s too much! 100 dollars.” “No, ‘cause they’re gonna treat you!” I said, “No, they’re gonna– with no insurance.” And she was like “Yeah,” she, my mother was sayin’, “you know, you don’t have insurance, no, nobody wants to treat you, not even a dermatologist.” Yeah.
So when you said to the dermatologist, “I can’t come back because I can’t afford it,” what is– what is her response to that?
She was like, “Well, whenever I get more money or whatever, or insurance,” you know, “come back.” I said, “Okay”, you know. But, then after that I didn’t go back because, you know, every time I see the dermatologist, it’s gonna be 100 dollars and I can’t afford 100 dollars. Or, if my mom lended me 100 dollars you know that’s– that’s too much.
Yeah, especially when they’re just, uh, experimenting and things don’t work, and so then you–
[overlapping, inaudible]
[overlapping] have to pay for them to experiment.
And then when they come in, I take my shirt off, and she said “Oh yeah, it is eczema.” And I said, “Well, how long is it gonna take to go away?” And she said, “About two, three weeks. And then, then it’ll go away.” I still have it from like, here up.
Even today?
Yeah! I still have it. It’s on my legs, everywhere!
What’s your next plan with your eczema?
To be honest? I– I really don’t know. Just don’t know.
How does it feel to have that amount of eczema on your body right now? Are you in pain?
It hurts. Itches. It burns. You know, and when it happens so severe, I go to the hospital. And if they do, they don’t give me the proper care like I was saying before is they give you a– a Benadryl pill and then they send me home. That’s it. It’s like the dermatology. I paid them 100 dollars and she didn’t even bother to, she came in, she did a little, she sat on her computer, “Oh, I’m gonna order you this.” I said, “You can’t order because I don’t have any money for it.” And she gave me some cream and stuff but that didn’t work. Made my skin get a little worser. And I said, “Can you give me some?” She tells me, she don’t have anything there. I said, “Well, you could order and have me come back. And,” you know, “and I can take it!” There! And that’s it, but I never went back after that first visit.
Um. I just wanna look at my questions to see. [papers flipping]
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Wow. Yeah, so it’s,– it’s also interesting because sounds like you’re having to problem solve for the doctors?
Yes.
Too? And you’re having to be creative for the doctors, but the doctors are just rigid in what they’re thinking.
Yeah! What they think and then that’s it. Like I said, they care for insurance and money
Right.
Dermatologists, doctors. Yeah! That’s all they care for.
Okay, so here my other question, because I feel like this is a repeated thing that happens again and again, right? When you don’t have insurance, it sounds like this happens m– the majority, like 90% of the time. So do you feel like there’s just bad doctors? Like, the doctors are just bad, or do you feel the hospital system as a whole is creating an atmosphere where this can kind of happen?
Yeah, it’s– it’s the system. You know. I don’t blame the doctors and that because, you know. Yeah. That’s how it is, and they should change the system and they should change the everything, you know? So. That’s what I feel. And I feel really bad that sometimes, uh, I don’t even wanna go to the hospital anymore because, you know, I’m getting tired. You know, and I’m– I’m not getting the right treatment.
Yeah. Yeah! I was gonna ask you that, too. Um. Has this experience caused you to avoid going to hospitals?
Yes, avoid, yeah. It really does.
And before these bad experiences– so basically, before you didn’t have insurance, how did you feel about hospitals before all of this started happening? What was your–
When I had the insurance and everything, I was feeling, “Oh, okay!” You know, say, “I’ll get a good treatment, a lot of people get a good treatment.” But when I have– when I lost my insurance, then it’s like, “Oh, now I know what everybody goin’ through, because I’m going through the same thing, with no insurance or nothing, and getting bad experience from doctors and dermatologists.” You know? And, they should help people. [church bell tolls] It’s not for the insurance.
Yeah, it’s interesting ‘cause it’s like, when you have the great insurance from your job, you kind of like, you have this idea that everybody’s getting treated the same.
Yeah.
And so it’s like, you have to be on the other side to really understand what other people go through.
Yeah!
Um, did you– did you trust hospitals in the past?
Yes. I really did. [coughs] But now I really don’t.
Could you say that all in a sentence so that I can use it? Like, “I used to trust–”
Yeah, I used to, I used to trust, uh, hospital and the system because I think they’re doin’ a really good thing. But now I don’t trust hospitals anymore because with the insurance, and they treat you really bad, you know, now. So, now I’m just scared to go to the hospitals, you know? If, in the hospitals, I don’t go anymore. Sometimes I find a tray– a way to treat my asthma and my eczema and stuff myself. You know, and stuff. So.
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Oh, wow. So, you treat this yourself, so you do, like, your own remedies? For this?
Um. I don’t do my own remedies. What it is, is, you know. Um. My mom knows that I don’t go to the hospitals anymore. Sometime she try to help me, like, over the counter medications for my asthma and, um, my eczema where she try– she helps me and give me money to buy, to medicate like, over the counter or, you know. As, asthma and eczema and stuff, so. They’re pretty, you know. They’re a little high in the medication, but, it’s the cream and the inhalers and stuff, so. I try to get those as much as I can and try to avoid going into the hospital because I don’t– when I go to the hospitals, I don’t get treated right. I get treated poorly.
What about your diabetes? How do you manage that?
Uh. I try, my mom, uh, uses the same metformin that I use, so she let me, she get a quantity because she has good insurance. So she get a good quantity and she gives me a couple whenever I need it, so. Yeah. [pause]
Wow. That’s like, what you had to do.
Yeah. I don’t even wanna go to the hospitals anymore. It’s really hard. I mean, not for me, but everybody else. [shuffling]
Let me see if there’s anything else [inaudible]. Um. So then, I guess. Yeah, I think I asked all these. Um. Could you just tell me, I don’t know, just in general, like, how do you feel your health is doing these days and what, what you’re doing for yourself to try to stay, like, mentally healthy through all of this?
Well, you know, well. Like– like I said, I treated– I treat my own self with my medication that– from the store. You know, I do my little exercise, you know. Eat right. You know, I try to do a lot of things that the doctors and derms supposed to help me with. And stuff. So, and for that, I use it my own self, so. You know, pretty good. I’ve been feelin’ pretty good ever since I been treating my eczema and stuff? It’s not that itching or whatever because I have the cream and I have the inhaler, so. I feel pretty good for myself.
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And you’re taking care of yourself?
Yes, I’m taking care of myself.
And do you have other help? Um, like do you have friendships that you can rely on? Things like that.
No, no. I just. Basically, I stay to myself. You know, people, my mom. So, basically, but I’m feeling pretty good since I haven’t been into the hospital in a while.
Well, anything that you would like? [chuckles] Other people to know about hospitals who might just have insurance and think that they’re– who really like the current system?
Yeah! People with the insurance, they livin’ pretty good because you get good medication, you get the good care and everything. But, and if, uh, you don’t have no medication, no, um, insurance, you get treated poorly or badly.
Yeah, so you just would like them to understand that that’s real?
[overlapping] Yeah, they, the doctors and insurance should understand that regardless of, you, [coughs] excuse me. If your paperwork is still processing, you know, they should give you some kind of temporarily, um, insurance. Until the– the other one goes through. But they don’t, you know. It’s a system where it has to be changed somewhere, you know. Somebody has to find the right way to change the system. Because if you, uh, fill out insurance for your new health insurance, meanwhile it’s processing. They’ll say, “Okay, well, we’re gonna send you a new, uh, temporary card until this one gets processed.” But they don’t do anything like that. To be honest, they really don’t care. They really don’t care.
What do you think, um, are there any other suggestions you have for changing the whole system?
[inhale] I– I wish, I don’t know. Somebody, somehow should change the system. Somebody or somehow should change it.
Yeah, like there’s, like, one clear kind of answer that stands out to me is like, to take away the–the money kind of, um. The– the ability for greed to run a hospital? You know, to cap the payment that doctors and CEOs can make.
Yeah!
And to–
The CEOs and the doctors, the nurses and insurance and everybody. They’re making all this money. And they can’t get, they can’t help not even one person or people with– without insurance. And they should help somebody! Yeah. That’s what they should do. And just, they should give free healthcare for everybody! They should give free healthcare to people that need it, people that have insurance, that, you know, they got that good insurance! But free healthcare for everybody! They should do! Even the doctors!
[overlapping] Yeah, you could– yeah, I think that would [ding] change everything.
Yeah, it would change everything!
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Yeah, even the doctors, right?
Yeah! Everything! And everyone. [laughs] Yeah. That’s what I think. They should, I mean, you know. Not think, they should do it! Permanently help them! You know?
Cool! I– I agree. [shuffling] Okay. I’m turning this off now.
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