Johnny Wood details the hurdles that formerly incarcerated individuals face during the reentry process including securing housing, finding a job, and struggling to find reliable transportation.
“Well, it’s always good to have positive people around you. That’s always going to help you to stay positive and work towards your goals, and that’s something that I actually try to pass on to the people at work. It’s like, if you have negativity in your life, stay away from it. Always go to something positive first.”
Annotations
Learn More: Lila Kazemian, “Can People Change for the Better in Prison?,” The Crime Report, January 16, 2020.
Learn More [2]: Colleen O’Dea, “New Law Aims for Dramatic Shift in How NJ Inmates Will Get Ready for Life Outside Prison,” NJ Spotlight News, February 1, 2021.
Learn More [3]: Etienne Benson, “Rehabilitate or Punish?,” American Psychological Association 34, no. 7 (August 2003).
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Ala’ Jitan
Conducted Remotely
September 10, 2020
Transcription by Rutgers Oral History Archive
Annotations by Jofther Jadoc
0:00
Austin: Solid red, perfect. Okay, you guys are good to go, I believe, okay excellent, thank you. Thanks a lot.
All right, great. Thanks Austin.
Thanks Johnny.
Johnny Wood: Yes. Let me get my mask off in here.
Yes, so how are you doing?
I’m sorry, I forgot something.
That’s okay.
Johnny, the video is not being used.
Got you.
Just the audio, very important.
All right, I’m doing good today, how about yourself?
I’m doing well. Yes, I thought I’d start it off by just by introducing myself a little bit. I’m a recent graduate of Rutgers, down the street. I studied history and geography, did environmental history, cultural history, a little bit of race and ethnic studies. So, I’m interested in a bunch of things. I have some questions that I set up for today but, as Austin mentioned, you don’t have to answer all of them or if you feel like you want to talk about something else, it’s up to you.
No, sounds good, sounds good.
So, at any point, you’re like, “I don’t want to talk about that or let me tell you more about this,” go for it. So, yes, and I guess we can get into you. I have a couple questions to start us off.
All right.
They’re going to be really easy and then as we go along, they’re going to be a little more detailed.
All right.
So, we’ll just start with your name, if you want, or however you prefer it.
Johnny, everybody calls me Jay.
Okay, J as in the letter?
Yes, just the letter J, yeah.
Okay, cool. All right, yes, so then your age?
Twenty-four.
And then your gender or sex identity as you prefer?
Male, yes.
Okay, and then your racial and ethnic identity as you prefer it?
Most of the time I just put Caucasian, but I am also Native American.
Okay, and if you see me here, on this side, I just have a notepad where I’m writing notes– that’s all I’m doing.
Yes, that’s fine.
Okay, and do you identify with a specific religious group or religion?
No, I believe there is a higher power but I’m not quite sure what it is so I’m kind of open to all.
Okay, you said “all”?
I’m open to all, any religion, I’m open to hear what they have to say.
Okay, cool. We can get into more of these in a little bit of detail but I’m just kind of getting confirmation.
Right.
And then your place of birth if you remember it?
Tampa, Florida.
Oh, okay. All right, and what was your last place of residence before you got to where you are now?
Well, let’s see, I was in the men’s shelter for three months before I moved into this apartment.
Okay.
And then before that I was locked up and I was living in different roommate situations, so.
The men’s shelter, do you remember what it was called?
Ozanam, I’m not sure hot to spell it.
That’s alright.
Ozanam men’s shelter in New Brunswick.
It’s in New Brunswick, all right.
Yes.
Okay, and then you said before that, you were–
I was incarcerated for one year.
Okay, do you want to talk more about that or?
I was helping out a family member. They were stealing money from their boyfriend and the boyfriend was going to count the money, so they asked me if I could do something about it. They left the house open for me, I took the rest of the money, and I had also brought my girlfriend along with me. She got in trouble for drugs, so she tried to get a little bit less time, decided, “let’s tell a different story.”
Got you.
Yes, no, no, that’s it, okay.
Okay, if you don’t want to talk about it anymore, that’s fine, but do you feel like that, that kind of related to– you said after that– you were– after you got out, were you in the middle of– or kind of– you said you were in between roommate situations by the time you got out? Or, was that before?
No, before I got locked up, I was really heavy into drugs.
Okay.
And I was selling drugs so I didn’t have a way to show any proof that I was making money, so a lot of apartments didn’t want to take me. So, I would just find people that needed a roommate and I’d stay with them.
5:31
Got you. So, then to kind of make it more broad for you, when would you say your relationship to being housing insecure started for you?
Um–
And you can take your time too.
Yes, probably July is the last time I’ve actually felt secure where I’m at. I’m not worried about anything.
Yes, that’s good. So, in July was it when you secured your housing?
Yeah.
Was it through NeighborCorps?
It was through NeighborCorps, yes.
So, how did that all come to play for you with NeighborCorps?
Well, they had been talking to me when I was locked up for a few months.
Okay.
Then when I got out, they helped me with everything I needed and then I don’t– I guess another program, I think it was a Luce program.
Yes.
Had some offers for people and fortunately everything just kind of lined up.
Okay.
I was able to move in. The next day, I was able to start work.
Oh wow.
And the job I’m at right now, I’m getting fifty to sixty hours a week, so.
Wow, okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so there’s a couple things in there, what kind of, how are you all communicating while you’re inside?
They would come visit me, we have a little visiting area which is a lot of fun because every time you get a visit, you got to get a stirp search but, you know.
Okay, so was that all?
So, they would visit me, give me paper work, let me know what was going on, on the outside, but other than that, as soon as I got out, I got a cell phone, started communicating by cell phone.
Okay, yes, that’s great, so that relationship basically was starting to build even before you were, where you’re at, yes.
Right.
So, was that like voluntary, for you? Did you have to sign up? Did somebody reach you? Did you reach them?
No, I signed up for it.
Okay, yes.
I signed up for every program that could help me possible, because I wanted to make sure I was alright when I got out.
Okay, yes, so then– that would also, I guess I forgot to ask, and if you don’t want to answer, that’s fine, where was that? So, that was here in New Jersey when you were on the inside?
Yes, it was Middlesex County.
Sorry, what was it?
Middlesex County.
Oh, Middlesex County, all right.
Yes.
Yes, that’s– so that would be, I guess you would say, is the major point of the transition was you getting out and then, yes, finding work, finding a place to stay, and so right now you said you’re working fifty to sixty hours a week. Where are you working?
At Nutrifresh, frozen food storage.
Okay.
I’m a machine operator, basically, we process food, make it safe for shelf storage.
Okay. How are you liking that?
It’s not bad. I actually run a crew of about ten people right now.
Okay.
They’re all great. They’re illegal immigrants but they’re all great people.
9:20
Okay, yes, what else do you want to say about that relationship? Is it a professional relationship for you? Is there a little bit of a personal relationship going on to?
Yes, it’s professional but if I get the opportunity to joke around and have a little fun, I always like to do that. It lifts everybody’s spirits.
Okay, so it’s like you’re also going to work and in a good way you’re getting more than just work done while you’re there.
Yes, no, I’m always trying to make everybody’s day better if I can.
Alright, so you’ve been doing that for how long then? You said since July, right?
July 2nd, yes.
Had you done that sort of work before?
Nothing like that in particular. I’ve done construction, warehouse work, stuff like that, but I’ve never been a machine operator.
Okay.
A little bit different but not too difficult.
Okay. Yes, so then what is your kind of, like, prospect? Do you know how long you are going to keep this job or what is kind of going on in the future for it?
Well, the supervisor said, this was two weeks ago, he said, “Well, I think I finally found a replacement for me and it’s you.” And I was like, “Oh really?”
Oh, okay.
He already wants to make me a supervisor, so there can be a future there.
Okay.
I mean, I do have other dreams but right now, until I get my life straightened out, this will definitely work.
Okay, what sorts of dreams?
Simple stuff. I want to get into transportation in someway, either pilot, truck driver, something of that nature, some sort of transportation.
Okay, yes, so that’s very different. Do you feel like you know what the pathway is for that before you said you?
Yes, the truck driver thing is going to be a lot easier than the pilot but it’s– they actually have schools that will pay for your CDL, which is about ten thousand dollars if they don’t, and you have to work for that company for a year before you can go to another company and to be a pilot, there’s just a lot of school, a lot of tests.
Yes.
But I don’t know. I have interest in both. So, we’ll see what happens.
Yes, I’ve heard a little bit from other folks about both actually, about interstate driving, is that truck driving?
Yes.
And piloting, but what would you say is what got you interested in that?
I’ve always love semi-trucks ever since I was a little kid and then I took my first plane ride a few years back and I loved it.
Okay.
And I was like, you know what, I could do this, started downloading all the apps for pilots. Tried out simulators, with the full yoke, the joystick and pedals and all that just to see, and I was like, yes, you just put this on the backburner, see if we could do this one day.
Okay, do you feel like you have access to that now, or?
I could definitely start getting into it.
Yes.
It’s just with working so many hours.
Yes.
And I work overnight.
Okay, it’s third shift.
So yes, my days are kind of shot most of the time because I’m trying to get some sleep.
13:16
Okay, yes, so tell me about that. What’s your day to day look like now, especially with this pandemic going on?
It’s actually fairly normal other than I go to work at five in the evening and I don’t get home until five or six in the morning.
Wow.
So, I mean, other than just the weird hours, it’s fairly normal. I still go to the store all the time. I just wear my mask.
Yes.
The pandemic, I haven’t really been afraid of any of it.
Okay.
I’m still young and healthy. Even if I do get it, there’s a good chance I’ll make it. So, it’s like, I’m not going to purposely get sick but, at the same time, I’m not too worried about it.
Okay, sure, how are you getting to work?
My one friend from the men’s shelter has actually been giving me a ride too work and I usually get a Lyft or Uber back home.
Okay. So, as you’re mentioning, who are you surrounded by? Is just friends or family or people in the community?
My mom’s close but I don’t get to see her that much. I talk to her every day but I don’t get to see her very often– Mostly work friends. There’s a few people at work that I always talk to on break after work.
Yes.
I’m a pretty boring guy. I just stay to myself, watch my videos on YouTube, so.
Yes, it’s all about perspective right. What kind of things, what kind of stuff do you get into in your free time then?
Nowadays, not much.
Yes.
I do a lot of shopping, which I shouldn’t do.
Okay.
I go on Amazon and just start buying stuff. Like I have a package at my house right now, I don’t even know what it is. I just buy so many things.
You kind of forgot you ordered it?
Yes, I got a call at 7:30 for my camouflage pants and they said it’s Amazon. And I was like, “What did I order?” [laughter] And now, I have another delivery. I have no idea what that is.
15:47
I mean, you’re saying it, kind of a lot of people are doing that these days but I guess– so you’re– if you could remind me actually, where is it that you’re staying now?
I’m actually at [REDACTED] which is right across the street from the church.
Okay.
Literally right across the street.
Is that a shelter?
No, It’s an apartment. It’s not very big. We all have our own room. I have three roommates.
Okay.
And it’s right above a restaurant.
Okay. So, you have basically freedom to come and go, order packages.
Yes, nobody’s questioning me, nobody’s telling me what to do, it’s nice.
Yes, okay.
It’s been a little while since it’s been like that, so yes.
So yes, do you feel like– and you kind of already said this, but do you feel like that’s regular for you? Do you feel like this is something you’re used to or this is something that you’ve had for the first time?
No, I’ve definitely had this before, but I’ve never been able to go into my bank account and see money that I’ve made the right way and I’ve always had a lot more unstable households, so this is the first time I actually feel at peace. So, it’s a little bit different, but at the same time I have had situations where I’m pretty stable.
Okay, what was that like for you before, the unstable parts?
It was absolutely terrible. Drugs played a big part in that. I think I’ve tried every single drug except for PCP and I’ve never used a needle. Other than that, I’ve tried everything out there, so.
Yes.
That really makes you an unstable person, and then when you’re an unstable person, you tend to be around unstable people, and just everything in your life is out the window from hour to hour, minute to minute, you don’t know what’s going on, so.
Yes.
Yeah, just don’t do drugs. That’s the only recommendation I can make.
Drugs are powerful, it’s a fact. What would say was your way out of that?
Actually, getting locked up, even though it was one of the worst experiences of my life, it was probably the best thing for me because I was able to reflect, see what I actually want to do in life. Kind of realize, “Hey, do you ever want to come back to this place?” “No? Alright, you need to change your ways.”
Yes, so what else were?
No, go ahead.
I’ll try not to interrupt as much. I guess also to remind again, whatever you’re comfortable with sharing, so if I’m asking something that you don’t want to elaborate on that’s fine, but what else, in that year, that you were on the inside, did you feel like you reflected on as well?
Sorry, you broke up on that last part.
19:30
Oh yes, I was just saying, with that one year, that you were on the inside, what other kind of things were going through your mind?
It was mostly just self-reflection. I actually got along with everybody pretty well. I can pretty much go anywhere, talk to anybody, it doesn’t really matter, and I was actually pretty well taken care of in there. So, it was mostly just what do I want out of life. I found out I might have a son.
Wow, okay.
So, I was like, if I do, I want to make sure I could at least help out the mom. She doesn’t want me to be in his life, but if I could send some money now and then.
Wow.
So, I just decided I’m going to start doing life the right way.
Yes. Hey, that’s a lot and also being able to do that, connect with other people like that is a tough skill. Not everybody could do that, so.
I know. There’s a few people I know that they can’t talk to anybody.
Yes, so wow, again, so who do you feel like are your people as all this is going on, as your getting into the transition of, kind of doing better?
My mom’s always been there.
Yes.
That will always be my number one. One of my new friends at work, [REDACTED].
Okay.
She actually helps me because she has a lot of problems in her life. She’s working hard, has three kids, single mom, she’s trying to make it, and she has a lot of issues in life and it actually helps me to help her with her issues, talk to her, talk things out. It makes, I don’t know, it makes me feel better.
Yes, it’s funny how that works.
Yes, I could definitely go to her though if I ever had an issue or wanted to talk. Then [REDACTED}, he’s a mechanic at work and he actually might be leaving to a new job today, which is good.
Okay.
An extra five an hour, an extra ten percent at night, so it’s good for him but he’s really cool too. Another guy, you can just talk to him, no judgment.
Kind of throw anything at him.
Yes.
Right, so yes, it sounds like, I mean, you said the word boring earlier but it sounds like you’re, in a good way, getting through a routine being at home, being at work and I know it’s like, you’re saying, day in and day out.
Yes, and this is something I tell [REDACTED} all the time, boring is good. If it’s boring, that means there’s no drama, you don’t have to worry about anything, it’s good.
Yes, I mean, it sounds like you’re getting into a routine and, compared to what you said was kind of go around in your life, or the forces in your life before– What would you say is like– do you feel like it’s a before and after thing or do you feel like it’s a progress kind of thing? Or, you can say it in your own words too.
Yes, I mean, life is always progress. It’s whether you progress in a good way or a bad way. For me, it’s just me finally deciding to do the right thing and progressing in the right direction and trying to make something good out of my life instead of ending up locked up all the time.
Yes,
Who knows how many kids, because I’m just with random women all the time? It’s a fun lifestyle but at the same time it’s not worth it.
23:39
Yes, I get it. So, what do you feel like is the most rewarding thing for you then? Is it maintaining those relationships as you were saying earlier or is it going back to that kind of?
Definitely having good relationships, especially with my mom. She’s really proud of what I’m doing.
Yes.
And just being able to come home and not look over my shoulder or worry. It’s just, it’s a good feeling.
Yes. What more do you want to say about your mom as we’ve brought her up already?
Just.
What’s she like?
I don’t know, it’s my mom so I’m going to say she’s the best person in the world but, you know.
That’s fair.
She’s had a very rough life. She got kicked out of the house when she was fifteen, was homeless until she was probably about seventeen. Abusive first husband, she met my dad, then he ended up being abusive. Now, she’s with another guy and he’s verbally abusive but, through it all, she keeps fighting and she never let’s that change her spirit and she’s like me, she can talk to anybody. She doesn’t care.
She passed it down.
Yes. Yes, that’s something in our genetics. We can just talk to anybody. People love to come up and talk to us for some reason.
Yes, that tends to happen.
No, she’s a great person. She’s just trying to make it.
Yes, what sort of things do you all talk about checking on?
Oh, we just talk about boring old stuff. What she’s doing today, like she’s at the dentist right now. I ask her what she has for dinner. She’s always asking me about work. I try to explain it. She’s like, “I have no idea what you’re doing.” I’m like, they’re not going to let me take pictures of what I’m doing because it’s kind of secret, so it’s like, “I’ll just try my best. I got to explain all this.” But just every day life.
Yes. You mentioned you’re not able to see her as often. Does she live elsewhere?
No, she actually lives less than a mile from where I work.
Oh okay.
And works only five miles away, so it’s not that she’s too far. It’s just her boyfriend doesn’t like me very much and he also is afraid because I’m around people that I might be positive for COVID. So, he doesn’t even want to take a chance, which I get it but it’s also a good excuse for him not to have to see me because he doesn’t like me at all. But that’s okay, I make more money than him.
So yes, it looks like you’re working with beyond just– I’m sure you want to see your mom more often but you have to work with her own family situation, housing situation, and the boundaries that come with that.
Yes.
27:01
Yes, so that kind of brings it back to like one thing we are kind of interested in and hearing more about is the ways that this pandemic has affected people’s social lives, people’s work lives, but also people’s access to what they need.
Right.
Do you feel like, besides this thing going on and it’s kind of like a little bit more what you said, there’s a little more (to it?).
There’s more to it, yes.
But besides your connection to your mom, kind of being– there’s like a barrier now, what other kinds of things do you feel like popped up that’s affecting your access to things?
Let’s see, going out to the movies was definitely cutoff, restaurants, stuff like that. I didn’t do that very often but on occasion I do like to go out and go somewhere.
Yes.
Fortunately, the stores have been good, everything’s been stocked up enough to where I can get what I need. Getting a ride back home from work is a little bit difficult because nothing’s open, so they don’t really need drivers at five o’clock, six o’clock in the morning.
Everyone’s asleep.
Yes, so, it’s a little difficult getting to and from work sometimes but other than that nothing’s really changed. It’s been a pretty easy transition to deal with. Just wear a mask wherever you go and it’s been pretty easy.
Yes, I mean, that makes sense. I guess I’m seeing with your transportation situation, that’s kind of what’s mostly on your plate.
Yes.
The rider-driver ready.
I might wait, I think the longest I’ve waited for a driver was forty-five minutes.
Oh wow, okay.
But it’s not that big a deal, you know, I’m used to– if I have to, I’ll get an hour of sleep before my next shift and I’m at work full energy let’s do it.
Okay, how do you do that?
I’m still young enough to. [laughter] Once I get older, I’m not going to be able to do that anymore.
Yes, I bet, I guess what else will keep you going these days?
I just trying to do the best thing for myself.
Yes.
That’s what keeps me motived to get everything done that I do.
Yes. Hey, that’s good, when you have that motivation, it’s good to hang on to it as you’re doing. So, there’s a lot of interesting and kind of important things going on in your life right now.
Yes.
So, yes, what, I know we’re kind of, I don’t want to say we’re rushing through it because we have as much time as we need to take but if there’s anything that we missed in that transition period, for you, was there something that you feel like important, that you feel like you want to get out?
No, the only thing I can say is, if you really want to be a better person, there are always good people out there that’ll help you do that.
Yes.
Just because somebody’s in a certain situation, never think less of them, never look down on them, always give them the opportunity first. But other than that, no, we covered a lot, we covered a lot.
Yes, I have more questions but I don’t want to skip ahead.
Right, no, no.
And kind of, like, in the past year– do you feel like was really meaningful and kind of stuck out more.
No, just give people an opportunity.
Yes, it sounds like, too, you also reached out going the other way and got in touch with folks to help to get to where you’re at.
Yes.
31:36
Yes, that’s good. I guess somewhat related then, one question I did have and we’ve been asking folks, where did you feel like, because 2020 has been a year, but where do you feel like, as things are really, really quickly happening, like where do you feel like you’re getting your news and your updates from?
I don’t pay all that much attention to the news. I get emails all the time about what’s going on with reopening and stuff like that but most of the stuff, it doesn’t– I look at the weather, I look at what’s being reopened. That’s it. I don’t pay attention to what the President’s doing. I don’t really care. I don’t– it doesn’t bother me.
Okay, so, you’re your own filter.
I can’t control it, yes.
Yes. So, when you’re checking in on your work friends, or your mom, or other people around you, what’s your main form of communication then?
Texting folks, calling folks. Yes, we– it’s a combination. Like with my mom, I’ll text her and let her know little things but on like lunch break or before work, always talk to her on the phone, on lunch break, I tell her goodnight because it’s going to be till five o’clock in the morning before I get to talk to her again, so. Yes, text her when I get home. Just little stuff, my friends, I’ll text them. If I don’t see them at work, which I’ll see them all the time, so if we happen to have the weekend off, I’ll just shoot them a text, “How you doing today?” Make sure they’re doing alright still.
That’s good. You feel like you’re doing that more now with social distancing?
No, because I always kind of social distanced. I was never a big fan of people.
Yes.
I’m kind of an introvert. I kind of like being by myself and just doing my own thing.
Sure.
So, this really did affect me.
Yes, hey, that’s fair, yes. I’ve heard that from other people too.
Yes.
If you’re introverted, a lot is changing around you, but if you already know kind of what you need out of your day, out of– Yes, I mean, that’s fair. Yes, I guess– you mentioned something earlier because I do this too, I spend a lot of time with like watching tutorial videos and stuff.
Right.
I guess I wanted to ask, do you have an artistic expression or something that’s just yours?
I love drawing.
Okay.
I don’t know how to describe the style of art. A little bit Gothic, a little bit. Oh, what’s the word I’m looking for, kind of tribal.
Okay.
So, I don’t know, it’s– I kind of try to create my own letters that nobody else has done before so I can be a little bit different.
Oh wow, okay.
I make my own style of skulls that way, just to be a little bit different and some of the stuff I want to get tattooed on me but just haven’t found the right person yet. My tattoo shop is closed still, so.
Okay, so yes, tell me more, what’s Gothic art to you? Like what’s that actually mean?
It looks a little demonic. My letters actually kind of look like flames. There’s a lot of flames or death related type things in them. But then I’ll also have kind of tribal stamp in it like an eyeball in the background with certain patterns. So, it’s some, I don’t know. I like anything with art.
No, that’s really cool. How long have you been at this? How long have you been doing that kind of drawing?
God, probably since I was four years old, drawing stuff like that.
Cool, that’s basically twenty years, right.
Yes.
Okay, have you ever let that go or are you constantly doing that?
No, I have little breaks in between. I’ll take like six months of not drawing anything but then I’ll get into it for another six months and I’m just heavy every day drawing but it actually turned out really good because when I was locked up, people would pay me for drawings and I actually did a little bit of tattooing. So, I was able to do names for people. They wanted their girl’s name on their neck and I said, “Alright, just pay me. You’re going to regret this but go ahead, pay me.”
Yes, tattoos are like that. Do you design your own tattoos also? You said you wanted your drawings (??).
Yes, no, I have a couple tattoos that I want. I have one that I want to put right here. I’m still debating about that one because I kind of want a different tattoo right here, but I’ll see what I decide.
Yes.
Then, I’m actually working on my arm piece.
Okay, that’s really good.
Yes, it was five hours in the chair but I want to get a whole Native American landscape with the sun on the top of my shoulder, and then the other side is going to be a school of the wolf and it’s going to be the side that’s death, and it’s going to be a moon under my arm and it’s going to have the gravestones, and on the other side it’s going to be the tents, so it’s going to be a nice little life and death.
37:55
Yes, I really like that tattoo, it is pretty sick. How do you feel like you got around to that idea, because you mentioned earlier, you said with your background?
Yes, I don’t know, I’ve always felt very close to my Native American ancestors in a lot of ways and whenever I go to where we originate because we originate up in the mountains, not too far, it’s like a four-hour drive from here.
Okay, where is that?
Virginia mountains.
Okay, yes.
So, whenever I go there, I feel at home, I feel at peace. Even when my life was really crazy, I just felt at peace there, so it’s, I don’t know. It’s funny how your brain works and how things happen.
Yes. Do you feel like, and this is can be an out there question, but do you feel like when you’re going through these experiences in your life, do you directly connect them to that kind of space and that background and your ancestors?
Like I told you, I don’t have a particular religion I believe in. I’m open to all theories.
Yes.
So, past lives and stuff like that, I kind of wonder about those things and I believe that this is a vessel for a spirit and once our vessel is gone, our spirit moves on somewhere else. So, I always kind of wonder like, I sometimes feel like I’ve been places before that I know I’ve never been. It’s, like I said, it’s funny.
Yes, it’s cool. Well, tell me about that. Do you have a regular check in for your kind of spiritual thoughts?
No.
That place you go to.
No, sometimes I’ll talk to friends about it. Most of the time, they agree with me. I’m like, “Okay, I’m not the only one that feels this way. Alright, cool.”
Okay, but it’s not like a regular practice for you?
No, no, most of the time I’m just living life, seeing what happens. I don’t worry about all the spiritual things. I’ll find out one day.
Yes, we kind of all share that as humans, right.
Yes.
Yes, one day we’ll find out. So, do you feel like that’s connected to your art in a lot of ways or when you do art is it something different?
No, when I draw, most of the time, I don’t have a plan before I start. Most of the time it’s just, let’s see what my hand does. Let’s see where my mind goes, let’s see what happens.
Nice.
And it always comes back to that.
Yes, do you have everything you need? Do you like to draw? Do you like to catch a bunch of– what kind of medium do you draw in? So many questions.
No, most of the time I like one-take art which is you get one chance at it, just draw whatever you’re going to draw, if you mess up, you mess up. So, most of the time, I just use a pen and a piece of paper and I just see what happens.
Okay. So, you don’t get into the fancy paints and canvasses and stuff?
No, I don’t like paint, blending colors and all that, I’m like no, no. I know how to shade but I am not blending colors and doing all that.
That’s alright, I was just, yes.
Yes, no.
And then, you do this all at home or are there other places you go to?
I take a notepad with me in case I get the urge to draw on break, but most of the time, yes, when I get home. I can’t go to sleep right away but what I’ll do is I just get the notepad out, draw something small, watch a video, go to sleep.
It seems like it’s working.
Yes.
Yes. So, you’re drawing a lot now?
Yes, not every day, probably three to four times a week I’ll draw something out.
Yes, I get it actually, you probably notice in the back, I play instruments and so.
Yes, I did notice that.
And a lot artists, and we ask other people this too, it’s common response to like, you just get really really busy, like three months and then for three months you won’t touch it.
Yes.
Yes, that’s just kind of the nature of it, but I guess I’m curious then to find out, and again, if this is not related, that’s fine, but do you feel like this shift in your life, has it affected your connection to art? Has it affected your connection to–
No, not at all, if anything, it’s made my connection with art a little bit stronger.
Yes,
Because being sober, my brain works a lot better than it used to, so.
Yes.
Yes, I feel a little bit more connected now.
Do you still have artworks from before? Do you save them?
There’s a few somewhere floating around, I’m not sure where, but I’m sure my mom has some stuff from when I was younger and then there’s a lot of stuff from when I was locked up because there’s nothing else to do in there, so you’re drawing a lot.
Yes, yes, I think it’s really cool that you were able to keep that as a kind of constant, yes, whether or not you were actually doing it all the time like you mentioned earlier but yes, at one point, you said you were making money doing it?
Yes, yes.
That’s nice. What do you feel like there’s a future for that for you?
It’s just a hobby. There’s nothing more to it. It’s just something that I do to relax. Kind of get out of my own head, any kind of worries, troubles I have just don’t even worry about it, just put something on paper.
Yes, that’s good, but you feel like you will probably still be doing it.
Oh yes, I’m going to be doing that for the rest of my life.
Yes.
We’ll see if my art style changes.
Yes, yes. I love that. I’m actually also kind of curious, if you want to keep talking about it, it’s fine but you mentioned the things with the letters, like do you make your own alphabet or do you just say that you?
No, no, I just change the design of the letters.
Got you.
I still want you to be able to tell what letter it is but I don’t want you to have seen that font before ever.
Okay. Yes, because when you said letters, I was thinking like ciphers but that’s a couple different things.
No, I’m not, there were a few people, when I was locked up, that were making their own languages and their own alphabets but they were also crazy, so.
45:44
Yes, so where do you feel like you are at with that? Kind of just your place in the world as you are kind of getting into the swing of having your own place and having your own kind of job and your own schedule and your own kind of freedom to move around?
I don’t know. I feel– let’s see, my place in the world–
That’s a big question, I think to string it out, yes.
I’m just another person living, doing what they can to make it. Just another normal American in this world, just trying to do what they can. Not anybody special, I’m just working hard and trying to make it.
Yes, the reason I ask that, not to make it a huge thing, because I wanted to know if how you feel connected to the events that are going around you or to the experiences that you have been having, or kind of to the people that are around you, the way that things are changing. How do you kind of stay in place? Or, do you feel connected or not, but?
Not really, I’m just so focused on what I need to do for myself, that everything else is just kind of whatever.
Yes, that’s alright. Yes, I had a few questions. Although, you kind of already alluded or mentioned earlier with kind of the way that you interact with the news and how you said you’re not really connected, but kind of more specific to your experiences, what would you say, kind of, has impacted you the most in terms of being somebody who has struggled as someone finding a place to live or what you mentioned about kind of overcoming drugs.
Definitely the drug part.
Yes.
Drugs impacted me the most out of everything I’ve been through. I’ve been shot at. I’ve been stabbed. I’ve been thrown out of cars. I’ve been run over by cars. None of that compares to being addicted to drugs. That’s the worst thing possible and it has very long-lasting effects. Like my memory, not very good. I was snorting a lot of cocaine, so I can’t smell very well anymore.
Yes.
There’s little things that you’ll notice if you’ve been doing drugs long enough that you’re just like, “Wow, this isn’t good.”
Yes, it takes a toll.
Yes.
How did that start for you?
I think it started with me drinking. I started drinking when I was ten years old and I moved up to weed when I was fourteen and then I got up here when I was eighteen, I think. I was still smoking weed, drinking, and then I met this girl and she had other drugs.
Yes.
And then I started trying Percocet, Molly, meth, like I said, pretty much everything you can name, I’ve tried it except for PCP and using a needle, heroin, all that.
Yes.
Then I settled on cocaine being my new kind of drug and yes, that was a lot of money. I was spending three to four hundred dollars a day on that habit, yes.
That’s expensive.
Yes, so, and I did a lot of desperate things that I really shouldn’t be alive right now but fortunately I am, and fortunately I’ve realized my stupid mistakes and I’m trying harder to make sure that never happens again.
Yes. I’m glad you’re here and that seems like a lot, especially that kind of relationship started at such an early age with kind of how– but yes. I don’t want to assume, but is there a part of– besides just being kind of in prison. Was it that kind of in and out for you? Do you feel like your relationship to finding a single place to live, was deeply connected to your relationship to an addiction?
Yes, definitely. If I had continued to stay at an actual job instead of selling drugs. If I had decided to be around good people instead of bad people that were using and selling drugs, my connections would have been a lot better. I could’ve found a much better place, a more stable place to live. It just would have been a completely different story.
Yes, what sort of help did you get before?
I didn’t get any help before. I was doing everything on my own, just trying to hustle every day. I would spend sixteen hours a day making money just so I could support my habit and that was selling drugs, running drugs for people, stuff like that. Selling guns, buying guns, and all sorts of craziness.
Feels like a full-time job almost.
Yes, it’s worse than a full-time job. People think selling drugs is easy. That is a lot harder than working honest.
Yes, yes. What else do you want to, I mean, for folks that don’t know?
I mean.
What else would you say about it?
It feels like a fun lifestyle when you’re in it, it really does, because everything’s moving fast. Fast women, fast cars, fast money, everything feels great, but that’s not the only thing that will come fast to you. You can die just as fast. You can get robbed just as fast. You can get locked up just as fast. There’s two sides to the coin with everything you do.
Yes, what was the point for you when you decided, “I don’t want that anymore.”
Like I said, being locked up, having all that time to reflect and then I found, when I was locked up, I actually linked up with some Trenitalia which is Dominican mafia. They were very spiritual in trying to change their lives, so it actually worked out really nice because they tried to take me in, so we’re like, so you know. What are you doing with your life? You’re still young. What are you doing? It helped me out a lot.
Was that the first time you met folks from that community?
No, growing up in Florida, there’s a lot of different– the Cubans have their own mafia. Mexican mafia of course, so you meet a lot of people like that and then there’s also the gangs like Crips, Bloods, all that, so I’ve always been around people like that but most of the time they’re still trying to do the bad things.
Got you, yes, but on the inside, it was kind of like they were giving you.
Yes, they were trying to.
Help you.
Yes, they were like, “All right kid, you’re twenty-three years old, you need to stop the BS and start trying to work towards something better.”
Yes, what, and feel free to tell me as little or as much as you can, but what kind of things did that include like on the inside? Did you have any meetings? Did you just chat with each other?
Oh yes. No, there was definitely scheduled meetings. We’d have prayer. It was a lot of times it was just us at a table. It was four others. They were all Trenitalia. [REDACTED] was the only one who really spoke good English. So, he would try to mentor me the most.
Yes.
It was a good experience and they took care of me if I ever needed food or anything. They would always help me out and anything they needed from the outside; I would always get it sent in. So, it was a mutual relationship, we kind of both helped each other, talked to each other, talked through stuff. So, it was good.
So, it’d be safe to say, because we did kind of talk about this kind of like a half hour ago, but you feel like or how do you feel like having those kinds of relationships in your life helps you or doesn’t help you?
Well, it’s always good to have positive people around you. That’s always going to help you to stay positive and work towards your goals, and that’s something that I actually try to pass on to the people at work. It’s like, if you have negativity in your life, stay away from it. Always go to something positive first.
Yes.
So, I mean, it definitely helped me a lot.
56:25
Yes. What part of that do you feel like you are you taking with you into the future, with your work, or what you want to do next or anything at all?
Just, no matter what happens, always stay positive.
Yes,
Because even in the worst situation, you can always get back out.
That kind of answered the question that I had prepared which is, for somebody that has never ever met you and knows nothing about what you’ve been through, what would you want them to know about you or about the experiences that you’ve had?
Like I said, not matter what, always be positive, make sure you keep positive people around you. If there’s negativity in your life, do your best to avoid it because it’ll only bring you down.
I’d say that’s solid advice.
Yes.
But yes, I guess it’s– there’s also a lot imbedded in that and I really appreciate you bringing up how to– those more detailed aspects of how you landed on that.
It’s–
Yes.
You have to think about yourself first.
Yes.
If you have a family, think about them still, but always think about what’s best for you first. If you worry about other people first, you’ll never be happy with yourself. So, you always got to make sure you’re happy with yourself, then you can help as many people as you want.
Yes.
You have to reach your goals and then you can help as many people as you want to reach theirs.
Yes. I like that. I feel positive just hearing that. I really do want to ask, because of, again, we covered a lot of stuff. but before I ask my last question is, was there something. like a particular story or anecdote. something you got from just kind of lately that you wanted to share, that you feel like we might have missed and you just kind of just want to get out?
No, not really. Like I said, I have a very boring life, so in most of my conversations, even though I do try to bring positivity to other people, most of my conversations are just stupid BS that’s just no importance to anything just to make somebody laugh.
Yes, like you said, boring is good.
Boring is good, yes.
I personally don’t think it’s boring, but it’s the only reason I ask that kind of as a side step is because it has been a hectic year for a lot of people and I know for yourself too, you kind of made a lot of moves just from where you were later on in the year. So, I just wanted to respect that and make sure you got whatever story you wanted to get out.
Yes, no. I mean, I’m not much for talking about myself. So, this is actually kind of out of my comfort zone but I figured, “Hey, let’s do it.”
I appreciate it and a lot of people appreciate it too that you’re kind of going for it because it’s important, because your story is important which I guess just gets me to kind of the last thing, unless you have more to share. Just what do you have– what kinds of hopes or anticipations do you have about the future, your future?
My future, I definitely want to build a family. I want the 1950s American Dream, the white picket fence. The nice little house, stuff like that. I want at least two or three kids.
Okay.
Hopefully, this whole COVID thing doesn’t last that much longer, maybe a couple more years at max before it’s completely eradicated, and I can start living a more outgoing lifestyle, meeting more people. Let’s see, what else? Just keep trying my best to make the best for myself and work in relationships, everything. Just trying my hardest to make it the best.
Yes, I like that. That sounds like a good place to be and I hope you get there.
Thank you.
Yes, of course. Yes, that covers everything I wanted to ask, so unless you got anything else you wanted to add.
No, that’s actually good timing because I have to get ready to leave for work soon.
You got to go, great. Well, Johnny, thank you so much.
Thank you.
I really appreciate your time today and if you have any questions or anything you want to follow up with going forward, just get in touch with Austin and we’re happy to take care of it.
All right, sounds perfect, thank you so much man.
All right, of course, you’re welcome. You have a great day.
You too.
All right, take it easy.
Thank you, bye.
Bye-bye.