Franklin native Mark Stephenson discusses growing up in New Brunswick in the ‘60s and how the city and surrounding areas have changed since then. He also provides details into his personal life and his entrepreneurial careers.
“I didn’t do too bad. I really didn’t do too bad. You know? My father, he was, you know, he was one of those fathers that was sometime missin’ in action. But one thing I can say, he taught me how to survive. You know? And not only by his actions, but by his just teaching, you know. Hey. He used to tell me sometimes, he said, ‘Whatever you do, you– you have to have more than one iron in the fire.’ And– and I used to question him sometimes, ‘What do you mean by that?’ And he’d tell me, he’d say, ‘If you got more than one iron in the fire, if one iron gets cold, you can pull out one hot one and put that cold one in to warm.’ And I carry that to this day. With my own kids and with anybody that I can share with. I tell them that! Because it’s the truth. If you– if you can do more than one thing, if that one thing fails you, you always can, uh, revert back to another thing!”
ANNOTATIONS
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Interview conducted remotely
February 7, 2021
Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn
Annotations by Samantha Resnick
[00:00:00]
Mark, you there?
Yeah, I’m here. I’m here.
I can hear you. Great. So I’m gonna go ahead and slate us. Uh. Today is– Sunday, February 7th, 2021, uh, just after 9 am. My name is Dan Swern from coLAB Arts and I’m here interviewing, if you wouldn’t mind saying your name please?
[scuffling] Mark A. Stephenson.
Um. So Mark, uh, thank you so much, um, for, um, having our pre-interview conversations and for your time this morning. Um. And whenever you’re ready, you can, uh, start from the beginning.
Okay! Well, I was born here in New Brunswick. I was born at St. Peter’s, um, right there on Easton Avenue, back in 1959. During that time, St. Peter’s was nothing to be like it is right now. It was a whole different lookin’, uh, hospital. You know, they had both hospitals. They had Robert Wood, um, but we called it Middlesex. Robert Wood Johnson Hospital was called Middlesex at the time. But the two hospitals was there. St. Peters always was St. Peters but that’s where I was born at in 1959. From there, um, I– I lived– I lived in Franklin. Um. Was a place called “Parkside.” That I can remember. Uh, the part that I remember is when I was, maybe about– 5– 5 or 6 years old. And, you know, we lived in the Projects there, it was called Parkside, uh, Projects. Right there in Somerset, Franklin Township. Then I– I basically went– went through the, uh, Franklin Township school system. And then part of the time I went to, uh, New Brunswick. Prior to that, New Brunswick and Franklin used to go to school together. I think they– they, because Franklin did not have a– a high school. And, um, they used to go to New Brunswick. Franklin and New Brunswick went to school together. But eventually, uh, Franklin built their own high school and– and middle schools, and most of the people in Somerset went, you know, started goin’ to Somerset. After that, I– I– and then I remember goin’ to, you know, all the grades. Grades that I Went through. In– in school. All the way up to high school. After that, I attended, uh, it was– it was called back then Somerset, “Somerset County College”.
[00:03:01]
And now it’s called “Raritan Valley”. I went there for about a year. After that I– after I got out of there, I, um– I went into the National Guard. From the National Guard, the type of job that I had in the National Guard was, um, it was called the “36 Charlie.” It was, uh, a– I was in the Signal Corp. Signal Corp is– is what– what– what happens is, uh, the communication part of the service. Which, um, uh, they shipped me down to South Carolina, Port Jackson, for basic training. And, um, in– in school. Schooling, I went to Augusta, Georgia. The, um, the name of the– the art– the base was, uh, “Fort Gourd.” Fort Gourd. And that’s where I did was we called “AIT.” That was our– our– our training in our field. Basically, my field was cookin’ up phones and running, um, the communication where, like, if we was at war, we would come in and have communications from the front line to the rear. You know, with the different soldiers. You know, we– we also had it where we had to climb poles with– with different spikes on. So they trained us how to do that, too. After that, I came back to my permanent party. In, uh, in Franklin. You know? In the 50th Armory. And that’s where, uh, eventually I– I did all my time there. And I signed up for six years. I did not complete it. Did not complete it. After while I– I, uh, turned around. I lost interest in it. And I, you know, I didn’t really complete it. But! After that I started openin’ up various different businesses that I was just interested in. You know. I started off where we, um– I was doing mechanic work. I was doing, um, cleaning house work. It was different ones I was trying out to see what would work for me. You know? And, um, after that I, um, I opening up, you know, this is years after I got married. I got married in the ‘80s. And, um, I wind up having four kids. And, um, we moved in a place called Oakley’s. Oakley’s Village. That was in North Brunswick. Meanwhile, the time that me and my wife married, uh, we, you know, we stayed in a one bedroom apartment in, um, in Oakley’s.
[00:06:10]
So I– I went to telling my wife, I said, you know, “After this, I want to, I want to try and buy my own house.” So what we did was, we started savin’ and I started workin’. Heavily. So what I did was I turned around and I worked two jobs. I had, uh, a trucking company that I was hauling steel with a– a, um, a company called “ACD.” They was off of Jersey Avenue. In– In North Brunswick. So I worked for them for several years. I was a, what they call a “Owner Operator.” I had my own truck. And I pulled their trailers. And I pulled, um, steel. Steel rods. And I was pullin’ these rods from out of, um, [sniff] Perth Amboy. And then once in a while I would go to Bethlehem Steel in Pennsylvania. And then periodically, I would have to make delivery after they processed the steel and stretched the steel onto a spool. And then I would take’m all over Pennsylvania, New York and, um, New Jersey. After that, or durin’ that period of time, I also had a regular job working for the Board of Education. I was a custodian at night. That enabled me to save a lot of money and buy my home within five years of after getting married. And then my wife, she worked for the New Jersey Bell. During that time. You know. We had four kids at that time and we was, you know, just strugglin’ and tryin’ to save to get where we are today. So. What happened after that is I went along and– and– and I opened up a auto repair center. I got out of truckin’. And I started doin’ auto repair. You know, on cars, you know, uh, medium duty trucks and stuff like that. ‘Cause durin– in– in high school, you know, I, you know, I took up the trade of auto mechanics. And– and durin’ that period before I even opened up my shop, I took a lotta short courses and– and stuff to– to learn how to get the education to do it. Um, I also became a, um, an inspector. Automobile inspector through the state of New Jersey. Durin’ that course.
[00:09:00]
And durin’ the course and goin’ through it. And, um, up to there, I just worked. And I had a towin’ company at the same time. Here in New Brunswick. Which we have that now. And I also have auto doctors, is still like this now. It’s not doin’ as good as it did back then, but it still. It– it’s going. But, um, other than that. Everything else is good and I’m just maintain’. Now I have four grandkids. All boys. Uh, my son has got two kids. My wife, I mean my– my daughter’s got two kids. My youngest daughter’s got two kids. Uh, and both, all of them are boys. And other than that? I’m just livin’ and trying to survive. [pause] How much more do you want me to go into?
Um, Mark, you can go into as much detail as you’d like. I’ll– I’ll start asking– I– I– I’d love you to continue on your own, but I’m happy to start asking questions [inaudible] [overlapping]
[overlapping] Yeah, yeah I’m pretty good. I’m good at intrigue. I know that a lot, a lot of things you probably gonna have to bring them forth and back and forth because as I– as I can think of things I’ll throw’m back out atcha.
Um, Mark can you tell me a little bit about, um, your childhood, what it was like growing up? Back in the, uh, in the ‘60s and ‘70s in, uh, in Franklin and New Brunswick?
Uh huh. Well, back in the ‘60s I could remember– I could remember the time, you know, that we had– we had the riots back then. We had, um, when Martin Luther King had got killed. And then whe– when the Kennedys got killed. I can remember– I must have been, I had to be at least maybe 10. 10, 11, somewhere like that. And I can remember goin’ to Jersey Avenue, up there on Jersey Avenue by the– by the, um, train station. And they had, this was after– Martin Luther King and he got killed. And they was takin’ his body to D.C. And they did it on a train. And it came through New Brunswick. And I can remember, all of us in our cars, parked in various parkin’ lots that– that adjacent to the track. And lookin’ at it. As a kid I can remember that. And. I really didn’t know the real depth of it. But, it was just strange that, you know, that once in a while, you know, they show footage on– on television and it brings back big memories. And that was the same thing happened with the Kennedys. Same– same scenario, ‘cause they did that when they died– er, when they got killed. They brought them through New Brunswick on a train. And that train was goin’ to D.C. I think it came out of, like, Albany and then it come, you know, ride all the way through each little town. And they had the casket with the stick stuck out the back of the train.
[00:12:18]
You could see it. Many people in cars, they would stand on the sideline of each parkin’ lot lookin’ at it. It was like the last ride for them. I can remember that. I can also remember– Um, movin’. We did a lot of movin’ because my father was not really stable in– in his job and so on. So we would do is my, you know, we would move a lot. I can remember movin’ into Newark, New Jersey. I can remember, um– How, even tryin’ to go to school. I was– I was bullied. You know, with the– with the people who lived around there. And you literally had to fight to go to school! ‘Cause I was the new kid on the block– me and my brothers. Uh, I have, I had– I had two other brothers. And I was the middle child. But, my youngest brother, his name was Keith. My other brother’s name was Willie, and he was named after our father. And I was in between them. So I was sandwiched in between them. But, um– I can remember us as– after we– after we did get established and– and after we started getting older, I can remember movin’ in Franklin and my father purchasin’ a house. ‘Cause he got stabled. And, uh, that’s what we did. We– we, you know, we had our home. Even though we came out of the Projects, we was still able to purchase a home where we could stay. And we stayed there for many years. Until, I would say, ‘bout time I got into 7th, 8th grade, 9th grade. Then we wind up movin’ from there. Ya know? Then ‘bout time I got out of high school, that’s when I started, you know, I went into the service and I started takin’ care of my own self. But, um, it brings– it brings back a lot of memories. On how I came up and– and basically even though I had downfalls within the family and all’a that, I didn’t do too bad. I really didn’t do too bad. You know? My father, he was, you know, he was one of those fathers that was sometime missin’ in action. But one thing I can say, he taught me how to survive. You know? And not only by his actions, but by his just teaching, You know. Hey. He used to tell me sometimes, he said “Whatever you do, you– you have to have more than one iron in the fire.”
[00:15:10]
And– and I used to question him sometimes, ”What do you mean by that?” And he’d tell me, he’d say “If you got more than one iron in the fire, if one iron gets cold, you can pull out one hot one and put that cold one in to warm.” And I carry that to this day. With my own kids and with anybody that I can share with. I tell them that! Because it’s the truth. If you– if you can do more than one thing, if that one thing fails you, you always can, uh, revert back to another thing! So, it’s one of those things that most people don’t– don’t even think about. But I do, and I try to share with everybody that I can, ‘cause it works. You know? I had, you know, with my– with my auto repair center. It started to get kind of dead and, you know, because of this, um. Um, COVID. So,I had to turn around and I had to take on another job. And I sat back and I said “What will I do?” So what I did was, years ago I got my CDL license. And I always kept it. So I reverted back to that, and I started drivin’ trucks! But I couldn’t do that if I didn’t have that under my belt. ‘Cause I had the license. So I could activate it and use the license for what it was. And, you know, to this day. I do that. You know? And– and it– and it pays the bills! So it’s one of those things where you have to– you have to have more than one iron in the fire. To– to survive. And you gotta be versatile because if one thing fails you, then you pick up another thing to keep on goin’. You know? Uh, as it is right now, I’ll be– I’ll be turnin’ this year– this year I’ll be turnin’ 62. I’ll be almost time for me to just collect my social security. And don’t do but very little and live life. So that’s what I intend to do. Just to sit back and don’t run real hard like I used to. And just survive. You know, it takes time to do it, but hey! You have to plan to get that done. [pause] Alright? What else you wanna know?
Um, Mark, you said your father was sometimes missing in action. You wanna elaborate on what that means?
[00:17:55]
Yeah! Well, my father– my father he was– he was on drugs at one time. He was on drugs and what would happen is he would turn around and he would, um. He would be, you know, how such as when people on drugs, that’s– that’s their main menu. To be on drugs. You know, they really– they really can’t help themselves. So what they do is they just– they think about just themselves, not their family. You know? And from what I can see, when people is on drugs, they’re in– their minds is set on tryin’ to get drugs and not tryin’ take care what they supposed to take care. I think that back then, he loved us dearly. But he had that dependence and it was all about him and gettin’ what he wanted to get. But, like I said, when– when I was talkin’ before is that he taught me what to do and what not to do by his actions. And not only by his actions, but by the way he lived. It taught me to know, don’t miss– don’t be missin’ in action for your kids. Don’t be missin’ in action for your family. Provide for your family the best way you can. Be there for them. Teach them. Show them. Love them. By his actions, they– they taught me to be, in, the person that I am today. That’s why I can’t really– I don’t feel bad or I don’t feel, um, let’s say anger that– that– that he did us that way. Because I knew that it was a dependency. But I look at is as a steppin’ stone to me not to be that type of way. And, you know, all these 61 years and long as I been with my family, I make sure family comes first. And deal with family problems first. Provide for family first. Make sure things in order first. And stay on top of them, to make sure that it all works out good. Is it easy? No, it’s not easy! But, hey, it’s durable. You know? It is– it– I try to be the best father as possible to my kids and my grandkid. And, like, I told em, ‘til the day that I die, that’s what I’m gonna do. Because I’ve seen what it is like when you don’t have a father figure there all the time. You know, I seen the days where, durin’ that period of time, we didn’t– we didn’t have stuff to eat. Me and my brothers, we used to turn around and we used to– to get– they used to give us a apples. We’d take a apple, cut it in half, put a fork in it, and put if over the stove to cook it. And then eat it.
[00:21:00]
I seen days where we didn’t have– we didn’t have bread. Or we had bread, we had peanut butter. We didn’t have jelly. We had jelly and peanut butter sometimes. Sometimes we didn’t have that. I can remember makin’ mayonnaise sandwiches. I can remember syrup sandwiches’n havin’ to eat them ‘cause that’s all we had. I can remember not havin’ the heat in our house. Lights cut off. You know? I can remember all that. I can remember not havin’ milk in the ‘frigerator– or nothin’ in the refrigerator! You know? I can remember all of that stuff. That’s one of the reasons why I would never ever let my kids or my grandkids go through that. I’ll tell’m about it! I’ll tell’m that it was real. But, it ain’t gonna persist in my house. Because I didn’t like it back then, and I don’t like it now. So therefore I’m– I’m– I’m– I’m a person that will fight hard not to run into that ever anymore. Because it’s not a good feelin’. You know? No money. No way to figure it out. No food. Cold. You know? Not havin’ somethin’. It’s not a good feelin’. It’s not a good feelin’ for anybody. You know? So I– I– I try to work hard. I try to plan ahead so you don’t– so I don’t fall into that type of, uh, situation. And, um, I just go on. And so far, if I had to, um, judge it or– or rate it? From one to ten? I’m a ten. And I’m gonna stay a ten, long as I can. Because I’m not gonna ever wanna go back to that. You know? And I’m quite sure plenty people out there that’s in that situation. You know? And it’s, um, it’s– it’s– it’s not a pleasant feeling. It’s– it’s– it’s one of those down and dark times. And, um, no need for anyone to have to go through that. You know? So. It ain’t much more I can say about it, but I know one thing; It’s ugly, and it’s not good for anyone. [pause]
Have you, uh, has anyone else in your family, uh– uh, [inaudible] themselves, been addicted to drugs?
In– in subject to drugs? I would say– I would say many people! Many people! I was– I was– I was on drugs before– maybe not harsh drugs, but yeah, I went through the phase of drugs! You know, drink’, smokin’, you know. Cokin’. Uh. You know. What else? At one time, uh, just– just being curious about different things. But not to the depth that it just beat me down, where I had to go through a program or anything like that.
[00:24:21]
You know, I just thank God that I was– He was there to rescue me from that, you know? You know, I would say the majority of my family– I’m talkin’ about my older family, I believe all of them went through them phases. You know? And, um, I look at it that I’m not proud of it, but I’m proud that the good Lord helped me to even overcome that. Because it– it, you know, I done seen drugs tear people’s, um, relationships and families apart. I done seen all of that. Friends of mine that just, you know, work every day and broke. ‘Cause the only thing that they doin’ is– is aiding a habit. And it goes on and on and on. I believe everybody’s family go through it. You know? And not only that, they go, you know, they go through that pain and that dark, um. Uh. Time of life. But. You know. I’m a firm believer, if you got the good Lord on your side and you trust him. He’ll bring you out. But you have to trust him to bring you out. You can’t lean on your own strength. Because your own strength is not strong enough. So I really believe, um, that that’s the only way. To beat drugs and to beat that situation. You gotta have a higher power be able to fight up against that. Because it’s, you know, it’s a monster! It– it really is! And when I look at is, I look at it that [clears throat] not only hard drugs, but any drugs. Anything that’s gonna alter your, uh, your– your train of thought. Or your mood. Is a drug far as I’m concerned. And you don’t have to– you don’t have to have that. But. You can get hooked on it, and you can be thinking that you have to have it. And that’s when it becomes a nuisance. Because now, I’m thinkin’ that “I gotta have that maintained.” Which, you really don’t. But you gotta figure out how to get away from it, because it takes hold to you, and it grips you. You know, it’s like the guy that– that, um, that drinks every day. And if he don’t drink, he feels bad.
[00:27:02]
Or he starts throwin’ up and he gets sick. You know? That’s– that’s the type of stuff that’s really no good for anyone. You should never have to take something to feel good. You know? And, you know, to this day. I learned years back that it’s all in the ask. You ask the man above to give you joy and peace, and you believe it and you walk with it, and you’ll be okay. And it don’t cost you nothin’ but the asking of it. And once you believe, and once you take on, then it be so. But most people think that you gotta get it out of a bottle, or you gotta get it out of a smoke or a snort or a, or any type of drug like that to alter your, uh, your train of thought. To feel good. You know? You got– I would say you got at least 95% of the people, the only way they can maintain is by takin’ something to alter their– their being to feel good. I think that’s the– the myth of all of that. I think it’s a myth, and what happens, it becomes a habit. Because they do it so much, to the point where they think that that’s part of life. I think that’s the worst myth that most people fall into. [pause]
Do you happen to recall, um. Wha– uh. Your first time or why you started in the– why you started in the first place?
Well, I think what happened was, goin’ through school, you know, I started off drinking. Then from drinking, you smoke pot. Then– then I think it was more peer pressure. To want to set in. And to be a part of. You know, because when I went through high school, people was on– on reaper and they was on marijuana and they was– and they was, you know, they was doin’, uh. What’s it– the speed and they was doin’ the, you know, a lot of acid and all of that. This was just as, it was a fad! You know, they was drinkin’ their beer and their liquor. At one time I could remember where they was– they was– they had a– they had a thing where they called a corona. And you would take a rag. This was– this was a little before my time, before I went to high school. And it was my older brother and them. They used to take a rag and they would put corona on it. corona is like a– like a shoe remover. Like remover of paint? And they would put it in a rag and then they would– they would just sniff that stuff and it would make’m crazy.
[00:30:09]
And it was– it was– it was like a epidemic around my neighborhood! And these guys would set on the corner or sit down on the corner and you see’m. They– they would cuff their– their hands together. And they had this rag with this corona in it. And they would sniff that and it would go right straight to their brain and make’m act crazy. You know? And they just– and a lot of those guys passed away from that because they burnt their– their– their brain cells out! You know. But that was a fad and it was the– it was– it was stupid! That’s what you call stupid! And what they did was they just kept on doin’ it. Lot of’m died, lot of’m went crazy. And, uh, they just went on! And then after while, I think what happened was the government stepped in and got that stuff off the shelf. And then it– then it– then it stopped! But then, the other drugs came in. The heroin came in. It– cocaine came in. You know, stuff like that. But, um, and to this day, all that stuff is still in exist! I don’t think that the corona is still in exist, but I think that, I know that the cocaine is still in exist. I know that the drinkin’ is still in exist. The marijuana is still in exist. All of stuff is in the exist. But, um, what you gonna do? People look for a– a mandate to deal with life. They’re not tryin’ to do it naturally. And– and I think– I think over the years after– after even me doin’– I didn’t do hard drugs, but I did, you know, I did scratch the surface. And I– when I realized that it wasn’t for me, I left it alone and I asked– I asked for help from the higher power. Jesus Christ. To help me. To get off of that. Because I knew that that was not the right way to go. And, until I asked for help and believed it, that’s when I got help. Other than that? I would’a been on it to this day. But, thank God, it did not happen. You know? So now I go on, I try to tell my kids to watch out for that stuff. I try to tell other people to watch out for that stuff. But they have to learn it for themself anyway. You know? I was the type of child– I was the type of person like I told you at the beginnin’, I was the middle child. I was one that I had a older brother, and I had a younger brother. I was the type of child that you didn’t have to– you didn’t have to tell me. I just had to look and look at what a– what it was doin’ to you. Or, what it was doin’ to your family, or– Whatever!
[00:33:06]
See, I don’t have to go into something to learn some. I can learn by somebody else’s mistake. I’m not gonna touch somethin’ that burns me if it burnt them. I’m not gonna touch it! Because I know that if I touch it, it’s gonna burn me. I’m human just like them. So I– I’m kinda learnt easier than the average. I learn by seein’. I learn by observin’. And to this day, I do the same thing. I learn by seein’ and observin’. And it enabled me to be able to maneuver through life because of that. And I try to– I try to give that to whoever will listen and whoever will, uh, absorb what I’m trying to say. For themself. You know. Because, it ain’t– it ain’t where you have to do something. You got choice within yourself. They call it free will. To do what you want to do, whenever you want to do it. Whether it’s wrong or whether it’s right. You have the choice. You, your own man, or– or woman. And by what you do, and what you say, and whatever path that you go down, you have to give account of it. Here on Earth, and when you leave, you– you have to give account for it. How you handled it. You know, your walk through this. So I’m a firm believer that if you have God to, um, to guide you? You won’t go wrong. But you try to guide yourself and you don’t know where you goin’ or whatchu doin’? But if you take him on first, that he takes you through, nine times out of ten you won’t make a mistake. [pause]
Um, Mark, were you always religious? Or did, was that something you discovered, um, on your own journey–
No! No, no, I– I– I come up– I came up in a religious family. The same father that was on drugs, he was a preacher. He was a preacher. He wasn’t a preacher while he was on drugs, but he was a preacher when he got out– off of drugs. [pause] And then– He taught us. I went to church. I, you know, I– I dealt with learnin’, um. Uh. Where our higher power is. Even though I swayed away from it, came back to it and did all’a that. It was already embedded in me as a child. You know? And–
[00:36:05]
It’s there. It’s the truth. I know what the truth is because I lived it. I know what it’s all about because– You know, I was taught. You know? So. I relied back– that’s my road map through this, through this journey that all of us is goin’ through. If I don’t– if I don’t use that, I have nothin’ else. I don’t try to rely on my own judgement. I try to ask the Lord to give me guidance so I can go through this. And basically that’s– that’s– that’s what I try to tell everybody or try to insinuate to everybody. That’s the key to goin’ through life. You know. You have to– you have to tap into what they call a higher power. And that higher power will guide you through the life that we goin’ through. You know? Nobody said it was gonna be easy. And nobody said that it– that it has to be hard. You know. But you have to, you know, you have to build that relationship up with the– with the man above. And He’ll take you through. You know? But, you know, like I said, I–[clears throat] I was tellin’ you before, I can remember during the ‘60s, when we used to have to go to church in Newark. And the National Guards was there. And they was on every corner. And the reason why they was there– they was there because the looting. The– the destruction that went on. The fires. The shooting of guns and– and– because the people of America was mad because Martin Luther King had got killed. That was basically like their savior. And he had got shot and got killed! So most of these big towns and these big cities was on what they call a “uproar.” And it was a lot of looting, a lot of busting windows and fires and– because they was mad at the government. They was literally mad at the government. And they was just goin’ nuts. But at the time, I was a kid, I didn’t even realize what was goin’ on. I just knew that I saw army men, and, you know– you know, you hear different things, but as a kid you, you know, really don’t– don’t sink in until after the fact. You know, to this day, I realize what was goin’ on because I lived it. You know, I can flashback and I can remember [clears throat] the Jeeps and tanks and the carriers and the guys with the guns and. All of that. I can remember that. You know? But.
[00:39:00]
This is– that’s part of life! You know? It’s– it’s– it’s one of those things where I’m just glad that even though I went through it– it wasn’t as devastating that it could have been. And I’m still here to tell about it. I’m still here to share it to– with my kids and my grandkids. I’m here to tell them, “Hey! Your grandfather, your father lived through this! This is real!” You know? When things come on television, and they look at it and they say, “Dad, it was really bad there!” I can sit back and I can say, “I walked those streets. That same street that you see there with them people there, I was– I was a kid at that time, there!” I can remember you couldn’t even drive in to– to Newark. You had to go in on the train to get there. Then from there, we had to get out at the train station and walk up to the church that we went’a. The– the– the church was 505 Central Avenue. To this day, that church is still there I believe. I– I haven’t been in Newark for a long time, but I know that, that it– that the last time that I went, it must’a been a couple’a years ago, that the church was still there. 505 Central Ave. And that’s been, let’s see– now, figure that’s been over 40 years! Actually, more than that! Maybe over 50 years! You know? It’s just– it’s just something when you think about it, how these years fly. And, you know, I sit back and I think about, when I was a kid, and when I had my grandmother around, my grandfather around. Now I’m a grandfather. You know? And it’s– it’s scary because it seems like it was yesterday. It don’t seem like it was sixty years ago or fifty years ago. Seems like it was yesterday. But these are the things that we– we kinda take for granted. Because [clears throat] we don’t look at it, you know? We on this– we on this timeline where we get up, we go to work. We come back from work. We, um, we pay our bills, we go shoppin’, we make sure we got money to pay for things. We deal with our family’s problems. And we go on! In this– in this vicious cycle that we just do that? Until we become old. Then after that? We prepare to leave from here! And pass the torch to the next. And this cycle goes on and on and on.
[00:42:00]
The little kids, my little grandson, that’s– that’s three months old? He’ll be, in twenty years, he’ll be 20 years old. Twenty years old and three months. I’ll be 62. Right? I won’t be 62, I’ll be 82. Eighty-two and three months. I’ll be a old man! Ready to– get ready to prepare to leave. He’ll be a young man, take on the task, just like I had to take them. It’s, you know, it’s– it’s funny when you look at it like that. That ain’t even far away! Twenty years is nothin’! We can– we can blow by twenty years so fast, [inaudible]. I done done it several times! You know? And then when I look at my other grandson, he’s 11. He’ll be in his thirties. And I’ll be a old man. I can remember goin’ to my prom, and my– and my father-in-law. My father-in-law, this was back in– in– in 1979. My father-in-law was– forty-somethin’ years old. The man was, you know. He had black hair. You know. Young! To this day, he’s almo– he’s almost 90! Almost 90. We looked at some pictures of me and– me and his daughter gettin’ in the car to go to the prom. And I looked at him, and he was holdin’ a camera. And I asked him a couple’a months back, I said, “Dad,” I said “Dad, how old was you back then?” He said, “I was about forty-somethin’.” And I thought about it and I said, “Wow! Time is very short.” There is– there– he got great-great-grandkids! You know? And he’s– and he’s, you know, almost ninety-somethin’. You know? That was, that was forty-somethin’ years ago. It’s just– it’s just crazy, you know. When you look at things like that. It tends to make you look at life a little differently. You know, you don’t take life for granted. And you try to live, you know. The sayin’ is, you try to live life like it’s a no tomorrow. This way, you don’t get cheated out of it. You just keep on goin’. Try to stay happy every day. The– the, you know, the things when you was a kid that was big, they’re not big anymore. They’re just, “Hey! It’s okay!” You know? We only here for, how they say, ”We’re only here for a season.”
[00:45:00]
Therefore, we just live the season. And then after that, we go. And then the– and then the next blood takes over and they go on and on. It’s just the way it works! [cough] What else you wanna know?
Um, Mark, you’ve mentioned that you obs– that you were a middle child and you learn from observing others– the mistakes of others. Were you referencing something about your siblings in that moment?
Well, my– well, my other brother, he was on drugs. And he always told me– he always told me as a brother! He always told me, “I’m on drugs. You don’t go on drugs. ‘Cause it’s no good.” He was caught on drugs. And I can remember my brother tellin’ me, and– and sayin’, “Yeah, you know, I’m on these drugs but you don’t– you don’t do like me.” He used to– he used to constantly tell me that. You know. “No no no! You don’t, you don’t do like that!” Even though he was caught up in it! He– he made sure that I would not get caught up in it. At least not in a harsh stuff. You know? He– he really stayed on me. That’s why I said, even in the conversation, is that I had friends that was his friends. They would say the same thing. You know? I think they looked at me as, “You got a chance! You got a chance to make it, man.” You know? “So therefore, we gonna try to protect you. Even though we caught up! We gonna try to in– inform you and not get– get– let you get all caught up like we did.” You know, my brother used to tell me, he used to say, I can remember– I had two brothers and we used to go out and we used to shovel snow, we used to rake yards. You know we, we really– my father taught us how to go out and make money. So. What my brothers used to do– I was the guy that was the middle child. What I used to do is I would go and I would get the– I would go and knock and literally knock, and knock on people’s doors. “Do you wanna get your– your– your, um, your driveway and your walkway shoveled?” And I would be the salesperson. They would be the workers. And they– and they liked it that! Because they– they looked at me as bein’ the right person to go and get the jobs! They knew that, long as I got the jobs, they would do it. And I would do it– I would help’m out, too. Once I got the jobs lined up. But! They used to always tell me, they’d say “Listen. Just go get the jobs. We’ll do the jobs. Just, you set up all the jobs and we’ll do the jobs. Right?” It’s just the only stipulation we had? “At that at the end of the day, we want our money. You can get checks, you can get whatever you want! It doesn’t matter. We wanna be paid at the end of the day.” And I knew that! I knew that.
[00:48:20]
I knew it just as plain as day. And I honored that all the time! ‘Cause I knew that if I got the job, I didnt’ have to worry about the job bein’ done. ‘Cause they was that type of– they had that much responsibility. So, but the deal was, is, after the job or after the day was over? We wanted to be paid. And I think that had a lot to do with, they knew, uh, or I knew that if they got paid, they gonna go and they gon’ get their drugs, and that’s gonna be it. So the ultimate for them was to get the drugs! The ultimate was, that they had to work that day, or durin’ that time, to get the money. But, they assured me that they didn’t want to have a hassle of not gettin’ their money after the fact of the work! You know? And– and I had to live up to that because that was my job! My job was to get the work. Price the job. And then turn around, get the job done, and then make sure they got paid! And I did that. And the middle– as the middle brother, I did that. I could remember– From day to day, I would, um, you know, we would have jobs, like, they may work one day, and then the next day we work too. And I remember, every– at the end of the day, they would get paid. And I could remember the next morning? I would go to somewhere like McDonalds to eat breakfast. And we all pull up in the car. I’d be drivin’. And we pull up in the car. And I’ll get out to go and get some breakfast. I can remember them not gettin’ out. They would just stay in. After workin’ the next day. Or the day before. They would just stay in there! So I would look at them and I would say, “Hey! Y’all should get something to eat! It’s mornin’ time!” They said, “No. We’re not hungry.” I said, “What do you mean you’re not hungry? It’s mornin’ time!” You know. People eat breakfast in the mornin’ time! They said, “Nah, nah, nah, we don’t want,” you know, “We don’t want nothin’.” So then I started thinkin’, I said, “I wonder why they actin’ that way?” They was actin’ that way ‘cause they didn’t have no money. They spent all their money. That day that they got paid, that night, they partied and did what they had to do with their money. And then they was broke! So the mornin’ that I picked’m up to go to work again, they was counting on that day’s work! So what I would do is I would go, like, to McDonalds and then when I figured out that they didn’t have money, I would say, “Hey, listen. I’ll pay for it.”
[00:51:19]
Then they would get out the car and come with me. And then I would have to pay for it. For them. Because they didn’t have no money! They had spent it on drugs. And this didn’t happen once or twice, you know. It happened several times. But that– that taught me to never ever be like that. That taught me, and my– and my older brother told me one day. He said, “Markie,” he said, “I live for the day and I live for tomorrow.” So what I got out of that was, every day he gonna live for just that day. He’s not gonna turn around and save a penny. He’s not gonna turn around and worry about tomorrow until tomorrow comes. Though, in my case, I said, “I’m not gonna be like that! I can’t be like that. I gotta at least save and plan. I can’t be like that!” And I never was. Where, that’s how he was. And that’s how my other brother was. And– and life. That’s how they lived life. Both of’m lived short lives. My older brother lived a shorter life than– than– Even then, to this day, I think about it. My brother didn’t even make 30. You know? The one, the older one. The other one. He– he made 50. But both of’m is gone now, and rest their soul. But. That’s the life they chose! I’m still here– You know, I get to see my grandkids, my kids. You know? Where, with them? They don’t. Because the way they lived. I miss’m dearly! Believe me, I do. I miss’m dearly. But that’s the life that they chose. And it was a short life. You know? Even though life itself is not really long. But. They shorten it up drastically. By the way they lived. The one brother, the older brother, he died of a aneurysm. Fell out, and there was a vessel that busted in his head. So he died from that. And the other one died from a chokin’ accident.
[00:54:00]
He ate a, um– A– a eggroll, from a– from a Chinese restaurant. And he got choked on it and his girlfriend did not know how to do the Heimlich Maneuver. ‘Bout the time the ambulance got to him, it starved air to his brain. So he faded into a coma for about maybe two years. And eventually he died. But! That’s what I had to live with! So now I have two sisters left– three sisters left now. ‘Cause my father had– my father had another set’a kids, that it was, um, two boys and a girl. My initial family, we had the four kids– or the five kids. But. [pause] You know. My younger brothers, my younger– I would– I would label them as my younger half brothers. They’re, um, they’re doin’ pretty good. My– my initial family from my– my mother and my father. I got two sisters, two younger sisters. I’m the– I’m the oldest now. And they done pretty decent, you know. They got their family, they got their grandkids and stuff like that, but they just tryin’ to maintain. And that’s it. So now I’m a senior– senior– senior brother. I’m the oldest. [pause] But. That’s life! Where you want to go now with it? [pause]
Um, Mark, you spoke briefly about, um, the impact of the riots on Newark. Can you– can you talk a little bit about what the temperature was like in Franklin and New Brunswick?
Temperature back then was summer– like, summer. It was–
Uh, sorry. [chuckles] I meant, uh. I meant um– um, uh. The emote– the emotion. The emotional temperature.
Well–
In the community.
It was– it was– The tension was high. It wasn’t high within my family, it was just the anger that people had, you know, that Martin Luther King had got killed. And the far as, the people within our, within our little village and stuff like that? They was– it was– you know that– that it was riotin’ all over the, um, the country. You know, the big cities, it was rioted. I can remember goin’ to school and we was riotin’ in the school! And it was– and it was black and white havin’ a riot! I can remember, my brother was in high school at the time, and I can remember goin’ up to the high school and they had the state troopers on top of the high school to protect the high school!
[00:57:04]
And they had to stop the whites and the blacks from fightin’ each other. I can remember that. I can remember now, ‘cause I was in probably about 5th or 6th grade at the time. And, um, I can remember havin’ riots right in our school against black and white. You know? Until it cooled out. But it persisted for a while. They had to separate the blacks and the whites from each other. I could remember at– at one given time, we when– I think it was when Kennedy– Kennedy died. Um, I was goin’ to Richard. I had moved, and I moved into New Brunswick. So when I moved into New Brunswick, I had to come out of Franklin School System and had to go to New Brunswick system. And I went to Richard on, um, on Livingston Avenue. And the tension was even there! See, a lot of people don’t realize, back then, they only had New Brunswick. They didn’t have East Brunswick, they didn’t have North Brunswick, they didn’t have South Brunswick. So a lot of people don’t– didn’t know that. It was an– it was– it was only New Brunswick. One place. Not south, not east, not north. None of those. It was only New Brunswick. That, durin’ that period of time, it broke up. It broke up! They developed the North Brunswick, they developed the East Brunswick, they developed the South Brunswick. That’s how that came about. That was way back in the ‘60s. You know? And tension wise, it was– it was– it w– it w– it was that intense! To the point that in New Brunswick, you didn’t have white people goin’ to New Brunswick! You had Spanish and you had blacks. North Brunswick and South Brunswick opened up those schools, and mostly whites went to those schools. In East Brunswick, same thing. That’s how they came about makin’ those different towns change up. That was back in the ‘60s. See, most people go– uh, I would say younger people don’t realize that, but I remember when it was like that. And– and I remember, it was only a one– it was New Brunswick. It was no South Brunswick, no North Brunswick, no East Brunswick. None’a that. That changed durin’ the riot times. [pause] [scuffling] Yep. Any other questions?
[01:00:05]
Yeah, um, Mark. Do– is there anything– are there anecdotes or anything you remember from– From your time with, uh, [inaudible] if I say the, uh, name wrong, with Charlie 36– uh, 36 Charlie.
[overlapping] [inaudible]
That you’d like to share.
Is it what now?
Uh, any anecdotes or any memories from 36 Charlie. That you’d like to share.
36 Charlie, you talkin’ about when I was in the service?
Yep.
Well, when I was in the service, I went in the service after high school. After high school, I went into service. When I went into the service, like I said, I– I– I did, um, my, um, basic trainin’ was in South Carolina. Fort Jackson. It was very hot. It was so hot that people was fallin’ out. That’s how hot it was. You know. You talkin’ 90, 100, 100 and somethin’. You know. Every day. And we had to train. Um. And I can remember arrivin’ at Fort Jackson. And. I didn’t know what to expect, but I– I knew I had to go to the service. And the reason why I said that– I wanted to go to the service because all old timers, grandfather, and most people, they went, they went into the service. And they always had a story. And I said, you know what? I wanted to experience that. So I joined the National Guards! And they shipped me out. First thing I did was went to Newark. From there, they swore you in. After that, they gave you your, you know, they gave you your orders. When you got your orders, I um, I boarded a plane. Plane shipped me down, down south. When I was walkin’ to the airport and even goin’ to the barracks and all’a that? It was people comin’ from all over the world! And all over the state. Goin’ in the same direction I was. It was strange because you said, “Wow! This is somethin’!” And we all landed right there in Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Fort Jackson. And– We got there, we got into the receptioning area. And they walkin’ up, walkin’ us– us in. They wouldn’t let us do nothin’ but eat! For days, we ate and– and sat around. We didn’t do nothin’. I can remember where, after a few days, that drill sergeant came down.
[01:02:58]
He was in a– he– he was in like, we call it a Smokey Garrison. Had a little brown hat, a round hat. He had this real, real tucked in and– you could tell that the guy was in great shape. Came down to get us. It was like, uh, trailers! It was like a big trailer– tractor trailer. All of us had to get in there like cattle. So we got in there, they got us in there. And they took us to our barracks where we was gon’ be trainin’. First thing they taught us? They taught us how to do squats, they taught us how to do push-ups. From there on, they– that’s when trainin’ started. If you messed up, they would make you do push-ups. If you made a mistake, you would do push-ups. A lot of marchin’, lotta drillin’. A lotta goin’ out into, um, they call it Bidwack. So. We did that, I think for like six weeks. You know? Then after that, we did our trainin’. Then from there– then from there– that was– basic trainin’ is basically [clears throat] all physical trainin’. You know, just like if you was in– in a war. You know, they would take you through all’a that. After you complete that, then you go to what they call AIT. You graduate from basic trainin’. They give you your orders to go to AIT. You board another, um– Plane? They take you– they took me to Georgia from there. Then you stayed– stayed there for so many weeks, and then after that you come back to what they call “permanent party.” My permanent party was the 50th here in Franklin Township. And– and that’s where I– I– I ended up at. But other than that, it was an experience. And I think that’s why I even chose to join! I joined to just– to get the experience and say, “Hey, I did that before.” If I had to do it again, I think I would’a just went into regular army, because there was more benefits in regular army than just National Guards. So, you know, I learnt– I learnt that. Hey, I think it taught me to be the type of person I am today. Because the trainin’ that you get is so consistent and so, so highly needed. Um, I think that every kid that get outta high school or– or– or whatever, they should do at least two years in the service. You know, uh, in Israel, that’s a requirement.
[01:06:02]
I don’t see why America don’t have it like that. It should be like that. Because I believe we would have a whole better society. If they went through that and had to go through it. I’m talkin’ bout man and woman. You know, because it teaches you how to take care of yourself. It teaches you to respect others. It teaches you all’a that. You know, in this day, mosta the kids that come outta high school, they don’t know nothin’! And then what happens, they go out and they get locked up. They disrespect people. They do all’a that. That’s all because these kids haven’t been trained. And I think that, uh, it’s best if they, if they had it set up where it was mandatory that everybody served in the service at least two years, I think we would have a better America. Yup! What else you want to know?
Um. So, you– are you and your brothers, um, were– were all three of you pretty much going, uh, starting your own businesses or your own jobs around the same time and I– I’m curious just–
[overlapping, inaudible]
about how the three of you leaned on each other, worked together, things like that.
Well, all– all’a jobs and stuff– my father was a entrepreneur. He was one of– a guy that could go out and basically get any job he wanted [scuffling]. He could get– he was that type of person. But, even analyzin’ my father, he was a– he was a– he was a good business person, but he had his faults was that he did not do things and stay with it for very long. He would– he would– he would, I would call it, he would run outta gas. He would– he would, you know, his, um. His thought pattern and all, stayin’ at it and workin’ in, for lifetime– even if it was makin’ money and it wasn’t makin’ money. He didn’t care! He would lose interest in it. You know? [sniff] And I watched’m! I watched’m several type jobs, I watched him get jobs, I watched him make plenty’a money. But I also watched him, where he would fade out and just don’t wanna do it no more. He just would never just do it no more. He’d just say something like, “Well I’m not doin’ that no more, I’m doin’ this over here.” He could’a been makin’ money. [sniff] [cough] But to him, he lost interest! So what happened was, lookin’ at how he handled things, I always said, “I’m not gonna do that. If I’m gonna get to somethin’, I’m gonna get into it and I’m gonna do it to the best of my ability, and I’m gonna try to stick with it.”
[01:09:09]
So. That’s why I say, with him, I learnt, is– by him, by his actions. And, in a way he handled things. You know? My father started– my father and my grandfather started a company back in the ‘70s, I think it was. And it was called “Cycle Saminizer.” It was a hand wash, um, carwash. It was on Safford Street in New Brunswick. My father had the, [cough], had the vision to start it. My grandfather, they partnered up in it. And they had a business cleaning cars. And they did it for several years! Then, after while, my father ran out of gas, and he told my grandfather that, you know, he didn’t wanna do it no more. So he sold his part to my grandfather. He just stopped doin’ it. My grandfather took it and continued to do it. Until the day he died. What he did was he took it, and it was on Safford Street. He moved it from Safford Street to Oak Place in Somerset. He build– he built a garage out there to do that type of business, and he also built– built a new house there. Two family house. Next to the business. By doin’ that business. Then he– then he turned around and he just ran that business until the day he died. He died about, maybe ten years ago. Actually, I think it was more than that, maybe fifteen years ago. And, uh, to this day, I don’t know– nobody in my family is involved in the carwash anymore. I think– I think my grandfather sold it out. No, my uncle sold it out after my grandfather had died. But, um, we always– we always, in our family, we always had entrepreneurs. You know, we always had business-thinkin’ people. You know. Some was better than others and then some wasn’t, you know? But, you know, all that said, it’s, you know, it worked out all right. I learnt a lot as a kid and I use it today. [long pause] Yup. I guess that’s about it!
[01:12:00]
How would you, um, describe– Uh, New Brunswick as a community in support of you and your business as of today, um, a warm place? From previous conversations, described, um, an element of racism that you’ve encountered, in your– in your– through your work. You talk a little bit about the community as a businessman? Yeah! Well. I look at New Brunswick– see, I came from Franklin. That’s where I originated from. And my business originated, and the garage, half of the garage that my grandfather made in Franklin. I stayed there for five years. From there, the community around me in Franklin, they knew me. And I was establishin’ my business there. And I did. I did it for five years. Then eventually I left there and I went into New Brunswick. The difference between New Brunswick and Franklin was like night and day. Because, when I went to New Brunswick, I dealt with a lot of Spanish. I dealt with a lotta whites. I dealt with all kinda people. In Franklin, I mainly dealt with the people in the neighborhood. And they was mostly you know, uh, um– Black folks. So when I went to New Brunswick, it was a little different, because I had a versatile. And my– my location was close to the– the hospital. Robert Wood Johnson. And I had more business, and a versatile business there. And it was– it was– it’s better than Franklin. Because it’s more condensed, too. So I would say, when I came to that neighborhood, it was– it was– it was drug infested and bums runnin’ around and– and, you know. Houses was abandoned, some of ‘em. Boarded up. Stuff like that. But over the years that I was there, it started to build up. Started to build up and– and it, um, eventually it built up and– and New Brunswick became a really nice place to live. Housing went up. Um. People was buyin’, people was catering to all the businesses. The city was a lot better. And, um, you know. It– it developed, it developed rapidly. Actually, it developed faster than I thought it would. You know? And then we, then we turned around. And I went there– oh yeah! I ran into a little racist from the police department in New Brunswick. You know, they had certain people that didn’t like me bein’ in the area that I’m in.
[01:15:12]
But eventually they, um– You know, they became, you know, the bad apples left. And other people, uh, replaced’m. And everything worked out good! You know? So, you know, to this day it’s okay. I’m, you know, I’m– I’m– I’m real familiar with the area. People are familiar with me and it’s– it’s okay now! Before, it was rough. You know, it was a little rough because it was the– you gotta– you gotta black man moving into a– a Hungarian area. What type of person would that person be? They didn’t know! They didn’t know how I would fit there. What they did realize was I was no threat to that area, then it was okay! And so to this day, I’m there. And I’m okay with it. And– and lookin’ at it now, it’s mostly Spanish in the area opposed to Hungarians now. You know, you don’t have many black-owned businesses there. I don’t know how many is there but, uh, [cough] you can probably count’m on one hand if it’s that many. But, you know, I’m one of ‘m. And, you know, that’s good. I’m just settin’ back, coolin’ out. [pause] [scuffling] Alright? [pause]
Are there, uh, are there any specific incidences, or, uh, incidents that you might [overlapping, inaudible]
want to share that happened to you?
The only incidents that I– there’s plenty of incidents, you know what I mean? But [audio cuts out] the only incident I can think of right now. [clears throat] Only incidents that I can really c– collaborate on, the, you know. When I first got there, I had this one girl, she came in my shop. She was on drugs and I really didn’t know. She– she turned around, she wanted to use my bathroom. So I gave her, I said, “Okay, go ahead, you can use the bathroom.” She was one of them girls off the street there. But she was like, you know, she came out front and I’m standin’ out there, and she’s actin’ like she really gotta go to the bathroom. ”I gotta go to the bathroom, I gotta go to the bathroom.” So I said, “Okay, you can use my bathroom.” So she goes in there, she stays in there for half an hour. And I’m like, “Hey! What’s goin’ on in there?” And I turns around, and eventually she comes out. And she’s– she’s rubbin’ her nose and actin’ like she’s just real fast and– and– and– and actin’ like she’s on drugs, which she was.
[01:18:03]
So, I went back into the bathroom to see what I could see, and there was blood everywhere. She had been mainstreamin’ in my bathroom, and bootin’ and squirtin’ the– the blood all over the– into the bowl. But some of it had to fell all on the floor and everything. So when I see that, it really took me for a loop. I was like, “This is crazy,” so what I did was I– I called her over after and said, “Don’t ever, ever do that again, and don’t ever use my bathroom again. Why would you do like that?” You know. And we had a big incident with it. So eventually I– I wind up cleanin’ all that stuff up and sanitizin’ it, and it really took me for a loop. Because it– it bothered me because she would do somethin’ like that. But that’s one incident that I had. Another incident that I had was– I had New Brunswick police department. It was a– it was a– a– a chief there. He was a– he was a lieutenant. And he used to harass me. And he harassed me for several years. And what happened was, eventually he wind up dyin’. And I found out that the reason he died, he had cancer. And I really think that that bothered him, that he had cancer, and I– I really think that was one of the reasons why he was just harassin’ me. He was miserable. Although I still treated him with respect. He didn’t do it for me. He was out to get me for one reason or another, I don’t know why. But he wind up dyin’. And I wind up, I wind up meetin’ his kid. His kid was– was on the fire department. You know, he was inspector. And, um, me and the kid hit it off! He was a really nice kid. He worked for the city for years. And, um, but his father had wind up, uh, kickin’ the bucket. And, um, I wind up meetin’ the kid years later. And me and the kid, the boy, you know, we became real good friends. I never told the boy about how the father treated me. I just went on. And– and– and built a relationship with the– the– the son. But other than any other incident, everything else was just hit and miss. You know, it was just the– a day at the shop. [pause]
[01:20:57]
Um, Mark, you said that that this isn’t as good right now as it was. Can you talk a little bit more about it in terms of what things were like when– when business was good, when things were plush, and what it’s like now and why do you think that’s– change has happened?
Well. Well, business– business back then what new. People was more prone to get their stuff fixed. And now, we have this epidemic. People are not spendin’ money or even dealin’ with their vehicles like they did back then. And nowadays, you’ve got newer vehicles that don’t break down like– like these old ones. And, um, you know, that’s one of the reasons why. [sniff] [clears throat] It kinda just slowed down. I think eventually, um, it’ll pick up, but I don’t think it’ll ever be like it was back, years ago. So, you know, right now I’m just sittin’ back and, you know, like I said, I’m older now. And I’m just ready to kinda like sit back and retire, just cool out. ‘Cause, you know, I done done mostly everything I wanted to do. Now it’s time to just live life! So.That’s why I look at it now. I just wanna see New Brunswick develop. I wanna see my grandkids get older. I wanna see my kids get older. And then I go on. That’s what I look forward to. [pause]
What a– what are your, um, interests and plans for your business now?
Well, well. I– I thought that my– I thought that my kids would be really involved in it, but they’re really not. My plans is like I said, eventually just retire. And– and doin’ nothing. Sittin’ back and enjoyin’ my grandkids. [pause]
I note that you’ve had some interest in– in food? Uh, through the Mercado Esperanza. Can you talk a little bit about, um, your involvement with the Mercado and, uh, how that is impacting your– your business?
Well, uh, right now, I, you know, I, I’m definitely thinking, I was thinkin’ that in terms of takin’ the trainin’ and the stuff that I got from Chicago and– and openin’ up just what I do at the Mercado at my place of business where I’m at. And, not to do it on a big ta– uh, big term, but doin’, where I know that it probably would work right where I’m at now. But, um, it’s– it’s just one of those things– I always question myself on, what are you doin’ this for? You know? You know, are you doin’ it because you just don’t wanna– you wanna do it so you can have somethin’ to do? Or do you wanna do it, you know, to establish somethin’? My thing is, I got– a, most things that I do now, I look at it in the terms of, who’s gonna– who’s gonna physically do this? And what benefit it would be by me doin’ it.
[01:24:21]
So right now, I’m on the fence to try and figure out where– where I wanna go with my– my– the rest of my life, and how do I wanna get there. So right now, it’s– it’s basically a thinking game for me to figure out what’s the best route for me. So that’s what I’m doin’ now is just sittin’ back, waitin’ see how this– this, um, this COVID thing is gonna pan out. And– and– and be safe! You know, and– and do everything I gotta do to– to stay healthy and strong through this all. You know? So now it’s just a waitin’ game. And that’s what I’m doin’. [pause]
Mark, um, can y– can you speak to– I guess, wha– what is the experience, um, whether it be safety or other considerations. What does it mean to be black in New Brunswick today versus when you were– versus when you were a kid. Is there– do you feel that there’s a– a difference in terms of, um, the quality of life or the community that’s there or the c– or the city that’s there to protect its– its– its community members?
What it means to be black in New Brunswick. New Brunswick is– is one of those places that– that I don’t think it really matters if you black, blue, purple or red. It’s all about what you’re tryin’ to do and how to do it. I think that it’s rare for a black man, woman, or, you know. To have a business in New Brunswick. And I don’t think that’s got anything to do with color. I think it’s gotta– got somethin’ to do with the person themselves. You know, business is a, is– is– is– is– is a– is a tough thing to go into. Because you got your pros and cons. You got your ups and downs. You got your all-abouts. You got your how to do what you want to do. Then, not only that, you also got it where– How am I gonna fit in that equation? You know, the area that I’m in. What I’m gonna offer? How I’m gonna offer it? And how I’m, how is it gonna be profitable?
[01:27:06]
So, it’s a lot of variables that you are, or a lotta blanks that you gotta fill in to put it together. And, bein’ a entrepreneur, you have to put it together. It ain’t– it ain’t no– it ain’t no written rules for it. You gotta take it day by day, hour by hour, month by month, year by year, and you gotta work it until it, you know, it multiples or it grows to where you want it to be. Then not only that, you have to maintain it. After that happens. So it’s a lot of work to do. And bein’ black, I really don’t think that it’s many blacks that’s got that zeal to push it. And to do it. Because, it takes a certain person to be a pretty decent entrepreneur. And, the support sometimes you’re out there and it’s gonna seem like nobody is with you. Or nobody is catering to you. Or nobody is– is– is sittin’ back, tryin’ta help you succeed, what you want to accomplish. But see. A good entrepreneur don’t care nothin’ about that. The zeal of of being able to, um, to do whatever burns within their heart, that’s what they do. You know? When you’re a entrepreneur, you can run it by somebody, they can either give you a negative vibe or a positive vibe. ‘Cause you know who they are. Most entrepreneurs is sold out to what they believe. So therefore, they will push until it, it’s accomplished. You know? And not only that– It’s who you share your thoughts with. And how to do it. Depends on your success! Because if you don’t believe in yourself, how can some others believe in you? So it’s all about– I call it “knockin’ on the door and waitin’ until somebody opens it up.” So you’re gonna knock knock until you get to where you wanna be. If you can’t put up like that, you might well shut up and leave it alone. And I– I really don’t believe that we have a, in blacks, I don’t believe we have many that’s got that– that burnin’ desire to, um, to push– push and sometime not even eat because you need that money to put gas in your car, or to pay a bill.
[01:30:18]
So therefore, I have to sacrifice to get there, to do what I have to do. So I don’t believe that– that– that– that it’s many out there that can do that. And not only that, I don’t believe that they have the support in and the people behind them to help them do it. You know, I think that the people would be more of a downfall on them, opposed to a updraft. [sniff] [pause] ‘Cause plenty’a– plenty’a times I can remember openin’ up my business, people of color didn’t cater to me like they were supposed to. They just didn’t, that– that I would think that they would, they would. I got– I got more business out of foreigners and– and upta– uh, pe– uh, Mexicans and, and– and– and the white folks then I did from my own kind. And it– and it– and it– and it bothered me for a while, but I always said. Money is green. It don’t come in no other color. So I– so I left it that way, and I– and I treated everybody equally. And I think that’s the best way to do it in New Brunswick, and I think it’s the best way to do it if you got any other business. You know, you can’t– you can’t cater to just one nationality. You gotta cater to all if you gonna be successful. [pause]
Mark, thank you! Are– are there any, um, final thoughts? Or, uh, comments you– you’d like to share that you make sure get shared for the record?
No, I think that’s about it!
Alright, great! Thank you so much for your time today.
Alright!
I really appreciate it.
And thank you.
Alright, enjoy the weather [laughs] and enjoy the game!
Yeah, it’s bad, man! It’s gettin’ worse, too!
Thank you!
Okay, we’ll talk.
[overlapping, inaudible]
[overlapping, inaudible]
Bye! [silence]
[01:32:43]
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