Hector Perez is a community organizer at Unity Square in New Brunswick who works at the Housing Resource Center and as the organizer of the Unity Square community gardens. He practices his motto of “We, not me” at his various jobs and committee obligations.

ANNOTATIONS

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TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Susana Plotts

Interview conducted remotely

January 28, 2021

Transcription by Cara Del Gaudio

00:00:00

Okay, so, we’re recording. I’m just gonna start by saying, uh, my name. I’m Susana Plotts, um, I’m in Brooklyn at 662 Madison Street, and it is January 28. Um, and if you could just say your name– er– and where you are?

Okay. I’m Hector Perez, I’m currently in Newark, New Jersey.

Perfect. Thank you so much. So, yeah, we’re just gonna– I’m just going to start by asking, uh, where– where were you born, Hector?

So, it’s interesting, because people ask me, you know, um, “where are you from” all the time, because sometimes, uh, people don’t know– visually, they don’t know where to– what box to put me in. 

Right.

In this society, we’re all about putting people in boxes and slapping a label on them. So, where I’m from: so, originally I was born in Newark, you know [unclear] in Newark, but when I– somebody asks me “where are you from”, I always say I’m from many parts of the world, because that’s where my history’s at, it just didn’t start in Newark, that’s one part of my history. But my history stands in Central America, South America, the Caribbean, Africa, so, yup. I’m from Newark, and I’m proud to say it because, when I was younger, I didn’t really have an appreciation for where I came from, ‘cause I– all I heard was negative connotations associated with being from the hood, being from Newark, being from the urban city, so, um, as I grew older and– I started understanding the complex history of where I come from. I developed a better appreciation from the thing, that, you know, I come from Newark and I’m proud of it.

Totally. And, um, are there, like, any, uh, you know, like, anecdotes surrounding, like, you know, when you were born? Some people have, like, stories about, like, their birth. Are there any?

Um, I don’t– there’s no specific, like, interesting story about my birth, um, my mother– I’m the second child from my mother’s side. 

Mhm.

Um, I’m the only boy that she had, and I’m the younger one– I’m one of two kids on my mother’s side. Um, when I was younger, um, when I– well, when I was born, I didn’t have a father in my life because my father was, you know, he was nowhere to be found, so my mother– my mother didn’t really have the support from a male, um, so she did it on her own. She gave birth in the hospital by herself, with a team of doctors around her, and, you know, she– she gave birth to the person I am today.

Yeah. Um, and you said you’re the youngest? Of– of your mom’s children?

Yeah.

How– how much older are your siblings? 

My older sibling is three years older than me. She’s– I’m twenty-five, so she’s twenty… eight. 

Okay.

00:03:02

Um, and did you– were you guys close growing up? 

Yes, but over the years, um, our relationship deteriorated, so– we don’t have a relationship at all. Currently. But when we were younger, yes, we did. 

And, um, are you still– um, does your mother still live in Newark?

Yeah. I live with her currently.

Oh, okay. Okay. Um, and so what was the, like, going to school like for you, like, where did you go to elementary school, like, what was your experience like as a kid in school?

Um, well, I had a rough experience because of my weight, because I were– you know, bigger than I should’ve been at every stage since my childhood. So when I was in school I was bullied, in elementary school, I was bullied because of my weight. And because I was awkward, too. Um, people used to assume, like, my sexuality, and so they would try to pick on me because of that. Um, so, elementary school was rough, was really rough. Um, I didn’t really have close friends, I had maybe one friend, that’s it. And so, I was actually, you know, the– the one who would get picked last in gym, or nobody would really interact with me, um, on a regular basis. So that really shaped– that really influenced my– my perspective and made me miss school a couple days, elementary school, because I just didn’t want to go, because I didn’t have any friends and I felt isolated. And since my mother worked a full time job, she didn’t really notice when we weren’t in school because she would leave earlier and come late.

00:04:45

Right. You feel like that situation, like, changed over time, like, as you got older?

Well, when I went to high school, and the high school that I wanted to go to was called Arts High School in Newark, and in Newark there’s seventeen or more high schools now, probably. They’re divided into two categories: magnet schools and, um, the– the– I guess they call them public schools. The magnet schools are the highest performing high schools, where you have to apply to be accepted, and then the other schools are where it depends on your location, your geographic location within the city, so it’s– if High School “A” is in your area, then you would automatically go there, unless you’re– you get accepted to another school. So I applied to Arts High School because I’m actually an artist myself. I like to draw and I like to paint and I’m pretty good at it. I just don’t devote enough time, as an adult, to it. Um, so I like– I did that, but my grades weren’t up to par. So I got rejected, um, and I went to Barringer High School, which is actually one of the oldest high schools in the US. Newark was founded in 1666, so it’s one of the oldest cities in the US, um, and my high school happened to be one of the oldest cities as well. And we– originally it was called Newark High School. 

Mhm. And then what was your experience there like?

Um, it’s interesting because going through the school, it was like going to a warzone, honestly. And that’s, like, public school systems for a lot of children around the US and around the world, where you should feel safe at school, but sometimes you don’t. When you had to go to the school, to go to the building you had to go through metal detectors and get patted down as if you were going into a prison. And psychologically that kinda trains you for that school-to-prison pipeline.

Totally.

00:06:37

So there was a lot of, you know, fights in school, a lot of, um, rivalries. So it wasn’t really safe, um, but there were teachers who generally cared. In chemistry class, we couldn’t get in trust [unclear] with the chemicals and like that way we didn’t really have, like, a chemistry class where we could mix things. The same thing in art class, we didn’t really get to use, um, pastels and things like that because they didn’t trust us with those, you know, materials. Um, so, unconventional school. We actually– when I was going to school, we had to come in at 8:30 and we would leave by 4:10, which is pretty late, considering the fact that most schools get out at 2:30. The reason why is because they wanted to increase the graduation rate, by thinking that, you know, if you kept students in longer, they would probably learn more. That wasn’t the case. It would just, you know, overwhelm students. Um, so it was unconventional, so, um, my high school experience was rough, but it shaped me to help– you know, it shaped me and helped me become the person who I am today, as well. Because my– my experience, that urban education experience, even though I didn’t really get taught my own history of Latin America and my own history of Newark, I learned a lot from the street and I learned a lot just being there physically, by living and seeing firsthand how the system is failing a lot of people. 

Yeah. In what ways do you think that it– it shaped you?

It made me– have a– understanding that, you know, we’re– a lot of us are products, are children of systemic racism in this country. Normally we talk about this US, um, binary Black and white system, and Latinos and other ethnic groups get, you know, pushed aside, or aren’t part of the conversation at all, but, systemic racism is very much intertwined with the Latino community, particular in urban education, um, and tactics of, you know, policing, and surveillance. So, it helped me understand from that perspective of being inside that environment, seeing it firsthand how, you know, we are not– you know, a lot of us men of color, Latinos, had– are not expected to succeed in society. We’re kind of– we’re given barriers in our place to help us– to prevent us from actually succeeding in education, which you would think would be the gateway out of poverty, sometimes is one of the hindrances of many school systems around the US.

00:09:11

Right. And do you feel like– ’cause you were saying that you were interested in art, did you feel like there was a place at your high school to develop that, or– or how– how was your relationship to– to making art in high school?

Um, I didn’t really take notice because I didn’t really, um, do any, like, substantial or– work that I thought was, um, you know, that good, in high school. So, I actually partook in an aviation program that they had in high school, which, they had it at the time when I was going at, but they did away with it. The aviation program allowed a small group of students to learn how to actually– how to fly and train them to actually become, you know, um, pilots. So, because I could do that program, I did actually learn– I did actually get the chance, um, around like six times to go to Caldwell Airport up in North Jersey, and, um, you know, fly an airplane with an instructor beside me, so that was a pretty cool experience. But the art portion wasn’t really– it took a backseat kinda.

Did you consider becoming a pilot?

I liked the experience, but I didn't have an appreciation for, like, the material, and trying to understand it and studying. In theory, I liked it, but I didn’t really take it seriously, so it was something that I started to be, because when I was in– elementary school, I developed my first passion for politics by seeing President Obama get elected to the presidency and that really, you know, sparked my interest in, you know, focusing more on politics and understanding our government as opposed to, you know, taking up art, or taking up flying or aviation. 

Right. And you feel like that interest in politics, like, kind of accompanied you throughout high school as well?

Yeah, I– I always kept– I tried to keep up to date with, you know, the federal government politics, not locally really. Um, but, you know, really interesting just seeing, like, the political process and that’s why I actually went, eventually, I went to study political science in college because of that moment in my time when I saw President Obama get elected.

00:11:23

Right. And where did you go to college?

I went to Essex County College. I thought about my community college because I almost didn’t graduate high school because I used to miss school a lot, and my grades weren’t also up to par, so I didn’t– uh, my GPA was very low, so I went to community college, even though [I didn’t want to], but I believe things happen for a reason in life, whether good or bad, and I met my– at Essex County College I met professors who I still keep contact with, people who actually, you know, cared. And I met– I made a lot of friends that I still keep in contact with and supported me every step of the way. I studied Social Science there, and then I transferred to Rutgers, um, after I got my Associates and I studied Political Science at Rutgers in Newark. 

Um, and what was that– what was that experience at Rutgers like? 

Oh, it was awesome. I liked it, um, I actually graduated magna cum laude at Rutgers, um, and I graduated honors at Essex and it was– it’s interesting because, like I said, I almost didn’t graduate high school and I missed a lot of school– a lot of school in middle school, so I did a complete 360 from going to, like, almost not graduating high school to actually graduating at the top of my class at Rutgers.

Right. 

So, um, it was–  I met a lot of professors who influenced my understanding of the world and really influenced me personally by being that, “You know what? We’re– a lot in common. We have more in common as human beings than differences.” 

Right, yeah, and it’s– and it’s all about the environment that you’re in.

Yup. 

00:13:02

Yeah. And, um, were– were– were you– so you were living in New Brunswick, like, were you living on campus when you were at Br– uh, at Rutgers? 

Well, I went to Rutgers Newark, so I just commuted. So, like, Rutgers Newark is, like, eight minutes from my house driving, so I would just commute back and forth. However, I never got that really college experience because I used to work– I used to go to school full time and work two part-time jobs, um, so I didn’t really get the– the experience of, you know, taking part of, like, um, you know, associations on campus. Any, like, you know, specific activist groups, I didn’t really do any of that, but my last semester, I did a study abroad in Oxford, England.

And what was that– what was that experience like?

It was scary, because I’d never been away from home for, like, more than, um, two weeks, three weeks. So being away from home for, like, four months was interesting. Um, I read about England, I didn’t know, I mean, um, a lot of the culture, but I went there, I really loved different. And I felt a bit, like, I felt an– I felt out– like, you know, a little bit different because it was my first time that I wasn’t around– I was predominantly around the, um, Caucasian people?

Mhm.

Um, so it was different for me. Um, but I– I learned a lot, I think. I felt even more prepared to perform because the– the grading system, the expectation is very different. And so, like, they would tear my papers apart, these professors. It’s especially that, in England, um, and it would be, you know, like, I wouldn’t take it personally, because I’d be like, “why is my performance so low in the US?” but I do so poorly across– in Europe, so it was interesting, but I learned a lot about the education system and also about myself as a person.

00:14:53

Right. You– were you– did you make connections with people there? Like, do you feel like you kind of started becoming more immersed in the culture or not, not really?

Um, to a certain extent, yes. I made more Caribbean friends there, um, people actually enrolled. I was a part of the– the Caribbean Society group that they had there, um, and I met people. Um, and then, pretty cool, I made a couple friends I still keep in contact with. I wouldn’t say they’re close friends, but people who I talk to from time to time and, you know, who still support me either way.

Right. And what– what part-time jobs were you working when you were, um, at school at Rutgers?

So, I started working as a mentor for children in the foster care system. It was my very first– well, that wasn’t my first job, that was my first professional job, I’ll say.

Mhm.

Um, I– somebody– one of my friends, um, gave me a connection to somebody and this person took a chance on me, and I exceeded expectations, um, so I realized, “Wow, I’m pretty good with working with children, or children who had rough– rough, you know, starts–  that didn’t have mother or a father sometimes, who came from– you know, from foster homes, or in the process of being adopted, but they still have all types of trauma. I did that for a year, um, and because of the politics, such as, you– you know, uh, a director coming in, and uh, and the hostility I was feeling there, um, I moved on somewhere else, and I got a job at an organization called Youth Advocate Program, which is nationwide, and you have offices in Ireland and in Guatemala. They work with, um, children who are in the foster care system, and I was working there for five years, um, part-time as an advocate, where I would pick up the client, we would go to the rec center, the library, um, the pool, I would take them so they could see something different outside of their environment and interact with people they may not necessarily interact with on a regular basis. So they love me and my name is Hector, um, I always had that, you know, he– I would always have them call me Mr. Hector just to keep that balance of respect, um, but I had– I learned a lot from them and I realize that, you know what, children love to talk and you just talk to them– talk to them, you know, they’ll– they’ll beam in two seconds, so like, they– they tried to get [one-up on me] but they couldn’t, they couldn’t manipulate me. 

00:17:18

Right. 

I also worked as a teaching assistant at [at Essex] in mathematics. Um, so I did that and I loved it, ‘cause I used to work with students who were out–  who were on parole, who were coming out of high school, I used to work with older students, and I really loved it, ‘cause I would motivate them to actually, you know, do the work. And they loved me too, so I worked there for five years, and I loved– I love both jobs equally. 

Do you feel like, because of the experience you had in the education system, and when you were younger, like it was like a fulfilling thing to– to be able to do?

It was, and– yep. The fact that, you know, feeling like I’m giving back to my community in some capacity because I level– well– I have this mindset of “it’s about we, not me”, and even though I didn’t get paid much in my previous job, and I’m, you know– I’m gonna say I’m underpaid either way, the more satisfying thing is, you know, being able to be somebody else’s [unclear] and that’s my passion there, is seeing how I could assist somebody else on their journey.

Right. How– how do you feel like you handled, um, you know, the– having two jobs and being in school? Do you feel like there were ways in which you kind of, um, dealt with stress?

Um– I don’t– I feel like sometimes I never really have a full, you know, grasp of how to handle stress? A lot of people feel similarly [unclear] I would go to the gym, but, like, around college, I developed my passion for going to the gym and losing weight and lifting, so I lost a lot of weight in college, um, and so that was one of my main things was to start going to the gym, or– or reading, or just, you know, meeting with some– some of my close friends, or even just working, working at a job that I love, even though my boss there wasn’t, like, the best, but the job– it, you know, it caused me to feel, like, de-stressed, while I was still stressed.

00:19:14

Right. Uh, when you were younger, what did you find yourself doing, like with your– like, did you have spare time, and, like, what did you find yourself, like, kind of doing?

Um, I don’t– I was– I was like– so, finally I was a homebody, all I did was stay home. And I had to take somebody with me to something, like, a dance, [unclear] And so I didn’t really have, like, any [video games] I would just watch TV. Um, yeah, I’d just do that, and really I didn’t really have any, I wasn’t close with a lot– I was actually antisocial as a kid.

Right, yeah. Where, um– do you feel like you had a very, like, close relationship with your mom?

No. Uh, not at all. It’s funny ‘cause I– I was teaching somebody today about this, and I feel like some people know me– know me better than my mother. So I never– 

Right.

Know I don’t have anything. I didn’t feel like I had a close relationship, nor I do at the moment, either. I totally have love for her, but it’s not something where it’s like she knows me, it’s just that, she knows my interests, but she doesn’t really know what I even stand for.

Right. And what do you think that distance is due– is due to?

Um, it just has to do more with, I don’t know. I always thought there was, like, favoritism between, um, me and my sister, so, um, I always thought that she was closer to her. And so I never– I distanced myself a bit. And [sigh] it’s been like that ever since, so, like I said I don’t have a relationship with my sister, so, that, um, part of me, at times, I feel like maybe the reason why my mother’s not really close to me is because there’s a wedge in between all three of us.

Right. What– and your mom was working a lot also when you were growing up, you said, right?

Yeah. She worked in a factory, and she’s been here since 1986, um, she’s originally from Guatemala. She was one of those people who crossed the border, um, at that time when it was much easier, um, so she– ever since she got here, she worked in the factory. In a freezer where they would have the employees stand on their feet ten hours a day, um, and just pack, um, ham into boxes?

Yeah.

So it was rough for her, ‘cause she had to, you know, be at work, uh, she had to get up at 3:30 in the morning and be at work at 5:00, and then wouldn’t come home until, like, 4:30 or 5:00. 

Yeah. 

00:21:37

Is she still working now?

Um, she actually got laid off a few years ago. The factory closed. So she was there almost thirty years? Right? [unclear] thirty, and then the factory closed and they laid everybody off. But she– she got laid off right before she reached the age of retirement, so imagine her age is, you know, harder, when you don’t have any experience other than working in a factory, or, you know, you don’t have any command of the English language, but for her, it was– it was rough. And I tried to motivate her to go to school, like, do something else, but some people, they just don’t want the help, they just don’t want– they’re– they’re so comfortable in their own way that they don’t wanna change.

Right. Do you– do you help support her? Now that she’s [cuts out]?

Well, now that she’s– well, she reached the age of retirement so she gets her social security pension, I guess you’d call it? Um, but she– I do support her, but also I have my own debt as well because when I was, you know, growing up, um, when I first got my first credit card, and I wanted to buy new clothes and new things, I started collecting left and right, and then, you know, that comes back to haunt you. And so I have a whole bunch of debt that I’m trying to pay off. So, it’s been hard for me economically, so I do work two jobs currently. I work a full-time and a part-time job. And so I work seven days a week.

Right.

00:23:04

Yeah. We– and your mom– so your mom came during the civil war [in Guatemala], right?

Yeah, so I don’t– she’s not really– she’s, um– for all intents and– for all intents and purposes, she is an indigenous woman; however, she doesn’t consider herself one because this is a typical, um, it’s a typical conversation people have in Latin America that, you know, associating yourself with anything indigenei– or anything that had to do with Indigeneity, or… Blackness is wrong. Anything that’s closer to whiteness is right. So, um, she– doesn’t consider herself an indigenous woman, she actually looks down upon indigenous people. That’s ‘cause– I would say her mind is colonized, is still colonized. So, she came right– like you said, during the civil war, but at that time the civil war was happening, mostly, like, the jungle area and the mountain area, um, a lot of people in the capital weren’t really paying attention because of the propaganda, because of the, you know, misinformation in the media, so, she came be– she came because there was no employment opportunity for her, and she had to go in part because of the civil war, you know, the destruction it caused. 

Right. And she doesn’t– so she doesn’t talk about her life in Guatemala that much? 

Well she grew up in the– she essentially came– she grew up in an orphanage. Well she– her mother– my grandmother– died giving birth to my mom, so, um, so my grandfather– her father– um, he didn’t want anything to do with, um, his children so he left. So she grew up in a– in a group home we could call it. And in that group home, she met other children who’d eventually become her cousins and her friends, and to this day she still keeps in contact with those same groups that she calls her cousins because, you know, they were together. And her social worker in that– in that group home became her auntie who she still’s with ‘til this day. 

00:25:01

Um, it’s just interesting, ‘cause when I go to Guatemala and I visit my mother’s cousin, I’m actually visiting her– her– her group home buddy. 

Right. So you have– have– oh, go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, like I had mentioned, like, I had worked with children in the foster care system for the last five years and somebody told me this: you know things happen in life for a reason, and so, um, the way I was working with children in the foster care system, you know, caring about them, somebody, you know, to get they care from my mother, and ironically, the way that I– I– you know, just like somebody worked with her, I work with children in need as well. 

Yeah. And so you have been able to– to go to Guatemala with– with your mom? 

Yeah, I did. I went– the first time was in 20...13? Or 2015. Twenty-thir– 2015 I think. Twenty-six– no, yeah 2015. I went the first time and I loved it. The culture window [unclear] is one of the most dangerous countries in Central America because of drug war, because of the gangs, [clears throat] I loved it because it was so different from me. A different language, a different culture, um, seeing how people– how– how much, uh, the indigenous people are there. For example, you could get on the bus and you could be next to an indigenous person speaking a whole different language, wearing their traditional indigenous clothing, and that’s amazing ‘cause you don’t really see that here, in the US. 

00:26:30

Right. Yeah. What– what about– what in the culture do you think– what do you love about the culture?

I love the colors. I always had a fascination with, like, textiles, and colors, and, um, history, so, the fact that these– these indigenous people preserved their Mayan languages, even though there’s twenty different– twenty-three different dialects just in Guatemala– now we’re not talking in Mexico that has even more indigenous people, or Bolivia, um, I love the fact that these people, you know, survived colonization and continue to practice the way their ancestors practiced. And give thanks to the ancestors for, you know, giving them the opportunity to be here, so, that’s what I love about it. The history, the culture, and seeing how it’s a sense of– it’s, again, “we, not me.”

Right. When you were there did you stay with your mom’s social worker?

Yeah, I met her. Um, she’s very nice. I’ve seen her in pictures, she’s been to the US before, visiting. So I met her, and then– as a young adult, and it was pretty nice. I got to see her village, where she lives, and I got to meet my mother’s cousin, who I spoke to on the phone many times, and I met her in person. And I went to el mercado which I always loved, you know, when, you know, going to el mercado with your little tote bag, and– over there there’s the ladies, you know, shouting and it’s all hustling and bustling there. And it really warms my heart.

00:28:00

Yeah. Did you– have you considered, like, spending a lot of time there, at some point?

Um, the last time I was there was two years ago. I went by myself, um, so I do– if I was– if it was up to me, I would pack all my stuff right now and leave. [laughter] Yeah, but that’s not practical at the moment. Huh?

Yeah. How long were you there for when you went by yourself?

I was there for three weeks. Three weeks. Yeah, it was– I mean, I was so happy. I really was. I got to go to the area which is just a town– a market that’s very famous that’s called Chichicastenango which is famous for just indigenous, you know, um, artistry and indigenous people selling their goods, and it was a beautiful explosion of colors. 

Where– what city are– is the– is the market in?

It’s called Chichicastenango. Um, yeah, it’s pretty long, so some of these Mayan names are so hard to pronounce sometimes, but it’s very famous in Guatemala. And, it’s– it’s beautiful just seeing the way the people– even though they face so much discrimination, so much backlash, these people, you know, are, you know, are there and their land has been, you know– con– continues to be, um, robbed by the government, and by multinational corporations, but they’re– they continue to try to survive.

Yeah. When– when you’re there– where– where were you staying when you were there?

Oh, my mother’s cousin. I always have a home somewhere. 

Mhm.

Yeah.

And do you feel– when you’re there, do you feel like it’s– it’s your culture? Or do you feel kind of like you’re visiting somewhere else? What is that– what is your rel– 

I try to fit in, and I try to assimilate to the culture, but I could never really fit in, and that’s, I think– I feel like that’s been part of my whole life: never really fitting into one group or one box, so when I’m there, I feel a part of the culture, but at the same time I still feel like the outsider sometimes.

00:30:02

If that makes sense. 

Yeah. Do you– do you speak Spanish?

I do, but not fluently. I learned Spanish at home, but, like, the very basic. Like, you know, “this is– this is how you pronounce a plate, this is pronounce the garbage”. So, things like that, to be able to write and read Spanish gets a little bit complicated for me, um, so I use my, you know, street Spanish and my Spanglish to get by, but I learned a lot of words working with different communities. 

Yeah. Did– did your mom speak to you in English growing up? 

No, only Spanish. Only Spanish. She only speaks English when she’s mad at me and it comes out [laughter]. 

Yeah. And so– so now you’re– so you’re working two jobs, right?

Yeah, I currently work as a community organizer, um, at Unity Square in New Brunswick, and I also work part-time at Domino’s Pizza [laughter] I gotta say that. We gotta always have some, you know, humor in that, because I have a college degree and– I’m working at Domino’s.

Yeah. Yeah.

[crosstalk]

Yeah. How– how do you– how do you balance both– working the two jobs?

It’s been rough, honestly. Especially I– with added covid and, you know, how mentally has been on all of us.

Yeah. 

Um, working seven days a week, leaving one job on Friday and then driving up, ‘cause I work in Domino’s Pizza in Passaic, which is wa– if you calculate it, it’s one hour from New Brunswick up north. It’s closer to me, um, to my location in Newark, but from New Brunswick it’s even farther.

Right.

00:31:38

Um, so it’s [unclear] and then I drive seven hours straight delivering pizzas. Sometimes, people don’t tip. People don’t understand that we live off of our tips sometimes, so, you know, when you’re delivering a pizza and you get a zero-zero on your– on the app there, it says “no tip”, that kind of hurts.

Yeah. Especially, you know, right now.

Yeah. But I still try to be warm-hearted when I give the pizza even if they don’t tip because I understand we’re all struggling and I know a dollar goes a long way for many of us.

Yeah. What, uh, what do you find yourself doing to kind of, like, you know, pass the time, or, like, what– what brings you joy, like, in your– do you have hobbies, or things that you do?

I go to the gym. I go to the gym as a hobby. I actually have a small business that I want to dedicate more time to, so I’m really, at this moment right now, I’m, like, reflecting: what’s my next step in life? Because I don’t wanna feel stuck forever in the same place. And I’m not a person who likes to be on one path forever for thirty years, no. I like to veer off paths and see what else is out there, so I say–  say because I have a small business where I sell, uh, artistry made by Indigenous and Afro-descended women throughout Latin America, like dolls, and textiles, and uh, different things made by hand, um, it supports them and empowers them as women, um, and so, you know, sold here, and, you know educates people about the diversity of Latin America ‘cause there’s no one face that represents Latin America. So, um, my– I keep– my star products are dolls, and I love them because they represent two cultures that are very dear and near to my heart, the Indigenous and Black cultures in Latin America, so, um, it’s interesting because you don’t really see a lot of men of color selling dolls– 

Yeah.

00:33:29

I’m a pioneer in that sense because I will show these dolls off proudly in two seconds in a room full of men, because these dolls tell stories and they’re full of history.

Right. How– how did that start, like how did you get– how did you make contact with the people who you’re working with?

Well I’m very friendly, I love talking and now that I’m not– I’m not antisocial anymore as an adult I love talking to people and I will just– I’m one of those people who, like, goes out, like hit up somebody random on Facebook and he’ll introduce me to somebody and I’ll go to a specific country and I’ll talk to people and I’ll be like, “hmm, do you know– do you have a connect– can you direct me to somebody?” and, uh, you know, it’s been like that so far: people networking and going from one person to another, and that’s how I made connections with people who, I guess, they give off a vibe, a genuine vibe that– ”you know what, I’m not here to get one on you, I’m not here to try to take your job, I’m not here to manipulate you, I’m here to work with you because I believe together we can change the world.”

Yeah. Yeah, and how– how– so, how did it begin, like who was the first person that you, like– the first woman that you came in contact with? Or, like, how did this idea with all the dolls, like, come about?

00:34:42

This was actually– in Guatemala City, when I met this woman who had her– her own little store, um, and something about her, her connection, her feeling, her aura, really called to me. And I just told her, “Would you mind selling in bulk to me? Because I want to be able to market and sell your product too, because I believe in these products.”. And so she looked at me like I was crazy. 

Yeah.

But, you know, when I returned the next time and I was looking all over for this woman, I– I took a picture with her and I was going around the second time I went, looking around with my picture and comparing people, like “ooh, is that her?” And I saw her and she said, “Wow, you actually came and found me,” and I was like “Yeah, that’s how dedicated I am, um, to these products.” So she was the first contact I had, and then, uh, next one would be in Ecuador with these Afro-Ecuadorian women who made these dolls– who make these dolls, these ragdolls, um, so a professor who I contacted got me in touch with them, and I’ve been in contact with them ever since, so like, networking like that, and it’s paid off because, you know, expanded my knowledge and understanding of their cultures.

Yeah. And– and– so you haven’t met them in person? Or– or you have?

I have, uh– one of them, yes, a couple people, yeah, who I bought directly products from, but not the ones who I continuously buy products from, but the ones who are down in South America, uh, to be clear I haven’t met them in person. But I do plan on visiting soon because I love to, um, I would love to meet them and, you know, say and have un cafecito con leche, uh, um, a little bread with coffee with them and just hear them and just listen to their stories. 

Yeah.

That’s on my bucket list, and also go to Mexico, as well.

Yeah.

Not just– not for vacation, but to actually provide [unclear] myself by the Indigenous and Afro-Mexican culture. 

Yeah. And there’s– there’s so much, like, artesania in Mexico too, I feel like you could, you know, meet a lot of people.

Yeah, actually, um, one of my passions– my other passions– is actually doing panel discussions and, um, coordinating panel discussions, uh, for, like, educational program purposes. And I’m a Boardmember for the Hispanic Research and Information Center at the university library. What that means is, part of my job there is– I’m a– I’m in charge of coordinating events, um, it’s catered toward the Latino community, but also other groups as well, so, I’m actually coordinating a program for Black History Month. It’s a transnational panel discussion, so I have an Afro-Mexican woman, I have an Afro-Colombian woman, I have a– a Black trans woman from Brazil, it’s all this different languages, but they’re gonna come together for one day and each are gonna talk about their social activism that they’re doing inside of their country, in their communities, talk about what it means, you know, for them, this moment of Black Lives Matter and Black liberation, et cetera. So I’ve been working on that as one of my projects. And I do it not because I want the recognition but because I wanna sh– uh, put the spotlight on somebody else. 

00:37:44

Right, yeah. And– and connect with people.

Yeah, and I’ve been– I’ve been Facetiming with them, and I’ve been, you know, Zooming with them, and it’s been amazing and I could spend hours just listening to their stories, and, and they– they’re so impressed because they sometimes think– and this is a misconception a lot of people have about the US– that, Americans think that the world revolves around the US, and to a certain extent a lot of Americans think that way; however, many of us, we have a very global perspective and so, I’ve read a lot about, um, anthropology and history and politics so that’s why I’m able to have these conversations with people from different parts of the world, ‘cause I know about cultures and I know a little bit about, um, different cultures and so I could speak to somebody who’s Mexican and have that conversation about, um, Veracruz y understanding the role of the Aztecs and the Mayans and la Costa Chica.

Totally. When did you start– when did you– did you start doing this sort of research or, like, reading about Latin America? Like what prompted you to– 

In college. Uh, one: because I didn’t know my own history, um, my mother didn’t teach me her history because she didn’t know her own history, or doesn’t know her own history. Um, and in school they didn’t teach us any Latin American courses at all, and so we could be sitting in a room full of Latinos, um, men and women, and you know, we don’t get our own history. Even Mexican-American history, which has been a part of US history since the beginning, is not really taught in the public school system from when I was a kid. And that’s a problem.

Like the annexation and all that, they never teach you about.

00:39:17

The annexation, the– the role of Mexican women in helping to liberate, um, slaves during the, um, Civil War, so things like that, or– I think as many– um, um the role of, you know, some of these– the Chicano movement, or how, I think there’s Martinez or Menendez v. California, which desegregated public school systems in California before Board of Ed– Brown v. Board of Education. So, things like that were never taught to me, and, um, it’s sad and unfortunate but I took an interest in college in, you know, Latin American politics and then I wanted to learn about the history and understand who I am and, you know, our people in Latin America, our brothers and sisters who are there, even though we are miles away, they are still a part of our, you know, history and our legacy.

And do you feel like through this, you’ve been able to reconnect with your own, you know, kind of sense of identity or your own sense of your– your history?

I found my identity, um, in college. I really found it, I did my research and I understand who I am as a person, um, I always say I’m triracial, I’m native– I always say Native American, Native American, Black and white because I cannot deny the people who made me who I am today, the people who went through enslavement and genocide so I can be here today to tell these stories. So I always, you know, keep my ancestors in mind whenever I do, because it’s about, you know, how they pushed forward and they thought about, you know, the future and I wanna push forward and think about the future for the next generation of people who come after me. So I think, you know, I think this– everything that’s happened to me because of this has wi– has awoken me and awoken– and ignited something in me to fight for those people, to fight for my people in Puerto Rico, my people all over Latin America. Even though I’m not Mexican, I would say that I hope– and I hope that one day the first American president– the first Latino president will be of Mexican heritage.

Yeah.

00:41:19

And so you’re– and so you’re Puerto Rican also?

Yeah, uh, my father was Puerto Rican. I never really connected with that side, growing up, ‘cause I had a lot of negative, you know, connotations associated with being Puerto Rican, um, but growing up, I developed more of an appreciation, and understanding and accepting my heritage, so, um, I, you know, I did my research and I know the history of Puerto Rico, how Puerto Rico– I would say a colony of the US, it’s not a commonwealth, it’s a colony of the US, and how statehood is even more, you know, important now, than, um– I’m sorry, not statehood, independence is even more important now than ever before for the island of Puerto Rico, um, and the people.

Yeah. Have you– have you gotten a chance to go?

The last time I went, I think I was a baby, if I recall my mother telling me, but I have not been and I need to go there because when I’m in the– when I, um, when I go there, I want to feel a sense of reconnection with my Caribbean roots.

Yeah.

And I know people– uh, the– the Spanish-speaking Caribbean which has so much history as well, which comprises, you know, the DR, Cuba, and Puerto Rico, and, um, so I really– I look forward to going there and, you know, just spending time there and immersing myself in the culture. Because that’s a part of who I am, that’s a part of my history. 

Totally. Yeah. And how do you feel about– when did you start working at, um, Unity Square, like, how did that begin?

00:42:52

I’ve been there for a year and a half, I started working– probably like– yeah. I started working August of 2019, um, I worked– I’m in charge of the Housing Resource Center and I’ll be quite honest, my, um, you know, my expertise in housing was not that– it was not high at all. Uh, but  what really, I think, landed me the job was my enthusiasm and passion and, you know, coming into a role as a community organizer, um, I actually– I believe I– I even made myself proud because I fulfilled what I came to Unity Square to do, which was, you know, find ways to work with, you know, people who are in need and, you know, empower them to continue to fight for themselves. Um, unfortunately, the majority of, uh, people in the area that we serve are largely undocumented, and, um, the– the population that we serve is mostly, um, Mexican, uh, southern Mexico in the state of Oaxaca and Veracruz, um, but these people have taught me so much and it’s amazing how much influence, you know, one person can have in your– It can change your perspective. I’ve spoken to one women who understood so much of history, had a great, you know, philosophy on life and she taught me a lot and it was like, wow, she opened my eyes and that’s something that we don’t really do in this society, we don’t talk to each other as much as we should. We don’t get a chance to ask each other, you know, “What’s your story?” I know you’re from Newark, I know you’re from Mexico, but tell me more about that, tell me the history. What drives you to be who you are today?

00:44:38

Yeah. And she– this was a Mexican woman?

Yep. A Mexican woman and I– apart from being in charge of the Housing Resource Center, I’m also in charge of the two community gardens we have there. So, they’re um, I nev– I didn’t have experience with community gardens at all until I started working there. But seeing how– how much passion and love a lot of these women had for gardening and growing their own food and even, like, growing their food that are native to their land, uh, they felt a sense of being home even though they were miles and miles away. And many of them can’t even visit home because they are undocumented, they– they don’t take the risk of traveling and not returning, so, you know, they’re growing– uh, papalo– I think it’s called papalo? Or they grow maiz, makes them feel connected to their– their home. 

Totally. Yeah. I– I– I really felt that one, when I was talking to Angelica.

Yeah, she’s very passionate. I love Angelica because she, like all of us, she has an interesting story to share. Not only being a woman, but being, you know, um, a woman who has, you know, experienced the life of an immigrant in this country and understands how, you know, how much– even though they have contributed so much they still face those barriers ahead of them.

Yeah. So many. Um, so you– was the garden program– did it precede you working there, or did it start when you started working there?

Um, it was– it has been in Unity Square for I think at least eight years, a part of Unity Square. It’s a contract they have with the city where they lease those– I guess those two properties, um, one in Feaster Park and the other one on Suydam Street. Um, so it was already there, um, but it was really– the same gardeners every year participating, which was fine; however, I wanted to– I came with the vision of, give somebody else a try. Again, like, put the spotlight on somebody else for one– for once. So I opened it up for new enrollment and we got, you know, a group of gardeners who always– who told me, “Wow, I love to garden but I never had a plot anywhere,” so, like, we gave them the opportunity to be able to do that, even though there was hesitation from some of the original OGs there, who felt very– 

Mhm.

About, you know, having new people come, but I– I told them, you know what, this is a community garden, it’s not an individual garden.

00:47:05

Right. And how did– how did you make the space for new people to come?

Um, unfortunately we– some people, some of the, um, original gardeners, they would have, you know, two, three, even– one of them had four plots for herself.

Right.

Um, so I– I actually, you know, divided that. I was like, you know what, this year, instead of having four, you’ll get two. And if you, you know, if you’re not happy with two, then I’m sorry, but we need to give somebody else a try. So I would divide, you know, I would give one less plot to some people.

Mhm. Yeah. And how– how has your experience with it been? With the garden?

Um it’s been nice. It’s been amazing just seeing the transformation, how it goes from looking like there’s nothing there to, like, blooming in the middle of summertime, seeing the reds, the greens, a lot of the jalapenos, the tomatoes, the flowers, I even had a box myself ‘cause I wanted to try gardening, and I grew my own tomatoes, I grew, um, some peppers, I grew an eggplant that didn’t really grow, but the plant was there [laughter]. It was amazing and, you know, show– and I, you know, I would go there after work and water it and take care of it and I loved it. I loved just going there and seeing, like, the progression from, like, itty bitty plants to, like, humongous plants.

00:48:29

Yeah. Did you feel like it has created, like, a sense of community between the gardeners? Like, is it kind of like a social space when people are there at the same time?

It was a social space. They used to do, like, barbecues and little gatherings there, but because of COVID, that wasn’t happening and it was kinda, um, bum– I kinda got bummed out because, you know, we had new gardeners this past year, so it had– it would have given them the chance to meet each other, but, um, you know, hopefully in the future they’ll be able to interact more with each other and, you know, work alongside with each other. Angelica is one of the coordinators– 

Yeah.

And so is Aurelia, and they’re the ones who are– who, you know, alleviate a little bit of the work for me in terms of communicating with the gardeners and making sure people are, you know, compliant with the rules and regulations, um, we always have a famous pumpkin gate where somebody always grows pumpkins, even though they look nice and I– I’m sure they’re delicious, um, but the vines grow everywhere and they’re invasive and they go into other people’s plots, so we gotta make sure that– 

Right.

All the people can grow– aren’t growing pum– uh, growing, uh, plants that are gonna invade other people’s space. 

Yeah. Yeah. And, um, what– what are your, like, specific responsibilities, like, would you say? Like, what does the job entail with the garden?

00:49:47

Um, I mean– 

What’s kind of, like, the week-to-week sort of activity like?

The week-to-week, making sure that the garden– there’s no garbage there, making sure that the weeds, which are usually placed on a tarp, um, so after the gardeners weed their own plots, their own plots, they place it on a tarp, or they’re supposed to place it on a tarp, and I’ll go ahead and bag the– the weeds into paper bags, I’ll make sure that the tools are back in the shed, I’ll make sure that the gardeners are following, like, the social distance guidelines or, um, making sure that, you know, any complaint or any problem gets resolved quickly, so, um, I’ll have to make sure that each of them– we provide them with free plants, um, for free, so we make sure that each of them get their plants, um, each of them clean up their plots, and things like that, and so it’s been a learning experience, especially delegating mostly women gardeners with different personalities [laughter] um– 

In– in what sense? Like what– what–

Some women in the garden are more outspoken than others, some of the gardeners are more– laid back, so, you know, when I have to speak to the ones that are very outspoken or are the first ones to complain about the other gardeners– 

Right. 

Um, you have to try to find a way to calm them down and, you know, give them reassurance that it’s not that serious, it’s just a garden.

Right. So it takes a lot of kind of, like, people intelligence, like, emotional intelligence to be able to–

Yeah. And I– it goes back to like the territorial thing, like, you know, and sometimes an entitlement thing as well, so I have to try to find a way to rope people back in and realize, you know what, this is not a big deal, it’s, you know– it’s just a garden and we could make it beautiful, we could make it, you know, uh, something where we all enjoy as long as we’re all, you know, willing to work together, not fight each other every step of the way.

Right. 

Yeah.

00:51:45

And– 

So it gets– it gets political– a garden, believe it or not, can get political [laughter].

Of course, yeah. I guess, like, like any space. 

Yes. 

Can have the potential for that. What– what do you think are, like, the benefits that gardens– that the garden brings into people’s lives that you see?

It’s a form of therapy– therapeutic. When I was there in the garden, I, um, after, like, a long day of being inside a building and being, like, in front of a computer, I was there and I felt liberated. I was outside, I was out there in the sunshine, it’s a form of therapy, it’s a form of exercise, because for those who have arthritis in their hands, you know, putting your hands in the soil and, you know, grabbing things, it’s actually– it’s a form of therap– therapeutic, um, for arthritis, um, it’s a sense of, you know, being sociable, like, you have to, um, so it– it does a lot and it also provides food for some people because, you know, people do grow their own tomatoes and those– for those who love, um, pi– tomatoes or cook pico de gallo, you know, they get to grow it themselves and enjoy it even more because it came out of a soil in which they planted their seeds within.

Right. 

Yeah. And it’s interesting, um, this year we actually– for the first time, we had one male gardener. Which was– you know, it was– I liked it because I got to speak to him directly towards the end of the garden season, uh, but, you know, he got to tell me his story and how he came and developed a love for gardening even though when you think of gardening, or when you think of certain professions, you think of more, um– stereotypically, you think of women, but, you know, there are actually male gardeners, there are gardeners of different ethnic backgrounds who enjoy the craft. In the garden we had, like I would say, a diverse set of gardeners. We had someone from Peru, we have somebody from the Dominican Republic, we had somebody from, uh, of course Mexico, um, so it was pretty diverse in that sense because Latin America is so diverse, so the representation matters. 

00:53:49

Of course. And so did, like, the gardeners– did any of them know each other before or do you think that this has been a way for people to meet each other?

They knew each other, um, those who actually were there originally, but, um, this has been a way for them to come together. ‘Cause I was, you know, that required– before COVID, we would do some meetings to, like, strategize, ‘cause one of the gardens is being, um, re-renovated, so they had a, you know, they had a input in the process of what they would like to see done in the garden. So they have gotten a chance to, you know, meet each other and socialize a bit more.

Right. And, um, what– what sort of– where do you see the garden program, like, going? Do you have any kind of, like, ideas for ways that it could evolve in the future?

I think that we need to get more ch– even some of the ga– even though some of the gardeners bring their children in the– you know, with them to come help out, I think that we should allocate specifically– certain number of beds just for children. 

Mm. Yeah.

And I think that– that’d be great because it gets them, like, a head start. Um, Michelle Obama, during her, you know, her tenure in the White House, she was big on, you know, healthy eating and getting children active and one of her loves was gardening. So she actually came to Newark a couple times to one of the charter schools that had a community garden on the rooftop. And Michelle Obama came to Philip’s– or, the Philip’s, um, Charter School in Newark and she, you know, watched the kids in action on– on– on their own little plot. And so that was inspiring because, you know, it shows the children, we’re just about– we’re, you know, always looking for something to get our hands dirty, or a chance to, you know, be creative. 

00:55:45

Yeah. What– what do you– what are the benefits for kids, you think, to, like, garden?

Um, it gives them a better understanding and appreciation for– for– nature, and, you know, the earth, and hopefully, you know, raises a little bit of more environmental consciousness among them, in the sense that hopefully they won’t litter if they see other people littering in the streets, you know, um, having appreciation for where their food comes from, because even though the food at the supermarket, we, you know, pick– we pick it up, we put it in our basket, we buy it, take it home, behind that fruit has a face [unclear]. Somebody picked that fruit. Somebody was out there in the sun for maybe long hours picking that fruit, so that you can enjoy it. So hopefully it’ll, you know, give children an appreciation of where their food comes from and the people who make it possible for them to eat.

Totally.

Yeah. And I think– and I tell somebody this– that I feel like people– the Time Magazine, the Person of the Year should have been a farmer on that cover, because if it wasn’t for farmers, many of us who were, you know, isolated at home, quarantined at home for those few months, would not be eating because of these farmers.

00:57:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How– how do you think that the garden has been affected by COVID, like, what has changed?

Before, the number of people we, you know, allow into the garden at one time, we can’t control, ‘cause I’m not there monitoring, you know, everyday, the garden, so we encourage people, we have a sign there, where– you know, encouraging social distancing, wearing a mask, uh, you know, uh, being, you know, making sure that you take the proper protocols to avoid– you know, any c– you know, any– any, um, uh, any– contracting of the disease via airborne, of your, um, you know, air, so, um, it has affected the gardeners in the sense that many of them can’t be in the garden the same time. So, and a lot of them are on the older side, too, which puts, you know, even more, you know, caution for them, because covid really affects the older population a lot.

Right. Yeah. So what do you think are, like, the biggest challenges for the garden going forward?

Feaster Park, um, Feaster Park itself is going to be remodeled. That’s been a plan for the– from the city to remodel that park. A lot of homeless people sleep in the park, so they wanna beautify the park and the garden– see, the garden is right in the– not in the middle, but like, closer to, like, one of the corners of Feaster Park, so if they remodel the park, we’re not sure what the future of those gardens are going to be, so you may decide, “You know what, we want this space to do a playground, or we want the space for something else,” so the future of Feaster Gardens is uncertain. We hope that it’ll continue there, but, you know, we don’t know. And then for Landers, it’s in the process of being remodeled, um, and so we hope that that’ll be finished by, you know, this year, so that the gardeners are able to enjoy the remodeled garden. 

When are they planning on remodeling, um, the Feaster Park, like when?

00:59:08

That’s been– that was supposed to happen last year, but because of COVID, it didn’t happen, so that’s still up in the air, so I don’t have a specific answer, but I hope– it’d be great if they remodeled them and became more beautiful because the park, you know, looks a little bit deprived. Um, but at the same time, I hope that it’s not at the expense of the gardens. 

Can you communicate with the city about that? Like what is– is there a– a relationship between the city and the gardens? Like is there a way to–

Since we are the ones in charge of the gardens, um, there’s a contract between Catholic Charities, which is the organization that we work for– so Unity Square is under Catholic Charities– and the city, so they have a specific contract, so the city could come and just, you know, break the contract at any second, or– just like, the building that we’re in, we lease that building from the city, so the city could decide, “Well, we need this space for something else, and so we wanna break the contract,” so, you know, it’s up to the city. But, from my understanding, there’s no communication. That would have to be from the higher ups at Catholic Charities, not from me specifically because I’m just one of the, like, the lower level workers.

Right. And so they– the city can legally break the contract at any time?

Yeah, because– yeah, it’s their property, so they’re not really paid– we’re not paying them specifically for that area, we’re just like– it’s a contract where they allow us to– they allow us to have that– the piece of land so, um, we’re not paying for it.

Where does, um, the funding for the gardens come from?

From our grants. So my main funding is out of the Revitalization grant for NRTC, uh, um, so it comes from there, so a specific, you know, portion of their money is allocated for gardening and, you know, community programs, so that’s what we get the money to fix the beds, and for the plants and for the soil.

01:01:09

Are they public grants or private? Like, entities?

I’m sorry?

Are the grants, like, city grants or are they, like, priv– from private entities?

They’re from– I think– from, like, corporate, like, um, donation offices, so if it’s not– I don’t think they’re private because multiple agencies apply for the same grants, it’s all about who writes a better, you know, grant, who writes a better proposal, um, who gets the funding, who has more connections, so, you know, it gets political because there’s– we’re not certain whether we could get– we’ll be funded for X number of years, so, if our budget lasts in half, then that means that, you know, we have to look from other parts, you know, grants to take out. 

Right. Are you responsible for the grant– for, like, grant writing or is that somebody else?

That’s, um, my director, Jen Hinton. She’s totally responsible for grant writing– which would be a great experience for me to learn about grant writing, but that’s hers.

Mm, okay. And do you think that the funding is enough? The funding that you guys have for the garden? Do you think it’s–

Yeah, it’s pretty– it’s enough, I think, for, like– cause it’s two– it’s two small gardens, but if it was any bigger, we would probably need more funding, but what we have is enough. 

Okay. And you were saying that your other responsibility at Unity is related to– it’s housing, right?

Yeah, so I’m in charge of the Housing Resource Center, um, more, um, in the, you know, tenants’ rights and, uh, directing workshops about tenants’ rights and, you know, the ordinances– the ordinances in New Brunswick when it comes to rent control, making sure that the information is actually being presented to the public, um, I learned a lot along this– along the– along the– the last, you know, the last year and a half, about housing and, uh, the rules that, you know, under the state of New Jersey, so it’s information I try to pass along, especially to my undocumented brothers and sisters in New Brunswick, because a lot of them, um, they sublease, so that means that they– we have multiple families living in one unit. So if you have a four bedroom apartment, you know, you have, most likely, you know, four families living in this apartment and it’s not necessarily, you know, people who know each other. It could be somebody who writes a sign and puts that out in the street and says, you know, “room for rent” and so you have total strangers living in your house with you, which would be interesting, you know, interesting experience. 

01:03:44

Yeah. So that– and that’s– that’s kind of, like, the prevalent situation, is that people live many families in one apartment?

Yup, we have the issue of overcrowding, especially now with the COVID pandemic and how, you know, they require social distancing, which is not really possible in a small apartment that’s overcrowded. 

Totally. Yeah. So you– you kind of, like, inform people about what their rights are as tenants and what they can do in certain situations?

I refer them to, like, the rent control office, or I help them fill out applications, um– 

Mhm.

Or, like, security deposit claims in, just in case, like, their landlord doesn’t want to return their security deposit, I– you know, I try to guide them, you know, “This is the steps we need to take to file a claim with the court,” and, you know, this is what’s gonna happen, and [unclear] that way, the, you know, they at least have some sense of support, because when you don’t speak English, fl– fluently, and when you don’t know the legal system, it gets overwhelming and you feel helpless sometimes.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Do you feel like– I guess you feel, like, you’re probably really familiar with the New Jersey housing laws?

Yeah, I– I– I have– so basically I had to familiarize myself with it, so I learned a lot [laughter]. Um, online there’s a booklet– a free booklet, uh, called “The Truth in Renting,” um, it’s, you know, from the state of New Jersey and it tells you all types of laws, it breaks it down and makes it very easy to understand and I recommend people to read it because it’s a lot of useful information.

01:05:17

Of course. Yeah. What do you think, um, the most fulfilling part of your job overall is?

The most fulfilling part has been– just talking to people. That’s honestly– I could– it hasn’t been winning a case, you know, over money, um, for a client, no. It’s been talking to people and understanding them and understanding their perspective and, you know, showing a sense of, “You know what, you’re fight is my fight and I don’t care, you know, if you’re have to go up against legal– or we have to go up against a group of attorneys, you know, I’m here with you, I’m here on your side, and we’re gonna fight to the very end.” That’s been the most rewarding experience: talking to people and help– assisting them and fighting their fight.

Totally. Yeah. Well thank you so much Hector, um, I– that’s– I think the questions I have for now, I don’t know if there's anything else you wanna talk about or add or things that you wanna go back on?

Um, I just– yeah, so I’m being recorded, I just wanna leave you three of my favorite quotes. Um, the first one is, the US– we– their– they practiced, uh– we have socialism for the rich, and individualism for the poor.

Yeah. 

Number two is something I saw one time. It was an indigenous woman who said, “My textiles are the book that the colonizer could not burn.”

Wow.

The third one, um, is by my– one of my role models, one of my, you know, sheros. Her name is Malala Yousafzai, she was shot in the head by a terrorist group in her native country of Pakistan because she stood up for women’s education and rights. Uh, she quoted a thing at the United Nations, she said, “One child, one teacher, and one book can change the world.” So thank you.

01:07:24

Aw, thank you so much. And I guess I– I– yeah. I guess my last question is do– do you feel hopeful about, you know, the future of, you know, like, the fight, you know, for– for people to– to have what they need and– and to be, you know, to live dignified lives, like you feel hopeful about that future for the US?

Yes, yes and no. Um, when I see young people, you know, out there and doing what they have to do, being the leaders, um, but when you have an older generation or an older system that still wants to maintain their fu– uh, monopoly of power, then that gives me a lot of doubt that, you know, things will change any time soon in my lifetime. Um, but every little bit helps and I know every little bit helps. You know, we’re gonna lose a lot of battles along the way; however, we still have to keep that– like you said– that hope. Um, you know, so, yeah, yeah, I’m hopeful, but I’m very skeptical [laughs]. 

Right. But I guess things– things like the gardens, which, you know, like, improve people’s lives in smaller ways can be very, you know, impactful in the long term.

A dollar goes a long way for somebody else, a pair of shoes that we don’t need goes a long way for somebody else, so, and I always tell people, you know, when we feel like– ’cause in this society, we feel like, um, we feel, like, you know, we are so down that, you know, no one’s gonna understand us, you know, we have it so hard, but it’s embarrassing [unclear] to other parts– a lot of people in the world, we have a lot of privilege in this country and I hope people one day wake up and realize, you know what? In comparison, we don’t have it as hard.

Right. Yeah. 

Mhm. Yeah. I appreciate this interview and I know I can be long-winded, I could talk forever, I’m gonna write a book– 

No [laughter] No, do it! No, you’re great, thank you, thank you so much for your time, Hector, and, um, it’s been a pleasure talking, um, I’ll let you know once we have the transcription, and the– the key, you can have access to that and kind of, like, read it through, um– 

Yeah, I don’t wanna hear my voice. I don’t wanna hear my voice, I– I think I sound awful on– 

[laughter] Yeah, I feel like nobody likes– nobody likes hearing their voice– but no, we can– we’ll give you the written transcription.

Okay.

Um, so you can just read through it and, you know, yeah. Yeah, we’ll be in touch about it. Again, thank you so much for your time and for your openness, I– it’s been really nice talking.

Likewise, thank you. Have a good night. 

Alright, you too, have good– take care. Bye bye.