Columbia student Amiri Tulloch speaks to the racial violence he has encountered and hopes to help eradicate. His love for his community is evident, and he talks about this love in how his political awareness was shaped by his relationship to Highland Park.
“In Highland Park, yeah, we’re quote-on-quote ‘safe’ community but, like, safe to who, and safe from whom? Like, who are we safe– who are we safe from? And I feel like once we start to ask those questions, it’s a little more difficult to begin to, like, tie the police to any concrete function besides, like, a policing mechanism that’s presumptive and assumptive on who the criminal is, who the policing– who needs to be policed, and I feel like in Highland Park a lot of those questions have never been fully answered about, like, larger questions about how we think about New Brunswick.”
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More [2]: Camila Domonoske, “Interactive Redlining Map Zooms In On America’s History Of Discrimination,” NPR, October 19, 2016, sec. America.
Learn More [3]: “The Safest and Most Dangerous Places in Highland Park, NJ: Crime Maps and Statistics,” crimegrade.org, accessed April 11, 2022.
Learn More [4]: “U.S. Census Bureau Quick Facts: New Brunswick City, New Jersey,” United States Census Bureau, accessed April 11, 2022.
Learn More [5]: “Home Owners’ Loan Act (1933),” Living New Deal, November 18, 2016.
Learn More: “Desegregation of Highland Park’s Schools,” Highland Park School District, accessed April 11, 2022.
Learn More [2]: “History - Brown v. Board of Education Re-Enactment,” United States Courts, accessed December 15, 2021.
Learn More [3]: Matt Barnum, “Did Busing for School Integration Succeed? Here’s What Research Says.,” Chalkbeat, July 1, 2019.
TRANSCRIPT
Interview conducted by Daniel Swern
Interview conducted remotely
November 29, 2021
Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn
Annotations by Hannah M’Lynn
[00:00:00]
Okay, so we’re now recording, Amiri. Um, so today is Monday, November 29th. It’s 9:45 am. Uh, we are recording over Zoom. Uh, I’m Dan Swern, producing director of coLAB Arts conducting this oral history. And I’m presently here in Highland Park, New Jersey. And you are?
Hi, my name is Amiri. Um. And currently in New York at school at Columbia University by the college, currently. But um, I’m a resident of Highland Park.
Amiri, do you mind saying your full name?
Yeah, it’s– my name is Amiri Tulloch.
Yeah. Thank you, Amiri.
Yeah, no problem.
Uh, so whenever you’re ready, feel free to start from the very beginning. Somewhere in the middle, if you prefer? [chuckles] Anywhere is good. But, yeah! It’s all yours.
Oh, okay. So I guess I can start with, like, Highland Park and how I, uh, got to Highland Park and so that process and then I can open it to, uh, everything else, I guess. But basically I got to Highland Park when I was just beginning high school, 9th grade. Uh, it was actually my first year being in school? So, moving to Highland Park, I moved to a new neighborhood and to a brand new school. Before that, I was living in Woodbridge. I was homeschooled by my mom. Uh, and then before that, before that I was in Newark. So pretty much Middlesex County for the most part. Uh, moving from Woodbridge to Highland Park was a very big move, um, and that is, that was precipitated by a whole ‘nother story of, like, New Jersey history with the Hurricane Sandy, like, we were part of a buyout program that got us out of [crash] Woodbridge because of flood– flooding that was rampant in Woodbridge and so I got to Highland Park in 9th grade.
My first year in public school, public high school. Um. And, yeah! I spent two years at Highland Park High School. I spent the next two years after that, junior and senior year, in boarding school at Phillips Andover Academy in Massachusetts. And after that, I’m– I moved to where I am now, Columbia University in New York, where I’ve been for the past three and a half years, basically. I’m just about to graduate. So that’s kind of like a timeline from Highland Park to now, and in between I’ve either been at school or at home. And when I’m at home, I’m normally like, trying to be active with what’s going on at Highland Park, like, what’s going on in the town. I think that started from when I was first moved to Highland Park, we just got involved with the community and saw, um, that there was a lot of like, political activity going on but also not a lot at the same time, so that was a real, like. From then, I’ve always been interested in, specifically in Highland Park and so, I’m either doing that or I’m at Best School, and my interest is in journalism, so I feel like a lot of my, like, entry points into things is through journalism, so I just remember first in Highland Park when I moved there trying to get involved with journalism.
[00:03:09]
I remember, like, the first day of school I signed up for the student newspaper. So I was able to cover like, you know, sports games here and there. I’d write little things for the Highland Fling, which is what the newspaper was called. Um, then I also was a writer for the Highland Park Planet which was like a hyper-local newspaper in Highland Park. Um. And both of those, I feel like, helped me to get enmeshed in, like, writing about and thinking about and talking about Highland Park from like a meta perspective and just, you know, being conscious or aware of what was going on in the town and, like, going to Board meetings, interviewing people, or talking to different residents who have been here a long time. And, um, also, just I think being connected to a lot of my friends and seeing, uh, a lot of my friends who had been in Highland Park for their whole lives, right? Like, they had [inaudible] person in the town. It was kind of like a lot of openness. To understanding, like, what the history of Highland Park was and especially the history in like a, in the sense that a lot of it seemed like it hadn’t been discussed. And so, like, there was a lot of like, the town is very, I don’t know. It’s a very set town. It’s a very structured town. It’s a very, like, it’s a suburb that I think pretty much typifies most suburbs there. They were built for a reason and they kind of stay in that situation and so it was really always interesting for me to like, understand, like, oh, why is the town built like this? Or like, how– how is power distributed and like, how are kids nowadays experiencing the town and like, why do people leave Highland Park? So me and my friends decided to leave after they graduated high school. Why do so many people have to stay? I feel like I was always interested in those questions, and, um, fortunately I had a lot of teachers at my high school that were,like, helping me to, you know, connect those questions about the town to, like, my interests in journalism and encouraging me to write and encouraging me to, you know, help out with the, like, getting involved in the political activity. So, um, I feel like I’m, like, meandering through this, but, like, [clears throat] one of the things that I think is important is in high school, me and a couple of my friends helped start, or revive, a radio station in Highland Park High School? Something I always think about is the fact that we kind of, um, there was a– there was a radio station at Highland Park High School back in the 70s and 80s. Pretty popular radio station. Most people from that time knew about it, and so we decided to revive it my sophomore year, freshman year entering sophomore year. So it was really cool to be able to, like, connect with other students who had a lot of podcast ideas and we were able to, like, build a little podcast network. You know, it was fledgling. We didn’t get a lot, but it was really fun to kind of just see that there was a lot of dynamic, there’s a lot of dy– there’s a lot of dynamic things going on in Highland Park and, like, I feel like I’ve always understood Highland Park to be a place with a lot of, like, activity?
[00:06:01]
And specifically from the young people in Highland Park. Like, it was always, um, it’s always a lot going on. Uh, so I feel like my political awareness and relationship to Highland Park increased as like, the national political scope got more vibrant? I mean, my first two years in Highland Park was 2014 and ‘15, so seeing, like, a lot of the police brutality on a national scale, I think was, like, super important. Seeing, like, Black Lives Matter rides to, like, climate justice.
[Editor’s Note: Black Lives Matter, as a decentralized social movement, is centered around advocacy for systemic change in our policing and legislative systems to improve the quality of life for Black Americans. This movement's goal is to organize and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. In 2013, a 17 year old Black teenager named Trayvon Martin was murdered by a neighborhood watch volunteer named George Zimmerman after exiting a convenience store. This initial incident led to the formation of the group. Shortly after, in 2014, an 18 year old black teenager named Michael Brown was murdered by a police officer named Darren Wilson. As Amiri states, these murders sparked protests against police brutality across America. The Black Lives Matter movement is still active in America today.]
I remember that being huge in high school. Um, so I feel like I was in– in– I began to grow up in Highland Park at a time where there was a lot of, like, real, like, political on a national scale that I think trickled into, like, what we saw as students, and then I think has pushed me to be more politically active. Um. I guess, I don’t know where to go next. I think, um, I mean, I think what I think about, like, my time in New Jersey, a lot of it is, a lot of my, like, perspective has come from my parents, both of them, but my mom specifically. She was– she’s a New Jersey native. She was born and raised in Jersey in Scotch Plains. Uh, Scotch Plains, Plainsboro Area. I always remember when my mom and her family, and, like, family being an important entry point into New Jersey history and like, always being able to, like, kind of trace the dots between my family gener– my mom’s generation and her family and so my mom was also very politically involved from young. So I remember being in Woodbridge, her political activism was very central to, like, my recollection of my childhood. Um, and so I’ve mentioned the buyout program earlier, and that was something that my mom kind of, like, initiated? We were living in a flood zone in Woodbridge and so she, uh, was not trying to stay. And so after Hurricane Sandy, I think it was the second one, yeah, Hurricane Sandy, we continuously had had problem with flooding in that area, and so she began to organize a buyout, and so she talked to residents and I remember going door to door with her and going to, you know, assembly meetings.
This was kind of like the first time of seeing how a political movement worked, and so I saw her really rally together and create a website. I helped her with, like, it was just, like, interesting to see but my mom was definitely a very formative person in showing me about, like, political engagement on a community level and like, the fact that it requires sort of, like, a door to door, people to people, person to person perspective and approach. And I think seeing that in Woodbridge on, like, a literal scale, like, she literally organized a buyout that the government and the town responded to and then approved and enacted. Seeing that happen and when she got us to Highland Park, I think was really formative to how I just saw our relationship. So yeah, community and town and neighbors. Um, I also think it was my first introduction into, like, resistance and seeing, like, a lot of like, um, lot of the families who didn’t wanna leave, who were kind of like, politically opposed
[00:09:07]
Or seeing how political figures who were sort of, like, kind of, again, stuck in the mindset of like, what the community was supposed to look like, what the town was supposed to look like. The resistance to even allowing people to leave. And so I think, also seeing that, it also shaped how I see New Jersey in general. Like, I’ve never really seen New Jersey as like this “whoa whoa whoa” progressive place. I think New Jersey has always been kind of like, a place for like, home, but I also, I don’t know. Every community that I’ve lived in in New Jersey has kind of been difficult to sort of feel connected to and especially Highland Park. Um, which I can get into as well. But seeing that in Woodbridge was very eye opening and just, like, the fact that, yeah, the town literally didn’t care about the quality of living in our area, but like, if it wasn’t for my mom and the community and like, mothers and parents specifically, like, raising awareness from the bottom up to like, get the town’s attention that we needed to get a buyout and still seeing resistance in that sense? I feel like it just showed me, like, oh yeah, like, this is, you know, “This is a, this is, polit– this is the way politics will work.” And I feel like that was, like, my first orientation to it. Um. So Woodbridge was really influential, definitely, and I feel like that was also when I was homeschooled. So that was a time of like, really kind of being in the home. Um, being, like, connected to what I was interested in, which back then was also journalism, so I was still doing journalism back then and, like, writing about the hurricanes, writing about, like, interviewing people about what was going on. I just remember always being, like, trying to document things and so, uh, I feel like that’s something that I always will remember about Woodbridge specifically is how it kind of forged, you know, forged like a– an awareness of like, what was going on in the town, the community, you know. Uh, and so, let’s see. I guess, maybe I can talk about [pause] Or, no. [chuckles] I feel like I kind of just jumped through a lot there. Is there anything there that you think is, like, interesting that I could expand on, maybe? That was kind of like a surface level from like, yeah, Woodbridge when I was– that was probably 2007. 2006, all the way to now, but like, huge picture. So maybe there’s something that I could specify more?
I mean, do you wanna talk a little bit about the experience– your experience in Highland Park specifically?
Yeah. Um, so in Highland Park, uh. [pause] [inaudible] Uh, so in Highland Park, I– I don’t think I had a very unorthodox experience in Highland Park. Um. [pause] I live in the North side first and foremost which is, uh, three minutes from the high school, which, again, was the first school that I went to.
[00:12:03]
So it was kind of like a lot of new things. Um. Uh. When I went– my experience in Highland Park I would say would be unorthodox only because I mentioned I was there for two years. A lot of people around me, a lot of my friends who I was really close with and still am close with have been there for their entire lives. So I’m coming in in high school at a time where, like, people have already been friends and already knew themselves, other people, so. That was one thing. Um. And also, my experience in Highland Park was kind of cut off. I only spent two years, two full years, like, as a student there. Right? Like, once I went to boarding school, I was only back in Highland Park for breaks. A month here, three months in the summer, a couple weeks there, a couple weeks there, so it’s kind of jagged between, like, 2016 and 20, til now, really. I haven’t spent consistent time in Highland Park since before boarding school. So I think my experience in Highland Park has been very, yeah, very unorthodox. Um. In just the sense that, like, it’s something that I’m still trying to figure out today, like, how I relate to the town and the community. But I will say, Highland Park is very much like my formative place. I think it shaped a lot of, like, how I see myself and again, I think that’s a large part of because of how the community has reflected itself. So by that I mean, like, I feel like Highland Park– when I first came there was a very, like, open and progressive community and like, very diverse school. Like, I remember being friends with like white kids, Black kids, Asian kids, like, Hispanic and Latino, like, you were kind of just, and it was such a small school that you were kind of friends with everybody and it didn’t really, I mean, you know. It was racially grouped and segregated, but, like, for the most part it wasn’t. There was only 90 kids in the grade. You kind of knew everybody. And so, that was definitely really formative to just like, my experience, my understanding of like, the town, and some kind of like, close knit kind of community where being in school, I was able to see everybody every day and like, it was just a very, like, sort of that picturesque school idea, public school idea. Yeah. And, so that was one element. My other element, my other relationship with Highland Park was seeing the town as a whole. I mean, again, going to Highland Park as, like, a new student, was really importan– like, this was the first time I was kind of making my own friends and being out in– in, like, the public world I guess. Away from sort of, like, being in the homeschool environment prior. And, [clears throat] you know, it was fun, it was a really fun place to grow up. We had a lot of, like, fun, I mean, going to New Brunswick and just like, things that kids would do. So I– I think my time in Highland Park was very, like, formative and really rooted in, like, really just calm and casual living. Like, there was never a lot to, like, struggle against or struggle with in Highland Park, at least from my perspective. And, um, I think that would definitely define my two years. I mean, I had a I think, like, for me, honestly a lot of it centers around school, just ‘cause that’s where I was, like, gravitated towards.
[00:14:59]
I loved a lot of my teachers, a lot of my, you know, I quickly got to know everybody in the school, so it was just like, that was like a very foundational part and, like, from there it was kind of like friendships that I formed that was really influential, but I think my experience at Highland Park overall would be, like, colored again by like, honestly just by race in general. I feel like very specifically, I feel like race has very much informed Highland Park. I think it informs it for a lot of people in overt and covert ways. I mean, covertly I think for me was the fact that being in the North side, the only Black family I think in any nearby radius. Uh, I haven’t even– I’ve never– I don’t know if I’ve ever seen another Black family in like the last six, fourteen, twenty-one– seven years in the North Side? Uh. Like, I’d really be hard pressed to name the– the nearest, like, Black neighbor.
So, [laughs] you know. My experience with Highland Park has always been shaped by race, I feel like. And it’s not something that I noticed immediately. When I first moved there, I didn’t realize that the geography of the town. It wasn’t until, like, a couple years in and, honestly, a couple years away from Highland Park that I kind of put pieces together of like, here’s how the town, again, this is when I went back to, like, with segregation and stuff. Like, “Here’s how the town was segregated. Here’s how the town was organized and geographically, like, aligned.” And I think for me as a, like, somebody who’s interested in history and, like, journalism and storytelling and all of that, I was trying to really unravel, like, “Wait. How did things get to this place?” And I still really do want to, like, do a proper, like, investigation into the community’s, like, geography? ‘Cause I think there’s so much that, like, I don’t even understand that most people probably wouldn’t under– [audio cuts out] No recollection of it because it’s never been sort of discussed. But, yeah, I think that was like, that’s one thing that’s just always been foundational to my experience in Highland Park. Being in kind of like an isolated racial geography, you know. I’ve had great relationships with my neighbors. A lot of my friends lived on the North Side, so, like, I was able to, you know, and it– and it’s such a small town that like, again, being in high school is like, “Oh, yeah, I’m right here down the street.” But like pretty much ten minutes away from everybody, on bike or walking. So it was, like, it never really felt isolated until I think I left and then I came back and I’m like, “Wait, all my friends are not around me. Honestly, none of my friends are around me. Like, why– where am I, like, in the town?” So that was very important up to like, shaping, uh, my approach and vantage point of the town. I also think seeing dynamics in the school was really important, too, to like my experience at Highland Park. I saw like, a lot of, um, like I said. Highland Park was definitely a very segregated school system undoubtedly. Segregated in like, in– in– segregated in like a self segregated sense, to just, like, kids of different, of similar backgrounds hung out with each other, as is the case in the entire world. So that never surprised me. But segregated also in the sense of, like, how the school system was structured, and I feel like, again, my experience with Highland Park is really dominated by the school. That’s honestly the one reason that I can talk about it.
[00:18:03]
But, like, you know, being in Honors classes. I wasn’t even in a lot of Honors classes. A lot of people were, you know, APs and I was in Honors English and I think Honors Math one year. And you just notice, like, how segregated the school system is. When you see, right, like, the class and the tier system and the tracking within the schools. That was something that like, my mom had kind of introduced me to just the tracking, the idea of tracking. My mom’s an educator, so she– she was already familiar with it, but it was just eye opening for me to see on, like, the literal scale. Like, I would walk into certain classrooms dependent on, like, whether they were college prep or honors or AP and you can already sort of racially, like, uh, anticipate what the classroom might look like. And you can also anticipate, like, where you would go next based off what you had been put into the previous year. So if you were honors students for middle school, you were probably going to be in honors classes through high school and maybe in AP. If you were an AP student– you know what I’m saying? It was very tiered and it was– that was honestly one of the things that I think really was eye opening and also just the way that that, I think, informed a lot of the school’s, like, trajectories? I mean, I definitely think a lot about how my time at Highland Park High School was, again, cut short, so I was only there for two years, but you just realize, like, how students are sort of seen and assumed to be in their, like, their– their potentials are assumed to be based off of, like, academic placement. And there wasn’t, and I remember talking about this when I was in high school like, with a lot of my teachers being like, there– there wasn’t any program to really elevate you. If you were in CP and a college prep class and you were trying to get to an honors level class, which a lot of students needed for college or whatever, like, there were no academic skills or enrichment for students like if, and, you know, I think that’s so important. I mean, like, I wasn’t a great science student, but there wasn’t a lot of opportunities for me to even get better at it unless I, you know, applied myself or went outside of the classroom.
And so, I think that was something that also was really important. Like, the segregation from the schools, um, and I’m– and I’m specifying the schools because I think in Highland Park, like, my experience has shown me that the schools are probably the most important, like, institution? In the town. Obviously, it’s probably the case everywhere, but, like, the school system especially, you see, like, everybody’s in the same school system, so it’s like you notice that there’s differences in, um, in how people get, like, everybody’s in the same school system, so why is it that some students are in CP level in high school, and some students are honors, some, like, it’s not like– there’s not a lot of, like, arrivals halfway through, right? Most people are there at the same time, you know? You see your friends from [inaudible] through the high school. So the fact that you notice, like, when you get to the high school level, like, these discrepancies, and they’re very racialized, it’s like, “Wait. What is going on at the prior level so again.” I think for me, it was just, like, very eye opening to notice that this town, uh, had a school system that was as stratified as specifically as it was.
[00:21:05]
I also noticed that in, like, a lot of the clubs I was participating in, when I was in high school, I was in Model UN which was a really big club.
[Editor’s Note: Model United Nations is a simulation of the UN General Assembly and its other multilateral bodies, where students perform an ambassador role while debating topics such as gender equality, climate action, and global health. Students who participate in this extracurricular are given the opportunity to discuss real-world issues as mock-diplomats in a debate format. Sixty percent of its participants are under the age of 26, with a large subsect being high school students.]
Um. I think that’s pretty much it. That’s pretty much all I did in high school besides, like, the newspaper. The newspaper itself as well. A lot of these clubs were really, I don’t know. They were– they were dope. I mean, we had a lot of really great after school extracurricular activities but they weren’t– a lot of them I think struggled to get Black and brown students involved honestly. I mean, most of the clubs were dominated by white and Asian students. And, you know, in Model UN, I was probably– during my time in Model UN I was only the Black kid there. [audio cuts out] There were a couple of students of color, like, brown and Black, but, like, yeah, definitely the only Black students there. I remember, like, when I left there was another student that came, and I think, like, now there is definitely more. But it’s interesting to notice those things when you’re, like, removed from it? Because in the moment you’re kind of just like, “Oh yeah, I’m going to Model UN right now,” and it’s like. I don’t know. There wasn’t like, a lot of, it wasn’t a bad thing, it was just, like, that was just the way. It was, things were very normalized and naturalized. So that’s something that I also noticed, that like, a lot of the– a lot of the school was, it was just a very segregated environment, and I don’t know, I don’t– I don’t ever blame students for that. I’ve never, like, looked at my friends and been like, “y’all should be more involved,” but it was always to me a reflection of structural school dynamics and also the town, and like, a lot of the dynamics that have been encoded into how you were supposed to progress through the school system. Which is, again, a reflection of, like, the– the town as a whole and what the town was structured on.
And so, I don’t know. I think, yeah. I’m centering it a lot around the school just ‘cause that’s, like, I think was– that to me was the gateway into understanding the town as a whole. Um. Also, discipline was really important, too. I remember, like, I was never really disciplined like that, but I definitely remember going to detention many a time and seeing, like, a lot of the same kids there. And it’s just interesting to notice these things. Again, like. In the moment, also recognizing, like, the time that we were in was again, 2014 to 2015. Like, huge Black Lives Matter was kind of erupting and like, Trayvon Martin was being killed and Michael Brown was being killed and protests are happening and so, like, I think for a lot of students, there was already, like. We obviously knew what was going on. Um. It was just interesting. There was no space to really discuss it within the school. And there was no opportunity to do so. I also remember thinking about, like my teachers, my teachers. The teacher force at Highland Park high school. I mean, I love all the Black teachers that were there, but there were so few of them that it’s like, you only had, like, two or three in the high school, maybe one or two in the middle school. And so, yeah, I don’t know. I think– I think a lot of Highland Park has been shaped by, unfortunately, by race for me. Also just because I came at such a time where like, I didn’t have any other introduction to it. I was kind of just, this is just the way I was thrown into the community. Like, it was, um, something that you just kind of pick up on and you notice, and again, being away from the town physically I think has helped me to just, like, obviously? Like, whoa!
[00:24:10]
What was going on? Like, why did I– how did it get that way? So all of this I’m saying is like, kind of like, precipitating 2020. I feel like the 2020 summer and, like, my experience in the town during that time was– and like 2019 or 2018 when things were happening, like. A lot of that was like, I wasn’t surprised you know? And then, and so I’ve always kind of– and this is another tangent of this is, like, the policing system. That’s a whole ‘nother conversation to get into, but I always remember the police being, like, kind of just, an extension of, like, this– these racial identities that I’ve been talking about in the sense that, like, I remember friends, you know, describing how like back in middle school, they couldn’t– they would walk back from practice and the police would follow them or like, going to parties and like, the police would only question or discuss or like, you know, hold onto it or talk to like Black people that were going, Black students that were going. So, like, I always knew that the police, um, in Highland Park specifically was like another element of the problem? Like, I’ve never been non– I’ve never been convinced otherwise, basically. [chuckles] And, again, this is from day one, like, uh. I remember, like, yeah, I remember like, a really eye-opening story was like, one of my friends, they went to a party and I’m trying to remember their story, but, like, he was just talking about how, like, um, you know, a bunch of them were like, kind of questioned by the police after the fact, but only like, the Black kids. One of my– one of my friends, only he was questioned by the police, but the other ones, the other students were able to like, go freely and like, leave the party. So it’s just like, things like that that are like, oh, like, you know, as a kid it’s just like whatever, it’s kind of harmless. But, like, I remember kids talking about it like, “Yeah, that’s kind of messed up.”
In the moment, and I think that’s my recollection of it. I remember, like, yeah, I remember a lot of that, so. I also add, I’m kind of like meandering, but one of the things that I would say is really influential is, um, my time with Ashton. Uh, he had a mentorship program, Ashton’s, I remember the community went to Highland Park high school. I remember, like, he came to the school once to talk. That’s probably the first time I, uh, heard from him. But I– he also had a mentorship program that a lot of, like, the Black students were involved in. They had been involved in for a minute, so when I got there I kind of got involved pre– probably within my first year. And that was really important, his program was like a way for us to just get, kind of just decompress within Highland Park. Like, a lot of had, you know, gone through the school together, so we– we already knew each other, but it was just like a– a mentorship program but it was more so to just like a friendship kind of like bonding experience for us. Like, it was a couple hours every week to just get together, eat pizza, talk. Um, there was guest speakers that came. A lot of the speakers, honestly I still keep in contact with so that was another influential part of my experience at Highland Park. Having, like, a mentor that, from like age 14 and 15 and all throughout. Whenever I would come back, I would visit.
[00:27:01]
Um, and now he has like a whole center in the south side, um, of Highland Park which is really dope and it’s helping a lot. But it’s like– but it’s– I mention that because like, a lot of the– a lot of the experiences that I feel like that I had were like, uh, formed in different silos of the town, like, so, again, it’s like. You just get different– it was a very isolating environment in some sense. Like, kids, we all hung out with each other but, like. In the sense of enrichment and, like, next steps and, like, things that you do outside of this physical school, like, it was pretty– Siloed and it was pretty separate. And so I feel like as a student trying to just get involved, like, I wasn’t, I didn’t, so I just don’t remember, like, a lot of like why I got involved in different things? But it was kind of like, “Oh, this exists? Let me do this. That exists? Let me do that.” And so for me it was like a little bit more, like, “Yeah, let me try Model UN. Let me try these new things.” Um. But I definitely think, like, a lot of the school system and a lot of the town was based on, like, seniority and, like, being there for a long time and I guess it’s just a routine. And like, um, almost like a preset or a stencil that happens. And, yeah, I mean, I remember, and there’s so many things that happened. But like, I remember, like, um, kind of getting involved more in this as well with like, a film making project that John Hughes, he’s a filmmaker who lives in town. He started the, like, Highland Park History Project and I remember interviewing people for that.
[Editor’s Note: The Highland Park African American History Project, led by John Hulme, was a project undertaken by Hulme and several Highland Park High School students. This project sought to collect an oral history through interviews, film, photography and other forms of media of the African American experience in Highland Park. The project also focused on topics such as the desegregation of the Highland Park elementary schools in 1979.]
And being able to talk to people who were like, two generations above kind of like, putting together the dots, like, oh, like, “this is something that John went through as well.” It was really eye opening. Um, also learning more about Highland Park’s African American history was really important, like. The fact that it’s a very historical site, like a location for a lot of Black families and like, there was a lot of, like, history within Highland Park. Um. That would– as contained in a bunch of really influential families whose, like, descendants still go to the schools and like, are still in town and like, there’s a really rich history in Highland Park. It’s just, really, again, like a very– It’s very– it’s a very interesting community, ‘cause it’s just like, there’s a lot there. It’s not like a dynamic, it’s like a microcosm of everything. And I think, again, I can speak to some things but I really am also in the dark about a lot of other things as well. But, yeah, I mean, it’s a lot to like. Shape. But I think my school, my experiences in the school was really, like, formative to how I saw the town as a whole. Um. And then I can speak to one– the one experience that I definitely like, on a personal level that I– that I– I had with, I don't know if I, maybe I talked about this last time. But I think you asked, like, the police, uh, last time and like, my experience with them, just being profiled, like, walking into my own home. That was a really eye opening experience for me, but again, it– it wasn’t– it wasn’t something that, like, went against what I had understood about the community, and I think that was part of the reason why, like, in the aftermath of it I wasn’t really– I was kind of numb to what had happened. It was just, like, it was odd. It was surprising but it was, like, not really surprising because, again, everything that I had heard about the police conveyed that this is something that they were capable of.
[00:30:11]
So it wasn’t even like, “Oh my God.” It was more so just like, “damn.” Um. Hm. Yeah, I think that was like, a really found– you know, formative relationship to– to the town, but that again happened when I was at boarding school so again, a couple days later I was back at, in Massachusetts and I was kind of disconnected from the aftermath, but, it was so many friends that kind of spoke up on my behalf and, like, were really questioning the mayor and the– and the town about like what had happened in that situation, that, and I think, I speak about– I mention that because I think that, like, kind of sums– sums up everything, like, a lot of it, my– my great relationships and– and memories have to do with like, the young people and the kids and students that were involved. Like, lot of us really, you know, it was just a cool, it was a lot of– it was– it was like, cool, cool environment to grow up in. As kids, just, you kind of just had each other's backs in a larger sense and we kind of understood, yeah, I don’t know. I guess we were just try– trying to navigate the same thing at the same time from different perspectives so, like, it was cool to know that like, I had, you know, friends and everybody who was able to support. But it’s like, yeah, it’s like, they’re supporting, they’re go– they’re antagonistic towards the community that we were all raised in, which is wild. They, like, we in many sense were trying to confront a town’s town about their true nature in a way that a lot of the political figures or a lot of like, the– the people in charge broadly weren’t willing to acknowledge about the town and their history and, like, the dynamics of it, so. Like, that’s really a microcosm of, like, how I experienced Highland Park. Like, a lot of support, a lot of friendships, a lot of really, like, relationships and bonds that I had a chance to build. But it’s like, such a, it was a really weird place to grow up in and a lot of the dynamics of it were really, like, fascinating to kind of like, unpack later after the fact. Um. Yeah! I mean. I don’t know. There’s a lot there. [chuckles] But, yeah. [pause] [inaudible] Do you have any other, like, comments on what I just mentioned?
Yeah, um, Amiri, uh, do you remember any of the details of that incident that you would want to share?
Yeah, I mean–
[overlapping] Sort of, what were you doing, what was the context, why did– to your understanding, why did it happen?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can definitely, like, talk about it. I mean. [chuckles] Speaking of the high school, I was, um, like I said, I was, you know, when I would come on break, I would be only there for a couple days or maybe a week at most from boarding school, so I would, like, try to visit the high school. This is while I was still in high school, so it was probably, like, I wanna say the year before my senior year and my junior year? I don’t remember exactly.
[00:33:01]
I don’t remember exactly what year it was but I think it was 2018, so I think that was like, the year, my senior year. I was just about to turn 18. Or maybe I was just had turned 18. Regard– I think it was. I think it was right after I turned 18. I was home on spring break and, um, I just visited the high school. I literally visited some of the teachers that I, you know, was close with and some of my friends, so. Ah, like I said, I lived, like, three minutes away from the school. So I was kind of walking back, same route I’ve always walked every day. You know what I’m saying? You know, it was a very routine day. It was 3 o’clock. School gets out at 2:40, so I was probably there at 3 o’clock. And I was walking back to my, um, my home and, uh, I take pictures. I’m a photographer, so, you know, I just take pictures of whatever. So I had like a disposable camera that I was, like, carrying around for the week or whatever to just take pictures for fun. And like, I get to the intersection of my street. Like, my house is on the corner? Before I turn onto the corner to get to my house, I, like, took a picture of the two street signs. Like, and it’s like, fitting, the trees in the background just ‘cause I was like– I– it caught my eye, like, the sky was nice. I– it was just a regular, I don’t even remember really why I took the picture, but like, I just liked what it looked like! I took the picture. Took the photo, turned around, made a right, walked across the street into my house. Um. And again, this is like 3 o’clock so there’s nobody outside. I’m in the middle of the street taking this photo. I’m pretty clearly, like, taking, taking a regular– I don’t know, it’s just a regular day. Um. But, this is the afternoon time when again, there’s not a lot of people out, school is just getting out, so. Yeah, so I walk into my house and kind of go, like, into the back of the house, like, to the kitchen area, open the fridge, like, turn around, go back to the dining room. And then through, like, the front windows of the– of our house, which has, like, two, three windows that you can see out the front, like, I see like three or four police cars. And, um, interesting thing is like, again, being on the North side, you don’t really see police cars like that. You’ll see police cars maybe driving to and from, but, and sometimes you’ll see them, like, sitting in certain areas where they know, like, people won’t– will run a stop light or a stop sign. But you don’t really see the police and you never really see them in front of, like, a house. So the fact that they were right there, I was like, “Okay, that’s a little abnormal but, I mean, it’s a regular day. Maybe they’re just there for some reason.” But again, this is happening, this is maybe, like, thirty seconds had passed between the time I walked in and the time that I turned around and noticed them through my front window. I didn’t really think much of it. Like, again, I’m kind of like confused. So I remember, like, just walking towards the window to kind of see what’s going on. I know there’s a lot of officers were out now getting out of the car. And I also noticed officers running around the sides of our house. Um. So I saw people, like, running into our backyard. I turn around and, you know, because of the way the windows are placed, I can kind of like, see people as they walk, but I couldn’t really understand what was going on. So I’m, like, kind of confused at this point, but I’m also pretty clueless in the sense that like, I’m not really assuming anything. I’m like, “Okay, maybe something’s happening that I’m not aware of, but like. Obviously it has nothing to do with me!” So I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on.
[00:36:03]
And at this point, more cars come in. I think, like, I don’t know the exact total. I was– I can’t remember. But it was definitely at least like four to five police cars and probably like six or seven officers that were out. And again, on both sides of my house, like, streaming on both sides. And so by this point, my mom is in, uh, either upstairs or in the attic where she works, and so she comes down and at the same time, I come down to the front door. Mind you, this is all happening probably within forty-five seconds. All these cars have been mobilized. All these officers have been streaming around the house, so, my mama comes down. Um. Confused, like, “What’s going on?” I’m like, “Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on.” We both get to the front door pretty much the same time. Opens the door. There’s an officer there and he’s asking like, “Hi,” uh, and so I always get mixed up at this part ‘cause I forget exactly what he would say. I feel like my mom would definitely remember more specifically. ‘Cause at this point I’m trying– trying to figure out what’s going on. But he basically says like, “There’s been a lot of– there’s been a report of burglary in the area, and,” um, “we have a reason to believe,” like, “somebody just attempted to burglarize your home. Somebody just walked into your home.” Now, mind you, again, I was the only one that walked in. I’m the most recent person into the house. My mom, however, kind of– so I’m kind of like, “Oh, no, that’s, that’s not the case.” Like, “I would have seen somebody if they came in.” Like, you know, “we’re good.” My mom is kind of a little bit quicker with that. She picked up, like, “What do you mean? This is my son. Are you talking about him?” And, um, you know. It’s pretty clear that the police, uh, saw me walk into the house and assume I’m burglarizing the home, or was about to attempt a burglary and hence the reason for all of the officers. And so my mom is kind of pressing them, like, “This is my son. This is where we live.” And then at this point, I’m also like, “Yeah, I live here. Like, this is my home, I was walking into my home. This is where I live.” Um. And at this point, the police begin to realize, like, what was actually the case, like, this is my house. And so they start to, sort of backpedal and say, “Okay, I’m so–” You know. “So sorry.” They leave. Uh. And that was pretty much it. There was no real apology for the situation as a whole. It was more so just like, “Oh, we made a mistake.” Like, “This is,” like. I think they recognize that they made a mistake and then they left. There was no, like, apology or recognition of like, uh, what, the overall situation that they had created basically with six cars and six offic– and, I’m, again, the number I’m not specific on, but like, I’m just trying to create it, like, a sense that like, there was a lot of officers. Like, it was me. I’m 5’11” and 140, 150 whatever pounds. It’s pretty clearly, like, a advanced mobilization in a very short amount of time. So my mom closes the door. She’s very confused, right? And also just like, kind of more upset than I was. I was just like “Alright, whatever, that was weird.” You know. My mom is pretty active and so she went to Facebook and was like, “This is what happened.” Um. “This is not okay.” You know, like, “My son does not fit the description of a burglar.” Like.
[00:39:10]
“This is our home. We’ve lived here for,” you know. “Three, four years.” Um. “Only black people in the town, like, if you, in this area, you know, you pretty much know who I am.” Um. And so from there it kind of just, kind of just blew up in a sense, like. My mom’s a member of the Board of Education so she had a lot of friends who were, you know, already plugged into, like, Highland Park and so the issue became a lot bigger than, uh, I anticipated it to be. But it, rightly so! I mean, kind of backtrack, we learn later after the fact that the police had, again, there were multiple people in our backyard, right? So they were circling our house. Um. And then they also, the neighbor to the right of us had saw that one of the officers had a– had a weapon on him. After the fact, we also learned that, like, they accused me of running into the home, which never happened. My mom, I remember my mom asking, like, “Did you run into the house?” I was like, “Bruh, why would I run?” Like, “No, I would never,” you know? Maybe I skipped up the stairs, like, quick into the front door, but I never ran into the home. And so we learn that they’re lying about the situation. We also learn that they were trying to, like, kind of like, cover it up? That, like, that, you know, this is something that was a burglary, like there was a larger investigation going on. But if that’s the case, we never heard about that as residents. There had been no indication that there was a burglary problem. I hadn’t heard of any, like, burglars, like, in the area. If it was a genuine problem, there was no information for residents like us, or to any of our neighbors about the situation, so.
[00:40:42]
It was just, like, clear that there were discrepancies on multiple levels, and there was no accountability. The mayor didn’t– wasn’t accountable to it. Not only in the moment, but also, like, after the fact, it took a lot for them to admit it, And I don’t even know if they did admit. Like, on their own volition that like, it was profiling. There was never accountability for the police. The police that were there on the scene, but also like, overall. And so, like, the whole situation was just, like, you know. It was a violent situation that could have gone a lot worse. I think, like, the thing for me that, like, I think back a lot to is just like if my mom wasn’t there to sort of intervene? You know, they would have never believed me, ‘cause I’m the suspect in the situation. Like, you know, I’m the only one in the house! My mom is maybe upstairs. My brother’s probably weren’t there, maybe they’re upstairs, too. So they probably thought they would have been in on it. It’s just, like, it was a situation that kind of could have compiled and there was no ability for us to defuse the situation that had already been ex– exacerbated. Again, I kid you not, it’s several officers in our front yard, several officers behind the house, several officers in the car, and a number of police cars. So it’s just like, the situation, even if it was a situation of burglary, the response to it was so overly, like, over, uh, I don’t even know. So, so, so overly emphasized that like, it created a very– it was just a very clear, like, moment of, um, police, like, over policing. [chuckles] Literally.
[00:42:15]
Over policing a town that has no other use for the police than to, like. [audio cuts out] So. Yeah, I mean, after the fact–
Amiri, you, you cut out there, I’m sorry. What, what was that last thing you said?
Oh, I’m sorry. It was like, no use for the police other than to, like, profile a kid walking into his own home pretty much. Um, but, right, the police don’t do a lot in Highland Park as is. There’s not a lot of, like, things happening in Highland Park. So, like, the fact that they were able to mobilize that quickly about something that, like, could have turned sour? You know what I’m saying, like, if my mom wasn’t there? It’s just, like, it was just a lot of discrepancies from top to bottom.
And so my mom, again, was very active and adamant about it, and so for that reason only it became a larger thing and, again, there was a town meeting, like, the next week that I wasn’t able to make because I had to go right back to school. So I was kind of tapped out of what was happening in town. Like, once I went back to school, you know, I heard, like, people were, you know, reaching out, like, “Oh, I’m so sorry this happened,” but, like, I wasn’t really connected to like what was going on after, being, like, what the conversations were but this moment, I think was something the police couldn’t really avoid or the town couldn’t really avoid ‘cause my mom was, yeah, like, pretty vocal about it and, like, pretty adamant that, like, this is something that we, A., like to understand what the situation was like. Why were the officers there? But also, like, you need to be accountable to profiling, like, say the words physically. And again, there was always, there was so much hesitance from the town’s, like, uh, government and just, like, the mayor not wanting to call it profiling and the police not wanting to be accountable.
Um, that, like, it was a very drawn out situation? And I know a lot of people in the town got involved as well and like, were getting supportive. But I’m sure it wasn’t all supportive as well. Like, there was, you know, we had neighbors who show their support and neighbors who didn’t in various ways. So it was just, like, very, again, eye opening, and, um. I don’t know, I mean. It was such a weird situation because it didn’t really get any further, fortunately, but like, it could have, and then you know. But also for me, like, what was really important is, like, connecting that situation to a lot of the other profiling that I, again, I mentioned earlier, but like, I knew was already present within the town. Um, not only with some of my friends in high school but just like, other experiences in Middlesex County as a whole, just, understanding, like, the racial profiling that was imbedded in a lot of these police departments from their inception, but like, still present to the day and so, like, it was never surprising to me and it also wasn’t surprising because, like, it was just more so, like, unfortunate that it took a situation of that magnitude to really generate a larger conversation around community, but like, you know what I’m saying? This happens daily, like, people are daily profiled.
[00:45:02]
And I think it was powerful to see, but like, again, it was disheartening to just be like, so it took this kind of situation, this overt situation for y’all to be like, begin to even discuss it, and also it took the situation to coax out of you a recognition of profiling, like. Um. Yeah, I mean, I think there’s never– that’s something that I really always wanted to do, kind of like, unpack what happened in that situation? Like, really go through and, like, document how the town responded and like, read some, like, write out some of their responses, like what my friends were saying at the town meeting and just, like, put together a piece that kind of highlights, like, what happened because, I don’t know. It was a lot of like, a lot of– it was a lot of like, again, like, dismissiveness from the town as a whole, but also a lot of support from people who either knew me or like had known that this was something that was possible and like, yeah!
[Editor’s Note: Read about Amiri’s experience with racial profiling here. As a result of Amiri’s experience, Highland Park residents called for independent oversight and brought their requests to the mayor and town council.]
I don’t know. Again, like, I wasn’t there for a lot of the aftermath, so a lot of this was just things that I heard and then saw online, but, like, yeah it was just a really wild situation, um. Yeah. Also, this happened to, like, one of my friends as well, like, a couple of years later, profiling. So it was never something that, like, was surprising. It was more so just like, “Oh, this happens to me and this could have gone worse as well.” [pause] Yeah, um. [pause] [coughs] [sneeze] All this, yeah. Anything else? Like. That I can expand on there, maybe?
Yeah, uh, I mean, if you’re– if you’re open, I’d love to hear a little bit about your relationship to your parents and your sibling or siblings and, uh, I guess a little bit more about what it was like growing up? What was it like being homeschooled? Those kinds of things as well.
Yeah, definitely. So I have three siblings. Uh. [clears throat] And, uh, yeah, we grew up pretty much always together. Um, one of my sibling, my older brother’s on my dad’s side so he was– he was raised on [inaudible], New York, mostly, but he would always, like, be with us in Woodbridge and New Jersey, so. The three of us who lived together, like, in our family’s home, like, my mom and my dad, we were homeschooled together. Um. And homeschooling was definitely, like, a really– I don’t know. It was just a very, like, formative experience if only because, like, it just forced– it was just so different and so, like, it felt more independent than anything. It was just kind of like, it– it– it was just a way for us to, like, really be in our own, like, uh, in our own, like, space I guess? And like, I think that’s something my mom encouraged. Like, so, like to fully fully backtrack. Again, like, my mom is an educator.
[00:48:10]
My dad is, when we were younger, he was working in, like, technology and now he’s working at Amazon. Like, he’s kind of jack of all trades. My mom is like a career lifelong educator but like, so when we were in Woodbridge at first, like, I was there at school and me and my brother were there in like, kindergarten or first grade or whatever and I remember that she was saying that like, you know, being a teacher, she could recognize, like, I guess that the school system wasn’t where she wanted it to be or that, like, there were kind of– there were students being lost in the cracks of the school and that, there just wasn’t a lot of resources there, like. She wasn’t– she didn’t want us to be in that school environment, and so she pulled us out and started homeschooling us.
Yeah, my mom is working full time, she’s a teacher, like. My dad was working full time, he was working the night shift. So, like, the move to homeschooling, I don’t know how, like, premeditated it was or like, you know, sometimes I know people are like, “Alright, we’re gonna raise our children to be homeschooled.” I think my parents, like, kind of had to do that because of the situation that they saw, but also, like, just because they knew, or my mom at least specifically knew that, like, she had– she had a, like, she was interested in, you know, education. She was already interested in education, so like, for her it was just like, more so like “let me just do it myself,” or “let me create an environment for my, for my kids to be educated outside of the school system.” And, uh, I mean, I don’t know. I think homeschooling is so formative, it’s such a huge part of my life. It was the first fourteen years, pretty much. Again, probably, between 1st grade and 9th grade, so I guess eight, nine years homeschooling. But, um, but it was important because it, I don’t know. It just helped us to pursue our own interests, I guess? And just be in an environment where we didn’t have to, like, do testing or do essays. We weren’t doing worksheets in, like, a traditional sense. But we also were doing things that, like, every other student was doing. So we were doing math, we were doing English, we were doing science. So it was like, I don’t know. At the same time it was as different, it was also pretty much the same. It was just a little bit less rigid as the school system. Um. And so, growing up, a lot of– a lot of what me and my brothers did was kind of just collaborative during the day? Like, my, again, my dad worked the night shift pretty much our entire childhood. So when we were homeschooled, he was always sleeping or when he would wake up, right, it would be colab, more work, and then he would help us here and there, cook lunch for us. But he was, you know, pretty much our day instructor. He was there during the day when he wasn’t sleeping or catching up on sleep. And so a lot of what we did was kind of independent. Uh, my mom was working during the day, so she would be out of the house. She would leave us, basically like, a day routine would be, like, she would write a couple things for us to do in specific notebooks that she had for us? Like, a notebook she would write, you know, uh, like, “Complete pages 35–70, 335–40 of the math textbook.” Like, “Do the exercises and then read this newspaper article and write a summary about it and then go outside and do this,” like, “science experiment.”
[00:51:04]
I don’t know, it was, like, this is a random sampling. But, like, it would be things like that. She would basically come up with specific assignments for us each day and that wasn't really a curriculum that she followed specifically. It was more so just like what we were interested in. I’ve always been interested in journalism and, like, writing, so she would always connect us newspapers for me. Like, I remember always reading, like the newspaper was an assignment that I had to, you know, engage with or write an article about this or research this and write a blog post about it. So it was more so, like, she had a lot of flexibility. We had a lot of flexibility in what we were able to do. And so we would do that during the day, right? From, like, I don’t know. Whenever we’d wake up to whenever we’d finish, pretty much. Come back, check our work, and go over what it was. That was pretty much it. And again, during the day my dad, well, when he was awake, he would help us, like, so he was the one who was, kind of like, doing the actual day teaching. But again, neither of my parents were, like, you know, my mom was a trained teacher, but she wasn’t teaching us in like a, writing on the board kind of sense. So a lot of our work was pretty much, yeah. I mean, even when I think back to it, a lot of it was pretty much just us as kids kind, like, doing what we– what we were interested in and like, connecting that to like, academic, um, framework, so. Yeah! I mean, that was, again, for a large part of our childhood. I mean, my youngest brother never went to school until middle school, so he was homeschooled pretty much his entire school experience. I had been in school for like a year before I was pulled out. Maybe two years. My brother for a year. And so I’m the oldest of us, of us three. So they were all younger than me. So yeah, I think, like, it was super important. Um. One of the other things that was really, really fundamental and, like, formative to homeschooling for us was like, my mom has started a co–op. My mom and my dad and a bunch of my other family have started a homeschool family. The Middlesex County has started a co–op, a homeschool co–op for us which was basically like an enrichment. It was called Grand– uh, what was it called? It was called, like, “Grand Conversations: Homeschool Co–Op” or something. And it was basically just like a group of, like, maybe ten or twenty families, um, some big families, some small. You know, one kid from a family or all five of the kids. In our case, it was all three of us. Other family– you know, so it was like, a lot of different families from Central Jersey, basically, that kind of started and from there we branched out to creating a whole home school, like, enrichment program where we had, like, every week there would be classes, basically, that students could take. Um. I don’t know how to best describe it. Basically, like, it started when my mom, you know. She would send us to the public library in Woodridge to kind of, during the day we would go there and do our work and sit there and read and stuff. Just to get out of the house sometimes. So there was other homeschool families we noticed, like, their kids were there too! And we were like “Wait, why y’all kids there?” They were homeschool, too. So they were doing the same thing. Um. And my mom started to talk to them and a couple other families that we noticed ‘cause surprisingly there’s a lot of Woodridge, like, they were from Iselin, I think.
[00:54:02]
So, like, it was just all Central Jersey area, Middlesex County. So a lot of them started putting their heads together and they started it! They just pretty much were like, “Hey,” like, “all our kids are homeschooled, let’s just do a little program together,” so. It started as like, my mom would do, like, uh, kind of like, book clubs with us and we would have, like, reading groups, discussions. And then, some other, you know, the other families, uh, was an Egyptian family, actually. So her parent– their parents taught, like, Arabic for us. Um, some other families who, some dad was really good at math so he would teach math. My dad did yoga, like. It was very just, like, [chuckles] very, like collage-like. But it was really cool! I mean, I think back to it and I’m like, “Wow, this is dope!” It was really like, you know, fam– it was kind of like, whatever you were able to do as a teacher or like, an adult, was pretty much just added to the mix. Um. You know, some– sometimes we would do field trips and so some parents would be the ones, like, who chaperoning and like, we would do– it was just like a very, yeah, it was homeschooling with a collective, basically. So those are definitely, like, some of my formative memories. And so, all of my broth– you know, my brothers and I were really involved with just, like, a lot of the kids. I mean, it was, you know, maybe fifteen, nah. Maybe like thirty or forty kids would come each week. It started really small and then it started to get bigger. Like, I remember, like, new families coming every couple of months. Um, but yeah, it was really cool. I mean, again, some of the– we had, like, cartooning classes and we had, like, calligraphy. We had– we had like a LEGO little workshop, uh. They added an– at first once a week but then they added a second addendum to it ‘cause there was so much interest in it from us, so just, they started doing like a, yeah, again, like a math, like, tournament thing. I used to hate, but, like, we had to do it. [chuckles] Um. We had– my mom did, like, the literature. We had, like, a play with a parent who was really interested in theater, so she helped us with a play. You know, we were– it was based out of a community center in Edison, so we would go there every week. So they had, like, a bunch of little mini-rooms and kind of spend some time in one room, one class, then we would switch. It was kind of like a little school but, more, yeah, more, um, adult and family led. We would have, like, time to go outside. There was– there was a parent who was like a biologist or something so we would do like– we would go to the– the for– there was a little wooded area nearby so we would go out there and kind of talk about the plant life and the foliage and all of that, so. It was very, it was very info–infor–informative, but also free enough to the point where it was like, really, like, powerful and allowed, I think, a lot of us to kind of just be able to do what we wanted. Um, and I also think it helped provide a bit of a structure. Like, one parent can’t homeschool, you know, a kid at all, like, you need a whole structure to do that, and so it’s really important for a lot of families who maybe didn’t have the homeschooling background, like, or wasn’t an educator like my mom or, like, who didn’t have the time. You could drop your kid off on Mondays or, I think it was Mondays and Fridays, I think we did. Drop your kid off on Mondays.
[00:57:00]
And you knew, from, like, 9 to 4 or whatever, like, they would be doing activities variously, so. That was really important to homeschooling and, like, um, you know. Me and my brothers, kind of like, at home, we were always finding new things to do. Like, we were doing, like, coding one day and then we would mess with videos and photography another day. And so, I think, like, that was really important for us together to just, like, try things and do things and like, not saying that you can’t do that in the school system, I mean, but, you know what I’m saying? Like, being in school is really beautiful, like, I loved being in school and when I went to public school and high school. It’s just funny to notice the like, um, notice some of like, the freedom and creative freedom I think that we had during homeschooling that my mom was able to tap into and like, appreciate. I definitely appreciate that a lot. I think that was super formative. Um. And also the fact that both of my parents were pretty involved in it. All of the families were involved in it, right? Just from different perspectives, what they were capable of, so. Yeah! I mean. [pause] Yeah, I mean, homeschooling is so– was so important. Uh. I think about it pretty regularly, just how it shaped me and like, what it helped me with, and also, like, I think there’s a lot of, like, uh. There’s a lot of, like, New Jersey specific homeschooling that, like, is really taking off and, like, just, I mean, the pandemic obviously. But this is, like, there’s a lot there. There’s a lot, like, there’s a lot there that I feel, like, uh, is really cool and, like, interesting for a lot of young people. I mean, a lot of the families kept homeschooling through, like, college, like, until, through high school, basically, leading up to college, like, you know. And, um, so there’s just a lot there, but. Yeah, that was super important in our family. [pause] So we’re pretty much all in Jersey, yeah. Or Middlesex County. [pause] Yeah. Um. [pause] Otherwise, yeah, growing up was pretty, you know. Pretty nor– I mean, my dad is Jamaican, my mom is again, like, from New Jersey, so I had a lot of, like, Caribbean or Jamaican, like, I remember a lot of, like, memories with just going to like, my Jamaican family and, like, being there with, you know, Caribbean side of things, and then, also, like being connected to, like, Black American history on my mom’s side, so, like. Very fortunate to have, like, a lot of cultural, uh, rootedness I guess in like, both of those areas? Both of those backgrounds. Um. And so growing up was just always, always something going on. We did a ton of sports. We did a ton of, like, activities. My mom was always tryin’ to get us out of the house, so like. I [inaudible] really remember being really very active as a kid and just like, always doing something or like, trying to do something and, uh. My– my parents and all my family, I mean, my aunt, my grandma, my cousin, all of us were pretty active and just trying to get us out and about.
[00:59:59]
And, yeah, I think that was definitely really important. I mean, yeah. Funny thing about it, ‘cause a lot of it I haven’t really thought about actively a lot, but like, yeah, that was definitely, like, a sliver of what was going on. [chuckles, inaudible] Yeah. Trying to think if there’s anything else I can add there. [chuckles] I don’t know. Is there anything there that was interesting that I can parse out more.
Yeah I mean you– you mentioned, uh, the presence of a number of formative adults, whether it was at school or at home or in the community. Do you want to talk more about any of them?
Yeah, definitely! Um. I mean, my aunt was super, super informative– uh, formative. My aunt would also help us a lot with homeschooling. My aunt was really– my aunt was really just vital to a lot of our, like, expressiveness as kids. Being, um, you know, ah, supporting us. Uh, I think the thing with homeschooling was like you couldn’t, again, you can’t do it by yourself. My mom physically could not. So although she did a lot for us, like, being able to, like, create a sort of curriculum for us or like, being able to create a– Trajectory, academic trajectory for our homeschool collaborative, like, those are the things that she was really pivotal, to, like, a lot of that couldn’t happen without her. But, um, it was also, yeah, like, supported by a lot of, like, family members, community members. I mean. A lot of, like, parents that were in the homeschool group were pretty much just like– you kind of just– they kind of just looked out for all of– for everybody as well, and so they were all really important. I mean, a lot of the parents again, like, they were, you know, we would go over there and spend time. Like, it was very much, like, you kind of had to build structures for each other. So yeah, I remember going to family– to other people's family’s houses and they had like a, I don’t know. We were doing something or they were going somewhere, we might just tag along with them for the day kind of thing, drop them off. So it was like, very, very, like. It was dependent on people or like, other people, so, like, my aunt was also really important. Uh, my grandma was really important on my mom’s side. Those were two figures that were always, like, taking us to practices or like, you know, I remember my aunt was taking me to, like, do interviews in different places when my mom or dad couldn’t drive me, like, very, just like, supportive in that sense and, uh, helping us to, yeah! Just kind of be able to make it work. I mean, we didn't have a lot of, like, resources to really be doing, like, a really well manicured homeschooling edition. It was kind of just like, you pretty much just, yeah, we kind of just, I don’t know. Kind of just had to do, yeah! I guess we just had to make it work. Like, I don’t even know. I think a lot of it’s hard because, again, I was so young. That was before– this all happened between, again, the ages of like, up until I was 14, right? So. I mean, I don’t even remember those times, like, too vividly, which is why I would like, love to go back to them with like [inaudible].
[01:03:12]
Kind of like mentally just rewind because, like, yeah! A lot of, I don’t remember a lot of like, the ins and outs. I just remember always feeling, always knowing that like, “Okay. I’ma go here today” or like, “we’re dropping you off there tonight.” Like, “be prepared, they’re going to come over to here tonight.” So, like, it was just always, uh, you know. Communal help and also being in Woodbridge, like, uh, where I lived. There was a lot of like, we had– we had pretty good relationships with, like, pretty much all of the families on the street so, like, we were always outside and always with, like, our friends playing around. We were always, you know. Every, yeah, like, it was just very much like we were pretty friendly with most of the adults in our lives and, like, they were pretty active, um. Yeah! Uh. [pause] I mean, again, like, I think my mom’s side of the family being from Jersey was also really important and always, like, having different locations in Jersey where, like, we can go, um. I mean, there’s so much history, like, in– in my mom’s side of the family that I’ve always wanted to really dive into and just, like. Uh, understand more, but, yeah, like, you know. My cousin is an artist and so she was always like, doing artistic things, and it was, like, really important for us to see that growing up. Um. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t even know how to begin! [laughs] I guess it’s just, like, things that kind of just always seem and, um. Even in Highland Park, I definitely noticed that there was a lot of, like, adult support and like, again, my teachers were super, super important. Um. Still are! I keep into contact with a lot of my teachers and I think for me, it was just, like, going to school I was like “Oh, y’all are teachers who get paid to like, support us, ”like, or it’s like, like they were some of my favorite people. Uh, and I’m always– I will always have a deep appreciation for teachers, but I also see teachers in so– such a broad sense. Like, I see teachers in so– such a broad sense. Like, I see teachers in like my aunt and my grandma and my mom and my dad, but, in Ms. Neyama. Like, different people just like, I don’t know, they were all teachers in different ways, so, like, I feel like a large part of it is just like the teachers broadly. And I think going to boarding school is eye opening as well. I mean, that’s a whole ‘nother like, chapter thing. But like, that was really cool ‘cause it was like, you got to see, you know, a lot of other kids who’re your age who were like. You know, just being different kids from different parts of the world. Not even just from New Jersey, but, like, it was great to always feel like you had, like, adults who were looking out for you and supporting, and I feel like that’s definitely shaped how I’ve seen, like, um, my own interest in education, like, they were all really important to helping me see, like, that education is, not even education. It’s more so, like, yeah, supporting young people broadly, but, like specifically in an educational sense.
[01:06:00]
It’s so important and it’s– it’s very crucial and, um. Again, a lot of, like, the foundational elements of my personality and my interest and my life and like, who I am are tied to the, you know, the people that were able to support that growing up and so, even if it was just as simple as, like, yeah, going over to another family, another homeschool family’s house for dinner or, like, staying there during the day. Just kind of chillin’. Like, it was always, like, an environment where there was somebody who was able to support and look out for us, uh, in a pretty just, like, you know. Hodge podge collage kind of sense. Like, it was never really too– Premeditated or ordained. And everything was kind of just, yeah! Kind of happened on the fly, I feel like. I think my mom was, again, building this co-op pretty much as it happened, like, there was not– it wasn’t for the sake of, like, to build the co-op. The co-op thing. It was more so, like, to, we need to educate the children! [laughs] Kind of, like, this is the only way to do it, so. I think that’s just how, like, I guess I would, like, describe that experience specifically. It was more so, like, yeah, a chance for us to be, um. To learn in the way, in outside of the school system, basically. And so, as a result, it’s only natural, I guess, that yeah, a lot of adults became, like, different figures in our lives. Or really important. Yeah! [pause] I don’t know. [pause] I feel like I’m missing some– something. Can’t think of it. [pause] Yeah, I don’t know. [pause] Yeah. Is there anything else? [laughs] I’m sorry. I keep asking for prompts.
No, no problem.
I really– yeah.
Um, is there anything you want to say about Black Community Watchline?
Oh, yeah! Black Community Watchline! [chuckles] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I can– I can share from my vantage point. I mean that was started definitely, yeah, the summer of 2020. Actually, a couple of things from that summer that I didn’t even mention at all that I think are really important, like. Number one is I think the [sniff] again, the fact that, like, a lot of, like, what happened in Highland Park during that summer was the byproduct of a lot of, like, buildup basically? And– It was kind of just, like, a national conversation but also like, I think it was a– it was necessary to micro it to the point of Highland Park. But I will say that it wasn’t something that, like, a lot of people were interested in.
[Editor’s Note: Learn more about Black Community Watchline here and here.]
[01:08:57]
I don’t think the town as a whole was interested in, other than– and I don’t think they ever were even through the creation of the Black Community Watchline and these different things, like. There’s never really been an interest in taking this national conversation into a local sense and just, like, “Alright, so we understand these things nationally. Or we understand policing in Ferguson or in, um, wherever. But, like, are we willing to understand it in Highland Park in our specific ways, and also, like, be critical in how the two are connected, the national and local and like, how suburban policing isn’t that much different, it’s just in different iterations than it is in, like, urban hyper-policed environments.” So. The summer of ‘20, like, Black Community Watchline started from, like, a series of emails, pretty much, I think and kind of just, like, phone calls between different residents. Um. Kind of just like, think about, like, how do we want to respond on a local level to what was happening nationally, and one of the ideas was to create the Black Community Watchline. And it was a response to the idea that, like, there was no way to kind of, like, observe the police outside of the police basically, like. You know, if you want to call the police, if you notice something happening racially, like whether it’s a byproduct of the police or not, like, you can’t, there’s nowhere to go. You know, I think, like, going back to my situation, like, my mom went to Facebook. That’s one way to go but that’s kind of crazy, you have to go to Facebook to try and, like, get accountability, right? Like. Even if, like, if my mom didn’t have Facebook and she just wanted to go through the town, like, would the situation have gotten as large as it did? Probably not. And so it’s like, the fact that there are so many situations that happen daily, again, that don’t have the same platform and the same visibility is less of a reflection of, like, you know, the– that’s less of a reflection of the situation itself or like, it’s less a reflection of, like, how, like, the actual profiling that goes on. It’s not such a reflection of that than it is, again, the fact that it’s not until things become super visible that quote on quote “change” or conversation starts to happen. So, like, for the Watchline I think, we were thinking about, like, how do we– how do we begin to, like, document? Number one, I guess, and just, like, tally up, like, a lot of the things and situations that we know happen that Black people and, you know, people experience in the own. So that was number one, and I feel like documentation, having a place to collect information, data apart from the police department, like. You can’t keep using the police as the record keeper, the record holder. Right? Like they– it’s– it’s a– it’s a conflict of interest at a certain point. And so, it was just also just a chance to be like, “Oh, we can do this ourselves.” Like, “residents can do this themselves.” So, um, the Watchline was started when, yeah! During the 2020, too, we were like, “We want to document things. We want to also, like, have a lens to create, like, legislation, kind of.” Um, “and we also want to way to,” like, yeah, “to build legislation based off of, like, what we notice, so this would, like, make recommendations for, like,” I think one of the reco– rec, uh, one of the legislations that was, like, really important, was, like, getting the police to release, uh, like, be more transparent about the data that they had?
[01:12:14]
Um. And so that was, like, one policy recommendation, was another element of the Black Community Watchline. And it was also just, to like, kind of have, like, another outlet, for real, so if you know of something or you want to talk, you pretty much got, like, an open resource. And I honestly wasn’t too involved with it past the brainstorming stage. Like, I was there for, like, some of the first conversations, which, like, was throwing some ideas and, like, experiences, and that was, I think, helpful. To have my perspective there just as a younger person. But, like, for the most part it was pretty– it was pretty– I was– I wasn’t too involved in, like, the formation of it and I’m not even like a full member quote-on-quote of, like, like, I don’t– I haven’t done any calls. I’m not really, like, a member of the Watchline. I was more so just there ‘cause it was my friend’s mom and, like, I was connected and, like, you know, I was able to sort of, like, provide my– my perspective, but it was a lot of, like, people who came together to, like, basically build a watchline that was, like, 24 hours. You could call about any or report any incident that you saw happen or that happened to yourself and, um, you’d have a place for it to go. Whether it was you wanted to get advice on, like, what to do next legally or you wanted somebody to come in immediately and respond or you wanted, just, to report an incident and have it exist in the documentation. Or you wanted to do all of the above, like. It was kind of just a Watchline, a catch all Watchline. Um, and the interesting thing is that, like, I don’t think to this day, actually, the– the town has never– hasn’t really acknowledged it. Um. It was started in Highland Park but, like, it’s also connected to New Brunswick and, uh, uh, like Metuchen. We’re trying to like– a lot of the promotion was trying to be in the Central Jersey area. But it’s something that definitely could be replicated elsewhere, but like, yeah, none of– there’s never been any formal acknowledgement or recognition of the Watchline. Um. But you get it! It isn’t surprising, obviously, but it’s just, like, it’s kind of funny that like, yeah, there isn’t a– there was such an interest in trying to be proactive and responding to, like, these natural conversations on a local scale, but, like, here’s something that residents are putting together on their own dime, on their own time, that doesn’t get acknowledged or recognized at all by the municipal government. Again, unsurprising. Like, I don’t think there was any expectation, it’s just interesting to notice. And so from that larger perspective I think, like, yeah, like, that was something that the Watchline was something that I– I am glad got– was able to start and I think, you know, we had a, I don’t know. We had, like, an interesting– It was just a set of interesting conversations about, “like, yeah, I have been harassed by the police regularly and like, I don’t know where to go anymore.” So, like, this is a cool Watchline to, like, maybe call the next time something happens. And I think that also, like, a recognition that because this is just literally just a group of parents and citizens, like. We don’t have a lot of, like, power in, um, you know, the ability to mobilize things. Like, we can’t do a lot.
[01:15:01]
But I think that’s more of a start than anything. So, that’s the Watchline! Um. Again, besides like, sort of the founda– some of the fund, uh, the brainstorming from the beginning and like some of the, like, prep process. Like, I wasn’t too too active in it. Since I was in school and back and forth. But, um, I know there’s a lot of volunteers. All volunteer run. Lot of volunteers who were, like, really active about it, which has been great. Uh. The Watchline is also connected to, like, a lot of other things that were happening that summer. One of the things that, like, I was kind of involved in was trying to get– gain more transparency about Highland Park’s budget as a police department. The budget makes– the Highland Park Police Department has about, like, a– their budget is about four times as large as community services in Highland Park and community services include a number of things. It includes, like, everything from, like, the, uh, the recreation department to, like, the arts and cultural, like, I forgot was the term is. Like, the arts, not department. It’s like the arts’ team or whatever. They get like 2,500 dollars a year in funding. So it’s like, all of these community agencies or community services as a whole are severely, like, disproportionately, at least, receive less money than the police department in Highland Park. And, so, in the summer of 2020, like, all we were trying to do was to gain more transparency on, like, the budget lowkey. Like, there was no– all we wanted to know was like, “Okay, the police get four million dollars. What is it spent on?” And that was kind of like one area that I was really interested in because, like, it’s one thing for us to, like, be, you know, la-di-da-di about da-da-da about, like, the policing structure in another city or another country, but, like. It’s really, the only way to really be able to diagnose that on the local scale is to really investigate, like, how much the police get here.
And, um, this is, again, was the time when people were, like, super scared of the– from the police, and like, “Oh, I hate that,” you know, I hate that [audio fades, cuts out] And so, from– it was so weird to really go around and people, you know, were very opposed to it! They didn’t want– they thought the police needed more money! Which, again, wasn’t surprising, but it was just, like, again, a lot of cognitive dissonance, I feel like, in a town like Highland Park. Pretty obviously, like, interested in progressive ideals or, you know, Black Lives Matter being painted outside of, like, the city hall and a lot of, like, surface, uh, appreciation and interest in, like, diversity and equity, but, like, a simple conversation about transparency was so difficult. I remember going to– I had a one meeting with the police chief, like, in the police department and asking for more clarity, and he gave me, like, a list of spreadsheets. He had given us a– a– a document with, like, a bunch of graphs about the police department’s expenditure and I went back to sort of ask him a follow up question about it and very adamantly, multiple times during our conversation was like, “The police– we do not– we will not be defunding, and as a matter of fact, we need more money, we need more officers, we need more equipment.”
[01:18:11]
Um. It was like a refrain that was repeated multiple times. And so, like, honestly, it’s, like, very disheartening to hear? But it’s also just, like, kind of dissociating, like, is the only other way to deal with it, because, you know, for a town like Highland Park, there isn’t a political necessity in the same sense that I think people have of, like, other communities where it’s like, “Oh, we need to, you know, people are pretty comfortable and okay with the way policing exists now.” But it’s like, the people that, like, I feel like are genuinely invested in the current state of policing are the people who don’t have to, like, worry about the police being there for them. So it’s like a very– it’s– it’s a weird paradigm to have to, like, talk to a police chief about like, their money, like. Obviously he’s not going to budge, or the mayor who’s, like, beholden to the police union, right? Like, has no leverage to begin to crit– criticize publicly or deviate from what the police demand, right? Like, the police have a sort of autonomy in Highland Park, and I think that’s the case with most communities, that, like, it’s hard to challenge. And, so, the budget was one way we were interested in being accountable to that, but it definitely wasn’t the only way. And unfortunately, it was, like, there was not a lot of progress that we were able to make in that regard. Uh, just because it was like kind of a dead end. And they would pretty be adamant about the dead end, but, like, that was another thing that we were trying to do. But I will say, the one thing that definitely happens is we started to, like, advise a budget. A people’s budget that could, like, begin to, you know, to discuss where else the money could go. We had a lot of great suggestions from people, like, places that money could go that would reduce, that could, like, simultaneously invest in like, community solutions, but also, like, reduce and, uh, what’s the word. Like, minimize the need to depend on the police for extra functions. The thing with– with, like, Highland Park policing and, like, the department there is, like, a lot of the functions that they describe were things that, like, why is this in the police department? Like, they had a youth, um, they had a youth, what was it. Like, a youth department or like, a youth officer. And obviously, the police, yeah, they’re supposed to be connected to the community and so a lot of people would, yeah, like, “we need a youth officer”, but we really don’t need a youth officer. We don’t need a juvenile department for the police. They have no– there’s no reason for the police to have it, to have a– an appeal to young people. If you really are interested in the youth, we can divest that money and put it towards, like, programs and– and programming that would actually support young people. We don’t need a youth officer who will probably be overtly criminalizing, like, specific people in the community as is the case in the school system, definitely. And all they got police out of the school, like, it was very– you can– you can very clearly see, like, the needs for, like, the youth officer is only tied to the perceived need for certain communities, certain young people in certain communities to have the need for a youth officer so, like, that’s a very– that’s something that the police are able to justify.
[01:20:59]
But in actuality, like, if you’re genuinely interested in, like, young people in the community, like, there’s other ways to spend that salary, right? Than having that position. Or, they had a ton of money for new equipment and programming and, like, a ton of money for programming on, like, diversity and equity and inclusion. And it’s like, the police– the police, those– those, like, uh, what’s it called. A lot of those lessons are outdated and are unnecessary. It’s like– it’s like, certain things in the budget that are able to be justified from the department’s perspective that we just wanted clarity on. What exactly is the money going towards, and do you agree that this disproportionate, like, spending makes sense? If we’re trying to invest in community, like, why is the police the largest expenditure in our community? And it’s like, it doesn’t, it doesn’t add up with the rhetoric that we’re trying to promote, that we’re interested in, like, the people of Highland Park, right? Who interested in the community. Um. And it’s also difficult because a lot of, again, a lot of the community members are genuinely, I don’t even mean a lot, I think. People that you talk to are very– plenty of people be acting like, “Yeah, the police do not need all this money.” But for some who really do believe that the police need more? A lot of their justification is that, like, the town is safe as is. That’s good. That’s like, one of the things that I’m trying to kind of wrap my head around is, how do we begin to penetrate this idea that the police are, like, the response, that the police are the ones responsible for safety? And also, to really question what safety even means. Like, that was one of the things that we were beginning to ask people during our budgeting, was we would have public– public budgeting sessions of, like. In Highland Park, yeah, we’re quote-on-quote “safe” community but, like, safe to who, and safe from whom? Like, who are we safe, who are we safe from? And I feel like once we start to ask those questions, it’s a little more difficult to begin to, like, tie the police to any concrete function besides, like, a policing mechanism that’s presumptive and assumptive on who the criminal is, who the policing, who needs to be policed, and I feel like in Highland Park a lot of those questions have never been fully answered about, like, larger questions about how we think about New Brunswick. How people think about, like, the people that we’re trying to keep away.
How New Brunswick people feel about coming into Highland Park! And, like, Black people from other parts of Central Jersey being like, “I don’t want to drive through Highland Park because it’s– the police are gonna pull you over!” Like, it's something that my mom’s generation knows. Like, you just know that about Highland Park. And so there’s certain things that I’m, like, are fundamentally tied to this idea of “safety” that is a huge justification that has never been fully, like, unpacked or integrated, and like, a lot of how that safety is predicated on, like, this not feeling safe from other people. And I don’t know! I don’t– I don’t– I don’t know what else to do. I mean, the Watchline, again, is to tie everything back. The Watchline is a great start, but it’s unfortunately, pretty, like, it’s– it’s difficult to– to– to create community solutions without, like, without the power to make structural change, and a lot of that is unfortunately tied to the money, which is fixed but also, like, increasing yearly. So, like, it’s a constant, like, snowballing that’s difficult to sort of, like, stop.
[01:24:05]
I mean, again, there’s so much justification from the police department. Like, so much rhetoric that’s, like, that’s hard to disprove. For a lot of people. Um. But I’ve never been one to think that the police are the people that keep us safe, to be honest. And, um, I know that because I’ve felt unsafe because of the police. And so it’s like, from that vantage point, it’s hard not to– it’s hard to under– it’s hard not to, like, look– want to look deeper, for me, at least, into, like, how the police are structured and where they get their power from. A lot of it is money. A lot of it is like, sort of like perceived need for their presence? Um. A lot of it is just, like, communal tradition. There’s a lot of reverence for the Highland Park Police Department that goes beyond any, like, need for safety and more so is a larger question about just how we think about the police as heroes and saviors in general.
So it’s a lot of, like, layered, uh, like, interrogation that needs to happen that is difficult! It’s very difficult but like, the Watchline is definitely one way I think of, like, providing a resource outside of the police that can, like, begin to document from quote-on-quote “people’s perspective” or just like, everyday person’s perspective. What’s really, what might even happen. But even that is not enough! There’s a lot of people that don’t know about the Watchline because it’s never been promoted by the government! It’s like, it’s– it’s a lot of, like, on the Watchline that, like, people are just, like, “Well, what’s the point?” Right? Like, which I understand. What is the point? The Watchline doesn’t have the power to, like, go out and punish the police, right? Because they’re not gonna defer to that, obviously, so. I don’t know! I mean, that’s a lot of, like, thoughts on, uh, on what I– what has happened, but, at the end of the day, I definitely think it’s like, [chuckles] the summer of 2020 was super important. I think a lot of young people, like, high schoolers were really involved which was great to see. Lot of high schoolers were beginning to question, like, the policing system. Not even beginning. We’ve always had, but, like, there was like, a lot of reports that, you know, students were doing. I remember being in, like, one of my class– one of my former teacher’s classes talking with students about some research that they had done on, like, policing and segregation in the towns, like. I definitely think that was a huge summer, like, attempting to shift how people saw the community, but, like, it’s, um, it’s unfortunate that the monetary, like, organization of the community and of the town is the hardest thing to alter? ‘Cause that to me is one of the very clear cut ways to begin to actually, like, begin to transform things. But, yeah! The Watchline is definitely a huge– it was like a really cool, like, initiative, and I think it’s something that, like, a lot of people noticed and were like “Oh that’s, that’s cool.” Um. And it– it’s important. It’s necessary, definitely. And the hope is that it could be, like, supported and complimented by other initiatives, you know. [audio cuts out] But, yeah. Large tangent on that. [laughs] [pause] Yeah!
[01:27:00]
Uh. I don’t know where else to go [pause] I mean. [sniff] I gotta mention, like, yeah, I think a lot of, like, my approach to it– A lot of my interest in, like, Highland Park specifically has always been historical? And, um, I don’t think you can really talk about the police, right, like, nowadays without connecting it to the history of the town, and like, I think there’s a lot in this history that hasn’t been told yet unfortunately, and a lot of, like, a lot of people who have experiences that just haven’t been shared on, like, a public scale. That could, I think, really be helpful and, like, that’s one way to approach it. Just documenting things. Even if it won’t change, like, at least documenting it is helpful. So there’s a lot of, like, projects that I think would be great for the town to get involved in. And I think a lot of community members, like, have stories to tell and, like, experiences to share that would be helpful! Anecdotal, everyday experiences, all the way to like, really big and like, whoa kind of experiences that, like, can hopefully begin to shift conversation. I mean, my experience was very, like. I think for a lot of people, the first time they really had to reckon with, “oh, that’s crazy!” Like, “That should not have happened!” Um, but it’s unfortunate that, like, it takes that to begin to tangentially shift the conversation towards, like, “Oh, maybe we should look into the police!” Or, like, “who is the,” um, like, “who, who, who holds the police accountable in situations like this?” But, yeah. I don’t know. Um. It’s, yeah. [chuckles] A lot there. [pause]
Uh, Amiri, are there any potential final thoughts you wanna, you wanna leave with?
Um. I mean, I’m really interested in, like, this– this oral history project. I think it’d be really cool for y’all to like, come, uh, include– I can definitely send you some names, include, like, some of the people, friends that I have that went to the high school who can share their perspective. I mean, a lot of people who’ve been to Highland Park have been here longer than me, so, like, a lot of what I’m sharing, too, is also kind of just fragmented and pieced together from my experience, but, like, really it’s a lot of, like, other experiences that I think also would be helpful to, like, highlight. I mean, Highland Park is like, not, like, as large of its, you know. It’s a small town, so it’s like, most people here known what’s going on. It’s not, like, a problem, of like, education or like awareness or like seeing things. I feel like most people now probably know what the situation is. You kind of see it again. Like, drive around town and it’s a very visually, like, comprehensive community. Like, you can see where things are, how they’re built, where they’re built, what they’re doing, like. You see change and you see things where you see, you notice and stuff, like. People who’ve been here longer probably have better sort of, like, you know, overall perspective on like, a lot of this.
[01:30:02]
And also, like, a lot of the young people who’ve been in Highland Park maybe had to leave or been to Highland Park for, like, only for a little bit, but, like, their pers– their perspectives was off. I mean, it’s a lot of kids that I know who, like, were literally in the schools and never, never had a chance. Never had a chance in the school system. They were con– they were basically alloted to a certain track from, like, middle school, elementary school, and that’s it. And so, like, a lot of those experiences, I feel like, are really important and unfortunate because, like, I feel like we don’t really talk about it a lot. We like to tokenize a lot of experiences here which is cool and all, like, yeah, you came from Highland Park. You’re able to do this, that, and the third. Or you’re, you’re able to talk about this, that, and the third, but it’s like. There’s a lot that kind of falls to the cracks, unfortunately. And, like, um, a lot of times it’s not cared about unless it’s something that can ultimately come around to serve a larger argument or narrative about, like, how progressive the town is, or how, like, forward thinking the community is that we’re able to have student, you know what I’m saying? Like. So I think oral history maybe is a chance to, like, begin to move away from that in the sense of, like. Just documenting everyday people, like, every person has a different experience. And, um, yeah! I think that’s pretty much it, but, like, yeah. I’ve always been, like, kind of, just un, uninterested in, like, a lot of the, like, uninterested in a lot of the rhetoric of the town only because I’ve, like, heard so many experiences otherwise that have, like, kind of been like, oh, “yeah, you know, we have nice, like, a nice downtown and we have, like, a lot of great, the school system is really cool. As a public school system we have a great, you know, cool teachers.” Like, yes, that’s all great and all, but like, I definitely think there’s a lot that just doesn’t get shared because there’s no audience for it because it doesn’t fit into a larger rhetoric and– I don’t know, I don’t really know. I think a lot of that, again, is like, comes through projects like this to, like, put together what I’m trying to describe. It’s like actual, like, or you could have actually seen the connections. But, like, I definitely hope that, like, this project can do that. Um, and really be like a place for hopefully– for, like, stories to be told that can be helpful to, like, kind of just, like, pushing against this– this rhetoric or this idea of like, this oasis of a community. And even the id– pushing against the idea of, “yeah, we’re a community that tries.” Yeah, we try, but like, we’ve been “trying” quote-on-quote for decades and, like, nothing has changed. Like, the town is still segregated. The town is still, like, racially segregated in very fundamental ways. And so, it’s like, even that dynamic of like “oh, we’re trying! Da-da-da, we’re doing our best,” like, sure, but not really! Because, like, a lot still hasn’t changed and like, a lot of the– the things that do lead to change, again, like, monetarily or like, involved in the government are pretty rigid.
[01:32:55]
And a lot of, like, belief systems as well are pretty rigid in the community, like. How people really perceive Highland Park connected to the rest of Central Jersey is very rigid, so like even the idea of Highland Park being a community that’s, like, open to change or like we’re trying to change is like, I, I don’t know. It’s hard to see on the physical sense of, like, on a real sense. But, I don’t know, man. [laughs] I, I love the child, like, obviously it’s very formative to me. But it’s, talking about things like this, I think I’d like– really important to not really– I don’t like to sugarcoat it ‘cause it’s like, but not even sugarcoat it. I just don’t like to tell it in a optimistic light ‘cause I don’t think, I think the optimism is what allows people to, like, get stuck for real in the same– the same circumstances of just, like, not being willing to change how people experience the town. I mean, the school system is a great example of just, like, yeah. The fact that you can pretty, I mean, pretty much you can identify, like, the same Black teachers that have been there for, like, years, you know what I’m saying? Or, like, the same outcomes, stratified outcomes for years. But it’s like, you know, we’re trying, we’re trying. And it’s like, okay, but, like, even that rhetoric gets, like, stuck, too. I don’t know! I mean, I would love to, like, help out with this oral history project as well, like, if there’s any way I can support it or just help but, uh. Yeah, man! I mean, it’s a lot within the– the history and I’m, like, really interested in like hopefully this being a place for that to, like, be shown as well.
Yeah, if there are folks who you think should be included as voices on this, uh, if you wanted to connect us, that would be incredibly helpful. Thank you.
Yeah! That would be really cool! I– I love it. I mean, yeah, I have a bunch of friends who I’m sure would be, at least interested or you can ask, but, yeah! I think that would be great, to, like. I can definitely follow up with you about that. If– if it takes me a minute, just definitely please send me a reminder. It’s like, I’m just at school so I’m very, like, all over the place? But I definitely still want to follow up. So even if it takes a couple emails, I’m sorry about that, but like, I will definitely, I would love to connect you with some people who, from college, students, maybe even some– yeah, some college students who I– who graduated with me, I’m sure would be interested at least.
Very cool. Alright, Amiri, thank you so much. If anything comes up in the interim that you want to include that wasn’t, that you didn’t remember in the moment, you’re welcome to just reach out and we’ll find some time to reconnect. Otherwise–
[inaudible, overlapping]
I’ll get this transcribed for you and send it over to you for comment as soon as it’s ready!
Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.
No problem. Uh. Enjoy school!
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
Bye!
[01:35:41]
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