Educator in Texas

This educator in Texas recounts painful memories and what she has learned throughout her experiences. She has found little support from her family pertaining to the decisions she’s made in her life, including her abortion experience.

“Um, and so maybe I feel like different views maybe need to be heard so that someone can say, ‘You know what? I can relate to that story.’ I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know, I just have never really come across a story like mine where someone has said they’ve looked around the room and they’ve identified that this probably was no easy decision.”
— Educator in Texas

ANNOTATIONS

1. Substance Use Disorder, Alcohol Use Disorder - High-functioning alcoholics are individuals who have a serious alcohol use disorder (AUD) but are able to maintain a relatively high level of functioning in their personal and professional lives. They often appear successful, responsible, and capable on the outside, making it difficult to recognize their alcohol dependence. Having a high-functioning alcoholic in one's family can create a myriad of issues such as emotional distress, codependency, neglectfulness, and financial strain. In addition, heavy alcohol consumption has been linked to more than sixty different diseases, including cancer, heart attacks, strokes, and cirrhosis of the liver. According to the Mayo Clinic, cirrhosis of the liver is "late stage scarring caused by liver diseases and conditions, such as hepatitis and chronic alcoholism." In other terms, alcohol damages the liver, and it tries to repair itself by forming scar tissue. Advanced cirrhosis can be terminal.
2. Cost of Living - In the last two decades the United States has seen rapid economic and population growth in many cities and metropolitan areas around the country. However, this rapid growth has led to a drastic increase in unaffordable housing and unsustainable living conditions. For example, where the narrator lives is currently one of the most rapidly economically growing regions in Texas right now, resulting in a rise in house prices. Finance experts strongly advise that a homeowner's monthly mortgage shouldn't exceed more than 30% of their gross income. However, the average homeowner is spending around 60% of their income on their mortgages.
3. Debate on Abortion, Reproductive Rights - The pro-choice and pro-life debate centers around the issue of abortion, specifically regarding a woman's right to choose whether to terminate a pregnancy or to protect an unborn fetus's right to life. Generally, "pro-choice" is the belief that women have the right and legality to choose whether or not to continue their pregnancy or have an abortion. On the other hand, "pro-life," is the belief that unborn fetuses have the right to life and abortions are unlawful acts of taking a potential child's life. To clarify, the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" were created to oversimplify the stances surrounding abortion; the topic of abortion is a complex and highly contentious matter that touches on various ethical, legal, religious, and personal beliefs. Many people have a complicated opinion on abortion that doesn't simply fit into the pro-choice and pro-life debate.
4. Abortion Stigma - Abortion stigma refers to the social and cultural attitudes, beliefs, and stereotypes that create a sense of shame, secrecy, and judgment surrounding abortion. This stigma is perpetuated by misinformation and lack of knowledge, making the topic taboo in many countries and cultures. Due to widespread misinformation, this stigma is weaponized to create and maintain barriers to abortion, such as anti-abortion laws, restricted access to healthcare, and institutions that gatekeep knowledge from the public. While discussions about abortion rights are becoming more common, many individuals who have had abortions still fear being judged or ostracized by their communities, families, or friends due to prevailing negative attitudes about abortion. In Texas, abortion stigma is very prevalent due to its history of implementing anti-abortion laws dating back to the mid-1800s. After the overturning of Roe v. Wade, many anti-abortion politicians in Texas have clarified that they plan to prevent any Texan from getting an abortion anywhere in the country. According to the Texas Tribune, The Freedom Caucus, made up of conservative state House members, has sent cease-and-desist letters to top law firms and abortion funds, threatening them with legal action if they help people leave the state to get abortions. These relentless political attacks and negative attitudes toward abortion fuel the widespread abortion stigma in Texas and across the nation.
5. Decision Difficulty Regarding Abortions - According to a UC San Francisco study, over 95% of the individuals who received an abortion believed it was the right decision for them. Although many people did not find it challenging to decide to terminate their pregnancies, an underrepresented populace, including individuals like the narrator, found it hard to make such a decision. According to a 2019 study by the Netherlands Organization for Health Research and Development, 25–35% of abortion clients have experienced decision difficulty as to whether to continue or terminate their pregnancy. These feelings of uncertainty and guilt are caused by a multitude of factors including community stigma, negative attitudes about abortion, lack of familial or financial support, and health-related fears about abortion. However, researchers at UCSF Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health (ANSIRH) reported that the stigma and negative feelings felt by individuals who received an abortion significantly diminished over a five-year period.
6. Post-Abortion Hormonal Changes - After an abortion, whether the procedure is a medical abortion (using medication) or a surgical abortion, there can be hormonal changes in the body. These changes are usually temporary and may affect individuals differently. Some common hormonal changes include prolonged heightened levels of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), an irregular menstrual cycle, hormonal fluctuations, mood swings, postpartum depression, and breast tenderness. Many individuals, like the narrator, experience high levels of hCG, a hormone produced during pregnancy, for weeks or months post-abortion, which causes pregnancy tests to continue to be positive for many weeks afterward. It can take anywhere from two weeks to two months for levels of hCG to decrease to pre-pregnancy levels.
7. Access to Healthcare, Social Safety Net - Texas has some of the most restrictive and harsh anti-abortion laws among the fifty states. Even before the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in July 2022, Texas had a long history of enforcing anti-abortion laws. The most recent occurred in 2021 with the enactment of the Heartbeat Bill that bans abortions at about six weeks from the patient's last menstrual period, which is when proponents claim that a "fetal heartbeat" can be detected. The bill has also been labeled the "bounty" law, allowing Texan citizens to take civil action against those who have had an abortion. Along with the strict laws, Texas, unfortunately, lacks funding and proper support services and healthcare aid to assist new mothers. According to studies by The Annie E. Casey Foundation and USA Today, Texas ranks as one of the ten worst states in the country for maternal mortality, child welfare, and access to contraception.
8. Economic and Healthcare Policies in Texas, Access to Healthcare, Access to Family Resources - In many ways, the Texas government fails when it comes to supporting and providing resources to low-income families. According to a 2022 study by The New York Times, the state ranks 21st in infant mortality, 34th in maternal mortality, 39th in child poverty, and last when it comes to uninsured women. Texas also has no guaranteed paid leave, no universal pre-k, and has yet to raise its minimum wage, which has stayed at $7.25 an hour since 2009. Despite Texas' inability to provide efficient healthcare, childcare, foster care, housing, and well-paying jobs to the thousands of children and families that require it, politicians strive to implement harsher anti-abortion laws and attempt to expand these laws outside of the state.
9. Medical Abortion, Motherhood - An under-discussed reality about abortions is that a majority of people who seek abortions are already mothers. According to 2019 data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 60% of individuals seeking abortions already have one child. One-third of individuals seeking an abortion have two or more children. Individuals seeking to terminate their pregnancies do so for a myriad of reasons, ranging from health complications, lack of familial or spousal support, inaccessibility to healthcare, financial instability, or simply because they do not want another child. The demographics of individuals seeking abortions sheds light on how abortion services play a crucial part in many people's reproductive healthcare.
10. Access to Healthcare, Out-of-State Abortions, Abortion Restrictions - In the months following the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, nearly half of the states in the United States have either banned abortion or passed hostile laws against those seeking abortions. The prohibition and lack of legal protection in these states have led to a surge of people traveling outside their state lines to states where the procedure is still legal. While many states have enacted criminal penalties for residents seeking outside care, some states like New Jersey and New York have begun passing interstate shield laws. According to the Center for Reproductive Rights, these laws protect abortion providers and helpers in states where abortion is protected and accessible from civil and criminal consequences from abortion care provided to an out-of-state resident. In addition, abortion advocacy nonprofit groups in abortion-banning states, like the Texas Equal Access Fund based in Dallas, Texas, have begun funding the travel and medical expenses of those seeking outside help.

TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

Interview conducted remotely

April 25, 2023

Transcription by Chrissy Briskin

Annotations by Lanai McAuley

00:00

Ah, today is Tuesday April 25, 2023. Ah, 3:09 pm Eastern time. Ah, this is Dan Swern from coLAB Arts conducting a virtual interview with–

[Redacted]

[Redacted], thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your story. It’s been a pleasure to meet you and do our pre-interview and, uh, whenever you’re ready, please feel free to start from the very beginning.

Okay, um, so whenever you go through Aid Access, you are asked, um, something, questions and then asked if I was– if I would be interested in sharing my story. Um, and I without hesitation, I clicked yes, sure. Um, 'cause I thought, you know, what are the odds that someone’s really gonna contact me, but here we are. Someone did contact me, um, and um, even though I was a little, um, hesitant just because of– I come from a conservative family, I come from a conservative state, I just felt like it was very important, um, to share my story. Um, give a voice to what has happened, um, what I’ve gone through, um, it’s definitely a journey and a story. Um, it’s not something I can openly talk about within my family. Um, there are some people in my family that I can talk about it with, but it’s not something that was ever supported. That being, um, abortion. Um, so I was born in [Redacted], um, we moved to [Redacted], and I spent a few years there, and then we moved to Texas. I consider myself a hybrid, um, [Redacted] and Texas-raised because the majority of my life has been in Texas. Um, I guess I said it already, but Texas is a very conservative state and that is everything from prayer in schools to abortion to, um, it’s called the Bible Belt for a reason. Um, so um, I don’t, um, I’ve made a lot of, um, decisions in my life where I don’t know, maybe some people don’t own up to their bad decisions or, um, but I’ve made some– a lot of good decisions and a lot of maybe poor decisions throughout my life. But my nephew told me recently the shame dies when you’re given a safe place to share your story. So, I don’t know, I just kind of feel like everything lined up for a reason. Um, is this where I talk about me and my background? Even though I’m not supposed to– yeah? Okay. Um, I come from a large family. Um, (clears throat) I’m one of six. Uh, but my entire family, um, my grandparents on one side had ten and eleven kids a piece and so I’ve– having a large family, having a lot of kids is something that’s normal. I have a lot of cousins, I love it. Um, I have an older brother and an older sister. I have a younger sister. Ah, when my dad remarried, and then I have two brothers who were adopted at birth. Um, from my mom and my stepdad. Um, I don’t like to differentiate between half sister and adopted brothers but it gets a little confusing sometimes if I don’t. Um, I always went to [Redacted] to visit my dad, every summer, so even though I didn’t see him for nine or ten months out of the year, we did spend summers up there every year.

5:40

Um, so that place, [Redacted], um, and my family up there also, um, holds a big part of who I am, shaped who I am. Um, that and being my mom is very conservative. My dad was– is– was not as conservative. Example: we were given a limited amount of time that we could watch TV when we were growing up with my mom. And we weren’t allowed to watch The Simpsons, we weren’t allowed to watch Married with Children, we weren’t allowed to watch anything that was “dysfunctional,” that represented something like a dysfunctional family. Ironic, but, um, we went to church every Sunday morning, every Sunday night, every Wednesday, my mom was heavily involved within the church. Um, and my dad is a believer as well, but my dad was a lot more open with his thinking. He always said he was a rolling stone, a rolling stone gathers no moss. Um, and he would joke with me about that, um, as I got older. But my dad let us watch things like Saturday Night Live and, um, a lot of the classics, Caddyshack and, um, so I had very opposite ends of the spectrum growing up. Um, my mom was conservative, very limited on what I’m exposed to and then I go to [Redacted] and it’s my dad is much more (clears throat) open with that. Um, so obviously I think that shaped a lot of my, like, who I am. Um, my parents met when they were young. My mom and my dad. They got married, 'cause that’s what you do, I guess then. Um, they had my sister, had my brother, and had me. So, uh, 1978, 1979,1980. But my dad wasn’t present for my birth. He was a rolling stone at that time. Um, and they just weren’t– just from what I’ve described, even back then, maybe my mom got swept up in his charisma. But they just– they would have never made it long term. They’re not compatible. Um, he wasn’t faithful, um, and he was an alcoholic. I suppose he wouldn’t have called it that, um, and I think when we think alcoholic sometimes we think abuse and yelling and neglect, but that wasn’t my dad. He was (clears throat), he was a functional, happy, alcoholic. He probably wouldn’t say he is an alcoholic, or was.

[Annotation 1]

9:32

Um, so they got a divorce, by the time they got a divorce, my dad had already moved on probably to several women, but that’s not a conversation I ever had with him. I suppose my mom got tired of living a life like that and, um, her parents moved, so she just kind of followed them since that was her support system. Um, I don’t remember much of my early, early years. I only know that my father wasn’t there for my birth because that was something that was told to me. Um, I suppose we moved maybe when I was around two, and my grandparents had moved to [Redacted], so my mom followed them with us three, moved to [Redacted], and then my grandfather– my grandparents moved to North Texas, and my mom kind of migrated and followed them as well. I guess all their children essentially did that but, um, which landed us where we’re at, um, I do remember starting some schooling in [Redacted], but very, very little memories from that time. Um, I was probably in first or second grade by the time I started school in Texas. Um, that’s where I was raised. [Redacted], Texas, it’s where I graduated from. Um, I live in [Redacted], Texas now, which is just east of [Redacted]. [Redacted], and one of the least sustainable counties in Texas, um, as far as living. The cost of living, I suppose that’s everywhere now, too. A lot of people have– I feel like a lot of people have maybe bad or negative stories about the wicked stepmother and the wicked stepfather, ah, I did not. I don’t. I feel like maybe I got a crappy hand in cards with other aspects of my life, but I really had um, have amazing step-parents. Um, I don’t even like to call them my step-parents, 'cause it feels kind of cold. Um, so I call them my other mother, she’s been there since– since I can remember. I don’t remember her ever not being in the picture. Um, so she’s a wonderful, um, soft, she never treated us any different, um, from my sister. Um, my stepfather had no previous children, married my mom, our whole entire way of life changed, uh, positively. My mom was a single mother on a teacher’s salary, so I don’t ever remember rough times. I don’t ever remember being poor. I was very, I suppose, sheltered from that? Unaware. I just remember– I mean I played outside, I had food to eat, I went to school, I had a mother who was present, um, every evening we had structure and we had routine, so I was very, I don’t know, maybe in a bubble? Very innocent, very naive. Um, when my mom remarried at the age of 12 versus from pretty much birth forward with my stepfather, I mean, excuse me, my stepmom and my dad, my mom remarried somewhere around when I was 12 or 13. Um, they didn’t discuss money, they just had made an agreement that they would not go into the marriage with a lot of debt. And so my mom tells the story about how she– they didn’t talk about how much money they made and my stepfather is very, um, unpretentious, he’s just really humble. He doesn’t flaunt that kind of stuff and he was a single guy in his mid-thirties, so he had made wise financial decisions all unbeknownst to any of us.

[Annotation 2]

15:02

Um, kind of just drove a– I wouldn’t even say a normal car. I would just say he had, like, a beater car. Um, and just dressed, uh, casually. So when they got married, my mom had made a comment that she made more money than him and it was a shocking surprise that no, no, no, um, he made– makes– made significantly more money than my mother did. So our whole lifestyle changed, um, for the better. We went from living in a very nice trailer that my grandparents managed that trailer home community, so I remember it being very nice, um, and having land and creeks and horse apples and, um, but nonetheless it was a trailer, um, to having a brand new house built in the elite side of town where we all had our own rooms. My sister and I grew up sharing a room, my older sister and I, so that was an adjustment, um, even to the point where we would still sleep in each other’s rooms because we had slept in each other’s rooms for so long, so I have really, uh, solid relationships with my brothers and sisters, just because they were my best friends growing up. Um, so with that being said, my mom is an instructional coach who works for the Texas school system, um, both my mom and my stepfather have their master's degrees. My dad didn’t complete any college, I have my master’s degree. My father worked for [Redacted], [Redacted] is a unionized state, Texas is not, so [Redacted] is like a huge brand, so he was a warehouse worker and he worked there. That’s where he retired from, um, he actually passed away last May. If you hear my washer in the background, my apologies– okay. Um, last May, Friday the thirteenth, he passed away from cirrhosis of the liver. And, um, I remembered doing my monthly calendar and noting that Friday the thirteenth was going to occur in May, I’m a teacher as well, probably said that, but, um, and I only say that because I’m not really one to believe in, like, superstition or anything like that, I just find it sad and ironic– I had a friend who died, passed away, on, um, March the thirteenth of 2020 which was a Friday the thirteenth, too. So when I noted that May of last year was a Friday the thirteenth, I remember I was like ugh. And, um, that’s when my father died, um, um, I think that he, I don’t know if he knew he had– cirrhosis of the liver does not happen overnight, um, it’s a gradual thing, um, and I do know, like, looking back, I feel like maybe he inadvertently was leaving like bread crumbs if that makes sense. Um, 'cause he would tell me, “You know honey, I’m lonely,” just because his rolling stone ways caught up with him and he ended up dying not married and alone except for my sister. Lot of family, but not married.

20:07 

Um, anyways, he had gone to a golfing trip the weekend before, which was Mother’s Day weekend last year, had a great weekend with his friends, nothing out of the ordinary, and came back and pretty much slept for a couple days and he said he just didn’t feel right. So they took him to the hospital on, I think, Wednesday night, Tuesday night, and, um, he passed away on Friday, so we’re talking about in five days he went from enjoying a golf trip to passing away so that was very, uh, unexpected. Um, in contrast, you know, my stepfather, my other father, my parents, my mom and my stepdad, they don’t drink. There’s really never any alcohol in their house. There’s none in mine. Um, I think my stepfather does something with computers, I think he might be in the CIA, wouldn’t be surprised if that’s– that’s what it is when he retires. I say that jokingly, but I don’t really know what he does. He just works with computers. Um, so, uh, that gives you a little bit of background about me. Um, I am a teacher. I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. I have a bachelor’s degree in English and two minors, one in education, one in government. I originally wanted to be a lawyer, so I have my paralegal Associate’s Degree. Um, that– that didn’t work out. Only just because life happened. I had already had a daughter and, um, so I just stayed in education, which I ended up loving. Um, I have my Master’s Degree in educational administration. Um, I teach in the [Redacted] in the upper levels, it’s usually not split, but, uh, I do teach more of the split side of it. I teach [Redacted] for both freshmen and seniors. Um, and I teach some adult education classes as well. Um, I currently have no partner and I am okay with that. Uh, but I do have seven children, um, 22, 15, 13, 10, 8, and then my twins are– let me do that again, 22, 15, 13, 10, [Redacted]’s 9, and then I have twins, a set of twins, identical twins, God has a sense of humor, um, that are 7. Um, there are six girls so it’s girl, girl, boy, girl, girl, girl, girl. That’s why I said God has a sense of humor, He gave me identical twin girls. They have three different fathers. My oldest, [Redacted] has– I only had one child with him. I have a good relationship with him, the next two are girl and a boy, and they have a father, and then the youngest four have, share the same father. Um, I was with [Redacted]’s father, my oldest, for probably about five years. I didn’t ever marry him, but I was with him for a long time.

24:54

Um, I did marry the next two, the girl and the boy, I married him, and, um, my mom has always said that time is the true test of character. I think I wanted to get away from– so far from maybe what my relationship was with [Redacted]’s father, my oldest, that I just kind of allowed myself to get swept up in something that obviously was not reality, because it didn’t take very long after we were married for me to start– things just didn’t make sense and I’m not one to just take somebody’s, ah, reasoning– lie and know you’re being lied to and just say, “Oh, okay.” Example: um, prescription medication would come up missing. I would notice that it was missing, and when I would confront him, he would just say, “I don’t know.” And I’m like, “Mmm, but you’re the only person who knows it’s there, so.” I dug a little bit more, I maybe was the catalyst, just because I didn’t let things slide. I was a little bit more persistent and, uh, that digging just, it caused– he had to be, mmm, court ordered to go to the state hospital a couple times and he was diagnosed as a manic schizophrenic. I don’t have any contact with him. He doesn’t have any contact with the kids. Um, it’s not really allowed. He said the voices in his head tell him to kill me, so it’s a safety issue. My kids are irreplaceable, so there’s just not a lot of– there hasn’t been any involvement. Um, and then, um, I got a divorce and met the four kids’ father and we were together for close to nine years. We never got married. I think after my first and only marriage it was just enough for me to just, nah. Um, we never got married. I don’t think I’ll ever get married. Um, but we’re– we’re– we are no longer together. That was a roller coaster in and of itself. Woo. Um, looking back, growing up, um, I don’t have any huge like trauma factors that I would consider trauma factors in my life. I had a good childhood, I was probably not the best teenager, I definitely gave my mom and, well my dad too, a run for their money. If they told me I couldn’t do something then that most certainly assured that I would do it. Um, but it was kind of balanced. I– I feel like my mom couldn’t handle much more disappointment and hurt, so I was a good kid, a good teenager, I went to school, I never missed school, never got in trouble, I– I just– she said clean the house, do chores, you know, I did what I was supposed to do, but I was a sneaky kid. Um, I say sneaky in the sense that, like, my brother, my older brother, my older sister, they just, they didn’t really care about whether or not my mom knew what they were doing as far as like if it was that they stayed out all night and caused her the stress of not coming home or becoming involved in gang activity or, um, they just didn’t do much to hide it.

30:21

I think subconsciously I just knew my mom couldn’t handle much more of that so I just, I was kind of like the perfect kid. But I really wasn’t, I was just smart about keeping it hidden from her. Um, since I had an older brother and an older sister, I think I was exposed to things earlier than I would have maybe normally been exposed to them. Um, and I say that because I feel like maybe this is where my vision and perspective is a little skewed. I feel like a lot of kids experiment with drugs, and we’re talking about the nineties, fentanyl and all that wasn’t around so, um, you know, maybe when I would’ve experimented with marijuana, weed when I was 16 or 17, I had an older sister and an older brother so I was doing it at a much younger age. Um, just another example of that, my brother is a genius when it comes to taking apart something and putting it back together. He wasn’t necessarily book smart, he didn’t like school. He struggled in school, but he could take apart anything and put it back together, so I remember when I was fourteen, he had a train, an electrical train, um, and he took it apart and he made a tattoo gun. So to my mother’s dismay, um, a lot of us got tattooed very early. I think I got my first tattoo from my brother when I was fourteen. So, um, I did a lot of drugs, I was a little wild, um, I went to rehab my junior year in high school. My parents– at this point my sister had, my sister and my brother had moved to [Redacted], my mom found my diary and read it, and what she found in there got me sent to rehab. My first tattoo was an eight ball that represented an eight ball of cocaine. So the second semester of my junior year I was gone and I was allowed to come back and I was sober for a while. I’ve done pretty much every drug except heroin and mushrooms and all this new stuff that’s out there. No, I stopped all that stuff years ago. But, back then, um, what was normal, acid, LSD, marijuana, cocaine, I think I smoked meth when I was younger one time, it felt like it tasted like rotten tomatoes and I never did that again. Um, so, um, I wrapped up and graduated from high school, got back on track, stayed sober for a while, um, went on to college, I feel like college sometimes is your thirteenth year of your freshman year, um, I had a full ride scholarship, I just, one of the things I teach and I say to my students is college has nothing to do about how smart you are. It has everything to do with how disciplined you are because they’re gonna get you where you need to be, um, academically. It’s just, are you disciplined enough? And at that point I was not disciplined enough so in that process I lost a full ride scholarship.

34:55

Um, but in that time period, that’s when I got pregnant with [Redacted], my oldest, and she is the reason why I was able to finally make college a priority and buckle down and get it done in four years with working, living out on my own, paying my own bills, um, even though my parents are wealthy, nothing was ever really handed to me. I had to earn it, and if I borrowed it, it had to be paid back. So, some people may assume, “Oh well you got your college paid for by your.” No I didn’t. My parents didn’t pay for my college, they didn’t pay my bills while I was working, um, they just– they don’t, um, even though sometimes I feel like they could easily do that, but they don’t. Um, so I did finish that in four years, um, I– those were some good years of my life, um, my personality test. I'm an ESTJ, I’m an extrovert. I’m kind of the glue with all my siblings, I have great relationships with all my siblings. I have great relationships with people that I allow in my circle. I’m pretty cautious about who I allow in my circle, um, but, um, I like to laugh, like to have a good time, um, I’m pretty organized, pretty, um, flexible. I’m definitely compassionate, I understand a lot of points of life, it’s made me a well rounded person. Um, lots of things I said I would never do, I found that be careful what you say you’ll never do. I feel like God and life has a way of handing it right back to you and saying, “You said you weren’t gonna do what?” So, um, what I maybe considered, um, wild I’m starting to come to terms with the fact that it’s just who I am. Um, I have two very sides, two sides to me, I have a very conservative side, and then I have a very, kind of like, open-minded, liberal side, and I think that kind of ties back to how I was raised. Um, I remember my mom quoting the, you know, the Bible says to respect and obey your parents, so if your parents say something then that’s what you do. And now some people would say, “Well you didn’t do that though.” But a lot of times I did, and so a lot of their views I adopted as my own and just took them as that’s what my parents believed so that must be what’s right. That’s what it says in the Bible and I’ve just never kind of formulated my own beliefs about it. Um, I may be jumping around a little bit here. Um, so I went back and got my master’s degree because the relationship that I was in was abusive. He would say it was not. Pictures and videos and the factual evidence state otherwise. Um, I just remember one fight, him telling me that I needed to get out, that he paid the bill, the house payment, so I would need to be the one that would need to leave. And I remember I said to him, “Me finding a place to stay with all the kids is very different than you finding a place to stay. One head is very different than, you know, multiple heads.” And he just basically had said, “The kids stay with me.” And I remember thinking, yeah, that’s not gonna work for me. And um, the twins were a couple months old.

40:28

I had already started my master’s degree, I just kind of had plotted in my head ahead of time the– setting myself up to take on every bill financially would need to be something that was well thought out and well planned. And I needed to make sure that I was in a position that I could make more money to support the kids by myself. Um, and so school, school was always easy for me. My mom kind of jokes that I– she jokes that I’m like one of her smarter kids. Um, just because for so long I didn’t even really try and I made good grades, and then when I started trying when I went back for my master’s degree, I blew it out of the water, and I was working, and I was the department chair, and I was the [Redacted] campus coordinator with those seven kids and a toxic relationship. So, um, I’m definitely one of those people, like I said earlier, if I put my mind to something, that I’m going to do something, that I’m going to do it. That works in my favor and sometimes it’s not. Um, so school comes easily to me, uh, earlier I said this area is referred to as the Bible Belt for a reason. I was raised, and it was always, you know, so and so Baptist church, so I was raised in Baptist church but, I would say now I’m more nondenominational. I just don’t affiliate with, uh, any particular Pentecostal or Catholicism, or I just– not Baptist. Um, so, uh, growing up I went to church until I started working. And I started working at age 15. Then when I– the job actually allowed me where I didn’t have to go to church as much 'cause I was working. So it put– I was just not attending church as often, and it was, uh, I would say from there forward my visits to church got less and less. But I do have good memories in the church. Um, just growing up always being there while my mother was playing the piano or in the choir, or we sung in front of the church, or just mission trips, or those Sunday afternoon meals that were at the church. I have good memories of that. I don’t have any fire and brimstone stories. Um, going to Six Flags, um, my parents still go to church every Sunday. Uh, the last time we went to church was in January when my brother got baptized, and I hadn’t been to church before that, physically in the building, maybe about two years. No, I think I went last Easter. Just goes to show you that– yeah. But I am still a very spiritual person, I still read the Bible, um, I still pray. I do believe there is a God, I’m just a little bit more– my beliefs have changed a little bit. Um, with that being said, there are two beliefs that I don’t know if defending is how I feel about it, or I’ve just kind of had to take a stance in my family about it. Um, the two beliefs are homosexuality and abortion.

45:31

So I was just taught that those things are wrong biblically. The Bible is your plumb line and it says that those things are wrong, but, so I just adopted those beliefs as my own, but never really kind of explored through them. If I really, truly felt that way. Um, and my sister’s son is, um, he’s gay and, uh, I think, I suppose I knew way before he came out, but he’s my nephew and I’m super close with him and it just caused me to take a different view at what I had just blindly adopted as what I believe in. And then, um, abortion, I have seven children. People might say, “Well there’s such a thing as birth control out there.” Yup, there is. And I’ve pretty much been through every type of birth control that is out there. Um, anything that has a hormone in it gives me a headache, migraines. Severe migraines. Debilitating migraines. So then, we did an IUD, and it grew into my cervix and that was a whole fiasco getting that out. So I say I maybe wouldn’t have seven kids if maybe abortion had been an option. But I also want to say that my seven kids are not a regret so, they’ve made me who I am, but it’s not easy raising one child, much less seven. Um, so just to kind of piggyback on that, um, we were told you don’t have sex before marriage. You don’t. You wait until you’re married. And I think that my mom thought that if she put us on some sort of birth control that that would be agreeing, you know, basically saying that it was okay for us to have sex instead of being more aware, like, “Hmm my children have a tendency to do whatever they want anyways, maybe I should be proactive and put them on some sort of birth control.” But it just– that wasn’t the culture in our family. Um, biblically it says that you do not have sex until you get married, so you don’t have sex until you get married. So obviously that didn’t work out for me, um, so when I got pregnant there was never– abortion was never an option. That was just not even in the equation. Like, it’s off the table. What do you mean, abortion? Absolutely not. Um, I do remember my older sister having an abortion when I was 19 or 20 so that would have been ‘99-ish.

[Annotation 9]

50:31

And I don’t think the pill abortion was very prevalent then, so if you fast forward to where it gets me– where I share my story about not just one abortion, not two, not three, not four, but five abortions, I didn’t even know that there was a such thing as a pill abortion until 2019? Somewhere around there. I just– I had never had to travel that road, so I didn’t– I wasn’t even educated? You know pro-life, pro-choice, I just didn’t involve myself in that, I didn’t– it didn’t concern me so I didn’t feel like I needed to take a stance 'cause I’d had my seven kids and there we go. Um, so that brings me to, um, I had split with the twins’– well the four youngest girls’ father, and it was just an awful, even though I knew, even though I saw it coming, and I knew it was what was for the best, the abuse that I endured during the relationship and during the break up, the gaslighting and the manipulation and the lies, it was– it was– it was a dark spot in my life. Um, you talk about the divorce diet, I remember thinking they needed to bottle this lack of appetite I had and they needed to figure out– if they could bottle that– that would woo! That would sell like crazy 'cause I had no appetite, none. And, um, I ended up weighing like 126 pounds, I looked gaunt and sickly. Um, but some time went by and I ended up having kind of a, um, what it felt like I met this wonderful guy and, um, he kind of swept me off my feet, and he said all the perfect, right things and ended up getting pregnant with him the first time we had sex. Um, so when I– a month later when I noticed that my period is late and I take a pregnancy test and it’s, you know, two lines and I’m like, what is this? I know people might think, “Well this is not your first rodeo.” But actually it’s just– I remember kind of playing Russian Roulette a lot with having unprotected sex and just not getting pregnant, but it was like I had sex with this person one time and I got pregnant and it was like, whoa. And so when I told him that I was pregnant his immediate response was, “Have an abortion.” And I was like, “What?” Like, that’s not even an option, “What are you talking about, ‘Have an abortion?’” And all I’m thinking at this time is these horrendous stories that the media and propaganda put out about these surgical abortions and just you know, pro-life that’s been kind of like where I’ve been at my entire life.

[Annotation 3]

[Annotation 4]

[Annotation 9]

 55:23

And, um, I remember I was just very hurt and offended and angry, um, that’s your solution? Is abortion. I just– we fought, we argued, this is somebody I don’t even really know, I just met this person, I had sex with you one time and I get pregnant and, um, (sighs) it was just kind of, um, you know, they ask you if you are being forced to have this abortion? And I’ve always answered, “I’m not being forced to have this abortion,” because no one’s holding a gun to my head, but, um, there really was like no other option and it felt just with everything I had gone through, I just felt like okay, well, now that I know there’s such thing as a pill abortion, and it’s kind of been explained to me, and it’s essentially like a miscarriage, which I’ve had a natural miscarriage before, um, and that’s what he wants, then that’s what I’ll do. And so, uh, I went to Planned Parenthood and paid for it myself. He was of no assistance financially, uh, he was of no assistance emotionally, in fact it was my daughter who– she didn’t know what was going on at the time, I just said, “Hey I’m going to be in my room, just come and check on me every once in a while.” She was eighteen at the time. Yeah. Um, but I mean I didn’t tell her what was going on. I couldn’t really tell anybody what was going on. I think at that point only my younger sister knew. Not even anybody in my family. I couldn’t talk to anybody about it. Um, so I went through it alone. And, um, so I had my first abortion in August of 2019. Maybe it was 2018. 2018. I think it was 2018. And, um, September I heal, October I get pregnant– in October and I have a positive pregnancy test in November of 2018. So I didn’t even– 'cause it was chances again, guy number one. I didn’t even say anything to him this time, I just made the appointment, and about a week before I was scheduled to go in for my appointment 'cause there’s a, you know, process, whatever, I just told him, “I’m pregnant again. I’ve already made the appointment. I don’t want to talk about it.” Then for number two I went to Planned Parenthood by myself. I paid for it myself. I was there for myself emotionally, mentally, and it was my oldest daughter who was there in the home while I was in my room.

[Annotation 4]

1:00:28

And, um, December, January, February, March, now we’re December, so it happened in November, December, January, February, March, five months later, I am– the girls’ father, my four youngest girls’ father, we went from hating each other to somehow, you know, I think we decided to put our magic shoes on one night and escape to everything but reality, um, he was training in [Redacted] somewhere, and so I spent the weekend with him in [Redacted]. I remember driving back to [Redacted] and looking at my calendar and thinking oh shit. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say that on here. Um, oh shit, like, I’m kind of near an ovulation day, but what are the odds that that’s gonna happen? And I got pregnant the third time with the kids’, my girls’ father which would have been our, if you count the miscarriage I had first with him, and then the four girls, and you know, I guess this would have been our fifth kid. So I remember going to him and saying, “Hey, I got pregnant.” And of course, “Have an abortion.” And honestly I just– by that point, I had had two abortions, I was like I really just don’t want to be saddled with another kid with you. Like, you– I’m already going through what felt like hell with the four– for the four girls with him, and I just at that point I had already had two abortions, so here we go. Planned Parenthood, round three. Um, and I remember just looking at the workers and thinking it would get so easy to become desensitized to these women just, you know, coming in and getting abortions and just coming like– being callous and they weren’t. They were supportive and they were kind, and I remember looking around the room, this is– in Texas you got to remember where your abortion clinics are very few and far between because of legislation and the law that they had passed, the abortion clinic needed to be within X number of feet from the entrance of a hospital, so it shut down a lot of the clinics, I think there’s only like, there was maybe only like seven. And so when you go into this particular Planned Parenthood, in the waiting area, it’s packed. Now I don’t want to be presumptuous and assume everybody there was having an abortion, that’s– no. But I remember looking around and thinking, “I don’t think anybody comes here and just decides to have an abortion on a whim.”

1:05:20

Like I just don’t think it’s– like I look– you look around the room and it’s just, it’s somber, it’s quiet. We’re talking [Redacted], a packed room and you just– you realize that it’s a decision that everybody’s had to come to terms with, maybe it’s easier than sometimes, it’s easier than others, I just don’t feel like anybody joyously makes that decision. Um, which also, you know, you have people outside the clinic that are picketing, yelling, there’s signs. So it just– having three in relative quick succession just kind of cemented my– my belief in that I was doing what was right for me and that I didn’t have the capacity to take care of another kid. People, like I’ve– every rebuttal I’ve already heard, “Well then why’d you put yourself in a position to get pregnant again?” Well, why am I the only one getting blamed here? What about them, they knew, like I said, I don’t know how explicit I’m supposed to get, but, um, the experiences with the first three, um, you– you get the anti-nausea medication and they prescribe you a pain pill, um, or some sort of pain medication to take when you’re going through that second phase. Um, so when I, here soon, when I compare my abortions that’ll kind of make sense. Um, I was prescribed Tramadol for those first three abortions. Obviously pill number one you take it, and for me, I never felt any different at all. You take the pill and you go about your day. Um, and then they send you home with a little brown bag with your medication in it and your instructions, your anti-nausea medication pill and the four pills. Um, now (clears throat), Planned Parenthood always told me, we were instructed to put them in your cheeks. But putting them in my cheeks makes me cough or it would make me cough, then I’m thinking in my head, what if I’m having an allergic reaction to the medication, then I start getting a little anxious (clears throat), I say that because, uh, my, my other sister had a pill abortion and they had told her to insert them vaginally, and I was like, “Vaginally? What?” So I’m, uh, I have a tendency to research things on my own, so I discovered that, yes, you can insert these pills in your cheeks or you can insert them vaginally and they have pros and cons to both. So my first three abortions I felt like they went relatively uneventful? Um, I would take the medication, I would shut the blinds and the curtains in my room, I would turn the air down, turn the fan on, take the Tramadol and the anti-nausea medication, which also makes you a little sleepy, take the pills, swallow them, thirty minutes later, and I just kind of  remember sleeping through a lot of it, first getting up and going to the restroom but it’s just kind of getting up and going to the restroom and it not being awful.

1:11:15

Like, not being in a lot of pain, you know. Taking a shower, getting back in bed, having the heating pad on my back or my stomach, just kind of sleeping through it and, you know, four hours later, boom, you’re done. Um, and though sometimes I’d bleed for a day, maybe I’d bleed for a week, it seemed like my body got back to normal pretty fast. So after I had those three abortions, one of the things I didn’t realize was that the hormone in your body, uh, just depending on how far along you are, just, it may take a long time for it to leave your body, so when I had had that abortion number three, I ended up taking, uh, a pregnancy test in May and it said I was pregnant and I’m like, oh no. Like I can’t go down to Planned Parenthood a fourth time and be like, “Hey it’s me again, I’m a frequent flier.” And I just remember thinking I cannot, (sighs) I can’t show up there again. I’ve literally been there three times, um, but it ended up being I discovered that it wasn’t that I was pregnant, it was just that the hormone had taken a while to leave my body. So that was like a phew! Dodged that bullet. And so just with that being said, I just remember thinking, okay, I cannot, I cannot just show up there again and be like, “Hey it’s me again. Yes, you’ve seen me three other times recently.” Um, I feel like people’d be like, “Oh you’re using abortion as birth control.” No, I wasn’t. So I became a lot more careful. Assertive. 'Cause I didn’t want to go down there again. Regardless of whether or not I– I feel like I was making the best decision for myself and for my family, that’s still not something that’s easy for me to carry. I realize every woman is different, every story is different. I made the best decision possible with what I had, but I carry some sadness about it. Um, so because of that I was just much more careful. And so that fast forwards us to, um, last year. My dad died and hydration is key. Um, so my dad passing away. So I guess some people would say, “You have daddy issues.” Or some unresolved trauma from that. I don’t know. I know I loved my dad. But it definitely rocked my world. I think that it’s safe to say that burying your parent is difficult.

[Annotation 6]

1:15:33

So, last summer I think I was just really sad, and I met a guy, and he made me laugh, and I had a great time with him. And, um, kind of took me away from (clears throat) the overwhelming reality of life. (Clears throat) And I just– I– we weren’t as careful. But then again I have gained some weight, I feel like, you gain weight, it’s harder to get pregnant. I’ve gotten older, so really just wasn’t something I was concerned about, didn’t really think I could get pregnant anymore. People will say, “Well what makes you think that?” Well because I’m older and I’m (sighs) just there’d been times in the past where I had tested in between abortion number three and current times where I, you know, had maybe gotten a close call and had gotten a faint line on the pregnancy test but then it was like my period started. Um, so whatever that means, um, anyway, so I’m in a relationship with this new guy and I’m just enjoying life and, um, spent the whole summer with him. At this point we’re cohabitating, which is breaking a lot of my personal rules, but, um, school’d started and as a teacher it’s just, you’re slammed at the beginning of the year, and so my attention was a little spread thin. And I do remember telling him you know, “You know if I could stay with you in this– this cloud of not living in reality, that would be fantastic. But I have to come down to reality. I have a job, I can’t just take the day off when I want. I have kids, I have– like I can’t just up and decide that, you know, I want to be away from the house all day or I can’t just lay in bed all day or um.” But we were getting through that kind of and, um, school starts in August, September rolls around and, um, my brother and him were working on my car, and I remember they walked in right there and I’m standing in the kitchen and they’re like, “We need you to come outside.” And I’m like, “ugh.” I’m thinking in my head they messed something up in the car. So I’m looking at both of them like, and they’re like, “No we need you to come outside.” It’s September in Texas, the sun is setting, “guys I don’t want to sit outside.” But they had this look on their face and it was just very intense and all I could think of was they messed something up on my car. So they take me outside and I sit down and I’m looking at both of them like, “What?” My older brother told me I need you to sit down and I’m kind of irritated 'cause I’m thinking, the sun is shining on these seats and I’m about to sit down on these seats, but the way you guys are looking at me additionally is getting a little alarming. So I just sat down, I’m looking at my brother, like, the guy I had been with, [Redacted], you know, he’s sitting beside me, they’re both just looking at me very intense and they tell me [Redacted] was in a car accident and she died. So to explain that, that’s my sister’s– my older sister’s oldest daughter. Same age as my oldest daughter. So in those teenage years, those two were thick as thieves and she was like my other daughter.

1:20:46

I’m really, really close to my nieces and nephews. So I remember just looking at him and I’m like, “What?” Like, “You’re kidding.” Like I can’t even process it. So it’s May I lose my father, it’s September I lose my niece to a awful car accident (sighs) and in my grief I just I didn’t want anybody to– I wanted to be alone. I didn’t want to talk and so I broke up with [Redacted] that week. Only to find out I’m pregnant. So I was like, “Okay. I need all these loopty loops to stop.” So I had already broken up with him, hadn’t cried over him. I was just overcome with such grief with losing my niece and being supportive for my sister and my brother in law and my– my daughters, 'cause they were so close to her, that when I broke up with him, I– there were no tears for him 'cause they are all for [Redacted]. Um, so to find out I was pregnant (sighs) a week after we buried her, I was just like, “Wow.” And so I sent him a text message with the pregnancy test, you know. Pregnant. And, um, he was happy and he wanted me to keep it, and so I’m getting the complete opposite of one, two, and three. And I’m thinking, “Okay, you are not thinking. Who’s going to keep the baby while we go to work? I don’t want to start bottles all over again and diaper bags and car seats and–” only to really come to find out that in the state of Texas it is illegal now completely. Um, so now if you want to have an abortion, you have to travel to a different state. And I just remember thinking I can’t have another– I can’t have another kid. I can’t. So I’m getting the complete opposite reaction than maybe what I had wanted or expected. Um, and that’s when I contacted Aid Access and, um, I felt like I’ve had three abortions before, this is not my first rodeo. I can do this. Um, because I know the process that your body has to go through. I know the steps, I– from being pregnant, from having abortions, I have the anti-nausea medication and et cetera. Um, and so I contacted Aid Access and went through the steps, you take the first pill, nothing happens, then you wait, you know, twenty-four to forty-eight–ish hours and you take the next set, and the Aid Access instructions you can do them either through your cheek or you can insert them vaginally, now since I had done my research, I thought you know what? I’m going to do them vaginally this time.

[Annotation 10]

1:26:08

Uh, so I felt like [Redacted] was there and he was supportive with me, um, but it was very different than one, two, and three. Um, I remember it took– it felt like it took a long time for the pills to kick in versus I felt like maybe in your cheek it kicked in faster. Like, within thirty minutes to an hour you’re starting to cramp versus when I did them vaginally it took hours for them to kick in. Um, but when they kicked in versus, so when you put them in my cheek it just felt like it was a gradual steady build and then the process was just kind of smooth and then down. I felt like when I did it vaginally it was like nothing and then when you hit that peak it was ten or fifteen minutes of as my mom would say, “Grab the oh shit bar. It’s going to be a rough ride.” But [Redacted] was there for number four and he was supportive. I remember just feeling like when you dilate, you start to feel a little nauseous and I remember I was really hot. Um, and you feel like you need to go to the restroom, so I’m sitting on the toilet thinking do I want to take a shower and I’m burning up, just no actually, let me backtrack that. I’m freezing cold, freezing, shivering. Just the shakes. Um and he’s taking robes, towels, putting them on me, blankets wrapping me up and there’s like a heater we turn it on and, uh, and I was like two minutes later I’m hot. Get all this off me. Like, I’m about to pass out. Like, give me a wet washcloth. Um, and that was probably the peak of your– when you’re dilating and you’re expelling everything. Uh, but I just remember I was like, “Ugh.” I felt like a wet noodle. I had probably lost my color. I don’t look like I have much color right now, but um, just the– the shivers I had never experienced that with the other ones. So, um, after that very intense, uh, moment the bleeding was heavy, I would get up, go to the restroom, you know, you change your pad. Um, but I remember, you know, at some point you just put the heating pad on and go to sleep and um, I woke up and pretty much it was over.

1:30:13

Um, and then I went through an awful break up just where come to find out he was not, shocker, he was not who he presented himself to be. Um, you know, you had begged me to keep it, but yet you were starting another relationship. Love that, love that integrity. Love it. Um, so that happened in October? This past– 2022. Um, and then I have a guy that I have seen for the past few years like a– his best friend but we’re not just friends, every once in a while. And so in February we decided to get a room and some Casamigos and get drunk. Which I don’t even drink, just FYI. Remember? I don’t even drink. Um, had sex with him over the years, hadn’t gotten pregnant by him. So February comes around and we have our little rendezvous, and two weeks later, my period, I know when my period comes. I keep a period tracker, I know from my cervical mucus and et cetera, it’s not my first rodeo. So two weeks later I take a pregnancy test and it’s positive and I’m like, “Okay.”  I tell him I’m pregnant, but see this time I had a different approach because I’m tired of you– I don’t know if I’m allowed to cuss, okay. I’m tired of you motherfuckers telling me what to do with my fucking body. 'Cause at the end of the day you’re not paying for it, you’re not here supporting me, you’re not– it’s just– your solution is just have an abortion. It’s just thrown out there like some Tylenol. And so because I had gone through four other ones before and number four had felt kind of traumatic and I don’t mean– I just think that– I don’t think that it’s any different from Planned Parenthood to Aid Access, I just think it’s your body reacts differently at different times, different age. Um, it's not that I didn’t feel supported, it’s just my body reacted differently that time and, um, so number four kind of left me traumatized, um, in the sense that I was like, “Oh that was not as smooth as number one, two, and three. That wasn’t as easy as one, two, and three.” Um, and just because I’ve had four other abortions, I told him, “Don’t tell me what to do. Let me make this decision on my own. Please just let me make this decision without any outside ‘this is what you need to do.’ Let me do that on my own, please.” And so I remember we met up and we talked and he was like, “Okay.” You know, he was overwhelmed 'cause he has a girlfriend, and of course now you’re going to have this side, mystery child pop up? But I said I’m not going to spare anybody else’s feelings at the expense of my own. Like, just let me, if you love me, just let me do this and he was like, “Well I know what that means you’re gonna decide.” And I’m like, “No you don’t.” But it ended up where pretty much it was the same thing: have an abortion. And this time I just– I was just, um, I think all the, I don’t know, awareness and I don’t know, anger where it’s just so easy for you to suggest go have an abortion. Go take some Tylenol. Go take out the trash. Go have an abortion. Well what sort of money do you have for this?

1:35:56

Like, what are you bringing to the table? Are you going to be there for me emotionally? Are you going to be there for me because this is not my first rodeo. And so, um, one day later he of course comes back, “Have the abortion.” So we, you know, kind of fought back and forth over it, and even though I probably would’ve come to that conclusion on my own, I still felt that they were selfish in asking that. Um, so I had actually told him, 'cause he was what I considered one of my very close guy best friends, um, it made me lose respect for him. Not that I respect men, I think I hear my daughter coming, watch. Um, it felt like I just lost respect for him. Like I don’t respect men, many men, not that I’m a man hater, I just– I’ve been told what to do a lot with my body and how to think and how to feel, and it just feels like he kind of violated that. So I told him, “Fine. I’ll have an abortion, but I want you to sit and I want you to watch exactly what it is someone has to go through while you just flippantly suggest something.” He agreed to that. Since number four I had, you know the shivers and the how and cold, I decided this time I was going to take them normal, um, orally. Like I had done for number one, two, and three. Whew. That was– I’m glad that he wasn’t there because that was, um, it was similar to one, two, and three but then I had diarrhea with it. That was something I had never experienced before. So asking someone to sit here and watch what you go through like giving birth, um, I’m glad he wasn’t there 'cause that was a shitty situation, pun intended. Um, so, um, I feel like that changed my relationship with him, um, so and when I say all that, I say I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t go back and take any of them back. And have the kid, I just, I’m thankful those options were available. I’m angry that I feel like whether or not it was my parents or society, you’re forcing people into these situations, then you’re not giving them the support that they need. So in the state of Texas abortions are banned.

[Annotation 7]

 1:40:21

So you’re forcing people to have children, and I know the rebuttal is, “No you know you could not have sex, or you could use birth control, or–” it’s just not that– it’s not always that cut and dry. So you have people telling you what to do with your body, but they’re not supporting you or helping you, or it’s not as easy to get the support or the help. It’s expensive to be poor if that makes sense. And so in the state of Texas you’re looking at you can’t have an abortion but it’s incredibly difficult to qualify for assistance or benefits, too. So I don’t, I don’t regret the abortions. I wish things would’ve been different. That’s the best way I know how to explain it. Um, I’m thankful, um, that I don’t have children with them. Um, and my focus is for my, for my seven kids and myself. So, um, that’s basically my– my experience with my– that’s my story. Um– 

[Annotation 8]

[Redacted], thank you. I’m wondering, I’m realizing we never actually got a chance to talk further about it, and I’m wondering if there’s anything you want to share about your kids that is inspiring to you or that you’re proud of or anything like that.

My kids are the best thing– they’re the best thing that happened to me. They’re the best thing that hap– like they are the best from me and their fathers. Um, my kids are absolutely amazing. Um, I know parents say that, I mean most parents say that (laugher) and I get that people probably think I’m biased. My children are kind, they’re– they’re aware, they are– so I have six girls and I have one boy, and predominantly my son is raised by my parents. Um, I just felt like it was, um, the best situation for him considering that it’s– he’s got six siblings and, you know, me, and it’s a single parent household that, um, just I didn’t want my son to grow up to be a piece of shit man. And I wanted a man to show him. I can’t teach him those things. Um, plus just in a– he– in a house full of his siblings, woo. He just gets a little exasperated. So anyways, he’s very open and comfortable with that. He’s very well adjusted. Um, he calls me mom, he knows I’m his mom. But he does live with my parents, um, he’s got quite the different life, since he’s the only child and they both have their master's degree. He doesn’t ever have to– I mean he’s going to Canada, I had to go the other day or a couple weeks ago to get him his passport. So he has a very different life with my parents, but when I talk about my girls, my six, six out of the seven they are all very, very, very, very different. But one thing, it just really makes me proud of them is that they’re kind. In a world where you’re met with just such, with like bullies and just people who are not open minded or tolerant or compassionate or empathetic or– they are.

1:46:06

Um, and they’re smart and they’re funny and they’re witty and they’re self sufficient, and I’ve been told kind of that I’m a woman that runs with wolves in the sense that I kind of have a spirit that’s maybe not meant to be confined, but I also see it that I’m raising my wom– my daughters to be self sufficient and not have to go through anything that I went through. Um, so they’re, they are amazing. Um, my oldest made me who I am. She gave me the drive to finish college. Um, they’re very much, they’re gonna stick up for the underdog. Uh, [Redacted], well [Redacted] left to go pick up some of them from school, but, um, my second will probably graduate minimally within the top ten percent of her class, but she could easily, I joke that she’s going to be the valedictorian or the salutatorian. They’re– they’re very bright. Um, one of them has been diagnosed with like an auditory processing disorder, dyslexia, and dysgraphia. Um, but her visual processing is very high, it’s also just teaching me all of the older ones have been very off the charts smart, that smart comes in a different form. So I’m– they keep teaching me. Um, and I really don’t know where I would be without them, I mean, we laugh, we have a good time and, I mean, we really laugh. I asked my daughter what she thought my best quality was, my– my looks or my smarts, or my humor, and she said, “Definitely your humor, mom.” And, um,  so yeah, I love them to pieces, I would– I’d do anything for them. Um, they’re good kids, yeah.

Um, [Redacted] before we finish for today, is there anything else you want to share?

I feel like you got a pretty good– there’s definitely some other, I mean that’s– that’s definitely no. That was a lot. That was a lot. I don’t know how many people have that, that many kids and that many abortions. I mean I don’t know (laughter). Like, I don’t know, so I just hope that maybe. I used to say maybe I wouldn’t have seven kids if I would have known that abortions were available. But, like, I wouldn’t take them back, but it just– I've become much more of a this is my body, you’re not going to keep telling me what to do with my body. And then I mean whether that’s a vaccination or my mental health or, um, maybe there’s someone out there who has a similar background. I always read stories when I hear and the woman’s like, “Oh I knew exactly that’s what I was going to do and I don’t carry any guilt about it or I don’t carry.” And I’m like, “I don’t know if I can necessarily relate to that story.” Um, and so maybe I feel like different views maybe need to be heard so that someone can say, “You know what? I can relate to that story.” I mean, I don’t know, I don’t know, I just have never really come across a story like mine where someone has said they’ve looked around the room and they’ve identified that this probably was no easy decision. It always seems like it was something easy when I read these stories about women deciding to have an abortion. That it was easy for them. I don’t know if that was necessarily my case, so, not that I regret it, it’s just, wasn’t easy, so, yeah. That’s my story. We did our two hours, though.

[Redacted] thank you so much, I really do appreciate it. I’m going to stop the recording here.

[Annotation 5]