Cosmetologist in Indiana

This cosmetologist lives in Indiana and has two children. Her one child requires intense medical treatment and care. She was on birth control when she became pregnant again and so decided to utilize Aid Access to access abortion pills. Her decision felt like her only feasible option. She believes that this type of healthcare should be something that can be accessed legally and locally.

“I feel like your emotions are more kind of hurting than your actual body. It took me– I think I had sat with that first round of pills for probably thirty minutes before I was actually able to take them because I was really having to psych myself out, like, is this what you wanna do? Like, ‘cause I feel like in situations like that you really have to be 100%.”
— Cosmetologist in Indiana

ANNOTATIONS

1. Pregnancy, Education - For people who can become pregnant, pregnancy is the most common family-related reason for dropping out of school. According to a study conducted by Civic Enterprises in 2006, it was found that 26% of students reported dropping out of school due to having a child. Additionally, according to the 2007-2008 Longitudinal Survey of Youth, out of the people who got pregnant before 20 years old, just 51% of the surveyors had received their high school diploma before the age of 22. Many of these students were expected to graduate and reported doing well in school before becoming pregnant. A more recent study conducted in 2018 and 2019 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention determined that about out of young people that fall pregnant during high school, about 50% of them will receive their diploma by age 22.
2. Young Parents, Teen Parents - The narrator often talks about how much she loves her children, but she also mentions the hardships that come with being a young parent. There can be risks involved with having children at a young age, such as poverty and mental health problems, but not all young parents face these struggles. Although young parents can lack essential life skills, resources, and the mental and emotional stability to raise a child, young parents also report benefits of having kids at a young age. Younger parents report having higher levels of energy when caring for their children than older couples, as well as less complications during pregnancy. Young parents often receive more support from their parents and avoid the "sandwich generation," or the process of caring for children while also caring for older, retired parents. According to the Pew Research Center, about 36% of people that can get pregnant reported that having children young opened them up to more opportunities to pursue professional leadership positions, while 40% replied that waiting to have children would help them be more established in their career.
3. Reproductive Healthcare, Access to Healthcare, Title X - The narrator's experiences at her primary care provider could be related to the ongoing legislation around Title X. Title X was established in 1970 as a federal grant program that provides family planning and preventative health services. Clinics that accept federal funding must comply with the standards of Title X. In 2019, the Trump administration added new provisions to Title X, including the Gag Rule. The Gag Rule prohibits doctors from referring patients to abortion services and created requirements to block Planned Parenthood health centers, and other health care centers that provide abortion care, from receving funding through Title X. The Biden Administration has focused on rebuilding Title X. The Department of Health and Human services clarified that doctors can still provide information about abortions, but physicians are concerned with possible prosecution for referrals.
4. Health Care, Abortion Access, Abortion Restrictions - It is not specifically stated that the narrator’s health care provider dropped her under suspicion that she had an abortion, but it is possible considering providers now have to navigate abortion care differently and follow new restrictions. Across the country, abortion laws are fluctuating and forcing health care providers to treat pregnant patients differently than they did before the 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson decision. Health care providers must navigate rapidly changing policies with complicated language and standards, and they face possible legal repercussions for either providing or refusing to provide an abortion.
5. Child Care, Children with Disabilities - The narrator talks about her son many times and the difficulties that he and her family faces. She mentions that he had to start school late because of his at-home treatments, and how it's hard to find anyone else to take care of him besides their family members. It is hard to find child care for a lot of families, but 34% of families with a child that has a disability report difficulties in finding care, compared to families with nondisabled children, 25% reported difficulties. The narrator also talks about how she had to stop working for a while to take care of her son. She is able to work more now that he is older, but still does not have a full-time job. Parents of children with disabilities often have to make changes to their jobs or face job disruptions due to the problems in child care. A study conducted by CAP found that most interviewees were devoting a significant amount of time to child care out of concern, cost, and frustration with the child care system. Additionally, like the narrator, parents worry about the quality of care their child with a disability will receive, not all child care programs are properly equipped to care for a child with a disability. It can be hard for families with a disabled child to find care that is accessible and provides the proper care for their child’s specific needs.
6. Medical Abortion Process - Medical abortions use medication to terminate a pregnancy rather than surgery. This process of abortion utilizes two pills, mifepristone and misoprostol. Mifepristone is used to block the hormone progesterone, thus stopping the growth of the fetus. Misoprostol is taken after mifepristone to clear the uterus of the fetus and pregnancy tissue. Misoprostol can be taken either orally (buccal or sublingual) or vaginally. The narrator discusses her own research on how to take the abortion pills, where she found that taking the pill vaginally yields the best results. A study conducted by the European Journal of Medical Research found that taking misoprostol orally can increase the duration of the abortion, but this method had less side effects. The study concludes that physicians should recommend what method of taking the pill on an individual basis.
7. Abortion Bans, Access to Healthcare - Medical abortions are more accessible than surgical abortion to people living in states with restrictive abortion laws. Legislators trying to ban all access to abortions are questioning the effectiveness and safety of the pills to possibly get them banned. In 2000, the FDA approved the abortion pill mifepristone after four years of testing, concluding the drug is safe and effective. Recently, this verdict is being challenged by legislators in Texas, with the possibility of other states following suit. A federal judge in Texas ruled to suspend the FDA’s approval of mifepristone, claiming that the FDA rushed the approval of this ‘dangerous’ drug. Later that same day, a federal judge in Washington ruled in support of the FDA’s 23-year standing approval. The two contrasting rulings from Texas and Washington will likely result in a Supreme Court case to decide if the FDA’s approval is valid and if mifepristone can still be administered as a safe abortion drug. The case is ongoing and could lead to further restrictions on abortion, especially medical abortions. The narrator alludes to these legal battles when talking about the different methods of taking abortion medication. She voices frustration on having to overthink these decisions due to the legal repercussions that might result from accessing basic healthcare.
8. Cost of Abortion - All abortions, medical and surgical, are banned in Indiana where the narrator is from, so she had to find other options for getting an abortion. In states that have little-to-no restrictions on abortion, a medical abortion can cost up to $800. Surgical abortions in the first trimester can also cost up to $800, and the cost rises as the pregnancy progresses, costing up to $2,000 in the second trimester. These prices vary by state and provider; Planned Parenthood reports that patients usually pay less than these prices. Planned Parenthood provides medical abortions for around $580, and surgical abortions for around $600. Our narrator decided to use Aid Access’s services because she could afford their services and go through the process in the comfort of her own home.
9. Medical Abortion - #WeCount’s April 2022 to June 2023 report, found a 72% increase in medical abortions provided by virtual-only services. Before the Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization decision in 2022, medical abortions made up about 5% of abortions, and twelve months after the decision, more than 8% of abortions were performed through virtual-only clinics. Abortion is banned in the narrator’s state, so she decided to get abortion pills from Aid Access to have a medical abortion at home. More people are choosing to have a medical abortion because it can be more accessible in states where abortion is restricted or banned. Medical abortions can be performed earlier than surgical abortions—the pills can be taken in the first four weeks of pregnancy—whereas surgical abortion, using the suction curettage method, can be performed as early as five weeks. Medical abortions can be performed at home, and are supported by telehealth, giving the patient more privacy instead of going to a clinic for a surgical abortion. Both abortion options have similar effectiveness; 95% to 97% of people report the medication is effective and 98% of surgical abortions are successful. Medical abortions can also cause heavier bleeding compared to the surgical method; surgical abortions typically cause light bleeding after the procedure. Risk of infection and injury is higher with surgical abortions because instruments are used that could possibly introduce bacteria or harm to the patient.
10. Post-Abortion Emotions - Although it was a hard decision for the narrator to make, she does not regret her decision to have an abortion and feels that she made the right choice for her and her family. Many people report feeling relieved after having an abortion, but also report feeling guilt, shame, or depression after the procedure. These reactions are natural and normal, as having an abortion is a challenging decision that can be emotionally taxing. The shift in hormones caused by abortion could cause the person’s emotional symptoms to be intense. It is recommended that, after an abortion, people seek support from their loved ones, and, if the symptoms do not go away, they should contact a healthcare professional.

TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

Interview conducted remotely

May 4, 2023

Transcription by Ainsley Fisher

Annotations by Ainsley Fisher

[00:00:00]

My son was at the hospital, and so early yesterday morning, and thankfully we didn’t have to be flown out, he was fine but, oh man I was so tired. And I think what happened was my daughter, she had had my phone, and when it rings she likes to answer it, so I don't know if her dad, like, maybe thought it was a robo call and hung up or if she just hung up, but thank you for being understanding [laughs].

No– no problem. Um, I just got the recorder set up, so we are actually recording now [Redacted]. So let me go ahead and just play the call, and you can get started from the very beginning. So today is Thursday, May 4th, 2023, it's about 12:19 pm Eastern Time. This is Dan Swern conducting an interview over the phone, and I am here interviewing– can you say your full name please?

[Redacted]

[Redacted], thank you again so much for your time and your just generosity and just participating in this project. Whenever you are ready, feel free to start.

Okay, thank you. Um, so, basically, um, we’re here today just because I had chose to, um, do an abortion. Um, some of my earliest memories as a child are, um, growing up in a pretty full and happy home, um, as I stated to you previously, I grew up with my mother and my grandma and grandpa, and then my great-grandmother, all living in the same household. Um, I have one sister. I think we grew up in a pretty trauma-free household for the most part. I have a lot of happy memories from when I was pretty young, growing up. Um, my mom was a bartender when we were really young, and I don’t really remember my dad being in the picture too much, um, from what my mom had told me when we were young. They were married, when she had gotten pregnant with me, I was born in ’89, and they just kinda fell out fast. My dad kinda had a hard time dabbling in drugs, and he used to be super against drinking and any sort of drugs that I was told when I was little. So, um, I guess when I was a baby he was around quite a bit with his family being involved, because he comes from a large family with, like, seven brothers and sisters, if I’m correct. So, yeah, he basically was out of the picture so my mom had filed for divorce and left their house that they were purchasing together and moved back home. Um, her parents, my grandmother and grandpa, they owned a home and took care of my mother’s mother.

So, like I said, it was basically a pretty happy home, me and my sister, I feel like we were decently spoiled, um, you know, we got a lot of things that we wanted. My grandpa still worked outside of the home and my mom, she was gone a lot when we were really little, um– she would bartend at night. She had met my, uh, stepdad actually where she was bartending, he had ran a, um, American Legion. Um, so she was bartending there and had met him when I was about 5 years old I believe, maybe a little younger than that. And, um, she was pretty happy with him, obviously I didn’t like him too much but, um, he is a great guy now, we’re very close. My mother, she passed away in 2008. She had done bartending until I was. um, [pause] maybe 9, I would say, around that time, and she had got her real estate license, and she started doing real estate and selling properties and, um– we had finally moved out on our own. My grandmother, which was my mother’s mom, she had got a divorce from my grandpa, they just weren’t working out. We never knew that they had had problems just because they were pretty good I guess at hiding that stuff from us. I always remember them being happy, but I guess they never were. Um, so they had gotten a divorce and my grandma pretty much up and left. We didn’t see her for I believe six months, just because it kinda tore our family apart, I was really young but I remember there was a lot of tears with– with my aunts and uncles with her leaving, most of them were off at college or, you know, pretty grown by that time. Um, so we had kinda lived on our own for the first time, uh, my mom, she still worked quite a bit, it's just kind of her hours had changed from night hours to day hours. Um, so we grew up after she had switched careers to her being more gone in the morning then, you know, and getting home more late at night. But, um, [pause] it was kinda an adjustment just because I was so used to somebody being at our house all the time, and my grandma helping us with our homework, for instance, when my mom was working, so that was a little hard. That was probably the hardest time I think I had had in my life when I was maybe 10-11-12 years old, was just kind of getting used to the differences in that.

[6:17]

Other than that, I feel like I had a pretty good childhood once I kind of got used to, you know, the changes and– and how I was used to living versus how we were living now. My mom always kept the house separate from my stepdad just because he was, of gosh, I– I believe like twenty years older than her, so she would stay with him sometimes, um, on the weekends, and we would stay at our house with my grandma, and she would, you know, kind of spend time equally between us and him, and that always bothered me a little bit.

Um, I was like of– my little sister’s protector, so I guess kinda had some resentment with her after she had got with him that I felt like I kind of almost took a parent role because she was gone a lot of the time, even though my great-grandmother was at home with us. I kinda got left with having to cook and clean because she was older and kinda couldn’t do that stuff completely on her own. So, um, when I was an early teenager me and my mom kind of butted heads over that, because I guess I was needing my mother more than she was there. She was a great mom, she just, I think sometimes she really didn’t know how to just be a parent full time. So, as I got older, like I told you before, me and my sister, we never really drank or got into drugs or anything like that, my sister was like a straight A student, I was more of a A-B-C student, um, and kinda had more friends, and I was a cheerleader, I did volleyball, um, things like that. But once I got a little bit older I did how most kids do, you know like, drink here and there and, you know, sneak out every once in a while and, you know, things like that. But for the most part I feel like we were pretty good kids.

[8:27]

When I had turned 18, I had started massage therapy school out in [Redacted], Indiana and it was going pretty good, um, but I had actually gotten pregnant, so I had stopped doing that for the time being. I always kinda wanted to go back to that, but I guess I just, you know, it just didn’t interest me enough to stick with that. So my son was about 7 or 8 months old when we started noticing, like, he was having some issues. I had had him in 2008, and we just noticed he wasn’t developing like as, I guess, a baby should as quickly. So we started seeing, like, the doctors more often, and started seeing a neurologist, um, because they thought he was having seizures. So I kind of went from being still young myself and having no responsibilities to kind of just all of the sudden getting pregnant then having all this, you know, to deal with, and then having a child with, you know, something serious going on. So it actually took a few years for them to, um, really kind of get the gist on how bad issues he was having. He did end up finally being able to get the testing once it became available, the genetics testing, to find out he had Alternating Hemiplegia of Childhood. Which is about 600 cases worldwide, it’s super, super rare, and, um. So we had figured that out when he was probably about 6 or 7 years old, the testing was just not available at the time, so they were just pretty much just treating him for, like, epilepsy and, like, failure to meet milestones and things like that. So that was really hard, I had kind of went into a little bit of a depression around that time, like I remember my life, I guess the best way to put it was, I feel like I was kind of on autopilot at the time, like I was going through the motions of the day and getting things done but its like I almost wasn’t really living during that time. So I feel like I have very sporadic memories during then just ‘cause I think it was so traumatic. So basically from there we kind of decided to not have anymore children, just because he was doing pretty good then but we were doing, like, therapy in the home, um, he wasn’t in school yet at this time. He had to start school two years late just because he was having issues with things like that so, um, it was just a lot, it was a lot on all of us. So, I guess we just never planned to have more children, which kinda leads us into our conversation today I guess.

[Annotation 1]

[11:54]

But he’s doing pretty good now, um, he’s on a special medication that comes from India and that seems to be helping him quite a bit. So were just really super thankful for that but, um, anyway, I had bin on and off on birth control, I pretty much was on it the whole time and I had actually gotten pregnant with my daughter. I had switched birth controls, um, and at this time my son was 11 years old, so it was definitely a big, big age gap, and, um, we were shocked. I was pretty terrified of the situation as well, and basically we just kinda decided, like, we would go through all the rounds of genetic testing I had to have, like CCV testing and all kinds of blood testing, and then do like an amnio just to kinda make sure that everything was okay with my daughter. Um, everything was good so we decided to continue with the pregnancy and then, you know, kinda just go from there, and figure it out. In January– January 9th of 2020, we had had my daughter. Um, my son was doing still pretty good medically, so we just had to get used to everything changing up because we all decided– had another child, but we don’t have a whole lot of family now. My fiancé, he’s the father of both of my children, but we just never got married, but we have a pretty good relationship. Um, I did end up going back to school when my son was 4, I believe, so this was, um, roughly 2012, and I had got my cosmetology license so I was working from the time he was probably 5 until maybe two years before I had had my daughter. Now, I still do hair and things like that, and I did get my aesthetician’s license in 2017, and I still do hair from home. The goal is to have a shop of my own at some point or get another job outside of the home. We’re just kind of still figuring all that out with my daughter because she just turned 3 and my son seems to be, like I said, doing good on this medicine, but we just have a lot of extracurriculars going on, so I do like the freedom of just working from my home doing friends and family’s hair and stuff as clients for now so that works.

[15:04]

But anyway we had been doing pretty good, kinda getting into the feel of, you know, taking care of two children. And, um, basically about, it's been about four months ago now, I had– I was super sick, I had been on birth control but I had switched medications again and I had had a, um, [pause] I don’t know if it was strep throat, or something along those lines, where the same doctor who was giving me my birth control put me on antibiotics. And I never really realized that you couldn’t, like it would kinda lower the threshold of birth control. So, um, [pause] I had taken the antibiotics, and then I had found out I was pregnant, like, six weeks later, so, um, of course I was super scared and upset, and kinda didn’t know what I was gonna do just because I had kinda had these feelings with my daughter a little bit as far as I didn’t know if I should have an abortion. Back then we were dealing with a lot of stuff with my son at the time I had gotten pregnant with my daughter, which obviously I had her, so I decided not to go any sort of route like that, like as far as abortion or adoption or anything. And I’m so thankful I had done that just because, like I said, we don’t have a lot of family, my fiancé, he doesn’t really talk to anyone in his family. Um [pause] he– his is mother and his father are both passed away, my mother died in 2008 and, um, I speak with my aunts and uncles and stuff, but a lot of them like, um, several of my aunts and uncles have, like, nursing degrees so they are kinda all around Indiana and Georgia. So we just really don’t, aside from my one aunt who I see very regularly and my grandma here and there, who I used to live with when I was a kid. We just don’t really have a whole whole lot of support, especially with my son, how he is, um, you know, I can’t just take him to be watched by anybody or, you know, like put him in any sort of program or anything like that. I’m definitely super overprotective of him especially. So it was just a lot. So I had kinda looked at options on what I could do. This was right, not too long after like the Roe vs. Wade was overturned so, um, I know when I had looked into, um, like possibly an abortion for my daughter, which that makes me so feel terrible to even talk about now that I was even considering that an option but, um, I had looked at a nice place in Illinois, and it was literally like a quarter of of the price, like, I think it was around like $350 total with a $50 discount for, um, out-of-state patients, and here where I’m at in Indiana it– it's almost $1000 to get an abortion, and I don’t even know if they even offer it here now since– since the laws were recently just kind of changing around that time. But, um, I had looked into that and, um, [pause] I just didn’t think that was gonna be an option to really have to travel to try to get something like that done and I was afraid to do that.

[Annotation 5]

[Annotation 8]

[19:00]

Basically so, um, I had looked on TikTok, I had talked to a couple people on there who I had followed who I know had had things like that done just because I didn’t really want to talk to any of my close friends about it just because I feel like the stigma. Um, my aunt, that I told you I’m really close with, she– she knew and my son and daughter’s father he obviously knew and was gonna be supportive of whatever decision I made. I just kinda weighed the pros and cons and really just decided that that was gonna be the most selfless thing for my son, who already takes so much, um, just time and, you know, just effort with all his medical stuff. So basically, long story short, we had decided to go ahead and go through with an abortion, um, I had found that, um, uh, a place called Aid Access online was going to be, like, our best option, um, I wasn’t super far along, um I did end up going to the doctor when I first thought something was wrong. I actually thought I was sick and they had did an ultrasound on me, um, to, like, check my stomach and it actually wasn’t even like a prenatal ultrasound, and that’s how I had found out I was pregnant. So it was actually on record already with my doctor’s office that, you know, I had had, you know, I was pregnant, they gave me a pregnancy test that day and, um, they only estimated that I was like four weeks or so. So, um, I was afraid, like, how I would even be able to pull that off, like they give you very good instructions through Aid Access, like basically they tell you, like, not to tell your doctor anything because you can get in trouble, like, basically, you know, they’ll send you these pills you do, like a, um, basically like over-the-phone-type consultation and make sure you you’re even eligible, and it's a super quick process. It really was, you know, it– for a hard of a thing that it was, they made it a lot easier, I feel like, than me trying to figure something out on my own or even go somewhere on my own.

[Annotation 9]

[21:35]

So I think I had got the medicine and the whole process done within three weeks, which would of only put me at like less than eight weeks estimated. And, like I said, I don’t, you know, my aunt was over and my fiancé and we just kinda did the process and just followed the instructions precisely and, I mean, everything worked. Um, [pause] I obviously still feel bad for the decision I chose, I don’t regret it but I just really didn’t see another option at that point. So we did the process, everything was okay. Um, I was super worried and anxious the whole time and like something would go wrong or the pills wouldn’t work. Um, [pause] but everything I guess you could say worked how it was supposed to. Um, Aid Access even had checks on me; they actually just sent me an email like two weeks ago just checking on me and, like, telling me they were there to provide resources, like, anything I would need and things like that, so that makes me feel really safe. Um, the whole process was $105 compared to when I had originally checked here and it was so expensive through Planned Parenthood. Um, but like I said, I don’t even know if those services are available here now with all the laws that have changed recently. But they were great, [pause] they took care of everything, I mean they gave me, like, really good instructions, checked on me afterwards. Um, so like I said, the process was, I guess, as easy as it could’ve been during that. But my doctor’s office, I don’t want to say that they’re like a Christian-type doctor's office, but they definitely steer you away from, you know, doing anything like that, even so like with adoption, I feel like they could kinda be the type of people to even steer you from that, so they kept calling me to schedule my next visit and, you know, I was like not sure what to say. I had told them, like, I was out of town and, you know, things like that, and I waited a few weeks. And I feel like they were very suspicious, but I'm a bad liar anyway so I don’t know if they kinda got a bad vibe off of me, but basically I went to my doctor’s visit and, um, just had told them that I had miscarried when I was in, on a trip to [Redacted], which I didn’t even go to [Redacted], I literally had to go to like this big thing basically to lie, so I was super nervous anyway, and after I had left, which they did the testing, you know, figured out obviously I wasn’t, like, pregnant and, um,  then they had called me a few days later, um, and the nurse was like really rude with me and she wanted to know what happened and, you know, I told her basically what I had told them when I was there, they just said like, you know, they were kinda suspicious and, you know, they asked me what hospital I went to if I, you know, thought I had had a miscarriage. I had already looked one up that I thought would be safe, ‘cause it wasn’t in, like, their network or anything, and they just said, like, to continue to see them to even provide any sort of like women’s services that I would have to send over my paperwork or that they were going to get rid of me as a patient.

[Annotation 3]

[Annotation 10]

[25:41]

And I had been seeing them since I was like 16 years old. Like, they had switched three times, I had been there through all of that. Like, I had went there longer than a lot of the doctors that were even there for years, you know, so that like definitely bothered me, but I didn’t know what else to do at that time because I felt like I, for one, was gonna be so shamed over it, and they were just gonna think I was this horrible person, and that I could get in trouble for wanting to access basic healthcare that should be, you know, any woman’s right. Um, so that really hurt me, like, I was very, very upset of the fact that I had pretty much gotten kicked out of somewhere that I felt safe as far as, you know, getting, you know, healthcare from in the first place. I was getting my birth control there and, you know, I saw the same doctor there for I think like five or six years at the time, which I did talk to the doctor after the fact, and I had never told him but, you know, he told me he did not agree with the policies and procedures that the [Medical Center] had in place, but there was really nothing he could do about it, so I definitely think that we had a close enough relationship where he maybe understood what had had happened without wanting me to say it. But, um, yeah I was pretty upset about that, I– I cried a few times about how I felt like I was treated and that was pretty sad to me. I think, like, honestly like getting over, like, everything that I had already had to go through during that time where it's like a very emotional time, like, I definitely felt like that alone was one of the very hardest things out of that– that whole situation and experience I had dealt with. I just felt like it was unfair treatment, I felt like they had targeted me and, you know, just the way I was talked to after. I had always had a great relationship with pretty much everyone in that office, that they would just drop me like that as a long time patient, because I wasn’t willing to provide documents that I didn’t even have because, you know, I wanted to be safe and do the right thing for my family and my child who, you know, every other month I’m in the hospital with, for, you know, him, his breathing going down to 64%, and him having really bad seizures, and P-Stating, you know, and already, like, knowing that, if– if her dad has to go to work, that I have to find somebody, like hope my aunt’s not at work too, you know, like, watch my child while I’m in the hospital knowing that, you know, there’s a chance we may have to go [Children’s Hospital], which is in Indianapolis, which is like an hour and a half away from where we are, so that’s a lot, you know, especially when I've just had the one son for so long, where I can pick up and leave and not have to worry about something happening and, you know, like now I have this other child who’s, at the time, 2 years old, that I have to worry about, you know, where am I gonna take her if– if my son has a seizure, or like is my aunt gonna be off work because, you know, my fiancé can’t take another day off work type stuff. He’s a CDL driver. He’s home everyday but he leaves at like three o’clock in the morning to go and run routes for a big milk distribution company, so he just can’t, you know, just call off all the time, like, you know, he has routes that he has to get done, so its just its a very hard thing to try to figure out with having two children. And that’s really what played into lot of my decision was, well, what am I gonna do with two children when my son goes to the hospital like, you know, like I just felt like it was [pause] selfish of me to already take time that I was stretching between both of my children to have to stretch that even further, you know.

[Annotation 4]

[30:22]

Um, I– I do still feel bad about it though. I feel like people who get abortions and act like they feel no type of way, I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but I definitely feel like every woman kinda always has that in the back of their head. You know, the shoulda coulda woulda, or what if it was different, what if I had made a different choice but, and I have that. I just– I feel like that’s normal but, um, at the end of the day I don’t regret my decision, um, I feel like, you know, my son is thriving a lot better. He had went to the hospital, um, two nights ago and he, um, that was the first time he had been at the hospital in a year and a half, where before we were going, you know, every– every other month and usually having to go to our children’s hospital an hour and a half away and him be intubated and, you know, none of that happened. Like yesterday morning we had gotten out at like 8:00 a.m. and, you know, we got to come home, and the worst of it is like he has a few IV pokes and, you know, we’re tired like he’s, you know, I feel like I have more of the residual effects than he does, like he comes home and he doesn’t remember anything, like he’s happy and healthy and, you know, I’m so thankful that he’s doing so much better, and I think that he’s thriving because we are able to spread our time pretty good between both kids. You know, we make it a priority– my son goes to therapy a lot, he does a lot of therapy in school and outside of school, he sees six different doctors including a neurologist and geneticist, so we’re always doing a lot of traveling, and I guess I just felt that I needed to do what was best for the children that I already have. Um, [pause] so I guess that’s just what I tried to do at the time and, like I said, I definitely feel like it was the right decision for our family. Um, I do still feel sad about it sometimes but, like I said, I feel like that’s a human feeling is to, you know, have guilt about that stuff, and I’ve learned to take steps back and I know that stuff is okay and, you know, obviously there is no going back anyway. But I just try to do the best I can for what I’m given, and so I will always believe, like, women should have rights, like you know, basic healthcare rights, and I believe that’s basic healthcare. And I had always kinda was against abortion and stuff before it had happened to me, so people might think that I’m like picking and choosing or split sides, because I was always against it until it happened to me, but really I just didn’t understand it I guess in a way. And now I feel like I’m definitely pro-choice, like, no matter what the reason, like its your body, it's your choice, like I have never understood the meaning of that so much until– until it happened to me and I really fully understood that.

[34:00]

[Pause] But it's hard– it's hard. It's hard to even talk about today. Like I feel like we kind of, me and my fiancé, we just don’t talk about it. Like, honestly he didn’t even know that I was, had been doing the interview, not because he would be against it just because, like it hurt him, you know, like of course I wish we were in a better position to where, like, we wouldn’t have to do that but all that really matters is like what– what we are going through now, and like, at this time, it wasn’t even so much of a thing with money, because I feel like as long as you have a happy home, you can afford just basic things, like, your kids thrive. I mean kids thrive literally getting food stamps and, you know, barely making it, like kids can still just be as happy as ever. But I just, I definitely think it bothers him, and then it gets me really upset, like, when we talk about it. So like after we had kinda dealt with the situation, we just almost, even though it sounds bad, we almost make it like it never happened. Like when we moved on, it's just almost like we erased, you know, that– that bad thing that happened, and it's almost like we we don’t live with it, but it does, like I think about it quite often, and I’m still sad about it even though I know we made the right decision, it still definitely does affect me sometimes. And, you know, I do wish that we were in a better place, but at the end of the day, [pause] I mean it is what it is, like I said, I would never judge someone for making that call, as long as they, you know, truly felt in their hearts it was a right thing to do. So, [pause] hopefully we can, you know, change some of these laws, and I feel like and do the right thing. Um, but I don’t know, I guess I’m– until then I’m very thankful that we do have some sort of access to that type of care, um, but I just like, it shouldn’t be at that type of cost to where you have to be afraid of, “Oh my gosh what if something happens and I have to go to the hospital, and I’m afraid I’m gonna get arrested.” Or, you know, “What if they find out, like, what if they see these pills,” like, you know, “what if something happens with the mai,l or what if I don’t have the $105 to pay.” I know they told me they did do a program that if you did not have, like, the money to pay that they could basically go ahead and give you the medication. I thought it was a good call so, and I– I did have the money, so I probably never would’ve asked for any sort of comping on something like that, I guess unless I really desperately needed it. But anything can happen, like, you know, like the mail isn’t in their control, so I mean if something would’ve happened and those pills would’ve gotten lost and then, you know, what if they didn’t come for two months. I mean you basically would be screwed, for lack of a better word, and, you know, would’ve possibly had to go on with a pregnancy that you didn’t want, or you know financially couldn’t afford or just, you know, that you would’ve been doing all on your own and not have support, like that’s what I think is wrong about stuff like that. I feel like we shouldn’t have to go to, like, such great lengths, even though they make the process easy. I just felt like that was a lot of stuff to have to do like and to go about hiding it and get kicked out of, you know, a place I had gone for years, like, I just definitely felt like that part of it was, you know, crazy, because I can go right now go to the pharmacy and buy Plan B and you don’t get looked at any sort of way, but yeah its just its crazy times I don’t like– I mean we're all doing okay, I just feel like we are trying to survive like everyone else, but I mean I’m happy, like I said, I’m happy with the decision we made and, you know, my son is doing good, my daughter is doing amazing and she’s super smart and loves her brother and wants to take care of him all the time, so I really look at like all the good things we have in our life and, you know, that really makes me see that we made the right decision. So I hope, you know, my story can hopefully help somebody else and, you know, people won’t want to just jump to judging, because none of us know each other’s lives and struggles and, you know, what we all go through as individuals. And, you know, back a few years ago I feel like I would’ve judged somebody for the same issue, so I feel like if someone like me could completely change their beliefs and, you know, I feel like anybody could do that, like, just once they open their heart and they really see, like, how hard life is anyway, like that we definitely should not judge others for decisions they make, and I just hope that somebody gets something out of this and, you know, maybe it will help just one person, ‘cause it was very hard at the time, but I’m happy. Like I said, like my mom, she passed away in 2008, but I feel like she would be proud of me for, you know, growing up into the person I am today. And, you know, I feel like that’s– a lot of times in the hard days that’s kinda what gets me through so. [Pause] I think I went over about everything, probably [laughs].

[40:56]

Thank you. [Redacted], do you mind sharing, what– what– historically, what contraception you’ve used?

Oh yes, I’m so sorry I was trying to get everything. Um, yeah, so when I was like 16, when I first got on birth control, I was on just a pill. I don’t know, like, the actual name, I guess it was just some basic pill. Because at that time, before I had turned 18, or actually I started going to the [Redacted] when I was 17. For a brief time I was going to, um, it was almost like Planned Parenthood, it was called Open Door, but they had closed down not that long after I had started going there, um. It was basically like a Planned Parenthood-type organization, where like if you had insurance they would accept it but if you didn’t they would still treat you the same and give you, like, the medication for free. I did have insurance, thankfully. So they had put me on the pill for a short time, and then I was on that for a while. And then, when I was 17, I started going to the [Redacted] once that place had closed, that was the first time I had went– I believe it was when I just had turned 17, so probably right around like 2005 I believe. Um, and they had put me on the birth control shot, and I was on that all the way up until, um, I had missed it two months because honestly I had forgot about it. I was, like, busy with school and stuff and didn’t get my shot, and then right at the time I was supposed to get my second shot that I had missed, that’s when I had found out I was pregnant. So it definitely worked up until, you know, I wasn’t doing what I needed to do, and then after I had my son I had got the Implanon, it's like the little rod they put in the inside of your upper arm, and that worked great for me. I had actually had the implant on three times, because it lasts for three years, and then when they had took the last Implanon out in, I wanna say, like, 20– yeah, early 2019, that’s when I had switched to the, um, [pause] patch. They had said that it was the exact same medicine, it was just in a patch form because, by that time, I had had the Nexplanon in my arm, in my left arm twice and then in my right once. So they didn’t wanna keep, like, scarring the inside of my arm, ‘cause they said it was the exact same medication. And I had used that for eight weeks, and then I had got I believe it was strep throat, where they had to put me on antibiotics. And I had used that up until I had got pregnant with my daughter, so I actually had the patch on when I had found out I was pregnant, that’s why I was so shocked when, you know, I was pregnant with my daughter. But then after I had my daughter, I went to the NuvaRing and I was on that, like, religiously until two months ago, when I– when I had, um, [pause], gotten pregnant, so I definitely don’t think it worked very well. But my fiancé, he had actually just got a vasectomy, like, maybe like sixty days ago, and then now I’m not on birth control. Although I’m thinking about getting back on it ‘cause I think where I had been on it pretty much my whole life, I feel like I’m, like, almost experiencing weird side effects because I’m not on anything right now. Um, so yeah, those are– those are mainly what I have been on with, like, the Implanon being, you know, like the one I think was definitely the best.

[45:15]

Thank you [Redacted]. Can you share what, like, clinically what the experience was like taking the pills you received from Aid Access?

Um, well, I had got them, like I said, I did the whole process within three weeks. To me, I mean, although I had never been through anything like that before, um, it, uh, was very, like, informative. They send you a lot of stuff. Basically you just do, like, a questionnaire and then you do like an over-the-phone consultation, and they pretty might, you know, like determine if you’re healthy enough for, like, a medical abortion. And then if they think that you are, then they will go ahead with the process. I know the doctor that I had saw was in Europe, and I basically kind of just did a consultation through email, on the phone, but I didn’t have to, I didn’t actually have to do like a Zoom call with him or anything like that, it was just basically everything over email, kind of like, through a third party. And then they had gotten a hold of me, I believe that was on a Friday, and they had gotten a hold of me on a Monday and told me that everything had went through that they had, like, sent the script over. They basically send it from Europe to India and then to, like, an Indian pharmacy, and then they are the ones who handle it from there. It– it took about five or six days, and I had gotten– I had gotten a confirmation with, like, the tracking number and everything like that, and then from there it took me right at like two weeks for it to come in the mail. And then once you get it, they– a few days before they send you, like, I mean its a super long email with, like, exact instructions, it has a link to it and, um, depending on what state you’re in, it’s, um, between $105, is either $105, which my state was $105, or it was, um, right at $150 for a handful of other states. Most of the states here in the United States were $105. Um, but basically you pay that after your consultation and then, like I had said earlier, if you don’t have the funds, you just have to do a little more like questionnaire information and then they will, I know, give you the medication for free. But you usually deal with one person, I had dealt with a really nice women named Domolia who, I mean, I had had tons of questions and she, I mean, within ten or twenty minutes every time I had emailed her she had emailed me back with, you know, like, every answer, I’m mean you could imagine. But yeah basically once you get the medication you just kind of open that email and then they’ll give you, like, explicit– explicit instructions on what to do. They basically just send you like two rounds of medication, I think I got eight pills of the first round, and then the second pills you’re supposed to take, um, I think I got four or six of those, um, they definitely like to send you more than you need, which I thought was good, um, a friend of my had had an abortion at the clinic, like I told you about before, and in Illinois that was way cheaper. They had only given her like two pills of each, so that was like really difficult for her, like, and I feel like she said that it barely worked, so I definitely feel like they are really thorough, just because they know you can’t just go and get, you know, a big, you know, it will turn into a big thing, especially if you don’t have it available in your state, where you can just go and get, like, a medical abortion, or I’m sorry, an actual surgical abortion if the medical one fails.

[49:39]

Um, so I had ended up taking four of, um, the first round of pills, and they say, like, in the instructions that you can clearly tell because you’ll start cramping pretty badly, and once you’re like consistently cramping for like twelve hours, right at that twenty-fourth hour mark, from when you had started the original pills, that’s when you take your second round, which I had taken two. They say if you haven’t started a decent amount of bleeding to take two more, so I had ended up taking four of those as well. So I did have some left over, which, you know, I didn’t keep those, ‘cause obviously I’m not going to use those again, but you really know, like it says in there that, you know, kind of when your body is, you know, going through that process, and I was really scared about like over-bleeding or something. Like that happening, but I mean it's really not as bad as I thought it was, like the cramping was definitely the worse but it wasn’t, it wasn’t unbearable. I mean it was maybe like a really bad period. It definitely– I mean it was worse than a period but it was less than, you know, like the cramping you would have from, like, you know, going into labor, so it's kind of a mix between the two. I feel like you’re emotions are more kind of hurting then your actual body, you know, the kind of– it took me, I think I had sat with that first round of pills for probably thirty minutes before I was actually able to take them because I was really having to psych myself out, like is this what you wanna do? Like, ‘cause I feel like in situations like that you really have to be 100%. So really it wasn’t too bad, once I kind of got through with that and knowing, like, okay, like this is what’s best for me, this is what’s best for our family and our kids that we already have, then it was easier. But the whole process took maybe two days total, from start to, like, absolute finish. Um, and then they, you know, um, just tell you basically to get like some of the Dollar Tree tests, so you’re not, like, spending a crazy amount, and test after a week, and then it will probably still show positive but it will slowly fade. So at like that third week mark, I– it was completely negative, so I guess that’s when you fully know that it worked. They tell you in the instructions, ‘cause you can either take the pills vaginally or orally, but I took mine vaginally just because I had read, like I didn’t want anything to happen to where, like, it didn’t work and, you know, you have, like, I’ve read like some horror stories on there where you can still be pregnant but, you know, like you’re not pregnant but you are. So I didn’t want something like that to happen. Um, so I took them that way, I just heard that it's a better option from the research I had done. So they just basically tell you on there like, you know, the warning signs, not to be afraid, you know, and they tell you how much, you know, blood is like too much, and even if you do them vaginally, like, they won’t know, there won’t be like traces of the pills left or anything like that, so like I think that’s the worst of it is that they know if something happens you have to go to the hospital, like they know that you’re gonna have to lie, and they tell you, like, don’t feel bad for lying, you know, because you don’t want to get in trouble for, like I said earlier, basic healthcare. So they just say there’s no difference they can tell between, like, an actual miscarriage and doing that, so it did state that quite a few times just for your safety to not disclose that you’re doing that to everybody, you know, just to kinda keep it in a small group of people who are going to be supporting you during that time and that you really do need to have somebody with you if at all possible. So I mean, I think that all the instructions were great. I feel like it was an emotional experience, but if you have some sort of support, or even if you’re alone and, you know, like this is the right choice for me, like I feel like anyone can do it that, you know, wanted to do it, so it was definitely, I feel like, the easiest process that they could’ve made it like, you know, during that hard time in your life, they definitely were awesome.

[Annotation 6]

[Annotation 7]

[55:00]

[Redacted], do you mind saying a little bit more about what it means to be not just a mother but a mother-caregiver for your children? With the needs that your children actually have, what is, like, a day or a week look like on an ongoing basis?

Well basically I just– I do a lot of meds through the day, my son takes meds three times a day. I mean it is hard, but having my first child have those issues from the beginning, that’s really how all I knew as like “normal” parenthood. I feel like my version of normal caregiving and, you know, child rearing is probably different than the typical one, just because I had kind of grown up with my child as far as learning everything and kinda figuring everything out so young. When my son was 3 months, my mom– that’s when my mom had passed away, um, he was a week from being 3 months old, so she helped me with a lot so, you know, I kind of just had to do a lot of learning and even growing up once she had passed away. So I kind of felt like we were kind of in it together, you know, like we did a lot of process of eliminating, you know, like what his diagnosis could be, but I definitely feel like we're in a pretty good swing of things now. Having my daughter was definitely a breeze compared to my son, just because she’s so easy, she was walking at nine months, my son, he’ll be 15 in July, and he still doesn’t walk, you know, he’s still in diapers and, you know, my daughter was– started potty training right after she turned 2. So it was a big adjustment. I was very thankful that– I feel like I have a lot more of a medical experience now than I had had before. Um, so I mean I definitely, like, he had a G-tube and I know all about G-tubes and have taken classes and stuff on, you know, doing like G-tubes and JG-tubes and things like that, and I think, just, you really learn how to advocate for your child when they do have a lot of medical issues. But I’m just glad I guess that as much as I would love to take that away from him, I feel like we do pretty good for, you know, everything that has been thrown at us. I feel like we kind of have a good, you know, like I guess for lack of a better word, like a good situation for– for our circumstances. And my daughter, she’s grown up knowing that [Redacted] is different, even though she’s only 3, she knows, like, you know, that he sometimes needs some extra care and extra attention, and she’s very, you know, she’s good with that, like, she’s very understanding and, you know, she knows when [Redacted] doesn’t feel good, she loves on him and she doesn’t try to be in his face, and she, like, understands, hey we need to call an ambulance. It's just, I don’t know, I’m thankful that since we don’t have a lot of family, like I’m confident that I know one day when, you know, I’m no longer able to take care, and even though that’s very hard for me to fathom, you know, when I’m 80 and I can no longer do these things, like I have no doubt that no matter where she’s at in life, that she would take on that role, even though she’s only 3 now, and some people might think that’s crazy, like I feel like its almost a relief knowing that, you know. My son will never had to be, like, in a home or, you know, somewhere like that because [choked up] that was always my, like, scariest fear of having him, was if something ever happened to me that, you know, where would he go, you know, like because he’s always just had us, and so I’m thankful I don’t really think it would be like a burden on her or anything just because, even though she’s so young now, she’s just– she loves her brother and she knows he’s different. She knows what a seizure is and so, you know, I definitely think for everything we’ve had to go through, like I feel like that’s kind of a light, is that, you know, we’re teaching her young, like, to always be there for him and it's almost a big relief, you know.

[Annotation 2]

[59:59]

So I’m super thankful for that, um, but it is hard but, like I said, it's just all I really ever known just because we kind of where thrown into that world, you know, immediately, because I didn’t have the same testing done I had with him that I had with my daughter. Like, we had no idea when he was born that anything was wrong so, I think it takes a long time, but, and there’s a lot more– more stuff you have to, you know, worry about. You know, we can’t just always take trips, like, with him, everything has to be planned, like, we go to the zoo a lot, we have to plan that. Even though it's only, you know, [a distance] away, we have to plan that two or three weeks in advance, you know. It’s– it's a lot. And what I think like the “normal”, you know, quote parents deal with, you know, with their kids, they can just get up and go and, you know, with my son, it's like, you know, even just bath time is like a big thing because water changes is one of the things that can trigger him to have a seizure, like extreme cold or extreme heat can make him, you know, have an episode, where he could possible have a seizure and P-Stat.

So everything is just, it has to be planned out to, you know, specifically where, you know, have– have his meds ready, have this, like, you always have to be at home at, you know, 8:00 am and 2:00 pm and then, you know, 8:00 pm just so, you know, you have to give meds and things like that. But, like I said, I feel like we– we definitely have a really good routine going on, and I’m glad that I’m at a spot where I can work, like, while my son’s at school, and I’m able to, you know, kind of do things like that– that I still need for me on my time, when I have it. And then, you know, I’m still able to be 100% present during those after hours where he gets home, and then I have my daughter and my son both, and my daughter helps me a lot with my son, even though, like I said, she’s really young, like, she’ll help me get milk for him, like, or she’ll like do a lot of things so I’m just, I feel thankful for that and lucky for that and, you know, I just am lucky for every– night that he has a good night, like I– it really make you treasure, like, the good days. You know, so it's definitely the good days, so much more like that way than the few bad days we have, so it's definitely made me be more appreciative of life and just, you know, just every good thing we have. But I wouldn’t, even though I’d love to take that away from him, you know, realistically I know that’s not possible, so we just try to make the best out of everything. We try to, you know, always take him to therapy and, you know, so being a mom is all I know, like the working and all that stuff it comes after. Like, their dad works a lot, he goes to work at 4:00 in the morning and doesn’t get off sometimes until 6:00 at night, sometimes even later than that, so I’m the– the sole parent, you know, I feel like as far as the caregiving and, you know, I’m fine with– even though its hard. Like people tell me all the time that, “I don’t know how you do it, I don’t know,” and I’m just like I don’t know how you wouldn’t do it! Like, you’re just– you’re not given a choice, and to me it's just second nature now, like, I feel like he’s definitely– both of my kids have made me strong and grow up and, you know, do the right things and, you know, like, kept me– I feel like on a really good path, so matter like any obstacles we face I definitely feel like we, you know, I’m so thankful for my kids and, you know, that’s all I strive to be everyday is like a little bit better of a mother than I was yesterday.

[Redacted] is there a positive or joyful anecdote or memory you might want to share?

Do you mean with my kids or just life in general?

With your kids.

I mean, I definitely think when both of my kids were born, it's an indescribable feeling. When we had my daughter, my son was at school, and even though it sounds like a bad memory, like, my daughter was just maybe hours old and my son– we brought my son to– well I guess my fiancé had brought my son to the hospital after he had gotten out of school so he could see his sister for the first time. And he tried to hit her, he tried to swipe her across the head because, you know, he doesn’t understand, and to me, even though that was so bad and thankfully we caught him so he didn’t, you know, hurt her or anything, ‘cause she was just maybe four hours old. To me that was just, kind of like, okay this is how life is girl, like, get ready, you know, so. I don’t know, to me like that was a scary moment for a second, like, we were kind of like, okay, like get ready. So I think that was kind of one of the funnier moments kind of preparing us for what was to come. Because even though they love each other, they fight like crazy, and even though my son’s disabled, like, you can look at him and just tell exactly what he is thinking, and he cannot say it, he gives you that look, and I just think he was kind of telling us like, “What is– what are you doing?” Like, “That thing is not coming home with us.” And it's just, I don’t know, it was kind of a funny moment, you know, for like, oh gosh, it's real, you know. So, stuff like that I guess, I mean, the good definitely outweighs the bad. And I’m just, you know, I’m thankful for, for everything that we have.

[Redacted], thank you. Is there anything else you might want to share before we finish our time?

Um, I don’t think so, I think we went through everything. I’m glad we can kinda go through and talk about it. I’m just really happy I got to have this experience and I really thank you for like being patient and kind of understanding of like the hectic schedule we have here and there, and, like I said, I just I hope that this can help someone, somewhere, and, you know, maybe make their life a little bit better, and know that there’s, you know, like there’s a rainbow at the end of the storm for, you know, everybody in their own way. So I just hope that people know, no matter what they do, not even in this kind of situation, just in life, like, the good I feel like always is gonna outweigh the bad. And I think just growing and living in everybody’s own way, it's just, life is great, even if you don’t think so, like, it really is a gift, and these experiences make you really see that, so I’m just really thankful.

Thank you [Redacted],  I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Take care and we’ll be in touch soon

Alright, thank you so much.

Bye.

Alright bye bye.