Teacher in South Carolina

This teacher in South Carolina recently moved to the US for a fresh start for her family. She discusses her experiences with Aid Access, and how they provided her a support system during her abortion process.

“Of course I want my story to be out there– so I think that it is important that my story gets out.”
— Teacher in South Carolina

ANNOTATIONS

1. Single-Parent Households - According to Gallup, almost 1 in 10 households worldwide are single-adult households, with 84% of those single adults being mothers. In Jamaica, single parent households are particularly common, with an estimated 45% of families being single-mother led. According to the global median, almost a third of these single-mother households are considered low-income and almost a quarter are food-insecure. In developed countries, the rate of single-mother households considered to be low-income often more than doubles. While our narrator benefited from a comparatively longer fatherhood presence and access to economic resources, they certainly shared in the sociological consequences, which include teen and young adult pregnancies.
2. Barriers for Immigrants - Being a Black Jamaican immigrant in the United States, the narrator is one of many who are facing financial and medical barriers compared to native citizens. The median household income of Caribbean immigrant families is $52,000, which is less than the median average of $64,000 for all immigrant households combined, with 15% living in poverty (earning less than $25,750). In terms of healthcare, 54% of Caribbean immigrants are privately insured, compared to 69% of native born Americans, 38% are publicly insured, and 15% are completely uninsured, compared to 8% of native born Americans. An estimated population of 4,618,555 Black immigrants live in the United States, with 17% coming from Jamaica.
3. Reasons for Abortion - Both in America and in Jamaica, abortion is a common solution to treat unintended pregnancies. In 2020, data reported voluntarily to the CDC indicated 620,327 abortions across 47 states and Washington D.C. In 2021, it was estimated that 6,000 - 22,000 abortions took place in Jamaica. Figures on abortion in Jamaica are more difficult to report with precision because of legal restrictions on the practice. Abortions are sought out for a diversity of reasons, and more often than not the reasons are multipartite. A 2004 study by the Guttmacher Institute found that abortions were sought most commonly for these reasons in descending order: life-altering nature of the situation, inability to financially support a baby, unstable relationships, fear of single parenthood, and already having children and not desiring more.

Transcript: “I was with child again and I didn’t want it 'cause I just did not see myself with a third child, loving a third child with two girls already so, I didn’t think I could have created the stability that it needed, emotionally created an environment for it to be emotionally okay, physically okay. Physically okay I would provide, but providing that emotional and, um, attachment was not there 'cause at the getgo I did not develop any attachments at all, 'cause I knew that this is something that I did not want. I did not. Um, so, I didn’t want to take another child into this world not being able to support it emotionally and psychologically, mentally I couldn’t do that.”

Transcript [2]: “Um, I was not financially stable at all. I was the only one working, providing for my daughter who was in private school, and it was very– very stressful. I was– I wasn’t being paid enough in Jamaica where I could welcome a second child. So though I wanted a second child at that time, I wasn’t financially stable.”

Learn More: Diana Thorburn, “Pro-Legalization of Abortion Is Not the Same as Pro-Abortion,” Caribbean Policy Research Institute (CAPRI), June 23, 2023.

Learn More [2]: Lawrence B. Finer et al., “Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives,” Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health 37 (September 1, 2005): 110–18.

Learn More [3]: Jeff Diamant and Besheer Mohamed, “What the Data Says about Abortion in the U.S.,” Pew Research Center (blog), January 11, 2023.

4. Religion and Abortion - The narrator comes from a Pentecostal background and converted to Catholicism. According to a 2014 study, almost seventy percent of Pentecostal Christians are generally against abortion in most or all cases. A 2020 study showed Catholic Christians are more liberal towards abortion with 56% believing the procedure should be legal in most or all cases. That being said, an almost identical number of Catholic Christians (57%) believe that abortion is also immoral, even if it should be legal. Regardless of political views on abortion, evidence from a Pew research study shows that almost every woman belonging to both Evangelical Protestant sects and Catholicism have used contraception before (99.3% and 99.0% respectively).
5. Abortion Access - The narrator is one among many people in Jamaica to have received an abortion illegally. Because the state heavily restricts abortion, many physicians hesitate to provide them because they are subject to prosecution. This leads to some people receiving substandard care, and thus taxpayers in Jamaica spend extra money (an estimated annual $1.4 million USD) on treating complications from unsafe abortions. Unsafe abortions can be fatal, with 8-11% mortality rate caused abortion complications. Despite the restriction on abortion, abortions continue to take place throughout the country at high frequency. The impact of restriction has disproportionately affected poor Jamaicans, leading them to seek out unsafe abortion alternatives and providers. As a consequence, poor Jamaicans report to hospitals at higher frequencies for abortion-related complications. In total, the third leading cause of maternal deaths and second leading cause of adolescent maternal deaths in Jamaica is abortion-related complications.
6. Medical Abortion - A medical abortion is an abortion conducted via prescription drugs, like mifepristone and misoprostol. Side effects can include bleeding, cramping, blood clots, a low fever, chills, and nausea. The overall experience is considered comparable to strong period cramps. Most over the counter pain relieving medications can be taken to relieve symptoms. While symptoms may be intimidating, medical abortions are widely considered to be a safe procedure and side effects are temporary. According to a study published by Social Science & Medicine, most people were overwhelmingly satisfied five years after their abortions, and cited that the procedure provided them relief.
7. Abortion Support - Partners play an important role in the abortion process. According to the Bixby Research Center for Global Reproductive Health, in heterosexual relationships most women have consulted their male partners about their abortion and are also more likely to consult them than any other family member. According to this study, most women report that their male partners were supportive surrounding the decision. Support from partners in general is understood to positively influence the post-abortion recovery process. Not all women can depend on the support of male partners, and women who suffer from intimate partner violence reported a drastically lower level of supportiveness from their partners and were less likely to confer about the abortion process altogether. An example of an unsupportive partner is found in the transcript itself; our narrator initially enjoyed the support and direct involvement of their partner, but he afterwards withdrew his support and shamed her about the decision, inflicting emotional stress.

Transcript: “Okay, so after the process my husband– it’s like he changed. When I– when I– when I had actually passed it out, it was just me alone after that. He was there comforting me with the pain, but after it was just me alone. I had to wash myself up, I was still feeling pain 'cause I, um, I did push the afterbirth out 'cause I had to pump my stomach, and I had to take another pill 'cause the pill wasn’t finished orally, so I had to take another pill to get the excess out. But I knew that I had to pump my stomach to get the excess afterbirth out. Um, he wasn’t there, he– it’s like there was a change, um, I was alone doing this after. Um, we have arguments, whenever we have arguments he’ll tell me that he didn’t want it and I’m a murderer and all these things, so, um, it’s been myself alone struggling with the emotions around it. I– I just deal with it myself.”

Learn More: Rachel Jones, Ann Moore, and Lori F. Frohwirth, “Perceptions of Male Knowledge and Support Among U.S. Women Obtaining Abortions” (Women’s Health Issues, October 28, 2010).

Learn More [2]: Karuna S. Chibber et al., “The Role of Intimate Partners in Women’s Reasons for Seeking Abortion,” Women’s Health Issues: Official Publication of the Jacobs Institute of Women’s Health 24, no. 1 (2014).

Learn More [3]: Learn More [2]: Lawrence B. Finer et al., “Reasons U.S. Women Have Abortions: Quantitative and Qualitative Perspectives,” Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health 37 (September 1, 2005): 110–18.

8. Post-Abortion Emotions - According to the American Psychological Association, “It’s important for folks to know that abortion does not cause mental health problems. […] What’s harmful are the stigma surrounding abortion, the lack of knowledge about it, and the lack of access.” A 2014 study surrounding mental health and abortion reported that, while individuals suffering mental health disorders were more likely to seek abortion, abortion itself was not considered a predictor factor in future mental health disorders. In fact, a 2015 study assessing depression in individuals post-abortion and individuals denied abortion showed that women who received abortions had similar or lower levels of depression and anxiety than those women denied one. According to the study, depressive and anxious symptoms decline after time for both groups. Even so, it is common and normal for people to struggle with complex feelings after their abortions, including post-abortion grief. There are many accessible resources available for people who may need it, such as exhaleprovoice.
9. Access to Healthcare - Jamaica has an expansive infrastructure of public healthcare available to its citizens, and its health sector is considered by the World Bank organization to be generally better than others in Latin America. The US healthcare system is partially public and partially private, with about half of Americans on private, employer-provided and individual insurance, half receiving Medicare and Medicaid, and about nine percent uninsured. While Jamaica's universal access spreads their resources thin, Americans struggle with the complexities of the intersection of private and public healthcare, as well as asymmetrical access overall.

Transcript: “Your doctor writes your prescription, it isn’t sent to the pharmacy like it is done here, your doctor writes a prescription, you take it to the pharmacy and you fill your prescription, and it’s very easy back home. Health care is very, very easy. Um, what I will say, though, here, the health care here is better. The health care, taking care of you being sick, it’s better, surgery’s better, they have some of the best doctors here. Um, compared to Jamaica. In Jamaica you’ll be at the hospital all day waiting for a doctor to see you or a nurse to see you, but at the end of the day, it’s free, so we will prefer to be there all day, all night, to see a doctor than to pay this expensive fee at a private doc– a private hospital. Especially when you need asthma medications, you get those free, you get contraceptives free, everything that you can think of, you just go to the free healthcare clinic in Jamaica and you tell them what you want, and if they have it, they’ll provide it to you.”

Transcript [2]: “My healthcare, I got it through my– my program. Um, but it’s not good. It’s not good at all, so I’m now– I have a secondary healthcare insurance through my husband’s job, so he placed us on his insurance. So it should be getting– right now I’m in $6,000 worth of debt in medical bills, $6,000 going on $7,000, 'cause I was admitted in the hospital here October 12, I was at work one day and I started feeling my chest, it’s like it was heavy. The ambulance came, I was– my oxygen– my blood pressure was high, my oxygen level was decreasing rapidly, so they had to put me on oxygen and transport me to the hospital to run a lot of tests. I did an EKG, a CT, I did X-RAY, and I got two medications and it’s about six thous– it came to $15,000 and my medical insurance paid $9,00-something, so I’m down to $6,000 and some change in medical bills. And I’m on a payment plan. I’m not in a rush to pay everything off, 'cause I’m trying to save some money here too so I’m on a plan where I pay a $172 monthly and that is good enough for me.”

Learn More: “Jamaica - Health Sector Review : Present Status and Future Options,” World Bank, accessed March 21, 2024.

Learn More [2]: “US Healthcare System Overview-Background,” Ispor.org, accessed March 21, 2024.

Learn More [3]: “U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes,” The Commonwealth Fund, January 31, 2023.

Learn More [4]: Alex Montero et al., “Americans’ Challenges with Health Care Costs,” Kaiser Family Foundation (blog), July 14, 2022.

10. Gun Violence - Around the world, over 500 people die from gun violence everyday. Gun violence in the US and Jamaica is an important issue, and statistics demonstrate that access to guns facilitate the execution of violent crime in both nations. Between 2010 and 2022, 80% of violent crimes committed in Jamaica involved guns. A comparative, though not identical, 2021 study from the US shows that 81% of murders involve guns. As the narrator feared, the United States deals with a uniquely high rate of mass shootings compared to Jamaica and the rest of the world. The median annual deaths per million put the US at 0.05, with no other included nation reporting anything higher than 0. Interpretation of this data suggests that while most countries in the world will experience no mass shootings throughout the year, it is likely that the US will at least experience a few. Beyond the factor of mass-shootings, the US suffers a high mortality toll from shootings in general, with firearms causing over 39,000 annual deaths and 360 woundings a day in the country.

TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

Conducted Remotely

May 25, 2023

Transcription by Chrissy Briskin

Annotations by Patrick McPolin

00:00

Alright, today is Thursday, May 25. It’s 1:03pm. My name is Dan Swern and, uh, we are conducting this oral history virtually. I’m here interviewing–

[Redacted].

[Redacted], thank you so much for making the time to share your story and for speaking with me the other week. Whenever you’re ready, please feel free to start from the beginning.

Um, so what exactly would you– should I talk on, 'cause I think we covered a lot the last time. Um, is it an update, would you like to hear an update?

An update would be great, but also everything that we talked about the other day you can, uh, go back to and share again here, that was our pre-interview where we sort of approve the notes–

Oh, okay

We can restate those and elaborate, articulate more detail about those events today.

Okay, okay, got it. Um, well when I first got introduced– when I first found out about Aid Access, it’s because I needed the access of an abortion. And, um, I wanted something that was private, so I went ahead and I did some research, I didn’t really have the money I needed so I had to do some research and I stumbled upon Aid Access. Um, growing up, I’m from [Redacted], Jamaica, growing up I had a mom and a dad, they played a very important role, but after they split, it kind of tore me apart. It really– it messed with me emotionally and mentally and everything that I could think of except financially because my parents were still able to provide for me financially, but my dad wasn’t present at 17, he was present from baby to 17 years old, but after 17 years old, to me being 28, my dad still is not present today. I did have good, um, supportive family members, um, aunts, uncles, grandparents, they all have supported me one way or another. I do have one sister, um, we share both parents, and, um, we’re very close even today. Growing up we weren’t as close as all siblings would be, but we still had love. Our way of loving each other was like tough love, so, um, we’re still close today. Um, we speak every single day since my, my, um, me leaving Jamaica. We speak every single day along with my mom as well. Um, when my– backtrack to when my parents split, they split when it was my first year in college, I was about 16 years old, going on 17. Um, usually in high school in Jamaica you leave high school at 16 back then, however, the rules have changed and now that you have to spend an additional of two years in high school after eleventh grade, so you go up to thirteenth grade and then you graduate at 18. Um, depending on what course of study you want to take, you have the opportunity of using that two years and enrolling in an undergraduate program at a college. Um, my parents were together twenty-three years, and, um, they split because my dad was promiscuous, he wasn’t providing my mom with things that she needed, she wanted stability and he was not providing that. And I guess she just got tired of it and they actually grew out of love I should say. Um, it’s been eight months since I’ve been in the US. I first landed here, um, uh, [in July]. Landed here [in July] and I came on a teaching program, um, actually did the teaching program as I wanted something fresh, something new with my family. Um, 'cause I– we– we were having a little bit of problems back home, my husband and I, and we decided that, hey, we needed a fresh start, and we did counseling and we realized that we needed to just start over from scratch, we just– the two of us and our kids, no families interrupting or anything.

[Annotation 1]

04:56

Um, so that’s what– one of the reasons why I came here. Another reason is that I think that I have, um, exhausted my options in Jamaica, I’ve taught at the best schools, I’ve taught at the worst schools, I’ve taught at the in-between schools, so I wanted to broaden my horizons, I also want to pursue my Master’s degree as well. So I think that pursuing– I did my Bachelor’s degree in Jamaica, I think that pursuing my Master’s degree in America would be even better for me where it comes on to the tuition, it’s not as expensive as it is back home, um, so, we came here in– in July, we left Jamaica [in July] and landed in Florida at 4:00 pm that same day, and it’s been, uh, it’s been rough. I can tell you taking your entire family, um, moving to a new country, it has been extremely tough, it has been extremely tough. Um, but we are hanging there. We are hanging in there, um, hoping that things will get better.

[Annotation 2]

My husband started working, we have started counseling, because the last time we spoke, we were– well I filed for divorce, um, I have put a pause on that divorce, I spoke with the attorneys, I’ve put a pause on that divorce and we are okay, they encouraged the counseling before we actually signed those papers, so we are doing counseling, we do separate counseling, then we do couples counseling, and counseling since the last time we spoke, and I think– it is getting a little bit better than how it was before. I think one of the biggest, um, uh, problems we faced is, I’m sorry, is it was all new to us. New environment, it was all new, um, even though some things did not change from back home, the insecurities, the accusing, accusations, it has not happened in a while, so I guess the counseling is working. We’re internalizing some stuff, we are actually looking into ourselves. So it, um, it is getting better. My daughters, my older daughter, she is moving on to her middle school grade here. She was awarded five awards yesterday, two medals, so I’m very, very proud of her. So I have two daughters, 10 and 3. Um, I’ve been with my husband thirteen years, mmm hmm, thirteen years. Um, tomorrow is our– actually our one year anniversary that we’ve been married. So we were together thirteen years but we’ve only been married for one year, and, um, that is it. So we came here for a fresh start, um, most of what created our problems back home, we left it, and we’re hoping that it will ease some of the tension here, trying to understand each other, trying to see where, how best the trust can be regained where it was lost or whatever. Um, but, it’s getting there. My childhood was good, my childhood was good. Growing up as a child, I may have gotten involved in dating lifestyle too early, 'cause here you can start dating as early as eighth grade as I’ve seen here, but, um, back home, dating doesn’t really take place until you’re 18 or 21 when you live in a household with strict parents. When I got here I had enough supplies of contraception and it finished and as soon as it was finished mmmm, I was with child again and I didn’t want it 'cause I just did not see myself with a third child, loving a third child with two girls already so, I didn’t think I could have created the stability that it needed, emotionally created an environment for it to be emotionally okay, physically okay. Physically okay I would provide, but providing that emotional and, um, attachment was not there 'cause at the getgo I did not develop any attachments at all, 'cause I knew that this is something that I did not want. I did not. Um, so, I didn’t want to take another child into this world not being able to support it emotionally and psychologically, mentally I couldn’t do that. I wouldn’t want that to happen to me, so I decided that I would get an abortion and I reached out to Aid Access and they’ve been very good to me. They helped me through the whole process because before, in 2018, I had done one, but it wasn’t as emotional as this one, though I didn’t want to have any emotional attachments, this one was emotional because I actually saw something this time around, but Aid Access provided me with– with that, um, what am I looking for that word? They were supportive, they were very, very supportive. They stood behind me, they– wherever I didn’t– whatever I didn’t understand in doing the procedure, they walked me through, and it was very good and I was very relieved.

[Annotation 3]

11:02

I was very, very relieved when I knew that I no longer had it with me. So, um, that is basically it. I guess that was, uh, a run-through of what we spoke about. We also spoke about, um, how I grew up, we– we– we did, um, I did grow up in a house that took religion very seriously, um, I grew up in a Pentecostal because it was my grandma, and when she passed, I converted to– to, um, a Catholic. Um, before– I tried other churches before but I didn’t really– wasn’t really feeling that acceptance there. I felt drawn to the Catholic faith even more, and though a part of the Catholic faith says that we should not do abortions or anything, I have confessed my sins and hopefully, um, the Lord has forgiven me, 'cause I knew what I was doing and it wasn’t a selfish act. I knew it wasn’t a selfish act 'cause I was acting on the interest of myself and the best interest for my kids. Having another child would have prevented a lot of hiccups and setback for them. So I guess that is it. I’ve been working in education since 2016. I left in– I left college in 2015, but I actually started getting paid as a degree teacher in 2018, so my back monies were a lot back home. I was able to open a business and everything. Um, I opened my own skin care line. I do have a good amount of money back home, so whenever I’m ready to go back, my savings here combined with my savings at home should be good for me where I can probably do free retirement.  Uh, I know that for a fact when I get home it will be very good. Um, um, on the seeking medical abortions in Jamaica, it’s very easy. Though it’s illegal, it’s very easy 'cause all you gotta do is some of those pharmacies, they will give it to you on a lower cost, or you’ll go to the doctor, let your doctor know how far along you are, and then he’ll prescribe those pills. They do not prescribe the pills, though, if you are past twelve weeks. That I know, you can’t get an abortion if you are past twelve weeks. Some, um, doctors do provide the surgical ones below twelve weeks as well. But I’ve made sure that I am all covered when it comes on to contraception or contraceptives right now 'cause I use two methods. I am not planning on having any more kids right now. I’m not planning on that anytime soon, um, but it– I guess that is it. Um, I did this because I knew that a lot of females out there maybe have been through the same issue as what I’m going through. Maybe it’s not the exact same, but they are in a position where they are– they don’t feel that they are emotionally ready, physically ready, mentally ready, financially ready, and this is the only option for them. I know they may be wondering if they are doing the right thing. I can just say to them stick with your gut feeling. Stick with your gut feeling, whatever your gut tells you, do that. If it tells you that, hey, it’s not the right time, I can’t do it, I need to do this medical abortion, go ahead. And if your gut tells you that, hey, maybe this is a blessing, maybe this is a sign, maybe it will work out, work out itself, go ahead, but stick to your gut. Stick to your intuition 'cause that never fails you. So, yeah. I guess that is it.

[Annotation 4]

[Annotation 5]

Um [Redacted] what contraception are you using now?

I’m on my pills. It’s called um, [unclear] from home. It’s not available here 'cause I’ve searched all over and I haven’t seen [unclear] or anything here but I get them from home, so my mom sends enough. I have enough to last me for seven months, so before that seven months I’m gonna try in this summer, to get at least another year supply.

15:50

And you had mentioned there is a second form of contraception you’re using as well.

Yes, I use my pills and I use a condom.

Okay, thank you. Um, can you speak to how, uh, why you ran out of your contraception this year when you came to the United States?

Yeah, I didn’t have enough. When I left Jamaica, I left with about five months' supply, so it lasted me from August, September, October, November, December, and then I found out on, um, New Year’s Day. 'Cause I knew the moment that I have not seen my cycle, I knew that something is wrong. I knew that was with my first, my second child, so I knew once that I– the day that I should expect my cycle and it’s not there, then I knew that something is wrong.

Um, do you mind describing the process you went through with the medical abortion that you received from Aid Access, how you took the medication and then, sort of, describing what the experience was like?

Okay, um, I received my package, I think, on February 22. And I started, you were supposed to take it, um, you take the pills orally before you insert. So you gotta wait twelve hours, I think a day before, so I took the pills on the 23rd and I did the insert– the 23rd and I did the insert on the 24th. My husband actually did the insertion for me, because we both decided that this is not what we wanted, and on the 24th at about 2:00 am in the morning, that is when I actually passed everything out. There is a fly in here [laughter], I got him; I got him. And um, after I– when I reached out to them, they sent it to me, 'cause I didn’t have money at the time, and they actually offered the services to me free. So because they offered the services to me free, I felt like this is a good way I could repay them. I could do this for them that they asked that to take a part in, so I’m here now, um, so they sent me those pills, I got them the 22nd, I took them the 23rd by mouth and then insertion was the following night. Yeah.

[Annotation 6]

Um, and what was the– what was the physical experience of taking the pills?

Um, when I did the– the oral one, it gave some cramping, so a few hours after you’ve had some– you start have some cramping, 'cause I remember the morning of the 24th I had some really, really bad cramps, um, it was unbearable and then I had to– when I did the insertion now, it felt as if about four hours after it felt like I was in labor. I can tell you it felt like I was in labor, I could feel the pain in my back, the same pain that I went through with my two daughters, went through labor, it was the same pain, the same pain. Um, I could actually feel when the– the fetus detached. I could feel it 'cause I felt it, I felt when– it sent a shock down my spine, and then when I was about to pass, I could feel it making its way down the canal and I felt that, like, a pulling sensation from my belly to my lower vaginal area. I felt a sensation all the way down and that’s when I knew I was about to pass it out and I just went to the bathroom.Yeah.

 00:20:05

Um, do you mind sharing what the immediate emotional experience was that both you and your husband had after going through the process.

Okay, so after the process my husband– it’s like he changed. When I– when I– when I had actually passed it out, it was just me alone after that. He was there comforting me with the pain, but after it was just me alone. I had to wash myself up, I was still feeling pain 'cause I, um, I did push the afterbirth out 'cause I had to pump my stomach, and I had to take another pill 'cause the pill wasn’t finished orally, so I had to take another pill to get the excess out. But I knew that I had to pump my stomach to get the excess afterbirth out. Um, he wasn’t there, he– it’s like there was a change, um, I was alone doing this after. Um, we have arguments, whenever we have arguments he’ll tell me that he didn’t want it and I’m a murderer and all these things, so, um, it’s been myself alone struggling with the emotions around it. I– I just deal with it myself.

[Annotation 7]

Do you mind sharing what– what some of those emotions– like, what are you feeling, what are you experiencing personally?

Um, emotionally sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing. I’ll get a feeling of sadness, but then again I do remember that I didn’t want any more kids, so there’s times when the negative comes in and then the positive goes out, so whenever the negative comes in, did you do the right thing? The positive sends out, yes I did because I didn’t want any more kids. Not with my husband. Mm– mm. No more kids. I’ve never seen myself as a parent of more than two kids. For more than two kids. Never visioned myself. So I don’t want any more kids. 

[Annotation 8]

Um, what, uh, what led you to your– your first abortion?

Um, I was not financially stable at all. I was the only one working, providing for my daughter who was in private school, and it was very– very stressful. I was– I wasn’t being paid enough in Jamaica where I could welcome a second child. So though I wanted a second child at that time, I wasn’t financially stable. So when my second daughter came along in 2019, as I said before, I did get some back money from the government that I was okay financially. I could provide everything that my second daughter wanted.

[Annotation 3]

Can you explain a little bit further as to what that financial benefit was that you were waiting for?

Yeah, um, usually when you start working as a teacher in Jamaica, you’re pre– you’re paid pre-train until you see that actual, uh, the physical copy of your degree. When I left college in 2016, I had a math course that was not completed, so I had to complete that math course, so my degree was actually given to me in 2018, but I didn’t receive my degree until 2019. So a whole year of, um, degree money was held back for me. So they, after the 20– when I got my degree physically, physical degree, and I turned it in to the Minister of Education, they paid me that whole year's money up, so that was about 593,000 Jamaican dollars, I think it’s about, I can convert that. Ninety three– it’s about 4,000 US dollars. So that’s– I got– I was financially ready and prepared.

24:44

What kind of health care support is available to you in A) Jamaica and B) through the program you’re currently in?

Ok, um, my health care in Jamaica is very, very good. The health insurance there is very good. The health insurance covers eighty percent. Here it’s very different, because I’m still trying to understand what the copay is, the deductible, that is so confusing. But at home, it’s quite straightforward. You take an insurance plan out and you pay probably 3500 dollars out of your pay monthly, and that covers your entire family. And the insurance company covers eighty percent of your total cost and you only cover twenty percent. So I can go to the doctor, a doctor’s visit costs me 3,000 Jamaican dollars, which that is about, in US currency, it is about twenty dollars here. So, if I pay 3,000 Jamaican dollars, you just take away eighty percent of that, so sometimes I only pay a thousand dollars at the doctor, which is about ten dollars here for a doctor’s visit.  Your doctor writes your prescription, it isn’t sent to the pharmacy like it is done here, your doctor writes a prescription, you take it to the pharmacy and you fill your prescription, and it’s very easy back home. Health care is very, very easy. Um, what I will say, though, here, the health care here is better. The health care, taking care of you being sick, it’s better, surgery’s better, they have some of the best doctors here. Um, compared to Jamaica. In Jamaica you’ll be at the hospital all day waiting for a doctor to see you or a nurse to see you, but at the end of the day, it’s free, so we will prefer to be there all day, all night, to see a doctor than to pay this expensive fee at a private doc– a private hospital. Especially when you need asthma medications, you get those free, you get contraceptives free, everything that you can think of, you just go to the free healthcare clinic in Jamaica and you tell them what you want, and if they have it, they’ll provide it to you. Here you have to pay for everything. You have to pay for the air in your tires here. I didn’t know that! 'Cause air, we get air free in Jamaica! So when my tire blew, um, and it needed air, I had to pay two dollars for air, and it’s free back home. So everything you gotta pay here. It’s crazy [laughter].

[Annotation 9]

What is your social network like in the, uh, or the, um, who do you immediately have within your community, uh, in the United States? Do you have friends or neighbors, or church members, anything like that?

Um, I recently start– I attend a church, so I do have church members there. I haven’t been there in a while, 'cause as I stated in our previous interviews, um, I’m a bit hesitant to attend churches here because I know they have mass shootings. Well they do have shootings everywhere, 'cause crime is rampant in Jamaica, but they don’t shoot churches up back home. They don’t shoot schools up back home, so I’m very hesitant in attending churches, but when I did attend my church, I had a good support there. We had good support there. My neighbor at home, he’s, um, a very good support, they’re Mexican, are the Mex– no they’re from Ecuador, so they are very good people. They’ve offered to watch my kids while my husband goes to work, and they’re very good people, so we have that network back home. I do have another Jamaican teacher with me in this program, so we are very tight knit. We understand each other, we know what we’re getting ourselves into, and we just stick to ourself. Um, but otherwise we don’t really have friends here. We don’t have friends [laughter] yeah. I think you asked me about the healthcare that we have here. My healthcare, I got it through my– my program. Um, but it’s not good. It’s not good at all, so I’m now– I have a secondary healthcare insurance through my husband’s job, so he placed us on his insurance. So it should be getting– right now I’m in $6,000 worth of debt in medical bills, $6,000 going on $7,000, 'cause I was admitted in the hospital here October 12, I was at work one day and I started feeling my chest, it’s like it was heavy. The ambulance came, I was– my oxygen– my blood pressure was high, my oxygen level was decreasing rapidly, so they had to put me on oxygen and transport me to the hospital to run a lot of tests. I did an EKG, a CT, I did X-RAY, and I got two medications and it’s about six thous– it came to $15,000 and my medical insurance paid $9,00-something, so I’m down to $6,000 and some change in medical bills. And I’m on a payment plan. I’m not in a rush to pay everything off, 'cause I’m trying to save some money here too so I’m on a plan where I pay a $172 monthly and that is good enough for me.

[Annotation 9]

[Annotation 10]

30:35

Um, do you mind sharing a little bit about your feeling about teaching?

Oh yeah, I love teaching. I love teaching, um, I don’t see doing anything else. I don’t know nothing else, I don’t know anything else. Um, a lot of people can leave teaching and go into something else, but I don’t know anything else. I’ve always wanted to be a teacher from 6 years old. I don’t know anything else, I love teaching. Um, I love teaching back home and I love teaching here in the states. It was a culture shock, but I love teaching here. I love it here. I do see myself staying here beyond my program, hoping that someone will help me to get my Green Card here. But I really do love it here.

What do you teach? What age groups?

I teach eighth grade ELA. I teach English one, the Honors kids, and I teach ELA eighth grade. My kids are amazing. It was a culture shock, as I said, 'cause I don’t have students back home dropping the F-bomb in my classes, so it was really, really a shock when I came, but I like it because we get to integrate technology a lot. Yes, we did use technology back home, but not all classes were equipped with tech– with the technology in classes, but here technology is right across. So I love it here.

Um, if you’re open to it, I’d love to go back to your childhood, if you don’t mind sharing a bit more about your parents, what they did, and then if there’s anything, any significant memories with your sister that you might want to share, anything like that.

Yeah, um, as I said my– my– my parents, they played a very integral role, they were very strict, they were very strict. So my mom believed that everything had to be perfect on the outside, so I adopted that mentality even when you’re going through the worst, you gotta give a picture that it is perfect. Don’t lose that perfect look. So, um, um, even when they were going through stuff and mom would still paint a picture as if it was perfect. They were very strict, my father did not want us playing or associating with other kids in the community 'cause we were a lot more fortunate than they were, so he pulled us away, socially he pulled us away from them. My sister and I, we only had our own company. I had a bicycle, I had to ride it in the yard, I couldn’t go on the road or anything. Um, anything to keep us in home or inside the home, he would do that so my neighbor, I can remember my neighbor got a Nintendo and, um, he realized that we were always over there, and he got a Playstation, he said, “Since you want to game, here’s a game, you don’t need to go to anybody else’s house.” Um, I remember they got a satellite dish. It was the “IN” thing, I think it was early 2000s in Jamaica, the “in” thing was if you got a satellite dish, you are buzzing.  So my neighbor had a satellite dish and we were always hooked on over there and he got a satellite dish, he said, “Well since you want to watch movies, here’s a satellite dish. Stay home.” I remember this– this kid in the community, he had a shih-tzu dog and they were always on the road playing with the dog on the road, and one day my father came home and saw us on the road and he was mad and he went and got a shih-tzu dog for us, and said, “Okay, you want to play with a dog, you play with a dog here.” My dad, he– he did provide for us financially, he did everything. Both my dad and my mom, everything that we needed to create stability, he did that, education, he did that. One thing my dad didn’t do, though, if you had– if you had failed a subject and he had to repay to do that subject over, he’s not gonna do it. He told me and I can remember that, “As long as it is to push you forward, but if you gotta repeat something, you’re on your own.” So, um, I remember when my sister, she was in community college, and I guess it was her first year and she flunked out her first year, all subjects. She failed them all. My dad said, “Nope. Mm–mm.” 'Cause he paid, at that time, he paid about 50,000 Jamaican dollars which is, I’m gonna calculate that, it is about $337 here, so he paid that up for her education for the first semester, 'cause you gotta pay by semester, so it's 100,000 for the year. Um, so she flunked out the first semester and he was like, “No. Not paying.” So my mom had to do that for my sister. She went ahead and she did those courses over, she moved forward. So when I got the opportunity to go to college, um, I didn’t flunk out my first year. I got pregnant in my first year, in my second year of college, so I had whatever he had to take care of, my husband then had to step up and pay some of my tuition with my mom, 'cause my father wasn’t gonna pay, was like, “Okay, you got a man, you got pregnant. He takes care of you now. You’re no longer my responsibility.” Growing up as a child, stability was created in the household. Books weren’t an issue, um, getting school supplies wasn’t an issue. They made sure that we were stable. So yeah.

37:01

Um, what was– what was your experience, and your sister’s experience, when your parents went through their divorce?

My sister took it okay. My sister is a lot like my dad. They are born, they were born like a day apart. Do, um, I don’t think it affected her, and even if it affected her, she doesn’t show it. She’s not that type of person to show emotions. Her emotions are really, really hidden. She has a face like “Okay” and not let it bother her so her emotions are tucked away. On the other end, I do show my emotions, so it was hard on me. I did take it very hard.

Do you mind sharing– oh sorry, what were you saying?

I did take it hard.

Do you mind sharing what– what that, like, what the actual– how would you articulate that experience?

Um, I missed my dad a lot, and I feel like some crap that I took in life I wouldn’t have taken it if I had my dad there. He– I really looked up to him. I loved my dad. He was very handsome. Whenever we went out on trips, all the girls would go crazy over my dad. He was really, really handsome. He’s light-skinned, brown eyes, 'cause his dad is actually Assyrian. So he is really, really, really, um, handsome, and I really loved my dad. I loved him, so when he left the family home, I was just heartbroken. I was heartbroken and I think that a lot of things that I took I could have avoided them if I had my dad there to be that man, be that guidance for me to say, “Hey, this is my daughter, if you hurt her, you hurt me.” So I didn’t have that and that– I think that is one of the things that I missed about having a dad.

Uh, why did your relationship get strained following the divorce?

Um, I’m sorry I didn’t get that.

Why do you not have contact with him, or why did you have less contact with him after your parents divorced?

He said that I took sides with my mom so, um, he prefers not to deal with me. I guess he’s saying that I was a child, I should have stayed in a child’s place and not get entangled with my parents’ situation. My parents’ situation was my parents’ situation so I guess he wasn’t expecting me to take sides, but it’s not about taking sides, it’s about right or wrong, and if you’re doing something wrong, I’m going to call you out on that. If you are wrong, you’re wrong, and if you’re right, I’m gonna tell you that you’re right. So it wasn’t about me taking sides, it was about me realizing that what he was doing was wrong and he was hurting my mom.

40:30

Uh, how did you and your husband initially meet?

Um, it was through, um, mutual friend. It was through a mutual friend. My friend was dating his friend and, um, at the time I was still in high school. I had my little high school boyfriend, but he, um, he came to school one day with, um, some hickeys on his neck and I didn’t put it there, so I said, “Okay then. So since that’s how you want to go, I guess you should just go about your ways, and I’ll go about mine.” And my friend actually said, “Hey, I gotta guy that you could meet.” And I said, “Okay.” And that’s where it came from. When I met my husband, I was madly in love with him. Maybe not in love, I was in love with the idea of being in love. I was infatuated 'cause I was 16, so it wasn’t love. I was infatuated. But he was very handsome, um, and I think that’s what drew me to him. He was attractive. He was. So I met him at 16, I was about 16 that same year. So we met in April and I was gonna turn 16 in June.

Um, thank you for sharing your story. I’m just curious if you might want to speak to why it’s important that you be kept anonymous for this story.

Um, I think I read some part in the– in the agreement that it was gonna be used to do public, go public, or to present in some sympos– or something of that sort, so I just chose to remain, um, anonymous. Of course I want my story to be out there, but I’ve read stories too and people choose to remain anonymous, so I think that it is important that my story gets out, but I would like to remain anonymous.

I just meant more specifically, is it, uh, do you like to stay private, do you like to present yourself, what is the reasoning?

Yes, I’m a private person. I’m a very private person. Um, I’m a very private person. 'cause as I said, I– I developed this mentality from my mom. So I would love my story to get out there, but I wouldn’t want anyone who knows me to know that it is my story 'cause I’m very private, so I chose to remain anonymous.

Um, is there anything you want to share about your two kids?

I love them! Oh my God, my two kids are my world. Um, they make me so proud every day I’m getting all emotional thinking about them. I love them. My older daughter, she is turning 10 this year. I can’t believe I have a ten year old. I’m 29 this year, so that means I had her when I was 19. She turns 10 this year and my younger one turns 3. My 10 year old, she is so smart. Um, and she reasons so well. So whenever I have arguments with her dad I try to not– I don’t want the same thing to happen like my mom and my dad. I try to not let her have any say in it. I don’t want to hear you say, you’re a child stay in your child’s place. Whatever is happening between your dad and I, let it stay between us. But she is so smart, I can’t hide things from her forever. Of course she’s gonna grow up. So I’m trying to keep them as innocent as I can, as long as I can, but she’s so smart, she learns so quickly and she’s good in ELA, she’s not as good in math. She tries so hard in math, but she’s excellent in reading and in ELA. And she’s like, “Of course I got a B, my mom’s an ELA teacher so I have to be smart in ELA.” But she’s very smart and she tries to, um, do everything so perfect, just for me to be proud of her, and there’s some days when she’ll leave some little notes on my table when she gets home, 'cause she comes to me from the elementary school. The school bus drops her off here to me and she’ll write little notes and she’ll write, “You’re stronger than you think,” or “You are amazing, you’re an amazing mom.” She’ll just leave little notes for me and she’s like, “Don’t forget to always be strong.” She’s just always assuring me that I am strong and I can do it. And then my little one, huh, she’s a handful. She’s so much like her dad. My older one is a lot like me. I can see that when I look at her, I see my younger self, but my other one, man. She’s a lot like her dad. She throws her tantrums and she’s so clean, 'cause her dad is really clean. He’s that– that clean, it’s too much for me at some point, you’re just too clean. If I dust something, he goes over it, he’s just too perfect, too clean. So I see my daughter adopting those same things. She’s so tidy, she’s always cleaning up her mess and she’s tidy, she’s a lot like her dad, a lot, but I love them. I love those two girls. I’ll do anything. I tell them that the day someone hurts them, it’s the day I’ll be going to prison. I'm sure of that 'cause nobody’s gonna take [unclear] of my kids. No one is ever going to take my kids or take advantage of my kids. As long as I'm alive, no one will be hurting them.

46:53

Um, is there anything else you’d like to say before we wrap up today?

It’s been an absolute pleasure. Mm-hmm. I’ve never, um, participated in anything like this before, so I can tell you it’s a good experience and it has been an absolute pleasure sharing my story 'cause I know that someone out there is in a similar situation may not be the same, but they’re going through it. Mm-hmm.

[Redacted], thank you so much. I’m gonna stop the recording.

Mm-hmm.   

[End of Recording One]

[Beginning of Recording Two]

 

00:00

Got it?

Ok this is Dan Swern, today is Tuesday May 30, uh, 1:02 pm I’m here at– interviewing–

[Redacted]

Thank you, [Redacted]. And whenever you’re ready, please feel free to continue.

Okay, uh, starting out with my teaching experience, I had six years teaching experience back home. Um, when I came here, it was cut down to about five years because I didn’t do a complete, full-year back home. So it was cut down to about five years now. So basically I have five years teaching experience in the US. That’s how I’m being paid, however, this is my first year, um, actually being in a classroom here. Um, I must tell you that it was different. It was very, very, very different. It was very challenging. Just a minute. [long pause] Thank you. Okay, so as I was saying, it was a lot– it was very, very challenging, um, at first. Um, the culture, it was a big– there was a big difference in cultures here because, um, the discipline here, it’s– it’s a lot loose– it’s looser than the discipline back home. When I say looser, there are strict penalties for disciplining a– for you when you discipline a child in my home country. Um, it depends on the type of school you teach back home in Jamaica, because I taught at an all girls school and we weren't, um, allowed to incorporate, uh, punishment or capital punishment, or corporate punishment in school. Corporal punishment, um, however, there are strict measures that were put in place that covered you in not– uh, you putting your hands on children. So there were, um, penalties or– or strict penalties where if a young lady, um, defied a school rule, she, um, she was placed in a black uniform. She was placed in a black uniform because they were all girls, they were all white, so whenever a child, um, shhh! [laughter and sounds of children] Whenever a child disobeyed or defied a school rule, they were placed in a black uniform and everyone in the county or the– the– here they call it district, so everyone in the district where it would be [Redacted] would know that this child violated a school rule and hence they were being punished. So you know when a child is being punished in different schools because there’s strict penalties that they face when they– they– they– they disobey a specific school rule. There were school rules that were used for grooming, so your hair had to be combed a certain way, your uniform had to be at a certain length, because they wore uniforms back home, and that’s a difference here. They are allowed to wear whatever they choose to wear here, they are able to express however they want to be expressed or whatever they want to be addressed by their pronouns. We have none of that back home, so it was all just a shock here. Um, as I said, the culture it was very shocking, I think. The shock it placed me in, it made– it got me sick. I was sick at some point where my– my mental state, my heal– my physical health started to– to– to reduce– come back– come back– come back– come back. [Laughter] Just a minute. [Long pause]

4:41

I’m sorry about that. Um, where was I? Mmmm, I was talking about grooming, um, we had, we have uniforms back home. So as I was saying, the culture here was very, very different. It took me some time to warm up to the culture here. It took me some time to understand that, hey, using the F-bomb, it’s a very, it’s– it’s very, what would I say? It’s natural of them to use that. It’s okay. Um, we do write referrals here whenever they drop the F-bomb, whenever they drop any kind of expletives, we do have referrals, but I learned the culture here, I know that’s the culture of kids. Um, they speak to their parents as how they feel, and, um, that’s another shock, uh, because back home, kids have 100 respect for their parent. Um, so the culture, the– the– the West Indian, or the Caribbean culture was a lot different than the United States culture, so I had some, I had to adjust a lot. Um, I started in August, September, and by October I was sick. Um, as sick is not being that I was sick of the job, it’s just that my health, my mental health and my physical well-being was not cooperating with me. Um, for my physical well-being, I’m talking about back home. I had time to have breakfast, I could have– I could sit down with my family and have breakfast, but here it’s a very fast-paced, um, country. So if you are not out of the house, or if you are not, um, on the ball rolling, you’re gonna be left behind, so I had to adjust to that as well, and as I said it, it’s all because of a new environment. Uh, getting moving from a whole new country trying to adjust and everything, it was a whole different game for me here. Um, I realized that America is a fast-paced country and I have adjusted to that, that I have adjusted to. I have learned not to, um, take a lot of things, um, personal 'cause that is something that I used to do. Come, come baby, come. Let’s go. So, um, I did take a lot of things personal and I learned how to manage my time well because that’s– I guess that is what the US is run off. It’s based on time. You are paid for your time, um, so I learned that. Um, uh, back to school here now, adjusting to culture. Close the door. What’s he doing? Go with her. Go with her. Um, back to school, now. It was– it was– it was hard getting situated with the– the– the my– my– my colleagues, 'cause I really don’t have, um, a strong relationship with colleagues here. I get to work, conversations that include work, I have that conversation, and then it’s just that. Um, uh, when I first started here though, as I said, I didn’t have racial issues back home. But it was very, very, um, dominant in my school here. Um, so it, it’s, it’s really– that is one of the things that really, really affected me mentally, 'cause I didn’t face racial issues back home at all. Our motto is, “out of many, one people” which means, uh, a lot of people come to our country to live there. We have people from all over the world, from all races that has– that has come to my country Jamaica to live there, and we get along with everyone race, regardless of race, we love each other regardless. Though there are classes and issues in Jamaica where you’re treated differently based on your class, you’re not treated any differently based on your race. So that was kind of, um, shocking to me here. I had students who were racially inappropriate. I had students who lied on me based on my culture. They said that I cursed them out using Jamaican language which I did not. They, they– where is it? That’s not the snake. No it’s not.

10:14

Okay, I’m on a call, okay? Um, so as I said, it was, it– that part really messed with me mentally. And then, um, I know that there’s some environments that you typically have those, um, cultural say in Jamaica, those hypocrites who they talk to you, they smile in front of your face, but behind your back it’s a whole different thing. That is something I observed here and that is one of the reasons why I really keep to myself here. As I said I’m a very private person, I try not to let my business get out there. So I try my best to keep it professional here. And then there are days that you would expect that you were– you would have been treated better by your own kind, that wasn’t the case. That– when I say own kind, I mean my own race. That wasn’t the case here. And so I have learned, I have learned, I have lived and I have learned how to approach certain situations and how to deal with these situations when I stumble upon them. So my– my teaching experience here, it started off pretty rocky, I have survived the year. I’m happy. I am so happy I survived the year and I know that, um, mistakes that I made in my first year of teaching, I definitely would not be making these mistakes in the second year, because I have become situated, I’ve learned the culture, I’ve learned the students, so I know that my second year will be better than my first year. And I’m anticipating my second year, 'cause I really do love teaching. I knew that teaching was something that, um, I was cut out for from a very young age, I knew that I wanted to be a teacher. Uh, so my second year around will be better than my first year.

Thank you, [Redacted], was there anything else you wanted to leave with in talking about your experience?

Um, I guess that’s it, it’s just the cultural difference, but I’m adjusting. I am adjusting. A lot of persons say, “Hey you adjusted so well.” 'Cause sometimes they can hardly hear my Jamaican accent, but it takes a lot of practice, it takes a lot of practice because when I speak fluent, like, I just speak standard English, it’s– it's not so easy 'cause there’s an accent, but, um, I’m– I’m learning. I’m learning, I think they’re learning too. My whole program is about a cultural exchange. I came here on a cultural exchange, so I’m really, really expecting to– to share cultures here hoping that my second year would be okay where my culture’s more accepted. And the ways that, um, some– some things from my culture can share in terms of teaching, I hope that they are open to hear my ideas then in the second year, 'cause they weren’t open in the first year, but I really do hope 'cause it’s a cultural exchange. I’m supposed to share best practices in my home country with you here, and I’m supposed to take your best practice that I have learned here back home. So that is what I hope to achieve here. I am really, really hoping that they’ll adjust because I have adjusted to, um, their culture here. I’m hoping that they’ll compromise and adjust to my culture. Let me share some of my best practices from home here with them.

Thank you so much, [Redacted]. I really appreciate all the time you’ve given to this.

You are most welcome. I enjoy sharing my experience and, um, my story with you guys, with you.

Well thank you, I’ll be in touch with the transcript when it’s available and I’ll send it to you for comment. Um, anything comes up that you want to share with me in the interim, please feel free to reach out otherwise. I’ll be in touch soon. Take care.

Thank you. Bye Dan. Have a good day.

Bye, you too.

[End of Recording Two]