Alejandrina Montesinos discusses the obstacles she has faced as well as the importance of her faith and the unconditional love she has for her family. She left Mexico to better support her children’s educations and futures and was unable to say goodbye to her mother before she passed away. Alejandrina has always worked to give her children a better life than what she has had, and is happy to see them thrive.

“That we shouldn’t lock ourselves up in those problems that we bring, that we’re carrying. Maybe the past can no longer be fixed, but the future can. The future is beautiful, it’s mm, it’s wonderful and it’s uncertain, yes, but we can also work day by day, mhm. To achieve a life of peace, of tranquility, of example.”

— Alejandrina Montesinos

Full English Transcript

Transcripción en Español

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TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Floribel Cruz Hernández

New Brunswick, New Jersey

June 1, 2023

Translation by Aiysha Sipe

Transcription by Aiysha Sipe

[00:00:00]

[Microphone noise heard] Hi, good morning, we're here, uh, in New Brunswick, down the street, down Livinsgton and Hale. Today, June 1st, uh,

mm, it's a great day, it's cool, uh, and we're going to be here with Mrs. Ale, so she can tell us her story. Doña Ale, welcome and tell us.

Hello, how are you Flor, nice to meet you. Thank you very much for this invitation. Well, here we are, to answer the questions you want to ask me. Well, my name is Alejandrina Montesinos. I'm from Oaxaca, Mexico. I left there when I was 14 years old and went to live in Mexico City with some relatives. That's where I worked, that's where I got married. Uh, I have 3, beautiful children, a boy and 2 girls and well, I started at 19 years old, which was when I had my– my baby, my first son, and well, that's where I feel a great responsibility for his education, and that's how my, my struggle begins, with my children, for my family. I start, well, working, seeing, taking the best of Mexico City, because also, because in a city there are more opportunities, in fact, that's the reason of the migration of my people, uh, to the city, aha. I begin to see that there are excellent universities, uh, at the moment that I have my son, well, I begin, with that dream, of wanting a better future for my children, better than mine, in every way. Even though I'm poor, I have a lot of emotional difficulties, because yeah, I come from, from domestic violence, from this– very sad family losses, but my struggle begins. My struggle begins with those dreams of wanting a better future, not so much for me, because I already have my children and I want to see that future that I would have liked to have, in my children. So I start working with a lot of problems, but I start working and, well, I don't give up.

Wow, that's from a strong woman.

Yes, thank God.

Yes, and how was it that– that you had the idea of coming to the United States. What motivated you to– to grab that, uh, how has it been, in– in– in the process and, let– if you didn't leave your children, there in Mexico.

0:03:10

Yes, it's an idea, quite a traumatic one, because this, well, leaving the children is something very terrible. That's the truth. That's the truth. I congratulate all the parents who have their children around. Uh, uh, it is very nice to be close to the children, because sometimes we can do without certain people in our lives, but it is very important to be with your children. Despite the fact that I let mine when they were already grown, because my son, well he was already in the second year of univ– of the university, in the autonomous university of Mexico.

Oh wow.

One of the best universities in Mexico, and that not everyone gets to have a place in it.

There are times when they have a place but it's not because of their effort, but because of the– the economic thing that can reach–

Yes, of course.

It's true that there in Mexico.

Aha, in Mexico you can do many things with money.

Mhm

Aha, then you pay a certain amount and that's it, and that's it, that's it. But in my case it was very different and very special. I say it, because, well, I come from very ignorant families, very poor, poor, poor, what is called poor, because I was orphaned, we were left orphans with 10 siblings. Yes, so my mom also had to fight a lot for us and despite all the emotional problems that we suffered, for me I feel that– that, for me, it is a great achievement that my children have stayed in those universities.

Yes-

Aha, because, in reality, there has been a struggle, big

Mhm

Because I was in extreme poverty in Mexico.

And how did you do it?

I had ideas, I wanted my children's future, much better than mine.

But how did you get one into college? I come from a small town and it's not so easy to enter the university.

It's easy if we as parents have a vision. First of all, it all starts with a dream.

Yes

And the moment I held my son in my arms, I put him in a very high place, I told him you are going to be president of the nation. [Both laugh]

Yes

And I was poor, I don't know how I was going to achieve that, but [laughs] my son is not president of the nation. I think I went very far in my dream, but I began to train, to take the best of the city. I see how these people who have money educate their children, aha, or who are professionals

Mhm

And educate their children, and I began to focus, uh, on them, see how they do it

Yes

0:06:04

And that's what I did, only that in my own environment, low, mine, aha. In my own economic situation. I start to take them to– to some educational centers of sports, arts. I start to go to the museums. There is no money, with three bananas in the bag or three oranges and a few bottles of water and– and we go. The– the days, where, uh, where there's no charge, where it's free. [the interviewer speaks, but it's not clear what she says] Aha, aha, aha, then I'm going with them to the museums and I begin to open up a different path for them than mine.

Wow.

Aha, different from mine. I can't even understand who Picasso is? I say I draw better than Picasso, right? Because, [they both laugh] because I don't understand art very much, but I see that this man, well, he has something good that many appreciate. So I learn to appreciate all that, aha, I mean that we do have the possibilities, we just have to look for them, maybe not in the others’ environment, those who, for example, have studied and have, well, a better economic income than those who haven't. But yes you can, yes you can. If we look for alternatives, aha, that will open up a–

Different–

World to you, different, different, aha.

You think that maybe there can't be that future like that, as you paint it, but at the right time, you say, “I opened a door and a rainbow came out.”

Exactly, exactly.

Because so many doors open and, it's dark, black–

Black or one is locked in–

Or gray.

You're enclosed in a small circle, aha, and I didn't want that small circle, I knew there was an even bigger circle and so that's taking me where I want to be. I put the children in karate classes. My son, who, by the way, sent me a meme today about a little boy who is [laughs] fighting, and he said, “Look mom that's me.” [The interviewer laughs] Oh, yes. I've got pictures of him. Well, I always carry with my three children and at the age of 5 or 6 my son is already competing, in karate, in tae kwon do, down in Mexico.

Oh, look at that.

Aha, in those free classes, in those community classes, aha, and my daughters I put them in gymnastics classes. I tell them, I saw my daughters as international gymnasts. [Laughs] And of course they weren't, they weren't, because it's not their–

It's not their hobby.

It's not their hobby, right? It was mine. It was my– my despair to keep them engaged in good things, in developing their body, their mind. Hmm, giving them another, another life. Hmm, another, another future, mhm.

0:09:08

And at what point did you have to leave those children, as you say, and come here?

Well, these great children, they begin to learn, to live differently. My oldest son enters the university, the other one is in high school, finishing high school and getting ready to go to college. The little girl is in junior high, getting ready to continue her studies. Then, at this point, I had a problem with my husband, who no longer wanted to help me with them, with their education, with nothing for them.

Okay

Aha, and that's where I see my children with that future and, and well, I don't want to cut them off by economic means, because we had gone through the worst things, let's say that my, my, my emotions, my sorrows, we had already gone through them, and they were already on their way to a better future. [Clears throat] So I sit down to talk to them. I already have a lot of debts because, well, the schools are not expensive, but the maintenance of them–

Yes–

Is expensive. Aha, the books, the projects they are asked to do are expensive. The technology, that you have to have internet, telephone, everything that grows with them, well, and that is necessary.

Yes.

Aha, then, well, I see myself in that need that– that I have no way of how to get them ahead, aha, so I make that decision, the three– the four of us, that decision to come here.

Oh wow.

Aha and then I start planning everything with, so much sadness, because I had my mother, already in a terminal stage of diabetes. It was the hardest thing I ever had. I said goodbye to my children and I know that I'm going to see them again, but not my mom.

It is a very sad thing when you say, "the children, I'm going to see them again maybe, but the parents, like–

Aha–

It is like–

Yes–

A knot–

Aha

In the heart.

And I didn't even know how to bring it up with my mom, but I told her, “mom I have a lot of problems, my husband doesn't help me anymore, I have a lot of debts. I don't want to cut short my children's future because of lack of money, because we had already crossed that poverty and we were on the right track.” Thank God that my children came out, like, dedicated, focused,

0:12:00

and listening to me too. Well, I'm also very strict, I'm very disciplined. [laughs] So it all goes hand in hand, doesn't it? Aha, I don't know, I feel like I had to do a lot of things to achieve this, this future that I have today. Mhm, maybe for many people this means nothing, but for me, it means everything.

Mhm.

Means everything and, well, I came here. I say goodbye to my mom with the certainty that we are not going to see each other again.

Very sad, yes. And so, two years after I was here, my mom passed away.

But she lasted for two more years.

Yes, two years more, aha.

Wow.

But she, well, every time we talked she said, "if one day you know I'm gone, well, don't worry, don't feel bad.” [Her voice breaks down]

A mother always has those words that they are always going to fill, like, this hole even though they are no longer there.

Aha, and, no, they don't blame you.

Yes.

This is a love, well, unconditional

And yes, perhaps now that you are a mother, you understand.

Aha, at the time [the interviewer laughs]–

The lady was rebellious, right?

[They both laugh] Yes, and, well, that's what happened to me. And from here I start working. I arrived. I start working day and night. I also try to learn about the law here in this country, well from Mexico I have already sent, uh, mm, uh, requested, the demand of child support.

Okay.

For my children. Yes, it was given to me, thank God it was given to me, but the man did not– Never helped.

Never helped, yes. [Both laugh]

Over there it's not the same as here, because here you put in the Child Support thing and you automatically know that the money will have to arrive.

Yes, aha.

Well, as long as you put it in quotation marks.

Yes, aha.

And there in Mexico, well, even if the sue is already in place–

The sue and everything [they say it in unison] well, no, It just doesn't– it doesn't work, aha. But then, I get here, I start working. I try to look again at the Child Support sue, because I find myself with the obstacle that, well, it can't be done, because the children are not with me.

Oh!

Aha. So, here, I completely stop myself. I said, I'm not going to waste any more time–

Looking for–

to be looking for this man [her husband], because, well, the authority is already there, but it has it's rules, right?

Mhm

Aha and I couldn't abide by those rules, I couldn't bring my kids because they were studying, mhm. So, I said no, "I'm going to focus on working with a lot of sadness, with a lot of frustration– And rage.

And rage,because he causes that by seeing him holding hands with a lady and me working day and night because he is in this town.

0:15:00

Aha, yes I mean, [laughs] I mean, I've had to go through a lot of things.

What is life.

And that, aha–

What is life like or what is destiny like–

Yes,

Because imagine, uh, from being far away in– in Mexico–

Aha

And like to meet again.

I know [both laugh].

Again here.

With the same stone [both laugh]

In the same town in the United States.

Yes, aha. I came here because, well, he came because my brother was here, and my brother helped him to– to get through. My brother was thinking about a future for mmm– for my children

His children.

For us. Aha, but here he has already made his– his own decisions, aha.

How life changes, right?

Yes.

People change when they see money.

Yes. Aha, well, maybe he never fell in love with the family like I did, you see? Aha–

Yes.

So, well–

Maybe yes, but well, uh, I don't know, there are many things here, uh, you can have and decide, like–

Yes

Like oh no, it doesn't matter, I don't live with her anymore, I'm not seeing them anymore. Yes, some say, "well, in Mexico is one thing, here it's something else." [interviewer laughs] I said, "oh so you change– change your country as you– you change your mother too." [both laugh]

Yes

And then, here people can take different paths.

Yes

Aha and little by little with that, uh, vulnerable part that one brings, pulls it too. So, it's also understandable, because we've been dragging a lot of things, a lot of sadness, a lot of loneliness, a lot of shortcomings, aha, and a lot of ignorance too.

Yes

Ah, and far from– from looking for, well, a bi– beautiful future for us–

Once again one gets tangled up–

Yes, aha

In the same thing.

Aha, we go back, to get into that same circle, vicious, aha

Yes.

That same of– of being little, mhm–

Yes

Of not going further, mhm,

Like why should I do it if my family has always been, has maintained, has survived?

Yes, aha, exactly! So, they want to follow that same role, aha, and well, I didn't– I didn't want to follow that same role. Although I recognize that in my family there are many very good things, very good things that I have had to learn, because I am very rebellious. [they both laugh]

And I see you, and I see you well-behaved, Doña Ale.

[They both laugh] No, I'm a rebel. No, to me, uh, It's not easy for me, me, to convince me of something, I have to find out why–

And why and why and so it takes me further and beyond

You will be like babies when they start–

Yes

To ask why.

And why and for what [laughs]

They are already eating the food and asking why.

[both of them laugh] Yes, so I'm very rebellious. I'm a bit stubborn, but, once I understand it I say, "oh okay, I have to line up." I have to align myself, I have to focus, I have to do this, and that's how I've continued, well, my life.

0:18:03

So, you work here, what did you start working on?

Uh, I started working in a wood factory, where they made little furniture out of wood, that trunk, those boxes that I have there–

They are heavy.

Yes, aha, man's work, but I liked it a lot.

Really?

Yes, it was a very quiet job, where we worked very little. Most of them were people from Puebla Oh, look

And I have a lot of friends from Puebla, because I have gotten along well with them, because they've got a way of being like– like they're very resourceful, they're wise, aha, they treat you, kind, they put up with you. [Both laugh]

Like, I think that we are, uh, those of us who are from Oaxaca and Puebla maybe at some point we are adjacent.

Aha.

And maybe that, that closeness, well–

perhaps

Makes it possible for us to get together again.

To get together.

Even though we are far from the country.

Of the country, yes, aha. And I've worked for many years, like fourteen years I worked with them.

Oh wow.

In that job, I'm also not much of a job changer, [clears throat] I try to fit into one–

Mhm

And well, uh, the jobs are close by, aha–

Yes

So I can go there walking or I can take a taxi, but it doesn't cost me much. That's the good thing about New Brunswick, well, that there's a lot of work, because I've known places that, or people come from– from Elizabeth for example, from Newark.

Up here

To work here and I say wow, I wouldn't work like that, but because I don't have the need, if I had it maybe I would. Aha, so, the family came here, uh, my brother, my brothers, I came here too, because where else would I go? You always go where your family is, where they're going to help you–

Yes

Aha, exactly. Well, I didn't have to sail much. Thank God for that family that was already there. But those first ones who arrived, well, yes–

They had–

They had to suffer, aha, yes they had to suffer. So thank God, I only suffered, the emotional part–

The change

Of the change, I couldn't, I had never left my children, mhm,

Imagine and the city of– of Mexico, it's very busy, uh, how it was, how–

A lot– a lot going on, very busy

The pollution

Yes, it has everything

Right?

But it also has many good things that are what I like. When I arrived in Mexico City, as a young woman, there were indeed many changes, but I said this is my place.

Oh, you mean, you liked it.

I liked it. I liked it.

Yes

Nobody knows you there.

Okay

Aha, then, even if they criticize you, well, they don't know me [they both laugh]

You don't know where I come from–

Oh, yeah, right? Aha, and even though it has a lot of violence too, because I've been held at gunpoint several times in a robbery.

0:21:01

Really?

Yes, in Mexico City

Uh, that's right. Uh, I think my sister had told me, when she was going to college, she had her books–

Mhm

And she said she didn't want to let them go. She said because they are my books, I paid for them, I don't know if the books cost $400-500, and she said, “but I had to leave them because well, either it's life–

Or it's life, yes

or the books.”

Yes. I've had money stolen from me, $2000 pesos, $3000 pesos that I'm going to take out of the bank for the needs of my children and I've had to give it away. 'Cause they're pointing guns at me. What else would I do? Mhm. And I've been frustrated. No, at that moment I don't feel afraid.

Really?

No. [laughs] I'm like, I want to kill you too. [They both laugh] But I think about my children, about my life and I say, "no, just because this guy is crazy doesn't mean that I am too."

Exactly

Aha, so then take it, let's see how long it lasts, mhm, I'm going to lose this, but I'm going to win later, because I'm healthy in my head, [sound of birds] mhm.

Yes

Aha, and so

Wow

Aha, but yes, I've liked the city a lot, it has a lot of very good things, which is what we have to take advantage of wherever we are. Mhm, wherever we are we always have to see what we can win.

yes

Mhm, to see what we can add, mhm–

To what we can, uh, have so that– that it gives us– the City, perhaps it opens its doors to us, and if you look for it, you will find–

Yeah, you find–

The things one is looking for.

Yes, here in Brunswick, perhaps what it would need a little bit is more diffusion of the– of the activities that they have.

That they have.

Perhaps, because– because indeed as one comes with so many problems and is focused on trying to earn that– that money to be able to send it, because of the need over there, aha, and– and, and you get locked in that, aha. But yes, but if I have a neighbor or a co-worker who says, "Hey, how are you? Hmm, what, how's your life, where do you come from, what are you doing? How did you get here?" And– and– and you start talking and he says, "Look, don't worry I have one, I know of an organization that can help you with this," aha, "how do you feel?" Aha.

Or there are times when there are classes like yoga, exercise, or whatever, and if you want to do it, you can do it.

Do it, you can do it.

There's access.

Aha, yes, or to join, I don't know, when I arrived, well, I can tell you that I felt that way, besides I was working day and night, I was working full pay in that factory that, well, helped me a lot. Those same colleagues from Puebla were working part time at a buffet, from here from the 130, the Fun Time Buffet (unclear)

And I also went to work there with them, because it was a very good job and it didn't close late, aha.

0:24:00

Because there are many part time, but they close until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning.

Yes.

And how much are you going to sleep? Aha, but there, they closed at 11:00, so I left at 4:00, and at 5:00 we entered the other one, aha. I always went and most of them worked there.

Well, you were suited for the two jobs.

Yes, the Lord has everything for you. You just have to take it, what he's offering you, aha, and even though at that time I wasn't so– I was a believer, because I've always known that there's a strength that doesn't come so much from me, inside of me, because I've always had that struggle to get ahead, to go beyond– to go beyond the comfort that one has, I could have stayed there in my little town and married someone from around and had many children.

Another drunk

[both laugh] Aha, but, that wasn't my vision, I don't know, my destiny. I don't know what the Lord had for me, but it didn't happen like that.The reality is this that I have. Aha, and so, well, I'm working there, talking day and night with my children, “Are you awake? Did you leave? Did you come back? How are you? What, what's missing? What, what did you do for homework? You didn't do homework?” In other words, from here–

Giving orders

To over there.

So that it would run its whole course.

So that its whole course, aha, because when I came my brothers told me, “why are you leaving? Your children are not going to get ahead, because you are not going to be there.” But I trusted in God first, and in the education that I had given them as a child, because I have always been disciplined. On Saturdays I never let the kids sleep late. I always woke them up at 6:00 in the morning so that we could go to the ecological reserves that there are in Mexico, which are very beautiful; to run, to walk, to climb that distant hill, there I would take them with three oranges, three bananas, and a– and bottles of water, only with that, 'cause I didn't have any money other than for the transportation to go there, mhm.

But many, many families live like that. I mean, no, you're not the first one that says that in Mexico, that's how people live. Uh, the– when you go over there, you say, "oh it's Mexico," but it has a lot, as you say, illusions, goals–

Goals, yes

That the people who live there, do not see as an obstacle to say, I'm not going to die of hunger.

Of course!

And I can go to, to, as you say, to the mountain or to–

A museum

To the zoo, to the museum–

Mhm

And as you said they're free tickets.

Aha

That's what this is about, maybe people who want to improve themselves–

Aha

That they say, "this doesn't stop me,"

Seeking, Seeking the Way, the form–

0:27:00

Yeah, and that doesn't stop them from saying, "just with an orange or a banana all day,” no–

No.

On the contrary, and if you say God is going to provide at the moment, maybe right there they will even give you a sandwich or–

Or they give you a sample of something and that's it. [both laugh]

With that they filled their belly a little [continues laughing] and also in their day so that they are not–

And besides, it's fruit and water, two very good elements for the body [laughs] if we look at it that way, right? Yes, I was talking to one of my nephews and he would tell me, "Oh auntie, he said, when so-and-so was from here, who came from here, who said he had money, well he did have a little more, right? Because here you work, you work too hard to be able to have something,” aha, and he said, "I saw that he bought a Coke and how delicious he drank it,” he says, “and I wanted that Coke, auntie." I tell him, "Look, mijito, yes, you're right, when you're a kid you want a lot of things, but you know what? It's a good thing you couldn't drink it, because you didn't get sick, because that coke is actually not healthy at all, it's too much sugar, that when you're prone to it, it becomes like a vice and it–

Hurt you

And you get sicker and sicker." So, let's look at it on the kind side, like El Chavo says. [They both laugh]

So– so then you say that you came here, you were working, and then how did you get more involved in the– in the– in the– in the community? How did you start looking, like, where there were things for you to go to or like you say to go out to–

Mhm

here?

Aha, yes, well, I'm here and I'm starting to work. First of all, I focus on the education of my children, I start working, I start working and I start talking to people. Amanda, I see her starting to get into activism and then, well, she introduces me to you, and I start to see a lot of things, right? And, and I'm start to admire you, mhm, I'm starting to admire you, I said, "Well, these girls are brave." [Laughs] Because, I've gone out with you before, but I go with– with a little bit of fear, like, I don't really like the– the shouting, but, [laughs] but, well, the Lord says, “blessed are those who work for peace,” mhm.

Yes

So, I also believe that God goes with you, although you, uh, mm, uh, maybe you do not feel it [the interviewer says something, but it is not understood, they both laugh] or your mind is not precisely focused on– on God, because sometimes it happens, we do not have that spiritual, maturity, because we do not have knowledge of God, aha. Then I start to see you and mm, and– and I– my oldest son graduates. It's an achievement, hmm–

Tremendous

Tremendous for me. Ever since he got in–

0:29:59

Well, it was a great joy, right? My heart was filled with pride, but the process was missing, mhm, the process was missing, now from here get him to graduate, then. Aha, and alone.

Alone.

Alone, because the father’s here, me, I’m here, my children totally vulnerable, alone.

Wow

Aha, and that's why I say that it's by the grace of God that they've achieved it and our effort, because also, they were working, and I was working and they studying, so–

In other words, you helped them here financially, they also valued it there.

They valued the sacrifice.

The effort you were making.

I– I used to call them and say, “the looks of all the people are going to be in you to see when you fall, because people are not there to cheer you on–

Mm-mm

they are there to tell you, see?

I told you

I told you!” [They both laugh] Aha, that even happens to me, that's an ugly form of the human being. [Laughs] Aha, instead of cheering you on, it discourages you and says, "Look, see?" [they both laugh]

Yes

Aha, then, well, I'm coming here, but I don't feel happy. Yes, I feel a little proud, but with– with an overflowing pride, that doesn't make me happy, that doesn't make me a good person. But I couldn't hug the Lord, because I was struggling, like, on my own, mhm, well, since I arrived here, I never stopped going to Mass. I like the church of El Carmen very much, because it is a church that has several schedules.

Yes

Aha, of service of the mm, of the– of the mass, of the consecration, which is the most important thing for a Catholic. I am Catholic. I was born a Catholic. I've been a very bad Catholic in the past, but thanks to God's mercy, I've redeemed myself, mhm, I've tried to find this knowledge. When I have these questions, why, why am I feeling this way? [sighs] I get very angry with myself, because how is it possible that I don't have that bad life anymore, that I'm seeing the future realized. Mhm. So, then, I start that search, what am I missing? What?

0:33:00

Why be like this?

Why be like this? It doesn't make sense, if– if I'm achieving what I've fought for and why do I feel, exhausted? I should feel liberated, at the top–

Happy

Happy, aha, 'cause I'm at the top. [they both laugh] Aha, I needed God's love, for me to embrace God's love. Definitely. I mean, it's not, not like I was hugging it, a little bit and when it suits me–

A little bit and if it doesn't suit me I'll let it go.

I let it go, aha, because, that yoke of the Lord is very heavy, aha, and another thing I said, well, since I'm from that era, from that era, from those people, who also wanted to be with womens, liberation, which has many good things, but there are others that aren't so much, mhm.

It's very much as if the power that one can have as a woman is like the same thing you say–

Aha

You were able to get to work here and your children also helping you there so that you could prosper all together.

All together, exactly, aha.

It's this kind of power, I say power because if it was another woman she would say I have to look for a man to support me and my children, because that's how we've been raised, but the power, as you say, of woman, drove you, to, to come here.

Yes, I mean, we really need to liberate, but liberate in the right way.

Yes

Aha, definitely, because there are a lot of things where we are a little lost. Aha, then I, well, I stick to the faith, I said. Well, one day I went to Mass and a lady gave me a little booklet from a Bible study and I said, well, well, in reality I have never given time, dedicated time to God. I don't really know my faith, I think the time has come when I should know more, aha. I take the sheet from the sister who stretched it out to me so she could give it to me. [Laughs] Blessed are those servants, who dare to raise their hands and say, "look, take this booklet," mhm.

Yes

Aha, blessed are those servants, because the Lord is very beautiful, because he says, "blessed are all those who fight for peace," and does not specify only those who are in the church, but also those who are outside the church.

Because they are fighting for something.

Yes, mm, he gave them that gift of, of wasting saliva and screaming. [They both laugh] And to have that courage to say, “yes here I am, listen to me!” Aha.

Sometimes those types of organizations don't just fight for, for–

For yours

But maybe for the future that is coming for your children

For the others who can't be there or who are cowards and don't dare, or who don't know–

Or for ecology

Aha

For the earth

For many things

To raise people's awareness.

0:36:00

Yes, of course, they are very good, I've always admired them, although I have been ignorant, but I have always admired them, and I always tell them that God blesses them, and when I can join, then I join in, even if it is cowardly, but I join in. [They both laugh]

Even if it's just to count more people.

Yes.

Exactly, and to be present.

[They both laugh] Yes, so I take this Bible course and it was the filling of my life. In other words, it is to know true love. The love that gives eternal life. The love that gives joy, that gives happiness.

So your–

Because you still have the same problems, but they don't affect you the same way anymore. So, you changed, your– your– not your environment, you changed your mentality.

It's my mentality and my heart.

And your way of thinking–

Aha

Of seeing life.

Of seeing life, of feeling life, of valuing life. To– to look at the past no longer with that resentment and sadness, but to see, of everything that has grown in you, mhm, of what has grown in you and that God has always sustained you.

Mhm, maybe you–

And has prospered–

You saw how bad the process was, right?

Yes, aha.

Why did this cut me short, why did I have to go through this, when on the other side maybe there was that little seed growing that maybe you didn't see coming?

But that was going to bear fruit.

It was going to bear fruit, but you say, "No, but I see-

[laughs] It's just that the– the–

the weeds–

[they both laugh] the growth and the weeds are there, but you have to remove it, in other words, you have to give more strength to that plant that is going to bear fruit.

Yes,

And not to those weeds that are not going to bear fruit.

But sometimes we keep more of those weeds.

That's the achievement, that's the problem.

You can see the weeds greener and you say, “oh!” Even if it doesn't give you anything, just 'cause it looks greener.

Yes, aha.

For me it's fine.

Yes, yes, yes

And no, because if you see how beautiful that flower is going to bloom–

Yes, of course

You'll say I'll take all that away.

Yes, or let it stay, let it grow if it wants, but I– I'm going to go for the side that is going to bear fruit.

Yes.

Aha, then that's the knowledge of God. It's this, to have knowledge basically of him, I believe that if we have that knowledge, we will be less affected by the things of life and we will understand the process of our life.

Uh. By knowing God, you loved the church, that was were here–

Mhm

Were you able to go out, could you see other places, so to speak?

Yes, of course, well I'm a, vagrant [laughs] inveterate. [Laughs] That's the thing about me, I've had that serious problem since I was born. Well, that's just how my dad was, aha. I was born in Oaxaca, in a little town cornered, El Camen, which is called, but when I was 3 years old we moved to the city of Morelos.

0:39:00

Cuernavaca, aha.

It's very nice there.

Yes, aha. Because my dad was like that, he was taking us with all the kids, he took us there, because he was looking for job opportunities, according to him, aha, so we were there for a while, then we went back to–

To the village.

To the village, but I didn't– I didn't fit there anymore, mhm.

In the village?

In the village. I already had friends from the city and I saw that those girls thought differently, they were different. And then, no, mm, they want to marry me there and I didn't want to get married there, I didn't want to get married there, I feel like it's not for me, mhm, and maybe I made a mistake with my husband, but, it was something that I chose, well, I can't [laughs] say now that they forced me or made me to.

Yes.

Otherwise, it is something that I chose, or, or maybe not, maybe it was the Lord that said to me, "Ah, well, that gentleman suits you." [laughs] That later we didn't know how to value marriage, well, it's something else, mhm, because well, each mm, each person has their way of thinking, their way of doing things, aha. We didn't couple and that's the end of it, the couple marriage, mhm. I get to the marriage, because well, in the Catholic religion, we get married only one time and until the other couple dies, then you can marry someone else, mhm. Or live with someone else, but, I've decided to take the marriage, well, until, God willing, mhm. If my husband wants to have someone else, well, so be it, right? Because salvation is, different, it is individual.

Individual.

Individual, each one, we are going to be judged by our own actions, aha, aha, and, well, I have decided to carry out my marriage alone, mhm.

And see, it's truth that–

With the hand of the Lord

And it's true, it feels– it's not liberated, but you do feel calm, at peace, to say maybe, yes, I am leading the marriage myself, and I do not do it so much for my partner or for, or, uh, or as a couple, but, like you said, I do it, personally, but already with God.

With God, of course! I know that God is here.

And– and– and there is a tranquility, so great, because you can say, yes I– at least right now I am alone, but I know that I'm with God and wherever I go he will accompany me.

Of course

And it's fine, there's not that feeling like, "Oh look, I'm already seeing him going with someone else and [laughs] I'm alone, I have to look for someone because I need to–”

No.

No, you're like, well, if you left, God bless you.

Of course! If God has allowed you, if God has allowed you to walk like this, well, he will know why.

Mhm.

Aha, I can't question God either, like listen to me Lord! Sometimes I question him and I say, “Hey, Lord, that's not the way things are.” [both laugh]

0:42:01

But then I remember and laugh, oh what a daring daughter you have! No, no, no, and I beg for forgiveness, but , no, uh, that's what you give when you have knowledge, because when you don't have knowledge and you do it because you want to, like, like pretending or forcing yourself to do things, it causes sadness and bitterness, but when you do it with knowledge, having a base of knowledge, you know what, what awaits you, what you have for yourself.

Mhm, yeah.

Which is something very beautiful, very big. To have this freedom, wow.

I see it when you post on FaceBook, “I went to such and such a place.”

Yes!

“Here I am, with this one,” right?

Yes, and in this process, because I know, I begin to meet many people. I know many people, not only from New Brunswick, but from other churches, because I became a servant, actively for a few years, and later, well, I left because I needed to work in– in another part-time, but I said to the Lord, "I'm going out of this group, but I'll talk about your love–

Always.

Always. Wherever I stand, with whomever you want, I will speak of your love. Not so much about the punishment that does exist, but I will talk about your love, your love is great, your love, gives you the, the victory, the glory, from here in– in life–

To do the–

on earth.”

Transformation.

Yes, aha, aha.

Positive for your life.

Positive for your life, full–

Full–

A full life, mhm.

Yes.

Aha. That we are going to have complete fullness when we see ourselves with that love of loves, aha. There is still a long way to go, but we have already begun to– to– to walk and to participate in that life, uh, uh, wonderful in heaven here on earth, yes we can, mhm. That is why the Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ, said, "The kingdom of God is near, it is already with you," he says, his word, well, mhm, his commandments. He's the eternal life, mhm. And that's how I started meeting people. I meet [cleans throat] some people who help me stay a tramp. [Laughs] I meet Brandon one day, from a church in New York, and I start to hear these trips, and one of the most incredible was the trip to Niagara Falls. Aha. I hear from this gentleman that he is organizing that trip to Niagara Falls, it was a dream of mine, I– from when I was in Mexico.

Oh, yeah?

Aha, and I saw it as impossible, because seeing all my poverty, trying to raise my children, but I thought it was impossible to get to know those Niagara, but I said, "I want to go, even if I'm dead, I want to go."

0:45:01

[They both laugh] I used to say, that when I die, my ashes should be entrusted to someone and so they could throw me there in [both laugh] the Niagara.

You were going to be there.

[They both continue laughing] You see the crazy thing of dreams. [They both continue to laugh] Aha, and then, when I hear about it, the information echoes in me, like, a trip to Niagara, and I'm like, what?

Let's go!

I kept that idea, and said, “My God, will it be possible that I will go to Niagara?” [laughs] Will it be? And since I didn't know this man, I was scared. So I go to church and I say, I start talking to the Blessed Sacrament and I say, “Lord, give me a sign if, if you give me permission to go, because I want to go!” [laughs] And the Lord who is so good and merciful, he sees your heart's longings. [A bird is heard] And– and– and he gives me the sign.

Really?

Really. I was cleaning the church and no one came to help me clean that day. There is always a small group, we get together and we go to clean the church, but that day no one came, everyone had things to do and it was my turn to go. [A bird is heard] I arrive and I start cleaning, cleaning, and I start to arrange all the books on the benches, when I see a little coin purse, tiny, for a girl. Aha, and, and I keep talking to the Lord, I'm sweeping, but I'm talking to the Lord, "Oh please, Lord, I want to go to Niagara.” [Both laugh] [Birds are heard]

Ah, it's like the father who, like, you are afraid to ask his permission, because he can say no.

You're not going! [Laughs]

Just no, and, well he can say too, "Okay daughter, it's okay, go now, you've already came to– to clean my house, I'll give you permission to go."

Aha, give me a sign I can go and I had no money, no money. My son had graduated, so I had spent on his graduation. I didn't have any money, I wasn't going to the part-time, because I got sick. I wasn't going to the part-time, so I didn't have any money. I had no money. I said, "I don't have any money, but I'm leaving, even if I'm poor, I'm leaving." [Laughs] But if you give me permission and I– and he gave me the sign. I find that coin purse and I see it pot-bellied–

Mhm

And, and that's it, I finished cleaning and said oh, "where should I leave the purse," but I see it, pot-bellied and– and I said, "it has money," and I– it– and it had exactly the amount for the ticket. The ticket to go to the Niagara. I said, "So this is your sign, I can go, right?" [Interviewer laughs and says something but it's not understood] And I took it as a sign. I didn't take the money. I gave it to the father who was coming in and out and went in and out, he was leaving and he wasn't leaving, he even told me to close the door, "yes father I'll close it," but he went in and out and I told him, “father I found a purse here.” And he said, "oh take it," he says, "they don't even claim it," he says, "then they don't even know where they lost it," he says, "we have a lot of things there that we throw away and we don't." I tell him, "but it has money." "Well, take it," he tells me. I tell him, "oh no, father, I won't take the money." [Laughs]

0:48:09

I said, "Look, I'll leave it there. You know what you're using it for." Since he's a father, a missionary, he goes to the very poor communities of Guatemala or Mexico, so he always takes something for those people, for the people, aha. So, I said, "For your missions," mhm, that I'm poor, but I'm going to go with my own means, aha. So, I only had my ticket, some sandwiches we made with Amanda. I went with Amanda. [they both laugh]

When you went the first time

The first time, with my usual traveler, because I've always traveled with her, that we're going to the bear mountain.

Oh, yes.

Aha, aha, I say, "let's go!" and the last few days she was already backing down, because her husband wouldn't let her go. [They both laugh] But since she's daring. [they both laugh]

I'm leaving!

Aha, well, and we left, even if it's with less, we left. There I felt that you can achieve your dreams. Yours, your own, even if you're already grown up.

Yeah.

Aha, yes it's okay that you focused on your kids and everything, but there's also another part of you, mhm, another part of you, that you have to keep living. Aha.

Right now your children are grown, right?

They're already grown, mm, the oldest is 33 years old, the second one is 30 and the other one is 29.

Imagine, right now, as you say, that time is over, of supporting them, of thinking about their education.

Yes

About their food.

Mhm.

And right now, comes, uh, mm, another doña Ale is coming out.

Yes, another stage of life.

Yes

Another stage of life in which we must live intensely, too. We must live the whole stage of life intensely and not wait–

Until–

Things go well for you, because you are poor, [laughs] that is the reality. [laughs]

Always.

That's the reality, we are short of resources, but we can travel with those scarce resources, we can study with those scarce resources, because, thank God, there has always been a community that fights for the rights of people in the moment and in the future.

Yes.

Aha, so that's why I tell you that the Lord says, "Blessed are those who fight for peace," because those same fools, they continue that legacy.

Yes.

Aha, for the future generations. So, we must add to that, mhm, and take advantage of what others have struggled with, mhm. So if they've already put it on you, take it, mija!

0:51:02

Take it and go! Enjoy, life is wonderful, God has designed it for you, mhm. So I start to discover these trips with the church and there, there I am stuck like a tick, [laughs] with the church. [Laughs] And thank God that I discovered it with the church, like, a right way, a right door that was opened to me, mhm.

And– and that door, or that happened here in New Brunswick?

Here in New Brunswick, bless God. What I don't like about New Brunswick is that it has a lot of bars and a lot of cantinas. That's what I feel like there shouldn't be so much, or also that parents work a lot with their children so that they don't go to those places, to show them the right way, the– the intellectuals, to get a– a career, a study, even if it is small, even if it is short, a two-year one, but that they do instill in them, that it helps them, to recognize what their talent is.

Mhm

Mhm. Not just anything. Also as parents we must look, observe our children in their games, in their actions, in their studies, what they are capable of, aha, whatever you see they are capable–

Work on that.

Work on that. Take them, take them, take them. That he draws very well, oh well, buy him many sheets and many books. Look, I bought, buy a hundred, buy a thousand, I bought the paper sheets, in a central place where they sell you wholesale.

Oh.

Aha, because there were three children.

They're crazy.

Crazy and me being poor [laughs] and wanting to have intellectual children [laughs] well, all you have to do is find a way.

Yes.

Find a way. I used to buy boxes of notebooks.

0:53:03

Very clever.

Boxes of pens, boxes of colors. I spent about 3,000-4,000 Mexican pesos, which is not easy to get, and I kept it throughout the year for the start of classes.

But you knew that you had that, that your son was never going to say that he didn't have a color, he didn't have a pen to write with.

Yes, I mean, there were no excuses, we had what was necessary to make sure that there is what is necessary for your children's studies.

Mhm.

Here I see that there is a library.

Yeah.

You also have to take the children, you don't have books in your house, because you are poor, or you don't have the idea, you don't have the knowledge, I don't know. Whatever your hindrance is. Take them to the library, which is full of books. And not just books, there are people who– who are there to help them, if you can't find the book, you can ask, right?

Mhm

They can help you find what you want, what are you are looking for. If they don't have it, they can guide you where you can find it, or things like that. Or programs that are also available, you can find them there. That's what I see in New Brunswick, it's a matter of the father not having that laziness of saying, "oh I have to stop drinking my beer to take the kid there." Put your beer aside! Take him, man, you'll drink it later, I don't know. Modify your– your taste.

Yes.

But always focus on the children first, the priority has to be our children, and we have to be with them, join with them, because, just as they learn, so do we. I studied three times at the university.

Oh!

With my children [they both laugh] I studied three times at elementary school [interviewer laughs].

Yes

Mmm, mm, three times at middle school. So it's an art with your children, you learn with. My children have taught me enormously. They have taught me enormously.

You have already graduated three times from college.

It's already my fourth time. [They both laugh] So, yes, that's the story here in New Brunswick. It has a lot of good things, it has a lot of churches, a lot of schedules, it's just a matter of you knowing them. The church of El Carmen has many hours in the– in the morning. Whenever I can I take brochures and give them to people at work, look here is the address, because many just arrive and don't know, aha. So there's always someone, a helping hand says look, here's the address, the brochure.

So they don't say that there aren't any free places to go.

There are no places, aha, exactly, aha. Do you want to travel, do you want to go out? Come on, I'll take you, I'll invite you, I'll tell you how, aha–

Yes.

Yes, there's a way, a way, to do things and feel good.

0:55:54

Yes, well, Mrs. Ale, thank you very much for telling me your story. Um, no, I didn't know everything you had told me, but I have known you for a while. It's, well, at least I feel like you're a person that we can take an example from– from here on out, maybe not the past, we don't want to, we don't want to go through it, [they both laugh] but from here to– to– we've seen you as, how you are. Uh, your– your way of– of continuing, maybe as the word of God, both in normal life, uh, as one can say, very different in the– in this city you already see a lot of things, maybe you would say, bad ones, but to not see that and see how the flowers are blooming–

Exactly.

And maybe one of those flowers is you, because we have seen you as maybe, that, yes, you can– you can travel, you can look for information, and thank you for telling us your story, and we will see you soon.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Well, uh, excuse me, I apologize for– for the scolding that I sometimes give, sometimes, I exaggerate strictly, like, my children tell me, "like you kind of feel like the mother of the chickens." I say, "Yes, maybe I do, but I also feel that if we don't speak the truth and we don't give people good advice, what are we doing as a community as well?” Uh, mm, perhaps not so much of those who have no faith as children of God, as Christians, but as a community, we also have the responsibility to give a word of encouragement and to inform people what it is that they can have, of how they should seek help. We shouldn't lock ourselves up in those problems that we bring, that we're carrying. Maybe the past can no longer be fixed, but the future can. The future is beautiful, it's mm, it's wonderful and it's uncertain, yes, but we can also work day by day, mhm, to achieve a life of peace, of tranquility, of example. Thank you very much because, if you may see me as well as an example, I hope I will not fail you, and if one day I fail you, then pray for me and tell me, "You were not like that." [They both laugh]

Okay. Thank you very much Mrs. Ale, we'll continue to listen to you, okay.

Bye.

Bye.

SPANISH TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Floribel Cruz Hernández

New Brunswick, New Jersey

June 1, 2023

Translation by Aiysha Sipe

Transcription by Aiysha Sipe

[00:00:00]

[Se escucha ruido de micrófono] Hola, buenos días, estamos aquí, eh, en New Brunswick, en una calle de, por la Livinsgton y la Hill (no estoy segura de si es el nombre correcto de la calle, se escucha como que dice Hell). El día de hoy el 1o de Junio, eh, mm, es un gran día, está fresco, eh, y vamos a estar aquí con doña Ale, para que nos cuente su historia. Doña Ale bienvenida y cuéntenos.

Hola qué tal Flor, mucho gusto. Muchas gracias por esta invitación. Pues aquí estamos para, para contestar las preguntas que me quieran hacer. Bueno, mi nombre es Alejandrina Montesinos. Soy de Oaxaca, mexicana. De un pueblito, de Oaxaca, eh, salí de ahí a los 14 años y me fui a, a vivir a la Ciudad de México, con unos familiares. Ahí estuve trabajando, ahí me casé. Eh, tengo 3, preciosos hijos, un varón y 2 mujeres y bueno, empiezo yo a los 19 años, que, fue que, tuve a mi, mi bebé, a mi primero hijo, varón y pues, es ahí donde siento una gran responsabilidad por su, educación, y pues empieza mi, mi lucha para, con mis hijos, para mi familia. Empiezo, ahí, pues este, trabajando, viendo, tomando lo mejor de la Ciudad de México, porque también, pues en una ciudad hay más oportunidades, de hecho, por eso es la, la migración de mi pueblo, ah, a la ciudad, ajá. Empiezo a ver que hay excelentes universidades, eh, en el momento que yo ya tengo a mi hijo, pues, empiezo a, con ese sueño, de querer un futuro mejor, para mis hijos, mejor que el mío, en todos los sentidos. Aunque soy pobre tengo muchas dificultades emocionales, porque pues sí, vengo de, de violencia doméstica, de este, pérdidas familiares muy tristes, muy grandes, este y, pero empieza mi lucha. Empieza mi lucha con esos sueños de querer un futuro mejor, tal ya no tanto para mí, porque pues ya tengo a mi, a mis hijos y quiero, ver ese futuro que yo me hubiera gustado tener, en mis hijos. Y empiezo ahí a trabajar con muchos problemas, pero empiezo a trabajar y, y pues no me rindo.

Guau eso es de una mujer fuerte.

Sí, gracias a Dios.

Sí, y cómo fue que, que tuvo la, la idea de venirse para Estados Unidos. Qué lo motivó para, para agarrar ese, eh, como ha sido, en, en, en el proceso y, dej, si no dejó a sus hijos, este, ahí en México.