Fida Ayoubi

Fida Ayoubi is the employment services and volunteer coordinator at I-RISE. She speaks passionately about the struggles and triumphs that her clients go through as refugees and asylees adapting to America.

“But every single day, the beauty– beauty of this job is you learn something new every day. Um, whether it be from the clients, whether it be from, uh, you know, a, you know, a program that we went to for training, um, something, you know, someone we met, community member that says, ‘Hey, this is what,’ you know. So that’s the beauty of this job, is– it’s a challenge every single day because it all depends on the situation. All depends on what’s going on.”
— Fida Ayoubi

ANNOTATIONS

1. Non-Traditional Family Structures, Kinship - In Lebanese culture, families tend to be close-knit, and it is customary for members of the extended family (grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc) to provide a means of support with financial resources, childrearing support, and assistance during medical emergencies. Unlike the common nuclear family found in Northwest Europe and North America, it is not uncommon for Lebanese families to live in a multigenerational household, which consists of three or more generations of parents and their families. Contrary to popular belief, in the past decade, multigenerational living has been on the rise in the United States. A 2021 study by Generations United found that multigenerational households have nearly quadrupled over the past decade, with an increase of 271% from 2011 to 2021. They estimated that 1 in 4 Americans are living in multigenerational households and among that estimate, more than half have stated that they began or continued to live together because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Some factors for living in a multigenerational household include: economic climate; a need for eldercare, childcare/child education needs; job loss/change in job status or underemployment; and healthcare costs for one or more family members.
2. Forced Migration, Forced Displacement - During the fifteen-year crisis of the civil war in Lebanon, between 600,000 and 900,000 people had to flee Lebanon in fear of violence and persecution. The United States alone received between 21,000 and 30,000 Lebanese refugees who had been forcibly displaced from their homes and had to start new lives in the U.S. According to the International Organization for Migration (IOM), forced migration (also known as forced displacement) is defined as “a migratory movement which, although the drivers can be diverse, involves force, compulsion, or coercion,” and has uprooted and displaced more than 65 million people around the world. According to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHC), the number of forcibly displaced people both within countries and across borders as a result of persecution, conflict, generalized violence, or human rights violations has nearly doubled in the last 10 years.
3. Resettlement - For over seven decades, the United States has been one of the world’s leading countries for refugee admissions under international humanitarian law. However, a growing gap has emerged between its objectives and achievements in resettling refugees. According to the UNHCR, resettlement is, “the selection and transfer of refugees from a state in which they have sought protection to a third state which has agreed to admit them—as refugees—with permanent residence status.” In 2020, an estimated 1.4 million refugees were in need of resettlement, but less than 36,000 were relocated. After the UNHCR revised its Resettlement Handbook in 2011, the refugee screening process adopted a new extensive and tedious vetting process. Potential refugees now have to go through a twenty-step process that includes three fingerprint screenings, two background checks, and three extensive interviews, first by the UN Refugee Agency, then by the State Department, and finally by the Department of Homeland Security. Unfortunately, recent anti-immigrant and anti-refugee policies enacted by the Trump administration have also impacted the wait time and process of resettlement.
4. Forced Migration, Forced Displacement - Since the start of the Syrian Civil War in 2011, an estimated 6.7 million people have been forcibly displaced from their homes in Syria. A vast majority of Syrian refugees migrated to the neighboring countries of Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon, where most of them live in urban areas and refugee camps. Unfortunately, according to UNHCR, only 1 out of 20 are fully accommodated in a refugee camp and more than a million Syrian refugees have little to no financial resources. In 2017, the Obama administration increased the refugee quota to 110,000 from 85,000 as a response to accommodate as many refugees as possible. Since 2011, more than 20,000 Syrian refugees have been resettled in the United States.
5. Promoting Education for Women and Girls - Women account for 48% of the 164 million migrant workers around the world, however, women that migrate from countries without gender equality are less likely to be given access to quality education, resulting in fewer employment and business opportunities. Additionally, women with low formal education or literacy levels experience higher rates of marginalization, vulnerability to abuse, and integration issues. A 2018 report by the UNHCR revealed that refugee girls were half as likely as their male counterparts to attain a secondary education and pointed to how social and cultural norms and conventions result in boys’ education being prioritized over that of girls. Fortunately, global human rights organizations, such as UNHCR and IOM, have taken the initiative in promoting education for refugee girls by funding schools in their hometowns and providing basic facilities and hygienic products, financial support, and safer means of transportation to school.
6. Employment Challenges for Migrants - Without the support of organizations like IRISE, migrants in the United States go through a plethora of challenges in the US labor market. Migrants that are unauthorized or have low educational attainment tend to have lower wages and higher unemployment rates. Migrant workers that have professional backgrounds often face difficulty in obtaining recognition for foreign education or credentials, frequently requiring them to obtain an occupational license in the state they live and wish to work in. This can leave workers underemployed or unemployed. On average, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, foreign-born workers are paid 16% to 11% less than their native-born counterparts. These differences in earnings are influenced by a variety of factors, including educational attainment, occupation, industry, and geographic region.

Transcript: “Um, you know, so they'll– in the beginning, we will help them create a resume. Um, we, you know, depending on education levels, ‘cause we don't get a lot of, you know, a variety of clients. So, some are– have no educational level whatsoever, so no education, no language. And then we get some that are already IT professionals or studying to be doctors or, um, engineers. So, you know, it all depends on the client, really how much you can, you know, how you work with them and which w– here you can guide them because the ones that are already coming in as professionals. Okay. How do we get your credentials or who, so that you can get your job? What do you need to do? What kind of testing do you have to do to, um– what kind of testing or what do you have to go through to get your permit here? So you can get a job in your actual profession? Um, so a lot of that also, um, you know, it’s a– it's a combined group, um, with the case managers and, um, we basically really work as a team.”

Learn More: Ann Morse and Ishanee Chanda, “Barriers to Work: Improving Access to Licensed Occupations for Immigrants with Work Authorization,” National Conference of State Legislatures, July 17, 2018.

Learn More [2]: Hamutal Bernstein and Carolyn Vilter, “Upskilling the Immigrant Workforce to Meet Employer Demand for Skilled Workers” (Urban Institute, July 2018).

Learn More [3]: Rakesh Kochhar and Jesse Bennett, “Immigrants in U.S. Experienced Higher Unemployment in the Pandemic but Have Closed the Gap,” Pew Research Center (blog), July 26, 2021.

Learn More [4]: Christine Ro, “‘Brain Waste’: The Skilled Workers Who Can’t Get Jobs,” BBC, February 3, 2022.

7. Burnout - Migrant workers are recognized to be among the most vulnerable members of society. In the labor force, they work for less pay, for longer hours, and in worse conditions than nonmigrants. Due to factors such as a fast-paced work environment, a heavy workload, long work hours, and/or feeling like you have little to no control over your work, workers may experience high levels of stress, resulting in higher outcomes of burnout. Burnout is a state of physical or emotional exhaustion resulting from work-related stress. According to Mayo Clinic, ignoring signs of burnout can lead to serious repercussions, including: excessive stress, fatigue, heart disease, or high blood pressure.

TRANCRIPT

Interview conducted by Ashley Teague

Interview conducted remotely

August 4, 2021

Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn

Annotations by Lanai McAuley

[00:00:00]

To– I’m record– Recording in progress. And, um. So, if there’s anything that you don’t wanna answer, you can just say “skip,” or if there’s something I don’t ask that you wanna say, like, feel free to, you know, uh, sort of lead the conversation whatever way you think makes sense. You know your story better than I do, obviously. Um, and then, this will be used as a, you know, as a– sent you, um, information, but it’ll be used in an archive along with stories from other folks from, um, Reformed Church of Highland Park’s Affordable Housing Corporation, clients and staff, community members telling their story. Um, and the work, you know, about the work that goes on there. So that’s sort of the big picture.

Okay.

Um, and, uh, I’m supposed to be, you know, sort of professional interviewer. They, like, make a big point to say, like, this isn’t a conversation, it’s an interview, so I’m gonna try to be, you know, not my normal goofy, uh, sarcastic self. As I–

[laughs] I have to be that way, too! 

No, you can be your– your normal, sarcastic, goofy self. But I’m supposed to be professional, so we’ll see how that goes.

Okay!

Um. And so I’m supposed to say, “Hi, this is Ashley Teague and I am recording on Zoom, August the fourth, 2021.” And, will you please tell me your name and spell it for me?

Uh, my name is Fida Ayoubi. It’s spelled F-I-D-A, F like Frank, I, D like David, A. Last name, Ayoubi. A-Y-O-U-B, like Boy, I.

Beautiful. Um, tell me, where were you born and what year?

Oh! [laughing] I feel, we’re going that detailed?

Yeah, we’re gonna start way back then! At the very beginning!

[laughing] Okay! So I was actually born in West Africa in a country called Liberia in 1969. 

And, how long did you live there? Did you move around much as a kid, or what was sort of your–  your journey?

Well, originally we are from Lebanon. So my fath– my parents had a supermarket in Liberia, so that’s why I was born in Liberia. Um, Liberia’s in West Africa for those of you who don’t know. Um, and I was there for a couple of years, and then I was sent, um, to Lebanon to be with my mom’s parents. To be raised by my mom’s parents. 

That’s great, that’s sort of the next question, which is like, who did you grow up with? Siblings, parents, aunties, uncles, what was sort of your family structure?

Oh, I’m one of six. We are ab– we are exactly the Brady Bunch, for those who know the Brady Bunch. [laughs] So, I was– three girls, three boys, so I’m the middle child of that family. But, yeah, I was raised mostly by my grandmother, my aunts, my uncles. Um, my mom and dad were away most of the time because they had business in another country! So, they wanted– they wanted us to be raised by family and we were raised by family, even when we came here. My parents were still in Africa and we were raised with uncles and grandmas and aunties here in America.

[Annotation 1]

[00:03:04]

And when you were a little kid, who were– were there any characters in your life, um– it could be family or teachers or friends, who were really formative to you or who –who you looked up to? Role models or heroes?

Not really. Um, growing up, not really, because I mean, it was basically like me and my grandmother, really, most of our lives. You know, everybody was out there doing everything, everybody was living life and me and my grandmother most of our lives, you know? So, we were very close. Um, she read my bedtime stories. She taught me what I needed to know about life and, you know, I didn’t– she– she was always a huge– so when she passed, it was a huge loss.

Mhm.

So, yeah. But really, I mean, look– look, I would say not really, like. Not until I got to, um, my college. You know? And then it was Oprah and it was, uh, you know, I’m a huge TV person, so it was Oprah and surprisingly, believe it or not, in college, a lot of my research was done on Donald Trump because, as a business man, I was a business major. I was a huge fan! And he was developing and he was growing and he had all this stuff going on and even when he went through his bank– first bankruptcy, it was a research project because I wanted to know how he survived! You know, how he was able to get these banks to give him loans and keep him going even though he was, you know, losing so much money. So, yeah! Is that sad? Oprah and Trump! [laughs]

That’s great! 

But that was– that– that– at that time is who they, who was really popular, you know? Oprah was just coming up, you know, up and coming and I really liked all that she stood for and what she was doing. Um, you know, like, I’m very familiar with, like– I’m a news junkie, so I know a lot of that goes on in the world, but at that time in college, that’s really, was out there and prominent.

Mhm. And was it your maternal grandmother or your paternal?

Yeah, maternal. Yeah, my– my paternal– my paternal grandparents were killed, um, when the civil war happened in, uh, Lebanon. So, we lived a couple of miles away from there, walking distance, really. Um, and when the civil war happened, basically, um, found out that my grandmother was killed and, um, [inaudible]. Later on, my fath– my grandfather, we basically ran away with the clothes on our backs. [overlapping, inaudible]

[overlapping] How old were you? What year?

[overlapping, inaudible] Six. What year? ’75? Right after my brother was born. So my little brother was born in ’75. And that’s when everything happened, so, seventy– ‘75, ‘76, we were traveling for survival. I was one of those chil– we were one of those families that had to go on a fishing boat to get out.

[Annotation 2]

[Editor’s Note: The Lebanese Civil War was a series of civil armed conflicts that took place from 1975 to 1990 in Lebanon, mainly between Lebanon’s Christian and Muslim populations. The conflict resulted in an estimated 120,000 fatalities and an exodus of almost one million people from Lebanon.]

[00:06:01]

And do you remember your paternal grandparents at all?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, my grand– my grandmother didn’t really need to get out much, but we would, you know, my mother always sends us home to, like, to send them, whenever she cooked or she, my father had this beautiful garden, um, in the back of our, um, home. And, you know, she would pick out fruits and vegetables and everything else and cook and we would have to walk over to grandma’s and bring all of that, so, that was really our communication with grandmother. Um, but my grandfather always came to visit us and hung out with us and, uh, [tsk]. He was really amazing, um, because as a five or six year old, um, kid, to see your grandfather climb a palm tree and pick out dates was the most fascinating thing in the world ‘cause that’s so brave! Just, you know, climb it up! No stairs, no ropes, nothing. Just climb up and bring down the dates from the tree, and it was, out– so that like, stuck out, as, like, one of the biggest memories? But it also, uh, we used to eat the food that, like, my mother is not the type to, oh, she doesn’t support picky eaters. You’re a picky eater, she– eat what she gives you. So grandpa– my grandfather would say, “Don’t worry, don’t worry. Take it, I’ll eat it for, you’ll be fine, just don’t get in trouble with her!” [laughs]

Mhm.

Yeah, so we had good memories with them even though, you know, it was only, like, maybe a guess, a year, year and a half.

So you were six years old, do you– what– do you have many memories of, um, the civil war at all? Do you have any images or memories of that from your– from being so young?

Not really? Like, I remember having to leave, having, um, my parents traveled all the time. So it was the first time, you know, they could finally–decided, “Okay, we’re gonna move back to Lebanon, we’re gonna be with our families,” you know. So we– my parents owned this, like, um, beach resort. Like, a resort on the beach. So they’re like, “Okay, we’re gonna do construction, we’re gonna build up,” you know, “build up the hotel.” My mother was an amazing cook so we had this big, uh, like, I guess, what do you call that, um– Right on the beach, um, type of, you know, tables and setting and stuff like that. People would just come from everywhere just to eat her cooking, her food. Um, so today she’s an amazing cook, but, um, you know. So we were there, [phone dings] and then the civil war happened and all I remember was, okay, um, civil war is happening, we have to– So, you know, as a young child, you really don’t know what’s going on. But I remember having, you know, finding out things were happening, it was getting scary, people were getting worried, and then it was just, that’s it, you know. Whatever we had on, clothes-wise, my mother packed up whatever she could, like, as soon as possible. We literally had maybe ten, fifteen minutes at once to get out of there.

Mhm.

Get out, yeah, to leave everything behind. Um, [tsk] and leave. Then we had this gentleman that, um, was a different religion, actually, than what we are, but he connections? So he took us, um, he was actually the mana– the foreman on the construction project and said, “Don’t worry, I will get you guys out.”

[00:09:13]

And he put us in this car, so, all– all that we could take was what could fit in the car with us. Mind you, we’re a family of five– uh, at the time, it was five of us plus him and the maid, um, the nanny. So we got in the car and we went to his house in the mountains, and then he had to get us from the mountain all the way across to where my grandmother lived on the other side. Which, if you, normal time? You could drive and be at my grandmother’s house in twenty minutes. It took us two days to get there.

Mhm.

I remember that. So I remember going and staying with my grandmother and her place was safer.  But it wasn’t gonna be as safe for that long, and, um, we had to, you know, leave. At the time when we– my mother decided, “Okay, we have to go,” my– my grandmother and my aunts and uncles said, “No, no, no, we're staying, we're staying. We don't want to lose our property. They won't let us do it, do anything. We want to stay.” So, we got on the fishing boat and we went with my mom and we ended up in, uh, Cyprus. 

Mhm hmm.

We get to Cyprus and everybody had gone away from Cyprus. And, um, [tsk] so we slept in the lobby of a hotel ‘cause there's no places, no rooms available. There was no anything. We ended up sleeping in a hut in the lobby of a hotel. And we lucked out that one of the– the gentlemen that worked on the, [stuttering] um, the front desk was from Lebanon also. And he had a room in the hotel. So, he would allow us to use his room to shower, change, things like that, which was a god-send. And then my mother went to the embassy to get us out and found my uncle who had, um, traveled to Lebanon to get his family out, to get, you know, my grandmother, my aunt, every day. So, she ran in, we didn't know what had happened. So, you know, what was going on with family. And she ran into him at the embassy with my uncle, and he had told her that, you know, he made my grandmother and my aunt and entire family get out. He made them all get out. So– and he– he had found a place, uh, um, a family in Cyprus that had, I guess, a guest house that were willing to pick– to let us stay there. So, here's twenty of us now staying in this two bedroom? Maybe, I think? I don't remember exactly, but I know it was– I remember it was small, guest house, but they were the most amazing family in the world. Like, they did everything for us. They took us out– like, they made sure they took care of the kids. They, the– the food was incredible. Like, they took us out. They made sure that we will happy. They were really, really, really a wonderful family, um, to us that, you know. [audio cuts out, silence]

[00:12:00]

You were able to do the paperwork and then go, go home, go back to Africa with my mother. So, he went, we went to Africa for my father, and then my uncle got my uncles, [audio distorts] we had two uncles here in America that were already citizens. And they sponsored my grandparents and my, my grandmother and my–my aunts and everything to come to America. But we ended up in, well, my mom, in Africa. And then later on, my uncles were like, “Hey, why are you? Just send the kids to us!” You know, my cut, my uncle had just married this lady and, [cough] from Ecuador and he says to us, “Hey, we just married! And we married, and,” you know, “we got married at the church. So, we are members of the church. Now we can put them in a group.” So, my mother wanted to send us to boarding school.

Mhm.

To get access or something, and my uncle said, “No. Why would you send them the boarding school when they have a whole family that can take care of them? Send them to us and we will take care of them.” So my uncle, um, we– we went and stayed with my uncle for about a year, about a year. Yeah. About a year until his wife had a– had a baby. And then we had to move to my grandmother's house. 

Mhm.

My grandpa was always in my life.

And so how old were you when you– well, let me backup. So, you mentioned the word “religion” earlier. You said, “Oh, they were of a different religion.” Was religion and spirituality a part of your upbringing? And can you tell me about that?

My parents weren't really religious, but we all, you know, we always knew we were Muslim. You know? So, we always knew we were Muslim, but my parents were really weren't religious. So, we didn't, like, we didn't– we weren't like practicing religion, like practicing Muslims?

Mhm.

Um, but you know, you know, what religion you are growing up. But, um, so it really– but so he married. So, when we came and we went to her house, you know, the religion was never an issue. ‘Cause that's never been an issue in our family. Um, ‘cause we have multiple religions in our family. Um, [tsk] but, um, the– the– the– because we were going to Catholic school, so I went to Catholic school was, you know, normal! Didn't matter to me. And then I go to church, you know, be clear, you go to Catholic school, you go to church! [laughs] And I got up and they said, “Get up and get the communion.” I got up with everybody else. You know, I'm– I'm seven! I don't understand what any of this stuff is. I've never been, you know, not with– we’ve never learned any of it! So, um, I get up and I do the host and it was my first time taking the host. And, it's not tasty in any way whatsoever, by the way! [laughs] Um, I sat back down and went through the whole ritual. I still know the Our Fathers and Hail Mary, by the way, you don't go to– you don't go to Catholic school that long and not learn the prayers! I don't read the Bible. Um, but then– then the teacher approached me and she goes, “You can't have communion.” I said, “Why?” She goes, “You're not Catholic, and you have not been baptized! You have not gone through confirmation. You can't!” So I said, “So what am I supposed to do?” She goes, “No, you just sit on the left on the corner and let everybody pass. And from now on you just be the first one and just get out and let everybody pass.” “Okay!” [laughs]

[00:15:09]

Did you feel any kind of way about that? Did you feel like, as a kid, it just was what it was or did you feel?

It was like, it was all, you know, yeah, it was what it was. It's, like, not my religion, I'm not supposed to take it. I mean, I felt weird only because everybody else was getting up, and how would, you know, people look at me and I'd be treated differently, but they really didn't. Um, you know, everybody just, again, we were kids, so they just expected that she doesn't get communion and we just kept moving on!

Did you feel a sense of community there or did you feel– did it– did you feel included? Did you feel, you know, having gone through this experience as such a young child, did you feel, um, different from other people there? 

No, no, not really. ‘Cause, like I said, we weren't religious, so, you know, studying that early, you know, going to religious class, going to that, nobody made a big deal out of it. It was, you know, this is where we were. It was part of school and that was it.

So you were about seven years old then. And how long did you live with your uncle? Um, did you live there until you went to college or?

Oh no, no, no. So, we lived with my uncle in Jersey City just one year. And then he decided with his family that they wanted to move to Florida. To the Florida. So, when he wanted to move to Florida, we went to stay with my grandmother.

Okay. So that was, you were eight years old when you made that move. I see. 

Yeah. About eight, nine. Yeah. And we stayed– we stayed with my grandmother until, um, we stayed for like, I guess I want to say two, three years? Two or three years. And then my sister started acting out and getting into trouble and my– my grandma didn't want that. Um, [tsk] she didn't want that responsibility. So, we went to– with my other uncle, but between him and my– my– my aunt and I left the whole family where, in a way. We had cousins and my grandmother and my aunt and all, all my uncles and moved into this little two bedroom with my uncle and my sister. I was miserable. I was miserable! So, I hated it. So, I said, “Well, if this is the only choice I have, I'm going back home to my parents. I don't want to be here anymore.” So, I went to Africa and I told my parents, “I'm not leaving until one of you comes and gives us a home.” And, um, so a year later, well they didn't–we didn't have the proper paperwork. So, I got stuck in Africa. [laughs] I– I only went for a month just to bring them back and come, but I didn't have the proper paperwork. So I had got stuck there for a year and they had to provide tutors for me so, um, I wouldn't lose any part of my education while I was there. Amazing tutors. Um, one lady from the Peace Corps that was there in Africa, from people for the Peace Corps from California, so amazing. And, but when she had to leave, my parents were able to get a professor who taught at the college, um, there to keep up our– and he was much better because he wrote books and he had mountains of history books and science books. Um, and he kept us up. 

[00:18:09]

So, when I came back to America with my mom and my brothers and sisters, and we were all in one apartment, um, and we had gained an additional brother at the time. [laughs] Um, it– it was bet– it was much better, you know, but I didn't miss any part of school because we had, you know, they tested me and I passed all the stuff and just went right into seventh grade.

Um, and then tell me about college, going to college and what you studied. And, um, you know, obviously part of the work that you do now is influenced by your childhood experiences. Like, you are able to relate to your clients in that way, but when did you know what you wanted to do with your life? Did you know before going to college? Tell me about that.

Well, not really. Um, my mother– my mother always traveled. So, majority of the time, like from when I was 13, 13 and up, I was helped with my– my– my– it was my father and I, um, taking care of the kids while my mother traveled back. So, you know, it was studying, getting my homework, getting my projects, taking care of kids, um, doing all of that. And then, you know, when she would come, I would be able to concentrate on school. Um, but still I was because when you– when your parents, like, are not from this country and you are more educated, you basically, you're responsible to help with a lot of different things. So, a lot of, like, paperwork, a lot of legalities, a lot of different things I was still responsible for. Um, you know, helping the kids with homework, helping the things with, you know. All that stuff, I was still responsible for, even though both my parents were home. So, really when I got to college, I chose what my parents had, you know, told me to choose. Um, because my parents had always been business and they said, “Hey.” I was like, “Okay, business management and marketing.” ‘Cause everything I wanted, my mother would say, “No, this isn't great. No, this isn't good. This is like,” she would put [inaudible] and when I said “Business?” “Business?” She said, “Okay. Yep. Go into business. ‘Cause that's all we do is business, entire family's business.” Um, and then I did. So, I did a double major in business management and marketing.

And where was that? Where'd you do your?

At Saint Peter's College.

Okay. What languages did you speak at home? Did your parents speak English or did you have to be trained?

Oh, yeah! Yeah, yeah. You know, my– I mean I translated some stuff, but like the, like I said, like the legal, illegal stuff– but my father was pretty– my parents were both educated and they both, um, spoke English. They both could handle a lot of the different things, but sometimes there– there was stuff that I still needed to happen, even with the kids, you know? Um. Um, they were more used to me than her! [laughs] So, um, but, um, yeah, so I did that and, um, but they were, no, my parents, you know, spoke English. They're very, you know, they're okay. What was the question? I'm sorry.

How many languages do you speak or did?

[00:21:02]

I only speak, I mean, fluently? I speak English and Arabic, um, but I studied French in school because I want to study Spanish. And my mother said, “No, take French, cause I can help you.” But she didn't help because she was never really around. But I did four years of French! [laughs] And now, um, I learned some Spanish working with a contractor of mine that, I mean, you can't grow up in this country without learning some Spanish. So, um, and then– then I had a contractor that I loved who spoke no English, but this was an amazing contractor. So, we learned. I said, “I'm gonna to teach you English.” He taught me more Spanish than I taught him English! So, yeah. So, a little bit of those two, but major– really it's just English and Arabic.

And so how did you get started working at the Reformed Church of Highland Park’s Affordable Housing Corporation/IRISE?

Um, I started– I started, um, I guess five, like, when they, at their inception, about five years ago, we were invited. I belong to a group with the mosque, um, a walking group. And, um, you know, she knew I was volunteering because I was going through a lot of personal stuff. And I said to them– I said to them, “I hate staying home. If there's any volunteer opportunities, please let me know.” So, um, this walking group, um, they had just also been connected, been contacted by– the mosque was contacted by Seth and he said, “Hey, we're starting this central. We're bringing a lot of Syrians in, there’s gonna be Muslims. We need some, you know, community support.” And the mosque said, “Okay,” you know, “we'll be there.” And, um, so the lady who basically, um, like, organizes the walking group? Um, invited the– what, you know, all the girls that were in this walking group and said, “Hey,” you know, “the Syrians, it’s one of– it’s like the Syrian war just started happening, their civil war.” And, um, she ended up, you know, “A lot of the Syrians are here, come”, you know, “the– the church is, having a chart– a luncheon to introduce you to the refugees and come meet the refugees and let's go see what we,” you know, “how we can help.” I was like, “Okay, let's go!” So, I went there and I– the first thing they said is like, “Wait, so you have Syrians, you have translators.” They said, “No, we're desperate!” So I said, “I can translate!” And so I came in to translate, I started doing rides. I started doing, you know, whatever was needed to help the families. And I just loved what was going on, and for three– the next three years, just wherever I saw a need, I help– try to help fill it as far as volunteer-wise. And when, um, one day Pastor Seth says in a meeting, and one of our, you know, the– the– the monthly meetings, the community meetings, he says, “Well, this, you guys are gonna laugh about this.” And my kids said, um, “This is not going to happen, but I am looking for a volunteer– volunteer coordinator.” And I was always so frustrated because they didn't really utilize the– the volunteers enough? And I wanted to work with that in that– in that to help make that better. 

[Annotation 4]

[Editor’s Note: The Syrian Civil War is an ongoing civil war in Syria fought between the Syrian Arab Republic led by Syrian president Bashar al-Assad and various domestic and foreign forces that oppose both the Syrian government and each other. The war has resulted in over six million people being forcibly displaced and is often described as one of the largest refugee crises in history.]

[00:24:03]

And I said, “I'll do it!” And he was like, “Oh my God! Everybody wanted you to be– this is what everybody was hoping you would volunteer them.” And within a month he was like, “You're doing such a great job. We want to hire you.” So, I got hired, basically really like eight hours, um, like a week, you know, like eight hours a week. And then– then he came in and he goes, “Well, would you want to help us with employment?” And I said, “Sure!” And that added more hours to my time. And then when the whole pandemic happened and the shutdown happened and Anna and I were working so well together, she goes, “Fida, can I,” you know, “can we hire you and add more hours?” I was like, “Sure, I'm already here! I'm already working and doing all of it anyway, so please pay me!” [laughs] Um, and then they added more hours. And so– so it was still part-time– part-time and then this past June, I became completely full-time. 

Hmm. And, what– what's your– your job title now?

[laughs] So, my job is volunteer coordinator and employment services.

And tell me about employment services.

Hold on– hold on one quick, second. ‘Cause my husband– because you're going to hear his, um, work, hold on. [long pause]

[00:25:44]

No problem. Um, so you were telling me about the, um, your role as the, um, employment

and implement services.

So, I do employment services and I do, um, so basically support Ana and Maya in whatever they need to do, but my actually official title is employment services and, um, and volunteer coordinator, but I also do, um, donations. I also, um, do, um, what else? There's so much. The donations is huge. So, helping to set up the apartments, um, helping to make sure, um, you know, we have people to set up, um, you know, pre-pack everything before the family arrives. Um, so, you know, volunteer coordination is, it really involves a lot of it, so, you know, finding someone to help pick up the clients from the airport, finding the translators, getting, you know, volunteers to help, um, you know, take people to rides. We're now sending up, uh, creating a computer lab where, um, you know, people that don't really know how to use the computers can come in or need to use a computer for whatever reason. They don't have internet or they don't have, um, making come in and we can, um, um, help them, show them, how to use it, how to apply for jobs, how to fill out paperwork, kind of, you know, whatever they need to do. So now we're coordinating those volunteers for that? Do you wanna volunteer? [laughs] 

[00:27:12]

Um, and it– reputation that, like, any store you walk into or anywhere where it’s, “Hey, are you hiring here?” It looks like you're! So, when you're doing employment services, what does that mean? Like, what is your– how– how far does your responsibility extend? I know, or I've heard, tell me if this is true, that a big part of how the government measures, um, a refugee or asylee’s success has to do with them being employed and making a living, like, to what extent are you responsible for that? Is it just about resources forward or do you really see it all the way through, like, to make sure everyone has employment? Does that make sense? The question.

So that is part of the job. So, yes. So, what–when– when we get a client that comes in, so maybe a family comes in and, you know, once all the paperwork has been done on my side, within two weeks of their arrival, employment services team has to sit with them and do an intake. So, we basically take, you know, do an interview with them, see what their goals are, like, what their immediate goals are for the first, like, three to six months. What their, um, goals are for, like, the next year to three years. And then whether like, you know, future goals are, like, would they like to go to college? Would they like to, you know, own the house with, you know, what their future– future goals is. And we basically try to create a plan with them to help them achieve these goals. Um, you know, so they'll– in the beginning, we will help them create a resume. Um, we, you know, depending on education levels, ‘cause we don't get a lot of, you know, a variety of clients. So, some are– have no educational level whatsoever, so no education, no language. And then we get some that are already IT professionals or studying to be doctors or, um, engineers. So, you know, it all depends on the client, really how much you can, you know, how you work with them and which w– here you can guide them because the ones that are already coming in as professionals. Okay. How do we get your credentials or who, so that you can get your job? What do you need to do? What kind of testing do you have to do to, um– what kind of testing or what do you have to go through to get your permit here? So you can get a job in your actual profession? Um, so a lot of that also, um, you know, it’s a– it's a combined group, um, with the case managers and, um, we basically really work as a team. So you have your strengths, everyone uses their strengths to help the clients in some way, but we help them get jobs. Um, you know, cause most of them come in with some kind of money, but all that money, you know, runs out within, you know, like three– like three months, they basically should have a job that can pay rent. Um, at least rent. And then, you know, we move them forward as their educational levels, as their English improves, as their skills improve. Then we can move them into something that pays a little bit better. So ,we stay with them. I mean, we were basically as a– as an organization responsible for them for the first five years here. And I think it– it increased because of COVID. Um, I don't really remember how much, but we, you know, we support, we support them as long as they're with us, you know, locally. 

[Annotation 6]

[00:30:22]

Mm. And, um, can you share any, um, uh. Two questions, whichever one you want to answer first. Um, one is, um, uh, success stories, like, moments. You don't have to share any names, but moments that where you personally were like, wow, that, like, “Here's a huge moment in someone's life. Here's a huge success. Here's something that I know, like, I personally contributed to someone's well being,” so success. Or, on the other hand, frustrations. And they might be like system frust– or like things that really challenge you in your job that are really, um, uh, you know, obstacles to doing–doing your work well.

I mean, as with any employer, employee time is always an issue ‘cause it's really never enough time to do all the things that you want to do for the clients or in a job or things like that. So, that's like the biggest challenge, majority of the time, is time. It's–it's– it's time. But also, um, like I'm learning this job as we go along. And, so we go through a lot of trainings as well, um, to learn how to better serve the clients. Uh, you know, none of us were, like, you know, I know me personally, I'm not– this was not, you know, what I studied. Um, so basically taking the trainings, learning, um, from different people, uh. Working with the clients, yes, we make mistakes. Absolutely. You know, we're human, but we learned, and we've learned a lot from the clients because, um, you know, now some of them have, um, like, U.S. highs, people that have been here that know of programs we have never heard of, um, that can better help them in a better system.

And especially in the beginning, I remember at the beginning, you know, we– when we first started, nobody really knew of all the different resources that could be used. The Dell, or the refugees were eligible for that we could provide. And the ref– the refugees would come in and say, “Hey, no, no, we can do this!” Like. “No, no, no, you have to do this! No, no, no. We found out that this is what you have to do.” And they basically, in the beginning, taught us, brought us resources, um, worked with us. And, um, you know, so we learned a lot from that. Um, in the beginning. And then now, you know, we can provide the resources. But every single day, the beauty–beauty of this job is you learn something new every day. Um, whether it be from the clients, whether it be from, uh, you know, a, you know, a program that we went to for training, um, something, you know, someone we met, community member that says, “Hey, this is what,” you know. So that's the beauty of this job is– it’s a challenge every single day because it all depends on the situation. All depends on what's going on. Successes? Absolutely. There's so many, um, successes with the clients like, each one of them has, um, you know, a success story. Like, the ones that, like, really stand out are the ones that, like, you had a family that came here, um, from Africa and they basically came with no education whatsoever. So, no literacy whatsoever. And to see them go through the process and then know, learn how to speak English, learn how to read and write, learn how to communicate good jobs, be able to support their families, have, um, your daughter graduate from college. 

[00:33:42]

Um, have the– the husband say, “You know what? I have,” you know, “a community in another state that it will even be able to support us to be even better, like, to move into like our next goal and we want to move.” And he just, this person who didn't know a couple of years ago, any language, anything was able to move out to that other state, get housing for his family, set up the apartment, get everything ready, and then tell his wife, “Okay, I'm ready. Now you can move!” And come over and move them. And when she gets– she gets there, I said to her, I said, “Did you have to do anything?” She goes, “No, I just moved in!” And I went, and everything was so beautiful! You know, that– that kind of a success story, to get someone, um, to get gentlemen that again, um, came and literally grew up their entire life in a refugee camp. So had never been out. To come here, and didn’t know, again, language, and we're not really as educated, again. They went, they went through the process, they learned, they were able to get jobs. They were able to take buses and trains and support themselves and get licenses. And, you know, basically, one of them got married. Um, those are beautiful success stories! Um, so, like, even with the pandemic, um, they– they– we were worried about how to give them the information– they were already aware of all the guidelines of everything that they need to do. They really, like, stayed home. They followed every single thing. If they went to work and it wasn't a safe situation, they said, “Hey, it's not a safe situation. We cannot be there for our families.” They locked themselves in. Um, they did everything that they needed to do, um, supported each other. Um, really incredible. So, like their– their– their tenacity, their– their survival skills are in– Like, you just watch what they do every single day. And it's amazing, you know? So, you learn, like, no matter what we go through here, it's not even a quarter of what they've already been through.

[00:35:50]

Mhm.

To get here. Like, so I was in one of the trainings and I said to them, “This is,” um, to the trainer. I said, “But how do we do this,” you know, “with them?” You know, “When they're coming here and they're not educated, they don't know the skills they don't know.” Um. And he said to me, he goes, “Let me ask you something. Do you know how hard it is for them– for them to have gotten themselves here?” He goes, “What you don't understand is how resourceful these clients and refugees are. Because they, without of the–  any of the, like, things that they needed, they were able to figure out how to go through all the process. Get themselves through the United Nations, help themselves fill out the paperwork, how to get to go through all the different processes to get themselves here. So, you've got to give them credit for all that, and remember that in your mind, if they were able to do all of that and they can do it, anything they want here as well, if they put their mind to it, and this is what they want to do.” So, um, it was, like, very eye opening to me, you know, like to think of it in that sense. ‘Cause you just think of it like, okay, well, you know, you're not educated. You don't know the language, you don't know this. How are you? And they do it! Like, I'll give it– you want a, um, success story? Gentlemen came here. Um, maybe, I want to say a year and a half ago. No English. Really, really, really, really worked hard. Really worked hard, learned English to a point where he can have a conversation. And I just sent him out the other day to be a translator for other families that were coming. And then, he pitched an aspect. So, he was doing three jobs because he wants to support his families. I said to him, I said, “You're going to burn out.” “No, no, no, Fida, I have to do this.” Um. “I have to get a job. I have to work. I have to support.” And I said, “You're going to burn out. You need to be careful.” Well, he– It took him longer than I thought it would. So, but it took him, I guess. I– I– I can't remember it was three or six months, but I think it was six months to burn out, which is incredible for three jobs. Like, so you basically worked seven days, um, over, like, fifteen hour days. Like, no, over twenty hours a day, of– of different– different jobs he was doing. And once he burnt out, he said to me, “Now I know what you were talking about and I will!” [laughs] But he's still, um. So, because of the shutdown, the DMV says to everybody, um, “If you take the test in English and you fail three times and we don't offer the test in your language, we will provide a translator.” Well, because of the shutdown, that was not, um, ‘cause of the pandemic. Um, COVID-19 shutdown, since this is going on video for a while, we'll have to be specific. [laughs] Um, there was no translators available in– he really wanted his life. So, this gentleman took his test and he kept taking it in English. Um, the first time he passed it, thirty, correct, thirty-five! I went, “Okay. You're passing it next time! Perfect!” Well, he got in his head and the next time he got ten right. And each time he would just get into his head and get so nervous and everything else, and he would do not great.

[Annotation 3]

[Annotation 7]

[00:39:03]

After, and then he paid somebody to help them. He got every single video, every single thing to help. He knew all the material. And he just could not focus enough to get out of his head in time to be able to pass because he knew that information. And you knew it– the English, you know. So, he took the test eight times and he paid somebody to come to translate for him. Even though the guy told him, “I am DMV approved,” he gets to DMV. DMV says, “No, he’s not approved, he cannot come in.” Um, “we're not allowing translators to come in because of COVID.” Um. [computer dings] He went in there and took the test and passed! In English! In English. And then, okay. Now it was like, he barely got his license. Go, okay. Barely, like, passed. “Okay. I need to get my license now. Okay. Who's your driver? Who's this?” He just really focused and he just, he just started driving his car the other day that, you know? He got himself a car. I–I offered him a donated card that we, you know, we get that cars donated to, for the families. And we give them to–we give a car to a family when they get their license. And he said, “No, this is too small for my family. I don't like this size and–” Resourceful, reached out to another community mosque and said, “Hey, I want a car.” They got him a mosque within, by the time that the– the weekend had finished, he'd already gotten himself a car, got an insurance, registered the car. It was at a mechanic shop. So, this is, like, these kind of things, like, “Wow! oh my God, you did all of this.” And without anybody’s support or help, he figured it out. He asked the questions, he reaches out. He used every kind of resource to help get himself there. 

Grit and resilience.

Mhm hmm!

Eight times. Eight times! I mean, if he'd had to take it ten times, he would have taken ten times.

He would have! He would have. And now his sister, uh, like was, as he was– I was– as his success was happening, his sister was seeing what was going on. And she didn’t– when she was hesitant to do the classes, because, of course you don't, some of these countries do not promote literacy for the women, where the men will be educated and the men will go out and work. They don't promote literacy for the women. Um, she wasn't really, like, as motivated to learn. So, as she saw his successes, as she saw what was going on, she said, “Oh, you know what? Let me, I need to start learning. I need to start doing.” We got her a job for one day a week. And she started learning and she saw what English was, we would do how much better her life would be. And that she could actually in a work and she could actually have money. And we opened up a bank account and she was so excited to be able to have all of that for herself! It just motivated her now that she spends all the classes he has on classes, because now she wants to learn. And now she wants to take her license because she wants to drive as well. 

[Annotation 5]

Wow.

[00:41:58]

Yeah, it's incredible! It's–every single day, to see– to see the– to see the clients doing it. I just had one lady who wouldn't even put on the computer come to me this week and say, “Hey, um, I applied for a job and, but I don't know what they want. What's the next step is. They sent me this email.” And I said, “Come on, let's read it. What is it?” And we're going to an interview for her tomorrow for another job! And so–so she's becoming independent.

Mhm hmm.

And that's like the whole thing, is like, we'll support you! But we also want you to become independent, to be able to take care of yourself, be able to, um, you know, to–to live your life in the way you want and– and move up and promote yourself and learn. And, you know, so every day we try to get more resources, um, through whether it be the state or the schools with our, um, companies to help them better their lives. Like, if so– if they don't have any career skills. Um, okay. How, where– where would you like to go? What–what kind of job would you like to do? Let's see if we can get you certified in that job so that you can move on to a better position and get a better job and earn more money and be able to get your own, you know, a better apartment for your family. So, you know, it's always a– it's, uh, it's every single day.

Wow. Um, I'm seeing it to noon, and I know you had to go at noon, but is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to say before you have to jump off? 

Um, not really. ‘Cause I really didn't think about, like, me, like, saying anything. I mean, if you say to me, like, “What is,” like, “what are you looking to get, like, for people to learn out of this interview?” I can better answer your question. 

I think it's just about, like, really understanding the personal side of this work, and who works there, and why they work there, and where we come from when we all gathered together in this space, that is, like, IRISE. Like who, you know? So, I think everything you've shared has been really, exactly what we're, you know, what they're looking for.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, mostly everybody that is working has case work experience. So, they originally studied to be caseworkers or, you know, they went to the seminary because they wanted this kind of work from the cemetery. The cemetery–the seminary. [laughs] Um, from the seminary. So, this is really, you know, they– they know that this is God's work. They wanted to help. They want it to work with people. But the biggest thing that I've loved is, we are teaching the world. We are teaching more people, reaching out to more people and– and really, um, teaching them about refugees and refugee crisis. And more people are interested in refugees. And if I, you know, nothing, you don't get anything out of this interview but the fact that, um, this– the world right now is full of refugees that had nothing to do with where they are. It was just politics and, um, but got them to where they are and they are struggling and trying to survive just like every single person, um, you know, in this world and all they want, they would love, love, love to be back home, um, you know, in their own family. But you know, when they get to, you know, whether it be USA or Europe or whatever, they're just so happy to be in a safe place where they can now become, you know, take care of their families and have a secure place for their families. Because, you know, when you lose your home, you lose your security, you lose your sense of belonging was your community. And it's not h– it's not easy to come to another country and have no family, nobody to be dependent on, people. And then have people hating you because they don't really understand your struggle. You know, they– they're listening to media or some bias or they don’t know, other ignorant, um, you know, uh, posted on the radio or TV or whatever, you know, saying what's going on. Um. Talk to a refugee. Understand, do your own research. Um, refugees are the most amazing people and they want to work. They want to support their families, just like every single person. Yeah.

That's beautiful. I think that's a great note to end it on. I’m gonna stop–

[00:46:18]