Anonymous charts her life beginning with growing up in India, studying in Pune, where she received her MBA, the story of her marriage, and what has happened since moving to the US. She worked at a prominent newspaper in advertising and marketing, worked in HR, and has also experienced being unhoused.
“It is my life journey and my survival story just like everybody has their own survival stories. ”
ANNOTATIONS
Learn More [2]: Lisa Wong Macabasco, “Why Taking Gender Out Of The Equation Is So Difficult,” Forbes India, October 27, 2022.
Learn More [3]: “‘Beti Bachao’ Mission: Pune Doctor Delivers Baby Girls for Free at His Hospital,” The Indian Express, November 6, 2022.
Learn More [4]: “Which Countries Were First To Elect Women Leaders?,” WorldAtlas, December 28, 2020.
Learn More [2]: Dr. Prashant Kumar Choudhary, “Income Inequality in India,” The Geopolitics, July 12, 2022.
Learn More [3]: Arundhati Roy, “India’s Shame,” Prospect Magazine, November 13, 2014.
Learn More [4]: Alexander Brown and Jay Elwes, “How Does India’s Caste System Work?,” Prospect Magazine, November 13, 2014.
Learn More [5]: Sumit Sarkar, “A Legal Basis for Communalism? Law and the Creation of Religious Domains,” Text, Scroll.in (November 10, 2014).
Learn More: Hetal Vyas, “Astrology Is a Science: Bombay HC,” The Times of India, February 3, 2011.
Learn More [2]: Nagesh Rajopadhye, “When Put to the Test, the Predictive Powers of Indian Astrology Simply Don’t Hold up,” The Skeptic (blog), June 18, 2021.
Learn More [3]: Julie McCarthy, “In India, Science And Astrology Comfortably Coexist,” NPR, September 25, 2014.
Learn More [4]: Alistair Scrutton, “On Astrologers’ Nod, Weddings Brighten New Delhi,” Reuters, November 22, 2007.
Learn More [5]: Emma Taggart, “Mystical History of Astrology: From Ancient Zodiac Maps to Modern Horoscopes,” My Modern Met, April 30, 2021.
Learn More: Isabel McDevitt, “Homeless, but Able and Willing to Work,” Manhattan Institute (blog), September 29, 2022.
Learn More [3]: “New Jersey Homeless Shelters,” Homeless Shelters Directory, accessed April 19, 2023.
Learn More [4]: “Rutgers University Behavioral Health Care,” Rutgers University, accessed April 19, 2023.
Learn More [2]: Charles Gasparino, “JP Morgan Chase Launches Major Round of Layoffs,” CNBC, May 23, 2005.
Learn More [3]: Elinor Comlay and Jonathan Stempel, “JPMorgan May Cut 14,000 Jobs,” Reuters, February 26, 2009, sec. Business News.
Learn More [4]: “After the Merger: Who Stays, Who Goes?,” Bank Info Security, October 17, 2008.
Learn More [5]: Jaimie Ding, “Silicon Valley Bank’s Collapse Sparks Mad Scramble and Fears of Wider Chaos,” Los Angeles Times, March 10, 2023.
Learn More: Andie Kramer, “Mandated Quotas Won’t End Inequalities In Business Leadership,” Forbes, June 23, 2022.
Learn More [2]: Julie Levinson Werner, “Workplace Diversity—Getting It Right With Goals, Not Quotas,” Bloomberg Law, November 10, 2020.
Learn More [4]: Dina Gerdeman, “Minorities Who ‘Whiten’ Job Resumes Get More Interviews,” HBS Working Knowledge, May 17, 2017.
Learn More [2]: “Pregnancy Rights in the Workplace: Know Your Rights,” National Partnership for Women & Families, October 2018.
Learn More [3]: Barbara Russo, “Pregnant Workers Fairness Act: What You Need to Know – New York Family,” New York Family, February 15, 2023.
Learn More [4]: “What You Should Know About the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act,” U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, accessed April 19, 2023.
TRANSCRIPT 1
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Edison, New Jersey
May 26, 2022
Transcriptions by Katie Scrivani
Annotations by Lucy Gilch
[00:00:00]
Today is Thursday, May 26th, and is 1:19 p.m. This is Dan Swern. I'm here at Amandla Crossing Apartment 128, and I'm here with–
[Redacted]
So [Redacted], thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. And whenever you're ready, you can start from the beginning.
Thank you, Dan, for considering me to participate in documenting oral history. I'm honored to be part of your project. Before we begin, let me make it clear that anything and everything I share is not intended to point fingers or blame anyone. I will share my life story as what and how I experienced in life through my five senses. And I haven't reached out to anyone in my contacts who shared this history with me asking them for their permission, so I will not use their names. So, most of the time I will be either meet using fake names or just order for them to with their gender, genders and there will be many times that I will be using respective relationships, to make it obvious who the person is in context. Again, no harm is intended in any way to anybody because it is my life journey and my survival story just like everybody has their own survival stories. So, this is, I will begin with the first four years of my memory, like, to 1980 to 1984. So, um, [pause] I don't have the exact timeline of what happened first, but I will share it as it comes to me. Um, I remember, um, we were all friends and tagged along with many different activities. We were playing together, and there was no adult watching us. We were in somebody's backyard and the teenager kids were trying to climb a guava tree to reach to the guavas on the tree. And we, um, we toddlers were shadowing the teenagers in the– in the complex. And we followed suit. Just as the teenagers climbed the guava tree, a bunch of toddlers joined them and climbed up the tree because we too wanted to eat the guavas. So, it was me and a couple of others, a couple of other girls and same-age boys. So maybe some seven to nine people of different age groups on the same guava tree when the owner of the property and the owner of the tree came yelling at us that we will break the tree and we will all fall down because it was just too much of a weight on the tree. So that was one of the, that was one of the stories, the memories I have. Then I remember, um, my dad came home from work, and I ran towards him away from my dad– away from my mom– and he picked me up and he hugged me and kissed me. And I kissed him back on his forehead. So that– that happened many times when I was young. Me and my mom went walking with our metal kettle to the neighborhood cattle farm to buy evening batch of cow’s milk. Because in those days, many families didn't have refrigerators in the house. So, the, the normal, the normal, um, way of life, was you go and buy a fresh batch of morning batch of milk in, and then you go back again in the evening to buy a fresh batch of evening batch of milk from the nearby cow farm. And it was a routine for stay-at-home moms to make fresh food or bring fresh veggies and groceries twice a day. Like, I remembered, there was a grocer, there was a grocer who would bring groceries like green leafy vegetables, basically green vegetables on a cart, four-wheel cart, and he would just walk from one– a hawker, basically– bringing fresh fruit, fresh fruits, and fresh veggies, twice a day and people would buy fresh, women would buy fresh veggies twice a day and then cook fresh veggies twice a day. So, that was very common.
[00:05:15]
I would– many times I remember walking with my mom to a post office because, in those times, post offices in India also did the job of a bank. That there was not a bank, the post office acted as a bank. So going to the bank, but they did for many different reasons, and my– I think my mom was also some kind– was also some kind of agent with the post office where she would open up accounts for people and accept their deposits. So, she would go to people's homes, collect the cash from them and then deposit it into the post office. The other memories, I lived in a townhome—what we call in India, we call it a row house—with my mom and dad. It was owned by my grandfather and it was a joint family, meaning, children live with their fathers, sons live with their parents, and then the daughter-in-law’s come and join them. It's a very common thing. So, every son stays back there with his father, and upon wedding then the daughter-in-law joins the family. So– so we lived with our grandfather, my elder uncle, my dad's elder brother, his wife, and his son, me, my mom and my dad, and grandfather. It was a family of seven. My grandfather put up his day bed in the living room on the first floor, and we had two bedrooms upstairs, which we had, we had split between two families. I wasn't– I am two years younger to my elder cousin, so he was like a role model. And for me it– there was no difference between being a boy or between being a girl at that age, I couldn't figure it out, so I would shadow him. I would follow him, everything that he did. So he climbed up on the daybed and jumped down, I would try to do the same. If he tried to jump from the staircase, I would try to follow him, because it– if it’s okay for him to do, it was okay for me to do. Many times, I was pulled away from him, telling me, “You are a girl, you can't do this.” Many times, they didn't bother, like, they ignored what I was doing. So, it will depend on what they were doing and what they were thinking at that time. If they were preoccupied by their own stuff, then they didn't bother what I was doing. But if they were sitting watching us, they would always pull both of us away from each other saying, “You cannot do the same thing that he is doing.”
[00:08:06]
Um, what else? Two years later, my younger brother was born. I mean, not my brother, his brother. My younger cousin was born in the same house. The three of us were like, I was the elder’s tail, and the younger was my tail. So, what I did, he would follow, and what the elder wanted, I followed. So, I felt elevated. I felt like I was the leader, because I have somebody else following me, and I'm not the youngest in the house. Now, there is somebody younger than me. So, I now– I feel my elder brother would feel annoyed because I followed him everywhere, but when my younger brother followed me, I felt happy that I have somebody following me. We had different emotions for the same situation, but I don't know why, but I was like, I would happily let him follow me and imitate me and that brought us to a situation where he was probably a year old, or maybe half, and he had started walking, and he had started climbing the stairs on his own, and I remember he was reading his mom's slip floaters, the house floaters, and he was climbing up the stairs, my dad and my grandpa were talking in the living room. The staircase was in the living room that went up to the second floor and he came tumbling down. And I remember I was watching, I was there myself, and all we saw him, tears rolling down his eyes, and blood gushing out his mouth, but he wouldn't open them up. So, my dad yelled out and ran behind him, picked him up, too, yelled for the women to bring a glass of water and a spoonful of sugar. They brought it and nobody knew what was happening, why he wouldn't open his mouth. He was less than two years old. And when he took his time to open his mouth, the first thing happened was a piece of his tongue, the tip of his tongue, fell in my dad's palm. Without waiting for his dad, without waiting for my uncle to arrive, my dad rushed him to the ER before anybody at home figured out what had happened. My dad didn't even bother to wait and tell why he is take– being taken to the hospital, he just took him to the hospital. The operation was done, they stitched the entire tongue back. It took him almost more than fifteen years to talk straight, because he had a heavy tongue. People would mark him when he was in school because they didn't know what had happened to him– why he says a particular word like this, but now he's completely fine. I mean as if he never had any problem. But he still has the stitch marks on the entire tongue. But, so, I watched that and I recalled an incident with myself, which I'll tell you a little later, and I was like, “If dad was home, he probably would have taken me to the hospital, too, but he wasn't home.” So, I'll come to that instance later. So, we were one of the houses that had refrigerator and television are at home, which means we were a well-off family– middle-higher-class or middle-middle-class family, where we could afford to pay an extra electricity bill and afford to buy that. The television was, my dad has another youngest brother who was learning to become an electronic– not an engineer, but he was– he was studying to do the his ITI in electronics, and as part of project, he had to do the assembly of a television set, which he had assembled, and he had gifted it to my grandfather, which was– he in Mumbai studying, but he sent the television to Pune where we lived. The only assembly mistake, probably, they say that he made was he did not, not put a switch on and switch off button. So, the only way to switch it on and switch and off had to– you had to pay, you had to pat the TV and it's the shuts it off and you pat the TV, and it shuts it on. So, people would actually make fun of him, like, “Who's going to give you a job when you finish your education? You cannot even think of the basic thing when you're putting a TV together.” So that was some fun memories.
[00:13:19]
Me with the refrigerator, the limitation for me was if anything that was kept in the refrigerator I couldn't eat, I would throw up. So, if my mom bought the milk at six o’clock in the morning, she wanted to have– she gave me the milk and left the rest of the milk in the fridge and gave me another batch of milk at maybe ten o’clock. I would throw up. I cannot, I couldn't digest that milk. And it took a really long time to figure out why I was throwing up. So, if there was a– if she needed a dough to make the rotis for the for the lunch, and if she kept the leftover dough in the fridge, if she brought it back for lunch, or for dinner, and made with the rotis from what dinner from the– from the dough stored in the refrigerator, I couldn't eat those rotis, I would throw up. It's took some time to figure out why I was throwing up a because I would be perfectly fine until sundown, until before sundown. But when it was evening time, when I was ready to go to sleep, I would throw up. So, nothing had happened in the for– in the last thirty minutes, that I would throw up. So, they couldn't find the connection why I was throwing up. Um, sometimes even now if I touch a bottle of– that is cold, I will start sneezing since that's how sensitive I am to anything that is refrigerated. What else?
[00:15:06]
My grandfather was living in and out of grid town for almost more than fifty years. He was the village Sankar with the moneylender– the only Bank, the old-fashioned Indian Bank in the town– he was the only person who had a shop, and there was only one shop in the entire village. They will not more than twenty households, maybe thirty. That's– it was not too far away. It was probably the last or the second last town before– before the seashore, and it was on the bank of a small river. And, um, there was a school in the– in the town that my grandfather had requested to be built with the to government, and it was only for the fourth grade. So, if anybody wanted to study anything beyond, they had to leave the town and go to another town for anything beyond fourth grade.
[00:16:14]
So, all my parents– all my dad, and all his siblings, and all his friends in the town had to leave the town if they had to study any further. And that's how the next generation left the town, and the town became a ghost town. Like there's nobody left behind. And not once they have been– since the everybody went to the city to get a degree, nobody wanted to go back. So it's like almost a ghost town. I remember my mom– attending my mom's brother's wedding. I was probably one or two years old, maybe one and a half, and I distinctly remember, because I was the center of attraction being– being the child, or the youngest child, from the group's family. I was pampered from both the sides of the families, and I still have those memories. I have memories of sitting in a train singing songs, singing travel songs, going to meet my mom's brother, who was a government employee. And in those days, and even today, if you are in government employee, transfer for job is a common thing. Like you can't be working in the same location all the time. So, you have to travel. Transfer you from one city to another city, one town to another town. So, he was working for a centralized Bank in India. And the banking was not private, then it was only government nationalized banks. So, he was working for a bank, and I remember going to the remotest village, there was government quarters on one side, and there was a farm on the other side, and there was a cowshed in between. And it all stank of cow dung. That's the only smell that you could smell in the house, outside, everywhere. From there I remember going to a place called Shirdi, but for the first time where they– they exposed me to a spiritual personality, who– whose shrine was there. So, at a young age they taught me to trust Him, respect Him, love Him and expect to pray to Him, because he was a saint when he was alive and he's still– his shrine and him is still worshiped in India.
[00:19:05]
On weekends, I have visited to many temples, bridges, dams, museums, farms, family members, my dad's office colleagues and their family, various– on various different occasions. And the– the most common mode of public transportation, the most common mode of transport for us was my dad's moped. If not, if it was too far, then he would take a rickshaw. And if it was out of town, we would, I would, you would either take a public transport bus or a train. So, sitting in train was, like, sought after, like, once-a-year thing. And we have to sit in the train, and I waited for the– for sitting in the train for the whole year, like I knew I had to go someplace once a year. Like that would be, most of the time it would be my mom's brother. So, um, in the Indian culture, I don't know if women follow it now, families follow it now, but in those days, if a daughter is pregnant, most of the time, she would be sent to her parents’ house for delivery, and she would stay with the parents for the six months, six months to a year. They– they would be, they would take care of her healing. Um, and then after the naming ceremony, the father would come and take the child and the mother back to their home. But because there are better facilities in the hospitals in the city, as compared to the villages in the towns, people would deliver in the city if they were in the city with her husband. And after the delivery they would be sent to the– their parents’ house. That's what my parents did. I was delivered in the city instead of in my, instead of my mom's hometown. And then after the delivery, my grandfather came and picked up me and my mother. And I think we were there, probably, for the first six to eight months after my birth. After the naming ceremony, there is like, you invite the father's family and you throw, and you host a naming ceremony. And then basically the father takes the mother and the child with him. So, this is what exactly happened with me. And I– I have– I don't have memories, but I have family members sharing that my mom had a difficulty connecting with me. Connecting with me means she would find excuse to stay away from me. She was okay if another family member was taking care of me, or she was okay if the– the maids were taking care of me. Um, and then they say that they made one mistake when I was an infant, like less than 8 months old, when we were living with my mom's family after the birth. Somebody told them that eating a raw egg would produce a lot of breast milk and the child will not be hungry because she is well fed because she will have enough milk. So, my mom started eating eggs. Now we come from a strictly vegetarian family. We follow Krishna, and we don't eat eggs, so it was not in my DNA– neither did my father eat, neither did my mom– it just for to get more extra breast milk, she started eating eggs. So now, It didn't tell well with me. So the raw uncooked egg being fed to me through the breast milk, probably, they say, that is the reason or the reason or source of my nausea. Like I would throw up profusely after she breastfed me. So, they don't know what exactly the reason is there. It's just their speculation and assumption that that might be the case. So, she had a problem. She didn't want it, a sick child. She didn't like that her child was sick and not digesting the milk properly, so that annoyed her as, so, that's what my grandmother told me. So I could read it– I don't know the entire story because I never asked my mom, but that's what she would say.
[00:24:21]
I remember I have memories of celebrating Diwali at my grandparents’ house in my mom's hometown, and about memories of celebrating Diwali, and Holi and Rinpoche with my city, with my family, and with my cousins and friends and neighbors. I also have memories of going to school, a daycare, no, a day school, like a nursery for two hours a day. And I made lots of friends. I learned a lot of poems. I learned new games I made. And I loved my teachers, I was one of the favorites of my teacher. And when I would come home, I had created a corner of the room, bedroom, as my stage. And I would stand there, and I would sing, and I would make my mom and dad watch me, or I would stand on a chair in front of my grandpa's daybed and sing for them. And I would expect them to clap for me, and if they did not, it made me upset. So, um, I would find my audience, and I would love the praise and attention. I remember one time there were five widows, maybe four, from my dad’s mom's hometown that had come to stay with us. One of them was my dad's mom's sister, and the other rest of the three or five or four of them were her friends. But all of them were widows. All of them were senior citizens. And because– my grandfather was the eldest son-in-law, so the other members of my grandma's family looked upon to my grandfather for advice or as a support system. But I have to tell you, I, my dad, who lost his mom when he was ten or twelve years old, so my grandfather did not go for a second wedding. My dad, there are a total of eight siblings. So, my grandfather chose to stay alone and so did my grandmother’s sister, she was alone too. So, they would come on some, for summer vacation once in a while, to spend some time in the city with the family members because being a widow means basically, you are either alone staying in the village by yourself, or if you have children yourself, your children are staying with you. So, these women did not have their children of their own, so they were living by themselves alone. So, they would come, and I remember we had split two grannies in one bedroom, and two grannies in the other bedroom. And between me and my other cousin fought who’s the favorite granny and who's going to be in whose bedroom. Like we had a tug-of-war choosing who comes, who gets who. And I remember I, this, in one afternoon I gathered all these four or five of these grannies, because they were my audience and I was standing in my favorite corner and singing and dancing, and one of them did not clap. I was happy for the three who clapped, but I was unhappy for the one who did not. So, uh, I remember I wanted them to do my hair and so I gave them turns. Like, “Today you do my hair. The other day you do my hair.” So with four or five days, each one gave me a hairstyle. And, so, what else? Okay, let me see what I have written.
[00:28:40]
My mom would love to watch movies. I remember even in the afternoon, when both of the dad’s, like my uncle and my dad, were away at work, both the moms, like my aunt and my mom, would take the three of us in an auto rickshaw and we would go and watch movies in the afternoons. Once the grandfather was given his lunch, we would go for the afternoon show and we would be back before both the fathers were back from work. I would accompany my mom to her Kitty, uh, monthly meeting. So, all the women would come together for tea and snacks, they would, uh, they would chip in the monthly Kitty and then they would pick up a draw who gets the Kitty and they would bring, all those women– all those Auntie's– would bring their children because they were all young. And we– we children would play together. And one of my mom's neighbors from her hometown also had a house, extended house, in the city, so we would spend a lot of time in their house when they were in the city for their work. What else I could think of?
[00:30:19]
Oh yeah, I remember I was, when I came back from play school one day I was scratching my head and I was, I got yelled at because I brought back lice, and it was like a two-week process to get rid of everything because we didn't had the kits that we get– in India, we didn't have the kits that we get OTC in America now. The process was to apply a very stinky smelling oil on your hair, so that with the smell of that oil the lice in your hair die. And then you have to sit and take one hair at a time and see if there are dead lice, and then you have to remove the dead ones. So, there was no going to the school for those two weeks, and then she was removing each and every lice out of my head and she's, like, pulling them out because they are stuck so hard. And then there is a special kind of comb that you get to remove the lice from your hair. And I remember my uncle and aunt asked my cousin to stay away from me because they didn't want to go through the same process as so, “Don't play with her.” The other things, my mom would spend a lot of time in a nearby temple, of goddess temple, and I would accompany her. And I remember color– they were flower trees in the– in the– surrounding the temple, and I would collect the flowers falling down and I would make rings, finger rings, of the flowers. And that was one, that was a good time that I spend with my mom. Of the other times, I remember me and my mom walking to grocery stores or walking to the tailor or walking and going to a parlor– just accompanying her because she couldn't leave me alone at home. So, I would spend a lot of time on weekends going to into one particular park every weekend, and there was a zoo– city zoo– right next to the park. So, if we could, if we left from home early enough, we would also buy a ticket to the zoo and go inside and watch the animals. If not, then we just spend time outside. But spending time outside meant buying a balloon and playing with the balloon, buying the small kit of water bubbles, buying popcorns and playing tag with my dad. So that was– that was– that's the memories I had with him. Sitting on the– sitting on the elephant for the elephant ride, sitting on a camel for the camel ride, sitting on a horse or a pony for a horse ride, because that's– that outside the park and outside the zoo for the children– that was something we looked towards as a child, looked forward to. And then eating an ice cream, I normally wouldn't eat the ice cream, but what I would do is, that one particular shop would give a toy if you bought an ice cream there. So, for every child got a toy, and the attraction was to get that toy. So– so you buy the ice cream, you eat it or not is not important, but the toy was important. And I don't remember myself, but my mom said I had my favorite doll for more than three years. And she was my best friend, but I have no memory of that.
[00:34:46]
But to be honest with all these rosy memories, everything wasn't rosy, there were other issues. I have experienced neglect and abuse even in the first four years of my life. I don't know what the issue with my mom was, but behind the closed door she was angry and upset and not happy. And to express that she would hurt me. Hurt me to an extent where it was a serious case of child abuse. I mean everything outside was beautiful, everything inside, behind the door, was ugly. Not all the time, but most of the times. I remember I wanted attention. I wanted her to play with me in the– in the game of kitchen I was playing. I had created my own kitchen with all my small utensils, and I had, I think I– I wanted her to participate, I wanted her to be play with me, and I don't know what triggered, but she started beating me up for seeking attention. And I don't know why, but she didn't want to participate in the game that I was playing. And saying, no could probably have– could have been sufficient, but I don't know why she went to the extent of beating me up. And this didn't happen once, this happened many times in many different situations and reasons and occasions, and it went from a degree of one to ten and everything in between. So when, every time I complain to my dad that mom beat me up today, she would say, “She is lying,” and she would say, “she's trying to put up a fight between both of us.” She would say not to trust her because she's making things up. So, my father was confused many a times. A couple of times he would yell at my mom for abusing me, but then the reasons, an explanation she would give, my dad would question me and my motives. When left alone with my mom, my mom would abuse me and hit me, pinch me, punch me, saying, I speak a lot of truth, truth that gets her in trouble and I have to be careful how much– how much I share. Whether it is my dad, whether it is my grandfather, whether it is her parents, whether it is my uncle and aunt, with– whether it's my friends, also anybody, um, because it gets her in trouble. And the only truth I would share that might get her in trouble was she hit me, or she harmed me. So was– she had created an image for me that I– like she's concerned about my personality, because I lie a lot? That was her story in public for the third person. Behind the doors, when my dad was at work and it was just her and me in the bedroom, I speak way too much of truth, and she gets in trouble. She gets in trouble only when I tell that she harms me, there is no other– there is nothing else that I speak that which should be getting her in trouble. So, one day I don't remember the reason that triggered her, but she picked me up and she threw me against the wall. She was standing next to the bed, edge of the bed, and I will– she threw me against the wall. We were probably anything between five to seven feet away from the wall. And I remember I saw blood on the wall, and I fainted. I woke up on my own, I don't know after how long, but it has to be in time because my dad was not yet home, it was afternoon time, and it was between after lunch and before my dad came home. So I was full of blood, and when I woke up she picked me up, made me walk myself, she took me to the bathroom– made sure there was nobody else on the floor watching– she cleaned my blood, she changed my clothes, she wash– washed the clothes off the blood. She got some ice from downstairs so that she can hide the blood and she could stop the blood. And there was just a blue, black and blue mountain on my head. You see this? This is all bald here. There's no hair growth at all. This was the place where I hurt myself. There never grew any hair on here, and I always hide it for all these years, but there's never, no hair grew there after that.
[00:40:22]
So– so when my dad came, he asked me what happened. She said, she probably said that I fell down, I hurt myself, I thought to myself, but she– I'm sure she, she'd never said that she hurt me. So– so with that accident, two things happened. I always have shortness of breath because I was never taken to a doctor. I was never treated, diagnosed of anything, and I could never excel in sports. Like I– I love to play badminton, but I cannot after this period of time, because I become breathless, and many times I have fainted. I tried to– to go further, but I couldn't. Any game, I can walk but I cannot run, because I start with grasping for air. So that took– took away an option of choosing sports as an option for my career. So many times, I remember her saying, “If you tell your dad I hit you, he's going to go to work tomorrow again, and you will be with me alone again.” So, the next day was more harmful than the first day if I complain. So, I really learnt, I remember I tell that to– tell my dad that, “Mama did not beat me today.” So, every time I told my dad “Mama didn't beat me today,” it meant that she did beat me. And my dad started ignoring both of us, her and me. So, I remember there were times when my aunt or my cousin would knock at the door, but she wouldn't open the door for them. Neither would she stop hitting me. So I don't know exactly what was triggering her, what was happening inside her and why she would act like this. In public she was like my bodyguard, but behind the door, I needed a bodyguard to protect myself from her. It was hard to prove the things people– people learned. People learn to because we shared a common wall with the next door neighbor. They would hear. So what would happen is after a couple of months or a couple of– sometime the neighbor's son would come directly up to our bedroom and say, “My dad or my mom wants to play with [Redacted] and they're missing her. My dad asked to bring her to our house.” So, I would go to their house, and he would, they would calm me down and play with me and spend time with me. It spread in the neighborhood. So, another family would come here with the– the women of the family would come and say, “I don't have a daughter of my own, I have only two sons. I want to spend some time with your daughter. I just feel happy when I spend time with your daughter.” And she would steal me for some time. In all this process I had learned to go outdoor on my own, by that time, after, after the age of two and a half. And you would see the children of my age, at two and a half and three, playing by themselves on the street, in the neighborhood, in the complex without an adult supervision. So, it was okay. Nobody thought about it any that it was wrong. So, which we kids would play there outside the house. I made friends with a neighbor, with a senior, with an adult male who now is my godfather and he's in, he's a London-returned engineer– which means he studied in either Oxford or Cambridge, he did his is engineering and he came back to India– so he was working for the government of India as a scientist, and later he changed his career path profession to teaching. So he moved to our city and was a professor in an engineering college. He was our neighbor. His townhouse was exactly opposite to ours, so I started crossing the road on my own and going to his house to chat with him, spend time with her, and we made the best of the friends. I made friends with his wife, I made friends with his parents, and they didn't have children of their own. They, even today, they don't have their children. Even today they don't have their own child. So, I was like a child to them, and they would spend a lot of time with me. I learned a lot of– a lot of things from them. I spent a lot of time with them, and I felt loved, respected, and accepted. There was no double face in the relationship. And that's what I liked about that relationship to an extent where ,when I woke up, the first thing I did was take my brush and run to their house. We come back for a nap after lunch. Or even take a nap there. So that was my escape, that was my heaven, their house was my heaven. That was my second family. And for some time, it became my first family. So even though I had such wonderful experiences as memories with my mom and dad, even though I know they love me and care for me and did the best thing for me, but there was one person with one particular behavior I– that created fear and me and all these experiences between me and my mom and exchanges between me and her, I get quiet. I stopped singing. I stopped seeking attention. I stopped performing. I stopped talking. I wouldn’t open my mouth if my mom and dad were there. I wouldn't open my mouth to speak if my dad was there by himself or only my mom was there. I spoke only when I was in their home, in my godparents’ home. That's the only place I spoke. I wouldn't speak if I was with my granny or any with my mom's parents. I just wouldn't speak, I shut down. And many a times I shut down, even when I was with my godparents. Only if they interacted, I interacted. I stopped my interactions completely, entirely. I don't know which one particular incident triggered it but, collectively I just didn't seek the attention and left my stage, never performed, and never looked for an audience after that. What else?
[00:48:33]
So I've built a relationship with my London-returned Godfather to an extent where I loved him and trusted him more. I seeked his attention and acceptance more than anybody else. I remember– I don't remember, but I know that they share– my mom and my godmother– godmother share– both of them had to go to visit a tailor which was like two or three miles away. So, they walked, and I joined them, I walked with them, or probably, they took turns to pick me up. There was no strollers in India during those time. So, we reach there and the Indians' saris also need a blouse, so they were– they ventured to the tailor, to get their blouses stitched, or they have to pick it up. They had already dropped it off and they had to pick it up after it was ready. And one of the orders of was my dress. It was a two-piece Indian ethnic dress. And as soon as I saw it, I wanted to try it on, and they probably wanted me to try it on too, because they wanted to check if it fit me well or if– whether it needed any adjustments. So, I changed into the new dress and those two women got busy with their own blouse discussion with fitting. Discussion with the– with the tailor. So here, the tailor has a small stand-alone kiosk on a national highway, and on the other side of the road, meaning that if I leave from my house and walk towards his kiosks, I have to cross the national highway to go on the other side, right? So, while going there, it was my mom and my aunt, or my godmother, I was walking with, when I wore that dress, I was so happy. I didn't wait for them. I didn't tell them. I cross the national highway on my own. National highway means you have trucks, right? You have trucks from going from Delhi to Bangalore. And then you have the national, that was the national highway– trucks going from Delhi to Bangalore. Right across that at the age of maybe three, three-and-a-half– not even three-and-a-half, two-and-a-half, three-and-a-half, three– on my own I walk to the store, three miles by myself. The problem was the trucks, and the second problem was the dacoits. Dacoits were a common thing, which they picked up children and they asked for a ransom, because they didn't have the government cash, right? They needed access to the cash. How do– how would they get the government of India's printed bills if they did not have a job or if they did not have a good, registered business? So, to get the access to the currencies, the dacoits would kidnap the children and ask for ransom and then they had the cash.
[Editor’s Note: Dacoit is a Hindi word that means "bandit". This word is used to describe the male and female outlaws who lived in the Chambal region of India beginning in the 1940s until the 1970s. There is much mysticism and lore behind the Chambal region. Its lands and its river, the Charmanyavati, are said to be cursed due to the slaughter of numerous cows by an Aryan king in the region. The topography of Chambal made it the perfect hiding place for people running from the authorities. Today, the construction of roads in what was formerly a remote and difficult-to-access area has contributed to a minimized dacoit presence in the area. According to a Hindustan Times interview, many of these former rebels point to societal shortcomings when explaining why they chose to live in this way. The largely rural economy of the 1940s meant that land disputes were common. Many dacoits chose to settle these disputes personally rather than go through bureaucratic and discriminatory court processes. Others took on the vigilante lifestyle to settle personal vendettas or to avenge themselves or family members. Dacoits were both men and women, and belonged to a range of different castes. Many are older now and have re-entered society after serving jail time. They enjoy being called terms of admiration like, Baghi, Raja, or Thakur.]
So that was one of the reasons– so, my mom– so I cross the road, I walked those two or three miles on my own, and I reached home to show my new dress to my uncle, to my godfather, and he didn't think of anything. So, we are talking chatting, having a fun time together. Here are two ladies turn around, and I was nowhere to be found. They had all weird thoughts about what might have happened to me. They look left and right on the highway to see if there was a child, if something happened to a child. They start on, if they saw a female child and nobody's had an idea. They come home, frightened, saying that now the men– they will tell the men and the men will go to the police station to complain. And I was there chatting, with me with my godfather and– and like I was yelled at school that I loved. I hugged and kissed, and they asked me, “Why did you not– why did you do this?” I said, I wanted to show my new dress to my uncle, that's it. Nope, I shouldn't have, and I did. Anything could have happened, in that thought, everything had happened. So that's the kind of bond I had with him. Even today when I go to India, I will meet him, I will stay with him to an extent when– when I was growing up, I would stay with him at least two to three weeks on an average every year, with my uncle and aunt. So– so now, let me see what I have?
[00:53:32]
So, these are the memories that I have of my first couple of years in the first house that we lived in. Oh yeah, I have written one more here. I remember in the old– in the old house that is, before the– in the first four years, I remember, I probably was in my diaper age and I was, my diaper was overflowing and I started crying in the middle of the night, and I only remember crying and asking for attention. And I– I remember, even today, to today I remember my dad on top of my mom, but fully clothed. So, my mom would bring this up– situation saying I'm trying to keep a distance in them and purposefully doing it with an intent to keep them both away. And during those times, I remember she would say, I took away her honeymoon period time and she would say something on the terms of, “It's a woman's thing,” means they want– women want to own the man in the family. So we both are competing for attention from the only man in the family, and I am doing it planned and as it comes naturally to women. So, I might have done it, I don't know. I might not have done, I don't know. But this is her observation. She says it's a woman thing. So– so my dad launched to ignore both of us at one time. So, at the age of 3, is it true, I don't know. But it might have been. It must be coming naturally or might be coming naturally? I don't know as a child. I'll have to ask my child how they think, you know, like, if is true at that age. Yeah, I remember after, after in India, in the summer vacation, you go and stay with your Nana's house, means your mother's family. It's a very common thing in that– in those generations, even olden times. Now things have changed. People don't go that often or they don't send their grandchildren or their wife. But many families and many cultures still follow the rule, that during the summer vacation everyone is back to their mother's house, to the father's house. Like, so I would go to my mom's dad's family, stay with them for almost maybe a month or two, and then we would come back. So many times, mom accompanied me, many times she didn't, or she could be back after she left us feeling behind and she got her stay. But basically, women get a break from the responsibilities– responsibilities at the husband's house, and they go and take a break and stay with their parents where they don't have to do much, and they are pampered for at least a month or two. That takes away even the financial responsibility from the father, because then the wife's father takes the financial responsibility of the daughter and the grandchildren for that time. And it– and it gives it's like a vacation for the– for the wife and the children. So many of them do it, and most of them used to do it. It was a natural thing, part of– of society. So, I remember my mom's younger cousin was only four or five years older than me, so he was more like an elder brother to me then my uncle. So, we had fond memories and a special bond between both of us. And the– the bond, it was like that of like an elder brother and sister, so he would boss me around all the time to an extent. We would fight every day, argue every day. And I remember, I did, in the first three or four years I didn't get along well with my grandmother, because everything I was either made to do, or asked not to do, was because I'm a girl. She came from the old school, so every explanation as to do this or don't do this was because, “You are a girl,” and that I did not like it. And I would get angry with my grandmother because she wouldn't let me jump from this, or she wouldn't let me climb on that, because he was doing it, right? So many things. And I didn't understand why she is stopping me from doing it. And the reason that I am a girl was not sufficient. So, what I would do is twice a day I would pack my bags, fight, and leave.
So, there were two houses in the same apartment, in the same bungalow. The ground floor was my grandparents, and the second floor was my mom's uncle. So, I would argue with my grandmother because she had talked or halt me from doing something, and then I would pack my bags and go up on the second floor and said, “I fought with my Gram, I'm staying here with you.” So, lunch was downstairs, dinner was upstairs. After dinner I would fight with my– my uncle. I would pack my bags again, “I'm going back.” So, I would pack my bags after dinner, I would– from the first floor I would come down again to the ground floor. And this was almost an everyday thing, and people started mocking me and laughing at me. “So now, where are you going?” “So today, where are you put up?” “Like this hour, where is your bag?” Though neighbors would make fun of me. So, it was fun memories. But I lost him. He– he was 16 years old, my mom's younger cousin informed me, he was my elder brother, he was giving his tentative exam finals for the board, and he puked blood. And he was taken to Mumbai, and they diagnosed him of blood cancer, and they told him no more than six weeks. But he pulled up for six years. But that, his journey was torturous for us to watch. I was– he was 16 when he was diagnosed, he was 21 when we lost him. I was 5 years old to him, so it was like for me from the age of 10 to 16, I was watching him die. And that was my age when I was looking for some more happiness, but it was this– this sadness was shadowing everything around, whether it was my school, whether it was my activities outside, for me it was like I was dying with knowing that he is going to die any time. I don't know if all the other siblings have the same emotions and relations with him. The relation that I had with him was different and special, because there was nobody around to compete for his time and attention. It was just me all the time for the first couple of years. And I was the first, so, and for him, I was a special because I– I was the first in the family. So, because until before I was born, he was the youngest in the family. Now he had somebody old, younger to him to– to shadow him, or to follow him, or so that he could so that he could be an elder brother, too. So, I miss him. He left a void and empty space in my life, and I miss him a lot. I had a grand– till the age of 25, I had my great-grandmothers alive. So, my mom's dad's mom and my mom's mom's mom, both of them were alive. They both were there for my wedding, and I named my daughter after one of them. And– and so it was a very large and extended family. It was– we had beautiful times together. We have seen bad times. And we have– we have seen a lot of things happen, things that we didn't know how to avoid. And in those times, lot of things were not easily accessible in India, even today many resources that are easily available in America is not easily available, or even though, that should be made available in India. Just too many things. So, I have– let's, let's talk about some happy memories.
[01:04:23]
I had a special hair cutter, that was my favorite hair cutter, and she had a parlor in her house, and she also had the same– she lived in the same complex in a different row house. So, her structure of the house was the same: two bedrooms on the top, living room, kitchen, and dining area in the house and on the ground floor. And she didn't have children of her own, so one of the bedrooms was converted into a beauty parlor. So, we would go to her house and she would cut my hair, she would trim my hair, but I would not be very happy because she had her hair to the knee length. And many times, she would leave it open, or she would tie a plait and that would reach, reach her knees. Not knees, sorry, ankles, my bad, not knees, ankles. That– that– that's how her hair was, and I'm like, my mom wouldn't, probably wouldn't let me keep that longer hair. And I had a something that is called bob-cut or tom-cut, I don't know what it was, but I had very short hair like this. There was a flick coming here on my forehead and then I would have a small cut hair. And sometimes she would tie me two ponies on the top, on two corners of my head. So this auntie who would cut my hair, I would call her Keshcha, means hair auntie, that's the name I had given to her. And literal terms, if you want to translate Kesh Chachu to English, Kesh means “hair,” Chachu means “aunt”. [1] So that's, I would call her “hair aunt” and she would pacify me. Spending time with her or spending time in parlor was, like, very grounding. So, I don't know why, but we decided to move, sell the row house and move into a bigger house. One reason could be because my uncle who graduated from in Mumbai after finishing his education wanted to move in, and then we didn't have the third bedroom to accommodate his wife and family. So probably they've decided to– to move in a bigger space. So, what my dad tells me today is they had bought three different individual apartments of two bedrooms each in a complex, in the same building. And when maybe 90% of the construction was completed, the entire building went on fire and nothing was, there was nothing could be saved. So, the contractor, builder, developer, of the complex offered to give an empty lot like a mile or two away from the building, the original building, and offered to give some part of expenses towards building a new house there. Because he had to undergo loss too, and in those days, I doubt there was any insurances there. It was just a loss. It was a complete loss. So that's how he gets, we got an empty lot. And on that empty lot, with the help of selling the– from the finances or the profit from selling the row house, and some finances from my dad they built three, single-bedroom apartments in the same lot. So, we all cousins were reunited, and we were staying in the same complex. So, we were a nuclear, but a joint family. So, my uncle moves in from Mumbai. By this time, he has a younger– he has a daughter. So, I have a younger, female cousin, and they have a dog, and her name is Lucy. Okay. So– so now we are all staying together. The doors would open, the doors between all the apartments, would open immediately at 9:00 or 8:00 in the morning and would be always open until 9:00 or 10:00 at night. There was no ringing a bell or knocking on the door. “Can I come in?” “What are you doing today?” “Can I spend some time with you?” Nothing of that. The doors were always open. You just walk in. I don't have– The, my sugar, the sugar in my kitchen is finished, I need some sugar. Okay, I come to your kitchen. I take my own sugar on my own. I go back to my kitchen. I cook. When I have, when I get my groceries from the kitchen, I take the cup of sugar that I borrowed from your kitchen, I put it back into your kitchen. It was so open that you just walk in and walk out. So, my grandfather chose to stay with my elder– youngest uncle, so he– he moved his day bed over there. And I don't remember, but the adults had a fight, a huge fight, and the doors were shut. The doors were shut.
[01:09:56]
The two fights that they share was between my mom and one between my uncle youngest. From the three Apartments, two were ready and we had moved and the youngest uncle of had not moved in because he had to relocate from Mumbai to India, from Mumbai to Pune. The third apartment was getting ready. It was one weekday afternoon when my dad was in office– Oh, before that, let me tell you, my dad was working for a forging company in an accounts department, a national forging the company, and he took a, he took a VRS because we were falling short of cash to build the house. He took the VRS, and he gave the money to my grandpa to build a house. So, my grandpa, between the two daughters-in-law, the eldest aunt and my mom, my grandfather liked my cooking style of my mom better, and he decided that he wanted to stay with our family with me, my mom, my dad, which was okay with my mom and dad. But one fine day without any invitation, what happened was my uncle, who was supposed to relocate from Mumbai, he showed up at the door, but his apartment wasn't ready. They were expecting that he will show, he will move, relocate, after two months, and by that time the apartment or would be ready. They had to do the plaster, they had to do the flooring, everything was incomplete. So he comes in– I don't know because I probably was not there or I was in school or I was asleep I don't know what had happened, this is a story that my mom shares– so she was, it was after lunch, my grandfather was taking a nap, I probably was taking a nap– or was in the school, I don't remember– and she was sitting in the house, and this uncle comes in with the dog, with his daughter, with his wife, with all the luggage, and he starts mistreating, misbehaving, and yelling at my mom for no reason. And my mom is confused what happened. And basically, the argument ended up that my mom picked me up, he moved into the apartment, and my– my mom moved into an unfinished apartment. So, so basically, she picked me up means I was asleep, I was taking an afternoon nap. So, I don't know why he horribly abused her, my mom, for what reason, but she couldn't take it at one point. She couldn't take it. She just picked me up and she moved into the– the unfinished apartment. And she said, “I'm not moving back into that apartment. I'm going to wait till the apartment is complete and I'm going to set up my house in this apartment.” And then it was up, left up to grandfather whether he wanted to move with us in the new apartment, or stay with him in the whole apartment. So, the grandfather decided to stay in the same apartment. So, the apartment that was supposed to be mine and my parents, my own younger uncle took charge of it, or control of it, and my mother moved on. So, when my dad came home, he was confused as to what had happened, and my mom was crying profusely, so that was the end. But even then, for a year– or half-year– a year, year-and-a-half– probably things were fine. We– I remember that we still played Holi together, Rinpoche together, we– we celebrated Diwali together, and the doors were open, and I remember we celebrate Ganesa together. So, they were on talking terms, but they were not on talking terms, so there was both. So, it was not the same as it was before, but it was not as bad.
[01:14:30]
So, 2000– 1984, we had the Ganesa, so for Ganesa celebration, my dad's elder sister would take a day off from work– they would take a vacation off from work– and she would come stay with us for the celebration. And then after a week, or she would go back to her work, or to her family. So, she came for the Ganesa, everything was done in time to go back to work. She started complaining about a stomachache, a serious time. She was yelling, she was crying in pain. So, my dad's first cousin was a doctor, so we went to her– him, and with all the diagnosis, I think they diagnosed her with cancer. And she was picked up in my apartment with my mom and dad. We shared the same bedroom. We all slept in the same bedroom, it's a very common thing in India, like, you sleep with your parents in the same room. So, or even if you have family or guests, everybody sleeps together. You just put an additional bed, like a cotton bed, on the floor and that's a bed for you. That's it, that's your– that's your sleeping mattress. So, she never went back. Within a couple of months, we lost her. And I saw her yelling and crying every day in my bedroom. That created– created some fear as to what was happening to her. I distinctly remember that people were feeding her water. Basically, in Indian culture, you know that they are leaving, so you, you give them the Holy Water by the spoon, like every family gives some, puts in some Holy Water drink on the dying person's tongue. I want to believe I did that too. But because for a long time, I believed that because I gave the water she died. But I don't have the exact image in front of my eyes that I gave her the water, but I have the emotion and feeling inside me that because I gave the water she died. So I'm sure I must have given her water. I have seen her die in front of my eyes, and so that also left a big mark on my memory.
I want to believe probably my mom– October, became pregnant during the same time as we lost her. Or maybe right immediately after that. So, my sister came in October 25th ‘85. And I remember coming home from school, or probably my dad came to pick me up early from the school saying that, “we have a we have a baby sister for you.” But it was not happy thing because my mom was diagnosed of severe jaundice in the last month of pregnancy and the baby had the jaundice too, and she was in the incubator for almost more than four to seven weeks. So, the baby never came home, neither did Mom, so both of them were hospitalized. And after school, I would go and meet my– after school I would come home and wait for my dad to come from work and then he would take me to the hospitals, where we would meet–and there was a restaurant right under the ground floor, was a restaurant. And this first floor, like in America, you would call it first floor, first floor, and second floor, in India, we call it ground and first. So, the– the ground floor had a restaurant, and on top of that, the first floor was entire hospital, or nursing home– we shouldn't be call it a hospital, but it was a nursing home. So, she was the baby, and my mom were there. I remember going to school without lunch box because my dad forgot, or didn't have enough time, or I forgot to pick it up, because every time my mom would give it in my hand to take it with me. So, dad will pick it to make it ready and keep it ready on the kitchen counter, but he didn't take that up, which was to give it, pick it up and give it to my hand. I would rush to go to the school, or he would rush me to go to the school. So many times, I forgot. There was nobody to take my homework. There was nobody to explain me how to do it, or what to do so many times I faltered, and my homework was never complete where my teacher started complaining and wanted my father to come meet me. Wanted my parents to come meet me. That's when I didn't tell anybody, but on my own, what was happening, so probably my dad told my teachers that her mother is in the ICU, the baby’s in the ICU and– and there's nobody to take care of her after school, so maybe she must be faltering. So, I started getting love and attention from the teacher. My school friend started bringing an extra lunch box for me. A friend of mine’s was– was the school principal's brother's daughter. She would take me to the principal's house for lunch, and she would share her lunchbox with me. Like she had a kid in the school. All my school was a private school. It was an English medium school. It was not a vernacular school, meaning it was not the– the medium of the language, or the medium of this teaching, or the books was English and not a vernacular because in India you will get every state has their own language and there will be schools in the vernacular language. Meaning, the first language will be the local language, and after you go through to fifth grade you will have English as a second. Maths and science will be taught in English after fifth grade or after seventh grade depending on the school. But until then you will be learning everything, including science, history, maths, arts, everything in the vernacular language. So, my school's principal, or the family that owned the school, was Muslims. And we went to do the– to the school and it was a private school. There were two buildings of school; one was the old building; the other was the new building. And between the two buildings there was the principal's bungalow. The principal lives to right there with her entire family. And the principal’s, of most of the family members children also studied in the same school. So, one of them was a very good friend of mine. And she would hold my hand and she would say, “Let's go eat,” and she would take me to the principal's office or home and in the living room, both of us would sit, or outside in the verandah, both of us would sit, and she would share her lunchbox with me. That's how I made friends. And I remembered the principal’s husband was– had his own business, but he would many times during lunch hour would be home, and he would speak to both, both of us and he was a very nice, gentleman, and respectable to both of us.
[01:22:43]
What else? So, so after my mom was just discharged, she came home for some time. And then, as usual, she went to my nana's house with the newborn baby for some– for a couple of months. And again, I was all alone by myself. But before when my mom and my younger sister were in the hospital for almost six to eight months or weeks, me and my dad had a ritual, or schedule, that on the way before going to the hospital both of us would go to one particular goddess temple and we would pray there together. Then we would go see the baby and then we would come down in the restaurant and would eat some dinner and then go home, or sometimes my aunts would make lunch and dinner for us and they would give it to us or the aunts would bring that lunch over or dinner over for us. Many times, when I came from the school there was no after school snack, but my grandfather would come in at the age of 75 or 80, maybe 75, and he would boil some a glass of milk for me, add some [unclear], and he would give that to me. If he had saved anything from his snack, he would give it to me. So I would go to this temple with my dad and I would pray, I would pray, “Please save my mom, please save my sister, I like her, I loved her. When she becomes big I want to share this with her. I'm going to do this for her. I’m going to do this with her.” And– and the baby was showing improvement, so was my mom, and, and I was like, “Oh I’m– I am somebody special,” you know? Like because I asked for it the goddess gave it to me and she’s nice to me. So– and time went by and my mom went to her mother’s house. One thing I remember, I wasn’t invited or maybe there was no effort made to get me from Pune to Mahad, to my mom’s house, my premarital house, for me to attend my baby sister’s naming ceremony. I don’t know why I was not included. So, I remember my dad going, and him telling my grandfather to look after me, but I wasn’t invited. My dad didn’t take me with him so I’m like, I still didn’t bother asking them that, I still have that grudge. What is it that you left from the same house, went to the ceremony? Why did I, why did you not take me with you? Like what was happening? I need to take a break.
[1:25:51]
[End of Recording One]
[Beginning of Recording Two]
[00:00:00]
So, as I was saying, I don’t know why I wasn’t, I didn’t go with my dad to my sister’s naming ceremony. But I know after a few, after a day or two they all came back, like my mom, my dad, and my sister all came to stay with us. I don’t remember whether my mom’s grandmother accompanied at the same time, but I know she came and stayed with us to help my mom out with the new one, and with the two children. And they took rounds, like my grandmother would come and both my great-grandmothers would come and between the three of them they took turns, and they kept coming and staying with us until my mom was more adjusted and everything was normalized. Um, and as I was saying about earlier, about the two fights or argument the adults had, the first happened as I explained and the second happened after my sister was born. My mom was taking a shower, she came out and the baby started crying because she was hungry, and my mom started feeding the baby. The door was closed, because my mom was just out of the bathroom, between the apartments, which was normally supposed to be open or was left open. And my mom heard a knock on the door and my mom whispered, “The baby– don’t come in the baby is sleeping.” Maybe she was too soft, the person on the other side of the door didn’t hear it, so she kept bang and banging and banging to which my mom responded and ran, so that the baby does was not disturbed and she said, “Let me dress up, I am feeding the baby, I will come back to you.” To which, on the other side of the door was the maid of my younger uncle, and I believe she was the common maid between both the families. This maid went and, um– my uncle’s wife was working as a schoolteacher, as an assistant schoolteacher aid in one of the schools, and probably my uncle did not have a job and was looking for a job. He was working for an electronics company; he also got a VRC looking at home for a job. So, he was home, and it was lunchtime and he wanted to eat, and the maid was also a cook, because his wife was working, so she would cook for them. They ran out of potatoes or onions or something like that, and she had to make the curry so it would be ready for him by lunch, to which this maid went and told my uncle that my mom was saying she didn’t have potatoes or onions, or she is saying “no” and she will not give it to you. To which my uncle lost his cool and came and was banging harshly on the door. My mom dressed herself, put the baby to sleep, and opened the door and had no clue because he’s yelling. So he said, “Give me some time!” “I was giving it to you,” she said. “You said you were not giving it, that’s what the maid communicated.” So he went to an extent, my mom’s says, cursing her to an extent, that he lost his control and started cursing my mom’s parents where he even brought up the social stature or the social standing of my grandfather’s earnings, that probably, that’s why my mom has an ego, because she is the daughter of a rich man. Which my mom did not lose her cool, she started crying again, and once that door has closed it hasn’t been open yet. It's closed. The relation is strained because of the maid who created a false communication between the two of them. And my dad came home, and we had a huge storage rack that blocks the door from one place in the house. It was moved to behind the door, and it’s closed. It's shut. Even today. My mom has not spoken to my uncle and is not happy if I, my sister, or my dad speaks to him or his family. She said, “The maid just started working for your house and our house not less than six months ago, you have known me for the last five years. I need a little trust and respect.” And that was the second argument the elders had, and again it involved him, my younger uncle, and my mom in both situations. And that was the end. Many things happened after that because of these two arguments between both of them, but we will come to that later, but this is how things ended. And we can stop here if you want.
[00:06:04]
[End of Recording Two]
TRANSCRIPT 2
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Edison, New Jersey
July 7, 2022
Transcriptions by Katie Scrivani
Annotations by Lucy Gilch
[00:00:00]
Today is Thursday, July 7th. It's 1:15 p.m. This is Dan Swern, at Amandla Crossings, and I’m here interviewing–
[Redacted]
[Redacted], thank you for meeting again for the second time.
Sure thing
As we continue your story, whenever you are ready, we can start.
Last time we– we were discussing about how two arguments between my mom and my uncle affected the entire family. So, a lot of things have changed between the three families that lived in the three apartments on the same plot. The– the celebration of– the festival celebrations that we did– that we once did together were, started happening on an individual nuclear family level, or they never happened. Like for the first couple of years my father was enthusiastic about celebrating Holi just between the four of us, and then I remember then there was no celebration of Holi between the four of us, and then we had to look up her friends or external family to celebrate the festival.
[Editor’s Note: Holi is traditionally a Hindu holiday that is also commonly celebrated by other religious communities in India. The celebration takes place in March and marks the beginning of spring, as well as the success of good over evil. A common practice is to throw colored flour and splash each other with colored water. Each of the colors has a different meaning, and has given the holiday its unofficial name of "the Festival of Colors."]
The only times when we came together was for the Ganesha Festival, because my grandfather was still alive, and it was required that we celebrated his way. And there was only one idol that– that– that we brought– brought in for the festival and there could have possibly been three different idols that each man of the family would have got to celebrate on a nuclear level, but that didn't happen. We just– but they just, they took the, took the responsibility of who does what, so, because my grandfather was staying with my younger uncle, the– the Ganesha Festival was staged in his house. My father would buy the other, buy the idol– would spend it– that, that was his contribution, and my elder uncle would buy the supplies– the flowers, and all the prayer material for the– of the fruits, and flowers, and all the different kinds of material required for the prayers– for the one-and-a-half-day festival. The festival, I don't know if I mentioned this, but the festival, we started– my grandfather started– celebrating this festival because his younger brother couldn't– his wife, his younger brother's wife, had multiple miscarriages and the children wouldn't survive, so as part of prayer and religious offerings and law of attraction they decided to host the full Ganesha festival at home for one and a half days, in return asking for life and survival for the children in the family that were born. And it worked, like, my grandfather's youngest brother had two living children, one daughter and son, and now that's, they have the third generation already. So it– so, because it started in our house, it is mandatory that we keep continuing it for the well-being of the next generations that come. So, because the, my grandfather was the eldest son, because he started it, it was assumed that my eldest uncle would take it, but my youngest uncle took the responsibility of hosting it at his home. And so, it works.
[Editor’s Note: Ganesha or Ganesh Chaturthi is a Hindu festival that represents the birth of Ganesha, known as the Remover of Obstacles and the God of New Beginning. The ten-day festival usually begins in August or September. On the first day, celebrants place figurines and statues of Lord Ganesha in their homes and in public places. On the last day, these idols are carried in processions to a body of water and immersed in it, marking the removal of each household's obstacles.]
[00:03:50]
So apart from this there was no other festival that we came together for. Diwali Festival was a five-minute meeting. We would go there and touch their feet. “How are you?” “I'm doing good.” No more communication and we would come back. But we would celebrate it on our– in our home. We, my dad and I, we all would go buy crackers, firecrackers. Mom would make desserts or Diwali sweets at home, and we would go shopping, buying new clothes. There was only– there were only two occasions to buy new clothes. One was for the Diwali, and the other– the other was for the birthday. And then you keep wearing them, those new dresses, during the whole year. I'm not talking about the day-to-day dress clothes. Like, these are festival or partyware, or wedding, wedding kind of ware. It’s those kinds of clothes. So that if there was a wedding, I doubt we would ever go and buy a new dress, we would have to wear those things once that we bought for the Diwali or your birthday.
[Editor’s Note: Diwali is celebrated across India by Hindus, Sikhs, and Jains, each of which have their own specific holiday origin story, as well as regionally-specific ways of observing. The word comes from a Sanskirt word deepavali which means "a row of lights." For Hindus, the holiday marks the start of a new year. A common practice is to light diyas or clay lamps outside of one's home. People also usually dress in new clothes and hold family gatherings. Diwali lasts five days, with each day carrying its own specific meaning.]
Then, my sister was growing up very fast. If you remember, I shared that, just right before my sister was born, we lost my aunt, my dad's sister. And then there were two more, or there was one more, birth in the family. That was my younger uncle delivered. Another baby boy. I mean, his wife delivered a baby boy. So we were, it became six of us in the family. So, there were three girls and three boys in the family. The first five, the first four, had a relationship because we played with each other, and we stay together for a long time. The younger two never had any connection with the rest of us. Even while growing up, I understand that my mother's personality changed, I have discussed how the relationship between me and my mom was, so when my mom was growing up, my sister was growing up, I don't know why, but my mom didn't feel it comfortable, for me and my sister to have a healthy relationship. She would say, “These two girls come together, they will, they, if they gel together, if they become a team, they will send us to our old age homes.” So, she would put up a fight between both of us, created confusion, and created distrust and disrespect. Ideally, as a mother, she should have been teaching the younger one to respect the elder one, it didn't happen. The only teaching came was from my dad, because he insisted that the younger one has to respect the elder one, but my mom had a baggage of her relationship between her and her brother. She, my mom, was the youngest and my uncle was the eldest, so she had no memories of how the youngest treated the elder brother– the way the first child treated the younger child and she, um, kind of assumed that I was going to be the same to my sister. I don't know what, but she's probably– she made up stories that of things that I never did. But my sister has a baggage of thoughts and stories that probably my mom told, but that never happened. Like, she has stories of how I was mistreated and illtreated her. But the reality was I overprotected her. When she was born, I was fearful that my mom would do the same to her that she did to me. So, I was overprotective towards my sister. And there were times when my mom would be not just not beat me up, that she would beat my sister up. So I became protective towards her. And my mom first started saying that if these two girls come together, she'll they will send me to the orphanage. So she started working towards a splitting both of us. And so again the same thing happens –stories, what things happened between me, and my sister, and my mom during the day were told differently to my dad when he came back home. Things that I never did reached my dad as a complaint. So, it created– it was always about creating a negative image for myself. By that time, I had started hating not just my mom, but everybody from the town she came from. Because I just– at that age of maybe, seven, eight, and nine, probably– I had decided everybody who comes from that city or town was just like these kinds of people, except my grandfather and my grandmother, because I loved them because they cared for me. I had a different relationship with them. I was– I was trying to figure the world out at that time, point of time. Like, how is the world? What is the world? What is it, what is it about the world?
[00:09:01]
By ten, um, eleven and twelve, I had my people were already talking about my marriage, my mom and my grandmother, my mom's mom. By thirteen, I know they had already finalized who I should be married to. My mom's maternal uncle's son, like my mom's first cousin, just graduated and was from the science major– physics and chemistry, and he had, he got a job in one of the engineering companies in the city. He moved from the village to the city and then he got a five-figure income salary, and the women were like, “We're not letting this go,” you know? So, they would– they wanted to keep the man in the family and who could, who would be the girl? So, at twelve, my grandmother is like, okay, let's get [Redacted] married to him, and I'm like already terrorized, like what do you mean? And for me, I thought marriage meant my mom and dad's relationship. So, I had assumed of that when you get married all you have to do is argue with each other [laughs] on anything and everything. You just debate. And I didn’t want it. So for me, I didn't want it to get married because I didn't want to debate. Then there was a presumed first option for every girl coming from a Maharashtrian background is– if you remember I told you– you marry your– you marry– you– your first choice to get married for a girl is your dad's sister's son. I don't know if I share it with you or somebody else, but if you are– if you're coming from a Maharashtrian background, like the state of Mumbai, so basically, they would consider that if your– if your dad has a sister, and a sister has a son, you get married to him. That's the first choice that they give you. So, my first cousin, my aunt, brought a son was almost like fifteen or twenty years older to me, and that was a tug-of-war inside me. When they started talking about it as a consideration when I was in, probably the fifth or the sixth grade because it was, he was completing his engineering graduation, so he became, as I believe he became a civil engineer, so him, at seventh grade, they were talking about, maybe fifth grade or sixth grade, they were talking about getting me married to him because that was the obvious relationship to get into in and whether they should let me study after getting married. And I was, like, in shock, like, how can I– I'm looking at my friends at school and I'm like, I will have to leave my school and get married to this guy. My brother, or my cousin, who's fifteen, seventeen years older to me, and I'm never coming back to school, and the elders in the family are deciding and discussing this for me, and I was like, maybe they are joking or trying to threaten me or, you know. Maybe I should study hard and just focus on school. I didn't know what was happening, but they were discussing. I had my aunt's husband call me daughter– “my, my daughter-in-law,” and I was like, okay, and I knew this was coming at it, it's it. I was scared. I was scared. I was nervous. I stopped talking, interacting. I became an introvert. Like, because there was fear inside me of what. And, but by seventh grade, the discussions stopped, and he married somebody else who was just two or three years younger to him. So, I will, you won't believe how relieved I was after he got married. My personality changed completely after that because then I don't have to think about what, what if and what not. So, there's two things that happened when this was over; then my– when he got married, my grandmother brought his or her brother's proposal, her brother's son’s proposal, my maternal uncle's proposal for me. So that again took a toll on me. By ninth grade he got married, so I was like, okay now I can change gears.
[00:13:41]
So, between this, I remember four out of thirteen years, I was a school– in the school I was a class monitor, what we call as the head of the class for the students, for almost nine years. And I was the teacher’s choice, because they trusted me that under her, the class is going to be quiet. She knows how to control, and more importantly, people– students cared and respected me. They wouldn't get me in trouble, they would not get me in trouble. So, for the love, care, and affection and respect that they gave me, it was not a pin drop silence, but we played games. We would play a Tic Tac Toes, and we would play a game called Name, Place, Animal, Thing. I don't know if you guys played in this part of the world but it's a common– it's a very common way for you to get your vocabulary and spelling correct, and your general knowledge. So you give a word, you start with an “A” and then in your mind, and your mind are the remaining letters, and the students have to say “stop.” So whenever you say stop, are so you– if you give the letter “R”, the entire class has to write name, place, animal, thing starting with ‘R’ and you have it. No one person should have the same one. So, if you have a unique name, you get a mark, if it is a repeat name nobody gets a mark. So, it was fun game we will play. And that kept us on edge, too, with the spelling and with general knowledge and my memory. And we had started playing it as early as probably third or fourth year, fourth grade. So that was fun. I remember a lot of my friends started leaving school because their fathers had transferred, or they– they wanted to go to a different school. Leaving a private school, they wanted to go to a Catholic school or any other, and various reasons. So, I lost in touch with very close and dear friends. At home, if you remember about the story that I shared about the building on fire and moving into an independent plot building and bungalow there, the– the empty lots that we had around our home, people had started buying the lots and building homes there. So, playing in the construction site and watching at least more than twenty-five to thirty bungalows being built in front of in a span of ten years, it was a learning curve. And I know we would do dare games on those construction sites, jumping from the first floor, jumping from the second floor. There would be the day there when the sand truck would empty the– the sand on the construction site that would be a huge mountain of sand and who would break that mountain. So, it had to be us. So, we would go on the first floor, the second floor of the building construction and jump into the sand mountain. One of us decided– I wouldn't name who would– who it was, but that in this shed that we don't have enough cricket balls to play for this summer, because we already broke two glasses, and we haven't paid back for the glasses yet from our pocket money. The parents are not going to give us any more cricket balls or money to buy cricket balls. So, what do we do? Let's earn. So, he says, “I have an idea. I saw my mom sell the old utensils and stuff from the house and that man gives you money.” Okay, so where is the old utensils coming from? So, he said, “No, he had so many other things on.” So, I said, “Where?” ”Look, this construction site has so many nails and iron here. Let's pick it up and let's sell it to that man, and then let's get the money for it.” It was stealing. It was robbing, because it was somebody else's property. But It didn't occur to us then, we only knew we needed a cricket, new cricket balls for the summer vacation. And so, there was a– there was a gunny bag, probably it would carry 50 pounds of grain in it. So, we picked that gunny bags, filled all the nails and iron rods and iron wires in it. It took us a good two hours to fill that up, pick up whatever we could, and we started picking it up, lifting, and we couldn't because we were, like, maybe– maybe fifth grade or fourth grade, right? And it was too heavy for the four of us to pick it up. And the watchman, the construction site watchman saw us, as he thought that we were playing as usual. He didn't know what we were up to when he saw the gunny bag. He said, what are you doing? He said very plainly. We told him, you know, we need money for the cricket balls and just we just taking this. Nothing. There's no problem. He said, “No, you don't have a problem, we have a problem. You can’t take it.” So, here, I know he picked, he pulled one of our ears, my brother's ear, and he, he waited as he dragged us to home complaining that your children are doing all of this. And instead of scolding, my mom started laughing at us as if it we were innocent. She was, she was acknowledging how we– that we were trying to make a living, or we were trying to survive in this world and we didn't know what was right and wrong, and we just kept doing what was okay for us. So, and the– to be honest, even the– the what is this called– the security guy started laughing. So, my mom and him were laughing it up. And we felt embarrassed, like they are laughing at us. Probably if they would have, my mom would have punished us if she would have beaten at the four of us. Probably it would have been a different reaction for us, but when both of them started laughing at us, as you won't believe how embarrassing it was for us. And it took us a long time to figure out why they were laughing at us.
[00:19:53]
Anyway, so this was an everyday thing. Like, some construction building or the other, some story or the other. By that time, the kids had sorted things out between the five of us, that we were going to play. We would play badminton and the other Indians street games. I don't know if you, I don't know their English names. So that there is a game called Lagori, there is a game called Dubai Spice and there is a game called Viti Dandu. So, these are the Indian games and we play it. These are all street games. I mean, and we would play those. Then we picked up badminton, we would play cricket. What was the other game? Hide-n-seek. And then we would play hide-and-seek on a cycle. By that seventh grade, all of us had cycles. So, we would actually play tag, not even hide-and-seek tag on cycle. So, we would go in the society playing cycle-on-cycle, and we had to choose, run, ride fast enough to not let the person catch you, and you had to drive fast to go and catch the person. So, I don't know how we figured that game out. We never seen anybody else do that. But yeah, the other game was going in somebody else's property and plucking flowers, plucking flowers and fruits from the trees. So, it was a very common thing, so nobody complained, nobody yelled at you. So, if you see fresh flowers, a ripe flower, a ripe, a ripe fruit, fresh flowers or ripe fruits on the trees, you won't let it sit there. You just go and grab it. And there were times when people would say, “Now that you are up on my tree, get some down for me too.” So, then nobody asked us to that, “I'll call you a cop. You are in my property. No trespassing.” That that concept wasn't there. They would just yell be careful, don't for hurt yourself or, well, they would say, “if you are up there, get some down for me too.” And we had– we had flowers and fruit trees in our property and the same thing happened. If somebody wanted to take flowers from ours too, nobody stopped, they would just take it. Doesn't mean that they emptied the entire bush, but they would take enough, leave enough behind, but they would take what they would need. So now though things have changed. When I came to America, and when I started going to see India, the next generation is much different than what we have. I don't see the children playing on the street, climbing all the trees, or I just don't, I don't know who my neighbors’ children are, they’re just inside all the time. It's a completely different new generation, that's growing up. I remember one incident in school. If you– if you know the Indian political history about the 1992 blasts and communal riots that happened in India, our school there was, and did not shut down, not even for a single day. It was safe for us to come to school, leave our home and be at the school as children. This–, there was no implications in most of the part of the city. There were some–, some parts of the city that was affected by the– the communal riots, but not the not the part of the city that we– we had school and where we lived. So, the school was run– it until then until, that 1992– it didn't matter that the school was owned by a Muslim family. Although it was a private family. Though it was a private school, it never occurred to us, that never bothered us. And that after the– the communal riots in 1992, we could see that a lot of perspective of the students had changed towards the management and towards the teachers, and a lot of children on both the sides–there were, there were, there were religion “A” students had had a lot issues and problems with teachers again of religion “A” ,and there were students of religion “B” complaining about teachers of religion “A”– they started looking at it as a communal or a religious thing that people– that complaining that the teachers are profiling or the students are misbehaving with a particular kind of a teacher. I remember there was one such, such a student at– there was a math teacher who was teaching us, he was a senior citizen elderly person, one of the oldest from the school's faculty, and there was a guy who just walked past for all the way from the end of the, from the end of the, what do you call, from the classroom to the teacher's desk, and actually, I wouldn't say slapped the teacher, but he actually hit the teacher on his neck. And– and he just walked past. It took a couple of minutes for the teacher to turn around and see who hit him. Nobody ever complained to the principal that such a thing happened in the classroom. But I don't want to say the religion of the student neither the religion of the teacher. But I, being a class head or the current student head in the classroom, I was keeping track of who is behaving what in the classroom. And I was surprised that one, that the riot outside can change the personality of the students, school-going students, in with– with the teachers and their relationship with the teachers.
[Editor’s Note: In 1992, a mob of people in a town called Ayodhya broke into the Babri Masjid and hammered in its walls and ceiling. The mosque was eventually lit on fire. That same week, riots erupted all over India in reponse to the mosque's burning, and about 900 people total were killed. Hindus believe that the site where the mosque stood was where Lord Ganesha was born, a fact that drove tensions between Muslims and Hindus in the town. Today, the Hindu-nationalist government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi proposes that a Hindu temple be built where the mosque once stood. Most Muslim and Hindu families live amicably side-by-side in Ayodhya today.]
[00:26:16]
Everything was a learning process. Everything was– we were discovering life outside the school. And there were different experiences by this time at the seventh-grade life for most of the female girls had changed because– because they– they by the seventh grade most of the girls had started it I think, their menstrual cycles. So, there was a complete 360-degree change in the personality of girls by that age. And I remember get– getting used to that change was not easy for most of the girls. And I have sensed that most of the girls, during that time, their– their attention span and their marks were, was affected. Girls that performed outstandingly in sixth grade didn't do as much as in the seventh grade, but then, then we all picked up by eighth grade again. So, it was, it was a, it took a, almost a year to get adjusted most of the girls, I have to say. I remember seventh grade there was a movie that was released where a college-going guy falls in love with a college-going girl. It's their first year of college. And most of the girls, women, boys were impressed, and they wanted to enact. So, there was a guy in my school who started expressing how madly he was in love with me. He was the prefect. Prefect means– you had the class managers who would were, who are responsible only for the, for the given classroom and the Prefects were if, like, if you have police and army, the police are responsible only for to city or the town, and the Army is responsible for the country borders, right? So, that's the difference between a class monitor and a prefect. So, I was a class manager and was just responsible for the class, but he was the prefect, which he was responsible for everything outside the classroom, the school premises, the corridors, outside the class, school. If anything happened, you go to him, to them, to the prefect, and they would help you with anything. But they also had authorities and responsibilities, like, you cannot come to a school with untied hair, you need two braids, with a center partition. If your, if your, if the girl’s hair is longer than shoulders, it has to be tied up. The braid has to be tied up. Boys cannot have hair longer than x inches of women. Women cannot put makeup and nail paint on. You cannot have your nails grown bigger than x. So, it was all army style rules and it was their responsibility to keep a check. You have to wear an ironed uniform. If you had crease on your uniform, the prefects would pull you out. So there were so many things that they would do. So, he would, he started approaching me saying, “I love you. Say, ‘yes.’” He would start giving me greeting cards gifts, he has written almost more than ten, fifteen poems. For years I kept, I accepted it. I never opened a single envelope; I don't know what was written in there yet. I remember being a prefect, prefect, he had privileges and he used it. I remember what he would do is, the building had the left, left-side staircase and the right-side staircase, or the old staircase and the new staircase, and he had his team, right, he was the head of the prefects. He had his team of boys and I was being trapped if I went to the restroom, if I came late, if I came early, which strike book is I was using the old or the new. And they would, they would stop me if, so, if he was, he was monitoring the old staircase and I used the new staircase I was stopped. Everybody else would be allowed, and they would say you cannot use this staircase, so you have to go to the other staircase, use that staircase, and then you can go to your classroom. And this was every day, every day, every day, every day. If he was not on the same staircase that I wanted to go up with, they made me change the staircases.
So and then I had to cross the corridors from one end to the other of the school, then go to the– to the other side of the staircase and then go to the school, and I was al– and I was always late because I had, they would stop me. And if when they stopped me, I went to the staircase where he was monitoring, then he would stop me, he wanted to speak to me, he wouldn't let me go to the classroom on time. So it happened, so it happened, that it became an everyday thing but that I am the class monitor, I had certain things to do before the teacher comes, and if I'm going to be delayed by these this team of his every day, I couldn't reach, I was, the teacher was already there when I went into the classroom, so I was so late. I was in the school premises, I was just one minute away from the classroom, but it took me at least ten to fifteen minutes every day. So, I– I couldn't finish the responsibilities. I had– I had to clean the blackboard, keep the chalks clean, and keep the dusters ready, clean the teacher’s desk, keep the– her files ready, take the attendance of the students. So these were a couple of things that I had a responsibility as a head class monitor to, and everybody did, all the monitors did it. So I couldn't do it, teacher had to do it for herself, I don't know why the– the teacher never complained or yelled at me. And whatever I do, I'm done, has– he has even entered the teachers with him. Is the teacher, has the, is the teacher already aware of what his intentions are? Like, she is she playing part of along with him? Why isn't the teacher not yelling at me? She never complained.
[00:33:10]
But anyways, so these are a couple of things that happened, and I know he used a, you do– you have a– he used a knife or a cutter to cut his veins because okay. And then he wrote, he wrote my name on his arm in the, all five letters. And then he had to probably had to be hospitalized because he was bleeding. He was overly bleeding, then it, he had to, I don't know what happened. And only I know when he cut his vein, and only when he wrote his name and he started bleeding profusely, his sister younger sister reacted, and the way she talked to me or treated me or behaved with me, I knew I was in trouble, but I didn't know what. Only then his– his mom's sister's son was my friend, was in my classroom, and he came and told me that this is what he did and everybody in the family’s angry. I said I did not ask him, but he says that he is only trying to prove you how much he loves you, and the more you say no the more he's going to try to make you believe how much he loves you, and he's trying to find more ways to express it. I said, I don't understand it this, because for me, my dad has told me what you see in the movies is only for entertainment, for not real life, and I trust my dad. So, for me to connect it in real life, that is actually happening to me, for me, I don't know how to react, because in the movies every time the– the– the actress or the heroine says no, that's how the movies are. So anyways, so I also, then I told my dad. He started, then he started giving me greetings, he started sending me flowers, and chocolates, and poems, and if I reject it that they would open my backpack and stuff it into the backpack, and I was like, okay. So, I would go home and I would wait till my mom and dad, because mom is, I told her mom, once that something like, this is happening, she said, you are at fault. I said, “What did I do?” “You must be doing something to attract men towards you?” I said, “Okay, wait, what did I do?” So, I– I was like, I'm wearing a school uniform, I'm not doing anything that is different. I– I don't put makeup on, I don't do nothing. So, what is it that is attracting? So, I then I just shared with my dad, is my dad said it's okay, don't worry, this is the age. My dad got married at this age. Because the law has changed, the culture has changed, the society has changed, marriages and relationships have been pushed to ten years ahead, so you don't have to worry, it's normal. This is how it used to be fifty years ago, so it's not you don't have to blame or anybody, not him not you. I said, okay, so what do I do? So, my dad asked, “Do you like him?” I said, “What do you mean?” “I can go and speak to his dad.” And I– I was like, I’m in the seventh grade again. I said– I just like, and I'm like, for me I didn't realize what the relations are, what it means to be husband and wife or what it means to be a girlfriend, a boyfriend. So I was in denial, I will like, “No, no.” So, I my dad opened all the greetings heated, all the poems and he said, “He's a nice guy and he knows how to express himself and I'm willing to go and speak to his dad if you want me to.” And I said, “No, I don't know.” And I wasn't and denying all relationships. And he, my dad said, “Whenever you're ready, tell me, I can go and speak to his dad.” And I said, no, it's becoming too much for me. I can't, I want to concentrate. At that point I wanted to be a pilot, and my mom wanted me to be an air hostess. So that was a huge– my mom wanted me to be an air hostess and I wanted to be a pilot, so this was the disconnect and I was ended up being none, but I'm saying, this was the disconnect about what I wanted to be and what my mom thought I am good at. So, and the, anyway, so she was the one who forced me not to go for engineering, and I went I did something else. But I kept coming back to school. So, then there was this behavior was one person. They were at least more than twenty-five boys that started doing the similar thing by eighth grade. In seventh grade, finally, I said, “Dad, I need your help.” And my dad thought, “okay, so okay, I will find his dad's number and we, I'll go and speak to him.” “No, you come to my school and complain to the principal that he is bothering me.” And my dad, “Are you sure?” So, I said, yes. So, he came, my dad came and my dad spoke to the principal. The principal called me and him the office, and she had a word with both of us together and she said, “You tell him that you are not interested in front of me, and he has to honor it.” And then I said it, when I said it first time I saw tears in his eyes, I was like, what did I do wrong? I was, that took– I was– I felt sad inside me myself. When I saw that, when he walked sad when he left, he was, he went to– to one building, I went to the other building, and then the next day it stopped, and nothing happened after that. There was no changing the staircase was, there was no stuffing the greetings and flowers in the bag, it was nothing. He, his friends, his friends would turn his my face so when they saw me in the building and they were, I was saw them fuming with anger against me. So I'm that would happen again, the same thing picked up the next year in eighth grade. But it was not one person, it was more than twenty-five. And I'm, and I would remember there was one day, one particular day, there was more than eleven or fifteen guys standing in line, in one line, one after the other as if they are standing in a queue, and asking me the same question, and I didn't know whom to a say yes to. I just walked past, and I just didn't say anything. And I, the whole corridor was taken by those guys. I still don't know what they wanted, but I know that I just said no and I just walked past and went into the classroom. In eighth grade, I don't know what happened. We got the whole classroom, but I think they broke the green board, or they were broke the light, one of the, one of the things. I want to believe, they broke the green board, and nobody was willing to come forward and accept that they did it, or nobody took any names. I was not in the classroom, and being a class monitor I should have known who it did, but I didn't.
[00:40:25]
So, the anything happened in the classroom, the principal calls you to come in. So, I was called, and I said, “Well, I was out for lunch, I was not in the classroom, I have no idea, and nobody is willing to say anything.” So, she gave me two days. She said, “You were the one until you find out. Ask and then tell me.” And I said, okay. So she, and then nobody knew. I said, I went back to her, and I said, “No, no, nobody's willing to speak anything about it”. And I knew there were– It was the boys. They were playing. They were– they normally would take the remaining leftover pieces of the chalk, and they would throw it at each other as pellets, and that was their game in the afternoon. So, somebody probably picked up the duster instead of the leftover pieces of chalk and when they threw it, it went and broke the green board. So, I know they were, the principal wanted that whoever broke it pay for it, but nobody came forward. So, the entire class of 65, 70 students were made to sit in a veranda for one month. Our– there was an old blackboard or that was put up for us on the– on the– in the veranda, and we were out there as a punishment. When it started raining, they moved us into a shade. That's it. It was open from two sides and close from two sides. There was no doors and windows, and there was a roof so that we don't get wet. So more than thirty days, we were outside as a punishment. “You tell me the name, and you go back to your classroom.” And nobody spoke anything. And because I went to the class, the principal's office, and after that it came as a punishment. People thought that I went and told something against the entire class and that's why they got the punishment, but I didn't take a single name. If I would have taken one name and blamed one, whether true or false, it would have been easy. But I didn't know, I didn't take anybody's name. So, the entire class even I had to sit with them on in the veranda. And, and then the boy– the worst part was and the entire school– there was a new building on the left and there was an old building on the right, and we were sitting right in the middle of between, between the two buildings, right in front of the– the principles of cabin and the teacher, the students, who have to come in the class school or go out of the school, have to pass the veranda, right? And then you– and when– the when the nursery and the local children asked, “Why are you sitting here?” They started laughing at us. Okay, so the fifth graders laughed at us, and the tenth graders laughed at us. In the history– in the history of the school, it was just our classroom. So, giving, getting a punishment sitting in a veranda for more than thirty days and the whole school is laughing at us. I know that one of the teachers would come and say, “I'm going to tell the entire school while you are sitting here, and I'm going to make sure they laugh at you.” I had– there was a teacher who said that to us. So, it was like, we were growing up at eighth grade, we are maturing, and then somebody is mocking us so bad. It was very embarrassing. So, the end of the story, we went back to the classroom, everything’s becoming normal. But again, this was happening on my end. I will I had an image of this tricked senior, and I had a younger sister in the school, so she had the leverage that, Ooh, she's Sajel’s sister.” A hundred things happen to her easily, or she was excuse for thousand things, just because she’s [Redacted]’s sister. So, at one point she liked it, she liked it, like, and she used it, but then at one point you stop liking it. “I want my own identity,” she said. So that was obvious. That's okay. But, so the eighth grade, this was happening. And I remember more things is a phone calls. Somebody, there is a school diary, a school gives you a diary, and in that you have, and in that you have to write your name, your address phone number, emergency contact information. And there is a prayer that you sing in the at the beginning of the school, so all those prayers are printed on the diary and then there is an empty space to write. So, what, what is your homework or do or what is when your class information, whatever it is, you have a class test or you have that the whole week's plan, and you have to write it down because that every teacher will give you a plan or homework to follow for the next entire week. So, you have to write it down completed, right? And so, you have everybody has a diary. So, my diary went missing in eighth grade, which had the phone number on it. Two days back, the diary was back in my bag. So, somebody in the afternoon, in the lunch break touched my backpack, took away my diary, and brought it back and the two days later, put it back. So, they had my whole address, my dad's full name, my dad's office phone number and my residence phone number. Whoever had it. So, the phone calls come. “Can we talk to [Redacted]?” And my mom is saying, “Who are you?” “I'm her friend.” “What– which friend? Who, I don't know you. You tell me your name.” The phone is hung up. Yes, I pick up the phone. “Hi, [Redacted].” Yes, and then the phone is hung. Okay, so my mom– this is like the school, the school got over at 3:30. I reached home at 3:55 or maybe 4:00. The phone call starts at 4:00 or 5:00. They know I am home. One or two minutes of difference, because if I'm entering the door I will it's obvious I will pick up the phone. If I am at outside the door, already in the bedroom, my mom is going to pick up the phone. So, they had that timing of two minutes. I don't know who it was. I had no idea who it was, and I've every time I picked up the phone, they would say, “Oh she heard my– I heard her voice. I got to hear her voice.” And that they be enough. It was nothing beyond it, so I don't know who it was, nobody ever knew because during those times there was no call caller IDs. So anyways this happened for the whole entire one and a half years. And I remember then there were people who would follow me home. There was everybody had that– all these boys had made up a routine. So, who does what, I knew who was doing going to be where. So there would be one person at this corner, looking at me and just looking at me. After that, I passed then the corner, he would go. There was no communication. Nothing. There was one guy who would come 6:30 to quarter of seven every day. Make three rounds of my house and Society Circle, do nothing, ring his cycle bell, and then go. If he, if I was out, he would see me, nothing, than go, that's it. There was other, there was another guy who would come in the lunch break with his three other friends. Stand outside the classroom, stare at me. After the– after the class of the school, after the lunch break bell would go on, he would go back to his classroom. I'm like, “Why are you here in my, in my corridors?” “You know he's here only just to see you.” I said, “What am I supposed to say?” So, there was another guy– so these, this was a one-and-a-half-year routine every day, and I'm like, okay, so every day, I knew at four or five, there would be a phone call. Every day at 6:05, I know there would be a phone call. I don't know who these people were.
[00:49:06]
Then the other day– so the– the laundry, the laundry man– somebody found out who the laundry man was. So they– they– they started paying him and they were only love letters in my school uniform. That went to the laundry, when he would return it, it would come back with a love letter in the pocket in the school uniform pocket. So, when I wore the school uniform, I had a love letter in there. Then, without any– without any names. So, that stopped but something new started. The laundry man stopped taking money from these kids, boys, and stopped sending their love letters, but instead, he started sending his love letters. It's in there. So I'm like, okay you gave him the idea and now there's another guy doing it, right? So there was five dollar, five rupee bills, one rupee bill, ten rupee bills, my name and his name written on one side. On the other side, there was a love letters, small [unclear]. It's the pink, pink papers, and yellow papers, and a white papers and small, small poems written on it. And I'm like, okay, so I complained I said, “Papa, this was how he was probably taking money from the school, or some boys. And he was sending somebody else's messages. Now, he's doing it on his account, and so, I have, can we change the laundromat?” He said, “No, we hired, we hired him because he lost his father, and he said he couldn't complete his education. So, he left his school and he's doing it for his mom, and his younger brother. I will talk to his mom because his mom came asking for help, so a group, a group of families said that we will give you our clothes to iron and you start the business. So, they set up the business for them and so we said we don't want to take over their income.” So, I said, “but this is not acceptable.” But then my dad, being the kind of dad he is, he calls his mom, he called him, and he said,” Why are you doing this? You know, you have an agenda to take care of your mom and your younger brother, so we are all helping you here. And why are you doing this?” So, his mom, his mom started beating him up in front of me, and my mom, my dad, and my dad said, “Don't beat him, he's a grown-up boy. It's not nice to beat him.” So, he said “I want you, I want your commitment that you're not going to do this again. Not your messages, but nobody else is messages.” And he said, yes. When he said yes, my dad asked me a question, again, the same question that he has done for the other guy, “Do you like him?” I said, “No, dad, I'm not considering any of that thought.” “See, she doesn't like you. You have any questions for her?” He said, “No.” So then they go, and business as usual. It stopped for a couple of months, and then he started sending messages, his own messages again. And then my dad said, “Okay, we will change it.” We give him a one month’s notice so that he doesn't go out of income immediately but starting then we will stop. And then we found another laundry man. So, but those boys found that the new laundry guy also. So anyway, so this continues this. So, so in the eighth grade they decided they had to go watch a movie. And I want to believe it was eighth and not tenth grade, but I think it was eighth grade. So it, they decided we want to go watch a movie. And this was the first time girls and boys were supposed to go and see some romantic movie, and the boys had decided to which girl is going to sit next to which boy. And my name was there on the list. And they probably had a lot of argument who gets the seat next to me. So, I'm like, I had seen the movie and it was a murder– I don't know what to call– it's a thriller romance, whatever it was, so there was, there was murder, there was action fight, and blah blah blah. So, and, and there was just like, this one boy gets a lot, falls in love with and girl who's engaged to an army man. And– and he tries to harm the army man to get to the girl, is the story. What is it called? A commoner, or a civilian fall in love with an army man’s girlfriend, and engaged, of who they both are engaged and getting ready to marry, and he falls in love with her. And he tries to harm her, harm him, have him killed so that he could get hurt. That's the story. So, I saw this with my dad. And this at the reality with my family is my dad would go and watch a movie first, probably, and then decide if he wanted to go take us for the movie. And then watching movie was a family thing, mom, dad– whatever kind of movie does– whether it is Titanic or anything else, I watch it with my dad. So it was, he would decide what movies we would watch, and he would go buy the tickets. And we knew this week, or this Saturday, we are going and watching the movies. So, all the movies were always with him. He worked with a company; a company called Videocon. And it's like Panasonic, is it just sells electronics, but it's Indian company and he was a branch head, not a sorry, he was Head of Department accounts, for my district, for our district. So, so bringing a home VCRs and buying the cassettes and whirring, renting cassettes, and watching movies was a very common thing. So when they wanted us to watch this very same movie, again, I said, no. I'm scared, I don't watch that movie, was my thought process there. And they said, “No, you don't have to worry about the movie, the tickets, somebody else already has what your tickets, you just have to go and watch the movie.” I said, “I don't want to watch that movie, I don't like it. I'm scared to watch the movie again.” I was, I was already holding my dad's whole hand when I was watching that movie, with all that fighting and kill blood. So they got upset that I said no for the movie, it went to an extent that they influenced a teacher, a male teacher in the school, and they, he failed me. He failed me for two marks. I said, “The answer is correct, why did you give it to me wrong?” His answer was, “Are you going for the movie this weekend?” I said, “What do you mean?” “If you go to the movie on this weekend, on Monday I will give you the two marks,” he says. I said, “I'm not going,” and I feel I had a red mark on my card. So, I was furious, I was furious with the, this math teacher. And I said, my answer is right. When, when I was, when they reached out to me saying there is a movie, we are plan making plans for the movie, they, the whole school knew it, right? What was happening in the boy’s side, on the side, on the boy’s side. Who, who got to the, the– I still don't know who got my ticket for and who was going to be sitting next to me. But there was an unknown call that came at 3:45, they knew I was not home, and this I knew who it was. So, this guy calls my mom and say, “Auntie, [Redacted]– don't send [Redacted] to the movie because the guys are planning something different.” And my mom starts hitting me as soon as I go home. I said, “What happened?” “What, what plans have you made with the boys?” I said, “I've not made any plans.” “Who called me?” “Somebody calling me saying that you have made some plans with the boys.” I thought I didn't make any plans with the boys. So I was in trouble that. So finally, I didn't go, I told my dad, I'm not going to the movies. I told, this is what happened between the me and teacher and I'm not going, so I'm failed. This math is correct, but he failed me. He, my dad said, “Why do you need two marks to pass?” My dad was angry. I said, “You needed two marks to pass.” “Why did you score so less? You should, if you should have scored another that, two months should not have made any difference.” And I said, “Sorry, I'll work harder on it again.” And I think it was geography, I believe, he fails me. So, my dad says, “Who fails in geography? So, and how did you get only?” I mean, the out of twenty-five, the passing was nine, so he gave me seven. My dad said– my dad said, “Why did you not have twenty or twenty-two? Why did that two marks bother? I mean matter.” So I said, “Yeah, my mistake. I will work hard.” So, the next time I worked I got twenty-three and I was happy. “Yeah, if you had got twenty-three in last time, I didn't matter if you lost two more marks and got just twenty-one, you wouldn't have just failed.” I said, “yeah, I know, I understand.” So, so I didn't go to the movie. I probably, I don't know if it was another movie, I might have gone. I don't know what it was. But when it was too many, too complications. So I don't know what. The only reason I did not go was because there was too much of blood and fight in the movie anyway, so that happened.
[00:59:14]
I want to share one more thing. In this fourth grade or probably fifth, I think it was fourth grade, for the first time when we had the, the monthly test in school we were paired with seniors. So when you go in for the examination it for this, in the school, for the examination, in the examination hall, you wouldn't be sitting in your classroom, you would go someplace else and right in somebody else's classroom and write your exams. And more importantly, a senior would be with you on the same desk. So, a fourth year could be paired with a ninth year– that fourth grade would be paired with enough ninth grade, and they would give you an exam papers and both of you are sitting on the same paper table and in the exams, and so there is no copy. So then in fourth grade that was the first time we were exposed to a senior sitting to next to us and watch them write exam, right? Ninety percent of the seniors were copying. So, somebody's passing the answer sheet, somebody's writing the answer for you, and giving back the answer sheet and or right, they had chips with them, and they would write it down and then forward it to somebody else. And by fourth grade, after the giving three exams, we knew who– the for the whole year, we would have the same senior sitting next to you. So, we knew who our senior is, who we knew who, our who's what, how he writes his paper. And for a fourth grader exposed to the senior for the first time giving exam, we thought this is how the exams had to be written. So, I spoke to back one of my friends. I said, “We have to grow up.” She said, “Yeah, I was also thinking the same thing.” So, the next exam day, I take a piece of paper I did “hi, hello, how are you?” for the piece of paper and I sneak it to her. So we tried– we don’t know what the– what was written on those sheets of paper the seniors had, right? So we had no idea what's written there. So, we just thought we have to, because we– it's a pin drop silence exam, so we just write it on the paper. So, I “hi, hello, how are you?” This is– this is my first chat. I passed it to my friend. First, I wrote the first chat, and I passed it on to her saying, “Hi, hello, how are you?” And she said, “I'm fine. How is your– How are you doing?” And like, I say, we smile and giggle amongst each other. That was– that's how we started copying, that was the first attempt of copy. And then this happened, right? So, from fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, we are watching the seniors do the same thing. By seventh grade, we knew we also had to do the same thing, because that's what the seniors were doing. Come ninth grade, somebody got caught, caught seventh, ninth grade somebody got caught and that was– it was the first time it was an open eye opener that it's a wrong thing to do. Otherwise, we would just be imitating our seniors because they were doing it and nobody was saying anything. They were not getting caught, the teachers never complained. I mean, it never happened in front of the teacher. The teacher would go out, or they were talking with somebody in the corridor. So, the behind the teachers back that seniors were doing this is. So, for us, watching it constantly to happen, and subconsciously we thought it is the thing to do. So, there was no reason for us to copy, its, but it just affected, we had a strong influence on at a young age and it continued, it continued until college. But when I came to America, I see the open book, reference book style exams in India. It's not, you cannot have it. You have to by heart. There's no, your, your answers have to be written on sheets in paragraphs, and multiple sheets. It's not a multiple-choice-option exam or it is not an– you have to write theory and thesis without any references you have to, you have to by heart it, and you have to write it, and you have to own your marks. So– so that was happening through all throughout my college, and started in fourth grade with that small hello chat.
[01:03:42]
So apart from that, the tenth grade, ninth grade, with all that was happening in the ninth grade, I figured out, because I have long hair, I probably look pretty and that's why the boys are doing this to me, because I'm not doing anything else to attract them intentionally. So, there was a book in– in probably the fifth or the sixth grade, or maybe for the grade, that was called Gul Mohar, it was an English reading book Gul Mohar. It was an English reading book apart from– So we had to– there were stories and then there we had to write comprehensions and fill in the blanks, and we had to write the different, or we had to do, different grammar or give different grammar tests, on those stories. So there was a story about Maggie who cuts her own hair and looks the ugliest. So that I– I remember that story, you know, and I said, let me look ugly. And I went to the parlor without my dad's permission, because take– taking the man’s permission to cover haircut or do anything drastically different is expected, you ask your brother, husband, or father permission for– for a complete change or a drastic change.
So, I took my mom and I said, “Okay, let's go, I need a haircut.” When I went there, I told her I want it all gone. My hair went below my– below my, I would say they were almost maybe two foot long, maybe two, two and a half foot long, and I had them below shorter than my shoulders. I said something new had come up with school, something, something called mushroom cut, and she messed it up. Big time. I thought was it would come up decent, but she really messed it up. And when I went to the school that next– when I came home, my dad is just said, “My mom had long hair. I associated your long hair with my mom. I lost my mom at an early age of 8 or 10. And I look forward, I look at you as my mom, as my mom and what have you done?” And it was all gone. There was no, it was not coming back. He didn't speak to me for more than three to six months. He just would avoid me. The next day I go to school and people looked at me turned around, “Who is she?” And you won't believe, they had anger inside. “Why the hell did you cut your hair?” And I felt relieved, you won't believe how relieved I felt ninth grade. Tenth grade it started again because the hair grew long again so maybe whatever it is– So ninth grade was a breather, ninth grade was a breather, and I had started going to a class that was teaching a, was a private class of teaching algebra geometry. And I needed that because the teachers are the teacher, I told you, right? I was not comfortable concentrating and learning from him after what he did with my marks. So, I had to go out and pay for private tuition and attend those classes twice or thrice a week, and that helped. And so he was, he was a strict person. He if, he saw or if he came to know that boys and girls are doing something that you're not supposed to do at this age, other than studies, he would go to their home and, and in front of their parents, he would yell at them that your son is doing this with that girl there, and he is not studying, and this is how this is how low marks he got. I mean, he would actually tell “Look, your son got this so low, such less marks because he was doing so and so things and he's not considering.” So, people who are students were scared. If there was respect, love, affection for this prayer of for the for the teacher but there was fear. You, you never know when he will shame you in front of your parents. So that was one. By tenth grade, another thing had happened: somebody from another city got transferred to our city as a branch manager in a bank I believe, and so that his two kids came to our school. So the daughter was a tenth grader and the son was a fifth grader. And when she came, as a new, new hire, or as a new admission, they gave, they assigned her to our classroom out of the three classrooms. And there were clearly three groups in the– in the classroom. One was mine, when I was the leader and there were boys and girls in my team. There was another team who more liberal and already drawn across to the– the lines of kissing and going to movies and everything else. And there was another, it was based on religious group. So, so these three groups– and they were small, teeny tiny groups of maybe two friends or friends together– but the majority was three of those. So, everybody wanted her to be in their team and their group and I said, “Come here, there is a space next to my– my desk is empty. You can, if you want, you can come sit next to me.” So, she chose to accept and to come. And then I know somebody, in front of the teacher, the other group did like this to me, you know, as if they lost a teammate. So they were angry. I mean, it was obvious they try as if they wanted to smack me over, they had this. So, I was like okay, she chose I didn't force– there was, you were, if she– if she would have come and sat with your accepted your invitation, she would have to share one table or one desk with three people. I was the one with an empty desk, she would have come inside next to me. So she came, she became a good friend. And the boys from the other team were trying to get her to their team. I said, “You're free to go.” And she said, “I'm not interested. I came here to study, not this.” So I became the bad person because I was protecting her, right? So now these boys are friends, they are not enemies, but then is just they have different expectations and different– they are growing faster or maturing faster than we were. Our– we want our agenda, our studies, focus. You wanted to go somewhere and to not be with the boys. So that was different.
[01:11:06]
So, so she became, so this girl complained to home that these boys are pestering her. So, her brother from the fifth grade– after two months, it would they were only in the school only for two months, okay? And we are here for sixteen years in the same school know each other for sixteen years– so this two-month kid in the school comes with four more boys from the classroom and telling that some seniors are pestering his sister in the classroom. So, these four boys, teenage juniors, come to our classroom. They intended, with the intent to smack the seniors, okay? So now they come to the floor. They are all charged up to beat the seniors, okay? And they come to the floor, the rest of three or four see the seniors, our, my class boys. They look at them, and they said, “You called us to beat them?” And they ran, they just ran from the, from the floor, they went back to the classroom. He was there alone. So these seniors, they picked him up. He was a fifth grader, so two of them picked him up on both sides and brought him inside the classroom. They put– they put him on the teacher's desk. They have flat, pull up his pants down. Okay, now, this was a big thing, and I think they beat him, smacked him. So, you said, “Ggo tell your dad what the guys said probably something like this on your terms.” So, this guy, he went home, he complained about what happened. His dad came complained that they abused his child son, and the teacher and the– the, that his pants were pulled down. And the vice president came, vice principal came in the classroom as usual. If she's angry, she's–all she would say is, “you scoundrels, what did you do again? Okay, what did you do again?” So, she came in the class yelling at everybody, “Give me the names.” And now I was in the classroom by default, it had to me whether I am or not. I had to be the class monitor, so because I– I've been at this for more than eight years, right? And it was the 10th grade. So, “So, [Redacted], tell me what happened? Who did it?” I said “I don't know,” and I knew it, but I didn't know whether I should say it or not. So, I said okay, so come and meet the principal in the office. So, I walk with her to the principal's office and, “Give me a name, [Redacted], don't protect your friends.” And I said, “Give me some time, I'll find out.” I had to figure out what to say, because it was tenth grade. There was more to the table. The reality was every school has permission, needs a permission from the state government or the Board of Education to, only for a certain number of students that appear for the tenth grade, because it is a board exam. And we knew that our school had more students studying then the– than the number that was approved for our school to appear for the board exam, which means the teachers, and the staff, and the staff, and the management were looking for picking students to get them out of the school and so that they can fit the number and they will looking to investigate students and reasons to find students, and they were looking for students to appear as an external student means that I study on my own, I'm not part of this school, but I use the school's name to give the exam of for the tenth board. So instead of appearing at the schools for as a full-time student of the school, I do it as an autonomous student of the school, and I was part of the discussion. So, I knew if I take the names, they will be the first on the list, and I didn't want it to take their names. I was protecting my friends. So, I said I need time. She said, “I– I give you no more than one day.” And this is a big thing. And so, I come back and I'm like, what, I asked around, who was there, and I got two names. And I'm like, okay they surely, they surely will be rusticated with the past records that they have. So, I looked around, spoke to a few, and then next day I said, “Okay, I'm ready to give the names.” And I gave the names of the students that were not notorious. Two of them were involved, two of them were not involved. I'm sorry I did that, but they were sent home for three days and everything was shut. They came back as normal, nothing happened. But I just crossed my fingers that nobody gets in trouble. Because I didn't want it to lose my friends, I didn't want it to ruin their careers or their school history, you know, once it's gone in blacklisted it, it's hard to get it out. So, nobody was rusticated. Nobody was asked to appear autonomous. Everybody got approved for their exams as part of for the board exams and it worked. I took my chance, but it worked. So, I know a lot of friends still have anger against me for doing that, but I'm, in my mind I was only trying to save everybody. Because we had already experienced eighth grade right, the veranda classroom, so in the seventh grade, we had until seventh grade, we had four divisions like grade division were A, B, C and D, and each class had almost seventy students. By 10th grade, they had to divide it into three grades, A, B, and C. And they had to pull the numbers down. So, every year they would pull down the numbers by pulling out the students who performed less or who students who are notorious. And I have seen from seventh grade to tenth grade I lose my friends and lose my classmates. At seventh grade people were asked that, “You have failed twice. We don't want you in the seventh grade. Stay home for a year, study, and give the board exam autonomous.” So, they never studied ninth and tenth, they only studied for eighth and ninth. They never studied. They just went to do the board exam for the tenth because they were, they failed in second and first grades or probably whatever at their a when they were struggling with. So if it didn't fit your age, if you're not– if you're more than sixteen years old for the 10th grade, they would pull you out. So anyway, so a lot of things happened, and so I went to college– let me check if I forget something important for school times.
[01:18:56]
Yeah, I lost my mom's brother if you remember I shared it last time for cancer. He was diagnosed with blood cancer at the age of sixteen. He was giving his tenth board exams, and in the middle of the class exam he started throwing up blood and he was moved to Bombay. He was diagnosed with blood cancer, was given maybe six weeks or six days, something like that, and he held up until maybe six months and then he held on ‘til six years, but then he gave up after the blood transfusion. I think it was the– the most wrong decision for his treatment was the blood transfusion. He was still doing fine without the transfusion, but the transfusion, I think they messed it up and he couldn't take it anymore. So anyway, so that was done and so he was like a brother, elder brother to me more than an uncle, because we only were five years apart, and I had a special relationship with him anyway. So, moving back to India, every summer vacation, I went and stayed with my Nana's house. That's when, we don't, in Indian culture, during those, my generations, we didn't, there was no summer camps. All children went to the Nana's place for two months. Your food, your– for your extracurricular activities, your medical expenses, everything is your Nana's responsibility for two months. You just go with there, a bag of clothes, that's it. So, every, now everybody was called. So, we had a friend, a bunch of friends, in the Nana's house because the neighbors’ grandkids came too. So, the whole– the entire community was– was a place like that. So when we went to the Nana's house, we had new set of friends that we made only for two months during the whole year, and came from various parts of the country because their mothers are were married off to different places, and then they would send their children back to their parents’ house for two months. Because you stay with your dad's family for the whole year, and then you stay with your mom's family during the summer vacation. It was a very common thing. Even now, many, many people do it, but it's not as common as it used to be earlier. So at Nana's house, many were sent to military school for two months. I didn’t, and I said, “I'm not waking up at 5:00. There is no way.” They said, I was told, “You will learn horse-riding, you learn swimming, you will learn mountaineering, you will learn how to show– use a rifle. Everything.” I said, “I am not waking up at 5:00.” I repeated that. I can learn everything during the day, but not, not by waking up at 5:00. I said I'm not going there. So it was a completely different life at Nana's place. There was no restrictions. The only restriction is you have to be back before 8:00, or you have to be indoors in somebody's house after 7:00, you cannot be on the streets doing blah-blah because it's not a safe, as I told you, it's a very common thing. It's a village snakes and stuff, insects. And late-night, you don't want to be too out in the dark. Many things, you know. It's happy hours after 7:00, so you don't want to encounter with the drunken men on the street. Many things, you are women, young children, young girls. So if as long as you're in somebody's house, watching TV playing cards and the everybody knows where you are, that's fine. So we, what we would do is have a dinner and then we would sit and play in some somebody's house. And our daytime games used to be– my grandfather was a trader. It was like a mini-Costco, so he would have gunny bags full of grains. In them we go down and climbing those, being on top of gunny bags, hiding on those gunny bags, was one of the games.
[00:01:23:18]
Our houses were connected. It was like a rowhouse, what we call as townhouses, and the gardens were connected, the houses were connected, the shops are connected, so running around from one place to another, and from one house to another, and jumping from the roof, off one roof to the other, was a very common game. Like there was no fear of falling down or hurting or harming. Nobody hurt ever. Nobody fell down ever. It was just, It was just, we never thought it was taking risk. Today if my children do that, I know I will be scared, but my parents, they didn't even bother or care if you're jumping up from one terrace to other, or somebody's roof to other roof. I mean, it was part of everyday, like, day-to-day game, it didn't matter, but probably because they did it too. My father was born in an out-of-grid town, which had all not more than thirty houses. And his games were different. So for him it– he was, he never thought anything beyond, right? So for him, “Yeah, my daughter is doing the same thing, what I did before.” Me? If my son goes and climbs on the same hard roof that I climbed and jumped on, I probably will be terrified. Anyway, so I had those different set of friends, the friends who, and our mothers were friends, because they were all neighbors, they went to the same school and they studied in the world, same age, and all the daughters, children would come to the Nana's house, right? So we all became friends. So, the town that I went to is the same town where my mom's mom was born, where my dad's mom was born, where my in-laws belong, ex-husband belongs to. So it's a town that ninety percent of the family, somebody is related to that town if in the families that we belong to. Somebody has to come from that town, from someplace at this time or the other. So, and, this– this place is more not known because of the floods it gets every year. I don't know, they haven't, in the last more than fifty years, they have not yet figured out how to solve the flood situation, but when it floods, it's like fourteen feet to fifteen feet of water in the entire term. And there are two rivers that meet in the town. And the– the town is a is– is– is– it's a piece of land between two rivers. So, it's flooding from both the sides. And it's crazy. I don't know how they don't know. I don't know how the government, or the people still haven't found a solution to this. Only one solution was given by a politician that emptied the entire town and we will relocate you to a completely new land and people didn't, it was a good suggestion, it's just that people didn't respect and trust the politician. He will take our land, but we don't know if he will give it to us, give a new place to us, so people didn't take that offer. But fourteen and fifteen feet of water is a pretty common thing every year. And the whole entire first floor goes under the water. Everybody shops and goes down under the water. It's a common, very common thing, very, very common thing. So, I have seen that kind of flood only once.
[01:27:11]
But anyways, so now coming back to the city, so here I go past my ninth and tenth grade– and more thing in the tenth grade, so as I said that there was four grades until the seventh and then there were only three grades, three divisions aren't after eighth and ninth and tenth, so the students were mixed up a between the from three, from four to three, right? So, they were new to students in the classroom. So, there was a group of that will that we knew that came from the same division, and they were clubbed into the same divisions, right? So we were trying to get to know each other, understand each other, and there was a tug of war of who is the leader. By default, I don't know why, I was the leader again for the next three years. And my teammates, or my students from my classroom would happy that I made it and not, and they didn't make it. Um, that invited rivalry. That invited unity and rivalry. And in ninth grade, I gave up my responsibility. I said, maybe you take it, I don't want it. I had already cut my hair, I decided not to stand in front of the classroom for the whole day and I said, you take it. So, it was passed on to somebody else and “I cannot do it” was the answer. So, it came back to me the tenth grade again. So, we– there was an incident that happened, I was in the restroom, ladies’ room, I was coming back, and while walking past, while walking past from the ladies room to the classroom, but is a men's, men's restroom in between. The restrooms didn't have doors. It was just an open restroom. There was with one toilet and an open urinal in there. There were two boys from my classroom playing in the bathroom while peeing, trying to tinkle on each other. Okay, so now this is tenth grade on, or probably eighth grade, one of the two because the classroom, it was the same classroom, so I don't know if or whether it was the eight of the ten. So now this guy comes, they saw me. And I saw them, right, and they’re afraid that I would want tell the entire classroom. So now they decided to shame me before I could shame them, and they were successful in doing that. They would actually went and told the classroom, the first guy comes and says, “I want to tell you something private. I'm I have some concerns.” So now I'm the class monitor. I am thinking as a class monitor that he's just, he's a student, he needs my help, and he has some concerns, and he wants to share and was asking probability for some help or guidance. So I said, okay so he said, “I cannot speak to you in front of the class. Can we meet after the, can you stay for some time after the school?” I said “Sure, why not?” Because that was my, it's part of my job to do. I said sure. So I stay back up with the school. I told the rickshaw wallah that, “[unclear], just wait for ten minutes, I'm coming.” And so, he tells me and he says, “Not here, I want to speak to you in a little inside.” I said, “This is a classroom, it's an empty classroom. There is nobody here to hear you. Tell me what's happening?” So, he said, “No, come with me, I have to tell you something.” So, he takes me down the staircase to the corner classroom on the backside of the school, like a shade of classroom, which had only. So, he tells people in the school think– in the classroom think that, “You and I– I have something going on between both of them, both of each other, and I don't want to malign your image.” So, I said, “Wait a minute, who are you by the way? You are in my classroom; I don't even know your name. I just know you by face.” And because he was he– he was he came to the classroom from another class. He was not my usual student. So, I thought, “I don't know your name. Can you please tell me your name?” So he told me his name and I said, “Which division were you?” And before he came to this class recently was in XYZ classroom. So, I said, “Okay, so I haven't don't remember speaking to you before. There was no interaction with you and me were before and if you think some people think so, give me the name of the students who think so.” So, he said, “No, I cannot give it to you.” And I said, “Okay.” I had figured it out because I was, well, you understand Indian men and it's not a new thing, right? So, I said, “Okay, okay.” So, I left. The next morning, the classroom is talking that [Redacted] and him met in the back of the classroom in the back of the school after school and they both did something together. So, this reached the teacher, the teacher asked me, “What did you do with him?” I said, “He came to complain that he has some concerns. So, because I being a monitor, he wanted to discuss with me.” So, she said, “It didn't reach me like this.” I said, “I know.” So now I said, “Okay then you can ask around in the classroom.” So, in front of the entire class, so she asks. The second guy who was with him in the toilet stood up and said, “Yes, ma'am, they both met, and they did something after the school.” Those two boys teamed up to get me in trouble, just to, to save their story and hide their story of them playing in the toilet while peeing. So now I said, “Okay I'll take it upon me, I don't care.” So, she calls my mom and she says, “[Redacted] is, her concentration, she's losing her concentration and having trouble with her studies, and she's getting involved in the wrong boys.” I said, “I'm glad she said the word wrong boys, at least she knows that those two boys are wrong.” So, I said, okay. My mom started beating me in front of this teacher in the class in the school. And I, by that time, I had taken a lot of beating from my mom, and I had become like, “I don't care” kind of an attitude. So right before that, it was, it was reported, it was reported to the parents to come and pick up the reports of the, the students, of the children from the teachers. So, before I got the bash, there was one more guy standing in front of me with his mom waiting in the line to meet the same teacher, and she met him and she complained that because he got so less marks. He's busy making fun, he's playing pranks in the classroom and he's not paying attention, he's busy playing pranks. He just knows how to play pranks. He's very good at playing pranks, but not in getting work. So that was the complaint against him. His mom started hitting him right there, and, “I'm earning so much. There, there are both parents working only for one child in the house. And you don't want to do this, and you don't want to that.” And then he and he's like, “Stop, it's mom, it's my school”. She said, “yeah,” and she had beaten him twice, “I know this is your school.” That, this is the Indian parents. And this is a normal way. If your parents don't beat you in public, then there is a problem. So, the so she is starts beating him. And he looks at me and I said, I don't like I said, wait, I knew I was gonna get beaten up too, right? So, you I said, “Don't feel embarrassed. Just wait and see what is gonna happen with me.” And then I get beaten up, and then both of us look at each other and start laughing. I said, it's coming it. I knew it was coming, but I knew she would tell so anyway.
[01:35:23]
So, so, so now comes this. We give the tenth exam and during that tenth exam, really one day I know I felt sick. I had nausea, vomiting, and I had shivering. And that was a science two paper, I believe or maths two or something. One of the two. And when I went to the paper, I didn't remember anything. I didn't remember a single topic that I studied or memorized, nothing. And I'm like, here, I want to be a pilot if I don't get good marks for science and math, knowing that the engineering colleges not going to give me an admission and I'm like– The day before my neighbor's son was also giving appearing for the tenth board exam from another school, eight o'clock in the night, he comes, “The paper has leaked I bought it for 100 rupees. This is your copy. I don't need money from you. Just study this.” And I couldn't even study what he brought. You won't believe, there was not a single question other than the leaked paper. So, I'm like, I had the paper, I didn't study what he, anything from the paper. And he got good flying marks. And the paper was leaked. Because it's on-board exam, they did take very, they take a lot of care that the paper doesn't get leaked, but there are ways. People just leak the papers for money, so and it's an every-year thing. Some people or the other leaks, people will pay for it. They will and they will have a leak. So this in science or math paper, whatever it was it got leaked. He brought me the actual copy. Not a single question was different from everything else. Not even the sequence, even the sequence was just the way it was. And I'm like I said, when I came home, he was happy. That he said, “I'm getting more than 70 out of 100.” And I said, “I'm failing, I don't think I'll make it.” He said, “I gave you the paper. It came the exact not even that not a single question here and they're not even the sequence changed of how can you fail?” He said, I said, “I was not feeling well. I didn't even read the paper that you gave me entirely. I forget about studying from the paper and failing the questions.” I don't know what I wrote in the exam, but I passed. I didn't fail, I still don't remember what I've studied and what I wrote, I don't know. I don’t know much about that subject, so couldn't go, I couldn't go for an engineering. So by, when I gave the exams, my mom had decided I am not going for engineering and she said, “You're studying commerce.” My dad was happy, he didn't say a single word. I was furious. And my dad was happy because he didn't have to get into an argument with my mom as to what I should be studying, because my mom chose it for me and my dad is a commerce graduate and my mom decided I'm going to study commerce, and my dad was happy because I was choosing his, his area of education.
And so, my dad was okay. He didn't even say anything, he didn't express happiness, he didn’t express anything. He– he showed a poker face till the time I got the admission because if it would have given a hint to my mom, I was sure she would have changed to just not to, not to make him happy or to follow his route– the kind of relationship him and her had. So I was like I don't want to do commerce because I don't know what it means to do commerce. My dad says, “What I do to the balance, sheets profit and loss, and this and that costing, and this and that.” I said, “this is something I don't know because this is this is a subject that you absolutely don't study in school.” You study maths, you study science, history and geography, so any balance sheets, or profit and loss, is none of these you study in school. So, this is you don't get an idea of what actually it is. My dad said, “I will teach you, I'll take care of you.” And I said, okay. So, I go for it under the pressure of my mom, and then I apply for– I did not, I didn't even attempt and apply for an engineering college to just see if I get through some college, but I didn't even, they didn't even let me buy a ten-rupee form to make an application. So they only bought one form for commerce. Forget about– there was arts, there was commerce, and science. These the basic three things you do when are the and that is the home science. But this is the basic three things that you do, and then after your twelfth grade then you would switch whatever you want to do. So, for the eleventh or the tenth grade, eleventh and twelfth grade they forced me that I have to, she forced me to that. I have to go commerce, deciding that it's less competitive, I’m a girl and she doesn't want to spend any more money on my education, college education. I– anyways, I'm going to get married. I'm not bringing an income in. So all these thoughts have to be thought through and she talked to me, or I saw her thinking aloud, and so if there is no in, if I'm not bringing the income into my parents’ house, they didn't want it to spend a lot of money on my education, that income will go to my husband's house. We don't know if she will give us anything after the marriage or if the husband will let me give anything to my parents after the marriage. So, there was a lot of investment risk, so no. So should, and then so commerce it was, and I got an admission in one college, and I was happy. There was a– there was an arts club. Either in the first month, I got involved in the cultural and arts club in the college. There was a math club that was– so I focused my– I had a focus of math when I went and I said, okay, let's do this. And there was an amazing teacher, and I had no complaints, I had no difficulty understanding what he was studying. So, I said okay, math it is, so we'll see. Maybe a CPA or something like that, because for a CPA or CA of equivalent CPA equivalency, you need maths. So I said, okay, this is the way if this is the way. So, I said, okay.
[01:42:28]
So, two months, less than six weeks, less than six weeks, my mom decides that my college is too far and it's, I had a cycle, I didn't have a bike, so cycling maybe, ten miles, one way, is too far for a girl to go alone. I didn't have any company along from my neighborhood going to the same college. So she goes, my mom and dad's go and speak to my uncle, my dad's first cousin, and they said, “Go ahead and change her college.” So, they all worked it out between the college authorities and the principal and vice-principal. “Okay, we have a seat for your daughter”. So-and-so and so-and-so did come and fill up the application and transfer the admission from this college to that college, because it was centralized, meaning you cannot have it, it was a board-certified or university-certified admission process means you cannot be a student of two, of two colleges. You have to be certified with either one. So, they come to my college one day, without letting me know, and they are at the office, at the office, inquiring about the transfer application, application process, and everything is ready. The form is filled for transfer. My dad fill up everything, the reason of transfer, blah blah blah, and they call me out of the classroom and said, “okay, we have to go.” I said, “where?” “Fill this out. Can you sign on this place?” I said, “Why? What is this form about?” They said, “we are moving you to another college.” So, I'm like should I sign or not sign? What would it mean if I sign? So, I'm like– and you won't believe that was the, they got me out from the math class, it was the math lecture. And I excused myself out, and I signed it, the, I signed it. I took ten minutes before I signed it. I signed it, and when I signed it, I realize I cannot go back to the classroom because I'm not a student of the class in school anymore. They stamped it. “You are no more a student; this is your transfer letter approved. Get your belongings from the classroom and you can leave.” So I was like, I left my math class and company. So, and I came, I saw my dad and said, “Okay.” My dad, you know, “I'll meet you in forty minutes in the new college.” We went, I took my cycle. My dad went, we all went on the bike. I met them in forty minutes. In– in the other– in the new college, the application papers were all filled up. There was only one cross that needed my signature. And I went and met the vice principal, he interviewed me, he spoke to me, and then he gave me an opportunity to interview him and ask questions about the college and him. And I was angry. I was angry at myself that I signed, made the first signature and he, I signed it in front of him, and I was a student of the new college. He said, “Seven o’clock tomorrow, this is your timetable.” And my dad said, “Okay, I'm going to the office.” My dad says, “Okay, I will take the rickshaw back home.” And I'm like, what do I do? She said, “Come home, what are you going to do? Lecture is tomorrow.” So I'm driving, I took my cycle, bicycle, and I'm riding maybe two hundred feet from the college. Two boys on Yamaha follow me. And they are saying, “Are you a new, new student? New admission to the college?” I said, “Not your business.” “So what is your name?” “Not your business.” “Can we be your friends?” Not your business.” And I was furious, because I had, I didn't even get time to say bye to my friends that I had met in the first college. There was these boys on the bike were, probably were my seniors in college, not attending the lectures but sitting outside on the stairs. That's very common picture you will get in the Indians colleges– that the lectures are happening, the studious and nerds will be in the college attending the college and everybody else will be outside. They know exactly how much and when to study and appear for the exams and they know how much they want, how many marks they want to pass. And get the degree and then that it's there, that's about you see. It's a very common picture in the college in all– in colleges all over the country. So, so there's the whole parking lot was full of kids, students sitting on bikes, and cycles, and staircases chatting and having fun and somebody, two guys decided to follow me. So, I'm like, in my own within myself, full of anger that I most, I hated myself the most, for the two signatures I did that day that changed my entire life. And the flow of my life because, I was looking at becoming and participating in the arts and cultural group, or I was looking at participating and become part of the math club. And here I am, I don't know what's– what's– what's there for me tomorrow in this new college.
[1:48:29]
So, I go there to the new college next day morning, and I'm trying to figure out my classrooms, and the teachers, and the timetable, and the lecturers. And the first lecture I attend was an English lecture and– and a teacher or professor comes in, and he starts talking about the grammar on the first day of my lecture because he, the– the college had already been running for six to eight weeks, right, because I was late, I was a new transfer. So, he starts talking of grammar and he writes on the Blackboard, G-R-A-M-M-E-R. And I get furious. I said, what kind of college have my mom and dad have chosen me? I just so get out of the class and walk out of the class, never to attend this class again. I that one M-E-R was like I'm not attending the college, that's it. I in the whole five years of my life, I might have attended only five percent of my lectures. I was so furious. I didn't want to attend college. I didn't want to do anything with education. I didn't want to do anything with degree. The only three lectures or professors that got me hooked up, was one was Hindi, the other was caused a Cost, Cost Accounting, and the other was Marketing and Advertising, and the third was probably Secretarial Practice. These were the four professors that kept me hooked on to the college. And that's the only four lectures I would attend weekly and didn't attend anything else. I did everything on my own. I'm like, I'm not even arguing. I'm not telling, I'm not complaining, I'm not sharing, I'm not discussing, I'm not doing anything. That's where I met my first boyfriend, when I was not attending the lectures on the staircase outside. So, I had to do extracurricular activities is so first, I thought, let me find an arts and cultural club in this new college. And this new college had an arts and cultural club, but it was dominated by a caste system. And I was didn't belong to a particular caste, so I was not invited probably. The first day I just wanted to go and watch it, they didn't want me there. I said, “How did you know who I am just from my face without even asking me my name and motive of coming in the in this area?” So, they just bluntly asked me to leave. So, I tried the dance club, there was a dance and other kind of a group that would perform for the, what they would perform on behalf of the college in different competitions or in the different events inside the college. So, there was Republic Day or Independence Day event that was happening, and there was some patriotic dance that we had to do. We had to do dance on patriotic songs. So, I enrolled my name for that because I had been dancing in the school competitions and various different occasions in the school. So, I was like, okay I can do the same thing here. So, I went there. And she said, “Do you have some good patriotic songs?” I said, “I have a whole cassette that has more than twenty, sixteen or twenty songs that are only patriotic. I'll bring it to you. You make a copy of it and give it back to me and then you choose whichever song you want, and we can mix and match.” She's okay. We became good friends. When I gave her the cassette, she took the cassette, and then she stopped speaking to me. She didn't want me in the dance group. And I said, “What happened now?” “Okay,” I said, “at least it's been more than three days. I'm sure you must have made a copy of the cassette. Can you give it back to my original?” She said, no. I said, “Give it to back. If you don't know how to make a copy, I know how to make a copy of the cassettes. I'll copy it for you. I have a cassette recorder and a two-in-one so maybe I can make it to copy for you. And then I'll give– I'll keep my original and give you the copy.” And she wouldn't speak to me. She didn't give my original back to me. Now I was beaten up by my mom for that. “You have to give away everything. You have, you don't have you. Why do you have to blindly trust people? Why did you not make a copy of it beforehand? And then, give her the copy instead of giving her the original?” I mean, I said, “Yeah, I didn't never thought of that that she would do such a thing to me.” But then my mom said, “Are you even performing for the Republic, Independence Day?” I said, “It doesn't look like, she's doesn't want me in the group,” I said. And that's when I realized how, how much influence the caste systems have, like, they prefer one over the other, even in small things. And I never I had seen all this in school because we were we didn't have, probably, before before that 1992 communal riots that happened in the country or especially in Mumbai, we children were children, and we were either friends or enemies. There was nothing beyond it either. I like you or I decide I don't like you or either I want you in my group or I don't know. It was like, either I invite you for my birthday or I don't invite you. It was– it was simple, simple fights between us children in schools. But at college I started learning and experiencing different things, and these were seniors in college and being treated by a senior in college. In the first year of college, the five more years to go, I was like, okay, it's a learning process, a new exposure, a first-time experience.
[01:54:40]
So, I said, okay. So, I spoke to my dad about it, I said, “You find something else to do so there must be something else for you.” So, I was to option there was NCC, that was the national cadet and that was NSS, was the social services. So, I said, I don't want to go to the military base. So, I went to the Social Services, National Social Services in the school. So, I attended that and then there was a ten-day camp in the first year, in the eleventh grade, that was first-of-a-kind that the state had declared that this one, juniors and seniors will have one single camp, and there will be no two different camps because it takes away a lot of time from for the teachers away from college. So they both, they decided they will have common–one second, a group of one hundred and fifty-plus students and teachers and staff went on a ten-day, a ten or eleven-day, stay in a remote, out-of-grid village. And we had to teach them the villagers’ multiple things like teamwork, hygiene, keeping the keeping the town clean. We also were entrusted the responsibility of doing the census, to collecting the census data for almost ten or fifteen villages, and, and entertainment for the villagers, just a lot of things, giving them information on farming, on childbirth, on various kind of diseases and on AIDS and things. It was okay. It was a ten-day stay in camp, and we did everything for the villagers and all the neighboring villages got invited. Everybody was included as so. And it was in these where villages were in the hills there, even if you had, there was no roads. So, we would get done on a highway and walk our way to the hills on the top and between the hills. So, we lived there for ten days and we, I performed a dance. Everybody was expected to, to show some art, or share some kind of art form with as an entertainment after dinner every day. So, everybody was given a chance like, five minutes of stage. So, I actually had knew it, that we had to do, and so I actually had taken my dress, a dance dress, with me and I performed a six or seven minute of dance just by myself, and the people, even after five years, they remembered me, that this girl performed on this dance. So, so that's, I made a lot of friends there. I mean, I played a first, my first public prank was at this, at this, at this, was at this camp. So, a group of ten– there was, we were given a group of ten, we were made on the first day of the camp. We were divided into group of tens, and if that group was moved from one responsibility to the other every day. So, on the day of my group, when we were given the kitchen responsibility, I played a prank. I played a huge prank with everybody, even with my team. So, I told them I know a recipe, and I made up a recipe, and I made them eat uncooked rice, okay? And if you see, have you ever seen flattened rice or Rice Krispies? Okay, so we have in India also has similar kind of things which is and then there is a, my mom would make it but it is, it was a recipe. But I tweaked her recipe and made them eat uncooked food to an extent where it was a– I think it was for breakfast, I believe– so I used twenty percent of the groceries and people and like, “What kind of recipe is that, that we have, you're using those twenty percent of the reserve groceries for just a breakfast?” So, I said,” no, it's a wonderful recipe,” I said. So, I mean I gave the instructions, what needs to be chopped, and what needs to be mixed up. And I was helping everybody and monitoring everybody. And so the breakfast was served. Everybody ate it. Everybody came and said, “that's a new recipe, people like the recipe.” The reality was nobody liked it. Well, but nobody came and complained, and by the end of the day, everybody was complaining, they have, they have a jaw pain because they ate completely uncooked flattened rice. So, the professor comes to me and says, “the recipe was nice, [Redacted], but if you would have cooked it a little bit more, maybe it would have been a little bit better.” He was like, kind of gentle and nice to me, “but you it's maybe it's your first time. You will learn, by the time you get married you will be better at it.” So he's already thinking of my marriage. I said, “yes sir”. And in my mind, I was laughing, laughing out loud, because the whole of the almost more than 160 people ate that uncooked recipe, which was never intended to be cooked. And it was a big prank. If I would have gone caught or, I don't know what the consequences it would be. But I– I filled up that prank for the first time and once time that's it, no more again. But after that breakfast teachers decided [Redacted]’s team is not cooking lunch and dinner. We will pull her out, she's to go downfield. Let's not put her in the kitchen. But I'm a good, good cook. If you trust me, I cook, and I do when I'm cooking real, genuine food, I cook really good food. It was intended to be a fun, and it, so they pulled me out, our entire team out, of the kitchen that day and we were not cooking lunch and dinner, and our entire team were on the field doing something else. And that, the only limitation was when we were teaching hygiene to the villagers, our own hygiene was compromised because we didn't have enough resources, they didn't have enough resources, to accommodate one-hundred-and-sixty people in the town in the village. So, if we had to use, there was no restrooms and loos. We would, if we had to use, go to the restroom or a loo, the only place was the fields and we had to either go before, in the before it was sunrise in the morning or wait the whole day and go use go in the fields after some sundown. So, we got, I personally got a lot of allergies from the fields, and I had some red marks all over my body, that was some swelling. And so, I, there was in the ten days, and we had two workshops of the doctor in the neighboring town come and take care of us. So that doctor, he was very unresponsible, in terms of he was using one syringe to reach for all one hundred-and-fifty-one of us, and he had only one, one cup of hot water that he would inject one, put the hot water in the syringe, and the same hot water and use the same syringe. Again, did not change the water, didn't change the syringe. Now, I come from a family where I had more than twenty doctors in the family and I'm telling him I don't want it, I don't care. If you have any lotion to give me to apply, I'll take it. And I don't know how I fell for it, but he did give me an injection. And once, and the moment he gave me an injection, I don't know what injection it was, I walked not more than twenty steps out of the, the out of that place, and I collapsed. I completely blacked out and I fell down. I don't know who picked me up and how they picked me up and put me into the bedroom that was assigned to my team. Next day morning I didn't wake up for the breakfast. I did not wake up. I woke up almost at the time of end of the lunch. So, half of the day was almost over for everybody because with the day started at 6:00, we had to go in the field early morning as soon as the breakfast was done. So, I don't know what happened. So, I was the only one who collapsed, so I don't know what injection he gave me. So, that was his last visit. He never came back anyways. So, I got myself HIV tested and I'm clear. So I'm not worried about that, but at that place when we were together with the–
[02:04:15]
[End of Recording One]
[Beginning of Recoding Two]
[00:00:00]
The seniors and the juniors, I met my boyfriend there, so that we interacted with the boys. There was a concept in India, if you know, your friends will push you towards a relationship, even if you are not thinking on those terms, they will. They will say, “Oh, she's looking at you. She might be interested in you.” “Oh, he’s looking at you, he might be interested in you.” It is a very common relationship starter. Many relationships start like this. Even if you are not looking at that boy, or if you're not looking at that girl, and you’re thinking something and you’re looking in a direction– just, you know you're busy in your own thoughts, people will think, “Oh, she's staring at you, she likes you.” So, this is how it started. So, I probably was thinking of something else, and I was looking in some direction and then, “Oh, she's looking at you, she's staring at you.” So– so this is how the relationship started. We have never met each other earlier, we never knew of each other earlier, then, all of a sudden because of this camp, it became– became very possessive and controlling. So, the camp– I had was already upset that I had to let go of my friends and first college and come to the next, new college. So, it was only a six, maybe a four-month, four-month span in the new college, and I had a boyfriend, or a boy who was interested in me, and he was trying to control my relationships. Meaning he belonged to a particular political student union, so I was not allowed to make friends from another side. I was not allowed to– this– even before I saw him, and him and I said yes to each other, okay? So, what time do I go to college? What time do I leave from the house? Which bus do I take? Or what time do I take it? And what day of the week I take my cycle, bicycle to the college? Which parking lot I park my bicycle? Everything was monitored, everything was controlled. And I know I had had spies or hidden bodyguards following me. Men, most of the time. Oh, she left from this place at this time. Oh, she crossed this corner or this road or this intersection at this time. So I'm like, at one point I didn't know that I really liked him or not. So, I asked her, one of my friends, to go speak to him and ask him what his intention is, like why is he acting like this? So, I had a, I had a group of other friends who are of my age who would– who would first year college students, right? So, he beat them up, and he said, “You stay away from her, she's my girl.” And for me, I was looking for study buddies, like, somebody who we could study together. It was not a relationship that I was looking to build beyond. But he had already figured it out in his heart mind. So, one of my family members, distant family members who also happen to be in like in the same college, studying in the same year, he was also the first year of college student, he went and spoke to him saying that, “She's my distant relative. What's your intention?” So, he said, “If I don't get her, I'll kill myself or I will kill her.” So, he brings this message back to me and I said– and this is a very common thing men will express, and many times will act on it– so, so when he said that, so my cousin comes and says he's serious about you. I'm like, “Why don't you defend me?” I said,” How dare you come back and tell me that he said this?” I don't think men are, men are, that this is normal in India. I mean, if he's saying this it means he is just, he's a serious about you. So, I'm like, okay but I’m not interested. I just went and spoke to my friend who was, who did not get admission in my college, but you got a admission in neighboring college. And the neighboring college was like just a wall to connect. On one side of the college, on one side of the wall, was my college, on one side of the other side of the college, the wall was her college. So, I went to her college, and I pulled her out of the classroom, and I said, “You know what? This is happening. I need you to speak to him or I need your help.” So, she goes and speaks to him. So, she said, “You stay here, I'll speak to him at once.” So, like, maybe twenty, twenty steps away from me they both are talking. She says, “Oh he– he's ready to marry you.” I said, “I'm telling you to tell him stay away, and you are telling me that now you have finalized a marriage proposal for me.” So, I'm like, “Okay.” So, this is how my relationship began actually. And then we started spending time with each other. So, I still don't remember me saying yes to him and he saying, “Will you marry me? Or I would like to be your boyfriend,” or any whatever. He never said that to me ever, not even once. And I never said yes to him once. And this is how we became boyfriend and girlfriend.
[00:05:32]
So that relationship went for almost maybe six years. There were ups and downs, a lot of differences obviously because I didn't know whether to get in or not to get in. And then one fine day the relationship ended in a situation where it became too difficult for me to– because by that time I had don't– didn't have any other friends. It was him, his friends, all the– all the students of my age who were doing something else and I was with him, five years older or three years older than me, and I couldn't be with the people of my age, doing these things that they were doing. And for me it was suffocating. On the other day, on the other day, I was like his girlfriend. So, I had some special privileges, not only in the college, but in the city. And so, I remember one– one day there was a college election and between the left, I mean, the left and the right, right? The student unions. And the– the, right before the elections, the war between both of them went to such an extent, that there were 200 students from one side, and 200 students, on the other side, in the college campus, ready to go on war. As if they had swords of Coke and Pepsi glass bottles, cycle chains, hockey sticks, and they were ready to go to war. So, this, this happens. He knew it was coming. So, six o’clock in the morning he calls me, “You are not stepping out of the house today. The whole day, stay inside. If you don't hear from me today before ten o’clock tonight, you're not coming back to college tomorrow. Wait till I call you.” I said, “What happened?” And I'm like, “You are not stepping out of the house, even to buy milk.” I said, okay. So, I'm home for two days, waiting for his call. And then he calls, it's okay. It's all clear. You can step out. So, I miss my college. So does my friend, because we both shared, we always travel together. And so I asked her, “This is what he told me. If you want to go, you go. I don't know why, he didn't tell me what.” So, she said, “If you're not going, I'm not going. I don't know what's happening, I am not going to risk it.” So now, when I go and I'm like, I question what happened. Then he said somebody, because of the– there was college elections posters of– of the candidates were printed and posted on the college premises, somebody printed the wrong photo. So that means if Dan is running for democrat and [Redacted] is running for Republican. So, there is a “[Redacted] is running for the Republican, please vote for [Redacted]” with [Redacted]’s picture on it all posted in the entire college. And then there is “Dan running for Democrat,” with [Redacted]’s picture on it and “Please vote for Dan.” This is the picture of Dan that [Redacted]s picture, not Dan's picture. And this, so on college premises, on both the posters, it's one person's picture. And then, and so he said now they wanted to find out who did it because that was winning or losing for the elections for them. So they went on war, and that was the solution. So, the cops called– both the principal and the management called the cops, but because they did not actually fight, there was no arrests, but they were waiting so that they don't take any drastic actions. So, so one part is saying, “You did it on purpose,” and the other part is saying, “You did it on purpose because you want to give us the bad name.” And so, nobody is willing to take the responsibility. And then there are these men who are fighting it out and the college opens for classes. And I'm like, okay, so I know what I got into, and I know what, what is there if I get married to such a person and I'm like, I do I want this? Did I sign up for like this? And I'm like, my dad is like a person who like goes to office, works for nine hours a day, comes back, eats his lunch, watches TV and sleep. And here, this is boyfriend, I don’t know. So, will I be able to live in this new lifestyle? So, I'm like, okay. So, this goes on, and then after three months, when he wins the election– he actually won the election the same week after three months– he comes and tells me that he paid to do that thing, just to win the election. I said, “I knew the kind of personality you know; I was so sure you did it.” So, he said, “It– it just cost me more– not more than five thousand rupees.” Which is $100, or maybe even less, then. “And I just got it done, and I won the election. Everything is fair in love and war.” I said, “Yeah, I can understand it. So, you got it done.” So, he, and he's laughing at me because he won. He was, so, so he got elected for the election, for the, the district, I mean, as a county, county-level student union for the left wing and for as a president. So he had more than six hundred colleges under him as a president of the Student Union for the university, for the, for the city university. So, I'm like, okay. So now, so he would do from, from reunions, to annual functions, to other activities in the college– all year round was his responsibility. So, he was doing that, and one of them elections, he chose me as, I don't know if it was the cultural queen or the beauty queen something, something. So, he gave me that. He just said, “Come dressed up as best as you can.” I said okay. “And this is, this is the agenda, and this is, this is, this is the theme of the competition.” So, I will go there, I participate and like, I'm like, I'm on the news, people are interviewing me and I'm like I'm shivering in front of the camera. I didn't know what to say. The camera is telling me, all the live cameras, “Don't shiver, don’t be scared, just be your natural self.” And I'm like, I can’t do this. So, it's, so he cuts it short. And I'm like, my grandfather, not my grandfather, my uncle and my brothers, my first cousins called me saying, “You're on TV, you’re on TV.” I said, “I know I’m on TV. I didn't want it to see you. I didn't want you guys to know.” And so, the whole family comes to know that I was on TV. This not more than like two minutes, or maybe one and a half minute. So, and I'm like, okay. So, I asked my brother, “Do you have, do you have friends with the cable owners?” And I said, “Can you get me that to thirty seconds or one minute clip? If you can get a copy of that?” He said yes, but he never, he has not yet gotten me that copy here. So, I don't know where it went.
[00:13:24]
So, I said, okay. So now, so now, we have, we have, now I'm flunking college. It’s not because I was angry at myself, or I was angry at my changing the colleges, it was because I had to go, I had to be with my boyfriend, or we're going flunking the college watching a movie, or we are going flunking the college and attending something, meetings or something. So, I'm like, okay, so in the meanwhile, in the twelfth grade, my grandfather dies. And I'm home, because we are supposed to stay home and express grief for a certain day. We normally don't go out for the first thirteen days especially. So, I'm home and waiting for all the rituals to to get over, and then I go back and that's the first fight started. Like, why did I not go to college? I said, “You know my grandfather died and we are supposed to stay home, you don't go out.” I’m a girl. Men can probably go back to work. Women should not be going to work. They also expected to stay at home. So, I asked, “If you knew that my grandfather died, why did you not come home to express condolences?” And that's the first argument and disagreements that we had between both of each other, and it went to an extent that we separated after six years. So, we still continued together, but at one point and didn't work out. So, we had the, the last year, final year, the fifth year of college, I had marketing law and corporate law as a subject to study. And while studying that, while explaining different kinds of laws, I was told that if you marry against the wish of your parents– I mean in India it is a very common thing that you run away from the house to get married against, against permission of your family's. Most of the time. It is a love. This is the kind of love marriage that happens. If you say “love marriage” in India, it means you run away from the family and you get married and settle somewhere else. You don't stay with your family, or one side of the one family, especially the– the groom's family knows, and you run you, you, you– it's a runaway bride, basically. She leaves her parents’ house, runs away from her family against their wish, or without telling the family, and then you get married and stay with the– the boy's family. So, if you do that, and if you leave your family, if both husband and wife, a boy and a girl, leaves the family, or if the girl leaves the family and if the boy marries the girl against his parents wish or her parents wish, the father of the of the boy can disown the son from his property as is his property rights. And this was a decision making for him, and that was his decision to let me go, not the property. For his father's and his ancestor’s property, he wasn't sure if his father would accept me as his daughter-in-law. And if he didn't accept me as a daughter, and I ran away from my family, then he would lose his ancestral property and a share to his father's property. And we had a discussion on that, and I think that is where it, it registered to him that he wanted what he wanted to choose. In between, a lot of things happened. So, I'll tell you a funny story. In the College of Miscommunications, I was already somebody's girlfriend in the college, so you are not allowed to interfere, you're not allowed to, you have to expect it to she's taken, you are not supposed to interact. So other men stay away, right? So I was, it would probably, it was the day of the exam, and it was raining. So, I had my umbrella, so I could give my exam. I was not sitting in my everyday class. I was sitting in the exam hall meaning some, some other, some other classroom where my number was seated, and I forgot to pick up my umbrella because it– I– it was a new classroom, I completely forgot. If it was my everyday classroom, I knew where the umbrella would be. So, I came halfway through the building out towards the exit. And I'm like, I remember I– that it's raining outside, and my umbrella is a classroom. I, so I hit my head like this, I go back to the classroom to pick up my umbrella. Now this is inside me, I didn't know what was happening, anything around me. Supposedly there was a see another senior coming from front, in front of me walking towards me. And after seeing me probably he smiled, to which my reaction was like this, and I went to turn around and went back. So, he felt that I looked at him. I didn't want it to give him, I didn't want it to return a smile to him, so I hit my forehead, turned around and changed my, changed my way. And so, when I came back down from the classroom with the umbrella in the hand, he came and said to me, “I know that I'm not as fair as him, it doesn't mean that you change your ways, you can at least give me a smile.” So now, I didn't know the context of it, because for me I only forgot the umbrella and I went to pick up the umbrella. I didn't see him coming, smiling at me and expecting a smile and return. So, this spread like a wildfire. So, he came to know–he was not in the college, he was at his shop, and from somebody called him and told him that such and such thing happened in the college between this boy and your girlfriend. So now the whole gang comes to beat him up, I believe. And then he says, he comes and asks me “what happened?” He said, “Did he say these words to you? ‘I'm not as Fair as him and doesn't mean that you change your ways and not even return a smile.’” So, I said, “Yeah, he said that.” So, I think there was there was a tug-of-war, there was some kind of a beating that was exchanged between the both of them, probably, that never reached me. But he never asked me what happened. And I never knew what happened. Because for me, I was not even I didn't even notice him coming because, I was in my own mind– I have to go home after study, I have to come back with the exam tomorrow morning– so I'm thinking different I forgot my umbrella. That's that was my priority, because it was raining. So, misunderstandings happen, but they're not to an extent that you don't want to clarify both the sides what happen, and you pick up hockey sticks and start beating each other. So, it's a common thing. It's very common. The whole idea is, “She's taken, she's mine, you don't even have to speak to her, that's it.”
[00:21:16]
So anyway, a letter went to my home saying, “She is, her attendance is not at par in college and the parents are invited.” Obviously, I was not attending the college, I was busy with my boyfriend outside. So, my dad said, “You're getting good marks and you're not attending the colleges?” I said, yes. So, he comes and meets the parents, the parents assure that she will not do it again. And he meets English teacher, who spelled the grammar M-E-R, he says, “She doesn't attend a single lecture of mine.” And he complained that I am busy with– I am in the college but am with my boyfriend all the time, but not in his lecture. I said, I was like, I was so much close to tell him why I don't attend his lectures, but I said, “I don't want to.” So, I just kept quiet again and I took the heat, and I kept quiet and I said, “I will try my best to attend your lectures,” but which I never did again. So, in the last year again, I made new friends because there were six men and probably five new girls, that we all came together, and the two of us, me and my friends, so all was made a group. And then we started studying together, and we had an agenda, because we all were students of the marketing and advertising and branding special major in college. So, we had to– we had to arrange an event, actually two events, and I became the event coordinator, and I took up the responsibility of planning and executing everything for the event. So we got two events done for that event, because as part of curriculum to see the event management skills and stuff, and so we did that. And that's how we came together. We can got to know each other, and then we started spending time together, studying together, and then we did. And one of the events was making Mad Ads. Mad Ads is when you a topic is given to you, and you create an ad on it and you perform in front of everybody. So we've I picked up a topic on health awareness, and the topic then was big thing during those times was Hepatitis B. So I got as much material from all my doctor uncles and aunts on Hepatitis B and on internet, and I put up like a seven or eight-minute skit together. And I’m teaching and explaining what Hepatitis B is, and how it the awareness about how to protect yourself, and how to care for yourself, and what are the symptoms and blah, blah blah. So, I had six girls and put, I brought together six girls, gave them at least like, you know, one minute each of dialogue, and the entire script together and made them perform in front of the of the guests, guests and every one of the students. We won first prize for it. So then, I, now immediately, all of a sudden, the last eight months of my college or five years of my college, I was not only his girlfriend, but I had my own identity for the first time. I am good at doing something, and she can perform and win the first prize without him without his influence, not, not because she is his girlfriend, but she has capability of doing something on her own then. There was an event that was hosted on the same day that we had we had previously created advertisements, print advertisement, newspaper advertisement, we had to design a– take a service or a product, design a newspaper advertisement, as if it would be printed in a newspaper and display it and the– the special, the special guests would– would grade and give them marks. So for part is, I gave my two entries. One got first prize and the second got a third prize. So, on one day, I got two first prizes and won third prize for all my hard work. Nobody in the room, even my ex, my boyfriend, didn't know I was doing such a thing. I never share with him. I didn't, I didn't want his influence. I didn't want his interference. I didn't the guests didn't know that I was his girlfriend. So, nobody knew. It was only my work that was displayed, and not his relationship attached. So, it gave me a confidence, and I felt like, “Yeah, I can do something beyond this.” Because five years I was like, I didn't get that opportunity as a newcomer in the college to perform or to display my talent in the college. Not even once. I was told what not to do all the time because I was his girlfriend, and it became too much of a burden for me. So, when he came to know that I won, he wasn’t probably very happy about it. Because I hid from him one, and I made two new friends. So then, by this time we realized that we were too busy with marketing and advertising as a subject, and we neglected law as a subject, and we don't know enough about the topic and the subject, and we probably will not make it in the final exam. So, so we had to find somebody. By this time, I was– somebody who would teach us law outside the college.
[00:27:24]
By this time I had joined a computer class. That was the three-month computer class after college that would do the basics. It was a university-affiliated college course, so it had a weight in the country. So, I did that, and by college I had started teaching in the same thing to somebody else. So, I'm– I made friends, and I had students who I was teaching. For, for these students and friends, I came close together a group of friends that were what is it called? Outside of that, a student that came from the outside the city to study in the study, and they were living in a hostel, and we would go and meet them all in the hostel and spend time with those friends. And they were all boys. And one, all of them were either studying for their masters or they were studying to become a CM, which is an equivalent to the CPA. So, there is a mix of students. So, one of them was very good at law, at corporate law, and that's what we need. So, he said, I said, “Will you teach me?” He said, “I can teach you.” So, I said, okay. So, I went to them, to him, for a day and I was happy with what he was teaching. I've probably made a mistake or maybe not, I came home, back to the college and I said, “I found a teacher and he's going to teach me law.” And now everybody jumped on me and like, “How can you be so selfish? Like, what about us?” So, the next day, all of them joined me to the– to the– to the law class, to the– at his apartment and he was shocked. He said, “Did you didn't even tell me that all these ten people are coming. Like, I signed up only for one.” So, he said, “I don't have the confidence to teach ten people at a time, I can teach you.” So, he's there. These people said, “No, we, you just teach as if you're teaching to her. We will not say a word, we will just sit in the corner and listen what you're teaching.” And he said, “No, this is not done.” So, for three days he's, he started hiding. He wouldn't open the door. He would run away from the back door, and then we would try to track him down where he is as if we are playing hide and seek. And then on the fourth day, finally, we sat him down. I said we are paying, you 1500 rupees per student, okay? That is 1500 into ten is 15,000, and this much, how much you will make in three weeks. We have an exam in five weeks. You have only three, three weeks to finish the entire book and syllabus, because we have other topics and subjects to study while we are negotiating, okay, and he has no option to say no. So, he said– and we sit him down, this is the exam, let's start. We said, I mean, and he is reading the book letter by letter, word by word and explaining us. And while teaching us, he explained– some discussion came up between love marriage or arranged marriage and ancestral property and then he defined the law. What is that's when I went and told my boyfriend, like, what I learned and that's where things started splitting up a between us. So, the– during those times, then I knew things weren't working and I had to do something else beyond the graduation. So, I said, told my mom and dad that I think I like a course in New Delhi, and I would like to go and stay there for six months to one year of study and then take it from there. My mom and dad looked at each other, and they said, “Do you even know how far New Delhi is?” I said, “Yeah, I've been there once with my dad. We were there for six days and it's okay, I can stay there. I will find a hostile or a room sharing, an apartment sharing, and I'll stay there, and I will study. And if people here from all over the country can come to our city to study, why can't I go to them?” Because my mom said, “because this is Pune, and that is the Delhi. It’s different. The people who know Pune is called the Oxford of the East. Everybody from the entire country comes to Pune to study. We housed more than four, a four hundred thousand students every year. More than that every year, just for people, students outside the city. But we don't go outside, whatever you want to study, you study here.” And I said, “No, I have to go.” So now they again costs one more signature, right? So my father and mom decide I have to do MBA, and not the course– it was a beauty and, beauty skin and technician, and the beauty and skin related. One-year course would allow probably to have me a certified partner. So, and I was thinking on different terms. So, my mom filled up, say, “Okay, you're giving this exam.” I said, “What exam is it?” I filled up the form sign, the exam form. So, I signed the exam form, and they gave me the exam and I passed the exam. I give an interview, in-person interview with the, with the admission authorities. They give me admission, let me into the college. And here I am doing my MBA. So, it was never by choice. None of my education was by choice. It was just by one signature, and the form was filled by somebody else. So, I'm like, okay, so I go to the college and then I said, okay, and now that I'm doing my MBA, at least let me choose my own college. So, I choose Symbiosis. It is the best college. So, my dad said, “Okay, fine. I would call the authorities.” Because my dad was, had a head of department accounts in one of the five stars and seven-star hotels in the city, so he had contacts because he had customers and Symbiosis was a big client for them, so I'm sure my dad had some influence. And my dad called the– the director’s daughter, the director’s daughter and said, “My daughter needs an admission, can you speak to her?” So, she calls, her office calls me says, “She wants to meet you at so-and-so time on so-and-so date. This is, this is the office where she will be.” And I said okay, okay. So, I go and meet her, and then I speak to her and my, I'm like, “I want an admission at this college.” She says, “Okay, we can plan, do you have any plans at the future? Like what do you see yourself doing in the future? Why do you want to do an MBA?” So, I was naïve. I told her genuinely that my mom is forcing me to– to the MBA and then she took a back step. I mean I had an admission ready, waiting for me with– and it was taken away from me when I told it was like my mom forcing me to do and yeah.
[00:34:24]
So, I lost that seat, I lost that admission there. And then I'm like, okay. So my mom reaches out to my godfather and he says, “Can you call your–” because my godfather was a faculty in Vads, if you remember, I said he was a teacher in Vads in one of the engineering college, and engineering colleges also, they had and MBA college attached to it. So they called, and my mom says, “It's close, the colleges that she has picked out too, way too far away from the home,” and by that time I had my own moped, my own bike. “But we, I don't want my daughter going so far away.” So, leaving the best of the colleges, she wanted me to get in a study in a college that was close to a house but didn't have a high holding in the– in the industry for especially for the MBA side of it. Engineering, I know they are really good. So, I'm here going there, and I meet the director. The admission is already confirmed. Everything is done, all the phone calls have been done. And I just have to go and meet the person and just one signature again. So, I go there. I signed the paper, and the entire form has been filled, everything is ready. I get my MBA admission there and I'm like, okay, so now I have to repeat this. So even– and by the time I've finished my MBA, I don't know what I'm supposed to do after getting that degree, because somebody else was deciding it for me all the time. So, for me it was just a studying by-hearting and giving the exam instead of actually learning and getting something out with an agenda to be in the corporate. So, by– by– by the time I finished my MBA, I got a job in a bank, in a campus recruitment. I went there only for one day and then they did not keep my offer, offer letter ready on the first day. I was expecting the offer letter to be ready even before I joined. They wanted me to join beforehand, they will give me the offer letter later. And then the– the job description that they gave me an in-person interview was completely different from what they made me do on the first two days. And I ask them, “How long I have to do this?” And they said, “A couple of more months and then we'll move you to the–" I said, no. The third day I said, “I'm not coming,” and I just left the job. So then, and then my mom was the most happiest person. I said “Why?” So, I asked her, “What was your agenda on making me do an MBA?” And she said, “I just wanted you a rich and highly educated husband.” So, I said, “This is the reason you wanted me to study MBA?” But then let me go and find a job for almost three to six months after graduating from the college. And I'm like, okay. So, I hide from her that I have interviews and I'm looking for a job. And finally, I– I gave my exam in the month of April and May for the exam for the MBA, in the month of November I was given an interview, I get a job offer, I join and just about on the, the 15th or the 16th of December I joined my job, my job, and 21st of December, she forces this marriage proposal on me. And it was her decisions, and there's no saying no. So, I'm like, “Why are you forcing so much things, so many things on me? I can make my own decisions. Why do you have to make so many decisions? Help me understand how, and why, to make decisions let it– let– let it be upon me to– how to make decisions. Like why you are doing it, everything for me.” And I don't know, she was not the same with my sister. And I do remember I had once said that I don't want to marry a guy or be associated with a family from your hometown, because I had made up a mind of mind that I don't want to associate be connected with men or families from this village and somewhere she rejected all other proposals and she just picked one from that town. Which I got mad at her. So between, between giving the exam and waiting for the results, and getting the job, seven months I must have met and seen at least fifteen to eighteen prospective grooms as an arranged marriage interviews. And either I said no or either they said no, and this guy that I got married to, my ex-husband, he said no to as well. I have it in writing, in an email, that I'm not interested. I met him in the month of June, my grandfather, my mom's mom, or my mom's dad, and me went and met him in his apartment in Mumbai. He was working. He said, “I cannot take a day off. I cannot travel to Pune to go see the girls. So why can’t she come to me so that it will save my travel time.” I said, okay. So, we went there, we met them, and then he said, “I'm not interested.” That's what his email said. I said, “I like you, but I'm not ready to say yes. But I would like to have a relationship where we are, it's an open communication where we get to know each other more before we go any further.” And his response, “Do not wait for me, I'm not interested.” I said, okay. So I tell my mom and dad that this is the response he has given to me that he's not interested. So, we forget about it. I see a couple, I meet a couple of more men, boys, after that, after that during this period, and a couple I didn't like, a few if you didn't like me. Our expectations didn’t match. And we had already, my boyfriend and I had already separated, and I graduated MBA in 2003 of May, and he had already gotten married in January of 2003. So, we know there was no going back. So, I had moved on and I said, I said, okay love marriage, so, I mean arranged marriage. So by this time, um, my mom was not happy that I accepted a job. Absolutely not happy. My father was very proud of me. And my mom, I remember the day and how, so my mom, and my mom, my dad was home, my sister was home, and I was home, my mom went to the hometown, stayed with her mom and dad, and they had to attend a wedding. That was the reason she went there. So, she had to attend a wedding, and, in this wedding, my ex had come. So, my, now we are all cousins, him, I, everybody is cousins. We are all related to each other. So everybody was there– the boys whom I rejected, the boys whom he rejected, the girls whom he rejected, the boys whom I rejected– everybody was there, and the boys who I was rejected by was there. And the wedding was of a boy whom I rejected. There was, even if we rejected each other, we were still cousins and relatives. So, we still went to the– there were wedding invitations, and there was no hiding. And everybody was still invited and nobody's tormented, there was no holdup that you said no to me, or you did not say yes to me. So, he was there, and my mom was there, my grandfather, grandmother was there, and my dad's sister and her husband were there. So, the– the– the seniors in the family who made decisions, like grandparents and my dad's sister's husband, like, were there in the wedding, right? So, they all– these five people cornered my ex-husband and said, ”You are still unmarried. What are your plans? Why did you even say no to my daughter?” My grand– my grandfather, and my– my dad's, uh, sister's husband asked him the question. And he's like, “I don't think I have a problem now, but only if my sister says yes, it's a yes.” And then they are all happy, okay, that he's basically saying a yes, right? So, I'm, like, I'm unaware.
[00:43:15]
Now I am in the first thirty days of time period in my new first job ever, and it's all training. So, I joined working for a newspaper company, like, equivalent to New York Times in India, so I had to attend a certain training a certain way, so I had to study the distribution network, how it goes. So I have– you're expected to be there on the street at five o’clock to understand how the newspaper is picked up from the printing press, given it to a to– to a, tracked uh, moved from one place to another, how it goes to– to the– to the contractors, and how the single individual delivery boys delivered news paper to everybody, right? That was one kind of training. The other training was you have to attend the, you have to visit the printing press: spend the whole day there, see how, how the newspaper is printed. All these things were lined up every day, every week, and if you are, if you're visiting a printing press, special permission had to be taken for– for privacy and for safety reasons. So, they took the permission for the new hires to be able to attend to, to be able to visit the printing press for the whole day. And my mom picks me up and says, “You are doing no such thing, you are going and meeting his sister right now.” On the same day when I was supposed to go to the printing press. So, I had to call off, and all my colleagues went to the printing press except me. And my mom met him for the wedding, on probably Friday or Saturday, whatever that day was. And I'm like, okay. She comes, picks and– and home– she drives– it’s a five-and-a-half-hour drive, five-and-a-half-hour drive in the rickshaw carts. So, she drives with my grandmother. My grandfather sends the driver, the two, two women in the car all night, she comes to Pune. She reaches Pune, six o’clock in the morning. All night they're driving basically. I know they are on their way, they do, they called me on Friday night saying, “Can you take the next bus and come here, immediately.” I said, “I am not coming. I have to be in the printing press eight o’clock tomorrow morning, I'm not coming to Mahad. I don't know which boy you're talking about, because I have forgotten. I met so many. I don't even know who you're talking about, how he looks, what his name is, and you are saying that we already confirmed everything, you just have to meet the sister?” I said no. So I am like, I locked myself in the bedroom. And the– the telephone is, was in the bedroom. So I removed the receiver and put it on the side. So, at one point after they called me ten times and forcing me to take the next bus, I said I'm not coming and someone, they sent my mom’s, they sent my mom's brother home. And my mom's brother comes home, speaks to my dad and my dad is quiet. This is the first time my dad doesn't react or stand by me. And I'm like, why is my dad behaving like this? And he's not very happy either, because he is not in the picture. I mean, his opinion, his decision, is not even seen, and everything is happening between my mom and her dad, and her dad. So, this was– she never picked up the, she never picked up the phone and said, “This is what the boy said and what do you think what we should do?” Instead, she just called me directly and said, “hop on the next train or bus and I want you here, I have already finalized everything.” That upset, not just me, but my dad also. So, I'm like, no, I'm not coming. But my, my mom's brother came home at like ten o’clock or eleven o’clock at night, because I removed the receiver, and they couldn't reach us anymore. So I'm like, my mom’s says you, you can't– He's trying to tell me, you can’t, you wont to be staying in your parents’ house all life long, you have to go, you have to get married. In our culture, in our religion, in our families, we don't keep our daughter's home, so, and he's like, just go, go with the flow, he says. And I'm like, I don't want to. He raised his voice on me at, at the age of 21, 23, and I'm like, I don't care. You don't understand the implication, what’s going to happen. Like, why are you forcing me into everything that I don't want to do? I have, I have done my education without knowing what I have to do with that education. And now you're telling me to get married to this person? So, he called, probably called them back saying she's not budging and they drove, probably must have left at one o’clock in the morning to reach there six o’clock or 6:30 in the morning. And they reach there, they use the restroom, they made tea for themselves, they eat the rusk and the tea. They both held me by one arm each on both the sides, my grandmother and my mom on one side to me and put me in a van, put me in the van that they came with, and I was in the van in no time. They packed my clothes themselves. I didn't know what they packed, what they did not. And, and next thing I know I was on my journey back for the next five hours. I was like, she should not run or escape from the van. So I was in the middle of my mom and my grandmother on the other sides. I did not react. I didn't say anything. I was quiet. I sat in the van. And I came– we reached the home and there were, so I was told that this is the family. You have to wear a sari. His sister came home saying we have almost more than twenty-five family members wanting to meet her. People who came for the wedding stayed back, they do not go home, just to see her and also so that this meeting doesn't have to happen again. So basically, in Indian families, all the family has to meet the new bride, or the new groom. Everybody's invited. So, so now that they are here, they are, we don't have to repeat that. You don't have to come twice, they don't have to come twice, they’re just staying here instead of leaving. Let's meet in the morning so that they can leave in the evening. So I was not even given time to rest or– or sleep, or nothing. So, I took a shower when I reached home, I probably had my lunch or meal something, and then I dressed up and I went to his family. So now everybody is there except him. So, I don't know who, which, who is he? I didn't know his name; I didn't remember his face. I didn't nothing, know nothing. So here I'm meeting his twenty, twenty-five, thirty family members, ten of them are his employees or maids. And I’m like, why am I meeting the maids? Like why are they here? No, they are part of a family. I said okay. It doesn’t matter, but it was very confusing, and I'm like he is not there but ten maids are there and that was surprising. So anyways, so he didn't show up. I don't know who, which groom, or which prospect this guy is, whose family I'm meeting, and I'm like, okay.
[00:51:05]
So, I go home. Nobody asks me anything. So, I said, okay. Before going to meet his friends, there were three other grooms, prospect grooms who showed up at our doors in my grandfather's house saying that, “We know that you are on your way there, but we would like to tell you about that we are waiting and are interested.” So, they just showed up on the door and my grandfather said, “Okay, okay, wait.” So, I'm like, why is not my father speaking up? And I'm like, okay. So, I meet this family, I come back home and for an hour there is no conversation, no discussion, then their family calls. Look, he wants to speak to her. And then everybody is happy that– okay, okay so now is upset with me that the I didn't come back with a yes answer, and when they called that he wants to speak to me, everybody was cheered up in the family. So then everybody started talking to me, “Okay, he's going to call you in an hour, be ready to speak, to say that blah blah blah.” And I speak, and like, I'm on the call with him for forty minutes to maybe fifty-five minutes, or even probably more, and I only say, “I don't even remember your face.” He asks me on religion, God, my faith, my thoughts, my expectations, everything. But I, in the back of the mind, “Bloody, who the hell are you? I don't remember you. I probably might have met you once, it's not more than two for not more than two hours, but who are you? I mean, I have no picture, I have no memory of meeting you or blah blah.” All right. So, I'm like, okay. And then I say my father is involved in this, and that I met all your family, you haven't met my father. I need you to meet my father, and then we'll take it from there. He said, “Okay, next weekend I'm coming and meeting your dad.” Okay, so I'm assuming next weekend he’s coming and will meet my dad and then we will have a discussion further. No, it didn't happen that way. So, what happened was he call his sister. What discussion happened; I don't know. So, the entire time, within ten minutes, as soon as I hung up the phone with him, they started calling us back for congratulations for the wedding. And I'm like, so he told his sister that its yes, it's a yes, but I'm going to go and meet her father next week. He didn't say, he should have said that he wants to go and meet her father next week and then we will decide it, didn't come that, it did not come with this way. It says that. Okay. It's a yes. Done, done deal between both of us. And I'm going to go and meet her father next week. So, I– now my family's congratulated me, the whole town is calling me because everybody is a family. Everybody knew. And his sister's father-in-law, I think it was his 70th or 75th birthday. And surprisingly, our family was probably not invited or invited, I don't know, maybe my grandfather went, I don't remember and I'm like, in that in that ceremony birthday party everybody was like, “Okay now we have a wedding coming soon.” Everybody was happy because everybody married within the community. So that it was celebrations, there was an additional way to celebrate, a reason to celebrate on that day. So, I'm like, I'm not in that party. People are celebrating, and I'm getting married, and I don't know who the hell this man is. I'm upset, I'm quiet, I didn't react, I didn't speak a word to my mom, anything. I said to myself, my dad should have been given his respect, that he should have been given the choice to decide whether he wants so-and-so person for his daughter or not, and my dad was completely sidelined. That's because my mom's father got so much involved, my dad's side of the family completely stayed away and aloof because they were not invited, not involved, and they were, everybody was upset. So, so was my dad. But I came back for my job, my work. I spoke to my manager. I said, “I probably am getting married. The responsibility that you have put on me, probably I'm not, will not be able to carry out.” Because he put me in a national brand team and out of, there were only six people in the team and it was my, only three weeks in the office. Within three weeks, if he trusted me to put in a national brand team for a national newspaper, I was like, I don't know what to do. And he said, “I will coach you. I am in the industry for more than twenty-five years and I will train you. So, you don't have to worry.” I said, “okay, I will. If you say so, if you trust me that I'm coachable, I will work with you.” But when I went back home, I said, I don't think my parents, my family has different plans, and I don't see working in the industry for a long time. So, he said, “We'll see how far it goes.” So, next week, he comes to meet me and he brings his two cousins along with him. I'm like, I probably met him, I probably not met him. I was not able to gather his face, to remember his face meeting with him. So, he said, “We went out for dinner, lunch after you met, and we had this discussion and we made fun of you for asking for the leftover food and giving it to the poor.” “Oh,” I said, “yeah, you made fun of me for asking for the leftover food, asking it packed, and giving it to the poor?” So, I said, okay, I'm getting married to that person. And he remembers that he made fun of me. I probably couldn't associate it, because we ordered food, and we had a leftover. So I asked to pack it up so I could get to give it to some poor on the street, and him and his cousin was there, me and my grandfather, the four of us went for lunch and the both of them started making fun of me for asking people to be packed and they thought they said we didn't realize you were giving it to the poor, we thought you were so hungry that you wanted to take the leftover for yourself, so we were making fun of you. So, it's okay, I think I didn’t want to go into any further discussion, I said. Anyways, so, so he came. The word was already out, that we are getting married, the marriage is finalized and I'm telling my dad that you should be in a position to say “no,” and I want you to say no. And my dad didn't stand by me, and he said, “I know the repercussions, I know you are a daughter’s father, you are my daughter and I want– don't want any negative repercussions on you from society, because I know the society, I'm not saying no.” And when my dad said that I had no choice, but I said, “Okay.” So, I said, “Okay, then can I have a say that I don't want to get married for the next twelve months? Will have an engagement, and let's keep an engagement period for twelve months. And then– then we can get married after twelve months.” My mom said, “No, you have a past in this city. If your boyfriend comes to you, we don't know what he would do. We want you gone as early as possible.” I said, okay. So, I kept float, went flowing with the flow. I mean, I kept going with the flow, but at one point I was like I didn't know, I don't want to make these choices. This is forced, and not given a free freedom to say yes or no. It's just like, yes just say yes, there is no no. So the same thing happened, even during all the time, eleven years of married life. And when, when I delivered [Redacted], my son, was the first time I started saying “no.” I started standing up for myself and I took a stance. And it was looked up on that or now she has a son, and she will, because she has a son now, she will, she will have control, she will because she's a son's mother. And they wanted to break that relationship between the son and the mother. And they tried, they tried a lot. My mother would put me, try to put me down, “So what you have is son?” And my husband, ex-husband would say, “I have to break, I have to break– break your relationship.” So he made every attempt to separate the mother and the son, even before we got separated.
[01:00:50]
So, when we got married, again, I requested that we keep a small wedding. I didn't want to do it big one. They all said yes to me on my face. So I said, okay we'll have not more than two hundred people. We made a list, and I spent time discussing which, who to invite or not to invite. Ten days before the wedding, I come to know that there are fifteen hundred people already coming to the wedding and they are, and they are falling short of invitation cards, so they are printing more. And there's more coming. I said, two hundred is okay, I can say two hundred to three hundred. It's okay, fifteen hundred and more and you guys are printing more invitation cards because you fall short of invitation cards? My dad says, “You don't have to pay for it. Why are you concerned? You just have to look pretty and stand there.” I said, “I have no say on my own wedding?” But that's how it is there for everybody. Just look pretty, you do your best, be happy. You don't have to worry about anything. You don't have to pay any bills. You don't have to do anything. You just have to look pretty happy. And with that said I don't agree, but I spoke to a couple of my friends, and she said, “Yeah, this is how it happened to us, also. We didn't get to calculate how many people are coming or not. It was told who and what we're not doing what was not even as they would. They each were given fifty or sixty cards to invite their school and college friends, that's about it. And nobody, nobody– all– all the expenses were taken by the care of the men. And you just tell them how much you need for your shopping and parlor and the men will bring you the money, that's that, done. You don't have to, you don't have to plan anything, you don't have to plan about any expenses. No. That's– that's normal. So that was the– when I went and spoke to my friends, they said, “What are you complaining about? It is normal. This is how we got married.” I said, okay. So, so I had probably for fifteen hundred to seventeen hundred people in the wedding. And the only concern I had was all the expenses was not shared between both the families. Only my father had to take care of the expenses of the wedding, so I'm like, there has to be a limit. My dad says, “I don't care how many people they invite even if they are inviting thousand people, it is our family because we are all related to each other. So it's just a real family reunions and if I don't call them, he calls them there. They are coming on somebody's invitation and it's all okay.” And so, I thought, okay. So, the problem began when my dad and mom overdid it. They were supposed to– in our culture, in my family, you have to go and invite in person. So, if you have thousand people, a thousand invitation cards for the wedding, you basically go to a thousand households in person and invite them. Okay, so now I, my parents left the home, left Pune, and said, “We'll go to Mumbai, we’ll come back, take a day off, and then go back to down south to the hometown, and then to my Nana's house and all other neighboring towns and villages.” So, after going to Mumbai, my mom or dad, whoever said, “Why to waste time, it's a four-hour journey back to Pune and it is a four-hour journey to Mumbai, so it's the same distance. So, we might as well go there instead of going to Pune, we will save at least five to eight to ten hours, right? And one whole day.” So, they called me from Mumbai that we are done now giving out all the invitations in the neighborhood of Mumbai, which was almost one hundred and fifty invitations, and now, instead of coming here, that we are going to directly there where that they do it? They are. There. They are in the hometown and in the neighboring towns for two and a half days. Without any break, they distribute more than five hundred invitations there.
[01:05:50]
When we come home, they come home back right, my dad has a heart attack. My dad has a heart attack. He's at work. He can't sense it coming. He probably gave the– he's the head of the department accounts– he gave the keys to his subordinate, probably somehow didn't tell anybody, anybody what was happening, walked out of the office, stop the rickshaw, told the rickshaw, “Take me to the hospital, and if anything happens to me call my, my brother, doctor brother, and tell him you were taking me to the hospital and ask him to come there directly. Its urgent.” So, he is there at the hospital. I am at work. Mom is at home. My uncle rushes to the hospital. He is– he is one of the directors of the board of the hospitals, because he was one of the founding members. So, so now my uncle calls and saying that, “My brother is coming, move him to the ICU immediately.” My uncle reaches there. Without waiting for my mom, without waiting for me, my uncle took all the cards, makes all of the medical decisions, he's under the scissors in the operation theater. I got a call– my manager gets a call that, “Your dad is in the hospital, they are looking for you.” I rushed to the hospital. The whole family of almost twenty, thirty people in the waiting room. For the first time I'm seeing my uncle who was a doctor, like, he's a lion figure for us in the family– he's in tears. And I'm like– in Indian culture we say, what is it called, whenever you add a new person to your family, or to your life even, it brings good luck or bad luck– so, I'm thinking my ex is finding bad luck, you know, taking my father away. I didn't know whether he was surviving or not. So, I asked my mom, “Did you check his horoscope, does he belong to any of these criteria?” And my mom says, “No, he's cleared.” Where is me did it come from? Because it was in the Indian horoscope, they can tell you who will bring you good luck and bad luck based on how it how their, the planets are spaced and placed in the horoscope, and when, and when I rejected couple of boys, it was because of that placement at the horoscope. So, I said, “He's clear of all that.” Saying, “Where is it coming from then?” I said.
So, then my mom said that we overdid it and he's stressed, probably, because of that journey. We should have– we did not, he did not have time to rest, and we should have taken a day or two days break. So, I said, “Why, when I was telling you push it for twelve months, I had instead of doing it and why would you want to get it done in two months?” She wouldn’t listen. So now I'm calling him, and I'm calling him, saying, “My dad has a problem.” And I'm thinking of pulling out of the wedding or postponing the wedding because I don't know how long he's going to be in the hospital, and in India the insurance doesn't pay up front. You pay out of pocket, get all the bills from the hospital, give it to the insurance, and they will reimburse to you. So, all the money that was set aside for the wedding expenses went to the hospital bills, though we got a huge discount because of my uncle. Many of the doctors’ fees, everything was waived, because it is a family matter. Many of the doctors did not charge anything for– for their services that they offered. The hospital gave us a big discount, lot of, I mean, so we always got more than more than fifty, sixty percent discount on the hospital bill. But even then, that forty of fifty expense was a huge expense, going out to right fifteen days before the wedding. And I didn't know if my dad was coming back or not, and how soon he can get back on to do all the wedding responsibilities because men do everything. Women are not supposed to do anything, so I assumed that some other men will jump into his responsibilities while he is getting better in the hospital. None of them did: my mom's brother and my mom's dad, who were the curtain pullers for making this wedding happen, stepped back. They didn't come in front and say, “Okay if you are unwell will take responsibility, you know?” And my mom’s– my dad's brothers’ cousins and my cousin, elder cousins said, “You didn't get us involved while finalizing the wedding, you didn't even tell who you're getting married to. We didn't get any time to interview him or to check his background, nothing and now you want us?” They wouldn't step in. So, there is nobody to do the responsibilities that a man or a father should be doing when my dad was hospitalized and was getting treatment and getting healed after the operation. So, I'm like, okay, let's call her, call it off or postpone, postpone the wedding. So, I'm calling him on the third day my dad is hospitalized and getting better, and I'm telling, I'm trying to call him. Two days, no phone calls, no reply to the phone calls, and I'm like– more than forty-five to fifty phone calls, missed calls, text messages– this man doesn't answer a phone, does not respond to the phone, and I'm like, “What kind of man am I marrying to?” I was looking for somebody who probably should have been more responsible to the new family that he is going to have. At least a phone call, at least a case of fruits. The drive to Pune was like four, four and a half hours drive, maybe he could have come and met the family. Nothing. Nothing from his family, nothing from him. And I'm like, okay. So, he already knows because of my text messages that my dad is hospitalized, there's no response. So, he is figuring out with his family whether to call or not, to marry or not, to go further ahead or not, and blah, blah blah. And I'm like, okay. And then on the second day, late night, or third day morning he calls me, and he says, “I was waiting for my mom's decision for what to do.” So, I,like, his mom didn't give him the permission to call me or to reply to my calls or messages, so he didn’t call. And I was like, “I don't want to marry this man. I know what I'm getting in to. And you are an adult, you are four years or five years older than me, if there is a family emergency and you cannot respond to a phone call, and you're waiting for your mom to give you the permission to call back, in a case of emergency– no, you know what, I don't think. I don’t want to get into a relationship.” But my dad opened his eyes on the second or the third day, but he was still not here. After the operation he was still in, I won’t say, a coma but he was– he was under the influence of medication and he where– he didn't wake up for almost one and a half, two days. When he woke up, I was in the hospital and when he opened his eyes for the first time I'd said, “You know, dad, let's call it off.” He said, “Give, give me one promise,” he said that “you are not calling it off.” I said okay, and I told my dad to stop being film-y me with– such dialogues are very famous in Indian movies, such situations, and dialogues. I said, “I don't want you be film-y, let's talk practical.” And he said, “No, don't call off the wedding.” So, I said, okay, so then I said, “I want a promise from you that you are not going to consume any food or drinks other than what the hospital staff gives you.” Because I lost a family member for that nonsense. My mom's uncle, younger uncle, met with a car accident, a vehicle accident, and he was– he was driving from one place and coming back to home. He went to a customer's shop to pick up the cash payment and he was driving back home in the afternoon. It was an isolated cart, he was, and it was an isolated cart. There– there was not too much of traffic and nobody found him for a long time, so he went into a coma, didn't get, didn't get medical or support for almost the first three hours. And then they moved over to the, they moved him in the hospital. They– they didn't have enough for medical supplies to take care of the kind– the kind of accident that he met with because it was a brain injury. They moved into Pune in the hospital, and when he was recalled, getting almost ready to recover, getting better, a family member brought him an orange juice with ice cubes in it. And he died of pneumonia. So, I was like, “Why would somebody wanted to feed a patient with so much of ice?” And she– the lady, the family member, insisted that because she has taken so much effort of juicing with oranges, that the patient has to drink it, and they cannot say no. And she forced, the– the ice cubes and the juice on him while– while he was in the ICU, not even in a separate room. And within no time he died of pneumonia. And I'm like, I said, “I don't care whether it is my mom or whether it is your sister, whoever, if they bring any outside food, you're not taking it. You are eating only the food that the staff is giving.” And he said, okay. Because I'm not going to be here all the time, I don't know who comes to meet you. Because when you are in the hospital, the whole family is in the hospital. Somebody’s around taking turns, and somebody is waiting and watching over you. So, and you are not just the husband or just the father, but you're also somebody’s son, somebody’s brother, somebody's uncle, and somebody’s friends, and somebody’s colleague. And everybody's there taking turns being with you for some time, nobody is leaving you alone. So, I would never know who's coming and taking care of you, sitting by your bed. So, he said okay. So we had a plan, and he said, okay.
[01:17:20]
So, he came back on the fifth day, and we were six days or six or eight days away from the wedding, and so now, what do we do now? So my mom said, “It's not possible for me to go and distribute the remaining invitations.” Now two hundred plus five hundred, or two hundred and four hundred with six hundred invitations are already gone, and there were still more to go. And I said okay. So, I said okay. So, then somebody suggested just send them by post, and people have already know that if my dad is in the hospital, so he won't be coming in person, so that should not be a problem. So, they posted another hundred two hundred invitations by post. And I said– because it was going by post, they said we will add more because not everybody will come. If you go in person, it is an obligation that you have to come, so might as well send two more. So when I was said I have my college friends and I have my office colleagues that I need to invite for the wedding, my mom and my mom's dad gave me a reason that we don't have enough invitation cards. So, what I did was I took one invitation card and I said, college friends and I wrote almost ten or fifteen of their names and handed it over to what person has said, “You know what, share it with everybody.” And I did the same for my MBA, and I said, “You know what MBA friends,” and I shared their names, and I gave it to one person and said, “just give, give it to everybody. I cannot go and meet everybody in person, and I don't have a car.” The only two things I did was I sent two mails– because two of my MBA friends had got a job in Bangalore after college, after the exam, after the MBA they moved from the college– and I said, “How do you want to send the invitation? Do you want It by text message or cell phone? Or do you want an email I can scan and send you? So here they said, “You know, how it works in India.” So that means they wanted the physical invitation card. So, I said, “Give me the address, I'll mail it to you.” So, I took only two cards extra and I made two of them, one of them. And my grandfather, saw the names, that there were male friends, and he decided not to post it. So, and then they were angry that they never got the invitation. So, all other friends from MBA got the invitation, except these two and these two words bruised. So, they were like, “How can you not invite us?” I said, “We already spoke over the phone. There could have been something that have might have happened that the invitation had not reached you.” So, one of them had expressed his interest and had proposed me, so probably my mom might have thought that he might create a problem in the wedding, and she didn't probably didn't want him. That could be one reason. Well, I don't think so. If I was comfortable with my friends, I don't think somebody else should have any problem because I knew my friends better than anybody else. So, I said these are not that kind of friends that I have. If a no is a no, they honored it. That doesn't mean our relationship ends. So, but then I think my grandfather and my mom had a decision. They– they did not invite, they did not send a post to those two invitations. So, I said, “Oh.” But that hurt it, hurt my relationship with my close two friends. So, I'm going– we got married and all this. And they had said, on the groom’s side said, “So that we will have not more than two hundred people. You, we don't care how many people you invite, why we will have only had two hundred people, because it is your, you are doing the expenses and we are not sharing the expenses.” Then there is a– there is a discussion of how much to spend and how many gifts to give. Like, you have– you have to specify that we will give you gold, gold, gold jewelry worth of this much. They came up with a figure for equal figure, that the bride will get x amount of gold jewelry from the groom's family and from the bride's family and that belongs to her. So, everything was taken care of because we were just lucky enough that it was a common family and common double invitations, but when they said two hundred people, we assume that when it's two hundred people of a family of four, so makes it fifty, maybe sixty invitation cards their family printed more than five hundred invitation cards. And after my dad came out of the hospital, they had, they assume that the wedding is going to happen because they were sure. As soon as my dad came out of the hospital, they printed more invitations and sent out more invitations without informing us.
[01:22:47]
On the day of the wedding, there are some thousand people. And when the more than fifteen hundred or seventeen hundred people showed up, there was not enough food, right? We didn't care if people come, but we have to make arrangements for food, for chairs, for, for space, because we did not book such a big space, right? So now I am looking. So many people stopped by, showed up for the wedding, and then it was, there was an emotional attached that my dad met with a, had to be hospitalized and people found it a reason to come meet with him. So, more people came, because some, some way or the other, they are all cousins, right? So, they wanted to meet. So now my dad– I was Looking for my dad, for something, and I couldn't find him, and somebody told me that he's talking to the caterer. So, I go to the kitchen area and I'm looking for my dad. My dad is on his knees, almost on his knees, begging him to bring the ration in from anywhere and cook more food. Begging. And I'm like, seeing my dad and this situation, I said, “Papa, what are you doing?” He said, “We don't have enough food. How can we feed everybody?” “So, what's the plan here?” He said, “I’m saying that I'm just asking him to get his own ration and we will figure out the payment later. Just, just make sure nobody goes unfed.” And I'm looking at my dad and I'm saying, “Why can't I have a word and why can't we have a better plan of action? Why it does it have to be like this?” And I'm like, there's no answer. I mean that's no answer. So, I'm like okay. So, my dad is shivering. He cannot stand straight; he cannot walk properly. I insisted that you get a wheelchair, and we will have a person take care of you all the time and he's like, “I don't want to be on wheelchair in my daughter's wedding.” I said, “Papa, you are not even out of the hospital less than ten days, it's and it's a major surgery that you underwent, and you know.” So again, I don't know. So, I'm, like, helpless and I can't do much about it, and then the wedding happens. Things go. And so, he decides, his family decides, comes and tells us that we will not accept any gifts. And then we said, okay. So, we print on the invitation card that no gifts. So, but his family doesn't print the same. So now there's a confusion, his guests are bringing gifts and my guests came without the gifts. So, my– everyone was confused on what kind of communication is this? So when, when the, when you decide on that, when the groom's family insists no gifts, we thought it's going to be mutual for both. So, both of the invitation cards will be no gifts. But they said it was only for us, it was not for them, they were accepting gifts that everybody was bringing up for them, and my guests, my guests came without the gifts, and they felt offended, and so did and so did me and my parents. So, like, what is this. So, so anyway, so all this is happening and then we are going– now we move, we go to Mumbai. We go for a honeymoon, we come back, we moved to Mumbai, Mumbai again. He has his problems. So, we don't spend enough time knowing each other, understanding each other. We hardly had two and a half months. It was my job, new job that was keeping me busy– the wedding preparations, the wedding shopping, so we hardly knew each other as a person. First thing, we never spoke about any issues or anything else. The only sentence he said once to me, “Past doesn't matter, what matters is the future.” And it's about making our future happy and stable. So when I try to tell my past, about my boyfriend, he didn't want it to know if I had any past relationships or anything. Family history, nothing, nothing, nothing. There was no discussion on the family history. So I was like, my family history was not shared, neither was his. So I didn't know that they have a– he has a– he has a twin brother and sister who are younger to him and he– they have strained relationships with the sister and her– the in-laws.
Because in India, when you get married, a brother can get only married when all the sisters are married off, unless there is a huge gap, age difference between them. So even if you are the elder brother, you have to wait till the younger sisters get married. And once they are gone, then you get married. I don't know what that means, how would that work, and who decided that. But that's how it happens. So, the boys have to wait till the sisters get married. It's his responsibility that the sisters get married first. So, his elder sister was married first, his younger sister was married, then he got married and I didn't know that there was a, he had twins, I only knew he had, he had a younger sister. I didn't know anything about that when they introduce me to him, then I came to know that he has a younger brother and who has a twin sister, and she is married. And they– they have a strained relationships with the family, and she's not allowed to contact her mom and dad and maternal family. So now, come honeymoon, we are sitting and talking and the only topic he had to talk was his sister's strained relationship and his brothers, younger brothers, inability to make a living for himself. These were the only topics, all the five days we had together, that was the only topic he would bring up. There was no third topic. There was you, me, us, that thing, us, nothing. Nothing.
So, I'm going, I'm not your social worker or a psychologist. If you want to tell me as a story of your history of– of your family relationships, I'm listening, I understand. But if– I don't have a solution to their situation. Like I don't know, I don't know. I just, knowing about it from you, I don't know anything beyond it, right? So, I don’t know why he got upset that I don't have a solution to their situation. I said, “I don't know because I don't have a solution to– to your situation.” And then he's– he got angry. He expressed his frustration that I didn't bother to ask about his sister, why she did not come for the wedding, the younger sister, who lives in London. So, I said, “I don't even know what I came to know now, in honeymoon, that you have a younger sister, you have a strained relationship, and she lives in London. You told me, you never told me before, during the engagement period, that you have a sibling.” So, I don't know what his expectations of me were, but I'm like, okay. So now, we, in India, people go on a, there is a something called as a honeymoon package, an independent honeymoon. You go by yourself, just you and your husband, or you and your partner, or there is a group package. That means the tours and travel agencies will book a destination and a date and time, couples go in groups– as maybe a group of thirty couples will go on a honeymoon to the same destination and stay in the same hotel. So, it's, they save on more money. So not everybody, not everybody is rich, and not everybody can have an individual or solo honeymoon. So they go on a group package where they save money and you make friends and they have people who are just newly married couples and everybody is doing the same thing. So, my ex-husband decided he doesn't want to have a group, he wants a solo. So, we– we both go to and more issues. And then, there he starts telling me about his family history, but she should have told me beforehand. And he was– was angry that I did not know it beforehand. I'm like, how am I supposed to know it? He wanted a solution. I don't have a solution for you, not on a honeymoon. So anyway, so now he creates an image for me that I have a problem in front of the other couples that came that we made, met with living the same hotel. They also came on their honeymoon, they also came on a solo package, and we were like, okay. So– so– so he became best of the friends with them, as if he does not have any family problems at home, and I was like spending time by myself while he's having fun with the– with the other couples. And when him and I are together, all alone, he's complaining of all the problems he has in his family. And I was left like, “What am I supposed to do by myself now?” When we came back, he went back to India, I was expected to stay with his family for a month or so. He was supposed to come pick me up on the last day. We were supposed to, from there we were supposed to go to my mom's family. There is a ritual that we need to go or do before I go and join him back in with him in Mumbai. So we got to get it done in Pune. And my dad says that “Now that you are here we wanted to do the marriage registration immediately because I don't know when you will come next time. You have taken a day off, my dad’s will finish it, this legality. All you need is a picture and a signature, all the paperwork is ready. You just need to sign the paper and go in front of the register, marriage register, and, and let him take a picture.”
[01:33:14]
So, so he got upset that my dad is forcing an activity on him. So to which he retaliates to me. So, what he does to me is, when we are in the middle of Mumbai, I don't know– now I know, but at that time I didn't know – what that area was called. So, there is a rounded circle, and he drops me on the– on the street. “This is your fifty-rupee bill,” he gave me actually one dollar and just fifty rupees and he said, “Figure your way out home. This is the house keys. I have to go to the office right now.” Five o’clock or four o’clock in the afternoon, when it's the office closing time. So, I said, okay. So now I, so I'm saying I have the cash, but it will be, if I kept it out, it will be at least three hundred, three hundred rupees. Fifty rupees is not going to be enough. If I take a rickshaw, it's going to be at least one hundred and fifty to two hundred rupees, it's not going to be fifty rupees. And so, I stand on the street, I find a police, traffic police, and I asked him, “This is the place I have to go do, what should I do?” He said, “That's the bus stop, just take this number bus and get down here, and from there you take a rickshaw.” So, I listened to the police, the traffic police, and then I take the bus, I get done at a certain place, I take the rickshaw back home, and I am done, like maybe thirty-five, forty rupees, right? So, he's asking me for the rest of the money when he comes back, “How much do you have left?” I'm like okay. So, he comes home and at eleven o’clock, I am like I have no idea what he has in the kitchen or not. I'm trying to open and see what he has. And he comes at eleven o’clock. He said, “Oh the dinner is not ready.” I said, “No, I didn't know I was supposed to get it ready.” So, we go home, and he said, “Make sure the dinner is ready tomorrow onwards.” I said, “Sure, why not?” So, I started cooking. He didn't want a lunchbox in the beginning because he said the office provides food and lunch. So I said, okay. So I started making lunch. I started making large for– for myself and dinner for both of us. And then I'm home, and I know I have one week's time before I joined the office, because I did not leave my job. They didn't want with me to leave the job, so they gave me a transfer with the Mumbai office. After taking the– so I started taking the train to the Mumbai office from, because it's almost an hour and a half journey, door-to-door, and that was too much for me in a new town in the first week. And then it was not, that was not the end of the journey. Like, if you have to go from one place to other, you have to always take a train, like the subway train, and then you have to either take a cab or you have to walk over to the office. And I'm like, I'm come from a city where every person at the age of sixteen has their own bike or a moped, and you just have to be on your bike, and you are on one part of the city to the other. So this public transport, this is what didn't work well with me. Come the first monsoon rain, I was completely lost with those delays of trains, trains. And on the very first day of the rain, of the rain of the 2004 monsoon, I slipped and hurt myself on the train platform. I slipped, I hit my head, and women want to board the train because they didn't want to miss the train, because they have to clock their timecards, they started stamping on my stomach and belly and climbing up on this train. So now here, I am a half unconscious, somebody I know, two women or two girls, probably college going girls, picked me up, give me a hand, pushed the women aside, and pulled me up. I know somebody stamped on my chest here, and I'm like, okay now what do I do? So, they push all women aside to take me inside of the train, they asked a lady to get up so that I could sit, and she was not willing to get up or give her seat and they said, “She fell down, she is injured, she needs to sit there.” I'm sitting there and there was no police complaint done, there was no ER, there was no EMT, nothing. And I'm sitting there, and they go to their office, and I'm sitting in the train to the last stop and I'm like, walking to my office with full swollen face and swollen hands and shoulders. And my manager looks at me and said, “What happened?” I said, “I fell down.” He came to leave me, and he said, “You're not waiting here, you go home.” I go home for two days. I don't come to work. And I'm trying to say, “I need to go to a doctor. Do you know any doctor in the neighborhood?” He said, “No. I don't have time. The only doctor I know is my cousin who is an hour and a half drive from here and I don't have time. So, we will go and see him on Sunday.” So, I'm like waiting the whole week to be taken to the doctor because he didn't think it necessary for me to take to the hospital, or to take to anywhere. So, I called my mom, and I said this is what happened, and my mom says, “It will go away, you don't have to worry more.” I'm like, “I threw up. Do you know that what that means?” I had– I hit my head and they were not taking it seriously. So now my manager gets upset because I am still going to the office, starting the third day, with all that swelling on my body. So he takes me to a hospital, to the doctor in town. And the doctor first thinks that him and I are husband and wife, so he thought starts talking to my manager as if he's my husband. And my manager clears it up, “I'm not her husband, I'm her manager at work. She's my staff, and this happened to her a week ago, and her family is not willing to take her to the doctor, so I just want to make sure she's okay.” So, he took me to the doctor. He checked everything, he said everything is fine, but you might need more tests. So that was so then he this happens and my, my manager gets up and gets mad and– and people are very protective, if you see, and they are very personal level to an extent where my– my manager took my cell phone from my hand, he took it in his hand, he typed a message to my husband, “I want to divorce you right now,” and he sent it to him. I said, “Why did you want to do that?” And nobody will complain, it's very normal of– of people to do that. So he, my husband, was like, “Okay I'll take you to the doctor.” And then he took me to the doctor, to his cousin who lives one-and-a-half-hour drive away. And then he says no, she's just really shocked, when the shock, when the effect of the shock will go away, she'll be fine. And here I am with a swollen hand, a swollen head, swollen face, swollen feet and so I called my mom and I said, “I have a problem, I need help.” And by that time, I had started, it was a time of the, of the month, I got my period. The problem was after that accident, when people stomped on my belly, I started getting periods three times a month, and it was complete chaos for me, because too much of hormonal imbalance, too much of confusion, and I couldn't concentrate any, couldn't be stable. And so, I go to– my mom comes, she picks me up and she says, “Okay, let's go home.” So, I go and meet my dad's cousin who's a doctor. He does all the tests, and he says,” Everything is normal. There is nothing.” “But, but,” I said, “you can see the swelling. It's there. Everything is swollen.” So, I go to my– my doctor who is an ayurvedic doctor, who, with whom I have been taking, I had been taking a treatment since my seventh grade, since the time I first had my period. So, I go to him to have my show him. He checks my nerves and pulse and he's like, okay. So he gives me a list of medications to– to take. At that time, he said, “You might have a lot of miscarriages, but don't give up hope. everything will be all right.” So, I said, okay. So since then, I had six or five or six miscarriages before I had the two children. So, there was not even one minute of emotional support that he gave me in all those miscarriages. Never. It was only my problem, not his. It was my loss, not his. It was my grief, not his. Never, never, ever once. And expressing grief means I was doing a melodrama and I was overreacting. So anyways, so– and I had a mental problem, so he wanted me to go see a psychiatrist instead of grieving at home for the loss of the baby that I had. So, when I took his treatment, I had these two children. I had almost five miscarriages before [Redacted], and one miscarriage before Ravi came. And so now I have them there. Now he goes to the court and say he did everything for them; he change their diapers, he cooked food for them, he took them to the school, he gave their showers, the two children are not affectionate and attached to the mother, the two children are attached only to the father, and he wants the custody. And the– the judges trusted– anyways, and I'll come to that later.
[01:43:02]
But so now we are in Bombay, we are there, and then he all of a sudden, he says, I start, I– I started making clients, I brought, started bringing our corporate clients and business to the newspaper, because my job was to get a print advertisement in the newspaper printed from a client. So it was business, it was money, talking money to the clients, bringing in five hundred thousand or maybe ten hundred thousand, one million or two million worth of advertisements from one client. So, it was talking big money. And it started hurting him when I would share what, what I do at work. Because he was curious what kind of work I do, so I would tell him. So, it started making him uncomfortable that he is an IT guy doing coding sitting behind a computer and his wife is in front– is out in the public, in the corporate, talking money. So, he, all of a sudden, he said, “I wanted to, I wanted to pick go into management. I don't want to be into the solution or recording part, I want to go to the management.” And I said, “Sure why not?” So, he said, I want to do MBA. So, I said fine, go ahead. And then I thought he was going to do MBA in India. So first, he said, “I want to try it out, whether it is for me or not.” So, he went and enrolled in a college for DBM, diploma in management, business management. And then he said, okay, if it was one year course, he was attending the college after– for the first one year while we were in India. And then he said, “Okay, I can do it. Now I want to do an MBA.” Okay, I said, okay. So now he said, “I don't want to do it here. I want to do abroad.” Sure, why not? So, but what's the plan? He said, “I will give an exam, I will go to America, I'll give the exam and I will aim for and caught MBA, business school in Europe.” I said, “Sure, and then what?” Then he said, “Then we'll come back to India, probably.” I said, okay. So, then I was in a glitch, so whether I am leaving my job, leaving my career, whether I should go to a school along with him. I didn't know anything. Right, so he, he wanted, he says, “Oh, I got my approval from my office. I'm moving to America and you; you have to sign these papers. Everything is ready again for you. And this is for the Visa, this is your appointment with the US Consulate for the Visa and, and you are coming and staying with me in America.” I said, “Okay but you never discussed anything with me, like, you only talked of giving your exam and studying in Europe, why are we going to America then?” “No, I just want to give my GMAT from America because I will have better options to choose from the colleges.” I said, “It's the same thing, they're ours. There are Indian students going to Oxford and Cambridge and all kinds of colleges to study. Why would you think America giving the exam, GMAT exam, would give– make it any different what location you give it from?” “No, you wouldn't understand.” I said okay. So I, in the meanwhile, I left my job because my health didn't support me, the travel and the commute it– was it– and ended up getting the periods three months or three times a week. It was just completely messed up. So, I said, “You know what? I'm going back to college. I will do my MBHR, and instead of a client facing job, I'll take an administrative job.” So, I made an application to my college where I did my MBA, in marketing and branding, and I said, I want to apply for, get the dual MBA in human resources, but I cannot come because I live in Mumbai and the colleges in Pune, so I cannot attend at the college, I need an excuse. They said the only excuse is if you get in writing that you have a full-time job. And by that time, I had left the job. So, I said, what do I do? So, a friend of him, luckily, gave me an offer to work in his company as a part-time HR. It was not an intern position, it was mostly a manager position, but I was doing basically, he wanted to introduce an HR department. There was a– he had an administration department, operations and administrations, and he, and he wanted to split the HR responsibilities and, and make a completely different department. So, he said, “Can you set up a department for me?” I said, “Sure why not?” So, he gave me all the responsibilities of moving the responsibility of the HR jobs from the operations and administration department, and make a different, separate department that can do only HR jobs within the company. And then so he gave me a letter saying that, “She's working with me and then she should be excused from attending the college, because she is having a real-life experience in the corporate so-and-so.” The college approved me to only come to give the exam. So, the– I had the syllabus books, I had everything else with me, I was working, and then I only went there to give the exams, to get my degree. So while I was working with it, I had numerous various experiences, and one of the good experiences was, I got to see how an infrastructure company works. I met with him and I– we hired more than one hundred engineers. They were the– they took contracts from various government agencies, to put the fiber, the fiber optics across the country for the internet and Wi-Fi services that India was working towards. Like, that was the first of a kind project, nobody knew what to do, how to do. And this company had experience doing it on a small scale, and they were learning, and they had a tie up with few companies who would teach them knowledge transfer, and they would do it, and they would teach their engineers how to get it done. So from reliance information data everybody, everybody was a client. So, when we were setting up this company, this department, we were hiring, we were making policies, we were make– a putting stuff together for the company that he wanted to split the company because all your– he had one company and it was doing four different kinds of projects. Now, he wanted a parent company, and he wanted four different companies under the umbrella doing four different kinds of projects. So, from putting the traffic security cameras, or doing the building of sort of security system cameras, everything– he wanted to split all different kinds of businesses into four different companies, and so I helped him set up and do all those things. So, it's a great experience.
[01:50:21]
The only– the issue that happened was when you are a family member and you are friends, it becomes too personal, there is no, you need to draw lines. And at one person– point of time, it was boundaries crossed. Those boundaries were crossed and at that made me uncomfortable. The owner was my dad's niece’s nephew, and he was a college friend for my husband, and was a distant cousin from me. Both of them were distant cousins from me. So, working for the family and friend, it became too much when he started inviting himself for breakfast and lunch without asking. He started in interfering in personal matters between me and him. He started assuming that there is a problem and started giving relationship– relationship coaching making him, making my ex believe that I complained and making me believe that he complained when nobody complained about anything. So, a lot of things happened. Even, he went to the extent of wanting to check the charts of the candidates before hiring, okay? And I said, this is not how hiring works. He said, “This is my company I want to run it this way.” Okay, I will do my usual work of screening, screening the candidate, so you are the person who's going to make the offer. How you decide whom to offer and whom not to offer is up to you. I'm not going to force you. But I said, “It's not okay for you to create an astrological chart for your candidate, looking at their biodata and date of birth. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want somebody else to do it for me.” But a lot of people are– people are doing it so, and a lot of people do it and now astrologers was actually reach out to the employers with this particular service that, “We offer such service. That if you have an applicant, all we need is date of birth and his info, personal information and will create a chart for you and will tell you whether he's a good candidate match for you or not.” And it's now being accepted in the– as an industry-wide way of screening a candidate in many places, and for me it was not an okay thing. So I– so this was happening, he just decided okay, “I'm flying next week to America, we are emptying and vacating the apartment and you're going back.” And I said, “Where am I going back?” So he said, “You're going and staying with my parents.” I said, “But I have an exam coming in May, why would you want me to go and stay with your parents?” So, he said, “Nothing to it, you're married to me. I cannot leave you just like that. You have to go and stay with my parents, because if we did– were not an independent family, we would anyways, be staying with our parents, my parents, we would have stayed with them.”
[01:53:53]
So, I said, okay. So, I am, like, okay. So, he leaves, he gives me ten days or fifteen days to the end of the month to vacate the apartment on my own. He has not instructed any of the men in his family to come help me. He has not requested any of the men in my family to come help me. And here I am in Mumbai, all on my own, staying here, figuring out how I'm going to empty this entire apartment. Who, what I'm going to do with this, and where am I going next with all this baggage? So, in– from America, he calls me. By this time, I already have a stamp off on my– I have my password but not the stamp. I just have a date for my visa and I'm like, okay. So he calls me and he says, “I spoke to my company,” because it was a company given flat and the furniture was given by the firm, the company, the car was given by the company. “I bought everything from them, so we don't have to give it back to them. Can you sell it on my behalf?” I said, “Why? You should have just given back to them. What is the idea of buying it from then, and me, finding a seller in ten days? Like, what are we making here? What's the idea? We are not here to make money. We would not even make a thousand rupees or maybe five thousand rupees from that. What you just– It's the companies of property, just give it back to them. Let them figure out what to do with it. Why are you telling your wife, ‘Just go around finding a seller.’” “I want you to give some exposure.” “And so, what exposure? It was just common sense. Why I need to go around selling furniture that we don't need to sell, you just return it back to the company because it's company's property. Why did you buy it from them?” So, you know, so now I find a somebody who wants to buy it. It happens to be my college friend, her brother-in-law got married. For her brother-in-law and sister-in-law, she wanted furniture, new furniture to the bedroom. I've sent the pictures in my email, and she said they liked her it, her in-laws liked it. It's in good condition. Have it moved to Pune. So now I had to find out a transport company who would come and take all the furniture and move it to Pune. So now she wouldn't pay for the transportation. She said, “I'm not paying anything extra than what you said.” I said, “Why would I put two thousand, three thousand from my pocket to have it transported to, to Pune?” Okay, she said, “I will split it.” So, we– I split half the amount and I said, what am I making anything out of it, right? I'm spending out of my, out of my pocket. So, she takes it. Now my husband comes to know that I have confirmed to deal. Now he says, “Oh, there are three more apartments of my colleagues who are, are getting vacated and they are moving out or they're moving back to America and now that you are able to sell this for a set of furniture, they these three apartments or two apartments have the same set of furniture given by the company. Can you sell it all again?” I said, “Just give it back to the company. Why are you forcing me? I have other things to do. More importantly, I have to study because I have, in two, three weeks, I have an exam to give. It's a final exam. I have not studied anything, but the whole year I have not attended a lecture. I know nothing on what is going to be in the exam. I need to read at least eight books and I'm not I'm not a fast reader and I take time. so, I will do no good.” So now I have to– he– he says, “Okay I have to find another set of couple or family to sell those two sets of furniture again.” And I'm, like, busy doing all these things, and I'm why are you making me do this thing? So now his own– a– his friend, the owner of the company who I worked with, came to know that such a set of furniture is waiting to be sold. So, he comes and says, “I have two company apartments. They are empty and vacant. I'll take all the furniture for this apartment, and I will pay you cash.” I said, okay sure, no problem. So, I have it moved, and I said, you know what, I'm not even making any cash out of this, there's no profit in doing all this. I don't know why he made me do all of this. It's a waste of time and energy. So, when I said the words, “I'm not making anything out of this,” he took it the wrong way. He's assumed that I'm trying to make him believe that I did not do any profit, but I did. So he went to an extent of finding out who the accounts head of my ex-husband's company is. He contacted him directly without me or my ex introducing him to them. And then he asked how much did we pay to buy all that furniture from him, to validate whether he got the correct price on it. And I lost my temper. I said, “The whole deal was fifteen thousand dollars per set. How much do you think you would have paid if you would buy it outside? At least two, like, two hundred thousand. Furniture that was used for four years or two years for, for that worth of 200,000, you're getting for fifteen or twenty thousand. I mean, how much cheaper do you think somebody could sell it for?” And then, “I'm like I don't think so. I made any money.” And he wanted to validate whether I'm speaking the truth or not. That created a lot of tension between both of us, that we had a healthy relationship between both of us as a employee and employer. and I lost my temper and at that point I forgot that he was my employer, or ex-employer, and I just told him, “You, you’re crossing your limits by reaching out to my husband's employer without our permission, and what without us intervening or without us introducing you to them. So if you had questions, I would have asked for the copy of the– the contract, between the– my ex-husband and his office accounts team, and I have given it to the copy to you. Why did you reach out to him directly? That's not acceptable, its crossing.” So, he didn't like it, my husband didn't like it that I stood up for my husband. “He's my friend. How dare you say that to my friend?” “I'm standing by you. He tried to create a negative impression of you in front of your employer. He's the person who's signing your salary check every month, and you don't want to be in his good books, but you care about in the good books of your friends. I said, “Deal with it. I don't care.” So that was the last time, and the first time, I stood up for my husband in public. And I didn't– I said, “You know what? If somebody's mocking you, putting you down, if you're wrong and trying to prove you can, if you are correct and trying to prove you wrong, not my business. You figure it out”. My parents were not happy that he did not take their permission, he did not tell them that he is moving to America. There was no sit-down discussion as a family, nothing. He just left and just expected that me, that I would join. And I'm saying, okay. So, I was on my way alone from Pune to Mumbai for the visa stamp to the consulate, US Consulate, and in the– in the– in the bus I was thinking, “Should I go back home, ran away? Should I take the stamp and never go beyond the flight? Should I ever join or reunite with him, or just stopped answering and block him completely from my life?” And during this time, I've had to go give my exam, my mother-in-law who refused to let me stay in her house. “You are a newly married one. It will be difficult for you to get accustomed in our family. Why don't you just stay with your mom and dad. Your exam is in Pune. Why do you want to stay here? Blah, blah, blah.” And I will, basically, she just said, you stay with your parents, don't stay with us. She picked up the phone and told my ex that I refused to stay and she, I’m not I'm not listening. So I'm like, okay, now I'm in my parents’ house there. The furniture has been sold out. There are only two pieces of furniture that I took with me was one computer table and a computer chair. I moved that because I was going to be living with my mom and dad, if I was going to be living with my mother-in-law that computer table and chair would be in their house, but because I was in my mom and dad’s I thought for study purposes, I said it would be easy for me to have it there. So, I just kept it, told the transporters not to give it to them, but bring it to– bring it to Pune. So I said, okay, his mother-in-law was not, my mother-in-law, his mom, was not happy with all the furniture that– one set, one set of furniture was given to her for free and said she was not happy with what she received, or I should say she wasn't satisfied with what she received. She was more concerned about that one table and one chair that I decided to use for myself while studying in my mom's house, in my parents’ house. So, she would call at least three times a day, “What do you, what do you plan to do with the table and the chair?” I said, “I'm studying right now. When I’m done, it will be sent to you. Because there is, my mom and dad have only one single bedroom apartment, and they don't have enough room for more furniture. They already have a king size bed in the bedroom, they cannot– they already have one computer table for my sister because she's– she was studying. And there was two armoires; there is one more computers, still one computer table, and one chair is going to be a too much of a hassle in–
[02:04:15]
[End of Recording Two]
[Beginning of Recording Three]
[00:00:00]
Too much of furniture to move around in the bedroom. So, it's not going to be here long for long, as soon as my exams are over, my studies is over. This table and chair will be sent to you because my mom doesn't want it. It's too much of furniture. She's already complaining.” So that answer was not enough for her. Even after giving this answer, she kept calling three times a day, “What do you plan to do with the table and the chair?” So, one day, I was probably too busy or away, and she called more than three times because I did not answer the phone. So finally, when Mom asks, “What is it? Why are you calling her so many times?” So, she said, “What are you going to do with the computer table and the chair?” My mom lost it. She said, “Why are you harassing my daughter for the computer table and the chair? If you want, we can buy you a new one. But if you don't need it, let her use it. She is studying, she needs it. When she's done studying, she's going to send it back over to you.” So, she didn't like the answer, she calls her son, my husband, says, “They don't want to give us the computer table and the chair. They're going to keep it. It is my son's income. Why do they, my daughter-in-law’s family, have to keep it?” So, it became that my parents forcefully kept the computer table and the chair. And it became a talk of the town. And my grandfather lived in the same town. So it became a troublesome for my dad and my grandfather that his daughter wants to keep the computer table and the chair. So, I got pissed off and my mom basically asked me to leave, “Take your computer table and chair and leave. I don't want it anymore there.” And I was like, “Where am I going now? She doesn't want me home. He's not paying the rent. He canceled the rental agreement. I don't have a place to go. You don't want me home. I've– just because of the computer table and the chair. Like what are your mother's up to? Like, why can't you just let me study and you mother?” I actually said that, “You, both mothers, are creating too much of the trouble. You don't use it. You, you both have to stop.” So, my mother didn't like it. I stepped out of the house one night, I was at the friends or cousins house, then I came back to my dad's house. My dad says, “You're not going on the street. You are not going anywhere.” I found a place that– that was renting a room for students, and I moved in for one and a half months. I paid two months’ rent and they let me stay there for forty-five days. I studied, I give my exam, back and forth between all these things I blocked all the phone calls– I had my cell phone, they had a cell, they have my cell number–I blocked all their numbers because I didn't want disturbance. I now– I moved into the apartment in the– in the– in the student house in the– in the hostel or the dorm. So my expenses shot up, because now I, all of a sudden, I had to pay for my food, I had to pay for my rent, everything, because when I was at my mom and dad's house, I didn't have to pay for food and rent. So now I got a call from my husband, “Why is the credit card bill so high? Why are you withdrawing so much cash?” And I said, “I have to pay the rent.” and he said, “Oh, so now you don't want to say where, stay with my mom, you don't want to stay with your mom and now you want to stay on and rent? Like what kind of, where's the money coming from? What kind of an attitude girl you are?” So I was at home, I said, “I don't know what your mother has told you, but you didn't bother to ask me what my side of the story was.” And I left it to it.
[03:51]
In the meanwhile, the owner and the employee, the friend that we had met, had a car accident, huge car accident. And one of his, there were six or eight people in the car, one of– one or two people in the car died, the children was in the car were untouched and nothing to them, but this owner, or the employer, had a– had a forehead cut into to split into two. So now he remembers to me as a trustworthy employee and wanted me to take care of his– an entire company while he was being, while he was getting better. So, he wanted me to go to Mumbai, speak to the employees, build their morale, and keep the company together, because there were people or, there were employees, who were trying to take over his company because they had fights because they started as friends together. And I don't know the actual story between what happened, but he ended up buying the entire stake in the company and these two or three became the employees of the company instead of becoming the owners of the company or partners of the company. So, whatever their fight was they always were looking for reasons to get their shares back and this was a good reason. So, he wanted me to step in and speak to the– build moral of the employees and keep them together till he comes back and I did it. So finally, the day came to– for me to be in the plane and I'm still thinking to run away with my bags. And I, finally I come– I was away from ex for almost three and a half months-ish, right? So when I came to the apartment at the airport on Newark International Airport, trust me at one point I had forgotten his face. I had forgotten my husband's face. I stayed with him for twelve months, right after the wedding, and I was– really, how many times did I even look at him? How much did, how many times did we actually spend time with each other? And I'm like, I was, I'm like, if he comes to pick me up, I couldn't recognize him. But thank God, he came, he recognized me, and I was looking at him, “Okay, that's him.” Trust me. This is the kind of relationship I had with him for the first twelve months. The first twelve months of any married couple, there is celebrations. You have to celebrate all the festivals for them with the intent to make them special because it is their first, whether it is first Diwali, first Kenisha, first Navratri, or first Sankranti or anything, it is it has to be a celebration for them to make them special that it is your first festival together. For me, it never happened. When it was time for Ganesha –my family has a tradition of ninty-plus years of Ganesha celebration, like, we bring that idol home every year, new idol, and we pray to it and then we let it go in, there there is a ritual that we let it go in the flowing water in the river water. So I was assuming because his family doesn't have it, my family has it, we should be going and staying with, attending the festival in my family and he refused to join. Instead, he wanted me to go to his aunt, his father's sister's family and celebrated there. And I said, “Why would you go to somebody else's house, right? When we have it in our house, you know.” So my family was an outsider, and his brothers, his father's sister's family was a family. So, I was not allowed to go to my own family celebration, but I was made to go to somebody else's family celebration. I was okay. So I did. Then came the Navaratri, then Navaratri. I said, okay, let's go to play some down here and I was not taken out. Not. not even once. I'm like, why can't we go and celebrate? No. Then the next, the following event festival was Diwali. So by Diwali, I had decided that– I had already dropped in my papers. I said, it's my, it's my first Diwali and my health is not keeping up. I will be going back to school because– And so, then I dropped my papers in the at– at the newspaper company. And then I was, I said, “Okay, you know what? I will go and stay with your mom for fifteen days in advance, and then you come and join, and then when the festival is over, we both will come back together.” So, he called his mom and she said, she just didn't want me for any of the festival or celebration preparations. So, I said, okay. Okay, so I said, “Are we celebrating the festival in Mumbai by ourselves or are we going and meeting any family members?” So he said, “Okay I'll try, we can go there for two days.” I said, “But this is our first Diwali, and first of he has to be in the wife's family. We go to the wife’s family.” So, which he said, “I'm not coming.” I said, “Okay, and I'm not coming either.” So, we then, we settle for two days here and two days there. Okay? I said fine. So, we were there for two days for celebrations. She kept me out of celebrations for giving me various reasons. She said, “My younger son is a business owner, he has a trading company, he sells tea and spices, so the celebration will be held as for his needs for business, and it will be a business celebration.” I said, no problems. So, to which he, uh, which means you are not supposed to get involved. So, it was not a celebration for me. My first of the Diwali. So you are a, you are salaried people. So my husband was a salaried people. My, and I was a salaried person's wife. I was not a trader or businessman’s wife, so, so she didn't wanted me to be part of it. So, when I went to get myself dressed for the evening, she told something to my husband, I don't know what happened. He went out for some time to get something, to do something, to meet somebody, I don't know why, he didn't tell me. When I came back, she said, “Why don't you go out and get me some yogurt from so-and-so place?” And I'm thinking, okay. So, I go to all dressed up, decked, up to buy some yogurt from a, from a place that never sells yogurt. So I am, like why would she send me? He says, “We never sell yogurt.” So, I'm like, why would she send me to this particular place to buy it? By the time I came back all the festivities, all the– the rituals or the prayers or Pooja and offerings that had to be done, was done with. So I was not home for any. This is how she kept me out. And I was like, oh, well good, not my responsibility– when you do, when you, you, when you, you do an offering, you do a prayer, it falls onto you as a responsibility to get it through– and I don't have a responsibility. And I am very happy that, as even being the eldest daughter-in-law in the family, being married to the eldest son in the family, I'd have– they’d have no expectations or want any interest and response from me. He was very– you won't believe I was; I am eldest daughter in the family, on both the sides, from my mom's side, and on my dad's side– the responsibility that that they put on the eldest in the family is huge, and when there was no responsibilities and expectations from my in-laws, I was happy. I don't care, I said, I don't have it. I don't need to. I'm very– I was very happy. She was upset that I was not upset. And she started acting and reacting that I was not upset.
[12:29]
Anyways, so I came, we came, so now they started, we were on– we were on our way to my mom's house, after spending two days with his mom, we were on the way to my mom’s. So, while we were putting our bags in the car, all the family members to came to see us by and then everybody said, oh take the route from this side, and the other started saying no, no, no take the route on that side there. An argument between two or three men as to which route, we should we take into my mom's house. It's a four-hour, five-hour journey, and depending on and is all cars. It's like all, and depends which road, which road you take, it might take half an hour, one hour shorter but then again, there could be animals that could be decoys, there could be no gas stations, or so many things depending upon which way you take. So they were all are caught in their argument and I'm saying, “You have to drive. We both have to travel. Why are these three men arguing?” So, so I said, “Which road would you take?” I asked him. “Whoever wins the argument.” So, I said, “How, how what does that matter? Like, why are they even discussing? I– I have my family in the same town. My grandparents are in the same town. My first cousin is your neighbor, your first cousin is right across the street from this house. I've never seen them interact or argue like this. Like you are the driver, I am with you, we are two travelers, let us decide which way we want to take. These three people are arguing, who are not going to be in the car with us, and whoever wins the argument you are going to listen to them and take that route? I mean does it even make sense? Why, why would you want them to argue it out for you?” It didn't make sense for me. Maybe it was their family traditions or relationships or culture, whatever. So I said, I wanted to go this way, because it's rainy season and there must– there must be waterfalls, and I want to see the waterfalls. If we can stop by get wet in the waterfall, I would love to do that, because everybody does it. So normally you just park by the highway on the side and then get, go and get wet in the waterfall. It's a very common thing and you will see hundreds of cars waiting. There's no traffic police controlling anything, like people just stop. So, we will go that way, because there are no waterfalls on the other two, right sides. So, he said okay. But then we had a, there was a complete silence for the five hours of journey. There was no stopping. There was no entertainment. There was no having fun. We reach there, we got to the rituals done, and then we left. So, you cannot have your opinion if you want to be happy. So anyway, so– so come. I– so with the accident, with the– the job leaving the job, with going back to the school and working for his friend and family. Twelve months, I was talking to– so I'm sitting here, and I was figuring out what to do for the first anniversary. And I always told him that I wanted two weeks of vacation, I won't be able to work. He said, “Why do you want that?” “It's my first anniversary and we have some, I want to make some plans.” So now this was the only discussion I had with the– the employer, right? He calls my ex-husband and says you need to take your wife on a vacation, on a second honeymoon. You can’t be so disrespectful for her, and you cannot neglect her, and blah blah, blah blah as if I complained that my husband is not taking me places. And I'm like– he called, and my husband comes during home furious. And he said, “What did you tell him?” I said, “I asked for a holiday for ten days, fifteen days. That's it. Nothing else.” “Did you tell him that I should take you on a second honeymoon?” I said, “No, I only asked for a holiday.” So now when people do more than what this is, a very common thing in Indian culture, it's a very common thing. So, you just need to learn how to deal with it and not react to it, but it is there. You cannot escape it, so, um, um, that happens. So, we go to Kerala, and we're trying to go, and we had a good nice time there, and we came back and then he borrowed his friends camera, he didn't want to use his camera. The whole entire thing of eleven years of my life, all the pictures that we took together, whether it was funny pictures, or whether it was any other vacation pictures, premarital pictures, he has them all. He never gave me a single copy or never shared it with me. Not even once. I probably might have seen it on the camera, but when it went on the computer, I never had a single, never had access to it. I don't know what he did with the pictures, why he never gives me the access to the pictures. I don't know. Even my daughter's birth, my son's word. He has the pictures, but he never gave it to me.
[Redacted] I think we need to pause
Oh, it’s too long?
No, it’s not too long. I think I just need a–
Okay, okay.
[End of Recording Three]
[00:18:22]
TRANSCRIPT 3
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Edison, New Jersey
August 18, 2022
Transcription by Katie Scrivani
Annotations by Lucy Gilch
[00:00:00]
Because there is now– I actually lost track of the timeline.
We will find it. I can get you back there. I just want to state this quickly: this is Dan Swern. It is 2:26 p.m. and we are here at Amandla Crossing on Thursday, August 18, 2022. I'm here interviewing–
[Redacted]. I wish to start today's interview with wishing my son, happy birthday. He's turning fourteen. I'm not going to be meeting him. I'm not going to be speaking to him. I hope one day, we celebrate together and many more birthdays to come together, but happy birthday to him and lots of love and blessings to both of my children. So– so, yeah, before we started this, we were talking about all the evil eye and negative energies. So many things help: rose water or eucalyptus, camphor, whole coconut– everything helps in small bits and pieces together, if you put together. So leaving a, leaving a whole coconut in the house with the intent that it will absorb anything negative that comes - or ill comes your way, it will, it will take it inside it, first, before it anything harms you. So it– I believe it and it works. So– so I was talking about– when I was in the street right before Covid hit, there was a phase of loneliness I started feeling outside, because I was so connected with the outside world– stars, skies, trees, birds, animals on the street– that I could feel a sense of calmness. Like a calmness of something coming before, something big going to happen. That kind of a calmness– and I didn't know what it– whether it was going to be a tsunami, whether it was going to be an earthquake or volcano. I didn't know what it was going to be, but it was going to be something big. And something big that happened was Covid. Because even before that happened, I said some, that a lot of people are going to die. I knew, I could sense, I could this– hear the whispers And I was telling my case manager that there was a point in time that I was hearing dead people, I was hearing people talk. I could hear people plan. I could hear people conspire. So, there was so much of a silence as if they were like, “shh.” Something like that. So it was like the Covid is like a peekaboo, you know, hiding behind the doors. So somebody was conspiring, it could be called as a virus, as for me it is something else. So a lot of things were happening. We– you could see what I could. And I was following was the– the rainfall radar for the planet, like, how much rain’s– the rain is coming. I could see. There were a lot of floods everywhere since 2005.
[00:03:29]
[End of Recording One]
[Beginning of Recording Two]
[00:00:00]
So I, um, started hearing voices at one point of time and I could sit hearing whispers. Whispers of elements– earth, fire, water speaking, and it was not just them, but the dead speaking, and I could sense a plan, that they were planning to execute something. I didn't know what it was. But there was a time when there was a complete silence, as if they were hiding behind a door, ready for us to open the door, and they were going to yell “peekaboo” at us. And the peekaboo was Covid for me. The doctors and the medical industry information could say, could say that this is a virus and this and that but for me, having been connected to the– the outdoors for more than thirty-six months on being– living on the street, I could sense things differently. Like I could see the clouds giving some science, or I could see that, sense the air, sense what's happening between the moon and the sun. Like, I, because I was outdoor looking at the sky, there was nothing else for me to do, but to figure out, like, what is happening with me and why it is happening with me, and I was just walking around doing nothing, right? And in the process, I was, like, connecting and connecting dots that I probably would not have if I have sitting in an AC room in front of a computer. So, see how it goes, but something more is to come. I don't know what. So I was telling that I was– the only thing while all this was happening was I was monitoring online. There was some website that I was watching that– that monitors the rainfall radar for the entire planet. And I could see floods, floods, floods, floods coming, and it all started probably when there was, they declared South Africa as a dry soil. And they had only drinking water left for, to last three days, and they knew they had to evacuate and boom, it rained. And so I could see a lot of things happening, cosmically or on the spiritual– or on the energy level, that shifts were happening. Shifts were happening. It was, so lot of– I tried to– that's when I– when I started trying to find reasons and words and vocabulary and language to connect, to express what– what I was sensing, and I found most of my vocabulary and literature from mythology, from Greek, Roman, Indian mythology. As to okay this could be this, and I could make a sentence that makes a sense that could be right. I was not making a claim that this is the thing, I was just trying to figure out what should I call this? And how should I create a sentence to define what I think, what I saw can define what the sentence should mean. So, I tried to write, I wrote lots of emails, and sent it to either myself or some people outside. If it made sense to them, it made sense to them. But at least I had a proof that I have it written somewhere. And if something happens to my email account, somebody else's email account has it, because I didn't know what was going to happen.
[00:03:54]
So, so how I ended up on the street is– I'll go back to the divorce proceedings. My ex-husband and I were having a dinner one day, and I was talking that the– maybe we should send our son to a private school. The discussion started and the discussion ended as it's a lot of money per year, apart from paying the taxes and not sending the child to the public school with one salary, with one income sending the child to the private school is a big thing. And I said, “We'll work it out.” And for his response was I had a mental illness. I'm out of my mind was one thing, I'm thinking way too much, or I'm not– I have high expectations whether– but I have a mental illness, was a big thing for me. Like, he defined that issue and shut the discussion there. He had met with an a car accident 2009 to which we were working things out and I said, “I cannot be your nurse and I cannot be a doctor. I need help, because I don't understand what's happening with you. You need to go to your insurance and you have to figure out a way that you can have a whole help at home so that I don't have to do what a nurse should be doing for you.” And I said, “I cannot do it. It's too much for me. It's– I need help.” So the– he said, and then he said, “Okay, I will take help.” So first him and I went to his neurologist at where discussed our issues. They, I said, I didn't know that something like medication management happens, like he could go impatient and stay there to monitor, monitor his medications, and then come back. And it's– I'm first generation immigrant, I had no idea such a things happens in America. So there was a doctor's didn’t suggest anything, the insurance just didn’t suggest things. So, we were figuring out. Like, I cannot do it for you. So when I said, I cannot do it, and I when I said I need help, so what he did is he said, okay, so we went to his neurologist. Then we went with the PCP, in the PCP, in the interview, when the– when the– at the PCP the plan was that she would give us a note that the insurance would take care of a nurse at home or something like that. The whole idea was that him and I go and speak to the PCP together. I go there and here we are sitting there in front of the PCP and he tells the PCP, “Oh my wife thinks we have something going on between us and she wants to make sure that everything is alright.” So that was the beginning, right? So I said, I was, I had no words to express. And that doctors looking at me, she was a young doctor, and I only said that there was the doctor that I knew, was supposed to be whose practice we went to do, was not the doctor that we were seeing. It was a new, fresh student, out of college who was doing and, uh, neurological and was seeing patient who needs neurological assistant. So I said, “Where is the senior doctor? Why are we seeing her? Like, we should be seeing the doctor whose practice it has, not and train– trainee doctor.” So I asked him, like, “Have you been meeting her or you have been meeting the senior doctor?” So when we sat there, he introduces me as his wife, but he also introduces that that I have doubts in my mind about both of their relationships. No words to express. I kept quiet, I just walked out. No discussion about asking for home health or anything else, I just leave, and I come home and I'm quiet right. So, “Why are you quiet? Why are you not talking to me?” I said, “You're taking my words out of context. I am scared to speak to you.” To which he said, “Okay, I'm going, I'm willing to take more help.” So he makes an appointment with a psychiatrist in Morristown County Hospital. And it's an Indian doctor, male doctor, and he has already spoken to the male doctor. He said, “Can you come with me?” I said, “Sure why not. If you're willing to take help and you think this is the way we'll go.” So he goes there. He says, “Why don't you sit outside for five minutes? I'll speak to the psychiatrist and then I'll call you in.” When I said, “If you want me to come inside out, that's fine. Otherwise, I'm fine sitting outside because he might be a private thing that you want to speak to a psychiatrist.” “No,” he said, “I want you to come in.” I said, okay. So he goes in his, to the psychiatrist, and he, they called me in, and then he says, “Okay what's the problem?” The psychiatrist– And I said, “I cannot manage him with the medication he is on what he does after taking the medication. Like I have to lock myself in the bathroom, with the knife in hand, just in case he does something to me. And I have locked myself and my child inside to the bathroom with a knife in her hand side hand, many times after he took the medication.” I didn't know what kind of help and who to ask for. So I'm telling this to the doctor and I'm saying, I use the words, “I need help, I cannot manage him.” So he, the psychiatrist, says okay and then he writes out something and he gives me a note, a prescription, an anti-psychotic and name of the patient? Mine, [Redacted]. Like I have the problem, like I need psychiatric help. I don't know what he told– told to psychiatrist before when I was waiting outside or before he took the appointments, right? And that's how my mental illness began. So I was like– it is, it was a known fact that Indian men or Indian community uses it, uses the Western medicine, against the weaker sections of the society in India to harm in India, but I didn't know that they misuse it in America also. And I was furious. And he's– when we came home, he started going behind me, “Did your pill?” I said, “Why do you want me to take a pill? It is your medication management that we are planning. It is your neurological issues that we are planning with the neurologist. It is your MRIs that we are trying to get the appointments for. What problem do I have? If I complain that I cannot manage your medication and you after you take the medication, I'm scared of how you behave, how is the taking a pill going to protect me from you, of your behavior? After taking the pill, maybe you, you are wrong, you are on a wrong pill. You need a change in the pill.” So that's how my mental illness started. So he booked an air ticket for my mom to come and stay with me saying that [Redacted] has a problem after I delivered [Redacted]. And then they've all, everybody decided that the children and the mother are going to India–me and my children are going to India. He booked the tickets, he sent me– so five of us, both the children, him, and I and my mother go back to India and he comes back. And he files a police complaint against me that I kidnapped both the children and ran out of the country. Okay, and the police accepted it. But six months before in America, when I was living in America, I went to India first with him with my mom, left children there, stayed with the children for six months, came back, stayed in America for six months. And a lot of things happen, we can go in detail after them sometime later, but he just sent me an email that he's abandoning the family. He cut off all the credit cards, all the debit cards, all the bank accounts were separated. He stopped paying the utilities, it was this month of November and December, so, there was no internet, no lights, no gas. I mean, he's just, he decided he's going to stop making all the payments. So he abandons the family. So I'm like, what do I do? I speak to some social workers of Indian origin, who just are like freelance social workers, I mean, they are not certified social workers, but that I heard them say, they said, “Let's go and speak to– go and make police report.” And so I go and say, “I need to file a report that my husband abandoned to me and he left the country.” “So he's a male, he is independent, he is an adult, and he can go wherever he wants. There is no police report that we can file against him because he has not gone missing. He, he has gone on his own, with his own will.” So there was no backup protection for me to prove that he was the one who abandoned, and I was not the one who kidnapped the children and leave the country, right?
[00:13:27]
So when I came back from India, there was an arrest warrant waiting for me. So we go into the divorce proceedings, and he wants to keep the children's custody because he would save a lot off on tax. That's the only intention. If he had the children. Because he had a higher salary, he would get lot of tax deductions. That was the only intent of him wanting the children. I said, “This is not how you think, maybe we can speak to a tax consultant and see if you can still continue to file them, the children, on your tax, but they will be with me, the mother, but they were still stay with the mother, and then we will see about when I start earning, then we'll talk about the tax, moving the children on my tax returns.” This was not acceptable to him. And what he started doing was he convinced me that my daughter needs to go to a daycare, and the son had was already enrolled in the school. He started going to school school. And I said, “I don't have fifteen hundred dollars per month to pay for the daycare because I'm not earning.” He said, “Don't worry, I'll pay.” He had moved out and of the house– I was living in the family home and he was living with his friend– his fear was I would call a cop on him for a false accusation, so he didn't want it to be under the same roof. I said, “I didn't think that can be done because I don't want to do that, right? And so it, you put that in my head.” So anyways, so he forced me to put my daughter in the daycare and I said, “Okay, I don't have a job. I have nothing to do. I'm sitting idle. I don't know why we are spending five hundred– fifteen hundred dollars to send the baby to the daycare.” So, now– So we sent to the baby—The– the divorce papers were already filed. This is what he would do, is when both the children were out in daycare and school, he would come home without letting me know that he's coming or without taking my permission that he can come, and he would just sexually force himself on me, creating a confused state of confusion and dilemma– a delusion in my mind. And I– every time he would come and leave, I had to go to the ER because I would get a severe anxiety attack. And then he comes and says, “My lawyer is America's greatest divorce family court lawyer, and he can protect me against anything. He has given me a word. He has told me that I can do anything with you, whatever I want, and he will protect me and get me out of any situation, and as far as I don't get you pregnant and I can even have you killed because I, if I don't, if I decide I don't want to pay you any alimony.” So basically he's coming in threatening me that he– he has the avenues to have me killed and there is a lawyer who's going to protect him if he– if he doesn't want to pay me any alimony. I said, okay. And I'm still in this state of confusion. When somebody is forcing yourself, him, themself on you, sexually, you go in a state of confusion. There is a complete confusion as to what is happening. And how is that happening to you. You cannot associate with the outside world in a normal fashion. And the– the doctors and the hospital, I didn't trust them enough to tell them what was happening behind the doors. And they would just say, “You are upset and not happy that you are getting divorced and that's why you are getting these anxiety attacks.” They would monitor me for a couple of hours and then send me back and I didn't want to go back home because I know, next day morning, he's coming back again. So this continued. So by the time 2017 arrived, lot of things happen in between. I'm not going into the details, but 2017 arrived and somebody's spread the word– I don't know who, why, how– that I'm a Trump follower, okay? And I had people walk into my apartment threatening me for my well-being, unknown people that because I'm a Trump follower. You won't believe, I had somebody at the beach told me that they will have a truck run over me to have I mean, because I'm a Trump follower. And I said, “Who are you? How did you know I am at the beach? And how do you know I'm a Trump follower?” I'm like what did I do– and I'm trying to figure out if I tweeted something in favor of President Trump. If I tweet a or posted a post on Facebook, I'm looking searching, like if I send any emails about any anything saying stating Trump. Like, I'm not even thinking Trump, okay? I'm only thinking, how do I get children, how do I find a job and should I go back to India or I stay. Don't know, right? Because even it's for staying for ten years or twelve years in America I didn't know if I could survive without a man in this country. If I would go back, I had my brothers, I had my family, I had my sister, I have my mom and my cousins, everybody, my dad who can help me resettle, right? But in this country, I knew nothing, and all the people I knew were controlled by him, who to speak or not to speak. And I was allowed only to speak to the people he introduced me to. So, when we were ready to separate, they made their choices that we are his friends, “We are not yours.” I didn't know how I was– how I was going to provide myself.
[00:19:23]
So I had to be institutionalized when all this was happening, because the anxiety attacks wouldn't stop. And they said, “You are bipolar.” But they didn't win my trust to ask me what's happening right? Nobody ever asked, like, what's happening– my lawyer, not my doctors at the ER, nobody asked what’s happening, not the police, nobody asked what's happening? Somebody should have asked. So fast forward to 2017, I thought, maybe, you know, I take a break from U.S. I. So I booked a ticket to Canada, and I said let I just don't want you to think about court case. I don't want to think about the threats I received, I'm going to Canada and I'm like, okay, so I take a break and let's a vacation. So I had the same experience there on the trip in the in the transportation. I'm like, “How does this person know, like, is there something that I don't know? Like what has happened? Like, somebody's spread a word against to me, about me. What did I do?” I have not spoken to anybody in the transportation apart from like when they called my name, “are you present?” That's the only time I spoke. And I'm like, why are people attacking me? And I said, let me go back to India and I can't stay here. I felt threatened when somebody came and said that they run over, run me over under a truck. I'm like, what did I do, like, “Where is it coming from?” At one point of time, I said, “You know what, if it is so, let me go under the umbrella of President Trump.” I mean, I didn’t know where else to go. I didn't know that I have to think that I have to support a political party or a person because I was not that person that who's going to think about politics or anything else. I might read some news here and there and say something at home with that doesn't mean I'm going to, because I still was not a citizen. I'm still not today a citizen, and I'm not voting. If I have to vote, I go to India, book my tickets, and vote there. But it's a completely different ballgame when Indian politics comes and when American politics comes, and I had– and I don't have anybody to guide me to even explain the difference what means a left-wing and of what means the right-wing in American politics. I don't know nothing. So anyway, so I went to India with the intention that I'll come back in three weeks, and it happened that I couldn't, and I was stuck there for six months and he went to the court right after I went to there, he stopped paying me alimony assuming that I'm not coming back. So and then later, he went to the court saying that she's not paying me child support, and she stopped paying the rent, and she's not coming back. And I'm saying that if you stop paying me alimony, and if I don't have a job, how am I supposed to, supposed to pay you the children's expenses and how am I supposed to pay you the– the rent? So why don't you just pay the rent directly in the– if you say you're not going to give me the alimony, at least pay the rent, so that when I come back, I have a house to go to. He goes to the court and he says gets the apartment vacated. So now in my absence, there is a stay on the alimony. I cannot I– it's court-ordered then there was not a clause in that says that I have to pay either– or both of us have to ever– to ever pay any child support to each other except fifty percent of the monthly expenses out of pocket, right? So I was paying that from the alimony that I was receiving it, and then I was like, and then on top of that, I had to pay him child support are the alimony was on the stay and my apartment was vacated. So the expenses that I was doing on my credit card in India, I couldn't pay it– pay my credit card bills in America back, right? At one point of time I had savings so I kept paying it and then I couldn't. So when I came to U.S. I asked, I had my dad come to drop me off– many, many reasons, just very huge story, what happened in India– but when my dad came to drop me off, he said, “I can't stay more than 10 days because I have a job to be.” And so we he left, he made arrangements for me to stay in the hotel room for some time and then I was on my own. So I had, I was able to put some cash together and pay off, clear up one credit card. So I was able to buy hotel rooms for at least three months on that credit card, and not pay, pay that credit card off. And one day, I said, “I don't have a hundred dollars to pay the hotel room for tonight, and I cannot leave tonight.” So I went and spoke to the front desk and I said, “I don't have hundred dollars to pay tonight. I paid until yesterday. All payments are cleared. I don't have any place to go tonight. Can I stay? Can I pay you later?” And she said, okay. So I put all my stuff into the car, and that's where I ended up in the car. She was nice enough to not charge me for two days that I lived there. She says, “Pay me everything later when you have it.” So with that extra balance on the credit card that was not charged by the hotel, I was able to take a storage unit and move all my bags into the storage so that I can sleep flat on the back seat, because otherwise I had to sit straight in the front because everything was back– there was just too much of luggage in the– in the in the trunk and on the back seat. This is how I became homeless. And I was– I was positive that I would find a job and within less than a month I will be back. And that month never came for thirty-eight months. Next month I will have a job within thirty-one days– that never happened. Like I applied here, I applied there, I walked in there, I walked in there. Nothing happened. I probably could have done– what it didn't occur to me then was I could have done Uber or Lyft, but only now, after four years, it clicked at me that I probably should have, that was the best option for me to do because I had a car and all my luggage was in the truck in the– in the storage. It never occurred to me that I should have done Uber or Lyft. If I would have done that, probably I would not have been so miserable. But sometimes when you are in that situation, you don't get the best of the ideas to come out of it.
[00:26:20]
So– so I walked in each and every shop, restaurant in Main Street Metuchen and Highland Park. I said, “Give me something.” Like I'm– and nobody responded ever. I might have walked in fifty places in Metuchen, seventy plus places in Highland Park, nobody responded– no cashier, no waiter, no dishwasher, nothing. So I didn't have money for food. What I would do was there was– there is a, there is a pond in Metuchen and there but there there are wild, grown Cherry Cherry—is It cherries? Cranberry trees or plants there. I would pick up the cranberries from those wild, grown trees and save it and eat those. And I was lucky enough that– can I take a, um, private business’ names? That walk into Whole Foods in Metuchen and grab– what is it called– mustard, ketchup, and mayonnaise packets that were free for, right? And that was, my one packet of mayonnaise– mayonnaise has eggs in it. That was my breakfast, that was my egg breakfast. Then I would have mustard for lunch, and then I would have ketchup for dinner, and I would ask for a cup of hot water to curb my hunger so that it puts me to sleep and it doesn't keep my– keep me awake, so that on a hungry stomach. And so that was my meals for weeks together. Then I was walking past, and I saw that the chief of police officer, the Metuchen police station has– has a tree that has some kind of fruit, fruit I'd have never seen. And I like, “Is it dangerous? Is it safe?” I don’t know, I grabbed one, I ate it, I waited half an hour, I was fine, I went back, I picked up the second one. So I didn't know who to ask help for, and I'm sure the chief saw it. And I was in his office the next day and he said, “Go and meet the director of the Senior Citizens Center in Metuchen and she's going to guide you, I have spoken to her.” I said, okay. So I go there and she said, “Are you a citizen?” I said, no. “Do you have a green card here?” I said, yes. “How long have you been a green card?” I said since 2006 or so, it was more than five years. She says she called the– the Board of Social Services and she said, “I'm sending somebody, she needs food stamps.” I didn't know that was something, like, that is available in America. I'm eligible for it. I would have done it earlier like six, eight months earlier, right? So she says, “Do you have a car? Can you go there?” She gave me twenty– I said, “I have a car but I don't have money for the gas. My car is there in one place for the last three or four weeks.” She said okay, she gave me twenty dollars to put gas in the car. I went to the Board of Social Services. All the application was done and they gave me an instant, like, emergent food stamps for seven days. That's when I had my first meal. I said I'm eating a something and not waiting because I have, I was hungry. And the best thing was the YMCA in Metuchen, they helped me a lot. They would let me go take showers there, they did a fundraiser for me, they did, they gathered meals for me and they gave me food, almost a lot of food. So I had that as a backup at one point of time. Because they didn't know why I'm sitting there whole day long, because I had nowhere to go. And somebody came to me and asked me, “Is everything okay? People come here and do a class or two and then go back. Like, we see you sitting here all day. Do you have a place to go?” I said no, that's the reason I'm sitting here, and they had a– the phone charger and a free Wi-Fi. All I was just watching Hulu, YouTube videos. What do I do? Then I picked up some cloth, some sewing– I had a sewing kit in my wallet. Somehow, I probably had ordered something and that was delivered to my PO box and I had a sewing kit. So I said, you know what, I'm going to– that's a good idea. I went in, I went and bought some fabric and started sewing and stitching with hand stitching and I started selling those pouches for five rupees– five dollars and eight dollars and twelve dollars. I said that gives me gas and that gives me one meal. If it is sold it is sold. And what I would do is, if people wanted to give me donation in– initially the first couple of months, I said, “No, no, no, I don't want it.” And then I said, “Okay, I will take the money from you if you take the pouches from me.” So I would give them free, the pouches, as a token of appreciation when they gave me some cash or anything else. So there is a retired teacher from– from my son’s– my son’s school– my son was going to the same school but she never met him because she already retired. So she– she happened to be a customer at Whole Foods and she would come, and she saw me sitting there every day and she would just come there to grab some latte that she liked, some, so she would just come out take a break from her routine, and in the evening she just walk in for some latte. So she saw me sitting there for a couple days. And she said, “I see you sitting here every day so, like, what's happening?” So I told her what was happening, and then she brought me some clothes, she brought me some sanitary pads, and whatever hygiene thing. She said, “Is everything okay?” She gave me some cash, which I wouldn't take. I had pouches ready. I said, “Can I give you something in return?” I, because I knew, I needed it. So she said sure. So then I give her pouches, then she gave me cash, and then– and she helped me a lot and she helped me a lot. And the staff, for me the Whole Foods was as if I’m walking in my home, and this is what one room of my house, and that's their bedroom, and that's the kitchen, and that's the bathroom. So it was, it was like my home and they wouldn't say anything to me. They just knew that if she needs help she will ask, nobody asked me to leave. Nobody asked me to not come. I was there, I was parked there for almost more than twelve months in the same parking lot. But I traveled because, I– I traveled at least more than ten to fifteen times and parked and stayed there for some time. Because staying in the same place I, at one point of time it became too much for me. Because I don't know, it became too emotional. When you settle down you remember the past, when you're trying to settle in new places, you are busy trying to settle you don't have the memories flushing. So I traveled West Field. I traveled– I even went to Brooklyn, I stayed there for at least two, two or three weeks, probably. I lived in Highland Park, New Brunswick, Flemington– what was the other places I went to? Iselin, and what was probably Woodbridge, outside Wegman’s, lot of places, North Brunswick, Princeton, South Brunswick– what was the other towns? The other towns nearby. I– and I have experiences from each town. People were helpful, people were not helpful. People were concerned. Some people went into a state of shock, and I was like, should I tell or not? Because when I saw a few people going in a state of shock, I didn't know somebody would react like this. And there were school student who would come and help me– I had some school student and give me their pocket money– I don't know his name, he just came, he gave it, and he left. He didn't say hi, hello, nothing. He probably had been watching me or waiting for me. I don't know. But he just came, he gave and he left. If he comes back in front of me again, I would never recognize him. People came and stopped and had chats, wonderful discussions. A lot of people started helping, a lot of people started hating the system, a lot of people started hating my ex-husband, lot of people started hating the culture. They had all their frustrations, and they pinned it to this reason, or that reason and they vent it. So, we had a lot of wonderful kinds of conversations.
[00:35:26]
The other places I would spend my day was the libraries. And I actually was– ended– was going to think of buying a sewing machine and– and I asked if a laptop can be charged in the computer in the library, can I use a sewing machine in the library, which was not allowed. So, but I asked, I don't mind taking a no, but if a person working from home chooses to come and sit in the library and is using the plug to charge as why can't I charge my sewing machine was my question. So they said, no, that's not more profitable for them, that can be accepted. So I don't get mad and I didn't have an argument, but I had just had a question, so I needed an answer. So when I was staying in the library for a long time, again there were people who would notice me, “Why she's sitting there for a whole day?” So there was one Mr. Michael who came and asked me, like, “Is everything okay? Why are you sitting here all day? Like, I have been sitting, seeing you every day that you spend lots of hours sitting in the library.” I said, I told them my story and he invited me home and it became a point of place of my contact. Like, if a Board of Social Services had to call me, they would call me on his, on his landline. If somebody had to find me, I would tell give leave a message with him, I will take all my messages from him. So he became my support system. If I had to use a restroom in the middle of the night, it was okay for me to knock on his door, and I said, “Mr. Michael, I need to rush to the restroom now.” If I was cold and I couldn't go back to sleep, he would sit and chat with me until one o'clock at night, and keep offering me hot tea ‘til the time I felt warm and to go back into the car and sleep, because it was going to be cold anyways, again. So he was very supportive. There were other people who would take me out to lunch or bring lunch for me. A lot of things. And the funniest thing was the best support system was the cops. Every town I went, the best support system I ever found was the cops of the town. And so, whether it was Flemington, whether it was Brooklyn, whether it was Edison, Metuchen, Highland Park, New Brunswick– I mean they were like, you know, when somebody falls in trouble and they, somebody wants to be a superhero? Like, they all became the Supermans and the– the Spider-Mans around me, helping me with out in the uniform with– So I remember it was cold and somebody who gave me the sleeping bag, I think this is Mrs.– the teacher, school teacher gave me a sleeping bag. No,, I know– okay, the Highland Park Church, there was an event and they were fundraising for the US Navy, I believe, and there was a musical event that was happening. So everybody who was taking shelter at the Highland Park Church were invited if you wanted to come and join us, but everybody else that were by invitation probably bought the tickets. So I was like, should I go, not go? So I, like, I was listening, sitting in the kitchen, what was happening in the– in the– in the– in the presentation room. So I went there and I gave a– I didn't have any cash. So what I did was, I had the pouches I said I wanted to give these pouches for the fundraiser as a donation. So they were like, “Who are you? Why did you give us this?” And they started in asking me questions. So I said, “I am taking shelter, it's cold outside, I'm taking shelter at the church and I was listening to your concert and I thought I should just give you something some tokens for the Navy.” So they said okay they went, they went back home listen to my story. She got me sleeping bag, she got me sweaters, and then she probably got me some foods, I believe so. So I had a sleeping bag now. So now it was okay for me to be in the car and snuggle inside was sleeping back. But I'm born in tropical area, in India. It's hot, humid there. We are not used to just know like minus zero, minus one, I mean not I cannot wait. So I go park outside the Edison police station. I'm waiting there. Should I go in or not go? And so, I'm like, with my blanket with a pillow and the sleeping guard. I go there past ten o’clock and I buzzed, and I said, “It's way too cold outside. I am homeless, I want to be indoors.” And he buzzes me in and he lets me, and so he didn't know what, right? So, I put my sleeping bag, like, right there and I go back to sleep. And they are all, like, they thought that I would just be sitting there in the chair all night, which I did not. So the next day I go back there again and they said, “Ma’am, you have to leave, wake up and leave before the judges come.” I said okay. And I was late by maybe two or three minutes or five minutes and an officer comes with a coffee, “That's your coffee. Out you go now.” So this happened for a long time. Like a long time. This happened in New Brunswick. This happened in Highland Park. This happened in Westfield. That was my second home, and the parking lots of the police stations, the police stations itself, I just put my sleeping bag and slept at that– the police station in Metuchen. I really, I’m sorry. I made myself way too comfortable, but for– for the way they reacted back to me, I felt they were, like, all super excited to become the Spider-Mans, Supermans of my life, now helping me in whatever way they could.
[00:42:18]
So– so that was how I became homeless. That's the story. Then when I was at Highland Park, Pastor says that if you want to continue coming to the church, and if you want us to help you, it is going to be our way. I said, okay. And so he calls Jason, and says Jason is going to help you find housing. And Jason comes, and he says, “You have to sign these documents, you have to take medication. You have to do this, you have to do that. And this is the process, you will have to do this, then I will do this. If you give me the permission, there's all these things will– will start happening for you.” And at that point of time, though I was friendly with the cops, I had a lot of resentment of what I had been through. And by that time, I was angry with America as a whole. And I had already applied for asylum in Russia. I knew I was going to Russia. That was my anger doing it, making me do it, right? So I have been, I'm saying, I'm not going back to India because I don't know how my family will accept me after the divorce without the children, and I don't want to be in America. I didn't know what to do and I'm like, I'm going to, I want, I'm leaving, leaving both the countries. So I told Jason, “You know what? I'm waiting to hear back from Russia because I applied for the Asylum, and I don't want any help from any American.” And he's like, “Okay,” he's smiling and laughing and he's confused, what's happening? So I, like, I go and I say, okay, pastor, if you– if his clause was, if I accept help from Jason, only then he will continue to help me, right? So I walk out of both of them, and one and a half years I still continue to stay on the street with– and I said I'm not going back to them, not taking their help. Then I was somehow introduced– I went back– I went back to the church in Metuchen, the Presbyterian church and they said we are willing to help you will introduce you to somebody and he's going, he knows everything, he's going to help you. And then there comes Jason and he says, “Oh, you're still on the street. Did you figure it out? You didn't go to Russia yet?” I said, “No.” “So, so are you willing to accept help from America?” He didn't say that. So he was– so I said, okay. I’ll think about it. I took it like maybe twelve, twenty-four, twenty-four hours a day or ish and I said, “Okay, what do you have for me?” So he brought all the forms. I signed everything and I said, whatever happens, happens. Within less than 48 hours, he got me into a shelter in the respite house. He said, “You're on the waiting list for the shelter and you will be next. Is it okay?” Within ten days I was in the shelter, and within fifteen months I was here. So I don't know what he did, how he did, I had to do nothing except to read the forms that he asked me to sign and sign. That's it. And he yelled at me. He said, “You are in America and you know nothing and let me help you.” And I said, “Nope, I'm going to Russia.” I said it was a funny situations because I was angry. I had a lot of resentment. I wanted somebody to stop and ask what happened, “How, why, how did you lose the children's custody? Is there something we can do to change it?” I mean, there has to be some conspiracy. Just don't end up on the street like just like that. Something has to go drastically wrong somewhere. I mean somebody lied to somebody, somebody cheated somebody, somebody misguided something it– you just don't end up like this. So I had, I had a lot of questions that I thought somebody should have asked me– that all– why did– so nobody asked me all these questions? Why did nobody trusted my side of the story? How did how was court decisions and court pass– pass only listening to one side of the story? A lot of things happened. I'm not giving you a detailed of every day what happened in every day, all 24 hours of the day no, but I'm just telling that. So while all this was happening, I was still hearing the whispers, and coming back. So I was still hearing a lot of dead people. I was seeing a lot of activity happening, and I was telling Melissa that there was a point that I knew something was happening, and to find what was happening I was reading, I was just searching, I was reading online. I was going to libraries and picking up books and I picked up more than twenty, twenty-five, maybe thirty, forty books on Russia, even before all this happened. And I knew something is coming up then, but I don't know what. So I was reading books on culture. I was reading books written by Russian authors. I was reading books written by, on Russian spirituality. I was trying to figure out something, like maybe I find some words here to make sense and create a sentence to figure out what might come or what's happening. So I don't know, I just couldn't put anything together but I knew something. And then when this war happened, I said the dead were conspiring. I said it's not the Putin, it's the dead. I said so so–vand same with Covid. I mean, they were just waiting behind the door for a peekaboo, and somebody opened the Pandora's Box, they should not have opened. Otherwise we could have avoided Covid, probably, I don't know. So there –What else? I don't know. What else happened? Yeah, I was– remember I was chatting with my brother.
[00:48:45]
I'm going to tell a childhood story, where I probably was in fourth or fifth grade, and my first cousin is two years older to me, and as if you remember in the initial interview, part of the interview, I said that our playground was the construction sites of the bungalows that were being, being built after we moved in. So at one point there were four bungalows that were being built at the same time, but there they were at different stages of being built. So between two property lines right on the, on the property line, we saw that two owners were discussing something and it was about a papaya tree that who, weather should they should cut the papaya tree or, and build the vault, with the fence between the two properties or leave it as it is, or should, should one of the owners of the land to take the papaya tree in their property. So that was the discussion, and we were watching somebody, they are talking about something, right? So now when everything is cleared up, maybe two three days later, we go to that papaya tree and my elder cousin tells, “Do you know that if we take these green raw papayas here and if we dig a hole and fill the hole with these raw papayas and covered it with mud, after when we grow up, these puppies are going to become gold and we will be rich.” So there we go, we wanted to be rich. So now he is our, he's our ringmaster, and the four of us—me, my, his younger brother, my younger cousin, my younger uncles, elder daughter, my second cousin– or in India we call his cousin sister– and my sister. The four of us and my elder, first cause of the fight because he's the ringmaster, and we are his labor. So he says, “Okay, you're climbing this tree and getting the papayas down.” And we said, okay. So one by one like monkeys, we climb up, take a couple of– couple pairs down, come down. The next one goes up, and here we collect like ten, fifteen, green, raw papayas. Huge ones. I am– and if I was in the fourth grade, everybody else was younger to me, like, two years, four years, five years younger to me. So, I was the eldest laborer, and he was the manager. Alright so now I'm from– from between those two properties we had to take those– all fifteen, sixteen or whatever amount of papayas we had got down to another property where there was enough empty land, and there was not concrete or the foundation were gonna wasn't done. So it was just a plain land and we had to dig a hole there big enough to keep all those fifteen, sixteen papayas in it, and then we had to cover it up, right? So now, he did nothing apart from just telling us and yelling at us what to do and, “Hurry up, don't be late, right?” So we dig a hole, big enough, like, between such a small kids. We found some sticks, we found some stones, and we found some iron rods from the construction site, and we dug a huge hole that was all our evening gone. Like already past our time, like seven o’clock, seven thirty, you have to be back home, clean up yourself, and be there for the evening prayer. You can't miss it. And then because all these things have to be done, you have to be cleaned up, clean up before the father's come home, right? You can be messy. So the week we take all those papayas there, we take a huge hole, we put all the purveyors there and then he says he says, “You know it's too late. We'll come back tomorrow.” So he says, “If we come back, if we wait until tomorrow to fill up this whole, then we will not get gold. Will get silver, okay? So we have to cover it up today.” And we said, no, we have to go home. You have to do the homework, like, tomorrow's a school day. No, it was a weekday. And he’s angry. He's like, no. We had already hear from a distance, we were hearing mother's yelling like it done, sun is down, you have to be home. And he wanted the work done today and we are looking at it. So that was the first time we revolted against the elder in the family, right? He's the elder brother. We cant say no, or we can say back to him talk back to him, and the and we start yelling at him like, “You did nothing and you want the gold. And I'm not going to give you the share of the gold. This is all our gold, okay?” So we fill up the day and we never dug it up. We never talk again to find the gold. We have to go back and find that gold. So I have some money that waiting for me. So it's funny, the kind of games that we played growing up. It was all street games and all made up games and every day was a different game. So its memories. Funny.
[00:54:09]
I don't know what else to share. So my last one year at this place has been running around to get to a place where I can say that all the hard work is done and then I just have to get in a routine. So trying to get and green card, trying, trying to get a passport, trying to get a bank account, trying to get a driver's license, trying to get a Social Security card, trying to find some source of employment or to give interviews or to be able to do some to do some study or get some degree, or to connect with the society and make friends, or participate in many events. So first, it has been– and this is one thing. The other thing is to get my health on, on track, when I was in the street, I had less to eat, but I was healthy. I was not eating crap. And I was not done eating unhealthy. I was– was happy inside to me because I was eating less, but I was eating good. When I moved into the shelter of from a– from a weight of one hundred and thirty pounds. From day one to the day, I moved in here I was one hundred seventy, like forty pounds. Eating pizza, burgers, potato– what is that? French fries? And what is that? I don’t know, know what is it called– had mashed potatoes, right? So, that because of Covid the shelter's kitchen was shut. They couldn't cook there. So people were donating all kinds of things and we were just dependent on the donations that people made and it was not healthy ninety percent of the time. There was no choice but to eat. And I put forty pounds, my cholesterol went two hundred percentile, and I was like, I'm never been so heavy. I have never known that there is something called this cholesterol that will harm me, a bad cholesterol will go, go so high. So I started walking five, my five miles a day and eating healthy, controlling my diet. Now my cholesterol is low, but not still healthy. And I'm still lost twelve pounds, another twenty pounds to go. So that's an agenda. So I'm working on it. So it's like, I don't feel comfortable in inside me because I've never been so heavy. I wasn't even that– I'd never weighed so much even in both my pregnancies. So I'm worth–That's, that's the biggest thing and behind at the back of my mind is, how do I go back to that weight? How do I ever lose the excess? So that's one. And then the other, my mammograms came– a positive, like, they had something that they were concerned about, and they said, “That doesn't need a treatment immediately. We'll just monitor it for every six months and we'll see.” So I don't know what I picked up, what happened, and so we have been monitoring that then there was some issues with the pelvic and the ultrasound. And so now, after twelve months of monitoring, watch and go, everything is normal, all of a sudden Not all of a sudden, we work towards it, but mammogram came normal. The ultra– pelvic– ultrasounds are normal. Cholesterol is way low stress, stress ECG EKG is completely normal, something that was completely upset earlier. The blood reports are normal. So many things are normal. So, and now I'm flying to India, so I'm like looking forward to it, you know? So things are getting normalized. So they eventually will things will be better much better. And I plan, I don't think I'll be able to dig that papaya pit again this time, but I will speak, bring that topic with my brother and make sure that we make arrangements for it next time I go there because we all are waiting. I'm going to doubt that if any other cousins even remember that. But because I'm strictly told not to bring childhood memories in front of our spouses, like, he doesn't want to speak about that when his wife is around because they mostly get in trouble, or if he, I will get in trouble if my spouse hears what all we did when we were kids. So– so we have to find some private time between our cousins and figure this out. I hope none of the spouses hear this interview, otherwise everything is lost, the intent is lost, but it's fun.
[00:59:43]
So I have a court case planned. In the back of my mind, I have to work towards getting my children's custody, access to them. I would – my ideal situation would be if I have the entire custody with me. I don't know how I can reverse the court orders and how things will happen, but we'll see. And then, I had two weeks ago, I met with a small car accident that created more complications for the insurance-wise because I was loaning a friend's car, and I don't have my own insurance, and I was not on his car insurance because it was just one-time thing. So, I’m learning America, discovering America. Because, um, and I was talking to a friend, a school senior, the other day and he was furious. He said, “I don't believe that the, somebody my school, a had to go through all this.” And he was very furious. And I said, you know what, I seen the best of America when I was working on Wall Street with Citibank and JP Morgan, and I can tell you one thing, leave Covid apart, but if Wall Street screws up, I know today know what happens to a commoner like having spent three years on the street, if it was just a not being able to have a job or not having an alimony come in, right? But if families actually lose jobs or if families actually use their savings for some mistake done by somebody on the Wall Street, I have seen both the sides and I would like to someday speak when I advocate that somebody's life is dependent on our– what we do and what we don't. So there has to be some insurance like no matter what, you don't lose these this is the basics. Society has to come up with a plan that– I have lived so far, but I want to make it an easy society for my generations to come after six hundred years. I don't know what, but they should at least have this. Nobody takes that away from them. Or maybe hundred years, like, my four generations done. Because we plan for our parents and for our children, we don't think beyond, like, what's going to happen. But it affects long-term. So, so there's a lot of America– not all countries are uniformly formed, and they don't have the same kind of resources for the residents and citizens, but there is certain things all people on the planet should have that nothing should be taken away from that certain things should never be taken away from them. And one thing I realized and learned, I didn't know that in the family court, if one spouse requests the Social Security benefits of the other spouse can be suspended for life. Meaning, if the– if that request is approved, the court, the church can say, no Medicare, Medicaid, no SSI, no SSD, no food stamps for you for the other spouse. The reasons could be anything. That is one thing I felt that America should undo. There are hundreds and thousands of people are in America whose as a social security benefits have been suspended and taken away from them legally by the family court. And that's not a nice thing to do. I'm– in India doesn't have any of it, but if the U.S. has it these, has these benefits I don't think U.S. family court judge should take this rights or benefits of parents, any, any spouse. And I'm learning a few things. I know so much about the American society now, having been spent three years on the street that probably I don't know much about the Indian society like what's happening there day-to-day now. In the last twenty years, I have been here.
[01:04:36]
Can't come up with more stories now. There's more, but it's just not coming to me now. Like I don't, I'm not able to relate to like from where to pick what story. If you have questions– are you allowed to ask questions?
When we last finished speaking last time, the last time you were talking about was how your employer was trying to convince your ex-husband to take you on a second honeymoon.
Oh, yeah, so they bought– I'll tell you how the relation is. So my dad's first cousin is married to his uncle, my female cousin is married to the employer's cousin, we all belong to the same caste or community. Like, we would say, I go to the same church, like we are a family, we go to the same church. So we are a family that– we are a group of families that migrated from Gujarat Tamara's to in the 1600s. And then we stay together for– for a long time. And then people as the– the members in the family grew people venture out from the– from one place to other. So he's a distinct relative. My mom's last– maternal last name is the same as his last name, so it's a distinct family member. So him and my ex went to engineering college at the city in the same time, studying at the same batch were born on the same day but in different cities, towns different families, and they were college roommates for– four plus two, six years– and then they spread, split, he decided to come here, he decided to stay there. And so, when we were in India, I was working for a newspaper agency before I got married, and I requested a transfer from Pune to Mumbai because I would be moving after the wedding to move in with my husband. So I couldn't manage their commute, the Bombay traffic and the Bombay-Mumbai commute, and by local trains– I mean I'm not a local train person. Like, in my city everybody has a moped. If you are 16 years and above, you have your own moped, doesn't matter. And then with a click on start, and a start of a button, you are from one spot, corner of the city, you– you're on the other. You know, like, not dependent on public transport. I have used public transport, there are, like, buses that– but not these trains that you have, have. Like I can't . So I had an accident. I had a fall. I did, did I speak about the fall? So, yeah, I had a fall and my body gave up, I couldn't– couldn't be the same person that I was in my performance at work and in my day-to-day activities. If I did anything strenuous, my body would blow, like blow up like a blueberry. I would like– so, I decided to leave the job. And I said, I'll take a desk job because that was a serious job. So, basically I'm leaving from home, going to the office, clocking in, and then I'm traveling around to the city, all over Mumbai, going and meeting clients, convincing them to give me an advertisement to be printed in the newspaper. So it was not a desk job. Like, I'm traveling all over the city and the only mode of transport was the Mumbai’s local trains. So I'm like, I can’t do this. If I wasn't Pune, I love my job, I love to my bike, and I love to go around, but I'm not doing this in Mumbai. So I said, you know, I have an alternate plan. I said, I'm leaving the job, I'm going back to my school college because my University, Pune University, I don't know if they still have it, but when we were studying, if you came back to the college for a dual major, within five years, or two years of the– leaving the college, of graduating from the college, you don't have to do the first year of the college. You just do– you just do the major and then you get an additional degree. So I had done my MBA in marketing and advertising, I had spent two years, and I got married within nine months after getting my degree. So I said, if I go back, I don't have to do the first year, I will have to do only the major, a major, the second year and I get an additional degree. And so I changed my profession from marketing and sales to HR. And I said, I will go and I'll take a desk job. So it's better that I go and have a degree. So I fill an application. I get an approval from the director and I said, I cannot come to from Mumbai to Pune, to attend the college, so what's an alternate? He says, “I need a confirmation that you will be working in the industry only then there is an excuse for you to not come and attend the college.” I said, okay. So, what we were discussing what can happen, where I can find an HR job. So, before leaving the, my newspaper, like, Indian Express, I reached out to the HR, who transfer– who did my transfer from Pune to Mumbai, and I asked, “This is my situation. Do you think you have a job for me in your office? It could be an internship that I would be willing to do.” And she said, “Okay I have no problems, we will give– I will see if I can give instead of internship, I can do– our department will transfer, like, from sales and marketing, I'll move you to the human resources.” And it didn't work out. So I already had taken the admission in the college, I was ready to put up my papers or do an integer– inter-department transfer and was going and staying with my parents in Pune and attending the college was, like was not very motivated to do that. I was only interested in having that degree certificate. So I said, okay, let me find something else. I was speaking to my ex and then we were, like, a brainstorming as what can we do? So this was, maybe he must have discussed this with his friend. His friend showed up for dinner one evening and said, “I have a company and I'm thinking of doing this with the company and I'm thinking of doing that with the company and I needed an HR person.” Blah, blah, blah. So, he came with– with his speech prepared. So I said, okay, that's a good opportunity. So I don't have to go and attend the college, I would work in corporate. He said, okay. So then I, because I didn't get an inter– inter-departmental transfer in the existing company, I put my papers and I took up his job. The only thing was he will pay for are the expenses, but there'll be no salary. I didn't matter. I was doing it for a family member. So, so I had a car, a chauffeur-driven car who would come and pick me up and take me wherever I wanted to for work, and I just had to go and sit and do the work that he needed me to do. And he basically had a small office in a residential apartment, in a residential building. So there was a two, one, two, three, bedroom apartment that he rented out, and he had converted everything into an office because he couldn't afford probably, or he, I don't know what the situation was, but at– they were at a point where they couldn't go for a corporate office. That is what I have, my assumption is and I would love to be wrong, but so whatever the reasons is so that was the set up. So there was probably only one office in the entire building. Everybody probably was residential homes. So I would go there, I will work. His requirement was that he had one department called administration and they were doing everything. So he wanted to split. He wanted operations and administration as one department, he wanted human resources at the other department, and my job was to split that and define what are the roles of both the departments. I said, okay, I'll do it. But I said, we both have to work together because it's your company. I'm– I'm not a kind of person who's going to say that because it's industry standards and because it's written in the books, this has to be done this way. No, I'm going to ask you. This is your company. How you want it to be done, I'll get it done. So that means I need a time commitment from you that you're going to spend time explaining me what you want. He said, okay. And then we worked on that and it worked. It did a– I did a wonderful job. He was happy. And so while that was happening. Wait, I lost the track. What was the important thing I was supposed to tell you? I forgot.
[01:13:55]
What we ended on, ended last, last time was we're talking about how your employer told your ex that he should take you on a second honeymoon.
Oh, yeah. So this is how– so he was a friend. He was a family. So we were sitting and chatting and I asked him for a vacation because I said, I am going, I would love to go out on a vacation. So, and he asked me the reason, I said it's my– it's my first anniversary. I was thinking of doing something I don't need, I had no idea where we were going, what are we were planning, but I would rather have a break. And so he called his friend. He was not an employer, he was not an employer, he was not an employee's spouse. He what he called his college friend and he said he he called him and he said, “You should be taking your wife out. What are you guys doing?” And he'd– the way he presented, probably was that he was calling him that he has not made a plan and he was forcing him that, “You have to be, you have to take care of her. You have to give her time. You have to take her out and blah, blah, blah.” So he, my husband, my ex got upset like, “What is it that you tell– told him, like, why is the– why did he call me and tell me all these things. Did you complain?” It came as if I complained, and he was calling, and it's a very common thing, I mean, you will have your employees do this. I mean, you will not probably have to go to a relationship therapist but your employees, your, your co-workers will do all this job for you and it's a common culture. You might have your bus– you might be taking a bus trip and the bus driver might solve your relationship issue for you. I mean you don't even need to go to a therapist. I mean it's done there while you are traveling. So, I mean, so it's a different culture there. So this he called he said blah blah blah and then he came to– to me, my husband came to me and he said, “What did you tell him? Why did he speak to me?” Like I said I only asked for a vacation and so he forced– he made sure asked me what's my favorite vacation– vacation spot then he convinced the– he introduced him, my ex, and a travel agent made sure all the bookings worked on and we were on the flight to Carmon. So he gave his camcorder, he gave his camera, take lots of pictures, take lots of videos and this and that and I'm like I have my camera, like, I can charge it or, like, whatever, he was super excited to plan everything for me. Like, for him it was an achievement. That what I did for him, he wanted to reciprocate, right? But, but there was, I would have loved some boundaries, like a boundary, where he would come, and he would just get into the house and he said, I'm brushing my teeth and he's there at the door, Sunday morning. Like give me a break. Like, I want to sleep another hour or I just don't want, I just want to sit on the couch and read newspaper. I don't even want to go in the kitchen and he was all decked up, and he says, “Okay, what's in your kitchen? Okay, let's make this.” I think you could find you figured out, I'm not coming the kitchen. That's kind of relationship we had built, and he would cook the food, the breakfast, and we are all eating the breakfast. I'm like, and my husband is like, “Did you invite him?” I said, no, I would ask him, “Did you invite him?” He said, no. He just rung the bell and it's okay. I mean, it's okay. This– this is how relationships in India work. So I'm like, at one point out of time, it started irritating me. Like, I need my space. I felt that I was losing control of my kitchen. I'm a woman and that's the last thing I want, right? So, I mean, so it was okay, but he probably was happy that he found a friend in me. He was probably happy that he had somebody by him in the office, who listened only to him and didn't bother what the employees were talking about the employer. So he was, we had– for a wonderful relationship. Hold on, I see.
[01:18:33]
Basically, he– that was a wonderful relationship. And at one point of time, draw boundaries– boundaries when he started convincing that I go to a specific astrologer and check my future and plan my future based on what the astrologers say. And I said wait, my mom is an astrologer. I know how good, how bad, and how much of it I want in my day-to-day life. Because I have experienced good and bad. And at one point of time, when my mom was doing her certification in astrology from, I was probably in the first or second grade, probably, my mom, my dad, my sister, younger sister, was probably one year or two years old. And by the time I came in the seventh grade I had access to all my mom's books that she studied, right? And by eighth grade, I had by– had I knew I understood nothing but I by-hearted everything. It took me, like, after my son was born to understand and relate what I had by-hearted them, like, I took me a long time to understand what I had by-hearted. So if you ask me something, I knew something, but I didn't know the cause and effect, like, how it works. So when he would tell me to go to a particular astrologer, go to him and he's going to do this because he did this for me, and he would say– As an HR manager, I was supposed to be his HR manager for the time frame. His decision-making when of hiring would come and he would say, “No, I have to check his charts with the astrologer,” and I said, that's, “I don't know if you should be something touching somebody's charts without their permission, and I don't think that is acceptable way of hiring.” It happens in India. It is acceptable. So sudden things started, that didn't go well, and I would push back and he would still do it when I couldn't stop him from doing it or change him from doing it, but I wanted him to not interfere with my personal one. I didn't want him to open my charts in public and have a discussion about it, like it is mine. It's like it's my DNA test. It's my astrological charts. I wanted to either make it public or either want to keep it private. So when you are super charged in relationship, super excited and enthusiastic and you think that we are the best friends, sometimes you fail to draw the boundaries. Like, you think you can make decisions for your friends, and that's what happened, and that I did not like. I'm– I was a little reserved person and I am can be the most friendliest person, but I don't want you to make decisions for me and we can have a discussion whether we do it or not, do it at the– you do it. I will not do it or I will do it. You don't do it. But you don't make decisions for me and somewhere he started doing that, and that relationship had to stop at one point of time. And he was an in this– all this was happening, my ex decided to come to America. And– and the most insecure person was him because he was going to lose me. He gave me an offer. “I will give you this. I'll give that. I will pay you so much salary. Blah blah blah blah blah. Leave your husband.” He said, “you stay back here,” and he was like, “I cannot lose a friend.” I said being a friend is one thing I can be if you and I have to be so good friends, I can be on the next flight anytime to come meet you. But you giving me an option to leave my husband or separate, stay a separated life from my husband is not a good option that you are saying, giving. And he told me, I know certain things about your husband that I haven't shared with you but I don't want you to join him to America. So when this all happened, after moving in, I reached out to him and I said, I told, told him what I went through. He said, “I told you not to join my friend in America. There are certain things we men know, but we cannot share, but I didn't wanted you to be with him in America.” So he was protective of me. He was not hurtful or harmful, he was overly protective, but he was overly possessive so. But there was at one point between two men, there was a tug-of-war anyways. So having said that, what else can I say? So, we had a lot of fights, arguments, lot of things happened. We are not the best of the friends that we had developed a relationship with during that eight, nine months that we worked together, but we still are on a phone call away. If we are to each other, the last time he was in trouble, he needed my help. And he said, I was on the next flight to– to help him. I said, he said things went out of control in the office and he needed to– iIt's just certain things done. So I was– I was there. I mean, so and that hit my husband, he didn't like it. Like, “So you are more friends to him than I was?” So I said, “I don't know what kind of relationship you and him had. You have seen me and his relationship develop that he can trust me and, being the CEO of the company, he can call me and say that I need you on the next flight.” He actually booked my flights and he said, “I need your help,” so he trusts my ability to help as a CEO of the company, and that's a big thing for me. So– so that relationship is on a pause, but it doesn't go beyond that. I mean, there's nothing beyond that is just work. Everything is work-related, related because when we were working together, India didn't had free internet or free Wi-Fi, right? So he– he was a telecom communication, telecom infrastructure company. So companies like BSNL, MTNL, Reliance who are all the big players who were in India or are in India who were in telecom, had needed their fiber optic cables dug into, dug into the– into the ground, right? They had to it had to be laid over all over the country and they would not do it themselves, they would take the contracts from the government, or they would take the contracts for that, it would be their own private contracts, and then they would outsource it to small business companies businesses who would actually find labor, and dig it, and place the fiber optic of of wires, and then make the the WiFi available, Internet available to the rest of the country. This– we are talking of 2003, four and five. So apart from setting up two different apartment departments, I was also hiring– hiring engineers who can do this job and it was a massive hiring drive, like, we needed– we needed one hundred engineers to do our job yesterday. We were so desperate, like, we were hiring anybody and everybody who said, “Okay, I'm willing to be on the next flight to Bangalore, or I'm willing to be on the next flight to Delhi.” So, that was the time when we were hiring like crazy, and when you know somebody that the job will be done, then you go back to the same person that, “I need another job to be done.” That's the only relationship we had. But my ex probably had an issue that now I was busy outside and I was not waiting home for him to come from– from work. Dinner probably was not ready and cooked by me waiting for– if he called me from the work, he knew all the dinner will be hot ready on the table set so that he comes freshens up and we'll have dinner. So all that– all that time together, between him and I was gone because I was busy hiring engineers and digging holes and putting the fiber optics. But so, it was fun and– and probably he– he, I think he wanted– he– coming to America was his idea that he would separate his friend and me, because we were just busy working all the time, and he probably wanted my attention. That is what I felt. But I don't think so. When I came here it was something else. Very very, very something else.
[01:28:22]
Probably we can talk about it next time, if we can have the time, but there is– we can leave it for your to– My mom comes from the same town where my ex-husband comes from, and my dad's mom comes from the same town where my ex-husband comes from, and my great grandmother's mother comes from the same town where my ex-husband comes from. So, to that town– the name of the town is called Mahar–so when we first migrated from our ancestors migrated from Gujarat, so that was the first town everybody settled. And then everybody went out of that town. So for us in India, that is the base town. Everybody has to have some family member or some extended family in that town, and everybody is connected to the temple or the Krishna in that town. That reminds me that tomorrow is Krishna’s birthday. We are celebrating Krishna’s birthday. There is going to be a big celebration since all Hindu temples overnight. It will start at twelve o'clock. Because he was born at midnight at the strike of twelve. So, so anyway, so, so that town, everybody has roots in that town because that was the first time everybody from Gujarat came and settled in? So, I have a special relationship with that town, and I don't want it to be associated with that town with my bad experiences with my in-laws. But I have family in that town and cultures in that family is common. His family, I thought would be the same, but it is a shock. And he, the common thing is my grandfather, my mom's father, when the movies came up in the early 1900's, he had a movie theater, my dad's father had a movie theater. My–who else– my grandmother's–my great grandmother's father, like, my had a movie theater, that's where it came to my grandfather and well my– my great-grandfather's great-grandmother's of, like, maternal family, like, her father's side of the family also had a movie theater. So all these movie theaters families got somehow ended up marrying amongst each other. The only family out was my ex-husbands, but they also own family, family-owned movie theater. This was the first time we were marrying into their family and so, I thought it would be a normal life, like, just like ours. But it was not for him. He had an animosity that we were– we were families of richer. We were richer than his family, or our families, our movie theaters had more business than his, his family. Maybe he– he lived in the town. He knew the history, he knew the economics, he knew the statistics between all, and there was competition and rivalry probably but not to an extent that you have in mind and you intend in mind that I want to harm somebody from that. He expressed it to me that he married somebody from the family because with the intent to do harm. Probably there was jealousy, probably there was animosity, there was competition I don't know what it was. He said that I wanted to ruin a life of– from a girl from your family, so it didn't matter who– which girl it was going to be, he probably must have tried other women in the family but his intent was to harm. And not the common business between this, all the families was rice mills, rice husking mills and rice polishing mills. All the families had the same business, so there was competition, but there was complete it was but our sides of the family looked at it as a companionship, our children got married amongst each other. I don't know why this one particular family was sidelined or some stayed separate, but whatever happened. According to my knowledge, my two children are the only two living children, who have a DNA of all the movie theaters and rice mills together. So anyway, so finally, he said it to me that he, he said he wanted to harm a female from my family, and he said to me that he wants to harm my children and I will see how their life will be better. Meaning he will not let their life to be better. So I don't know how he thinks, but his friend warned me that you should not be with him alone in America. That would– I should have taken it that as an warning. I didn't. I should have stayed back in India, never come and settled, I don't know. But he was protective. He was possessive, and he was alerting me against my husband because they lived– they studied together for six years, and they lived in the same hostel for six years. They probably shared the same room so they know– know each other more, and certain things men don't want to just explain about that but they– they are willing to protect. You know, they– everything doesn't have to be spelled out, but certain things have to be understood in silence. And I ignored it. So, he– he had weird idea of life and he has weird way of looking at life. And I had to find out why. So I looked in spirituality, I looked in rebirth, I look everywhere, and I came to a conclusion that he is born on a new moon day. It's the darkest day of the month, and culturally people born on such days are considered evil. So I just accepted that that he is going to be evil and I had to protect myself because I was not born on such a day. And everything you say is perceived differently, is always perceived of differently. I'm like, I've said this, how did you perceive that? And it just doesn't trigger that somebody can perceive it this way but they just perceive it differently. So, so I have that guilt that I was trying to get out of hell and I let my children be there. And that my struggle as a mother to get them out– they might be happy there, they might be safe, but the last text messages I received in November for my children, I know they are not. I went to the court and it didn't work the way I thought it would. So I have to put some cash together. I'm going to dig that papaya pit, get some cash and gold from there. And I'm going to hire a good lawyer and see if I can get my children's custody or do something about it, I don't know what.
[01:36:20]
Because there is a restraining order, restraining order. Because In 2015-16, after the divorce, he's probably started socializing in single men’s or divorcees or singles mingles, and obviously he was there. I had to be somewhere and men in those group probably tracked me down, or he shared my information, I don't know. So, I had people following me to the grocery store, following me to the– to the– to the house. And I’m like who the hell are this man? And I have a started– start getting friends requests on social media and I'm like, what is the source? And he said you are available now, so what’s the big deal. I said, no, I'm not. I have no intent of allowing anybody else in my life so why are you making it public that I am available? Don't give out my information. You don't have to tell my name, who your wife was. People are tracking me on social media, people are tracking me home and his sexual advance meant behaviors continued after the divorce. He said, “Why can't we have a friend–” what's that concept called? Friends with benefits. “Why can't we remain friends with benefits?” So, I'm like, trying– and when I said would say no or push him back, he would find reasons to separate me and the children. So, I was pissed off. And I went for an interview, and I was dressed up in an formal attire. I was coming home my part to my car, and he comes to meet me or pick up the children, some reason he comes in my complex, he sees me and he pushes me on the wall of the complex, somebody else's room apartment. “Why could you not have dressed like this earlier? I would not have left you.” I said, “What do you mean? You just left me for my dressing sense?” Um, I didn't know what to say and the– the advances he was trying to make in public in the parking lot– I'm like I felt threatened and unsafe after the divorce– and I pushed him back and I lost my mind, I started sending him threatening messages so that he should stop doing this that I'm not interested. And I tried to remind him of his mother that I am a mother trying to associate that if you have a mother, I'm a children's mother. Keep it respectable. And I went overboard with the language that I used and the medium that I used, and I probably am wrong in the eyes of the law. As a mother I don't think I did anything wrong, and I threatened him saying keep your beamer to yourself otherwise I would– will break it. So, I was trying to say something else, but he associated that he has a BMW and I'm going to destroy– destroy his car. And I couldn't explain what I meant by ‘beamer’ in the court of law to the judge and they got, or he wouldn't listen to me or give me a chance to explain what happened. And I didn't had a lawyer at the– on the day of when the final restraining order was signed. So, it went in force and I'm like, okay, whatever happens, happens. So now I cannot meet my children. His BMW and the beamer are safe. I am safe with the restraining order, but my children, I don't think so. I want them out of him because he has said to me that he intends to harm my children, because that hurts me. Anything to harm me, he's going to try. And so, if hurting my children is going to harm me, he's going to try that. So I– and I don't think that's a good thing for me, my children can do better. Better without him but they have their mother. He, his mother has done a lot of harm– and this is not the first time I have been homeless. I have been homeless three to four other times just because I ended up marrying him. His poor decisions, his poor actions for planning and his– his, problem with him is anybody can– anybody can intimidate him into doing something that he doesn't think it's wrong for him. He is okay. And his mother put up a fight between both of us when I was pregnant with my daughter and I was homeless even then, but I went back to the home as if nothing happened and I just ignored and shut him, and I continued living in the house. It didn't go well too long because, after delivery, we separated come and never came back together. So now, I don't think much of a anything else. I mean, they could have but he sent to me that he– he doesn't– he doesn't pay attention. He– he has problems with his parenting skills. He has a girlfriend probably, and he's more attentive to the girlfriend and her children. And my children feel that neglected, that father– that if my father can be this kind of an attentive person to the girlfriend's children, and their needs, then he sure can be attentive to our needs, but he is not. And that's what they sent me in text, and I understand what it means. So I don't want any more neglect for my children.
[01:42:18]
What else? I think we should take a break. If something remembered, if I remember something more, I'll write it down. So, I'll tell you. So I– listening to the dead people's voices, I have sent hundreds of thousands of emails to people, to people, to their– to their families who are alive. I’ve sent emails to President Trump, President George Bush, the Prime Minister of Canada. These are the people that are celebrated that you might know, but there I have spent hundreds and thousands of dollars from I don't know how that money comes, but I cannot spend that money for myself. I have to put that money aside and the– I have spent to buy gifts for these dead people's families and send this gift to them. Trust me, I'm stuck with these dead people and I don't know how, maybe I'm just wishing that with this gifts, even the dead people go to their families. But from something happened somewhere. I don't know how I attracted so many dead people towards me. I will say, I– it's not the first time I'm seeing deads, so when I was a child, I used to see dead. But in the land that I was in, the city I was, there was a king from the town that my mom and dad mom comes from. There was a king, so what's happened? And I would see that dead soldiers as a child, I would. So, when I came to America, the first thing I saw was the dead people in 9/11. I saw JFK, I saw President Abraham Lincoln, the– these all-dead people were around to me when I came. So all the soldiers that I had with me, around me, protecting me, that nothing happens to me when I was in India, all of a sudden probably could needed a passport to come to America and couldn't come inside here. And when I came here, all of a sudden, I had all different kind of dead people around me. When I went to London, trust me, I senses to something, but I couldn't see it. Probably it was Princess Diana, probably it was not, I didn't know, but I could sense. I could sense. I've had massive anxiety attacks when I went to London and it– I, and when I was in the– what is that Tower of London, right? Is that tower where princess, Queen Elizabeth the First, was kept by her sister, she was imprisoned in that Tower. So, I went and saw that place. And I was looking around, walking around, and I said, you know, I feel that I was– I was– I was in, London sometime in my past, like, I was a prisoner. I felt as if I've– somebody had imprisoned me in that Tower once and I was writing about it and I said, after coming here today, I feel now I am released from that prison. I don't know what it was. So I will tell you, if you remember, I told you how my mom would beat me up as a child, she, it was, she fought and argued with my dad that I had to go to an English medium school, a private English medium school, and not go to a Catholic school or not go to a vernaculars local, local school or public school, right? So, then I started picking up English and singing songs and poems in English. She would beat me up and she would say, firangi. Firangi is a word for British or Europeans who are not Indians, like a foreigner in literature. Foreigner. Apparently, she would call me, “How do you know English so well? How did you pick up English?” She would call me, and she would abuse me more. Like, I am like a dead soldier from a British Army in India, and I'm born in India to her. And now she wants to torture me as an as an enemy born in India. So, I was like, that's probably the reason if I do, reason I probably isn't one of the reason probably might have stopped singing and reciting my poems and gave my stage away. I don't know. So, when I went to London, I felt connected. I was there for three months through two and a half months, and I felt that I was either a British army officer, or enlisted soldier, or and prisoner. I don't know what, but I felt I was there. Let's take a break. I'll come back.
[01:47:47]
[End of Recording Two]
[Beginning of Recording Three]
[00:00:00]
Fashion and it has to be latest fashion. Like, I know I was in a wedding, and I was borrowing my grandmother– I borrowed a sari from my grandma, and the women came and asked me– for all my cousin's. Ask me like, “You didn't get time to shop?” I said, “Why?” “Like, you came directly from the airport?” I said, “Why are you asking such mean questions?” Like why are you wearing such an old-fashioned sari? I mean how old-fashioned is it? Maybe it's this fashion is like five years old. It's not current anymore. I said, “That's my grandma's sari, and I just loaned it from her.” She said, I mean, it could be it, you have to be, you been a– you land there I cannot wear my last year's clothes because it's old fashioned. I have to buy something new that is now current in fashion. It's funny. She's wearing her old clothes. My friends, they are crazy about clothing. I mean they have to, and we all at one point of time we all had our own tailors. Tailors who would stitch our clothes the way we want it for us, right? There was no ready-made clothes, we would go to a store, buy the clothes, design it to how we want it to be stitched and then tell him, “Okay, this is my design to stitch it for me.” So, somebody watch something in the movie, somebody watch something on a model, and the– it had to be stitched right now. Like and I wouldn't follow these celebrities or the models, fashion industry, but I would– I would want my clothes to be decent and comfortable. And think– what is what they would call me? Auntie, I had an old-fashioned or not so glossy looking choice or preferences. So they had glitter and shimmer, and everything on their clothes, and I was just wearing plain cotton, plain cotton linens. So, everybody is different. And that if, and if a movie star wore this sari in that color in this movie, okay, I'm going to buy this sari in that color and wear it for this event. So, the only for event, there is an event. And in India, there, everything is an event. So, if you have an event, you go shopping. And the event is, my brother is getting married and there is my, there is an anniversary, there is a birthday. So, you just go, and because it is an event in your family, you go and buy. In America, I realized there is a event in the mall in the store and then you go and buy. I mean, it's completely different culture. It might be different. I don't know how everyday Americans do it. But what I see, most of the people you get, and discount called coupon in the mail and then you go and buy it just because you have the discount coupon and then save it for whenever you want to use it. This culture is coming to India but it's still not entirely. People, people will go and buy because my– there is a meeting parent-teacher meeting in the school and I want something new. I don't want anything old-fashioned that I already wore, or last time she wore it better than me. I have heard my friends say that in the parent-teacher meeting that that child's mother wore like that, and I moved felt I was dressed not at par, and so now I have to go shopping. A friend of mine said, I asked her, “Where are you going?” And that was her reason. Women can be all sorts of women, and I’m one, too. So [pause] it’s funny.
[00:04:10]
One more thing– when a parent teachers association reminded me of– when my son was in the daycare, I was part of the PTA and they said they had one problem for ten years unsolved, or maybe five years unsolved, was that the complex, the shopping complex are that the day care was in– the– the what is it called? The daycare was in. So, when I was in, so there was only one way out, and one way in, there was no traffic light and you had to wait like minutes, twenty minutes, fifteen minutes to make the left or make the right of the complex and it. If the parents were dropping their kids before of office hours, they would be late to catch their trains if they couldn't make the left or the right of the complex. So, they were figuring out every PTA meeting dropping off, drop off and exit was part of discussion. I don't know if it is anywhere in writing, but right before I– all this happen in my life and we were moved to India, I suggested that it's the border. On the left side is South Plainfield, on the right side of the complex is Edison, the fence lies on the border of South Plainfield and Edison, probably the road falls under the county road. I don't know if it's as if it is the Township Road. So, we'll have to figure out a way where both the town's come together and put a traffic light. And the owner of the complex opens up another entrance behind, behind the truck, behind the other side of the complex, and– and there has to be a traffic light there. Because there are there that, that creates– if he opens up at the fence, it will create a four-way on that intersection, right? And I gave that suggestion in, and I said, this has to be done, but the PTA is not going to get involved from anything beyond giving such actions like you, we are not going to go to the township and do the paperwork. The owners of the– the owners of the– what is it called? The daycare and the owner of the complex has to work together to find a solution. And this is the best solution that we have come up with. And I gave all this suggestion to him because I– I didn't have to, I didn't have to run anywhere because I was a stay-at-home mom, but still my child was in the daycare against my wish again. Because the whole idea was, he wanted to alienate the mother and child, in the way he did it with the daughter and mother, he also did it with the mother and son. And so he would, he would find reasons to keep the child away and day care was the best reason he could find. So anyway, so I would– I would– I would understand to the plight of the other parents who had to drop their child and couldn't make the– the exit and would miss the train to work because they had to park at Metro Park or Metuchen train station. So, I spent a lot of time walking around in the parking lot, walking around on the street to figure out what can happen. And I came with a plan, a map saying that this is the only solution and that was implemented. Because when I came back from India, there was a traffic light, there was an exit there, and both the townships have a common traffic light at an intersection on Woodland and Oak Tree Road. So, I was like, it worked, but I don't know if anybody recognizes that it was my idea, my hard work, but anyways– and even this year I was working with the president Joon Choi, I believe the president, the mayor and his team was working on complaints that students going to Middlesex County College cannot make a left turn if they're coming from Metuchen on Woodbridge. Because there was a left turn, but there was no traffic light and it would– they would be late to go to the work, to the school, to the college, to their lectures, because the ongoing traffic wouldn't let them make the turn because it's mostly truck– truck traffic. So, there was a lady, I forgot, I told him that I used to work with her, and she was trying to press and get an approval that a traffic light is needed, and she needed more votes and she needed more help that if there is more voices, saying the same thing, there will be a traffic light. I said, okay, let's get it done and then when I came back, there was a traffic light. So, I– I felt good when, when I go there for a walking I see, like, there’s a traffic light. The children can make the left turn on time. So, I did, I would spend a lot of time doing all these things in the afternoon, because when the– when I had to fill myself and my time with something else, because I was taken away from my child against my will. I didn't want to send my child to the daycare. I was happy taking care of him, taking him to the park, going to the mall, or some playing with him. Him and I started playing soccer, and I taught him how to play soccer. And there was initial times, I didn't want to win, I didn't want, I had decided I'm not going to lose on purpose, so let him– let him snatch the ball from me, right? And he did at the, as a young age of, as young as two, he knew how to get the ball from me. I'm not a soccer player, but I was much better than him at the age of his two, right? When I could, but he learned to take it from me. So, he wanted to make a career in soccer, he had an injury, and I don't think he will be able to do it. We'll see how it goes. But I have no access so I have no, no, no, no say, no access and I'm tight, tight that I cannot make any choices and decisions for my children.
[00:10:58]
We were at the meeting, at the COC meeting, yesterday in Sayreville. A lot of different NGOs and organizations and departments came there, there the representative from the Camden. So, the– to figure out what we can do for the low-income and the homeless. So, we were coming up with ideas and I said, we have something called as a social worker, we have a case manager, for all these people, but there is no financial advisor. I think what is needed, in my situation, I would love to have a financial advisor, a– given to me by the state or by the county. Like if there can be a social worker and a case manager, they can very well arrange for a financial advisor. A lot of people can seek help if there is somebody who can help them plan their finances and who can help people lower their loans. I mean, you are homeless because at one point, you have exhausted all your credit lines and you can't, have no way to pay it off. You have tried filing. And filing bankruptcy is one, but if you can repay it or somebody to help you with repayment and planning your finances, that would be great for you up to each of the limitation. What happens is the moment you start earning, if I don't have a job today, that's fine. I don't I– my benefits are not tweaked. The moment I get my first paycheck all my benefits, will– will lower, like, I will my food stamps will go up proportionately down or will go to zero based on my income. My health insurance that from the state will either shut down or will– in will have and premium attached to it. So, if I have an income, I have to pay a thirty percent of my income as rent proportion, right. Just so when you have all these deductions going, there is not enough left for expenditure, and there is not enough left for repayment of the loan. So, I was suggesting that if these if a financial advisor is included as part of the Social Service Administration or on support system for– for people like us. And if the– if the state or the federal government allows that, the benefits will be untouched until the loan payment is complete. Means if I have fifty thousand of credit card loans on four different credit cards or five different credit cards, that financial advisors should be able to help me repay all of that. And once he gives a documentation submits, that the reloan repayments is done, then all the deductions should come in place. So that way the family is– because taking a pill for anxiety, I think if somebody is there to help with planning of finance, it will release the anxiety of a lot of people. So, what a financial advisor or an additional source can do a pill might not do for him. Because it's not solving a problem, it's just numbing you, and you are in times of stress. So, it's not solving a solution, giving you a solution. So, I know, a pill– a financial advisor cannot be an alternate for taking an anxiety pill, but he's going to help you reduce and help your family plan your finances for the next four or five years. Or maybe one year. Whatever that time is going to be. And that is a missing link. I felt like a lot of people here. I speak to a lot of people I met on the street; they have the similar problems. Like how do we pay our credit card loans? We have creditors calling us sending us emails sending us– they're trying to find us wherever we are. It's not that we are running, but how do we pay you? When you are in a situation, you're frozen with ideas, you don't get clearer ideas. You don't know how to get a solution to a situation. Some– somebody from outside has to help you and think for you, and I think a financial advisor along with the social worker and along with the case manager will do a lot of good to all these families. So, there were ten different or nine different suggestions on ten, nine different topics with my group, we all came up with this idea. I said, this is what I think our and everybody agreed. And said they are, we all need that help because– because I'm going through the situation myself. Like, when I was on the street, I maxed out all my credit cards. And I don't know how I'm going to pay out that. But we'll see. I'm going to dig that papaya.
So, [Redacted], I think I need to stop here just because of time
Oh, absolutely.
[00:16:45]
[End of Recording Three]
TRANSCRIPT 4
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Edison, New Jersey
October 13, 2022
Transcription by Katie Scrivani
Annotations by Lucy Gilch
[00:00:00]
So just to state it quickly, this is Dan Swern. It is 12:05 p.m. here at Amandla Crossing. I'm here interviewing–
[Redacted]
[Redacted], thank you again. This is our fourth time sitting together and, whenever you're ready, just go for it.
So, um, To begin with Jason Clay– Can I take names? Was instrumental in helping me and making things available and easy for me.
[Editor’s Note: The narrator shared that one worker in particular, Jason Clay, assisted her in getting into supportive housing at Amandla's Crossing. Jason came to know the narrator around the time when she was unhouse for about thirty-nine months. She eventually decided to allow Jason to help her naviagte the channels of support available to her. Jason Clay works for Rutgers University Behavioral Healthcare (UBHC).]
As he said, I'm new to America and I know nothing about America. I need an American’s help. So he was my aid, and in, um, getting me an apartment at Amandla's, I was homeless for probably thirty-six to thirty-nine months, and I had gone to India in 2017 to do– finish off certain things that needed to be done after the divorce. The first thing on my list was to register my divorce in India because we got married in India according to the Hindu marriage. And the Indian government doesn't accept or honor divorces outside India, if you are Indians married in India. So before 2018, the process supposedly was that you go back to India, both the spouses, request to that your document divorce be accepted in India, and as for case is probably what they would do is either make you do a six months couples therapy together or accept your divorce that was settled outside India. So it depends, it was not the same for everybody, that's what I heard from a lot of people, but many people just ignored. They took American citizenships and never went to India, and they got married to somebody else in America. They did it, just ignored the– the entire Indian process. I don't know what I was trying to seek personally, but I still, even today I hold an Indian passport and India– India doesn't allow dual citizenship, so I was in a flux of what to do. Whether to declare my America– declared my divorce, and ignore the Indian courts and get the American citizenship, or just, you know, forget about everything except the American divorce in American courts and continue with my life. So, but the problem was he was not very cooperative and respectful during the divorce in America and there was marital property in India as well as the US, and he made it look messy and he made it, a lot of it, a lot of it messy. And the experiences I had was, I was being mistreated, disrespected during the entire course of divorce. Tried to– people trying to bully me. Him–his lawyers, people around us, trying to tell me that I'm not an American citizen. I'm– I'm an Indian with a green card and now he is a naturalized American citizen. So I don't get a child custody, I don't get the proper– I don't get my dignity. I don't get– they are doing me a favor, I mean the way they made it look and they portrayed the Divorce by making me feel as an outsider in America. And being a mother means nothing, and children don't need a mother, and mother doesn't need her children, and it's all about being American and they don't care about non-Americans– was the experience I had during– in the courthouse with the judge with the lawyers, with my lawyer, my own lawyer, with his lawyer, with him. Everybody around talking and treating me as if they want the children and that they had, and the mother is not needed in the children's life and children don't need a mother. So I had a nothing to support me except a piece of paper that says, “India doesn't accept divorces outside India.” That was the only support system piece of paper that I had. If anything, if the Indian courts could do anything for me, especially for child custody, but there was nothing that they could do is what I figured out. But that was my only hope. So that was the reason, one reason I went to India after the divorce. The second reason was, after the divorce, I needed some spiritual and religious things done to disconnect with my ex-husband. So a lot of people here, they say, say, “Go to a shaman and disconnect your cords and do this and do that.” So I just needed, needed to do some, some rituals so that I just, you know, let go that relationship peacefully and not come and haunt me and harm me the way he was, as I told you earlier, what he would do, and how he would do it. So, I just wanted a disconnect and not attract him back to me– his offers, his continuous– him continuously pestering of me, of wanting to be friends with benefits or him giving out my phone numbers to unknown men, him– he– him forcing me, himself, forcing himself on me, barging into the house, tearing my clothes, putting down his pants– or whatever he did during the course of the divorce, and after the divorce before I went to India– it was like too much for me to manage as a woman and– and as a mother and as a human being, I just needed some time away from everything and I needed to disconnect cords with him so that I don't attract him back towards me.
[00:06:41]
So that was the other point. Then the– I wanted to transfer the marital property from in India in his name. So that he releases my 200k, that he owes me, that he hasn't yet given me, right? So if I give him the property in India, he would supposed to give me all the money. Now, he has the property, but I had don't have the money yet from him. So– so my lawyers, I had three layers, all of them did a sloppy job. And at– at inside me, I know I was mistreated because I was not an American. I was just a green card holder, and I was to believe that. And I was treated that– and I wasn't– and I heard every one of them saying, whether it was the judge sitting in the courthouse, whether it was my lawyer, whether it also has his lawyer, whether it was him, I was made to believe, I will all of these people, that I'm not an American, and I don't deserve what– what I owe, it belongs to me. I mean, it is written in the mantle agreement, this is the agreement, and it's just on paper, is not in reality. So the Americans have everything and I am, I'm– and they took me, they took our everything off me, right? They didn't leave me nothing– no children, no money, no job, no dignity, no house. And I was pestered that– I told you I applied for asylum with Russia because I didn't know what else to do. There was no going back to India with what the experiences that I had there, what he spread about me, what his family's doing to my family back. And I'm like, what? There was a time during, before the all this happened, my parents didn't want me back in the family because you just brought just too many memories and experiences just because of one wedding with this one man. And the family associates it with the American influence on our children, right? If this man was in India, he dare not believe behave with his wife and children in the manner he would do that to, right? There is fear. There is a shame. There is– there is pressure from the society to– with the American influence, people just misbehave and mistreat. And there was a– when I went to India, I saw the news that they're an Indian lady burnt, her was burnt down by the in-laws, and husband in New York. Did you read that? So, this is happening in India every day, but now they have brought it to America as well, right? They have– shameless. So for me, it was like, you have it in writing. You, I, and the court agreed that this has to happen and you take it from me, and then you don't give it back to me, right? So, um, the rights to the respect that I had for the American legal system, whether it's the lawyer, whether it's the judges, whether it's the cops was completely gone, and I needed a break from everything. And then as I told you, I don't know where and what was spread about me, but there were people following me, tracking me.
[00:10:00]
And there was some Mexican or Spanish people in my bedroom. I don't know how they got access to even enter my apartment, asking what are– what will our church of people do if President Trump builds the wall. I said, “I am busy with my court case and custody trying to find a job. I have no idea what has happening in the political world.” And who am I? I didn't know I'm an influential woman, that my opinion comes– that somebody unknown person is knocking at my door asking me to stand up for them, right? So I just, I took a trip to– to Canada for just a vacation, it didn't work. I had people tracking me there and following me to Canada. That experience, I don't want to share. It's for some another time, some another event, but the only thing I said, you know what, let me get these things done. When I go to India, I'll do the rituals, I'll do the paperwork for the property, I'll do the paperwork for the divorce declaration in India. I– and I need a vacation. And, to be honest, I had no clothes, I had absolutely no Indian clothes to wear, and my plan was to get some Indian clothes. Just go shopping in India and be back before the Diwali so that I have some new clothes. So I went there in July, end of July, and I was supposed to come back in three weeks, and that three weeks ended up being a super six weeks, six months. When I came here, he had gone to the court saying, “She abandoned the responsibility of the children. She's not coming back.” And he even before that he stopped paying me alimony, so I couldn't pay my credit card bills because he stopped paying the alimony, I had no income and I was stuck there with no source of money and, and then he said, “What do you want to do?” I couldn't wait– pay the rent because there was nothing coming in so I said, okay, just empty the apart– when I have, what am I going to do else? What else am I going to tell you? Like, I can't hire a lawyer sitting here fight– fight for you, with you, in the court, asking to that you pay me the alimony money, right? So I was paying fifty percent of the children's expenses more than $600 per month to him from the alimony. And the– we had a contract in the marital agreement that there will be no child support– I will not ask child support from– from him, and he will not try ask child support from me. So I was like, he went to the court saying, she's not paying me anything, but he was the one who was not paying me anything. And then, the court ordered some that I pay her– the child support, because I was not paying him anything. So now there was no alimony coming, and there was areas in child support for almost six. What fifty weeks, fifty weeks, no, more than fifty weeks, not fifty weeks, how much is it? Fifty months? I think twelve, twelve, 2008, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two. Yeah. So five years of abuse, but so, I was like, the first time I went to the airport to be– to come back to America as on schedule after three weeks. I don't know what happened. It felt like somebody had blocked my passport, and somebody in India didn't wanted me coming back, that's what I've sensed– could not be true, could be false, but that was my– my sixth sense or my gut feeling that was deep. What was happening was my understanding of what happened in during at the airport. So I went there, and everybody was else has checked in but I was told we cannot let you fly and the person sitting there at the condo says, “I lose my job if I let you fly.” So I'm like, why would you lose your job if you let me fly, I have to go to my children and they're not have to go back and they wouldn't let me fly. I tried calling the customer, “We don't know what's happening.” No answers, the flight left. At the moment of flight left, I collapsed and fainted at the airport and there was no help for twelve hours. I was on the floor, fainted twelve hours. Nobody came to pick me up, midnight, two o'clock, one o'clock, sometime I opened or maybe one, I opened my eyes. I stood up myself, I could after, like, five o'clock in the evening, evening or seven o’clock in the evening. I'm assuming it might be that time. I don't know, I opened my eyes. I could see and I could sense things happening, but I couldn't keep them open for a long time, and nobody bothered to come help me, asked me if I needed help, there were people, there were other passengers at the airport, walking around with– there was staff walking around, nobody will past twelve o’clock, I could see somebody asking me for help by the time actual help came a doctor. Some staff, some airport manager who came and attended me was past one o’clock a.m. and I was at the airport for a nine o’clock or seven o’clock flight, I believe. And I said, “If you are letting everybody else go, why can't you let me go?” So I didn't, I have yet to figure out what happened on that day and why the airport staff would let her lose her job if they would let me go. So anyway, so I've– I've fainted, I woke up, and they then they put me on a wheelchair at around two-ish a.m. the next day, and they took me to a place that had a small– small– small dispensary kind of a thing with the nurse and a doctor, probably. And then they are an all of a sudden they were so nice to me and I’m like, “What happened?” Like, twelve hours, more than twelve hours, like, nobody bothered to even call an ambulance or anything else, and I said “Can you put me on the next flight?” They said, “We can't let you fly.” I had still yet to figure out who it was, why it was, and why I was not allowed to fly. Who were– why would all these people going to lose their jobs if they let me fly?
[00:17:05]
Anyway, so now I booked a ticket. All I did, they wanted me to go to a specific hotel, hotel room, hotel, and I said it's too expensive, I can’t afford it. So I– all I knew was my dad worked for a five-star hotel in my town, and they have another hotel of theirs in– in Delhi. So I just, I was like my dad has left the company, the hotel ten years ago. So I was like– like I will still go there. At least I feel safe that it's like I can use my dad's name if required. So I booked a ticket hotel room for there. I stayed there. They instructions were she needs to go to the hospital, with the– they gave– they told you what to do that when she comes in there and make sure she's there is an arrangement for her to go to the hotel. So– hospital. So I checked in, I went to the hotel, I kept my luggage there was another car waiting for me. This hotel– the hotel staff came to pick me up. They took me to the hospital. I was there for a couple of hours. They gave me some injections. I had a– I had some infection on my foot, but that was the only thing it, because I think I will– I went to in the Gan– when I was there for the first three weeks, I went to– to two religious places where the Yamuna and Ganga is and the water of the Ganga probably was not safe and clean, and it gave me some infection when I put my feet in the water. So I will show that was the only thing I had and there was no other, there was nothing else so they gave me medication for that. And my– everything else was normal. I still have to figure out– I have been fainting, I have been fainting since 2013, every time there are stress level goes up or something goes extreme, I have been fainting, but but they still don’t know– don't know what the reason of fainting is, but when they wouldn't, let me fly on the get on the flight, I didn't know– I just collapsed because thinking that I will not meet my children thinking that I will have problems with the court and, exactly, that's what happened. They took the custody, the joint custody, and they just gave it to him because he went and told around, saying that she's not– not coming back. So that stay in India of three weeks– I made two more attempts at the airport in India to come back to America. And both the times, three, all the times I was told that I cannot fly out of India. So I have still yet to figure out who it is, who blocked my passport. And by– but anyways, that's not– so I did my bit, I came to America, I took my dad with me. I made him buy my tickets and we came and the apartment was gone. He had emptied the– he had a court order saying the apartment has to be vacated, the alimony was paused or seized or put on hold or canceled. I don't know. And there was a child custody– a child support that I had to pay him on a weekly or monthly basis or something like that. So I'm like, okay, now I come here and I'm trying to tell him figure out what to do and I fainted when I came here, when it was my dad's time to go back, I fainted again. So my dad says, “Okay, okay, I'm not, don't get scared, I will extend my trip.” So he extended his trip another one because I believe and– and then he said, “I have a job to do. I have to leave.” So he went and I came back. I took an apartment, but I took an apartment in Manhattan on a studio apartment. What is it called? Service apartment for a month, to figure out if I could find a job in Manhattan. Stayed in Manhattan and didn't work out. And then I traveled to South Jersey where I stayed in a hotel room for almost maybe one and a half two months, I believe. And my credit cards were exhausted because I was, I was using it but I was not paying it on a monthly basis, so that's how I ended it with my car. And from one town to another I just kept trying to find a place that– will a grocery store specially or pharmacy that had a bigger parking lot and that would allow me to use a restroom. That was the only criteria I had. So what is it called? CVS, Walgreens, Whole Foods– nicest stuff– the Dunkin Donuts, 7-Elevens– I had mixed experiences people. Some of them would allow, the others wouldn't. It all depends on who was at the shift, and which employee was at the shift. Sometimes the employees were nicer, sometimes the owners were nice. Sometimes the owners didn't want to the employees to help me at all. So every– it was mixed, but overall people were amazing. There were people who open their homes for me and they are my best of the friends. Now, like I had, they had told me if you need, “You're a woman. If you need to use the restroom in the middle of the night, two o’clock in the midnight, wake me up.” I mean, they were the nicest people. They under the way with– there is a maturity and understanding of what– what a person goes through and what are their needs are. At winters– is not the best time for me. I'm like, I have always escaped from America and to be in India, in the– during the winter times, like, I'll find reasons to go to India, like, I cannot breathe. It's so cold for me. And I was here to winter, one winter to winter, three winters on the street with no jacket for the first– first– first year, right? First winter, I had no jacket. So, there were people bringing me sleeping bags or sweaters, jackets over it happened eventually, it didn't happen on the first day, so he, Mr. Michael, would offer me as many glasses of hot water as I wanted, as much tea I wanted, it's just sit and chat, warm up yourself, and be here partner in his house. And then he go, to go, he's going through his own troubles, I mean situation, he's a vet and so people have opened up their doors, people, the police, the around, the park rangers, NJ Transit employees, I mean, the, what's the– what are they called? The– the ones on the people who check the tickets on the train? You name them, everybody has played their roles in helping me. And if you want the details of the stories, it has to be another session.
[00:24:44]
I mean, the sheriffs, I'll tell you a story of a sheriff. I think, I probably told you or somebody because now so many everybody wants to know, I'm confused who, what I told everybody who– So I had a court date and I had no gas in the car and I said, “If I don't show up, up at the courthouse tomorrow, you are going to come looking for me anyway. It's because there will be an arrest warrant for no show. Anyways, so why don't you come pick me up today for the court date?” I called him. He said, “What do you think? This is something– this is– what is it that you exactly have want from us?” I said I have no money for the gas to come with a court date tomorrow. He said, “Okay, don't worry about it.” So he came to the Metuchen police station, the sheriff came to the Metuchen police station. He dropped twenty dollar cash for me. I filled up the gas and then went to the court. Because if you don't show up at the court on the court date, I didn't know it, only when I got an arrest warrant that I didn't show up for the court date, there was a– if you don't go there for the court date, then there is an arrest warrant. So I'm like, so what like, who exactly has the arrest warrant? The– it's always on the defendant. Like a, when I file a motion and if the– the plaintiff doesn't show up there– yeah, I didn't see that there was an arrest warrant for him, but he– everybody knew I am in– stuck in India and I couldn't fly back to India for whatever those reasons were, there was an arrest warrant waiting for me in America. Because I didn't show for a court date. So I said, “If I don't show up at the court date, because I don't have gas in my car, you guys are, anyways, coming looking for me so might as well come pick me– pick me up for the court date,” and they started laughing at me. So I'm like, okay. Before that, what happened in January or February of 2018? There was already a arrest warrant for me because of no-show at the court date, right? So, I, there was a Sun– Saturday supervised visitation in the court. And because I was in India everything at the start, but I sent him a message that I'm back and I want to start seeing the children. So I would come from Manhattan and to meet the children in Jersey, in Middlesex County, I mean, in New Brunswick. And the sheriff office is said, “Are you Ms. Gandhi?” I said, “Yes.” “There is an arrest warrant for you. What do you want me to do?” “Do I have a choice to tell you what you should be doing?” He said no. So he is like, “There are two options. I can arrest you now, and it's Friday or Saturday, so you will be in the county jail for the next two days until we produce you in front of the judge on Monday morning. If not, you promise that you come back, you give me the address where you live now, and you tell me that you will show up for the court date on Monday.” I said, what are my chances? Like what? I have no idea about it, just because you're telling me I'm knowing it now. So I said, my green card needs a stamp I have I need to pick up– what was it that I was looking for? Oh yeah, I had to, I had a green card appointment at the USCS office in Newark on Tuesday, I believe. And I said, I cannot come on Monday, I cannot come on Tuesday. If the– if the– if I don't know what I'm supposed to do and what is supposed to happen. If the judge puts me in the jail– in the jail, I will lose my USCIS appointment, and then my green card will be in trouble. So he said, “Wednesday morning, I want you here at 8:00 at the Sheriff's Office.” I said, “Okay.” And so he says, “I'm surprised they did not arrest you at the airport when you came back.” I said, I don't know what's happening. I didn't know there was something like this. So the only thing was I had been given a writing I want to believe before going to India that any court proceedings, if, I know they do it on the zoom. There is an online. So there was no email sent to me asking me to connect by email by online. And there was a court date. There was a decision, there was a court order without– in my absence, and there was an arrest warrant, everything taken care of, in my absence. And I'm like, there is an option that both the parties can be present for a court hearing by Zoom or online. They don't have to be present in person. Like, why was that option not given to me? I would have tried my best to be connected to Internet somewhere, wherever and be– appear for the court date. But I didn't want it to go into the arguments of why this and why not. But so, I coordinated with the sheriff's. And I came, I got my USCS work done for the green card on Tuesday, and then I showed up to the other sheriff's office on Wednesday. So he gave me a wake-up call, like, “Are you on the train already?” I said, “Yeah, I'm leaving now.” So I didn’t– I– I didn't know what to expect today. I was in the holdup cell for about, like, four to six hours, probably. And I was the last person going in front of the– the judge for that day. And I said I was in India, I had no idea all these things happen. This is my first court case in America, or on this planet. And I don't know what to expect of me and somebody has to explain me. Even if I have studied an English medium for school, like, legal language is something that you need– somebody needs to explain you. It's not an easy thing.
[00:30:55]
So– so the thing was there were two court cases– but that reminds me, maybe this is a good time to share. There were two court cases saying that the father has to initiate a call for the children to speak with their mother every day at seven o’clock p.m. There was another court order that says mother can call the children three times a day, and children can call the mother as many number of times. The– the court orders, both were held true at the same time that I mean, the first court order, the second court order did not cancel the first order. This both of them stood true. So I was expecting a phone call from the children every day, at seven from the father, which did not happen during the six months. After stay in India, and the first two or three weeks, probably four weeks, I would call the children speak to them. And later what he did was he started, he said he would hear the, they had– I stopped talking to the children for almost five weeks, five months after that, right, there was absolutely no contact, and they wouldn't call me, and they wouldn't answer my phone call or reply back to my voice messages, and he went to the courthouse saying that, “She is calling to her as me and she's calling multiple times.” So that was a breach of contract because I was not supposed to contact him. That was a breach of what is it called? The restraining order, right? So I'm like I did, I don't have no interest in talking to that man. There’s– there's no reason or intent of calling him. I'm trying to reach my children. There is a court order that says that I'm allowed to call them for three days, three times a day, for children, and they are supposed to call me once a day. None of it was happening. So he went away, he went, so now I'm like the call records shows, three seconds, zero, three seconds, zero, to one second, second call. There was no contact. It was just an attempt to call and there was no more than two phone calls a day on– on average. If you look, maybe I called four times on one day. Maybe I'll call one time on one day, but they're when they're nobody was responding and nobody was calling. I don't know what to do. So he went to the court saying that he's– she's calling and pestering me. And I said I'm trying to contact the children so he agreed in the courtroom in front of the judge and everybody that what he would do is he would shut off the ringer. So, the children don't hear the mother calling. So I'm trying to call and there's nobody responding. So I'm worried the– the children are not responding. What happened and he doesn't want the children to stay in contact with the mother. So he agreed that he's the one who was would shut to the ringer off. So, the children wouldn't listen to their mother calling. And when I came here, the children asked me, “Why did you abandon us?” Like so, he told the children, “Your mother abandoned you. She doesn't want you.” And he wouldn't let us speak to each other. So I said, “I didn't abandon you. Your dad was not letting me speak to you.” Right, so anyway, so the judge said, wrote the court order saying not, found not guilty and then the court everything was all cleared up. So the mix, add to the mix at the situation was I'm going to take the children away from you, right? That was the intent. I want to be the sole decision maker. How do you make decisions ask somebody else's wife or somebody else's mother? What to do? And he will tell you what to do, but the children's mother cannot make decisions for the children themselves. He wants to be in action. What he, the kind of person he is wants– and reasons to speak to some other woman. And if there is a woman at home taking decisions for their children, he did– he did– he didn't have enough reasons to speak to another woman. So he– the whole idea is to throw the– the mother out of the house. So he has reasons to speak to other women. It's a simple men’s psychology, so that's okay. So my– my children's life is messed up, my children's life seems to me is messed up. And my children are not raised to the way I wanted them to be raised. I don't want the world to blame– if something– if my children missed– misbehave ever in the future as adults, the world is responsible for it. So this is what happened. And so the sheriff officers were very kind and helpful and cooperative. I mean, they guided me to understand. The cops were helpful. The– actually, there was a cop in the Edison police who did like, “How would you end up homeless? Did he abuse you? Did he mistreat you?” He started asking me questions that I didn't want it to share with anybody. And then he got me to write a complain against him for the molestation and sexual abuse he was trying to do that. I had no plans of sharing with anybody ever. So there are good cops. There very intelligent cops, they will reason with everything. Like, you don't end up just like that on the street homeless. So there were, there were cops who said, I had, there are cops who said we don't want to lose our jobs. So, I had a mix of both experiences in India and in America. So people are– people have their strengths in the positions that they are, and people have their weaknesses in the positions that they are. So I'm not going to blame anybody that you were not fair to me. I mean, they were– they were true to me that they would lose their jobs and that was enough for me. So I didn't want to pester them and expect a lot from them. If they had helped me enough, everybody helped me enough in the position that everybody was in. The only situation I am still confused is, because we brought up this topic today, is the court order that said the mother can call the children three times a day has gone missing, has gone missing from the files of the court. The– somebody broke into my apartment, that piece of paper is a missing from my apartment. There is no audio transcript of the court hearing. I have the name, the date of the course, I have the date when the court date happened with the, the county says there was no arrest warrant, never happened. I don't know what does? So now I'm not allowed to call my children three times a day, because that entire piece of paper– that entire court hearing has been erased from the court files. So I don't know who it is and why I am being targeted. Like, who feels threatened by me if I speak to my children. I don't know. I mean, my husband isn't, I don't know. He comes from a family that was not so influential, that's not so rich. My family is not so influential in my life, my family is not so rich, coming from family background, looking at the rest of the world is influential. So I have no idea why people feel threatened. If a mother speaks to the children three times. Or if the mother has a custody of the child, what is it? Like, there are drug addict mothers who still have the custody of their children. There are parents who do weird things and they still have the custody of the children. What is it that– Why can't I have children? The court order says the contingency about mother being even having– being able to have access the– the children is just a psychological evaluation, which I did. It's five years now. Oh, now we want the children's evaluation. Oh, now we want the father's evaluation. Oh, we now want the evaluation for the mother and the children together. Oh, now we want the children, the evaluation for the father and the mother together. We want the evaluation for the children and the father together. So why did you not put it in writing on the first day in the court order? I don't want to spend the time, money, my life– I've already spent twenty years in a nasty life. It's okay, I don't care. I'm a woman, fertile woman. I can have more children.
[00:41:46]
I don't want to deal with that, man. The court is forcing me to deal with that man again everyday. I don't care. Really took away my children from me? I’ll not forget and I’ll not forgive. After losing five children, I still dare to take another chance. Not to see a dead baby or not to see a child taken away from me. When the father never wanted the children, when the– the family wanted my children to be dead, when my former mother-in-law, what didn't to inherit the– the ancestral property from me. Everybody bringing around to tell me that they don't want my children. They don't want me to see be a mother. Why would God want to not listen to me and not trust me, believe me, and not save me and my children? I mean, I mean, you just listen to one man's story and you don't want to keep even bother spending half an hour, ten minutes, twelve minutes, five minutes, listening to the other story. I mean, you don't take such decisions listening to only one side of the story. When my ex-husband wrote the, sent me the copy of the divorce of the first time, he made all kinds of allegations on me which were false. One hundred percent false. But neither have, neither the judge, neither my lawyer stood by me, trying to defend my story. They didn't even ask me what my side of the story was. What was I paying my lawyer three hundred and fifty or four hundred dollars an hour for to defend me? Useless lawyers. I mean I– I it's the Muslim way of the law is– is better. I mean get rid of the man or the woman without all the nonsense, right? Just see the law three times and it's all done. Why go through all this harassment? Lifelong harassment? And then what are people doing, scavengers? The lawyer wants to pay his rent and his wife's car. What else are they doing? They're doing nothing for us. I told my lawyer that I– this is my education background– I'm trying to find a job, if you have any references or if you know anybody, let me know, I'll take up the job. He comes back to me saying, “You have to listen to me, do this course of nursing and become a nurse in a hospital.” It's not my job. I can't do it. I can't see blood. I can see sick people. What are you asking of me to do an MBA? Find me a job. If you have any references, if you have any contacts, if anybody is looking for any HR or marketing or administration, let me know, I'll do the job. You can force me what to do, I'm– you're not you to do, tell me what to do. You don't care about my degrees, you don't about to care about my credentials. Like, are you and you don't seem to be a natural human being? Like, what are you trying to tell me? Take up a job of a nurse? It's been two years is to be studying nurse. Everything I told him, instead of defending me, he would go and tell my ex-husband. I'm like why would you go and tell him? So the three men together would team up against me. For the first three months–so we had an agreement, that whatever odd or days, odd– odd– odd year–what is it called? Festivals with mom, even with the dad, whatever it was– so 2014. In 2014, Thanksgiving was supposed to be with me. The children and I were supposed to be together. So I'm planning and we were supposed to do a certain thing. And these three men, my ex-husband, his lawyer and my lawyer planned something, decide and finalize everything without my consent, without my information. My ex-husband calls, texts me, “Keep the children ready, fifteen minutes, I'm coming them to pick up and we are going out for the– the have Thanksgiving dinner.” I said, “wWho are you to tell me? It's my time with the children, it is. So the children are supposed to be with me. This is Thanksgiving and we have the court orders. That's what we agreed on the court. I will have my lawyer speak to your lawyer.” And then he starts laughing at me on the phone, I’ll have it sent to you. I said, okay, so I call my lawyer and he says, no, I have approved it. I mean, who the bloody hell are you to approve? Why do you– why do you need the children them? What the hell are you? What do you mean by? Why do you need the children? Who are you to take my children away from me without my permission? And who are you to give the permission to take my children away from me? I'm not paying you for that. He has the audacity to tell me what– he's– you are a good catch, he started– the lawyer is telling me you are a good catch, an international case, we'll add it to my profile, I can be a judge. I mean, what do you mean? Who the hell is going to let you be a judge to harass women of international, domestic cases? I mean, just what we do, you did– what have you done for me? I'm not a guinea pig. We are not here for scavenger hunts. Me– you're not true to your job.
[00:49:04]
And I was harassed and pestered to not hire a lawyer. So there was a family member who decided to be the lawyer between both of us, right? And– and between those two men pestered me for the first couple of weeks trying to emotionally blackmail me, financially blackmail me, socially blackmail me. They went to the extreme of saying that if you decide to keep the custody of the children, we will isolate you and your children. So the plan was to isolate me anyways, but if you keep the custody of the children, your children will be isolated too. So this is the discussion happening at the family table. When a family member decides to become the lawyer between the both of us. I'm like, who are you? I don't know you. I know you just because of him like you don't exist in my life. My children don't need to be with you. So, this is first-generation rich, you know, just became rich. And I don't know how to behave in the society just because I have money. I can do anything with somebody else's life. That's not how real rich are. I mean, if you are at aristocrats, with real money, with like ten, twenty years older, generations of rich people, when they don't carry water getting involved in somebody else's personal matters, just because you had a money to this generation– first man earning money coming to America– you don't go around pestering. Somebody else's family, go look at what your father was doing when you were in India. You –just because you America gave you an opportunity, you don't go around harassing and pestering people. You're just first-generation rich. So they didn't like it. When I'd reminded him of his father's wealth. Anyway, I don't care but, what I mean is then his– for his friend, got involved, his college friend. They both studied at NJIT together for Masters. And I assume that he's a father of two daughters, and I thought he will bring– he will bring softness to the table, and he was real nasty, it went really bad. So, I'm like, then I went and reached out to– what is it called, arbitrators or what is it? The people something, like, that right, who do it outside the court, like, we sit down together and mutually do it. There is a term called something. I forgot what it is called. So there was a lady I reached out, and she had good credentials and she came with good references. So I said, I don't want to disclose you at all. You just tell me what needs to be done because he's not letting me hire a lawyer and you just guide me and I will speak to him how the way I'm supposed to be speaking because I have no idea what's happening here. These men are just harassing and pestering me. And surprisingly, their woman, back home, their wives are back home, are supporting them to harass me, right? I'm like, what feminism are you guys talking of then? So anyways, so– so I'm like, so I said, “You and I speak, I will not disclose you to anybody. I will ask you all the questions. You tell me what needs to be done, how it's needs to be done, as if you are my private lawyer.” And she wouldn't agree. She said, “I will do it only if both the parties are together on the table.” So I went around asking other lawyers, I mean, “Would you do it for me? He's not ready to hire– let me I'll pay you in cash because he wouldn't let– he would come to know if I had someone and I don't want to disclose you at all because he is not even letting me hired a lawyer.” When I had a lawyer, he turned tables, he turned tables and he went a, “We the men are together.” So my lawyer who I was paying started talking the talk, the language of “we, we the men,” that's it. What happened to the client and lawyer relationship? So, does that mean that all women should stop coming to men lawyers and only go to female lawyers?
[00:54:06]
[End of recording one]
[Beginning of recording two]
[00:00:00]
So I let go him. I fired him. And I said that I will represent myself to the time I find another lawyer. And I would call people, you know, asking for reference of a lawyer and people wouldn't want to even answer the phone call to give a reference. So I said, okay, let me find out. So I started Googling, and searching, and Facebook, and I went spoke to a couple of them and I've hired a female lawyer. And I was like– she was very helpful, she was supportive, but what I sensed in the entire process was, again, communication is the most important thing, you cannot take final decisions without letting your clients know. I mean, small things, but they are important. Like, she herself was, had gone through a divorce. The case of– my case was in front of Judge R and he was her judge too for her divorce. So she went and changed– requested for a change in the judge without informing me, without asking me, without letting me know. And on the– on the next month's court today to be one in front of another judge. I said, “What happened to that Judge?” “No, I had requested it to be changed.” I said, “I didn't ask you to do that.” “No, there was some conflict, personal conflict.” And I said, “Okay, so why would you not speak up to me or share with me that you have, you are going through this divorce and just give me a call but and tell me that we need to change the– the judge, right?” Because it affects me, it affects me in a lot of different ways. So from one court to another it goes, and it takes time for you to create a background or foundation every time there is somebody else new in front of you. So, and I was, like, going through a lot of stuff during that time, because when he would come and stop molesting me, I would start getting jittery and start getting anxiety attacks. And I was, like, completely lost and– what is it called? It's the whole idea for him, he said, why he wanted the children was the tax benefit. I said we can just write it up saying that the– you would be claiming the tax benefits the children don't need to be staying with. You don't need to be the primary parent of primary residence to do to– to claim the tax benefit for the children. If you are the only earning parent, I'm still not an earning parent. So what he did was are when he filed the divorce, he said that I was irresponsible, I was incapable mother, I was not taking care of, I was in depression all my life after marriage, and I was not taking care of good care of the household, I was not taking care of the two, of the children, and he was the one who was doing everything I said. Are you sure if I prove it wrong? Is it six days a week you were traveling outside, you had a traveling job. You're either in Detroit, you were either in London, you were either in China, you will either in Atlanta, because your clients were there, and you don't want it me to travel with you everywhere. So you bought a house in Edison because it's a school, good school district, because I was pregnant when we bought the house, and you were traveling, you came only, you came home only for the laundry. I said, when did you do what for the children? So he wanted to prove– so what happened during the– during the divorce, he– he walked in one day at home and I was in bed. I had– for the last maybe seven, eight years, I have severe menstrual cramps and severe menstrual blood flow. Like, I'm changing six to eight sometimes ten, ten pads a day– normal is like three to five probably, and if six to ten is the– I'm, like, looking at the amount of blood my body is– my body is giving up during my those four days, I faint and blackout just looking at the blood. I'm, like, jittery and shivering looking at just sitting on the pot ten minutes, fifteen minutes, and it won't stop flowing. It's such a bad fact of my life right now. I'm going through, so I was going through the same thing to even during then, so probably– probably what happened was I was– I dropped the children to the school. I came back, or I called him and I said, “I cannot go and you drop the children to the school.” So one of the two things happen, because I don't clearly remember because I was completely knocked off with the amount of blood that of my body has been giving up during those four days. So, it probably with must have been the first of the second day, which, when it's more, more, as compared to the next two days. So, they would– probably I had a leak and there was bed sheets with blood, and my underwear with blood in the bathroom that was not washed, but I was completely knocked out and I was in the bed. So, he took pictures of those saying I am keeping the children in unhygienic conditions. And only for one instance, it's not that I was doing it again the children at home, they were in the school and I couldn't get up and stand on my feet to clean that stuff. So I probably would have done it later during the day, but he came home taking pictures and saying that she leaves the house– and that was the only two things and underwear and a bed sheet with blood stains, there was nothing else. And the– the entire house was sparkling clean, okay? Their house was completely well- organized, everything was clean. It was just that I probably had a heavy bleeding over the night and I probably had a leak. So that was the only thing that happened. So he took pictures only of those two things, trying to prove that I keep children in unhygienic conditions. I would rather have asked of have him, say, “Do you need some breakfast? Can I get you some breakfast? You know, are you feeble? Do you need some food? That would have been ordered to you? You want me to get you a glass of water from the kitchen? Can you, can you make it to the kitchen?” That would have been more human than taking pictures of just one thing and trying to prove to the court saying that, “Oh she's keeping the children unhygienic conditions.” Or, “Do you want– do you have extra pads? Do you want me to get some pads for you? Do you want me to call a female friend?” I mean, there could be something, a lot of human things that he could have done. “Do you want me to take an appointment for the doctor? Do you want to go to the ER?” I mean there are things as human, as a father of children that we raised together, could have done differently than taking pictures, trying to prove that the mother is keeping the children unhygienic conditions. It was not true, right? So, but anyways, so I did, I would really– at one point you give up because you don't want to fight the dark, right? Let the darkness win. Because tomorrow, there will be sun again. So I let it go, there was no point fighting. So at one point, things became so bad and nasty that my lawyer called me and told me that, “I'm– I have told the boys I have talked– let me quote– I have told the boys not to harass you to such an extent.” I said, okay, let them be done. The funniest thing was the lawyer who was telling all these things to my husband to do with, normally he would dare not do it. Otherwise was telling that under legal, “I can support you. I'm the country's best lawyer, number one lawyer. I can protect. I have such a political connections, I can protect you from this, I can protect you from that. You can have her killed. You don't have to give– give her any money you can– can have done anything with her. As far as you don't get her pregnant.” These are all the legal advisers. The lawyer that has been giving– his wife delivered a daughter right, during the same time. That's it. Karma doesn't go away. It comes back, hits you back?
[00:10:03]
So, um, so I'm like, okay, so I am like at one point. I couldn't think for myself with the molestation, of the amount of molestation he was doing, it creates confusion in your mind, and it has trust issues. Like, you don't trust people around you. It's– it– it is the effect of what people do to you. So I'm– I had to get hospitalized for the UBHC for ten days to figure out. But even there I did not trust the doctors and I didn't tell them what was happening because I said, “I'm not trusting you guys.” So I came out of the hospital ten days,and I gave the custody, you keep the custody. I'm not going to fight if this is all you're doing, because you want the custody of the children, take it. Why children? You raise them, your expenses. I'll be happy. If somebody takes away all my response financial responsibilities, right? Would you not have been happy if somebody takes it all financial responsibilities? I'll take it. You want to take the responsibilities? He had nothing to fight against, he got more angry because there was nothing to fight for. I just gave it to him easily. I didn't know. It was so easy to get just– I said you want to raise them, I'm going to question you. How did you raise them? What did you teach them? What do they know? And I'm going to tell you, “I would have raised him like this, see? You failed.” Because there's no point in fighting the darkness. You want to win? Go ahead, win, be happy. Now, I'm stuck with the children and you're, you are, you are on vacation all the time. I, yes, I am on vacation all year long. You take care of it. I did it for so long. You were– you were on vacation, work vacation six days a week. Now you do it, now I will rest. My lawyer in India was better, she would tell me what to do. Let them go, his children, don't fight, don't say “my children,” your children, give it away.
[00:12:52]
I was clueless for three months, I wouldn't wake up from the bed because there was nothing to do. There was no motivation because I, there are always– you did something for somebody else, you cooked for somebody else, you clean for somebody else. So you woke up without somebody else because you were there– was when the children were gone. I had– there was no purpose of waking up. It's not that I didn't want to die, but I was like there was no motivation that, “Oh my child is going to be hungry, I have to make the breakfast if I don't eat a breakfast.” I'm like, it's okay. I'm– I'm going without a breakfast for three months. Nothing happened to me. I didn't die. But if my child is hungry, I have to wake up before he wakes up so that the breakfast is ready. I have to clean the house before my husband comes back from home so that house is sparkling clean. He comes to a pleasant– a pleasant atmosphere: nothing of that. There was no motivation for me to do it for myself. So I had to learn it to do for myself first, and he didn't like it when I– When I did the apartment after the divorce, when he was so angry and upset, “How can your apartment be so neat, and tidy and clean.” And he had to break it. He had to vacate, I couldn’t pay it anymore. I couldn't pay the rent. The apartment was moved on, it's not pretty anymore, because there's no apartment. So jealousy can make people do things against their own. So you're jealous, deal with it, I don't want to deal with your jealousy. I don't want to tell my children that your father was a bad father. Let them figure out how bad of a person they were. He wants to tell– take my children to– to unknown women, but he has a problem with me? Let the children figure out. My daughter and my son asked, “How come dad is 45 years old, he needs his fathers and mothers six months a year. They are now down– Grandpa and Grandma comes every year because Dad misses his mom, and how come mom, dad doesn't let us speak to our mom, even five. It's during the day. Like, what kind of a dad is this?” I said you figure your dad. You chose your dad. He doesn't let us speak to him. My– my mom– my son is saying that he is busy talking to his mom on the phone, like, he disconnected the landline and he doesn't let my mom call and speak to us. The– he's on the phone with his mom. You figured out before I tell you that your body had was a bad dad. You figure it out. Let your brains learn. We can– I don't want to do the bad part anymore. I'm done. Because I don't– never wanted to tell anybody what was happening behind those doors, because if you define it, and if you put words in the mouth of the children, they are going to learn what you teach them. They are brains figured it out. I didn't tell them anything ever that your dad did this to me? Or did he beat you up when you was a child. Because when sometimes childhood memories, you don't have them all the time. But my children reason now, “How can dad speak to his mother, wants to spend time with his mother, wants to eat the food that his mother cooks, but where is the food that my mother cooks? Where is the time with my mom?” Like, my children have started asking, and that's the best thing, that's the best way. Instead of me telling them that your dad is a bad, your grandmother is bad, let them figure it out. Because my mom did that, “Your dad is like this, your grandfather is like this.” And she wouldn't let us speak. I didn't– I was living in under the same roof with my grandfather, but I didn't speak to him for the last ten years of his life because I was so brainwashed as to what kind of a bad person he was. I said, it's okay, I don't– let– let them learn to swim on their own. I don't want to take them away from the water. Even today, my mother doesn't want me talking to my dad. I said, “You know what? I'm going to talk to both of you. You have a phone, you have a phone. Now earlier I had to call only on one phone. Now you are in one room. I'm going to talk to him and you are on the other room. I'm going to talk to you.” Because, Bollywood shows fantasy, just a feel-good factor. You watch it, feel good, be happy, for three hours, go home, at home – at home it’s not Bollywood. It's– nobody shows what it is. It's a completely different.
[00:18:34]
So when my ex-husband got an accident in 2007, my in-laws were with us on the day of the accident in Manhattan. We came out of Toys “R” Us on 42nd Street and there where– we were waiting at the sidewalk,and we were wanting to cross this 42nd Street. Go on the other side, I mean the Broadway, go back to Port Authority, I believe, from Toys “R” Us, and we were at the sidewalk right outside. And there was a– there was an European tourist on my right. Did I told this? I haven't yet. There was a European tourist on my right, my mother-in-law on the left, her husband, my father-in-law, on her left, and my husband beyond. So, my in-laws between both of us, and there was a drunk driver, seven PM, happy hour, car going home on Friday evening. Oh, and that lady, a black lady– I believe, I don't know, I haven't seen her, so let's cancel the black word or the– but I know it was a lady. So whoever that lady was, she said it was after Friday evening after work, happy hours, something around seven pm. She started driving on the sidewalk right outside the Toys “R” Us. So this European tourist from nowhere? He pulls me back. “Watch out,” he said. And my instinct, I pulled my mother-in-law and my father-in-law, and my father-in-law, didn't, I couldn't reach up to my husband, you know, like, he didn't pull my husband back. So, the four of us were out of harm, and that lady came and hit my husband seven, eight, probably ten feet high up in the sky and– boom– back down. The best part was it was a Friday evening, which means he would bring his gym clothes back home for laundry. So he had a backpack that had a laptop and he had in his backpack, there was a cushion of his gym suits, right? So that gave him a cushion. Even on the back. So he did not hurt himself that bad. He had a brain concussion, he broke his thumb bone, bone of the thumb. I think what they believed it was the right to thumb, and he was completely knocked out. I revived, tried to revive him, and made him count the numbers. There were horses, there were cops on horses and bikes and cars trying to catch that woman, because she tried to run ,and three or four blocks down the road, probably they stopped her. And she was under the influence, and she said she was coming out from a bar from happy hours, so they took him to the hospital. And he was working, both of us were working downtown, and his father and mom were visiting us, and we were trying every Friday evening. What we would do is we would ask them to come to a certain place from Secaucus, and we would meet them, and then we would show them around after office. So that was our routine on Fridays that we did for a long time. And then this accident happened, right? So, people like, I had no idea what to do, and I was assuming that the family are now, I have my in-laws at home, I would– they would be of help, right? Saturday evening they said, “We have to go to our friend's house. We don't want to stay here.” I said– and he was home for almost three to four weeks, I believe after the accident– and I said, “I've– both of us are going to be home, it's not possible. I mean, I can do nonpaid job, I mean. I cannot take a day, or I can stay home for a couple of days, but I cannot leave him unattended. So, but now you guys are here. What's the problem? Why can't you stay?” So the story goes, she tells me that, “It's your husband. I'm not going to babysit him.” He says, “I miss my mom and my mom is not willing to even sit by me for at least half an hour.” It is, we are all in one apartment, two-bedroom apartment, and he is seeking attention from the mom after the accident and she wouldn't even look at him. She tells me, “Your husband, you take care of him.” She and her husband go and packed their bags and leave and stay with their friend, to the friend. They tell, “He got in an accident, [Redacted]doesn't want us around because it is her husband. She wants to do it her way.” And I called my mom and I said, “I need help. Do you think you guys can come?” And she says, “It is her son? She's there. Why do you want me to come?” I said, “But I am your daughter and I need help with my husband. I have to go work. Why can't you just come and just be home? He needs– we need somebody to be with him while he's home. When he heard the doctor, says he's perfectly fine. That's fine. Just come for the day. You don't have to do anything. There is a person who cooks, we just go and pick up the food from them because both of us are working. You don't have to cook, cook, cook at all. The food will be ready. Just warm it up and eat. There is no cleaning the dishes, I will do it myself. When I come home, I clean the house myself because I don't want anybody else cleaning my house and because I do it and I don't want the guests, even if you are part of a family, I don't want the guests to clean, clean up after yourself with the weekly cleaning. I do with myself, I don't want the guests to do it. Laundry is done once a week. If there is, no you don't have to scrub and brush the clothes and do it the Indian style has do you do it, we have a washer dryer. It comes all washed and right. All you have to do is fold and I don't like people touching my clothes. Oh, so you're not folding my clothes. You will be just folding your clothes. So, you just need to be here is all. We need is a companion. Just somebody to sit home with him.” “It is his, her son, so it is so everything is it is your man. It is her man.” So nobody was ready to take a– take up the responsibility. I mean, we’re just asking you for companionship, nothing else. You don't have to take any responsibilities. You don't have to do any course. You don't have to pay any bills. You don't have to do anything. You just apply for the Visa. We are going to buy you the tickets. You just sit in the plane, come and just, just to be there or, you know, know. So she was she right away for three years. I– my mother wouldn't come or his mother went away for three weeks wouldn't come. And I'm like, I can stay home, I can work from home but I need I'm– I'm not even completed twelve months at work. I have limitations. I– after the accident, I got my confirmation, because there was– what is it, does it called? I forgot– the six months trial, what is it called? I mean, probation, right? So I got my confirmation later after the accident. So I was still on probation. I couldn't even take a holiday or vacation, or I couldn't do anything because in February, or January, I had already taken a vacation because that was like, that was my requirement. I said, I will take the offer. I will leave Citibank and join JPMorgan. Only if now, or I can wait until I come back, you know, I can because it was my brother-in-law's wedding, my husband's younger brother was getting married. I said I can wait until after wedding so that I can still be an employee with City and then I can do my vacation to the wedding, come back and then join JP. They wanted me now, “So no we don't want to wait until February till you come back. We want you now.” I said, “Then you have to approve me for three– two or three or four weeks of vacation. Because I have to go, because it's already finalized. We already took the wedding dates based on when we could come.” Now, it cannot be changed. So they allowed me to take the vacation for the wedding beforehand in the first, in the first sixty days. So I can put in– there was nothing left for me for the rest of the year. So I was like, so I'm like, I'll stay home. I'll work from home for some days, but not every day because I cannot, because we were in the middle of– for Bank of New York merger. And I was part of the team working together to get it, and, and certain things cannot be done at home. So I was like, I won't be able to stay home. So I was like– so he was angry that he had to be by himself and there was nobody around him to be her. I said, “Your mom walked out, she saw the accident happening in front of her eyes. All she had to do was stay home. You can't be upset with everybody else. I don't know what's between you and your mom. That you have to figure out, but if you had such a problem between your mom and mom and you–" I mean, he has told me, I don't want to bring up what his relationship with the mom, it's his story, but– but I didn't know she would want– because they had such a great problem that she would walk out. Even after this, I mean there has to be some motherly emotions, seeing your child go through such a thing right in front of your eyes. And she– she was emotionless as she just walked out within twenty-four hours, she just left. I said, “You should have told me that it was so nasty between you and your mom, right?” But then, who was to blame but the daughter-in-law because if you have to put the blame on somebody else.
[00:30:01]
So this happened 2019, there was another accident– 2009, there was another accident, not ‘19. He was sitting in a friend's car, a friend's car, because they did ride shares. So one week he would drive, at the other week the other friend would, rather colleague, would drive. And we lived, like, not more than ten minutes or five minutes walking from each other, in that it's not the other side, and then his friend was driving. He was sitting in the passenger seat. So it's Route 78 coming home after work, and he's on a conference call– the driver, I mean, the friend is on a conference call, work call– and I'm like, I knew something went wrong, right? Sitting at home, and I'm calling him and I'm saying, I'm telling him that I'm going to JFK hospital to meet a friend for tea. She's a doctor there, so she had a break, she said, “I'm going to– going for a tea break. Why don't you come with me?” We haven't met for a long time, so she had an hour or hour and a half, whatever time, so I said okay I'll join you. And I said, so I was calling him that, “Ask your friend to drop you there. We will meet the friend for tea and then we'll come back together. So don't go to the home, because the home is like not more than twelve minutes from JFK. So instead of having you dropped at home, just come to the hospital.” And so I was trying to reach him, and inside me, I was, like, thinking something bad is happening. And– and I had just come back from India in March and had a nasty experience with his mom in India. So him and I were not talking about the incident and he was pestering me to tell me what happened. I said, “It was a bad experience, your mom was really nasty and I don't want to talk about it.” So I was completely shut and it affected our relationship. And so, so I was like– came back, and then we had arguments. I said, “Why did you force me to go back to stay– instead of staying with my parents, why did you force me to stay with your parents? If you knew that you had strained relationships, like we had experience in 2007, and then you want me to go back in 2009 and stay with your parents. You, you had strained relationships with your parents already. And now, you put me and the four-month baby or that six-month baby in a situation that your mom just kicked us out in the middle of the street, you know?” I mean, my grandfather had to come, pick us up and take us to him– to my dad's house because my dad, grandfather was the middleman who got this marriage alliance right? So my, my grandfather had to say sorry to his family for whatever might have happened, he didn't want it to know. He had to say sorry to my dad, for whatever that might have happened, he didn't know, want to know. And he went saying sorry for both the side saying, “You can't leave an infant and a mother on a street knocking, for whatever reasons happens, right?” So, the whole– so we can also– he met an accident 2009 again, when I came back from India and I was fuming with anger with the experience I had with his mom and the way she treated me and my son. And– and then this accident happened. So his mom called– his sister calls me and says, “Forgive my mom, whatever might have happened, please take good care of my brother.” I said, “Yeah, I don't want to be a widow, right? So I'm going to show– going to make sure that I'm going to take care of your brother. He's not just not your brother, he's my husband as well. When I had an experience with your mom, in the 2007, in 2007 accident– so there's more. There's– there's zero expectations from your family.”
[00:34:35]
So even then I said, “You know what, you have a Visa, why don't you come and stay?” Because this was a serious concussion and I couldn't take care of him. I was a breastfeeding mom with both my hand compromised with the carpel tunnel. So I couldn’t even pick up my child to burp or to feed him. So I would keep the child in the bed in the sleeping position. I would feed him and I would try to board up him with the broken hands, I mean, with the painful wrists. So cooking and cleaning was gone for a couple of months. I would have an Indian auntie come home, she would cook for us, and then she would call, because I couldn't– couldn't move my hands. And I mean, I delivered a nine-pound baby, okay, who was twenty-one inches? I mean, and I was only one hundred and twenty pounds. So I didn't know how he made it in there. I mean, I was like one hundred and twenty pounds, me, and he was nine pounds, twenty-one inches. And I'm like, I don't know what was happening in my tummy. But anyways, so picking him up and– and I was feeding him six to eight times a day. He was a big baby for me and he had milk allergy, so there was no outside milk going to him. And I was in America, I was trying to find out what I can give him so I found two things. One was something that only Wegmans sold. There was nobody else is selling anything like that, so I would pick up ten, twenty cans at a time in just the fear that it might go– it might go off shelves anytime, so I was glad that it was there till he turned three. So I don't have to worry and was– so as some kind of a soya instant formula but, there was no advertisement. There was no known brand, but it was an amazing. I drank it myself before I give it to the child. And then I decided to give it to him at probably seven or eight months as an addition, because, and then I started giving him other foods. So, anyway, so he was growing fast, and he was growing big. As compared to that, he is not as big now, but he– he is– so I called his mom again and I said, “So you're met with an accident. I need your help. Do you think you can come and stay and take care of, just be around, you know? Like it, there's nothing that you need to do, it’s just that we needed some family member or some– some senior person at home to watch.” What he didn't do was did not apply for– what is it called? Disability? “It will go on my records, you know. There will be a proof.” Like what? What are you trying to hide from? It's known that you met with an accident. So he was thinking already something nasty then. So he didn't go for it, disability. His mom said that, “We are not coming.” I called her the second time. She says, “Hello, hello, I cannot hear you. There is a problem with the line.” And then she never picked up my phone again. So, and the next thing I know is he comes barging at me saying, “How dare you tell my mom that we don't want to keep any ties with you?” So now she stopped calling, answering my phone call, and she calls him telling that she doesn't want us to keep in a relationship with you. So, now, okay. I said, okay, fine. So I said, now, I don't want you to keep any relationships of the you stop calling your mom. Enough is enough, I said. Which he took it in a way that, “Oh, she wants me to break my ties with my mom.” I said, “Where are the ties? I didn't see it. If your mom is lying, I'm just– just telling you stop talking to your mom. Don't come argue with me.” So, so I'm taking care of the baby, I'm taking care of my hands, I'm taking care of my back, because I had an epidural and see where backache and carrying that twenty-one inches baby broke my back, and delivering it normally broke me down completely. So I had a, was going through physical therapy, he was going through the concussion. My baby was allergic to so many foods that I had, I couldn't even boil milk in the microwave, or in the, on the gas if he was in– in the room. I had to lock him, or close the doors in the bedroom and then clean up the air, open the doors, open the windows, warm up, put on the vent and then I had to bring the baby out, I couldn't bring it otherwise, I mean he would be swollen if I just wiped some eggs in the house. I'm figuring out motherhood, right, because my first two years I'm like there was nobody around to tell me what to do on how it is done. So, I was figuring out myself. I would call– it's done differently in America, why want– what we do in India, So, there was no, no bit of guidance whatsoever coming from, from my mother, nor his mother, right? So I'm, like, reading newspapers or reading articles online, trying to speak to others here and figure out what, what can be done. So I– and if, oh, and the only thing both the mothers, my mom and his mom would do is, “Oh, why did you do it like this? That's wrong.” Okay, so what's the correct way to do it? “Hello, hello? We cannot hear you.” So then you are – there is no communication coming, you know? So I'm like, what is it that people are against me, not wanting to help me. So I don't know, right? So I was like, what is it and why is it happening like that? So, and then there are people going on around telling, “Don't call her, don't talk to her, don't help her.” So, I'm like, “Okay, don't help me.” And the problem arrived when they saw I figured it out myself, and I was happy. That was the most disastrous times when they learned I was– I figured it out, and there were people and forces wanting to break me down and prove me wrong, and attempts done to break me and my family down. How can you be happy? Your wedding was done against your wish. How did you both figure it out? A lot of people were not happy with it. How can you be happy if it was done against your wish? And stalking, we figured it out between both of us, I mean if we don't have to be the love-doves, but we figure it out. Living together was not that difficult. We figured it out. That's when the force is toward right to break things up because they figured it out. They learnt it, and they're happy and they're satisfied with whatever they have. That's when all the forces came together to break it. And I didn't try to protect it. I said, well, you helped me do it the easy thing. I said if I wanted to get out of the wedding because it was forced on me. I'm no– I'm sure all the forces would force me to stay in the wedding, but you did– you help me do it the easy way. I– I would have loved to get out of the wedding because it was against my wish. I didn't have to do much, everybody else around me to do the work for me. Was I happy in the wedding? No. Did I wanted to break the wedding? Probably no, either. Because we figured it out. We settled and we accepted that it was a forced marriage on both the sides for him and for me. It was not a love marriage and it was not a Bollywood-influenced marriage. It was– it was forced for him, it was forced for me, and then we figured out. Okay, let's stay together, no big deal. That was not acceptable. How can you be happy if it was forced onto you? So all the people who forced it onto us, whether it was my mom or his mom, whether it was somebody else or somebody else, they were the ones who were the most unhappiest people. I can see unhappiness on them now, now that– now that it is broken. And I'm not just going to blame his mom, it's my mom too. So they were happy to force us together, and now they're happy to force us to separate. They found their ways of happiness. I'm happy. I'm happy for them. What else can we say? Life happens, right?
[00:44:12]
So, they were very, very few people who are happy to see me and my ex happy that we figured it out. It was forced onto us, but we figured it out. Very, very few people, I mean, maybe just one or two people that I came across who said, okay, you figured it out. Everybody else no. There was just too much of jealousy around, and it was harmful to– it's very very harmful. The only person probably who was not jealous, but was proud was his father. Even my father at one point was jealous, jealous that she moved on, she doesn't need me, she's independent. He– probably jealous is wrong word, but insecurity of my dad, the relationship with my dad that I have built– that there is another man is her husband, there is another man that is her son and now I'm less important, I get less attention, she needs me less. As a father of a daughter, for the kind of relationship I have with my dad, he went through his cycle of emotions. I would have loved to see my dad happy that I have a son, but he probably was happy that he had a grandchild but he was not happy that he had to share me with this– with another man. And the dealing with my dad, you won't believe that was a bigger thing. Even today, “You– why you need your children,” he would say. I'm in that, I mean, he's happy to chat with me all day long. He wants me all for himself. He has absolutely no regrets that I'm divorced and then separated from the children. He's happy that I'm chatting with him twenty-four hours a day. So, certain forces– when my son first figured out that mom also has a mom, you should have seen his face like, “No, she's all mine, right? Five minutes ago, she was all mine. Who is this old lady?” Right. because he hadn't seen the grandmother, and when she came and stayed with us and I– like, he would sit on my lap, I went and put my head on my mom's lap, and he was like, he was– have you seen the videos of children who we feed lemon for the first time? Like sour? Right? That's the kind of astonished the sour face my son had it. He was probably two and a half, three years old, right, three and a half, and he was like, “You also have a mom?” I said, “Everybody has some mom.” So he was like, “No, but you are mine.” I know. He wouldn't let me sit next to my mom. So there was a lot of happy things happening. A lot of things happening. But when [Redacted] was delivered, [Redacted] wouldn't want to share, because she is my sister. “I went to the God and ask for the sister because all my friends have baby brothers and sisters. I'm the only one without one. God listen to my prayers.” So he– he wouldn't let anybody– we were ready to divorce, even before she was being born here. I believe in the power of prayer that our divorce got extended only because he wanted his sister. Our relationship was long broken and I mean there was no sharing the bed. I don't know how this happened. She came and then we split again. So– so if you read, have you read the birth of Krishna how it has happened? I said, this is all malarky. Malarky is melodrama. Like they wanted to be born this way, you know, you make a scene, create a stage for your work. I blame it on both of them. I said you own, you wanted to be born like this. You wanted all the melodrama in your life, I mean you don't want to give it to ya- to the Darkness, you just say, “Yep, this is all pretty, everything is beautiful.”
[Editor’s Note: The narrator references the story of The Birth of Krishna. Lord Krishna is worshiped as a supreme God in Hinduism and was born to queen Devaki to kill an evil king called Kans.]
Nobody's life is perfect and nobody's life has– has the most pleasant experience as everybody goes through all kinds of experiences and this was ours. I don't want to point fingers but these are all human emotions that take over and some people want to overpower. My father still doesn't want to give up. He is happy I don't, or he is still happy to send me money, whatever little money he saves from his pension, he feels empowered to send it to me to take care of my expenses. If I say that I'm looking for a job, he's not happy because his words or his importance, or his need will be gone. If I say, “I'm– I'm going to start a job.” “I'm sending you the money. How much do you need?” Is the next question before anything else– congratulations, best of luck– nothing. “Do you need any references?” Nothing. I'm sending you the money. So for him, it's all human relationships wants and needs. Everybody wants to be important in somebody else's life. This is it.
[00:50:51]
So this is how I ended up from the street to Amandla’s, and then everything else happened. But this is not the first time I was homeless. I would– I had a huge argument when [Redacted] was praying, I was pregnant with [Redacted], and it went to an extent of physical abuse between both of us. He hit me and I was not allowed to keep quiet. I had hit back because he hit me, and go to my son's pregnancy as well. I mean if he is– is a stressed out and frustrated he would come and hit. And I'm not used to it. My father wouldn't do that. I haven't seen my mom parents, they would sit and argue. And in their argument, there would be Clinton and JFK and there would be the vegetable vendor and the carpenter and everybody, everybody is responsible, right? So because they are fighting, somebody else has to be responsible. So I have heard the arguments, my parents would be having growing up. And then– the president would be responsible, and the gardener would be responsible, and the truck driver will be– everybody else is responsible, but they both are not responsible for what happened, right? So, so I had seen all that but I have not seen my dad hit my mom. Never. And she had the right and the freedom to put her argument forward. I mean, if he says something she would say something and then, he would say something, and she was even now, but we had to get an okay. We need to sleep, it's past ten o’clock, shut the lights and shut your mouths, we would say if they ever got into the arguments, right. But they would never hit each other. This was different. And he had seen his father hit his mom, and he had seen that mom doesn't hit back, and he had seen that he, his mom gets a scared when his father hits the mother and everybody in the family supposed to get scared if the father then hits the mother.
So everybody's like, we have to live a life and behave in a manner that father is not, doesn't lose his temper and he doesn't hit the mother. So the whole family’s value, or the purpose of being together, is to protect the mother from the father. And we live a life and spend the day in a manner that father doesn't come home and hit the mother, right? To an extent, lie, hide, don't share, everything, right? So he thought I would get scared. He slapped me once, I slapped him three times. I said you want more? And you are the worst wife in the world, women are not supposed to do this, women are supposed to take the heat. He would say, came to saying me, and I'm like, this was the second time when he had hit me. He probably hit me only three times, right? So the first time, I was angry, upset, and I did not react apart from being angry and upset. The second time I had, I said, “You are to send me an email right now and seeking an apology in writing accepting that you hit me and you're sorry about it,” which he did. The third time he hit me, I hit him back. Because I said enough. “I'm pregnant. It's twelve-thirty midnight. You did not take the keys to the house, I fell asleep. You have gone out for three weeks, today is your first day back. You left with your mom, was supposed to go only for ten minutes, you came back after three and a half hours, I fed the child. I took care of the child, my son, I'm pregnant. Your mother has come to take care of me during the pregnancy. You gone missing for three and a half, four hours, twelve thirty at midnight. I forgot to leave the door open for you. You did not take the keys with you, and you come home saying, listening to your mom, ‘Women do this on purpose and lock their husbands and mother-in-law's out of the house.’” I said, “It's twelve-thirty, I slept, I did not hear you knock.” “You did not open the door on purpose because you are angry with my mom.” I said nothing happened between me and her that I'm supposed to keep her out of the house until twelve o'clock at midnight. Like, why were you not home at ten o’clock? You left at eight-thirty, you should have been back home at by ten, if not at ten-fifteen. What were you doing until twelve-thirty at midnight? Like, why did you not call and say, “Oh we're going to be late. Keep the door open or keep the– keep the car, house keys in the planter where we normally keep–” like we hide it in the planter so that just in case, you know, is there a, “Where's the key in the planter there was a key in the planter.” “Why did you not pick up the key from the planter? Why did you come from the belief your mother has that she has kept you and me out on purpose, and she's purposely not waking up and not opening the door?” I had my midwife– I had my midwife's appointment, I drove to white lights– what is it called? A white sticker, Whitehouse Station, that's the name of the town, by myself. “You did not drive me. I came back home, I took care of the house, I took care of the child, you gone missing four and a half hours with your mom. Do you have no decency to call and say I will be late, warm up the food or keep the food in the fridge, I'm not coming home for dinner. No communication from you at all, you come to past twelve-thirty and you start beating your wife because she did not open the door for you. I was completely dead asleep. There is a hidden key in the planter, you did not take that. There is a key that you're supposed to keep along with your car keys, you don't have that. You make up a scene that your wife is not opening the door on purpose. You come from the window from the bedroom, sneak into the bedroom, and then you start beating up your pregnant wife and I'm not going to take your nonsense. Why did you not call the cell phone? My cell phone did not ring. If you would have called my cell phone, I would have answered the phone. You, why did you not ring up the phone? What happened intentionally? I just fell asleep. I took the child to the daycare in the morning. I took care of the– my– my doctor's appointments during the day as it was your first day back from three weeks of China visit. I kept everything ready for you. Your mom has gone missing, you went to pick her up ten minutes away from the house. Nine and a half hours that woman is not home, so I am doing everything by myself. So what happened between your mom and me? Nothing happened. She left early morning. She's not home during the whole day. She has of no use, and no emotional and social support at all. And now, she is telling you–” So he comes from the window, he opens the door for his mom, they both come back into the bedroom, and she's telling him, “Beat her up. I give you the permission. Women do this on purpose.” So I'm saying, “Did you do it to your mother-in-law. How do you know what is sour?” So I'm like beat her up. So he– he hits me, mom and I, he hits me. I hit him back. One, two, three, and I asked him. Do you want more? I'm not done yet. I told them, “I want you and your mom's bags packed up out of the house now. I've paid a hundred and twenty thousand dollars for his house. I don't care about you. I'll figure out the monthly amount. I– I want you and your mom out.” I said, “Why did you not call me on my cell phone to wake me up. Why did you do all the stunts to come from the– the window? If I was asleep, just call me on the cell phone, which you did not. And you're making up a scene and physically beating up pregnant wife saying that I did not open the door on purpose. Where is your keys? There is a key in the planter that you know we keep hiding, its hidden there. Always is there for emergencies. Why did you not use it?” That was that was– I thought that with the baby, new baby coming, life will be easy, and probably will patch up things, see where it went. I said, “No, so I'm delivering the child and we are splitting, that's it.” So because of that, he, I said, “I don't feel your mother is safe. I don't know what she would do with the gas. And I don't want her cooking for me because I don't know what she would do with my food now, because you have already expressed you don't want a second child. And you now know that it's a female child, and I see all the behavior patterns of not wanting a female child. What India, Indians do in India, right?” So I said, “Both of you out of the house right now, you just picking up fights for no reasons and finding reasons that are fake. They were two things you could have done differently. Picked up the hidden keys from the planter. If not, you should just call me on my cell phone. You do not do any of those and you're making a scene trying to prove to the world that I'm a bad mother or a bad wife or a bad mother, a daughter-in-law and bad woman. I don't care what the world thinks me, I don't care what you portray to the world about me. This is my house. I paid 120k for this house. I want you out, pack your mother's bag. I don't care. Send her back to place, to the same place where she was for the last twelve hours.” And then he says, he came, he moved her, his mother, in the middle of the night to her to do whatever she was during the day– I didn't go looking for her where she was– and then he started abusing me, saying, “You're bringing embarrassment to a man, I'm the breadwinner.” And I didn't feel safe, I packed my bags and I left.
[01:02:28]
I was on the street and in my car for four days. And the– with the rest of the hotels wouldn't give a room for the walk-in. And I didn't want it to use my debit card or credit card to book a room online because he would be tracking, I just withdrew cash and I said, “I'm going to pay cash. Why wouldn't you not accept it?” Finally– it was not contraction or cramps but it was too much for a pregnant woman to go through the kind of stress, to be without a jacket, without a food, without any emotional support on the street, living in the car in a– and nobody wanting to give her a room even if she's ready to pay upfront in cash– so, I finally booked to use my debit card or credit card, one of the two, and I just booked her hotel room and I just crashed two days. I crashed, I would– couldn't get up from the bed because I was in the car for four days. And I said, “You want me to come home, I want to see that your mom has left America. Because under her influence, I don't feel safe that you are a safe man to be around. She's telling you weird things that you would not do otherwise.” So she brought up the fact, “Whose house is this? How much is my son paying? How much is your son paying? How much is your contribution to this?” And that I said, “How much did your contribution? Your husband has been feeding you for sixty years, how much has your contribution being? How much dowry did your father give to take care of the two of you for the rest of your life, is it still there? You are not earning– your father didn't give any dowry, your husband is taking care of you. What is the problem? If my husband took care of me, dowry was given by father to take care of my daughter because she cannot on for herself, right? Why are you teaching all this nonsense to my husband? I mean he's a well-educated husband, well-educated, well-groomed man, what nonsense are you telling him? Like we were, we had figured it out, right? Why are you bringing up things that don't need to be brought up? Leave. We left behind in India. Don't bring the nonsense to US and I– you want me to tell you how much dowry my father gives? He's already paid for it in advance, right? So what's the big deal? Well, if I don't own, and my husband is taking care of me, that's what marriage is for, that's what wedding is for.” There's no need for a woman to get married to take care of the dishes for a man. I mean if you take care of your own needs, I'll take care of my own needs, right? But there is a system in the society that we all work together. I mean, you don't comment, mess up in somebody else's system, they figure it out between both of them. So– so she left and then I came back home. I made sure she is not in America trying to influence him, but the phone calls, internet, Wi-Fi, everything is global now. It's just cheap phone calls now. Earlier, people would send telegrams and people who have to send, also, like, send letters. It would take six months to communicate, and people were happy because the past– and the old religion and all society is they're not there to influence, but with the– with the internet, the old is connected with the new again and it's just bringing up bad things. It's not bringing good things. Earlier people calling India was expensive, people wouldn't call India that often, maybe they would call for Diwali, they would call for birthdays, or they would call for any other festival and that maybe two or three phone calls a year. That's– that's the only connection we had with the– with the families that we left behind. We went now, we're talking twenty-four hours. And we don't know who's talking to whom, where, what, how many times, like, we are not tracking. When people don't want their spouse to touch their each other spouses phones, right, earlier there was only one phone call, everybody in the family knew who called, and who spoke what. Now, there is absolutely no idea what’s, who's influencing what. There is absolutely no idea who has influenced and who has told whom what I mean. I don't like– it's a normally how Karma works, the amount of domestic calls that increased in the last twenty years in the Indian society or Indian families in Indian US has gone up so drastically higher up as compared to what it was earlier. Because mother-in-law's still have access to the son’s directly by internet now, all your– it was not– and it's crazy. I mean the kind of stories that we would grow up listening to; how a mother-in-law treated a daughter-in-law and how they burn her alive for any nonsense. I mean it could be any reason. I mean you just know, right? You, the one of the things in the Indian weddings is giving away your daughter, at one of the rituals is giving away your daughter in donation to the– to groom's family. You basically, we have donated you our daughter, you do whatever you want belongs to you. I mean, the way they have been educated, earning daughters should not be given in donation, right? I mean, we need to our own space and for the rituals need to be changed and tweaked. All your daughters were got married at six, seven, eight, probably ten and eleven. Now you don't want to give away a daughter and donation at the age of thirty and thirty-five. Things were different, then, things are different now. And things need to change accordingly with times, with society, it's not the same. Probably, that's why there are new religions on the planet, people who walked away from the old.
[01:09:49]
So, that was one time. That was the second time. I was homeless for– for a brief time. And when I came from India in 2009, when I had a nasty experience with my ex-husband's mom, she still started prepping him, she started influencing him over the phone, to the extent it became unsafe for me to be with him again. In 2009 or 2010, when I believe– and during that time he was on medication because of the car accident, right? So the car accident in 2009 happened was he was in a friend's car, they were sharing a ride and he was on a conference call. And he went and banged into the car in front of him and the car behind him couldn't stop on time. So, there was a chain accident of six or eight cars together. Nobody else was harmed, except my husband. And he was down with concussion again, and as I told, he didn't want it to apply for disability with the state. There will be proof and there will be records. I don't want it to be known whatever, he was hiding it for what he knows. So, I was dealing with a patient when I was a patient myself with my carpal tunnel. So during that time, what he– what happened is, I told him something is off with the medication that you, you cannot be behaving like this when you take a medication, and he doesn't have memory of it, but I do because I experienced it. He says this all hasn’t happened. I said, you know, I– I hold a knife in my hand, a phone in my pocket, and my child in my arms, lock myself up in the bathroom, till the act of the medication is gone. Do you know what that means to me? And he says he has no memory. This was an everyday thing after he took the medication. For my self defense, that was the only thing, I would just pick up a kitchen knife just in case. And I said, go to the doctor and let's have the medication changed. I cannot be living with a man who tells– behaves like this after taking one pill, and lock myself to protect myself with the child in the bathroom, because I don't know if you break down the door of the bathroom, I need something to protect myself. I'm holding a knife in my hand just in case you come in. So he did two things. I said, okay, let's go to India and get an MRI and CT scan for the brain done in India because American insurance will not approve it. And I said, first thing is, I don't know what the insurance system was during those times in 2009, but it was tough to get an MRI and CT scan for the second time if it was already turned in the hospital. So– so the neurologist and the neurosurgeon they said, we need more MRIs and their insurance wouldn’t approve it. So, I went and told– he forgets, he is behaving in a manner that's creating– creating fear in my mind. So you're going to leave me because of the accident, let's make babies. So he would forget, he, we just had sex four times during the day. And I'm like you stay away from me there. This is, I am not leaving you. I'm taking care of you. I'm not leaving you because you had an accident. He was– he was making me unstable by his behaviors and actions, and I went and asked a friend saying that this is what is happening. So she took it so negatively and incorrectly. “Oh, so you're trying to tell me that you're having fun with your husband, and I was my life, my relationship with my husband is not so great.” I said, “Can you help me get out of the situation, he forgets he had sex four times five a day.” He is trying to control the relationship that he thinks he's losing, but there, I am not leaving him yet just because we met with an accident. So he brought it to the table, his– with his fears and insecurities, and so he would tell one thing to the one person, the other thing to the other person and I'm like, which story am I supposed to tell? So I said, let's go to the doctor together. So we have a family plan to heal you and treat you to get you better. I went to the neurologist and I told okay, this is what is happening. And he said, “I'm glad you came because these days families don't come, and we'd cannot really help the patient because we don't know the entire picture. And I'm really glad that you came. So thank you for helping us help your husband.” I said, "That's what I want, I– you just tell him I'm not going to leave him and I want to help him get better and I want to be with him.” So he wouldn't believe. He said, “Why did you tell this to the doctor?” I said, “Who else? Your family is not willing to come, my family is not willing to come. We have to trust the doctors in America and ask for help. Who else are we going to ask?” It was a white gentleman, beautiful doctor, he was very loving, caring, and kind, and very patient and wanting to help, and wanting to help our family get out of the situation we were stuck in, and he was willing to do everything and write, any kind of letter to the insurance, whatever it takes to get things done right? And he, “I don't want you to get involved. It's patient privacy.” I said, “I don't know. I told you I don't want to be a widow. Before you become a widow, you please sign the divorce papers.” He said, “Oh, so now you're going to leave me?” I said, “No, I'm not leaving you but you just sign this just in case. I don't want to live as a widow.” So, the whole idea of saying this for us, “I want you to live, and I want to work with the doctor to make you live longer,” and not go through all this– the problem you are going through– but he took it wrong, probably maybe my words came out wrong, whatever it was. So I was– I said, “Let's go to the family, family, care.”I mean, the family doctor, because his primary care and my primary care were different.
[01:16:57]
So, his primary care, I went to, and she was not the primary care doctor, that was the head of the practice, it was some student and I said, “You have a brain injury or neurological situation, do you think you should be seeing a student or you should want to see the head of the practice?” Um and I said, “I don't think– because I was under the impression you don't seeing the senior doctor and not a junior doctor because it is– it's not you didn't fall down from a cycle and head of injury, a scratch or a bruise, it's your neurological issues. We are dealing with a neurologist and a neurosurgeon here. And there is no senior doctor that you're speaking to. Who have you been speaking to all this while because, under the– under the protects of ‘I will do it myself’ and ‘I don't need your help.’ What, who have you been meeting for the last two months, three months, whatever?” He said, “I have been speaking to her.” I said, “She is a student. She's just out of college, probably. Where is the senior doctor?” “I have met her only once for the– for the annual checkup last year.” I said, “Why did you not request to meet the senior doctor, in the case of a neurological issues? You want to change the doctor? Let's go to change the doctor. You will come to my doctor. My doctor, his office is next door. The whole idea of this was you check, you go and meet and do a first evaluation with the doctor and you tell me how you liked her, and I will do an evaluation with another doctor next door, and both of us will decide, and then we will just keep one doctor between us.” So he said, “No, you keep your doctor. I'll keep my doctor.” So that's the reason we had two different doctors. So, I'm like, okay, so now I go in the– the office. Speaking of me, him and the doctor, the junior doctor, is talking to each other and I said, so I introduced, he introduces me– me to her, and he tells her she doesn't believe in me, in him, she came out to check out what kind of doctor he is seeing that was fair. But the next sentence he said, “She thinks there's something going on between you and me.” I said, “I have no issues with your character. I trust your character.” I never thought that there are character issues with my husband, right? So I'm like in awe, you know, trying to figure out what should I say, and I just didn't say anything. I just said, okay, get over with the appointment and let's go, but he had already started making things up, right? So I said, by the time I said, okay, there has to be some help, you're not letting me come to the doctor's with you. You're not letting me help you, but you don't know what it does to you when you take that one pill of whatever that medication is given to you. My son would start crying after seeing the father. He was so scared. We both were so scared. Raj was like maybe were eighteen months, twenty months, probably two years. Not more than that. And I'm like, “Do you know what kind of impact you're having on that child's memories of what your behaviors are?” “You are feeding the child?” I said, “No, it's your actions. You don't realize what happens to you.” So he, I said, “I need help, I can't do this. I need a doctor, I need a professional.” That has to– I did not know at that point. I didn't know, I could go to the insurance and I say, “Hey, we need a house aid, you know, he is disabled,” for a fight for the disability. Nothing. He's cracked a deal with his company saying that, “I want a full salary, now, I don't want to apply for disability.” So they were paying him the salary for the rent or the EMF, and the expenses were taken care of during that time, right? So now I'm like, what do I do? So he says, “Okay, I'm ready to take help.” I said, I was very happy. I said, okay. So he said, “I have taken an appointment with the psychiatrist and we are going to get, I want you to come with me.” I said, okay. So there is some beginning. So I didn't know what, I had to figure out what a psychiatrist was, a psychiatrist, psychologist is. I didn't know for a really long time. So I went there. And I said– he said, “Why don't you sit here outside? And I'll go and speak to the doctor. And then once I'm done, then you come.” I said, okay, could be some men’s thing you wanted to discuss.
[End of Recording Two]
[Beginning of Recording Three]
[00:00:00]
So okay, so let's talk about what, how my experience here after moving to Amandla’s was. So, just starting July. On my personal experience was, it's a very wonderful and safe, respectable place to be. The people here are very genuine and gentle and always wanting to help and support for us to get better. And when I came here, I remember I was on a kind of medication that was not suitable for me. That created confusion and anxiety, but the medication was to stabilize me for anxiety. So I was hearing a lot of dead people speak. I was seeing a lot of dead people around me, and at one point of time, I was missing my children to such an extent that I started hearing my children's voices. I've heard them cry, I heard them play, I heard them sing and dance and play and laugh. And I, my brain couldn't figure out, I thought my children were dead. And I had to be hospitalized, so they put me on medication to calm me down, be verified, the children are alive, they did– nothing happen to them. And so, they put me on medication, but the medication that was supposed to calm me down was giving me anxiety, and it created a confused state of confusion for– in my mind that I couldn't decide for myself, for a brief period of time till we figure out what the correct combination of medicine would be. So, I came here with for while, when I moved here, I was on the still on the testing medication, I was still on the trial and error phase of, to figure out what the correct combination of medications could be. So, Jason did most of the decisions for me because I was lost during that small phase of time. And when I moved here, I wouldn't get out of the bed. I didn't have this bed, I just had one single spring box and I would, I don't even remember who brought that for me though, and I was just sleeping on that. And that's all I had this. This, all I collected later. All my bags were in the back bedroom, and I wouldn't even go there. I was scared even to go there, there was– there was first slowly after a week or two I started walking around in the apartment. I started going and sitting outside and the, and in the– in the– at the cul-de-sac. And then I started speaking to people, listening to their stories and opening up and sharing my stories. I didn't know what kind of a place this was. And later I came to know everybody here at some point probably was homeless or has some medical condition and– and because of the medical limitations, health limitations problem, they do not have earning capacity and cannot pay their own rent. So that this is– this is a– this is an organization that helps people give them house and do the paperwork with the state to get their housing approved. So I only came to know all these things after moving here. I'd– I had no clue about all this earlier. So when I started talking to people, to start listening to the stories of– I realized I'm not the only one on the planet, this– there is trouble and there is– there is– there are people have different kind of experiences here.
[00:04:03]
And later, I start– so I started making friends. I started connecting with people. I made friends with the staff here. UBHC would come, I had a case manager coming from UBHC, meet me every week, so she helped me a lot and to figure out things, find out when a word through the system, get things done for me, make appointments for me, get me the resources or help me with lot of things. So, I was still going to UBHC for a partial day program and the– in the meanwhile they– we got the perfect combination of perfect med– medication that would not give me anxiety but calm my anxiety down.
[Editor’s Note: In 2015, the Mission First Housing Group and Making it Possible to End Homelessness (MIPH) joined alliances to renovate and update 46 defunct housing units in Edison, NJ. In Fall 2017, these units were opened to the public as Amandla's Crossing. Current tenants, mostly families and those who have been chronically unhoused, can take advantage of on-site supportive programs. A separate supportive housing site called Imani Park was also opened in Fall 2017 and both properties are currently managed by Columbus Property Management, a member of Mission First Housing Group.]
And then all of a sudden it was a new day. All of a sudden, the storm was gone. I mean, and later, I started discovering the neighborhood. I started walking towards, towards the Main Street towards the college and the other sides of the neighborhood. And then I started, figured out that I was so close to the county college that I could go walk there every day. So I started with, like, five minute walk first, because I was scared. I didn't know how far I wanted to come later. I started with fifteen minutes, and ten or twenty minutes, and then I went like an hour and a half, I would walk five miles every day. And then I would come back, so it took me some time to discover the neighborhood, but, and to be on my own because the experiences during the divorce had created a lot of confusion and distrust and people like as I told, I don't want it to trust any American, I was ready to go to Russia. I was– that kind of distress the American system put in me, I was ready to go to London. I mean I was ready to go anywhere that would take me away from America and I was not willing to accept help from an American. I mean, Jason, I said, “No I'm not taking help from you.” I was– I chose to stay on the street for fifteen more months before I accepted, fifteen or maybe sixteen more, eighteen more months before I accepted to take help from Jason again. Jason said, “Are you– you ready?” And I said, okay. I just kept pushing Jason away and I said, “I'm not taking any help from anybody.” People would give me money on the street, and I wouldn't take money from them either. I mean I just didn't want help, their help. And so when I came here, I started trusting slowly, knowing that I was not the only one, seeing I was in a shelter but it was not the same as what it is here. So I started trusting people again, I started connecting with people again, I saw– I– listening to their stories, listening to the experience, what happened to them, how they ended up here. Things were different. And Melissa and Anna worked together, the way they came across, my– my faith, my faith– and my– I started believing in women. I went through faith that I didn't even want me to trust women. Forget about men, right? So I trust with Melissa and with Anna, I started trusting women again. I started opening up, started sharing. I started believing they're not taking my information, giving it to a man who's going to manipulate me. Because that was what was happening around me. And then I started speaking up, I started for participating in programs, and started arranging programs. You know– you weren't here for Diwali program, right? Did we invite you? So I will do it again in March, just for you so– so we did that and then that's good. So now I have friends, my neighbors next doors, people had a lot of complaints about them and I have none. So everybody had their own experiences, but it was good.
[00:08:54]
I some– I got my green card, I got my passport while I was here, so I was able to travel to India. My dad wanted me back home. I was still concerned whether I should trust again, and go back, and revive the relationship, or just keep a relationship over the phone. But it was Ganesha and I said, I will go home for Ganesha because I want to start the connection with the family tradition again. The family has been celebrating Ganesha for more than 140 years, and if in the Hindu culture, if there is a death in the family, or if there is a new birth in a family, the festivals or rituals cannot be done the same way, or either they have to be not celebrated or has to be done differently. So we knew that my brother's wife would be delivering a baby soon and we knew it was going to be tried during the same time. If she delivered before, we couldn't celebrate the– the Ganesha, and they– they didn't want to miss the celebration, or skip this celebration. So, a temple pujari suggested that we– there is an alternate that an outsider can do it. The somebody from a outside the household– so I am considered as an external outside and household because I'm not part of the same household. So, I go, I went to do– to do the– do the same thing, what the men of the family have been doing for hundred and forty years– years. I did everything during this– for the first time a woman did it, and it happened to be me. So, there was some connection I had when I was on the street. I picked up that thrown away or discarded Ganesha Idol to do, boost my self-esteem and confidence, and give me faith that God is with me. And I, normally you're not supposed to keep a damaged idol, you don't pray to a damaged idol, but I took this to the– to idol– to the– to the supervisors station to share it with my children. I said, “Look what I picked up from outside the grocery store.” And they had, they saw the broken idol and both of them, I didn't tell them what to do, they had all the the art supplies, and they had the– the, what is it’s called, the Band-Aids. So everywhere, the Ganesha idol had a broken arm and scar, they put a Band-Aid on it everywhere so that Idol has band-aides everywhere. So, for me, it was like, we took care of the Ganesha. Oh, so now we'll take care of the Ganesha that took care of us. Now, it's time for us to take care of Ganesha, kind of thing. So, so, relief. If my father sees that idol, he's the first one to asking me, to put it into the sea, let it go into sea, or let it go in the river, and I cannot have it when I said I'm going to pray and this is what kept me going. The Ganesha is what kept me going for that four years, five years, whatever to span has been. And I wished that I want to go home for Ganesh, at least once. Because I felt that urge to wanting to be– be home for the festival because I wanted to go home for the– on the 100th year, but because of all these things I couldn't fly. So, when I went, I expressed that desire last year at Diwali, when my– my cousin, my brother and his wife were not pregnant, and she delivered the Ganesha right one day before she delivered her daughter, right, one day before Ganesha. So there was no way anybody the family was would be allowed to celebrate or do the rituals themselves. So, it came onto me to do all those things. It was fun and it felt the connection to do some higher-powered who's listening to my wishes. So, it's good. I came back. I say the last year, all I have, all I have been doing is attending doctors’ appointments, because being on the street I ignored so many things that I didn't realize, but come up at a later stage, the probably they were there but I didn't have a insurance or doctors to take care of me. So, ninety percent of the stuff is taken care of. Now health-wise, if anything new comes up, I don't know if there is anything hiding. I don't know, but it's much, much better than what it was. Like I put on eating food in the– in the– in the shelter I put up almost, like, thirty to forty pounds. I had to lose a lot of weight, still another twenty pounds to lose, but I lost a lot. My dental, my eyes, my cholesterol, my vitamin D levels, omegas, my vitamin B12, everything– everything was completely fine. My breast mammograms, my pelvic ultrasound, everything was completely– I was like, I'm glad I'm not under the scissors yet, but things turned around slowly, for the good. I started a few things on my own.
[00:14:47]
I now going to study for New Jersey state life– life insurance exam. So I will get my– by the time I get all my license, I plan to become a financial advisor, because finding a job is still not easy. I don't know what's the problem, but at least I hoped if one avenue, one door is closed, something else is opening up, and I have to work and walk that path. I don't want to attempt that this door open for me because I want it to, if there is another open, I'm just walking, whatever opens up. So, because when I– I don't know if we discussed when I was working on Wall Street life was different, looking, looking at the perspective, the perspective of looking at life was different. Looking at America and the American dream was different, with this part of world, I don't know how many, how much, how many people actually know this side of America. They only know the Wall Street Journal side of America, probably or the Hollywood side of the America with this. There's a lot of things that happens in between the two extremes of– of America. And it's not displayed on television or on movies or probably, we haven't picked up any books that have gone, that have made it to my– to my reading table to expect for me to learn what America was all about. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm saying that that is also a part of life, and when– when we look at America as a superpower to have trying to help everybody else, you see the– the wounds that America has inside it. That’s a bigger picture. Actually, it's not that poverty is not there, is there only in one part of the world or not and the other part of the world there– it’s not there is no problems in one part of the world and there is problems only other part of the world. Everybody has their own ways and issues and limitations. And when US portrays itself as the person to help everybody in, when in times of need it has its own issues as well to take care of it. It– when people– people always come to you as– as with an asking world, sometimes it would be nice. If somebody has to offer something to America, I'd return like small things, my son is considered my children are considered American. My parents are considered Indians, right? A phone call from India for the birthday or a gift for Diwali for– for the grandchildren, small things the rest of the world can do for them, because what is America built of one child in a poor family from some part of the country from some part of the other world, right? I mean, we don’t appreciate, I know, small things. I mean, we don't need a lot of, we don't– we're not asking for billion dollars, but a small, small smile, one smile once a year is good for America. It's coming from somebody else. Sometimes people just don’t know how to ask it. They don't know how to give. That's all right.
[00:18:41]
That's what I experienced. I mean, people want to– people come here, they want to earn dollars, they want to send back the foreign exchange. It's cheaper than here. If you make one dollar here, you send eighty rupees back home, right? If you're sending money, but sometimes it's nice to receive– like my dad feels empowered when he's sending dollars to me. Maybe it's not enough to take care of all my expenses. Maybe I can just go buy some food some once in a while or go and eat, buy a dress for myself, once in a while, it's not going to take care of hundred percent of my monthly expenses. But I like to tell that my dad, “Send me some money and I bought a shirt.” When my dad goes around and, “[Redacted]bought me the t-shirt or she bought, she sent me this phone or she sent me this pin,” he would like to show around to watch what I sent for him from US. I would like to do the same once in a while. So, the– I'm not generalizing that all of America is like this, but he has– if you receive a gift from your far away cousin from XYZ country, would you be happy or not? That's– that's– I just need one smile once in a while from some part of the world. I mean, we keep giving all the time, we didn't, we don't need you to pay our bills with, yeah. Once in a while, once in a while it's good, it's good for health. I don't know. Sometimes I have to fight with my dad or my family members, like, where is my gift to this year? This, he sent me a message this past day before was the full moon, right? So, I said, that particular full moon of the year the parents asked for long life and healthy life and prosperity for the children. And there is a ritual that we do. I didn't get to do it with my children this year but normally I would do it. But my dad just sent me a text message, saying that, “Happy [Unclear],” and I said, “Where's my gift?” I said, he said, “I've given you enough while you were here too.” So yeah, so you father– So I have started asking, like, this year I was in India, and I said, I need my gifts for eight years that I did not come. I asked my brothers like I said, he said, “Where did you learn to ask all such things?” I said, “When you keep the shame on the side and fear on the side, you learn to do it by yourself.” He said, “You were not here for eight years, you know, to get your eight years of gifts. You are here this year; you get your gift.” So, he bought me this and I'm wearing the anklets. So, so I hear you have to be here to get your gifts. I said there's something called careers and there's something online purchase so that hasn't reached them yet, but it's okay. It's one reason to have some conversation, you know, I can pull his leg. I said, the papayas, "Where's my gifts this year,” who know, he said– I had the same, same person who told us the papaya theory. I went and argue with him, “Where's my gifts for eight years?” I said. So, he gave me for this year. I said, I'll take it. So I started digging into the papaya, a bit. If you don't ask, you don't get, right? I think we should stop; you're getting late and then I don't know what else to say.
[End of Recording Three]
TRANSCRIPT 5
Interview conducted by Dan Swern
Edison, New Jersey
November 10, 2022
Transcription by Hannah M’Lynn
Annotations by Lucy Gilch
[00:00:00]
Today is Thursday, November 10th, 2022. It's 11:55 AM. I'm here at Amandla Crossing and I’m here– this is Dan Swern, and I’m here speaking with?
[Redacted].
So, [Redacted], thank you for continuing this journey with me.
Mhm hmm.
And, uh, whenever you’re ready, please.
Okay. So I came to America 2005, June of 2005. And I did not have a green card, I was on an HP4 dependent spouse visa. Uh, for the f– And I knew I was going to get my green card because my ex-husband was a student in, uh, US. And then he got a job. His employers applied for his green card. And by the time we got married, he was almost two third process. Into getting his own green card. So when we got married, he added my name to the file. And within less than fifteen months after wedding, sorry not fifteen months, within less than twenty-four months of wedding, we got our green card. Uh, to first twelve months, uh, after the wedding, we stayed together in India, and then we, he came here. I followed him. So during that time, I was working for an Indian grocery store as a cashier. I think I've mentioned this earlier, so. Of a neighbor of ours had gotten into an argument with the– the director or the head of department for, in Citibank for– for the NRI division, so to– to calm him down, she agreed to give a job to a person who he would recommend. Uh, so he recommended my name, saying, “Please consider her for a given position.” And that's how I was called for an interview and I got that job. I don't, I don't know what had happened between both of them, or what had happened between Citibank and that neighbors of mine, but it was big enough for me to get a job. So for him, for him to come, for them to calm him down as a customer. So, in the meanwhile, I was working with an organization in New York called Upwardly Global. And they are– they are an NGO that help immigrants find job in America, uh, based on their work experience and education in their own home countries, and that you could be an asylum seekers here, you could be spouses here, you could be any as well as you haven't work full of green card or such. That they'll help you find jobs based on your work experience and your education back in your home country. So they will not– they will– because if you come here most of the time, people end up starting from zero. This uh organization helps you. To build a platform from where you were so that if all your credits are to, credits are transferred to America.
[Editor’s Note: Upwardly Global is a non-profit organization that assists immigrants to the United States who have professional experience and training in their home countries to restart their careers in a new country. The narrator herself was an experienced professional in India and encountered many barriers to finding employment here in the United States.]
So with that, while I was working with them, I attended a couple of, uh, um, networking events. Uh, uh, uh, resume building uh events. Uh, job interview. Uh, workshops. One of the networking events, um, I met few people from Merrill Lynch, Bank of New Y– America, JP Morgan, Pepsi. All those people. So. So, um. JP Morgan. Managers from JP Morgan were like, saw a potential in me and they wanted me to leave Citibank and join JP Morgan Chase.
[00:03:50]
The only thing was it was an HR administration back office job as compared to as a banker. What I was doing here, uh, in Citibank. So I wasn't quite sure what it meant for me when I was going to do this switch. And if you remember, I mentioned last time, because that I already had my India trip planned for my ex-husband's brother's wedding. So, um, I was, like, trying to convince them that, “Let me go to– go to India, finish my India trip, and then come back and join you guys,” which they just said, “We'll– we'll– we'll, manage your vacation.” So, I– within less than six weeks, I left Citibank to join JP Morgan Chase during the course of the interview. I realize they are. They were. They were merging. They acquired Bank of New York and in during the process of merging they wanted to bring the– the number of bankers in Bank of New York branches at par with the Bank of– with that, of the branches in Chase branches. So, I think the operation was one teller to two bankers or something like that. I forgot. It's at least fifteen years now. So, when, or what do you want to learn to three bank or something like that, so whatever those ratios were, so. Another team member of mine would hire tellers and I would do bankers. And the targets were put up huge, like, one hundred bankers a month kind of a thing. So, to see those hundred bankers hire those one hundred factors. I would meet at least two to four hundred people over the phone or in person and then narrow down who would be hired. So my job was not to hire them but was to– to screen them and present them in front of the– the hiring managers, and they would interview them, and then between both of us, we would discuss whether they were a good fit or not, and then I would make the offers. Offer rate for the 99% of the worst– really, very rarely people would– I would take people, I would take people to the next level knowing that they're not making it through. So the next level in Chase was. Start doing five rounds of interviews we had to pass using 663. And life insurance within two months, so you had a full, you had a full time paid job, but as the job was to attend the training and pass the exam, so first two months that's all you do back in two. And, um.
[Editor’s Note: In 2000, two of the world' oldest banks merged when Chase Manhattan Corporation bought J.P. Morgan & Co. The name of the company became J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., as we know it today. In 2008, Washington Mutual collapsed in the largest bank failure in U.S. history and was then bought out by J.P. Morgan Chase Bank.]
[00:06:25]
If you did not make it through, then you lose your job. Most of the time, it works. So, I would all together my– my, I would like to call it ninety– ninety to ninety-nine percent. Let's to be honest safer side calling ninety-five percent. But, um, uh. There was a time when, uh, we were hiring like crazy and there were people who came to know Chase is hiring. And then? My number was out. Other bankers, other recruiters. Numbers were out, so people would start directly calling and saying, “We heard that Chase is hiring. I work in so and so– come from this financial organization. I have this license and I wanted to join Chase.” I remember that one time there was a court case against Chase because we emptied all their bank– Financial advisors. So I don't want to take names when I'm saying that if we didn't do it intentionally and people were calling people, they were word out on Wall Street that Chase was hiring and people started reaching out to us on their own account. We didn't go looking for– I personally did not go looking for, uh, a company that had bankers or financial advisors who had all the licenses and then moved them over to Chase from– These are the people who followed me, if I'm– my candidate bank was only limited to people who applied on the Chase website. I did not go looking out for any fair outside as a recruiter. The managers who were the bank managers would go shopping, which means they would go to shop, right? They would go to Walmart and they would go to Target or they would go to any other places and see if they if they would see any good manager, customer service or cashiers that– If they think that they would be in a good fit and they would be able to switch from retail to financial banking, then they would ask them, give them a card and say, “I'm a manager and if you are interested just switch over to finance or banking, uh apply.” So if they applied, then I would, I would take it to the next level. So we hired more than 4-5000 bankers, I would say. During that span of two years. The only thing that happened is, was, I don't know, who was at the top level of HR– of the people who worked, um, uh, for twenty hours extra, like, forty-eight or sixty. You want to shut it off?
[00:09:05]
[End of Recording One]
[Beginning of Recording Two]
[00:00:00]
Okay, so the only limitation I was saying that happened or, I– I don't want to call it this limitation with something very silly but, according to me, unprofessional, was that people, Chase employees who worked sixty hours, eighty hours per week to get this, uh, merger done and to bring the, um, to merge, um, the Bank of New York projects with that of Chase. Most of them lost their jobs. And it's– and the positions were filled by Bank of New York employees or somebody else. So it was like, who was in charge of the merger? Like, how do you– you lose your own job? And so I was really, uh, really pissed off. Like when they, when 100– 120 or 119 employees from the HR, Chase HR, who were instrumental in completing the Bank of New York merger, all of us lost our jobs. I mean, who was there to get– pull our cards up? Like, how did that even happen? Like, did you just use us, and to find a reason to get– get rid of this? Or it was a bad management that nobody was watching? I mean, no king wants his– no king wants his, um, uh, soldiers dead after the war, after winning the war, right? So, I don't know how that happened, but it happened. So, um, I was one of them. It was 119 or 120-some odd number that HR employees. And then there was another second phase. Um, of– of– of layoffs, within, like, twelve months again and I'm like, there’s a chunk of more people that lost their jobs. So I’m like, you just walked over or you just bought a new bank. The whole idea is you probably need more people or you want to save your existing people, and I don't know who– who– who pulled the cards and whose decision it was to let go of the existing employees who– who were actually instrumental in doing, completing a, more just successfully. Um, but since then, I personally had a lot of difficulty the last fifteen years. I still don't have a full time job. I don't know what else, what connections and what reasons. I don't know. Different– there were a lot of politics. Uh, internally. Silly politics, I would say. Um– um, the manager was new, who had started just a month or two before I joined, and she was a switchover from Bank of New York. I was, I worked with Citibank only six weeks, um, and I gave a thirty-day notice. So, actually I worked only for two weeks visiting.
[00:03:00]
Um, and, um, so I was from Citi. There were everybody else, were either new or ,like, have started as an, um, um, entry level in Chase and having them for ten years, fifteen years and have reached that position where I– I sat directly as an– as an immigrant within foreign education and foreign experience, and obviously I didn't have the kind of connections, uh, within the organization, and I didn't understand the– the– the cultural impact of sitting there and trying to hire somebody and they say you need somebody with, um, with Spanish language skills, or Chinese Mandarin or Cantonese language skills, somebody needed a– a, what, um, Russian. Brooklyn was big on Russian, uh, uh, language skills. So they wanted– they wanted bankers with specific language skills. So, but when it came down to end of the– end of the– end of the month, um, reports? You can’t say that the recruiter is biased and she hired more Russians than Chinese when you were the one who told her to hire her. Right? So I couldn't– couldn't defend myself for some reason, uh, with internal politics. When you gave me a list, you said, “This– this particular branch needs somebody speaking Russian, and this particular branch needs somebody speaking Chinese, Mandarin and Cantonese.” So if you give me this list and then there is no balance in how much you are asking for, which I'm giving you exactly what you asked me for, you can't be complaining that I'm biased against, uh, Spanish speaking speaker, because you did not hire anybody, but you didn't have, give me the requirement to hire anybody. There are story– if there is, so, sometimes in America, I feel that you cannot have a debate or you cannot defend yourself. You just have to take, um. If I was in India with this kind of a scenario, I would have made a lot of money. I would have got a lot of promotions. In America I was told that, uh, [clears throat] I was biased. I said, “Well, you asked me to hire this. I didn't know. I go out on a hiring, on my own. I didn't know what to hire unless you told me what to hire.” I was told, uh, I cannot use my own, um, numbers. My target numbers are achieved numbers of hiring that will put it. The entire team look bad. So I was too good to even write my own achievements on my appraisal. And I– instead of getting a promotion or instead of getting an– a bonus or instead of getting an increment, I go, I got a layoff letter.
[00:06:01]
So. I was pregnant. I worked all throughout my pregnancy. Um, even during the pregnancy, I worked eighty hours. So, so I was like, I– I couldn't– I don't understand how it works. I mean, um, um, but if I did the same job in India, I would have made millions. It's– it's a different culture there. When you, uh, you say you have to achieve a target and you achieve the target, you don't come back and say, “Oh, you achieved it in the wrong way.” I mean, what were you doing when I was doing it all the time? Not on the last day, right? But anyways. But otherwise, the work culture was good, the people were good. Um, um, I didn't, um, um, I made good friends there. Relations were respective, respectable, but certain mannerisms or certain areas I was like, um, um, was not, um, were not, um, as were my expectations. I don't, um, I don't have an experience other than Chase working with a non-Indian. That's the only one. Otherwise, all of, all experiences were working with an Indian group of team, or Indian managers, right? So during all this was happening, my ex was giving an interview with Oxford, because the whole idea was to do his MB from Oxford. So he– he– he, uh, passed two– two interviews after giving his GMAT with Oxford and probably in the third heat they did not choose him. So, during those times when I was thinking that he probably will make it through, so I started my negotiations at work as saying that he would be moving there and there's– there's no reason I would, should be staying here because I was still like three years old. I mean, there was too small period of time for me to stay in America by myself and he's gone to London. So I said that, “I want to transfer there, or give me a transfer to Mumbai. I'll– I'll have a family and we'll stay with me in Mumbai, or I'll stay with him in London.” So, I already started those talks assuming that he's going to be leaving America, going to Oxford. And then I– I was pregnant. I'm not staying alone. So as a family, we had already decided or I said, you know, I will leave, stay here with his family, with his extended family members. You know, if they need to be, so I was open for everything. Uh, but he somehow, uh, did not make it, uh, through the third round of interviews. And he– he had already met with the accident, uh, outside Toys “R” Us, so he was already acting weird.
[00:08:57]
The fear that I have a lot of money in my savings and I would let him go because I'm, we, he met with an accident. So he, his whole idea was to exhaust my, uh, my savings account. And that's how we bought a house in New Jersey. In Edison. Uh, only to exhaust my savings, not with an intent to stay together, or to invest, or to plan a future together. No, it was that she would run away with the money. She will leave me. I– I just went with that accident. I don't know what was going– what are the things he thought was counting in his mind that were– that he felt insecure, that I would leave him because of one accident. But, um, so, I asked her, when I met with the train accident in Mumbai, did you leave me? I'm still with you. We still have together, so why do you have the fear? That, uh, I would leave you just because of an accident. Like, I don't understand. So, that was the first time he abused me physically, so that I signed a check for $50,000. So, going back to Wall Street, uh, he was working for a company. Uh, is it okay if I take names? He was working for New York Stock. New York. What was that? New York Board of Trade, I believe. Uh, IBOT. So I think that's the full formula of Board of Trade, so. And they, as JP Morgan was busy, uh, merging with Bank of New York, taking over the Bank of New York, uh, IBOT was busy with the merger with ICE. Intercontinental something something Exchange? So. Uh, so, uh, both of us were tied up with the mergers, because his company was going through the same. I was at work, I was going through the same. So it was a very– very demanding work where both of us were working like sixty, seventy, eighty hours, and on top of that I was pregnant. Um, so I gave him an option. I said, “You know what? Come join Chase. It would be easy for both of us to climb the ladder.” So, which he refused. He wouldn't even apply. Wouldn't even submit his– submit his resume for it. He probably did not have the confidence of getting into bigger-name companies. I was always into big name companies. He likes startups and small companies. So he was a different personality. I was a different personality. “I feel suffocated in small company,” he said. I need bigger names. So, um. So, um. So, um. But, uh, the manager who put my name on the, uh, on– on the layoff list didn't realize that she put everybody's name that she hired after she joined Chase. And the people who were left, left out and who still were part of Chase would all existing employees of Chase. She was cutting the branch off or that she was sitting on, right? She hired at least five to eight people that after she joined Chase and she let go everybody. So there was– So her name was obviously there in the next list. So I mean. How can you hire eight wrong people that you want to let them go in the first three years? For me, I'm looking as an HR perspective, like.
[00:12:50]
I'm not saying that she was the wrong person or she was a bad manager. The decision making or the choices, like, when you are a manager, you're hiring eight new people in the team. There are ten new, ten old people already in the team and when it's time to let go, so you're letting go all the right people that you hired? You, I mean, you're going to be next. I mean, you're telling the management that you made poor choices. That's what I felt. Okay, I could be wrong. I didn't sit and ask her or chat with her. “What happened? How did this all happen now?” There was no discussion whatsoever. This is your name, your name is on the list and that, that was the end of the discussion. Bye. I don't know. Why that– how– why it ended like this? I don't know. Um. Small things, being an immigrant, people found reasons to correct me. And that was one big thing I realized in America is people are correction officers all the time. They want to correct somebody. Not this, like this. Not this, not like this. Not stop. They would– they wouldn't accept somebody as is. And twenty-four hours, there's no conversation. If you're talking to somebody, they're always correcting you in America. People don't care most of the times, at least from where I come. Or at least I, you would ask what it means if I don't know what you– because you could, it could, what you were seeing, somebody either doesn't know what it means or you are saying it differently, or calling it something else starts a different thing than. Clarification is different thing, you know, but you are continuously correcting somebody. That was a picture, cultural shock for me when I came to this country and it hasn't changed and stopped. After nineteen years of being here in this country, is somebody still correcting me. Um. And everywhere you go, even at a ShopRite, a grocery store, a cashier stop, somebody is always correcting you nonstop. So that's, I'm like, earlier I used to get irritated and now I just call them correction officers. Um, um, so. So, um, um, so back to Wall Street. Um. Have– there were a couple of incidents where, um, I didn't know the law, employment law, and, um, um, so I didn't learn it entirely, but I learned through the mistakes, mistakes. Since I cannot do this, I was sent letters by the– the legal department saying this is not accepted, or you cannot do this, or explaining what the law is, so, um, um. Wording is important. You cannot say this, but you can say it, the same thing, in this manner, so I was learning. Uh, I was learning. But have the– the pace was so fast that you had, they wanted us to hire bankers yesterday.
[00:16:06]
All have to be done yesterday, right? So it was so– I didn't get enough time to sit and learn because it was always working and when there was a time for a breather, they let us go. So, I didn't get a chance to learn at work, certain things that I would have loved to learn. But, um, um, but it was fun. It was fun. It was fast-paced. It was like, and, um, I loved the– the hiring process and reaching the targets was amazing. I mean, it just gives the thrill that is attached to it. Like you have a target to get one hundred new people on board and they have to pass their exams. They have to pass four rounds, five rounds of interviews, and they have to get their fingerprints, licenses and start working as bankers. People probably who did not have jobs, people who had took their time off from work for twenty years. I met every kind of people and I didn't know. Um. Well, I was wondering what 25, 27 that made, max 28 years old. I had only two of, probably one and a half years of experience in India and that was a completely different experience. You are giving a job to a woman who took a break, uh, for twenty years to raise her children, wants to come back to work. It's a big thing. It's a big thing in India, probably, if you would not even give a job. Or you wouldn't not even call them for an interview. Uh, somebody who was unemployed, give them a job, make sure that they have a job. Work with– with the Labor Department or, uh, people who have been homeless and work with the church to get– get them with a job, so.
[00:18:13]
The– the only place I felt was failed, no, the– the only place I felt was failed was to get a homeless job. Otherwise, I was able to give, um, um, people who came back from. Uh, Iraq? Or, what is it called? What’s the word? Deployed. The army men who were deployed, who wanted to come back, want– didn't want to continue. I have given jobs to them, people who worked for the American consulate abroad and didn't want to continue working for the government and want, came up and want to start working for private– Mothers who– [alarm beings to ring] [ringer stops] Mothers who have been away to raise their children. People who have been jobless for a couple of years, students out of college. All kinds of people. People who already have a job but looking for something different. So all kinds of people, people who already working on Wall Street and wanted something else. Because most of the times you work only on commission or profit sharing on, uh, on worksheets. Very few jobs gave you full salary and commissions, and this particular one job was, uh, that you would get a, you would get a $50,000 or $45,000 base salary and then you have the potential to make a– make commission, and there were bankers who were making a total of, uh, would take home annually something close to $120, $150K including commissions and bonuses, right? So that was a big amount of money. And people, people have, you know on Wall Street, people have that, uh, urge to make extra money and they have, not able to find the correct word. Um. And it's motivating for them to achieve more targets and they want more, extra sales, right? So, and so. Attending trainings. I was not very big on attending trainings and participating in training. Um, I was actually had to– people, my managers just had to tell me, “At least do some training.” When I was happy or sitting on my chair in my cubicle doing, hiring 100 people, sometimes 200. Um, um, uh. Um. What else should I show you? [inaudible] So, um. While I was, uh, with Chase, the only thing, two things that I was really sad about was, uh, the, in 2000 were, as I said, when it was the appraisal time, annual appraisal time in 2007. But, uh, yeah, 2008, sorry, 2008, January.
[00:21:09]
I was told not to write my real numbers. They didn't give me my numbers. I asked them. The administration there was an, um, what is called? Uh. In my ESCROW. I told him, give me a print out of my monthly, uh, hires. And Dropbox, like, how many hires I've made in the last twelve months, month wise. And she has not given me the permission yet. She has not approved your request yet. And I was not allowed to write my actual numbers on my appraisal, which were– which were, I felt like, I was told in a one-to-one meeting not to write but– and I thought maybe I can just write, I can do what I want, but I was not even given access to my numbers. So I was like, okay, so I couldn't write my numbers in my appraisals. So I– I think I got $1200 or $1500 raise probably. But I was like, not very happy. I was– I was happy with the– with the layoff letter, finally, because if you're not going to appreciate the work I do and you're going to tell me that. If I tell the– the managers talk, or I write my own appraisal and say, “Okay, this is my numbers. If it is going to make the entire team look bad, um, give me something better then. Move me to some other department and if you think I can, I'm an overachiever in the team. Transfer me to another team. Why are you trying to suppress me and neglect my achievements and,” uh, but I was already in my second trimester, or probably first trimester by that time, and my health went down really drastically bad. Like, I couldn't even stand the noise of running water. Forget about drinking water. I couldn't drink water. I couldn't stand as well– a smell of anything. Like we bought a new sofa and I couldn't sit in the– on that sofa. I couldn't go to that living room. I couldn't watch TV because the sofa was there. Uh, I had to close my nose walking from the bedroom to the– to the kitchen. Um, because the living room was on the way, right? So I had to cross the living room. So it was, it was miserable. I mean, I was throwing up and I was, uh, I was still working. I was working, but it was not the same, the kind of performance that I had before. I was not eating well. I was not keeping what I ate. I was throwing up at least ten, ten, five times. Whatever. Every time I ate, anything I ate, I threw up. So I did, the only way I figured out a solution was to start talking to the baby.
[00:24:04]
And I said, “Okay. I'm eating this, and this is made of this, and this is how it is made. This is how the ingredients are cooked together, and this is the dish, and I'm eating this.” I don't know where that idea came to me from. Only then, in the end of the second semester, the baby started accepting food. Only when I told the baby, what I'm going to be cooking, what it is made of. Even I was talking to myself in the grocery store. “Okay we are buying this to make this. We are buying this to make this.” So everything was “we” are doing this together. To the baby, talking with the baby, all– all the way, at least five months. Only then I could start keeping food. Uh. Otherwise I was, before first, the first trimester was miserable until I figured out what. How to keep– learn to keep the food was just keep talking to the baby ‘til the baby that, “Okay, we are going to make a soup. The soup is made of this, and this is how they're just made”. And the whole time I’m cooking, I'm talking. “Okay, I'm going to add cumin, I'm going to add coriander. This much coriander.” So only when I told, only then the baby would keep. Otherwise I would not. if I didn't forget, forgot to mention or, I just went and want something to microwave? I'm throwing up for sure. But if I said, “Okay, I'm going to warm this up in the microwave. This is made of this and this is called this.” Then I will keep. I don't know how, where that idea came to me from. But that's how I started keeping, retaining food, otherwise I was puking all over, so this affected my work performance really bad. Um. Because I slowed down, I would black out. I fainted. All these started. My doctor wanted me to get hospitalized. I didn't want it to go in the hospital. I was– I had seen my mother in the hospital with my sister. Uh, and I have those memories. I said. I'm not going to the hospital. Had she given me an option that she would give me a saline or glucose at home I would take it, but the memories that I have from my mom and my sis– younger sister, I mean the baby probably was in the inclubator– incubator? What is it called? The glass thing? Babies are– incubator, right? Incubators, right? So the pain– my sister was in incubator for more than twenty, twenty-five days, more than that I believe, and seeing that, my sister, I didn't want it to go in the hospital. I absolutely, not during the pregnancy. Um, so, um.
[00:27:00]
But this, my health had deteriorated and my performance was affected at work and, um, I want to believe that my past experience or performance was not taken into consideration because I was not allowed to pen it down. And then, because my performance went down during the first trimester, I think my name went to the, um, the layoff list. I don't– I don't believe there was any other reason, but I never had any discussion why my name was there. Um. But when they put my name, I was happy. I happily accepted it. I said I'll stay home with my baby, um, because after doing all this work, if you think you are not going to give me an appraisal, um, worthy of my work. It doesn't make sense for me to slog. I'm not here to impress, I– I have impressed enough people and I'm doing my job. You have to see my job if– if it is up to mark or not. But, uh, things. Uh, so somewhere at my, you know, I watched couple of Hollywood movies and so then I thought, I had a conspiracy theory already developed by, uh, by the time I left JP Morgan. I said it was, um, and I– I'm– there's no reality or truth or proof to it. It's just my– my Hollywood brain working right? So I thought that, um, um. Bank of America was not happy that JP Morgan bought, took over Bank of New York, so they sent Bank of New York employees to work for, um, to work for JP Morgan, and then these Bank of New York employees messed up JP Morgan. That was my– that was my Hollywood brain thinking. So, I didn't take it personally that, um, it was me, it was my performance or it was my work, why I lost my job, or why all those 120 people or JP Morgan employees lost their jobs, you know? So, so who knows. So I also had a theory that, um, HSBC was behind me to harm me because I took a lot of HSBC bankers. So, I had that, you know, London Bridge, I'm in– London is targeting me. So I had all this Hollywood um, um– Theories in my mind, and I didn't take it personally while I lost my job. Something, something up conspired. I said something, something Hollywood conspired in my life. Uh, so, um, so let's talk about. I– I don't have any other stories. I mean.
[00:29:55]
There are, oh, I want to check one silly thing. So I– I have probably gone away to Bahamas. I believe we took a small vacation. Uh, for four days or three days like a long, one long, long weekend too, while I was working and, or one of the two, and I came back and I forgot the password to my laptop or something like that happened. So I called them, uh, the back office and it was lunchtime. So I'm sure something, I– I had some other error because I it– it might not be the password, then. So, lunchtime. I call the– the back office and I said I need whatever, uh, I needed. I told them and they were working on it and I'm looking at the clock, I'm looking at them and I didn't figure it out. So I shut the computer and I left the phone running. And I– I shut, switched off my computer as usual and left for lunch and I came back. And then he was still waiting for me on the line. And I said, “How come you have not finished the work I gave you?” He's like, “But why did you shut the laptop? What am I supposed to do with a shut off laptop?” So I'm like, it took me at least a couple of more minutes to figure out what he was trying to tell me. Like, how was he going to access the computer if I shut it down? I was only angry because the work was not done and how was I, my work will be delayed. It took me a few, couple of minutes to figure out that I was the one who shut the computer off and he had no access to the computer to– to finish the work. So sometimes, um. Um. And you? I must have laughed at myself for a good one month after that. So, um, um. I think all of the stories are like, this is a lot to share, but it's too much. Um. [pause] [sigh] There was, um, I don't know who, but Chase during those times, they– they had something called a– everything has changed now, but during those times there was, as soon as you entered the branch, there was something called an sales associate who would, uh, would greet you and welcome you as soon as you went into the branch. Um, and then there was tellers. Uh, uh, bankers, assistant branch manager and branch manager. So it was a fully, um, um, if what is it called? Um, staffed branch, uh. Bank of New York did not have those. That kind of stuff. Um, my job was to, um, I had all of Brooklyn, so 2000–2007 and 2008. I had all of Brooklyn. So every Chase branch, new or old, I would, I was the one who would source bankers for them.
[00:33:12]
And Staten Island. Brooklyn and Staten Island. Uh, I had also done before that, they gave me Manhattan E. So there, it was good 100 branches or more, I think, before they gave me Brooklyn and Staten Island. But along with that, everything that was new world. So there was existing branches and there was newer branches. So there was Bank of New York branches. There was Chase branches, old existing branches. And there was new Chase branches. There were three kinds of branches coming up when they had to be catered at the same time. So I did all Chase new branches in New– New Jersey at one point of time, so, there. If you, for example, there is, um, there are two branches in New Brunswick, downtown. There is New– one on New Street and one on George Street. So George Street is an old branch, existing branch, and New Street was a new branch, so. There were two different recruiters, one for the old branch and one for the new branch. So I did new branches. So when even before the branch was up and running, even though before the furniture was done, I had hired a banker who was in the training, ready, ready to join them on the first day when– when they were ready to open the store or open the branch. So, in New Jersey, I think I had close to probably forty to fifty branches in New Jersey, maybe more. I don't have the numbers now. It's been fifteen years now, so, um, um. So, I did a lot of– but I never went down. I know I was sitting in Manhattan. This looking at my computer and I had a map of New Jersey so that I knew where I'm looking at. Because I had nothing. I had no idea. All I knew about Jersey was Parsippany, Secaucus, Edison. That's all I knew, right? And Jers– uh, Jersey City, or Newport, I would say so. When somebody's telling me I had to look first, first with Jersey, the problem was, for you, for me to hire one person in New York, I'm done in less than one week. For Jersey, it takes at least, minimum three weeks. So I didn't know why this was so. If I had an– if I– if I have put– if I posted job requisition on Chase website for Manhattan or for Brooklyn or Staten Island, um, my candidate would be in front of the manager within less than ten days, within less than ten days with everything cleared up from my side. Uh, checking, because it, my calendar had to match with the candidates calendar and with the hiring manager. And there were four rounds of, so you meet the branch manager, you meet the district manager, and if needed, you meet the market manager, right? So you had to check everybody's calendars.
[00:36:07]
He– he's all assuming that the candidate already has a job. And he has to take a days off before all these interviews. Um, so you had to make sure everything works out. So even after all this, the candidate was in front of a DM in less than ten days, right? For New Jersey, for them to come and meet me the first time would take three weeks. I don't know why. How? But it's very slow. Um, so what I did was I came down to Jersey in Paramus and I once, I said, and what's in Chatham? Oh, I said, “I– I'll be here instead of you coming to New Jersey. Let's do it here so that it will be faster.” Even then, even then, my– my turnover hiring was very low, very low. Um. So. Oh person who– in Manhattan, people, if I posted a requisition today, I had an interview. I have would interview somebody in person within the next three days. New Jersey was like, okay, I have this, I have that, and like they have a whole calendar there. Um, and for some reason they cannot twist or make changes to it. They cannot be on the next, uh, subway. I mean NJ transit train. And when I came to Edison, I realized the same thing. I cannot be on the train, next train to do anything. And get done with it. It– it needs a three weeks of planning, it needs five weeks planning just to get that one thing done. I don't know why what this– what's this? What's so, what is it about New Jersey that I personally cannot define, but it's, I don't know what it is, but it takes time. Even, it happened with me, so I'm still looking for a job after fifteen years. So, um, um, um, um. There were. I don't know if I’m allowed to take managers' names because I haven't taken their permissions. So, um, Chase, um, was divided into, in Manhattan east and west, um, markets. And then it was smaller districts, um, I think based on number of branches, each, uh, each district manager had. The branch manager would report to the district manager. The district would report to the branch, uh, to the market manager and the market manager would report to the regional manager.
[00:39:01]
Uh, so. Um. I don't know. Uh, so, um, um, um. So I have, um, being on call, getting on, getting on everybody's calendar to get the interview done, it was not an easy thing for me. It was a big learning process because, if I was in India, probably want to believe the kind of job I did, I would have an assistant or a PA to help me out. Here, there was not no help. You have to do everything on your own. Um. At least they would have been a common pay between five people or between four people. You know, here, um, I thought there was, but I didn't get the attention that I needed. I mean, I did a lot of job on my own and asking for help. And I remember one time I said, “I'm pregnant, I'm, I know I have not been coming to office regularly and my health has not been keeping well. This is my calibration inside me, and my– my work has been,um, delayed, um, backlogged. I need some help.” I wrote an e-mail to a manager saying, “I need forty man hours to come– to come to where I want to be.” And, knowing I'm pregnant, knowing I have not been keeping well, knowing I have been away from work, um, uh, and not being able to do my work consistently, um, as I used to do before I got pregnant, um. I was denied, um, upfront outrightly denied forty hours of man help. And there was, there were people, there were people who were doing job for somebody else. But I asked for and I personally would have, I, my mistake was I did not write a, mark a CC to my clients, clients, events, my hiring managers. It was, I wrote only to my manager and I did not mark a CC to my hiring managers and I don't know if she even went and asked hiring managers that I say, “[Redacted] is asking for help.” But all I came to know is, she decided to deny it. So. Uh, so, um it took– and when I joined, what I– what hurt me the most and why I was happy to, uh, to get the layoff letter was, when I joined, there was a girl. There was another recruiters whose job was assigned to me. Because she was on a maternity leave and before going on maternity, I don't know when her maternity started, um, when I joined, I was filling up requisitions that were more than twelve months old.
[00:42:00]
There was a backlog of twelve months that she had not finished her own work. And she was allowed to go on a maternity, full, full maternity leave. And I was finishing her unfinished work. Uh, as part of my training probation period. And I was filling twelve-month-old requisitions. Um, and when I was done completing that. They gave me more for work, and I have no problems with more work, but when I was pregnant, when I needed help, um, I was not given any help. I was not offered any help. I was denied him and I was, like, and, um, I didn’t like the fact. When I left there was no, no pending requisitions were, there would have been less than three-week-old requisitions. Everything was all shut down. So, I was my last trimester. I moved into the new house. I moved. My husband, ex-husband didn't change his behaviors because we bought a new house. Because I was pregnant. He was the same bad person that he chose to be. Um, um, uh, and I remember my ex-husband hasn't, um, uh, what is it called? Has an, um, his father’s colleague who was back, who left India came here. His wife was a manager at Bank of New York. Branch manager. The– when bank of manager, branch, Bank of New York merger happened, um, her branch was, um, uh, merged into Chase, and I think there was a possibility that she was going to do the job. I don't know what happened, but she, one day she called me. She said, “I want to speak to your manager.” And I think the merger had already happened. All she had to do was look up my name on the website and click on “reporting manager's name” and she would know who my reporting manager is but she, but she called me on my cell. For asking me for my manager's name and, uh, I gave it to her. I said, it could be any reason. We might, might be looking to, now that she's part of Chase and I'm not serving her branch, but my manager is– like there, another recruiter doing, within from the same team. So, I assume that she has been looking for something else. I just, without any thought, I gave her number. But later I came to know that my mother-in-law was with– was with her. It was the same period when the accident happened. The first accident happened in Times Square, uh, and my mother-in-law walked out of taking the responsibility of my husband. Lundi decided to stay with his family. The wife was a manager at Bank of New York, so between, with both of them, my aunt, my extended aunt, um, and my mother-in-law. Between both of them, I don't know. They got smarter. But they called my manager.
[00:45:09]
I don't know what happened, but, um, the behavior changed. Um, the attitude changed. The way of looking at me changed. So, my work at home, my work– at my work at– in office was not sufficient for me, uh, to get through a– a good appraisal for me, so. Um, um. So this is the, um, this is the Indian soap opera with Mike, right. So between all that, something happened. Between the Bank of New York, between the HSBC, between the, uh mother-in-law, something happened. I, my name was on the layoff list. I happily accepted it. I said, “Enough is enough.” Um, um, and I have been trying to look for jobs ever since. It’s not that I wasn’t looking. I don’t know what happens. I just don’t get any jobs. So I said, “It’s okay.” Good. Um, so I was, um, on an, on an, I was taking the unemployment benefits. And there was an option for me to, I think there was a very less, minimal interest or zero interest to start on, uh, to start a business that would give employment to more. So I was eligible for that and I was working to get a common franchise or something on that on, that note. And, um, there was resistance from people who should not have been interfering. It's not your business, right? Your children don't listen to you. They don't listen. They ask you, “Why are you interfering in somebody else's personal life?” It's a, it’s a matter of life and death because people have to earn their livelihood. If I had taken the opportunity and tooken that, taken that $100,000 from unemployment and started my own franchise, probably I would not have ended up, um, homeless, right? Um, probably I would not have been divorced, or probably I would be a millionaire! Who knows. But there were people in the family, extended, who called themselves as family but are not– are demons. They– they had an influence, negative influence over my ex telling them not to allow her to do all these things. These are the very people who went to India and told, “Oh, she sits at home, doesn't do anything and she has a mental problem. Maybe she has a mental problem. That's why she's not able to get a job and she cannot fund life”. So everybody in India believed that I have a mental problem and I'm, like, looking at my mom's generation, women, all the women in my mom's generation who accepted and believed, that, say, I have a mental problem because I don't earn.
[00:48:07]
I did. “Did you earn, mom?” I asked my mom. Like, “How much did you earn? So how much mental problem do you have? Because being a housewife, can somebody come up and tell, because she's a housewife, she's, she has a mental problem.” So basically, he didn't use the word “housewife”. He only said, “She sits at home and she doesn't go and find a job or she doesn't earn.” So basically, she had to pay that person who decided not to, who decided to influence my ex against me making any kind of income. Had a problem because he would say, um, basically he was saying that, “She's a housewife,” without calling me a housewife and, “She has a mental problem.” So all housewives have a mental problem because they don’t earn? So take the children away. Put them in a daycare. Pay $1500 per month, pay $2000 per child per month. And harass the mother then because she's not finding a job. Go find a job. But I want to take care of my children! Who the hell are you to decide what I should be doing? “No, she's not finding a job. That means she has mental problem.” Yeah, I have a mental problem. Big deal. I got a free house. Because you can't fight the society when they have decided that they want you, they want to prove your own. If the problem was, “If she does it our way, other women will also start wanting to do that. So let her not do it so that our women also sit quiet.” So, I didn't expect such, such a bad behavior of, of Indians in America. I thought it's, it's better. People have moved on. But no. They are, um, um, they have still been the same kind of people all day. I mean, they have been the kind, as I told you last time, first generation, rich. They are the same kind of people, they have become the same kind of people here in America for, uh, um, that they have complained of people in, back in home. In India. That rich people are like this, and rich people are like that. When they came to America, they have become the same kind of people! There's no difference. But I asked my grandfather, like, “Have you done such a thing to you, any or any other women or any other family?” He said, “We are busy making money. We don't have time controlling somebody else's, uh, women, and somebody else's children.” And I asked a friend of mine, he says, “If you want to believe that, [Redacted], that there's so much loneliness in becoming rich, you want more rich people around you. There's nobody to talk to. There's nobody who can understand you. There's nobody who can share this common views with you. You want more rich people around you, so you don't want to not have, not want anybody else be rich. You want people to be rich, because it's too much loneliness here.” So, and then I see these people who want to show that they are rich, but they don't know how to behave. So I'm like, okay. I told my dad. I mean, “Dad, you trusted this man. I– you raised me for twenty-four years and you question your upbringing, just because this man said something about your child? How did you keep quiet? Why did you keep quiet?” I said.
[00:51:53]
My grandfather who had, uh, probably– I never got to meet him, uh, um, the last six to twelve months before he died. But he felt embarrassed by the behaviors of my ex-husband and his family, and these all American extended family members that have moved here. They went and told such weird things about me. Like, why did this happen? It didn't happen, it didn't happen in front of me. So why? Why are my question to my grandfather was, “You got upset. You trusted him. Why did you not– when he was talking about him, there was a phone I gave you. I gifted you one phone. You could just call me and say, ‘Hey, this man is here. He's saying this about you. I want your side of the story.’” Never happened. Never happened. Right? Now, my grandmother is dead. My grandmother is dead. Embarrassed, um, um, about false stories that this one man has told about me to my own family members. Reality is, he himself came here because, and he is rich, because his gran– his father-in-law gave him the money. He's not rich. All the money is from his father-in-law. So, um, like, so. And you have your own money. People don't behave like that. I mean, people have other things to do and think about other things. So, and, um, let's go back to Wall Street. This is our families too much, all because, [inaudible] Yeah. So this lady called, called me, um, uh, and she asked me my manager's name. So there was an Indian soap opera hap– happening behind my back. There was an, um, what is it called? There was a Mission Impossible and there was a James Bond movie, everything happening at the same time. Somewhere, something was conspiring against me. So, um, uh, I had [Redacted]– I delivered [Redacted]. Um, and I don't know that he was supposed to be first. The due date was [redacted], which got extend to, moved to the eighth. I don't know how that happens, but when the eighth moved on, too, and [redacted]. So, he basically, for me he was at least 10-11 days late. And, uh. Um, um, he was big. Twenty-one inches tall, uh, 8.9 or 9.8 something like five pounds baby and, um, I couldn’t push him out and I fainted. I completely failed and I know I slept. My doctor didn't wake me up. And she was like, let her sleep.
[00:55:08]
And then I'm like, “Call the doctor. I need to discuss my options. There is no way I'm pushing this anymore.” And then she– she started laughing at me. I had a relationship with her that she could scold me, laugh at me, yell at me, uh, spank me, and, uh, so she was, um, she actually yelled at me and she said, “You were pushing. I'm not– there’s no options for you. There are no options for you.” And I'm, so, finally, she had to use that, what is it called. There is a fork kind of a thing that they pulled the baby out, so she used that when I saw that mark on my, my child's head, you won’t believe how pissed I was with the doctor. Like, “How dare you give my child this?” Because it was it, it has a small needle and it makes a hole inside your head. Baby's head, and then it has a, it has. I'm like, “Why would you harm my child?” I was really mad at her. So, I was ready for a C-section. I said, “Harm me, whatever needs to be done, do to it to me, not to the child.” When she, uh, I had no options to discuss. So. He was fun. He, he, um, him and I were most of the time because my ex was traveling for work at least four to six days a week, right? Go on four to five days a week. Yeah, uh, hardly would come for one or two nights home. So it was fun. I mean, uh, my mom was there for the first couple of weeks my, uh, for the delivery. I didn't wanted her because of all the memories I had. And I was like, “I don't want her, I don't want to associate my delivery, I want to beautiful memories connected with it.” But she came, we argued, we had fights.
[00:57:06]
I had. Uh, uh, um, they want to do it their way. They don't want to listen. They don't want to understand. Every, they are always right. The new generation is always wrong. Um, um, so, um, I was sitting. I– I couldn't sleep one night. I woke up early, like at six o'clock I, uh, [alarm rings, inaudible alarm speaks]. Um, so, um, um, um, um, um, um. I was sitting with my dad one day and I was, um, um, and I was couldn't sleep. I, best way, Raj– like six o'clock, change his diaper, put him to bed and my dad and I woke up and instead of going back to sleep. So six o'clock was not too, too late. So we woke up, I made some tea and breakfast for my dad and we were sitting on the patio, um, chatting and that was the first time ever my dad spoke about his mom. First time ever. I was in tears knowing how she died and what happened and what his memories were. Um, according to him, he lost her, his mom, when he was eight years old. But my younger uncle says he lost the– he– they lost their mother when my dad was in eighth grade and not eight years old. So there's a mismatch there, but whatever. So he was telling me how things happened. How would they? There was no doctor and there there was no diagnosis and whatever, so. So, I was in tears, and my mom came and she was just, didn't like it. She was always like that kind of a person, that, “I should be the person speaking. No, no, no two people in the family can speak to each other directly.” So if I have to speak to my sister, I had to tell my mom. My mom would tell my sister. If my dad has to speak to me, my dad has to tell my mom. My dad, my mom will come and tell me. So, my mom has always been this kind of person at home. I didn’t wanted her at my delivery, I said. So they reached out to my ex-husband directly and, uh, convinced him. That they want to come for the delivery, because it's a– it's a natural thing that all, our daughters' first delivery. It’s the parents’ responsibility and they have to do it culturally, religiously. And because you wanted the child to be born in America, the best option is that we come to America. So, that's how they came for the delivery. And then they convinced me after they convinced him, so I said that the– the documents, the first time, their visa was rejected. I was happy. [laughs] But they didn't tell me the second time. And probably, my dad said to me, “Did– are you sure you did not tell the embassy not to give?” I said, “I don't have the connections or influence to tell the embassy not to give the visa.”
[01:00:09]
So the second time, what they did, without telling me, they went to an, um, agent and through an agent they got their visa approved. You wouldn’t believe how sad I was. So I mean, I'm like, now they're coming back. I'm like. I have already had done, was done with the experience with my in-laws in 2007, and now I said, now they are coming 2008 I said, this summer gone, that summer gone, so, um, but it, uh, so they came. I ate a lot of food, more home-cooked food. I put on a lot of weight. And then obviously the way we had to pick up become big. So in the last two weeks, I put on a lot of weight. The baby also gained a lot of weight in the last two weeks because my mom was home when she was cooking, right. But she, I love what she cooks. She cooks delicious. I have no problems with that. It's just that her interference and everything. I mean, so. But the baby was, there was an eclipse. And my– my dad's first cousin, who lives in Ohio, he is a doctor, um, and her husband is a pediatrician. So she– she says on– her and I had already gotten, become friends over the phone. We never met in America, but we started talking. She would call me. I would call her. So she decided that she wanted to be in the delivery room. So she said, “Oh, I have bought my tickets, come and pick me up.” I said. “Okay”. So, now she's home. My mom and dad is home. Are probably, yeah, Dad was home. So, and now we are beyond the due date, right? And she says, “Are you going to even try?” I said “Yes! I mean, we are past seven days, right?” And I said, “I don't mind if it happens today, but I don't want to happen it on Friday and Saturday.” And she’s looking at what's that, so I said, “It's an eclipse and I don't want child to be born during an eclipse.” So she, so she said, “Oh let's induce you now then. So I, I'm not staying here.” Because she had a return tickets. So I'm like, “You can’t be forcing of me, right?” So we are arguing that, she said, “I'm the doctor.” I said, “She's telling me don't delay and I'm saying I want, I don't mind going on this, so what's–” So I had a book, Indian book that says, um, naturally inducing for pregnancy is castor oil. So you drink, gulp, gulp down half a bottle of– of castor oil. It's a normal thing. Doctors do it. And you induce the baby. So I'm like, she says, “You're not doing this.” I said, “I'm not doing their way.” So we, both of them. She said she– she's like, “I didn't know girls do, they are so adamant.” I said, so I'm like, “Okay, but I don't want to go, uh, take the injection and whatever that way is, is of inducing.”
[01:03:13]
So, she leaves after, uh, eight days, unhappily that the baby, uh, is not delivered yet. And I'm like, okay, now one more day to go. I don't want him to be on today, Friday. I don't want to, I don't want him coming Saturday. And I'm like, you're trying my breathing techniques, you know, trying everything to stay calm. And so, um, um. So, she's not happy. My dad is not happy. My sister went away without seeing the baby. I said, “That's okay, don't worry, I'm not going, I'm not taking those injections and whatever those are.” So, Sat– Saturday goes and he's not here yet. Sunday, I'm like huge urge of eating South Indian food. I want to eat uttapam, appam, sambar, dosa, and all those things. So we go out for dinner on Sat– Sunday. And we eat all South Indian delicacies. And three o'clock, four o’clock-ish, I'm in pain Monday morning. I think, I don't even remember what time he was born. But, uh, uh, Sat– Saturday and even today my child eats only South Indian. I'm like, I don't know where he got it from but that's how he got it from. I mean, after he would not choose to eat the Mahrashin food or Indian food, anything other, Indian food. He will only eat the South Indian food if the choice be. Um, um, so, and [Redacted] was born at home. And with [Redacted], there was a lot of abuse during the pregnancy between me, with the, I don't know if I told you. Did I mention I was homeless? I was living in the car, had to fight with the key thing. He came from the kitchen, from the, from the window and, uh, we had a fight about the key, so, so that key thing ended up that I went into. I stayed in the car for a couple of weeks, couple of days and before that I was, um, in an women's hostel. Uh, abused, I was at Women's Hospital for a couple of months, maybe two or three months. Um, uh, just like women's, working women's hostel. And I just said, “I need a bed. I don't care.” So, so with [Redacted] I like, I'm not going to hospital. I told doctor, I said, “I don't think I can make it.” I had that fear that something bad would happen to me or the baby if I went to the hospital, and so I decided to deliver the baby at home. That broke everything. He was not happy. Um, and, uh, with her I was in, uh, I was in London for three, two and a half months. As soon as I came back, I was, I conceived her. So, I had seen a few mothers delivered at home. It's a common thing in London, that everyone delivers it at home. So I had, so I was like, “Okay, it's a normal thing.” So I assumed that it's a normal thing and it's an okay thing, to deliver a baby at home.
[01:06:25]
So I started looking for a doula and I started looking for a midwife. And in the seventh month, I decided I'm not going to the hospital, I'm delivering at home. He was already away, he was never home, right? So it was my choice. And I said, “I'm kicking you out. If you try to interfere or if you try to change, uh, my opinion, my decision, um, I'm kicking you out of the house.” So when, the labor, I went into labor in July of 2012 with [Redacted]. We called the midwife that, uh, her contractions have started, and this is the base of, so, before the midwife came, there was a discussion between him and I. “Do you want me to stay, or should I leave?” It was so bad, it was already so bad. Um, I, probably, something I thought today. I think I should not have let him stay. Because now today, because, only because I don't have the custody of the children. But that day, I let him stay and he was the first person to hold the baby. Um, um, but he's not thankful for it. He's not grateful for it. Um, um, uh, because he– he is okay to take the children away from the mother, so I said, “It's okay, let him keep the children.” So, um, with that, uh. This, uh. This is how I ended up being homeless, that I have a mental problem because I'm housewife and without calling me a housewife. Uh. It was only said that I have a mental problem because I stay home. I chose to stay home even after having such a huge degree, or after having such a high experience or such a– a big experience in the industry. So that's why I have a mental problem. Um, so I'm like, my mom also has a mental problem because she is economics graduate, honors graduate and she decided to stay home? Um, uh, my uncle's wife, who is a BAC graduate, honors student in chemistry– not quite sure what she, I think she did one chemistry, but even she has a mental problem because she stayed home and she chose to be a housewife and raise three children?
[01:09:05]
So I’m also the same category because I– I also have a degree and I have a work experience and I decided to stay home for my children, so we all have mental problems just because we are off in the eyes of this one man who goes around telling that housewives have mental problem because they stay home? And he's the man who is living off his father-in-law’s money, right? So, um, so it's okay. So, I have a mental problem. So, big deal if I choose to be, just, just to be a housewife. Generations and generations of generations of women have chosen to stay home to take care of the children. You're calling each one of them who has a mental problem just because they stayed home to take care of their children. I mean, financially, it didn't make sense for me because there was only one person earning. There was, um, and I was not getting a job. It’s not that I was not looking for a job. I had recruiters telling me, “Oh, looking at resume, I will lose my job if I hire you.” So, I had a different problem. So, I had in my, today's resume I hide my work experience from Chase. I don't show that. Because if I show it, I don't get calls for interview. So, um. [pause] Um. So, yeah, I have a mental problem because I chose to be a stay home mom. The other things came later. Other things came later, voices, images came later, um, but it came as, not as a mental problem, but as clairvoyance because I was working on becoming a yoga instructor, because I was working, uh, to get my Reiki, uh, healing attunements and with all this it naturally comes. You start seeing things that are not visible to normal eyes. Yeah, I listen to dead people. I list– you won't believe. I must have sent at least more than 500 emails listening to these dead people. I don't call that as, uh, as mania or schizophrenic disorders. For me, that's clairvoyance. Whatever you’d like to call it, my– it's a– it's a choice. I mean, I– I see JFK twenty-four hours a day. If you want to call that schizophrenia, you can call it schizophrenia, but I see him twenty-four hours. So, um, I see my grandparents, I hear, hear, I hear them. And, um, when I was in India, I would say, I don't know, I think I had mentioned this to you earlier, I would listen and hear, uh, the, um, the, um, I would see to, I would hear those people, the soldiers dead in the battlefield, because the city and town I come from, and the city and town where mom comes from, uh, are the, what is it called? Are the capitals of the kings.
[01:12:21]
So there are women there, so I would see and hear them. Um, so when I came here, the biggest, uh, uh, the most people I saw was the people who died in 9/11. JFK, um, what is his name. President Lincoln? These are the people I started seeing when I came here. Um, so yeah, I'm just giving you very few names. It's not like Princess Diana. So, I, you name them and I see them. So, um, I, but, apart from these, there are voices of my family members that started coming. Like, one family members are sitting in India somewhere, but I hear some voices here and that is annoying. Sometimes I feel my voice controlled, like, from India. I don’t like that. Sometimes I feel them overpowering, the voices physically overpowering and sometimes harming me. And this all started happening. I don't know when, but I believe it started happening um, with my, um, with my daughter's pregnancy. Maybe I overdid yoga. Maybe I overdid meditation, I don't know. Uh, but it started then and, um, with that, um, a lot of, um, other voices started coming. Like, voices from my neighbors, my school friends, colleagues at work, um, as if somebody's watching me, somebody wants to communicate with me, um, somebody's trying to protect me, somebody's trying to harm me, somebody's trying to pull me, somebody's trying to push me. You know? There are all kinds of experiences, so, um, um, uh, I remember I wrote a poem and there was somebody dead. I don't know who that person is, but he was dictating me something. Um, and I put a belief that voices are true. So I learned, I was trying to ignore and in 2015, uh, ‘16 or ‘17. One of the two. I want to believe ‘17 because, yeah, 2017. I wrote a poem just because those voices were dictating and wanted me to write the poem, and I was not willing to accept that these voices are real.
[01:14:59]
Um, they made me sit in the chair for three long days, without moving for anything. Opening the door. Going to the restroom. Going to the kitchen. No. I was bounded to do, um, I was bonded to– to that chair for three long days till the time I wrote down the poem that they were dictating me to write down. I, only after finished writing that poem, that freeze became unfreeze. It happens even today. There's just too many things. Too many, um, um, people, too many people in the dead. Um, uh, or even in the living also, and sometimes these voices have, uh, what is it called? Um, have control. Have control. Um, I can feel somebody's pinching me, somebody's injecting an injection in me. I don't know. Uh, I can feel subtle taps. So, yeah, it's become very sensitive, very sensitive. Um, so, this, um, when I came back from India in 2018, I said, um, uh, with all the experience of the homelessness, Jason got me here. Um. The experiences here has been good and not good. If you would have asked, if we would have finished with this interview like six weeks ago, I would have had a different experience to share with you. But something happened in these six weeks, last, past six weeks, that I want to share it– the same experience, different. As I said, in America, everybody's a correction officer. You cannot, I don't know if they themselves ever make mistakes or not, but they are the first ones to point out somebody else's mistakes. So, um, um, with the maintenance, um, I had some maintenance requests and, um, instead of catering to the maintenance request. Spelling mistakes, grammatical mistakes. What is this called, the floor, it should not be called carpet which has to be called vinyl only. So, so everything had to be so perfectly fine. But the maintenance issues are not catered to. But there is an English teaching class is happening. Correction, correction, um, um, correction work happening. This is called this. This is not called this. This is called this. The button has to be switched on like this, not like that, so. Lot of things started happening. I had– I had ignored and taken it as a childish behavior, but it felt at one point, it feels like I'm looked upon as a child. When the other one, behaving like a child.
[01:18:11]
So, I kept ignoring it. But at one point in time, I really lost it. These past two weeks, I lost it. I said, “All I requested, it was, the kitchen tap is leaking and I need it to be fixed.” Um, so it's been more than eight months back and forth, right? For that one maintenance request. So I said, “So, you don't know how to shut the tap off, so if it is bothering you so much, why don't you shut it off from the bottom after you're done using it?” So, I mean, you still, there this is the comeback. For me, in Hinduism religion, a leaking faucet, it means that you have an, um, um, it's a, um, it is a leak to your financial well-being. It's a leak to your health. So there is a drain, there is a drain somewhere to your finances, there is a drain to, somewhere to your health. So you don't keep a, you don't keep a, um, a leaking faucet in the house for a long time. If it is broken, you fix it immediately, but, um, there was an issue with the laundry. The laundry is not clean, and the meaning that the laundry machine has some of the– the washers have a rubber tube that connects the– the door to the machine. Actual machine, right? And it has mold in it, and I'm allergic, seriously allergic to mold. So, every time I wash my clothes. It has a stink, the stink, the molding smell sticks to the clothes, and instead of cleaning the clothes, it brings home mold, of which I used to, I used to clean it earlier, not every time. It's not practically possible, so I requested that whoever is maintaining the– the– the washers and dryers should be brought it– it should be brought to their notice so that even this section of the machine needs to be cleaned because they keep coming every three months, cleaning everything else. But they probably are forgetting or unaware that even this, this section of the machine needs to be cleaned. So, just, friendly reminder, just a request, genuine request that they should include this as part of this part of machine to clean, um, uh, when they come here for every quarterly month for maintenance. If you have a problem, go to a private, uh, laundromat. When this is– this is not a response of, all you are telling is, whoever is maintaining the machines to the company to clean this part of the machine also. So it was not just about me. It's about there are infants born here. There are– there are handicapped people who cannot drive or go anywhere. I'm speaking on everybody's behalf. Mold is not good for anybody.
[01:21:08]
You have a private laundry machine at home doing your laundry. You are committed to us that this place will give you a laundry access twenty-four hours. Well, all we’re expecting is that, give us a mold-free, free laundry, right? And you don't have to do it yourself, you just have to tell the maintenance company that, you guys are forgetting this part of the machine. Include this part of the machine in your quarterly cleaning. So, um, um. So, so, uh, so and I, I wrote what? Six. This is pod six. Instead of pod six I wrote pod E. So, the entire discussion of wanting to clean the laundry goes, set aside and, “You called it pod E and it's not pod E, it's pod six.” The whole discussion back and forth, “It's a word for E and pod 6.” So I said, “Okay, there is a problem with the machine and please take care of it.” Um, um. And then, let me see, or give another example. Okay, the staircase for example, there are staircase was not vacuumed for that one particular week. So, I said, “The staircase has not been vacuumed for that one particular week. She has been doing it everything regularly, but I see a lot of garbage and pieces of paper only this week, which is, probably she must have forgotten. She has not. Well, is everything okay?” So, so I said pod E. All we needed to know is okay, she's on vacation. She's not come, she's not well, she's away or, um, she, whatever the reasons. So thanks for letting us know. I'll take you to the– I'll speak to her. Why? It was unclean. So I took a picture of the staircase and I said, “See? It’s not vacuumed. This is not vacuumed this week.” Um. So the answer comes, “Oh, there is no pod E. There is only pod six.” End of discussion. So– so the whole con– discussion goes to, “This is pod six. This is not pod E.” So, the unclean staircase is not the– not the issue to be discussed. The issue to be discussed is, [Redacted] called it “E” instead of “six”. So this, this behavior has been happening for the whole twelve months, and I have been ignoring it. I said, “It's okay.” But I have seen people sit and cry outside for the same, similar reasons. Similar treatment by the similar person. And sometimes, like, we cannot have a conversation. I mean, this is not jail. We are in civilian life and we don't speak to each other, to each other in the civilian life like this.
[01:24:04]
So, um, it's crazy. I mean, you don't understand the love, respect that we give you. But he's, I mean, somebody, when people don't understand what respect is, it's not the weakness that I am not a weak person that I am giving you respect. If you cannot take respect, if you cannot understand, if you cannot define, differentiate what respect and disrespect is, I have to show you the dark end of the [unclear]. So I wrote a nasty e-mail with nasty words in it. Only one. And then the reply came, “You can’t be so unprofessional.” I said, so, so then I asked the question, “I sent this email with the intention for, personal intention, for, to see if you understand the difference.” So I said, “Do you see the difference between respectful and disrespectful emails I have been sending with one disrespectful email? You understand that I disrespected you, but with 100 respectful emails, you were never thankful that I’m respectful for you, but you are creating a ruckus on every email that I have sent you.” I really use very nasty words, for just to show her the dark side. Sometimes, I just don't want to deal with this AC unit. This button doesn't work, and you are the person who said, oh, “This is in the warranty period. If anything goes wrong, let us know immediately. We don't want to delay it any further because otherwise we'll lose the warranty period. So any issues with the AC, please let us know. Right before you came in, we just put this AC unit, before you moved in.” I said, “Okay. So if I tell them the response is, you don't know how to press the double button.” So, what happened to the warranty period? You spent three weeks teaching me how to press the button. This becomes very, then, it became very stressful. I was in the ER, I– for twenty-four hours just last Fri– Thursday. I came back because I– I couldn't take it. It was too much for me. And I just learned, my children have been removed from their house and I know– he has not informed me where the children are and I'm, the cops are in no position to find. I have to go to the court and have the court order where the children are. Um, I mean, there's just too much on my plate. And then somebody's telling you how to press a button or how to shut a knob as a 40 year old woman never knows how to shut a knob, shut off– switch off the tap. I mean, it's annoying. Others don't talk to each other like this, I mean, we have to remember that, understand. We all are adults. We are all in civilian life. Um, and it's just, I told, I just sent you a letter saying that the knob is leaking. I want it fixed. So a closing sentence in a professional letter, you have a closing sentence. Please look into the matter and the earliest or waiting in anticipation, whatever you're closing line could be anything, right? So, she has a problem with the closing line. “Please take a look so, there is a broken, broken tab in the kitchen.” You cannot have a closing sentence in your e-mail saying “please take a look into the matter.” If I write, you know, closing sentence, “please look into the matter as the earliest.” She has ego problem. You don't– you need– you don't need to tell me what I need to do. So you cannot have a professionally written letter with the closing sentence, “Please look into the matter.” Your letter only has, your e-mail to her has to say, “Oh there is a broken tap, a leaking tap in the kitchen.” That's it. You cannot say, “Please look into the matter.” “You don't tell me what to do.” You know, you're going to. So, it's annoying to get works done, work done. [man talking in background, inaudible] You’re not, you’re not my English teacher, you're not my correctionl officer, you are the maintenance manager and we are just telling you the maintenance issues. Simple things. If– if this interview was done, finished six weeks ago, I would not have brought this up. Never, because it's– I didn't want it to bring it up. [man talking in background, inaudible] But.
[01:28:35]
[End of Recording Two]
[Beginning of Recording Three]
[00:00:00]
So yeah, so it's. Communication is little tough. Um. When you try and when you're intending to. Just request the maintenance request and people are trying to find grammatical errors in the email that you sent. I mean, even I studied from British teachers right English. So I know my English has a British influence. It's not perfectly American English. But that's not the point. The tap is called tap and he hears a leak. That– that should give you an idea of what I'm trying to request. So. That should get the job done. I mean, it's so– when I– when Jason shared that there is this is the only place that currently has an apartment available, I was like, no, I don't want to come here because I wasn't sure what I wanted, but I was just saying no to everything at that point of time. And he said, you know, nothing about America and just let me help you. So at one point of time I was accepting what he was offering, but I was also giving him a hard time, letting me, letting him help me. And at one point he brought me here. They showed me apartment 118. And when I looked at everything, I said okay. And he said the next two to three months there is nothing opening up in Middlesex County. This, I’m sure, he has the access to everything. So. I said okay, so when it was time to move they moved me in 128 instead of 118. They said 118 is not ready yet. The problem with me was the name of the street to drive the attorney of ex-husband. Can't. I think his last name was Snyder or he worked for a firm called Snyder. That was a trigger for me. Another thing was I was happy to bring in 118 because it's [redacted]. I'm not. I was not happy being in 28 because it was [redacted], so. First couple of months I was not happy. I was like you– you look at the bedroom, it’s– it’s still not ready to move in. Because there was some– some kind of unhappiness or not unwillingness to– to accept this apartment. And I've tried to make it happen. I mean, trying to put things together. If you remember you came here on the first time you were you– I'm sure you must remember the messy living room. I was trying to put things together.
[00:03:06]
So, um, so I didn't want it to be associated with the words Snyder. Even I don't eat that snacks from Snyder, whatever that is, I'll just keep it on the side because it's– it's annoying when any legal– legal lawyers telling her client to help with the wife killed or molested only to take giving a legal advice right. Giving a legal advice that I'm so– I'm so influential that I can take care of you and protect you in any given condition. Just don't get her pregnant. Do whatever you want just because you don't. You want, don't want to be the alimony just to avoid the alimony, right?
[sneezes]
Bless you. So, um, that name was, like, annoying. And winding up staying here after being homeless because of them. Um. I don't know what Karma is up to, but I was really not happy. So now I'm trying to put my apartment together and I'm home. The other thing is, every time I put my apartment together, I have to leave. Last time I put my apartment together in 2017, I was gone for six months and when I came back there was no apartment and it was all ducked into the storage, so I had that fear. Should I tidy up my apartment or just leave it messy? Uh, so the same thing happened when I had a house in Secaucus when at the moment I tied it up, it had to be emptied and bought a new house. So I'm like, I don't want to keep doing it. Since I got married to this person, I don't know what about to moving apartments and not being able with my mom and dad. I moved only two houses at the– First total house where I was born. I was there for three and a half, four years and then the rest of my life with a bunch of the age of 24. I took the day I got married. I lived in with them in the second. That's the only two houses I had with him. I must have changed one to at least seven to eight houses at most. And there's, uh, I don't know where it's coming from. Why I just have to change my last name. It's coming from the last name, probably. So I'm ready to do everything to settle down. And it's– it's making me go places. So I'm very scared right now not- I have that superstitious belief that if I put my apartment together I will have to vacate and empty it and go someplace else. So I'm taking my own sweet time, delaying messing it up and cleaning it up. So that I get to stay a little longer. I could be wrong, but it has been happening. Um. So, um.
[00:06:02]
Another incident when I moved here happened was I got it right. I don't have a car and I didn’t have a lot of money. Uber would cost like me fifteen or seventeen dollars, just one way. So there is a friend that I have, I have a couple of friends that are– that are have in this complex that would– I would buy a ride from there like just buy me the gas and I'll take you wherever you want to. So that works out or if you are going let me know I'll come with you so that it's easy right, I'll share the gas. So one day I ran out of toilet paper. I mean, I had no toilet paper if I had to go in the middle of the night, forget, I couldn't wait for next day morning. And I don't know how that happened. It never happens. It's somehow I must have forgotten. But no, no, no, Dollar Tree and Walmart were out of toilet papers for a couple of days. And I went twice. I went to two or three different Dollar Trees, and I went to Walmart and there was no toilet paper. I mean, there was, I didn't want– I didn't have a lot of money to buy the expensive one. I was looking for the cheaper ones. So. So that's how I demonstrated her paper and so I asked one of my friends here who lives here who has a car saying can you take me to the Dollar Tree, uh, urgently? And he said okay so I want and the Levant was I given five or ten dollars of gas money, $5.55 or $7.00. And he take me to the– to the Dollar Tree. He brings me back and he waits till I'm done. So it was. Or he does his own shopping. So he– he took me there. When we came back, there was another car trying to get into the complex right in front of us and his behavior changed. His face expressions changed, and I didn't realize whose card was in front of us, so it looked like they had some issues in the past. And he was not happy to see the guard in front of him. So I'd like from he said, “Oh, okay, today I will not help you pick up your bags,” because he knows I have a herniated disk, just because sometimes he helps me pick up the bags. And I said it's not a lot of heavy stuff, it's just all the lights don't work. He said I'll just walk you, I won't help you with the bags. So he took it over. So I started. I was sitting the car but in his car he didn't even get out and cursing in front of in– in front part came out and started hanging with bullet. Yelling looking at me I thought I'm like there is enough gap in between the two cars. I thought she is yelling at because there was maybe there was he hit– better hit her car from the back on the– couldn't figure it out for a long time or what she is yelling at. So he goes out and he starts calling 911. And. She, uh, she pushes her– throws his phone on the– on the ground, street, and I'm trying to get out of the car and I'm trying to figure what is happening here.
[00:09:19]
And supposedly they had some relationship and she's yelling at me that he is using you. Was using me to make her jealous to get back to her. I didn't say it was justified or right. Right only I needed toilet papers. There is no other contract between both, but there's no other relation on us understanding between us. She was– and then her boyfriend supposedly came out of the car, was sitting on the passenger's front and he says he's calling 911 if they come here. You will be gone because you're under influence, she said, “Oh no, I had only one shot. Oh no, maybe two. Oh, no way. Three.” She was, she had at least three or more shots and she was on the driver side, came from somewhere far away, and she was– she was entering the complex. So I’m like, “You're good friends, why are you behaving like that?” I said. And if I do, I mean I do. Everybody at this apartment has some kind of an element on others and. When you know somebody's dying. You don't want to get into such kind of relationships, right? So I mean. Well, there’s my dad wanting me– wanting to introduce me to somebody that somebody else interested me. I mean, I'm running away from all these options. I'm running away and hiding from such options. And the last thing I want to do is find somebody here. And I understand how to maintain friends, so doesn't matter what kind of– what gender they are, but there has to be a respectable distance. When friends comes, you don't, um, um, When it comes to be making friends, I can make friends of any age group and any gender and. And they will be my lifelong friends. They're there. Doesn't have to be anything beyond it. And I know how to do it very well. I don't have to go and teach her or explain who I am and what I am, but the way she was behaving, I'm like, okay, listen up. Time to tell her. Good. That is not. It was just an exchange of five dollars. He was giving me a ride that was not. There's nothing else. So he calls the cops. He had– She had already dropped his phone, started hitting on the in his car and few other women came from came in. Oh came out to smoke and so– So what was happening? So they were telling her don't over react, she was high. So they're trying to tell her. If the cops come, you will lose the custody of your children because everything will record and you have to go to hearing for your children's custody. I think the boyfriend threatened him not to file a case, so he calls the cops and says, oh, we don't want to do anything. It was a mistake. I don't want to take any action. It was a misunderstanding or something. And these women actually pulled her and took her into the apartment. It was all about fifteen, twenty minutes melodrama. And then I'm trying to tell her so she has that anger against me, I said. I'm only telling her it's a five minute. If I've told exchange that I pay him five dollars that he take gives me a ride, there's nothing beyond it. But she has that anger against me, even to me. And. Um, so. She was a– Management saying such a thing happened. Oh. Yeah. I just want to let you know because we decided that because yeah, the guy who gave me the left and both of us decided not to press any charges because of her children's custody. We don't want them to have to. You get any negative remarks, right? So we try to protect her. But she was nasty, so she was. It's not, uh, disrespectful and. She once came to the apartment telling me the management trusts my side of the story. So ignored for–I did see anything that she came up here and said that. Oh. So when all these things started happening and when our verbal stuff, when with the manner with maintenance issues, this indicate that. Try to be. A bridge of communication between both of us. Yeah, the phone call greeting and then I don't think this issue because even on the front or repeatedly I was being told that how I was wrong. I have been writing saying go use a private laundry instead of fixing the problem in the laundry. So everything I said, I was wrong. I mean, I said the other issue with the– the wrong project with you. What's your, what's– what's your locker downstairs?
[00:14:58]
Did the previous word. I think the lock is loose. Either I need a new key or I need to fix the lock. You don't know how to use it. You show me the way how to use it, so everything is always. I don't know how to do it. I am. I'm using it in a different fashion. I'm doing it wrong. So. At one point I just lost my car and I took these are my issues. I have been ignoring it doesn't mean I don't understand. So I mentioned this and instrument that bulk came upstairs and this is what you told me about what you went into. And then she said no, I never even went and told her blah blah blah blah blah. So then. Next week day is called. Let's bring it on. The man she went in ordered the management already went into her. She saying that she did not. She did again with the. So. I'm not here to fight. Somebody doesn't want any. So keeping my– Of my life very small. Right. I don't want to make it bigger. I don't want to be a celebrity of any kind. So it was. But. Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself. Even if you're spelling is wrong in America, it's corrected. So and even if there is no word in the English Dictionary in America it it is smart of Indian dictionary. So you want to be accepting of if she writes something. If I don't understand I will ask what does that mean? Or I will just Google it. What it means when I don't get into verbal spat of “This is wrong.” This is not how it is said and the whole idea is just to leaking tap, you know. Are you there twenty email exchanges? About how I am wrong and how I wrote to the email incorrectly and how would the mistakes of the email with the dark is still leaking, it's not fixed. It's been more eight months now. So. So. I had a problem. It was fought behind that operation, under the refrigerator, under the cooking range, behind the cooking range. I mean when you move into a new apartment you expect that it all is cleaned. So I have been asking that, you know, if you did not clean it because there were ants and other creatures crawling from go down beneath. And then I could realize that there's food on underneath, right? And I dropped probably something. So.
[00:18:16]
So I was– I would have been behind them to help me just move their appliances. I will clean it and then you move it back. That also took more than six months, almost eight months. I wanted it to be clean for last year's Diwali. It got cleaned for this year's Diwali. In India, we need to do spiritual cleanings or religious cleaning of the entire household in a certain manner for certain festivals before a certain date or time. And I was expecting that when I moved in the last year, it should have been done last year. I'll do it this week, I'll do it next week. And then I had to actually write emails saying that I needed to done before this time. Because. Sometime explaining because helps. So. That's when I got it done before this year. So things, um, sometimes. People don't think your requirements or your requests are reported are time sensitive, but for us we know why that it is. So I learned it that explaining because hopes so I started explaining in my emails why– why I wanted to start like there is a leaking table because I wanted to fix not just because it is leaking, but also because. My religion says it's– It doesn't sign of leaking financials or leaking health issues, right? So it will simply just throw like. Which is true in my– in my– my situation, like, well, health institute reading or keeps fluctuating or or there's no finances coming in. So I had a job offer and I– did I say that I was studying to– studying for the engine life insurance exams, those licenses. And then I was– Dave refused– I've worked with them for like three months, probably try to get on board. I did. I only had offered, I had not clear my background, no fingerprint was cleared, and. So, uh, then that's for the background. Uh, uh, I said. There is a, there is an– I haven't paid my child– on child custody for, what, fifty weeks? Fifty months, probably. Something close to that. So something close to $39,000 or $40,000 of unpaid child support. So I said he owes me alimony and the child support to the supposed to be deducted from so I get the balance. They were not willing to accept that as an answer. So there is decided not to continue with the optimal– the job prospect that they had for me. So now I'm back to square one because last six– last four months I was working towards getting my license and study and whatever they were. Couldn't keep up with it because I was like I don't know, I don't work in the banking industry. If you don't clear fingerprint and background there is, there's– there's no nobody who is going to give me any licenses.
[00:21:41]
And they– they just were adamant that I needed a court order stating how much add years I have it. There is no court order that says any areas they're going to court orders. One core daughter that says that I should be paying mother should be paying. The father's ex-wife. Clear out of. For child– towards child custody and then there was another court orders that was saying that– stating that mother's request to cancel the childcare is rejected or refused by the court because I had requested to cancel the child support for financial hardship and the state government. I mean, your tradition goes child support to the parent of primary residence if the defendant, or if the– the– the other parent is not able to give child support so you just apply to the state, and they– if you get approved they will– you get the chance to quote from the state. So all I said was I'm not in a position to pay the child support, just have the father of life to the state and let him be approved and get. Statement there so. So even that request was rejected. So I mean, I don't have anything else. I don't have money to pay him. If he pays me, I'll just give him the– his share and I will. I will he gets a chance support so he doesn't want to do that I can do that he– the he– he was– we were looking that he, what is it called, there was the restraining order– is contingent to that it's a father has temporary custody of temporary full custody of the children and contingency is they have to complete psychological evaluation. My evaluation is done. He's not willing to cooperate with his evaluation, and he's not willing to bring the children to the court appointed, court requested or court ordered psychological evaluation. So now he's gone missing from the Edison House. I don't know where he is with the children. Um. And then I called the state police. They said we cannot do anything.
[00:23:57]
You'll have to go to the court and let the court order. I call the Edison police. They said they are not there. We went for the well-being check and they are not home, and we were told that the family moved a couple of months ago, so. I don't know what the situation is. He has not communicated where he moved with the children. He went and met my phone with that family back in India and with the patriarchal family system. The men– in men– in my family want to support him. Likewise, women in their life will go out of control. So to keep the control they want to support men, not women, because I have the women out of control and the woman out of control. So. So my father doesn't want to tell me what decision they had. My father doesn't want to share what the– I requested that the entire discussion with him be recorded. Our father doesn't want to share the recording with me. Thank you. He doesn't want me to ask for my father, doesn't want me to ask, go to the court asking for my share of alimony, my share of 401K, my share of sale of, sale of profit from the sale of marital property in the US. And they want to support him with everything, give it to him everything. So the upper– of the house and in India that we was two-bedroom apartment was basically a gift from my dad to me. He was working for the builder. He was the head of department. Thank God for the builder who was building that complex. He got an employee discount, he– I was and without asking me he registered with that and I said that. I don't know where this builder reserve but else is that how come you don't know him? You've been to the office so many times it's my dryer so I said okay then I would have no problems, so he said it was supposed to be brought in my name. So that my husband should not feel left out and bad, my dad added his name. My dad paid the down payment. And– and I said, “Okay dad, how did you handle listening as the primary?” Secondly, if it wasn't. I said, “Okay, you're gifting it to your document. Have you made any notes, written it down anywhere that you're giving it as a gift to your daughter?” Between husband, so now I was an outsider to the relationship of the father-in-law and my son-in-law. And where do I exit? I was not there. You would not be related to each other. And then we so he, uh, he would we would send some $100 or $500 per month to India to take care of the– my father had made the payment towards the down payment and he painted the entire parking. You have to buy the car park separate. It doesn't come. Everybody has a car in India. So if you don't want a car parking, so if you don't have a car, you don't need to buy, you don't pay attention. So if you have cars, depending on how many cars you want you– you buy that car parking space and then that's yours, right?
[00:27:19]
So we want to go for this please. We paid for it. And then? Talk about divorce. For free, the whole apartment was given to him. My dad was being he would have said, oh we are new young family become based on much. We cannot pay that much. So what my dad would do is he would take whatever money him and I would transfer to India for the EMI and the balance. And at that one of time what he had felt he had in the tenant and he instead of giving a residential family, he gave it to a organization, the apartment. So it was like an office. It was an office and it was an, oh, workspace and then hope for people who lived there was there was a court, but caught. And they had an office there and they had two bedrooms for the managers. Visiting would come and take a look at the work, right? So there was one person at the desk, that's it. There was nobody, no other employees. They were getting the commercial rate for that residential apartment was taking care of ninety percent of the EMI for the bank. And he stopped being my husband, stopped sending money, giving me this reason so my dad would be from his own market towards the Yemen that I said that if I just give me this and riding I'll take, I'll take this to the port. So he's not giving you the apartment, he's not giving me the profits from America. He's– he– the sale of American Property management property. He's keeping the whole entire apartment in the Indian– in India. That's a matter of property, I said. “You're giving him everything and you're okay with your daughter being homeless on the street in America for four years.” I mean, “You have to look at it how you– how– how I can stop interfering,” I said. “Don't get involved. If you cannot stop messing it up for me, stop getting involved. It's my personal matter. I'm 40 years old, I can handle it.” So. People still think, I mean. We went to see your man. What can I? What else can? So I asked. My dad was really furious this time. When I went to twenty, I'm not only asked my dad, and I asked my dad and the cousin at a brother. I said, “If Grandpa had not given you a home to live for free from his income. Where would you– would have to look at the entire family, like, your– was your salary enough for us to give this kind of likelihood that you gave us because of Grandpa? You've hit myself with respect. I'm going to hit you. I'm going to hurt your egos.”
[00:30:20]
Like not my dad would like, and my uncle was very upset. Being a woman, I asked such a question, but I was happy. Don't get involved in the divorce matters behind my back. You're helping him. If you don't want to help me, just don't help anybody. But you. You. My family's helping him. So if it's okay. So now here he has a– Confidence from my family that they have so much influence and control over me that I will not take up action against him. He went and threatened them, but my father said it once. But then he took his backwards because I'm sure my husband, I don't let her email to him. How dare you say this to her family? And then I'm sure he must have called my father. And my father now says no, like there's such a thing that will happen. Are you still in contact with my parent family and my family still when of the family still supporting and supporting him? The problem with my mother supporting him is, oh, he's– he's– he's the guy from my child. So, I said you don't play them off a mother. You are the movement from the top. You don't play the role of the father because you are the man. I said. Then you don't expect anything from me, and I'm not expecting anything from you. Everybody came from the same town, so it's not a big deal that I want to stand by the m– boy coming from the same town. Everybody’s mothers came from the same town. My mother came from the same town. My dad's mother came from the same town. My husband came from the same town. Everybody came from the same town. Because when we left Gujarat, everybody was given a house and property in the same town. Just one town. People then went abroad. For 400 years, it was like an Amish village. It was, it was just for us. Later, people started coming in. Later, people started building their own homes, or later, people were given access to do other things. But earlier, it was just us! So if you think that only people coming from this town should be supported and shouldn't run out of the town, should not be supported, I mean, we come from the same community. We come from the same parents.
[00:33:14]
We come from the same religion or caste or temple that we all go to. It's just that we were born in the city because our parents migrated to the city and left the village. But that doesn't mean that we city kids are bad and only those people. One is that village particular coming from that village are good. We're not each other's enemies. We're not each other’s competition. We have to learn to be each other's companions and, which we, our parents, messed it up for us. Just been orthodox. Row Village was a very orthodox village that we– we all came from. It's just that people learn to migrate. In the last seven years, seven, not even seventy years, I should say, in the late ‘60s, I believe. Yeah, ‘67, early seventies. So. [vacuuming in background] Somebody else. I think I was talking to Anna. No, women didn't work because. To Edward, traders, families, almost more than seventy percent people were treated families, right. And then when I was growing up, even then, during early, early childhood, you don't go out with money. You only go up, uh, tell whose family you have come from. So if I wanted to buy a candy or an ice cream, I go to the ice cream parlor and I said, oh, I'm coming from this family. So they would write down this family's childhood to come and eat an ice cream. The phone call would go to my grandfather and my grandmother would be. Even if my grandmother had to buy groceries, this is how it would be. Oh my God. Put it on my grandfather's name. This is. And I'm his wife. You don't carry money with you. Modern times. Or they would just say, oh, my wife needs this sarong. Can you send samples up? Thank you. So I remember I had to buy a dress and. And so my grandfather called three or four shops and see the salespeople from three or four shops for couple of dresses for my age group and then I don't choose one. So then, uh, then that is the guy from the same town who wanted me to earn my own livelihood and he didn't want it to pay my bills or didn't want to give me anything from his income. It was shocking for me. I didn't think it was going to be just like that one. I'll have his own credit card, I'll have a debit card, whatever, everything. So it was a– it was–, it was confusing and exactly what he wanted. And how I was supposed to be him, what kind of wife I was supposed to be, because I had seen people coming from that village for me was grandpa and grandma.
[00:36:21]
Has nothing like it. So it was every day was trying to figure out what does he exactly want, because sitting and talking was not an option. So anything like that on the first day of the– on the day of the salary, he would bring a stash of cash more. And one mom had figured out that argument. My– if my dad needed money for his bike maintenance, if he needed money for his gas money. Anything, or eat or eating outside. Anything you would have done my mom, “I need gas money.” You would have some money from my mom. She was the bank for the month. She managed everything, but she had to pay the groceries. She had to pay for the milkman, the paper, newspaper, whatever she had to do. She figured it out how to– So they, for me, it was trying to figure out how to do it because it was for me. I– I didn't. There was no communication. You don't sit and talk. You know, sit and talk. Problem is that. And the only thing was, okay, this is– this is how it is written in this magazine and this is the Harvard Review and this is. But I mean I said I don't know if it works or not, but my grandmother and grandfather to do well, that's why can't we just do it that way because your mom dated the same way and said so did your grandmother and grandmother. So if– why don't you write a article on your program, mother and grandfather in Harvard, whatever, whatever that issue was. What does that? What about that magazines were so you keep changing your lifestyle based on every new article that comes every fifteen days. There's too much for to keep changing every fifteen days. That's something new has to be done because some article was probably somewhere and you have an example of 400 years of tradition happening in your own home. Everybody was a fool for him. He– he went to an extent. I remember he once told me he didn't wanted his mom when he moved to the hostel, I mean dorm for his eleventh grade. And he would hide when his mom would come to see him, or he would argue or fight with his mom, show her away if she came to meet him. So he had problems with his mommy even then. I just became a reason to wrap up the relationship.
[00:39:05]
Because of her. I mean, he always had a problem with her. Like I won't say my relationship. My mom went down because of my husband. No, I think I always had a problem with my– So for him, the problem I broke the family. So when he. So, so when, um. But how to figure out the finances? Who does what expenses? Whose responsibility that who do cooking? Cleaning. Calendar or family calendar, everything was my responsibility. But once you start hiding and once you start lying, then it becomes a problem. Um, so one day, couple, couple of times. What happened was his extended family here was supposed to be my external family. Also if you see the family chart. But he came here first and he had a better relationship with them already. So these people, what they did was to not invite me, invited him. For whatever family gathering it was. And then on the day when he was there, I got a phone call. Oh, it was okay if you would have accompanied him as well. I said, but, uh, you, uh, I don't remember you mentioning it. I mean we assumed it was a boys night out kind of thing. It was a family together so I wasn't invited so. Back home in India they said, “Oh so you don't look so you have a problem.” They don't socialize together when you see your incomes and she does not accompany them. So this is how the families started. Of. Putting up, putting up fights and creating false. Creating false image about our relationships.
[00:41:15]
[End of Recording Three]
[Beginning of Recording Four]
[00:00:00]
That reminds me of his dorm life. Um. Like, I'm gonna tell you two things. So he has his friend. You remember I worked for one with one of his friends? In Mumbai, so when they were in college. There was a couple of things happened in, during– What I was told and why this was important is because it affected me. That's why I'm sharing. So he supposedly was too much into such pleasure and he was addicted to it. He would bunk his lectures. To be in, uh, to– to be under, uh, under the blanket even during the daytime. And it went to an extent where his friends in the– in the dorm. Give him a punishment or give him an alert that while he's sleeping, he has to put his right hands, both hands on the air, so he's sleeping with both hands up in the air. He cannot be a– he cannot be using his hands. So he was not happy. He felt bullied. And they would actually talk openly about it. In front of me. Even after the wedding. So what he started doing was because he was treated like that, he would make me on the first one or two months after the wedding, put my hand up in the air, just for no reason. So I'm sleeping with my hands up in the air. Because he wanted to get back to somebody. Because he was made to do it. So. I'm like. My– my mom wouldn't believe that such is true. Like why would you put your hands up like this into the air while sleeping? What? So, I said. His friends made him do it when he was in the dorm and he wants to get back to somebody and he's making me do it. Um. So I'm like, I don't understand his silence, psychology, what he's trying to achieve, but he will. It became too much of a nonsense day by day, what he would learn from all the outside world and what he would bring back and make the entire family do. Just because he learned it outside. It was it. I mean he– there was no grounding that he– he didn't belong to anywhere. He didn't belong to anyone. Particular thing he was all over. He would pick– pick up something from here, pick up something from there, I mean. He didn't even have the normal personality traits as what my ancestors would have. I was like a shocked to see him. Like I have four generations of people born in that– in the same village that I was connected to that I was talking to that I had interactions with all my life.
[00:03:01]
And assuming that he comes from the same villages, same, I assumed it would be the similar upbringing, it would be the similar personalities, similar kind of men. Absolutely not that. Absolutely no. So. So going back to living here I have. Sometimes you have to mark your boundaries. Because, uh, everybody is going to test it. And, uh, that's what I have been doing. That sometimes you have to use harsh words, sometimes you have to use some gifts, so. I tried everything. Didn't mean to harm or hurt anybody, but I have to draw my debauchery so that. Nobody, uh, nobody enters my boundary without my permission. Or breaks into it. So. So yeah, I might have word– used hardened, harsh words with the intent to show that I have not been using harsh word towards before. Even just in one email I showed the difference. Uh, but living– living, staying here, I think I'm happy overall. Overall I am. I mean, things have. Um, so yeah, we're looking towards. Oh. String of company so that I can do some selling on Amazon probably. And then I want to be able to draw. Couple of other trainings that I can start my own business because it's been more than. Fifteen years now I'm looking for a job. And it's not working on, so I think I have to look for something else. Because that summer it feels that that one experience with JP Morgan. 8:00 AM. It took my chance of doing any other job. I mean I should have been promoted, moved out to different– different department or something. It was too way a bulky experience for me to find something else somewhere. I probably still don't have the connections because finding jobs is not easy. You need connections, you need networking. Um, um, and in America it is very politically influenced. Every– and, uh, even if you don't want to say it, it's a very racially influenced, uh, also. Uh, uh. It doesn't mean that India doesn't have it. We have our castes and communities. In America you see a lot of profiling. Um, and it is written like India has that. What is it called? Reservations. So America also has those reservations. There is a percentage of how much you can hire from, how much, and what is the minimum requirement for what– what race you hire, how much. Every company, uh, based on, uh, the your total number of employees. And then you have reservations and caps and requirements, minimum requirements of what percent of your demographics are employed, demographics should be what race. So it's not that– it's– it's, um, a requirement, it's– it's a minimum requirement. Reservations are there here. Just not in America. Just not in India, but America also. So it's a different kind of expectation. So there's an expectation that there has to be a representation. I don't call me personally when everybody calls it reservation, I call it representations that everybody needs to be represented and there has to be a minimum of so much, to represent a population of so much. If you remember, there was a friend of mine who had said, I mean my ex husband's house, a friend who was my employer who said he didn't wanted me to come here. There was also another. I'm going to stop there. I think we should enter this year. There was another incident where there was a few Americans who didn't want me to come to America at least not to this part of the country. I went to the embassy for my visa stamping for the first time in 2005. Um, the– at the, uh, embassy, um, oh sorry, the consulate at the American Consulate. There was people who said you'd rather go to California. I don't want to girls like you ending up in Jersey. Oh, rather– rather– rather find you a way to go to California. I didn't know what that meant until– until recently. So. I was like they're in the American embassy. We were sitting and discussing how to reject my visa the first time in 2005 and then he looked up my file and he said, “Oh but you are already on the board of getting your green card. You will have it in less than six to eight months anyways.” So I didn't know what about Jersey then. What it meant, what he meant and why he thought California was better, West coast was better for me than the East Coast. But it was a group of people figuring out how– how to reject my visa. And I'm like, I don't want to go either. Then finally, he stamped. I came and then now it is my story. So, life is such. I think we should stop here. There's a lot to speak of, but it will take hours and hours and hours. I think we are already eighteen hours plus, right?
[00:09:02]
[End of Recording Four]