David Peña

Plainfield native David Peña details growing up as a queer child, and the love he has for his mother’s dedication to her children. David struggled in school after being placed in bilingual classes that stunted his general education. He is a talented artist and fashion designer who takes care of his mother, but he and his husband have recently experienced houselessness. David depended on Coming Home of Middlesex to help him with this situation.

“Give them your hand, help them, because without you there is not one else out there. Open up your heart. Don’t judge nobody. Respect each other.”
— David Peña

ANNOTATIONS

1. Religious Trauma, Pentecostalism - The Pentecostal faith is a branch of Christianity that is marked by its belief in Baptism, the experience of speaking in tongues, and the belief that, "faith must be powerfully experiential, and not something found merely through ritual or thinking." About twenty-five percent of Christians in the world identify as Pentecostal. Historically, Pentecostal branches of Christianity condemn homosexuality and transition between gender identities. Additionally, branches that are based in fundamentalism often encourage strict adherence to gender roles and practices of modesty in both dress and conversation. While David does not go into detail regarding the abuse that his father faced, what is alluded to here is religious trauma. Studies have shown that fundamental Christians, including those identifying as Pentecostal, are more likely to blame mental health issues on personal moral failings rather than chemical imbalances in the brain. These personal moral failings include falling to sinful behavior, moral weakness, performing acts against God's will, and demonic influence. These study members also said they were more likely to turn to their clergy for assistance in these matters and not necessarily mental health professionals. Because of these beliefs, many members of the church who may have experiences considered "sinful", such as succumbing to depression or anxiety, do not receive the help they need from mental health professionals. This may lead to long-term mental health consequences. While research regarding the effects of religious trauma through condemnation are still in their preliminary stages, many people ousted from their churches experience post traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, and feelings of inadequacy.
2. Tolerance of Homosexuality, Catholicism, Pentecostalism - In 1986, Pope John Paul II wrote a book titled "The Catechism." The Catechism names “homosexual acts” as “intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law,” and names “homosexual tendencies” as “objectively disordered.” However, the text also states that gay people can be accepted in the Church as long as they are celibate and do not pursue any same-sex relationships. Although David explains that his experience within the Catholic Church was generally positive, the experience of LGBTQ+ parishioners can vary depending on the location of the parish and the members of the congregation. A 2019 survey conducted in the United States found that 61% of people identifying as Catholic support same-sex marriage and unions. This is not necessarily the case in the rest of the Western world. Specifically, in Eastern Europe, a majority of polled Catholics believe that same-sex marriage and unions should be illegal. Within the Pentecostal Church, homosexuality has historically been condemned, and most Pentecostal denominations have doctrinal statements that condemn homosexuality. Compared to the Catholic Church, Pentecostals tend to be less accepting of the LGBTQ+ population worldwide.
3. English as a Second Language - In 1974, the U.S. Supreme Court found that San Francisco public schools had discriminated against 1,800 Chinese-American students by not addressing or working to improve the students' lack of English proficiency when providing instruction. The landmark ruling on Lau v. Nichols led to mandated access to English as a Second Language (ESL) classes to students within the public education system, as English was and is the primary language of instruction. The law enacted was titled the "Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974", which stated that schools must remove language barriers that limit students' access to instruction, which in America is given in English. Many kindergarteners and first graders who come from diverse backgrounds with limited English do well when placed in standard classes. However, by third grade, students who are characterized as culturally or linguistically diverse continue to be overrepresented in populations of special education student groups in all disability categories. According to the New York State Association of Bilinguals, the inappropriate use of assessment by teachers against English-limited students is mainly due to personal bias and misidentification during language-based skill processing. English Language Learners (ELLs) continue to fight discrimination and the lack of resources in New Jersey today. As recently as 2017, the largest public school district in New Jersey, Newark, was under investigation for failure to properly educate bilingual students. In the lawsuit, Newark public schools were found to have violated the Equal Educational Opportunities Act of 1974. ELL students who went through Newark's program left with little grasp of English or were "graduated" from ELL classes without full fluency in English. Newark's school districts will remain under observation until 2024 to ensure that this lapse in instruction is corrected.

Transcript: “Um, growing as a child, I was also put in Spanish classes, and I never knew why, because I was doing pretty well in first grade, and in second grade they put me in Spanish class, quote for what they said I was Spanish/Latino and I need to learn my race. And to me that was the hardest thing, because they had to start me from kindergarten straight to the grade that I was in, and that confused me a lot. Um, I believe that they shouldn’t have done that. Not only to me, but to a lot of other Latinos. By the time I hit sixth grade, I really did not know what I was doing. At that point they had put me in special classes because my level of reading and everything else was not the level they wanted. It was not my fault, it was the school. They should have done something else, but what could I do? I was a child. Plus, this is the seventies.”

Transcript [2]: “Lincoln was a school where they had specialty children, and children who needed help in reading and spelling and everything in my case. Like I said, it was not my fault. To me it was the school. The school should have not put me in bilingual. And to this day. I blame the school, always did. Like I said, I was not the only one. There's a lot of bilingual students who went through what I went through, and they were also put in special ed classes, which they do not belong, and from there went to Maxon.”

Learn More: Alexander Holston, “English Language Programs Trace Roots to Mid-1970s,” MPR News, December 17, 2012.

Learn More [2]: Chun Zhang and Su-Je Choh, “The Development of the Bilingual Special Education Field: Major Issues, Accomplishments, Future Directions, and Recommendations,” Journal of Multilingual Education Research, Critical Issues in Multilingual Education: Reviewing the Past to Create the Future, 1, no. 7 (2010).

Learn More [3]: Sharon Krengel, “English Learners Face Severe Inequities and Substandard Conditions in NJ Schools,” Education Law Center, November 16, 2021.

Learn More [4]: Patrick Wall, “Newark Schools Failed to Properly Educate English Learners, Feds Say,” Chalkbeat Newark, September 2, 2021.

4. Gay Clubs - The perception that the number of gay clubs in the United States is dwindling is supported by research done on the trends of bars closing. The years since 1979 have been marked by the closing of a large percentage of gay clubs, and continues to this day. Between 2007 to 2019, the total number of gay bars in the United States declined by 36.6%.
5. Intersex - Although David does not use the word "intersex", the language that he uses is the medical definition of intersex. The term "intersex" is an umbrella term used to describe individuals who are born outside of what is considered the "normal" gender binary: being strictly either male or female. Intersex individuals may be born with both male and female reproductive sex organs, or as David was, only one set of reproductive organs but with a hormonal imbalance. In these cases, it may not always be apparent at birth that a person is intersex; it may be that an individual presents one way, but their chromosomes do not fall along typical XX or XY binaries. This is a naturally occuring variation in human beings, and an estimated one in two people are born intersex. Not all people who are intersex are gay, but being intersex does fall under the LGBTQIA+ acronym umbrella. It should be noted that being intersex and being transgender are not mutually exclusive experiences, nor does one preclude the other. People who are intersex may be transgender or experience gender dysphoria, for example. And while David does not identify himself as "transgender", his experience with gender is related to his genotypic intersex condition. In Latino culture, intersex people tend to be discriminated against and experience exclusion or violence, and be subjected to unnecessary medical procedures due to their condition. While David was unaware of his condition until later in his life, he mentions feeling "different" than those around him, and the abuse he experienced from his father related to his sexuality may have been influenced by his unidentified condition.

Transcript: “I never said I was gay. I decided to check my hormones before I got sick, and I found I was sixty percent female, through forty percent male in a man's body. And not too long ago I spoke to my other doctor, and I told him what this, my old doctor said, and this, this was in North Carolina at the time, and, and I told him the story. I told him how the old doctor called me because I wanted to find out and he said to me, ‘I got bad news for you.’ Now, remember, that's at a time where AIDs was the thing, so when he told me he had bad news for me the first thing I had in my mind is that I have AIDs. And I was like, oh my God, I can't say this to my family. And um, I go in and we made an appointment. I went in two weeks later and my mind was, ‘I got AIDS.’ And he says, ‘I got good news and I got bad news.’ And I said to him, he said to me, ‘What, what did you want to know first?’ I said to him, ‘Well, you know what? Give me the bad news first. Get that one out of the way.’ He said, ‘The bad news is that your sixty percent female.’ And in my mind, I’m like, ‘No, it's not.’ In my mind I was like, ‘no, it's not.’ I kind of knew it. I knew it as a child. I knew growing up, something was different with me.”

Learn More: “What Is Intersex? Definition of Intersexual,” Planned Parenthood, accessed January 18, 2023.

Learn More [2]: “Understanding Intersex and Transgender Communities” (InterAct: Advocated for Intersex Youth, May 2016).

Learn More [3]: Karin Santi and Mariel Ortega, “5 Lessons That Can Help Us Understand What It Means to Be Intersex and What Are the Inclusion Challenges They Face,” United Nations Development Programme, October 26, 2018.

6. Unhoused LGBTQ+ Peoples - The government of the United States does not define “homeless” in one definitive way—this umbrella term encompasses all individuals who have no permanent or long-term shelter. There is currently no nationally representative sets of data that record homelessness in the United States that also include measures of sexual orientation or gender identity. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Equal Access rule states that shelters must accept all individuals who are eligible for shelter without regard to a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or marital status if that shelter receives funding from the HUD. While the Fair Housing Act prevents discrimination against LGBTQ+ individuals, those who experience homelessness may not be in the position to pursue litigation against those who discriminate against them when seeking housing. According to several studies conducted by UCLA’s Williams Institute, between 2016 and 2019, adults who identify as LGBTQ+ are twice as likely as non-identified LGBTQ+ people to experience homelessness in their lifetime. The majority of those who become unhoused for the first time are adults, although twenty percent of those surveyed experienced being unhoused before the age of 18. Additionally, people who identify as transgender specifically (eight percent of those surveyed) report more recent and more frequent periods of being homeless. Black LGBTQ+ individuals are the most at-risk of becoming unhoused due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. People who fall under the LGBTQ+ umbrella are more likely to become unhoused due to a number of systemic factors. Negative family attitudes towards LGBTQ+ identities are strong drivers and predictors of homelessness. Like many other LGBTQ+ people, David experienced discrimination and stigmatization from his family at a young age.

TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

Perth Amboy, New Jersey

April 15, 2022

Transcription by Katie Scrivani

Annotations by Hannah M’Lynn


[00:00:00]

Okay, today is Friday, April 15th, it is 11:32am. This is Dan Swern, and I’m here at 675 New Brunswick Avenue, apartment 102. I’m here interviewing- 

David Peña

David, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me today and share your story. And take your time of course, but whenever you are ready please feel free to start from the beginning

Oh, no, thank you for accepting me and letting me do this with you. I am kind of, can you say proud? I have never done this before, this is my first time, and I hope my family gets the chance to see this as well. And-

Whenever you are ready, David, you can just dive right in. 

Um, what would you like to know first?

Well, you can start with sharing anything about your childhood, anything about your earliest memories. 

Okay, well I have a lot of memories of my past. When I was a child, I was basically abused, and I don’t think my father knew that he was abusing me, because I found out he was also abused by his father. So, um, growing up I felt that I was not wanted by him. And, um, I was always close to my mom. And I knew I was not normal, I found out I was different than my own brothers. I did not know why. Growing up in a religious family, especially my father was Pentecostal, um, it was hard for me to even tell them as a child that I think I am this person, not this person. But I just let it go. I never said anything, I kept it to myself. Um, finally when I grew, I call it ‘as I blossomed’, and that’s the word I use, I blossomed and that’s when I found out, I chosen gay, not the other one. And I am happy the way I am. Um, growing as a child, I was also put in Spanish classes, and I never knew why, because I was doing pretty well in first grade, and in second grade they put me in Spanish class, quote for what they said I was Spanish/Latino and I need to learn my race. And to me that was the hardest thing, because they had to start me from kindergarten straight to the grade that I was in, and that confused me a lot. Um, I believe that they shouldn’t have done that. Not only to me, but to a lot of other Latinos. By the time I hit sixth grade, I really did not know what I was doing. At that point they had put me in special classes because my level of reading and everything else was not the level they wanted. It was not my fault, it was the school. They should have done something else, but what could I do? I was a child. Plus, this is the seventies. Um, my mother raised me and my other siblings, which, there’s actually six of us. My mother raised four, my grandparents wanted my sister because sister had down syndrome and they had other children at the time, and they were all girls. [Cell phone rings]

[Annotation 1]

[Annotation 3]

[00:04:26]

End of recording one

Recording Two

[00:00:00]

She's been raised during the time my grandpa was still alive. They took care of her since she was born. Because they were telling my parents that look, you have all boys, and she's the only sick baby. She might get hurt by us. So, my parents–my grandparents said, “okay.” My parents said, “okay,” and my grandparents took care of her until they passed away and my aunt took over. My oldest brother was taken by my other grandparents because they were, um, they told my mom being that my father and his father are two different people, and my father have four boys, that let them raise my brother and they will go to Puerto Rico, and he will go there. But we know about– I knew about my brother, my brother's new them, but we did not know much about my sister. She wasn't born or raised by us– around us– since she was born. My mother was the only father and mother we had. My father wasn't around even though we know of him, and we love him and respect him, especially me. I just don't get along with my dad. But he passed away I think five years ago, six, and the only thing I regret is not going to his funeral, that's about it. I didn't go. And one night he had the money to, I was engaged, and I was through the process of bringing my husband and so forth. And I couldn’t go. Then we, um, we actually move from North Carolina–We actually are from here. I was born here raised here, but we moved for years in North Carolina. I was scared, because to me it was a hick town, and I was afraid being a gay man in that area. So, I didn't know how I did it, but for years, I was fine. And then we move back.

David, where in New Jersey were you born and what year was that?

 I was born in Newark, New Jersey, 1966. I was, from what I was told, my father was –they were living in Plainfield, New Jersey and I don't understand why they didn't took me to the hospital there. They took my mom to Newark. So, I was born in Newark? 

[00:03:07]

My sister Daisy has passed away in 2019. Before she actually died–I believe on the 18th of December, and she was buried on the 24th of December, and then covid started. I went, before she passed away, I wanted to go and see her and then nobody would help me go see her. I didn't have the money to go take a plane. So, my friend paid me to take the bus. I took the bus, but I never made it on time. So, I missed saying goodbye to my sister. 

Where was she?

She was in Florida at the time. Actually, she was raised in Puerto Rico. She was taken from here to Puerto Rico after my grandfather died, because he died here in New Jersey, then my grandmother decided to go to Puerto Rico. She was raised there. She's actually, um, she was 50 when she passed away. Um, I love my brother Sergio, even though he's never been around. He's six years older than I am. He is a little bit rough, but he's always showing me that he loved me. No matter what. And he's, he's very special to me and my niece. She's the oldest of my nephews and nieces. Her name is Mariah. 

[00:05:22]

Why don’t you tell me what it was like- what town did you live in growing up?

Oh, I lived in Plainfield, New Jersey

Can you tell me a little about what it was like growing up in Plainfield?

I remember a teacher that I had. Her name was Mrs. Goldstein. She was a Jewish teacher and love me to death, and I was wondering why, and she always carried a color purple to school. And I used to hate that shirt at the time, but she did, and she loved the color purple. And she was a sweetheart with me. I mean, I loved her to death and, but I never liked the color. Three years later, the purple, I found out what it meant. And I love it. I have purple in my closet. Anywhere you can find purple, I have it. I’ve been in Cook School. That was the first time, actually, I went to Woodland School. From there I was transferred to Cook, but I also went to a Jewish school, which was right at the corner. That was actually the first school I went to. Right at the corner where I used to live in East Sixth Street. And that's school was a house, but I don't know what happened where they told us that we couldn’t go to the school no more. So, I went to Woodland from there. They transfer me from Woodland to Cook, and that's where I was there for, like, I could say, three years. From Cook I went to Stillman. No, I went around to a lot of schools—Jefferson? No, not– I think it was Jefferson, then Stillman. They went back to Cook from Cook I went to, actually, yes, I went to Evergreen and back to Cook. From there I went to Maxon. Maxon, Maxon is the– oh, no, I went from Cook school to Lincoln. Lincoln was a school where they had specialty children, and children who needed help in reading and spelling and everything in my case. Like I said, it was not my fault. To me it was the school. The school should have not put me in bilingual. And to this day. I blame the school, always did. Like I said, I was not the only one. There's a lot of bilingual students who went through what I went through, and they were also put in special ed classes, which they do not belong, and from there went to Maxon. From Maxine I went to the high school. When I went to the high school, they put me up somewhere higher. And I special classes because they said I was doing better. I was doing better because I did not belong there. The only thing that I did know, being a gay heavyset man, going to the gym was embarrassing to me. I didn't feel comfortable. I did not want to go to none of the gyms. I would cut gym just not to go there, because I was embarrassed of myself. I was embarrassed of who I was and to go to gym, not knowing sports, because I never knew how to play sports. And that was also for me, my family's fault because they never let me play baseball nor football. Now, in the end, growing up as an adult they did. But I was not interested compared to other things. 

[Annotation 3]

[00:09:25]

What about your memories of growing up with your siblings, or your parents, or your mom? 

My mom did everything for us. She took care of us. She was there for us. I remember as a child, my father kicked me out of the house naked because my two siblings–at the time one of them went to Puerto Rico, my father took him to Puerto Rico to study there for a year and me and my younger siblings stayed here. He was married to his wife, and my father was sleeping, and I remembered my two brothers fighting for a ball. And I told him, “Give me the ball. Dad is sleeping. You don't want him out here to spank us.” Well, for me doing that his wife told my father. My father came out bit, beat the living daylights out for me. Kicked me out of the house with underwear. And I had to hide in the back, get dressed, went home and told my mom. And I told my mom will never go back to his house. And honestly, I haven't went to my father's house until like months later. But I think he was he was in the in the stage of getting divorce. because his wife was not a good wife. But my mom, she did her best for us. We – there was days that we had nothing to eat, and she will cook whatever she had. She would always, she was always pulling us in everything, being that if she was going out to a party, she would take us because we would go as a family. She would teach us, “if you don't clean, you won't eat.” So, we had to learn how to clean, and she will cook. That's how I’m on my mom’s voice She I love her to death. Yes, you see I have her here. And—

So, what about high school? What was that experience like, for you?

Like I said, I was embarrassed. I did not enjoy going to gym. I did not enjoy being in these classes knowing that other people will notice me there. And I was embarrassed of it. It wasn't fair. Like I said, but I quit school. I went to night school, and I graduated in 1996 in adult high school because I believed that I wasn't gonna graduate the way I wanted to graduate where I could get credits and I could go to school in later life. But that turned out wrong, because, because of the money and because I was scared of even going to New York because, you know, New York is beautiful but the dangers of me being a gay man at the time was not safe fer me. So, I tried to stay in this area. I did went to school in hair styling. I did not like it. I just wanted to paint nails and she's all, “you could do the hair and blah, blah this.” And I did not want to and felt that it wasn't me. And I had a leave-in. Plus, I got sick as the end, having had three jobs. And I was going to school, having problems at home. So, I got depression, depression. And I don't work no more nor go to school.

[00:14:29]

 What about the period when you left high school, what were you doing at that time? 

I was actually working. I worked in a restaurant in the mountains, they closed down now because the last thing I know, it was closed down. 

Where in the mountains?

Near Mountain Reservations, you know, where there's a park up in the mountains. Going towards–You take Route 22 to Blue Star. Take the overpass. Go up and just go straight up and at the light make a right and take all this turn and they will take you straight to Mountain, Mountain Reservation. But I wait and go left, and there was a restaurant up, up the mountain. And I know it closed. But I was working there until two guys, I don't know where they were from, they fired that chef there. We were helping the chef and they didn't want us to do, prepare food or anything. They wanted us to wash dishes, so they let us go. So, it was up and down for me, basically. I worked in supermarkets. I did work for Sears. I did work. I started working for Stern. That's when I got sick. I had a leave it. 

What were you sick with?

Depression. That, I was with depression, and I couldn't do it anymore. Right now, taking care of my mom, working for my mom. And as you see, I haven't finished yet, but it's you see that? That's mine.

The painting?

 Yeah. 

Very nice.

My niece is calling

 Do you want to go check on her?

No, she says, “where’s my Tio?”

So, do you want to tell me about your ex-husband? 

He's actually my husband. 

Oh, your husband. I’m sorry. 

Can I keep his name secret? 

Yeah, you don’t have to say his name.

[00:17:34]

He's from TR. He's a bodybuilder. He's very sweet, very kind. He has his temper. I miss him a lot. Hopefully he’ll be here soon. He's in North Carolina because we became homeless, and he has his child with him. So, he had to go, and I said it was fine. Because I didn’t have no place at the time. And it would have been easier if he went to a family member, which he did. And took his child there. We do talk. I miss him a lot. I actually do. I have been begging him to come home. He's just trying to get everything set for him to come, and I just want him now. That's all I could say about it is. I can say his name or anything. 

You don't want to talk about how you met or anything like that? 

No, it's because of his family. Everything has to stay quiet. 

Do you mind my asking how the two of you found yourselves homeless?

There was, um– we were living, we were living from room to house to house at the time. I had an apartment, but we moved from there and the landlord, they didn’t want the child and it was a studio. So, because of the child, we had to leave, you know, so I will stay from friends to friends until finally we became homeless. 

Neither of you were working at the time?

 He started working and I wasn't working. I was getting disability. I'm still getting disability. Like I say, I miss him a lot. He knows I miss him a lot. And I wish he was here. But right now, we just got to wait and see. 

David, you mentioned to me, previously, about your artwork, and about going to the clubs, and I'm wondering if you might be willing to share a little bit about that part of your life, too.

When I came out, I used to go to the Colosseum. I don't know if you remember the club right there in Sayreville. It was my first time going to a gay club. I enjoyed it, and I also love to dance and that's where I expressed myself. And I met a lot of beautiful people there. I became friends with a lot of them and it was because of my dancing that I got to know friends and people who was just like me. We I didn’t have to hide and people who will respect me not being gay because there were people there who were not gay, and they will go there just for the fun and we had a lot of fun. And that's when I started doing drag. And I enjoyed it. I actually enjoyed it. I have fun. They used to call, um, I called myself Lady D. The reason why I called myself, as Lady Di, is because of Lady Diana. Because remember that, that was the time that she was alive. Everybody was in love, especially the gay people was in love, with this lady and knowing that she was a princess and she was loved by us. And when she died, I was basically heartbroken. And that's why I took the name from. Plus, I was ‘D’ and she was ‘D’. But I enjoyed it. And then that’s when I found out that if I go to a straight club and dress as a drag, they didn’t care. That was fun, and I was just doing fun. I was, that was for me having fun. That was me just taking out all the stress and all this thing and I became a different person and that was how I felt. You know? And people, they will see the two me’s, basically. They couldn't believe that that was me because I made a change compared from the way that they see me now to when I get dressed. You know? And then if they would tease me dancing, I would tease them. They would laugh at the people who did, and that was fun. Anything else?

[Editor’s Note: The bar that David refers to, “The Colosseum”, was a bar on Route 9 that primarily hosted gay events. The Colosseum was notorious for bar fights, and several shootings also took place in its parking lot. This club is no longer operating.]

[00:23:24]

Any specific memories from that time that you look fondly back on?

A person. This person has, I used to see him at the Coliseum. He was the bartender. He was a sweetheart. Through the years, I went to Roxy and Dukes, about three years, four years. When I went in, I was invited by a girl. She lost her boyfriend, and I was stressing out about my fiancé. And she brought me in and lo and behold, there was the back bartender, and his name is David. This person I admire so much. He's a sweetheart. He's very smart. He knows about his history. He knows everything. He looks up in the stars. He did acting. And I will always say, I wish I was this person, because he would do things that I never did. And I admire him and he's the only person that I could say he's very special to me and he's been there ever since then for me. And his name is, his name is David Johns. I don't know if you ever been to the Coliseum ever. It's a very– for me it was special. And David is, too. 

Are there other places that the local gay community or drag community go to here in central Jersey?

I used to go. I even went to New York. I went close to, towards the border of New Jersey, where at the time it was for us to go. Nowadays there’s no place for us to go and I don't understand why. The, the young group says, “well, they are accepting us now.” They can go to anywhere, but in reality, we do need a place to go. We do need a place where we as gay people could go and have fun, and be us, and do they, what we want to do. If we go to straight club, we have to watch ourself. Be careful. Even though we could be who we are, we have to watch yourself in a lot of ways. Because I went to the straight club. I almost got mugged. I got jumped for helping another gay person who in the end did not help me. And I think for us as gay people we should go to a place where it's safe for us to go. And I think they should, reopen the club's back for us.  

[Annotation 4]

David, what happened after you and your husband found yourself in homelessness?  

Well, like I said, he had to take his daughter somewhere–it was his child–somewhere else, and I had to stay here to find a place. And thank God, I found Coming Home. They helped me find a place and I ended up with my mother, because I had my mother with me. And we're here. Sooner or later, I don't know when, he’ll be here. And we could be a family again. 

Where were you staying before you found Coming Home?

I was actually in a motel in North Plainfield for three days. Then, how’d it go, I called them again, because I was at the police station in the rain. I didn’t know what to do. I called my aunt; my aunt spoke to a family member. They asked me to stay until I find a place. And finally, they told me I need a place, place, and I called them again. I need to find a place and Coming Home took me to Red Carpet. And my mother, and I stayed there until we got this place. 

What this before the pandemic? During the pandemic?

During. Especially me, I had to do dialysis. I didn't want to go to a shelter. I was scared. Plus, me taking medication, plus me take it out doing the dialysis, plus not knowing – because all I've ever heard, that being a gay man going to a shelter? Forget it. They will hurt you, do things to you that you don't want. I need some water. 

[Editor’s Note: Dialysis treatments remove toxins and waste from the blood that failing kidneys can no longer extract. When experiencing kidney failure or dysfunction, dialysis treatment may be needed. David does not mention what has caused his kidney failure, nor does he mention if he is still undergoing this treatment.]

[00:29:29]

End of Recording Two

Recording Three

[00:00:00]

Um, what else? My family are from Puerto Rico. Both of my parents, but my family—there’s my nephew's and niece's. Some of them are from El Salvador. Puerto Rican-Salvadorian. My niece she's Puerto Rican-Filipina. My other three nephews and nieces are Puerto Rican-Haitian -Jamaican. I’ve got cousins that are Dominican, cousins that are Mexicans, cousins that are Colombians, cousins who are Ecuadorian. I just finally know I have family from, who are were actually white. Which I wasn't prejudiced, but I was surprised living in New Jersey, in a time where it's basically all black, just to know you got white family. It was like, “oh, how do you know that?” You know? But I'm very–my both sides of my family are very large, for what my understanding is, and my mother said we were over 1,000. And this is first, second, third, fourth cousins to fifth generation, even more. To my father's side as well, first, second, third, and so on. My great-grandmother, my mother's mother's mother had eighteen kids. Two of them was in World War Two. One was a blind teacher, one of the siblings had nineteen kids and all of the others either had eighteen to seventeen. So it’s very large, my family is large. I also have family members who also was in Vietnam, so I have family who are in the back history of in the military for the United States, from WWII to Vietnam and for the war that just passed. My, my brothers, and believe cousins as well. I like about history, especially the history in Plainfield, which I was surprised about knowing that—oh, what the names that–well, actually, New Jersey started the theaters, the movies, and they moved to California. Plainfield was Broadway at one time, before they moved to New York. So, I love history and I knew I loved history because to know this is to know so much. In the sense of George Washington stood, slept in Plainfield. There's a drake out there that he slept there and one time. And in Dunellen, there's a mountain called Mount Washington Rock, where George Washington stood and during the war and that's how they won. So, I like those histories and it's based upon my history as well, you know, to know that you're Puerto Rican and still have the Tejano Indian blood in me. They found out that we still expect, especially the –how is it called–the perfect human and they put it in YouTube. Actually, they had in the news. The perfect human is Puerto Rican because we still have our Tejano blood ancestors in us. You could still find it. And not, not by a lot, but enough, and to me I was happy, and to know this.

[Editor’s Note: The term "Tejano" is derived from the Spanish adjective "tejano", and denotes a Texan of historically Mexican descent, or a current-day Mexican of Spaniard descent. Historically, this term was used to broadly discuss native Mexicans. However, more recently, the term has come to refer specifically to the regional Mexican Texans of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and to the Hispanic Texans of the Spanish eras.]

But like I said, I love history. I also like fashion designing. I'd been doing design since I believe nine, ten. That was basically what I loved more. I have some drawings around here of some of my designs. One of my drawings went to Israel. Yeah, I met a guy. He said he's from Israel and he liked painting. I like painting. And I had this drawing, which I never finished– and he's also a Christian, but he's from Israel—and I had this woman inside a pot, and inside the pot she was crying, and it was river that will go through the pot straight to the land. Once I had a rope, of a hanging rope, and a skull and a vulture, but in behind of her is Jesus trying to say no, but she was crying. And that meant me, I did that job because of me because that's how I felt. I may be, because in reality I chose the word gay. I never said I was gay. I decided to check my hormones before I got sick, and I found I was sixty percent female, through forty percent male in a man's body. And not too long ago I spoke to my other doctor, and I told him what this, my old doctor said, and this, this was in North Carolina at the time, and, and I told him the story. I told him how the old doctor called me because I wanted to find out and he said to me, “I got bad news for you.” Now, remember, that's at a time where AIDs was the thing, so when he told me he had bad news for me the first thing I had in my mind is that I have AID’s. And I was like, oh my God, I can't say this to my family. And um, I go in and we made an appointment. I went in two weeks later and my mind was, “I got AIDS.” And he says, “I got good news and I got bad news.” And I said to him, he said to me, “what, what did you want to know first?” I said to him, “well, you know what? Give me the bad news first. Get that one out of the way.” He said, “the bad news is that your sixty percent female.” And in my mind, I’m like, “no, it's not.” In my mind I was like, “no, it's not.” I kind of knew it. I knew it as a child. I knew growing up, something was different with me.

[Annotation 5]

Like, I never had an Adam's apple. If I shave, my face is so different. And people said I got beautiful lips and, like, when I dress in drag, I have size—I am a size ten in shoes, which is a small size for a woman, especially for a man, wearing size ten is too small. And I have thick legs, so, when I wear stockings, I have guys looking at my legs. Straight men, at that. And I have a chest. The chest grew because as a child I was skinny, and my chest started pop out. And I was like going to the store, men saw me and asked me if I was a boy or girl. I was quiet, and I didn’t say anything, and I was embarrassed. So, what I did was eat a lot. Just eat, gain weight. From skinny, from being skinny, to become overweight did not help. Because I got sicker, I got health problems, and my chest was more pronounced, but I thought it was because being a heavy, of course you grow a chest. But my chest were popping out. And my nephews were big, heavy, and their chest is pouring down while mine is popping out. So that's when I decided to check myself. Why? This, and this, and this, and why I felt this way. So, I knew that I was a female stuck in a man's body, but I didn't want to seem change my sex because for me, God made me this way. Why am I going to have another person who's not God to change me? And I guess it's because of my religion. I guess, because I was brought up this way. I don't think I have the right to go to a surgeon. I want to be a full female-female. I really do. You know, for me, if God says, David your female, I'm a female. Let him decide for me. Not me. I don't think I don't have that right. I don't know, and I don't think people will understand me or there will be other people who said, no, I'm wrong, but that's me. I chose it. You could choose whatever you want. I chose this. You know, like I said, I respect you, respect mines. 

[00:11:24]

What was the good news?

I’m a man. Oh, forty percent male. That was funny. I was laughing, and I looked at him and said to myself, “are you stupid?” At least I know what I am. At least I know what I felt, and that I knew was right. That's not bad, you know, I didn't choose to be this way. I was born this way. I knew since I was a child since I was five, I knew. You know, but I chose to be like this. Now, if I go to a club dressed as a woman, I could, you know, because I do it for fun. I don't do for nothing else, just for fun. And show the real–see the reaction of all the guys and the other ladies. And I could dance. I’m a slut dancer. I will have people looking at me. I love them when they look at me. And I would– I did that, too, in a straight club. And this six feet tall Dominican man came up to me and said, “I love the way you dance.” I blushed and turned red, and I said, “oh thank you.” At the time I wasn't that much sick, so he says, “I want to buy you a glass of wine or beer.” I said, “I don't like beer. I take wine.” And he bought me a wine. You know, but it was fun to me. That's fun. To me, to me, it's like something special. I did something special; you know. And to show people, it doesn't matter who you are, or what you are, as long as you're having fun, and that you liked it. If it's fun, it's, it's fine. That's me. And I hope I get the chance to keep doing it where people could see that even though I'm gay, even though I dress up, I want to respect– be respected the same way that a gay men should be respected. And they want to be respected as well. That's what my belief is. I don't know if other people believe the same way as I do. I don't care. But that's the way I believe.

[00:14:58]

Tell me about your relationship with religion, why it’s important to you.

 I was brought up Pentecostal. I was basically forced by my dad. If we didn't go, we will get hit. To me, I don't that I have the right to judge, to disrespect because I seen a lotta judging and disrespecting in that religion. Mind you, I like it, I just don't like the way they teach. Another thing is a thing of yelling at these people with a mic in their hand. If you have a mic, just talk it, like I could hear you, don't scream it. At the time, I was getting a lot of headaches. I couldn't bear going to that church knowing that I will get headaches of their screaming and yelling. I think that was wrong. So, my mother took us– being as she's Catholic–she took us to Catholic. And yes, I’m Catholic. I was baptized. I did my first communion, my confirmation. I'm Catholic and I choose that religion. I feel comfortable, especially now that they respect me who I am. They don't care. And especially because the priest, John Paul the Pope, said that we could be who we are, you know. And they’re not going to judge us. That's good. I feel better. At least they respect me more now than they did back then. So, if I have to choose, I choose Catholic over Pentecostal. Uh, this is Tori, my best friend, he passed away. He got hit by a car as a child. We went to the church–it was Pentecostal–and the boys decided to go downstairs to the bathroom. So, we were in the bathroom and this black dog out of nowhere, broke the wall, came out. We ran upstairs. That's the story I got. It was, as a child, it was scary. I don't know how this black dog was there. I don't know how it broke the wall, but we ran and that was scary. Knowing a dog, get that, knowing there as a child, seeing a dog break this wall, and it was a dog, a black dog, and we ran upstairs. That's the only story I got about that. But I don't like that church. I respected it, just don't like it. 

[Annotation 2]

Do you have a local, local church here in Perth Amboy? 

There's actually, three, four, five that I want to go to. Catholic churches. I just want to see if my mother will go with me. If she goes with me, they then I’m going to take her there. But there's one on Smith, there’s one over here, I don’t know the street name, and I think this is a Catholic church right by there, too, close by.

[00:18:48]

How long have you been in this apartment?

Uh, Four months. On January 15th, so it was four. 

Where were you before that?

I was actually in Red Roof, in Edison. It was nice. I just got surprised about certain things I would not like to say. I don't want to get them in trouble. I just got surprised. 

And how did you connect with Coming Home of Middlesex?

Um, someone told me about 211. And I called, because I didn't have nowhere to go. And, I called, a month passed by, I had to keep calling and calling because I didn't know where I was going to go. Especially when I was told that I need to leave. And finally, for me that did it was Millie, she's she helped me so much and I have, I don't know what to do to thank her because she helped me a lot. 

So just to, just to clarify quickly: You were finding yourself losing the place where you were staying, but they no one responded until you actually lost that, huh?

They told me I could stay for, like, two, two to three months

What that Red Roof or somewhere else?

Somewhere else, because I was already in the streets. And I was at that point where I was going to be in the street again. Mind you, I have been in the streets. I stayed in Dunkin Donuts and later on I get kicked out. At seven o’clock, “I need you to leave.” I didn’t try to sleep there, but you know how, you're tired, you fall asleep. You can't do anything. But now that Dunkin Donuts stop taking, uh, they close at eleven, they don't stay until twelve. They don't have, they don't until–they were open 24 hours. Not anymore. [phone rings]. My phone.

Go ahead. 

But, just Millie, I wish she was here so I could thank her for everything. Anything else?

I'm sorry, you're talking about, you were, you were staying in places like Dunkin Donuts? 

Oh, I slept in the basement. Actually, was a laundry room. Until like seven o’clock, before anyone woke up and saw me there. 

For like a random apartment complex?

Yeah.

Got it. How many nights did you do that?

 I would, I actually did it twice, three times. But I will get out before anybody noticed me there. The majority of the time I was actually in Dunkin Donut until I got sick, and I had to be hospitalized. 

Is that when, I guess, is that when you Millie reached out to you when, you know, when you were in the hospital?

No. I got sick, and I was told to stay with, with my brother at the time, but I needed to leave because he had his family and he only had two bedrooms. At the time, my mom was there but she also had to leave because there was no room. And mind you my brother has six kids.

So, you kept using you just kept calling 211 until finally someone from Coming Home reached out to you?

Yeah. 

And that took about you said a month?

It took a month, and then it took, for them to find a place for me to stay, I think it took about another month. Because I was thankful because that I was staying in red carpet. 

So, you were able to go right from your brother's–?

Right to my other brothers, yeah, because my other brother told me I could stay, but I can't stay for long. He told me I need to stay for three months. So, there were, that was the three-month because basically, I was outside, but I was sick, you know, I was doing dialysis. I didn't want to go to no shelter. I’d rather sleep in the streets before I go to a shelter. I seen bed bugs. I seen, I heard the way they treat gay people and I seen it with my own eyes. 

When were you in a shelter previously?

 It wasn't me, but they told me. ‘Cause I met people from the shelter, and they said, and I had to lie to them that I'm not gay. So, for even though they had an idea, I had to lie, so they had to take my word that I wasn’t in gay. Because if they knew, I would have got jumped. And I wasn't looking for no one anyway. I wasn’t it. You know, I like to have friends. I don't care who you are or what you did. I'm like that. And if I can try to help you, I try to help you as well. And that's how I am. To me, if you don't know how to speak Spanish, English and you need to go to the doctors and if you need my help, I'm there. Even though they pay me, I would tell them no. They said, “no, just take it, take it, take it.” I couldn't say ‘no’ no more because there would say, “take it.” And I kept saying to them, I honestly said, “no, no, no.” They said, “no, no, no you taking it.” Like what can I do? So basically, I use it for my mom or for my niece or for my nephews. I never used it for me.

[Annotation 6]

Yes, I did buy pack of cigarettes, that's it. But I like to help people and if I have to fight for anyone, I will do it like I– when we were talking about the Medicaid with eulogistic care and I came out and said, “no. Wait a minute. You, this is a lie.” And I started saying something. I think you finish talking to us when that happened. You left the session, and then she started talking. I wish you was there, then you will see what I told them. Because honestly, I said, “I'm not doing it for my cell phone. I'm fighting for people who like me, who waited hours, hours, for them to pick me up or they won't pick me up at all.” And I was upset and yelling, and I said, “I'm not only doing it for me. I seen other people.” There was this lady who was calling them, and it was like if you didn't care. And at the time, you know, it was 211 and you know, that it was only one person going in the car and they have the plastic. What they don't understand is a person who does the dialysis needs to be picked up early. The seat is at 5:30 for me, but I have to be there before five. So that when I go in, I have to be in my seat at 5:30, and they hook me up. They will pick me up at 5:30 and I'm like, “no, no.” The reason why I was taking the car is I don't make enough money to take my car. Especially now. The gas is too much. So, I said, “no.” So I had to drive myself. The second is, they won't pick me up on time. After the analysis I want to go home. I wanted to eat. I want to take my meds. Then I have to lie down. I don't want to be bothered for at least three or four hours, because I'm in pain. And they had me waiting. Not only there where I used to go. And I walked from route 22 to Middlesex in pain in with a book bag. The same thing happening here; I walked from King, Street straight to here in pain. And they have the nerve, and they did it twice, they had to nerve to call me while I'm walking, and I just told him, sorry to say this, especially here, “I'm walking. Leave me the fuck alone.” That's the word I used, and I hang up. Because I don't think they have the right to leave me there knowing that I have to take my meds, knowing that have to eat, knowing that I have to lay down. Because people like me, who's doing dialysis, need me to be home on time: eat, take their meds, and go to sleep. Because we are in pain. Especially me, I get him pain. So, if I have to fight for them, I would do it. Even if it's the last thing I do. I will do it and that's when they ask me—actually they like me. Coming Home loves me. And I guess the way I talk with you guys, I guess you all like me, too. But I'm straightforward. I will tell you this straight. I tell you anything. I'm straightforward. And that's the way I am. Anything else?

[00:31:30]

Is that what you participate with the CPC group? Just so you can be a be of help, or be of service, to other people? 

If I could help anyone, and if I have chance to help anyone, yes. I will do it. But at the same time, I would like to do my things. I would like to draw. I would like to design. I would like to do anything. 

Where do you make space for yourself? Or do you—

Anyway, like here, on the sofa, other chair, on the table, on the floor. I do it anywhere, you know? Because I have back pain, I have to lay down. I can't be much on the chair because of my back. Because I did also, I did, um gastric bypass. And while I was when I was in, did the surgery, I got sick, too. I bit five times in the hospital. I almost died, basically, after the surgery. And doing that, I started getting back pains. So usually, I'm not sitting down, I'm laying, because I can't take the pain. That's why I couldn't even do that exercise, because if I could have, I would’ve lost more weight. But I can't. I will dance, but then after that to next day I'm in so much pain. In so much pain. But I love dancing. 

Can you tell me a little bit about what your creative aesthetic or what kind of images you like to produce in your painting, anything like that? 

I could show you.

Can you describe them to me?

My thing is basically fashion designing. I always, that was my interest, but I like contemporary, as well. And I do also graffiti, but being Puerto Rican, I will use Puerto Rico. That's how I would say. Um, or what I will do is I will design a dress and do contemporary behind it. And I guess that's the way I feel. But my joy is basically, basically me, the way I feel the way, I supposed to feel where I supposed to look, that's why I do designing. But the Contemporary part is, to me, is showing different stuff in different places. Where on a place, like mixing, if I want to mix a part a made a mistake as long as it looks fine, I will fix it. Then I will add something else to it, you know. Or I will put a square, or anything, as long as I do like that, I like it. But me to explain it? That's gonna be hard. It's kind of, I have to show you more. I think I have something there. 

Yes, if you want to pull a couple pieces and talk about them.

[00:35:20]

End of Recording Three

Recording Four

[00:00:00]

First, because, once I may a mistake, I will leave it alone. That was my mistake; I used the wrong pen, ink, so I left is alone. But, as you see, I like curves. I like, uh, designing. I love skin. So, my idea of a woman is to show her more sexy, show her more skin, and more everything. I did this, I don’t know why I did it. But as you see, I did it because of a friend of mine. Um, it’s not punk. What is that word they use? My friend David, he dressed up as something from the 1700’s and the girls were wearing the same style, but more modernized. And some of them wear these tight, tight dresses. So, I did this dress in that style. And they wear these hats. They’re about this big, so I will do something like that. But then in the background, I will do contemporary. But like I said, if I make a mistake—if I notice I make a mistake—boy, I’ll leave it alone. I don’t touch it. It’s not finished. Its open here, and I was just doing some designs. It’s not finished. But, as you can see, I am more interested in fashion designing, and I love it. I actually do love it. And I love sexy. It has to be sexy. Trying to find one that is actually finished, because I have books that are actually finished. And there are some that are not because I don’t like it. As you see, its open and like I said: curves. I love curves. And when I drew ladies, it’s like drawing a picture of me. And that could be me, and dress as sexy as possible as me. Cause like I said, I could be a slut, but dress respectful, though. Let’s see, I know there’s one more. Let’s see.  I know that I have so much, just to find them is so hard. I didn’t know you were going to ask for those. Give me a second, I know I have some somewhere. My friends keep telling me, “Draw, draw, keep drawing!” I’m like, “okay, but I’ve got to watch my mom and I’m in pain, so I’m wondering what you want me to do?” This, I used to work for Burger King and the lady who was the owner of Burger King loved me so much that when I got sick, she gave me this. The only thing I did not like is that it’s so small. And see, I like skin and I like to show bodies. It’s not finished, I messed up her face, that’s why I left it alone. What’s this? No. [Coughs] I was teaching somebody how to draw for designing. In the states its ten heads down to eleven, so the heads have to be exact going straight down. The eleventh will be half of the head, so every part is a woman’s body of the head.  I tried to explain to them that this is how you do it, and here will be the bellybutton, so that will be the hand right there. You have to put the parts where they belong to start a woman. But I noticed that I make my ladies with the legs longer. The reason being that if you look at the designers who design the woman’s dress, look at their legs, they’re long. So that’s why I do it that way. In Puerto Rico, the ladies are only eight feet tall, so the legs have to be eight and a half. And because they have more curves, that’s how I got the curves. Like I said, I could do anything I put my mind into it. 

Do you mind describing the image?

Um, to me, well it’s like a park. This is a squirrel, a tree. I like the trees. What I do when I make a tree, I actually start it this way, where I make the veins. If you’ve seen the crack of the wall and you see the way the crack is going any which way, then of course you could do it that way. See? On a tree, and then you fill it up. And that’s how I get here. I filled it up. I did it as the crack of the wall and then I add the tree. I think this is better than making the V. I mean that as, you growing up, as a child, in the art classes, they would teach you to make your V, keep making V’s, and then you have your tree. And I thought that was stupid. So, when I felt—so what I said was the crack, wait a minute, let me see this. And sure enough, any crack that you see, if you copy it, and you fill it up, there is it. There’s your tree. And this is the sky, a squirrel right there, an apple with a worm. And, but honestly, I will paint it or I will leave it that way. As a child I had, uh, forgot I had a drawing, back when I was in school, about ducks. The ducks doing this, to land on water, and some took off. And I didn’t paint it, and I showed my art teacher, and she took it without me knowing to the museum and it was there for the whole school year. [cough] I need water. Can I get a break? Its hot. 

Yeah, David, we can actually wrap up if you want.

You think everything is fine?

[00:09:18]

End of Recording Four

Recording Five

[00:00:00]

David, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask if there was anything you wanted to leave us with in terms of any important values on the world or in life?

Well, the only thing I could say to you is for everyone to open their heart to anyone, to help each other. Because that’s who we are. We cannot think about, “oh look at this person, oh look at this person, oh look how dirty this person is.” Give them your hand, help them, because without you there is not one else out there. Open up your heart. Don’t judge nobody. Respect each other. That’s about it. 

David, thank you so much for giving me so much time today. I truly appreciate it. 

You’re welcome. Thank you, and I’m sorry I took about an hour and a half. 

No, no that’s perfect. Thank you

[00:01:05]

End of Recording Five