Mom and Grad Student in Ohio

This mom and grad student lives in Ohio with her children and loves helping people. She reached out to Aid Access to proceed with a medical abortion. She discusses the process, as well as her experience at an anti-abortion center. She administers an abortion support group on Facebook and wants to serve as an example and support system for those seeking abortions.

“I am always open to anybody who might need a safe place, to need help, or to talk, or even just an advocate for them, I’m always a safe place.”
— Mom and Grad Student in Ohio

ANNOTATIONS

1. Co-Parenting - The divide in custody over children in a split between parents often has negative effects on a child’s life. Co-parenting is the process by which parents share custody of a child after divorce or separation. This type of parenting opposes the no-contact relationship between parents after a split; rather, co-parenting involves both parents keeping in touch in order to maintain the best environment for their children, regardless of the parents’ opinions towards each other. Typically, circumstances of co-parenting may involve the child alternating between which parent they live with for a designated amount of time, and the parents planning according to when the child will be with each parent. Co-parenting is a healthier alternative for parents so their child does not need to experience a lack of either parental figure in childhood. In order to participate in such a routine however, parents must maintain communication with each other and be able to reason beyond any emotions or harsh feelings they may have. The narrator mentions these struggles as she describes co-parenting as having “its ups and downs”. Despite the struggles, with the mature cooperation of both parents, the child can be entitled to healthier relationships.
2. Ohio's Abortion Access - In the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, the Supreme Court decided that the status of abortion was that it should be legal in the nation, and that it was protected by the right to privacy under the Fourteenth Amendment. According to the Center for Reproductive Rights, the decision supported an individual’s “rights to make personal decisions about family, relationships, and bodily autonomy.” However, on June 24, 2022, the original decision was overturned by the Supreme Court Dobbs v. Jackson decision, eliminating abortion as a constitutional right. As a consequence, the reproductive rights of a person were to be decided by each individual state rather than federally. After the decision, only a few individual states have chosen to keep abortion legal, while others have completely banned abortion or only made it accessible in circumstances of emergency. In Ohio, abortion resources were made available to those who were no farther than six weeks into their pregnancy. Other restrictions include no abortion access for a “genetic anomaly,” and that insurance would only cover abortions “only in cases of life endangerment, rape or incest” (Guttmacher Institute). However, after the November 2023 statewide elections, the amendment restricting abortion rights was overturned. As a result, the rights to abortion were made constitutional and allowed abortions to be performed after six weeks, which was prohibited before the 2023 election. Essentially, this change makes abortion accessible, and furthermore increases the maternal healthcare resources available for those who may be seeking abortions or general maternal healthcare providers. Even so, anti-abortion legislatures in Ohio continue to state that the fight to limit the access to reproductive care is not over.
3. Medical Abortion, Access to Healthcare - Mifepristone is the most commonly-used drug for medication-induced abortions. The function of mifepristone is to prevent the production of progesterone in a pregnant person’s body in order to stop the progression of a pregnancy. Typically, mifepristone is taken with misoprostol, however an individual can take misoprostol alone in order to terminate the pregnancy. These medications can be taken both orally and vaginally, however the narrator specifically recounts their experience taking the oral medication. Taking the medication orally can cause less bleeding and is harder to trace. The most common symptoms of the medication working include vaginal bleeding, cramping, clotting, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. For individuals residing in states where abortion is accessible, they can consult with their healthcare providers for more information. For individuals in states where abortion is banned, there are other options, such as Aid Access, an organization which is able to transport such medications from overseas in order to support those seeking an abortion. The narrator themselves had received help from Aid Access, and was provided a step-by-step information guide alongside discreet packaging.
4. Date-Rape Drugs, Sexual Assault - The term “roofying” refers to the process of using the date-rape drug, Rohpynol. Rohypnol is a sedative, depressant drug which causes “amnesia” and the victim may experience “relaxation or sedation of the body,” with “vomiting and headache[s]” (Brown). Capitalizing on their effects, date-rape drugs are often used in order to commit sexual assault. The most common way of encountering Rohypnol is through “spiked” drinks, most typically alcohol. Unfortunately, the traces of date-rape drugs tend to leave the body quickly and therefore make it difficult to report on date-rape drug-assisted assaults. As the narrator describes their experience of being assaulted, they also recall the fact that their perpetrator has been cleared of their assault charges. This is partially due to the usage of the Rohypnol, especially considering it becomes difficult to trace after a week. Oftentimes, affected victims are unaware of what had happened to them, or are hesitant to report their experience for reasons such as uncertainty or fear. The narrator encounters this type of fear and decides to not discuss their assault for many years.
5. Ectopic Pregnancy, Pre-Abortion Healthcare - The narrator discusses her need to get an ultrasound to ensure that she did not have an ectopic pregnancy. If a person has an ectopic pregnancy their medical abortion will not be effective. An ectopic pregnancy is where a fetus grows outside the uterus in a pregnancy, typically in the fallopian tubes instead of the uterus. This is a somewhat rare, but not uncommon complication that occurs during pregnancy, as 1 in 50 pregnant people experience an ectopic pregnancy in the United States. However, since the fertilized egg begins to grow outside the uterus, the growth brings forth many health risks, such as the rupture of a fallopian tube. Hence, it is important to identify such a condition before it is exacerbated in a pregnant person. Side effects of an ectopic pregnancy include bleeding, abdominal pain, and discomfort when using the bathroom. The most common methods of treating an ectopic pregnancy are using types of procedures that can be considered as abortions. For example, there exists a medication that is ingested in order to prevent the pregnancy from progressing at all. Another way to treat ectopic pregnancy is to surgically remove the fetus from its placement or, if it is located in a fallopian tube, the solution will often require removal of the whole tube. In these surgical procedures, there is a great impact on the pregnant person’s body, as they develop a high probability of not being able to become pregnant again without risks to the incisions or treated areas. In order to prevent extremities such as ruptures or heavy bleeding, an ultrasound is required. An ultrasound will be able to determine the location of the fetus in the womb, and it will contribute to figuring out the approach to handle the ectopic pregnancy.
6. Crisis Pregnancy Centers, Anti-Abortion Movements - Anti-Abortion centers, otherwise known as Crisis Pregnancy Centers (CPC), present themselves as a health resource that help people with their concerns regarding general health, pregnancy, child support, counseling, free ultrasounds, and, supposedly, abortion. Though these centers appear to be supportive of all areas of clinical aid, most CPCs promote anti-abortion notions and are interlinked with religious ideologies. Often times, many of the people who work at these centers are not medical licensed or have expired licenses. Their goal is to attempt to convince anyone interested in abortions to change their mind using biased counseling or displaying rare cases of death and abortion complications to frighten the patients away from the concept of abortion. Many of these crisis pregnancy centers have been spreading with, according to the Guardian, "many aiming to expand their capacity now that Roe v Wade has been overturned." The misinformation that these Crisis Pregnancy Centers provide can endanger many and ultimately are often unethical.
7. Abortion Support Groups - Post-Abortion support groups are organized by people who have had abortions or those that support the process and the right to have an abortion. Some abortion support groups have admins, like our narrator's, and some may not; abortion support groups can simply be a page where anyone can contribute at any time. Abortion is a personal choice and it is one that many people make, as shown by the narrator’s support group with 5.3 thousand women.The effects differ by person, but having a support system helps to not compound any complicated feelings one may have. As a result, these forums serve to provide an outlet for those who have had abortions to share their experiences, seek advice and guidance from others, or simply just join to demonstrate support.
8. Reporting Hesistancy - According to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, “One in five women and one in seventy-one men will be raped at some point in their lives." Sexual assault is unfortunately very common in society, and the effects of enduring such a difficulty are complex and extend beyond just the physical effects. A common consequence of rape or sexual assault is that many victims feel a sense of shame or guilt for an action that was not their fault. In most instances, people are unaware that their experiences may be considered assault. This is often because the perpetrator can be anyone, including a spouse or a partner. As a result, many assault cases go unreported, and some may face personal conflicts surrounding whether or not they should report. The narrator was hesitant in reporting their assault, but was able to do so upon hearing about the many other victims, including a child, that were assaulted by her perpetrator.
9. Asian Cultural Upbringing - Asian culture tends to hold many standards and values that have been preserved as traditions for generations. For example, it is a very important notion to respect elders of not just one’s family but of the community in general. These traditions carry the weight of generational expectations and familial pride, with the assurance that the future generations will respect and follow the words of the elders. These traditions often make it difficult for individuals to pursue their own personal inclinations, especially if they deviate from the typical lifestyle they are expected to uphold. Jennifer Lee and Min Zhou, in The New Yorker article “The Difficulty of Being a Perfect Asian American,” claim that “for no other [racial] group is the success frame defined as getting straight A’s, gaining admission into an elite university, getting a graduate degree, and entering’ into a coveted profession.” This exemplifies the difficulties of upholding such difficult and high-aiming standards, even if they are held with the best of intentions. However, as societies evolve, not all individuals conform to these age-old norms. In this context, the speaker's mother, described as a "black sheep," deviated from this tradition, prioritizing personal preferences over familial ambitions. The narrator even describes her as a “rebel”, claiming how some of those choices were out of spite. The narrator’s mother essentially challenges the stigma associated with non-traditional choices within Asian cultural upbringings. The narrator also addresses the relationship between them and their mother, and how it was difficult for her to open up, essentially hiding the childhood that makes her want to cater to it at a later age. The narrator’s mother’s decisions play a role in what inspires them to make their own bold choices and consider what may be best for themselves.

Transcript: “A lot of my family, the women in my family, when we watch that show, my mom would say that’s how it was for your grandmother or your aunt, especially, you know, marrying up is a huge thing in Asian culture is marrying up. You never want to marry down, um, which I think is why my mom was also a bit of a black sheep was that she was never interested in a different family, so that two families could combine to be more of a power family. She was very much a rebel, like, ‘I’m gonna date this guy, he’s a loser, but I’m gonna date him 'cause you don’t like him.’ Mom, and like I said, I don’t invalidate her feelings because when you’re young that’s just a totally different mindset, and one thing I get as an adult from my mom was cater to that inner child in her. I would often sit with her and say, ‘I want you to know that your experience as a child is valid. And if you’re okay to talk about it, I’m here for you.’ And if you’re a daughter who had a tumultuous relationship with a mom like that, and you say that to her, it is– the silence that you will get is incredible. Um, but my mom did open up to me and that was like a huge bonding moment for us, was that experience for her.”

Learn More: Hua Hsu, “The Difficulty of Being a Perfect Asian American,” The New Yorker, March 10, 2022.

Learn More [2]: Cynthia Kim Beglin, “Why Are the Elderly So Revered in Asia?,” Psychology Today, July 21, 2016.

Learn More [3]: “Asian and Pacific Islanders,” National Healthy Marriage Resource Center (blog), accessed April 22, 2024.

10. Teen Pregnancies, Mental Health - Teen parenting can often be difficult as some individuals can struggle due to the pressure of taking care of themselves and a child while they are young. This scenario can often lead to significant mental stress and sometimes an inability to properly cope with the circumstances. Moreover, beyond the parents’ mental health and wellbeing, the life and mental state of the child can be affected immensely as well. In difficult situations, a parent may experience overwhelming emotions such as stress and fatigue. Consequently, the difficulties affect both the mental health of the parent, as well as the growth and stability of the child. Though this is not the case in all teen parenting environments, there do exist circumstances where the teen parent may struggle to take care of themselves alongside their child. The narrator depicts the struggle that their teen mother faced by explaining that they both “learned” as they went, both as child and parent and in adolescence and adulthood.

TRANSCRIPT

Interview conducted by Dan Swern

Interview conducted remotely

August 26, 2023

Transcription by Chrissy Briskin

Annotations by Aishwarya Vijayakumar

00:00

Uh, today is Saturday, August 26, 2023, it’s 11:11 am Eastern Time, uh, my name is Dan Swern. I am conducting this interview virtually, and I’m here interviewing–

Hi my name is [Redacted].

Uh, [Redacted], thank you so much for taking the time to do this project and meet with me, it’s, uh, it’s been a really great journey with you. Um, so just whenever you’re ready, just please feel free to start from the beginning.

Okay, so I just like to preface this with my mom’s an incredible woman, so when I tell you the story about my mother, please just don’t view her in any type of negative light, as she had me when she was 15, so she was learning as we all learn through life. Um, so my mom was 15 when she had me. I was born on [Redacted], in Virginia. Um, I was the only child to my mom. It was a pretty interesting journey with her, um, like I said, she was 15 when she had me. She was raised in a very strict Asian mixed culture, so Catholicism was a huge influence on her family. And teen pregnancy is not something that is on the priority list of supportiveness in such a family dynamic, so she was very much outcasted by the family. I was raised a lot by my grandparents and my aunt. I do have memories of often going to a lot of different houses. My mom would have me very inconsistently. Toward the end, I want to say in my early teen years, is when I remember more consistently became a thing for me, because a lot of my childhood was pretty dramatic– traumatic and dramatic. I guess they are very interchangeable for this. Um, and she, uh, married the guy that I had considered my stepfather for a long time. They’d been married for ten plus years and their divorce was based off an affair. Um, so up until that point, life was a little up and down for me, um, before my mom got married, she had a lot of tumultuous relationships, so the way I viewed love was not what love really is, um, there was not a lot of consistency. If there was consistency that I saw it was a lot of arguing and toxicity, a lot of toxic masculinity, and a lot of, um, overthinking on my mother’s part. Just a lot of abuse in general, so as an only child, you see these things, you view love from how you see the environment that you grow up in, and the environment I grew up in was just very toxic, so yeah, from the beginning it was kind of built to fail. Um, fast forward to, I wanna say, in my teen years– really into my young adult years, yeah, my mom and I kind of grew up in more of like a sister dynamic than a mother/daughter bond. I wish we could have built that mother/daughter bond, but I will say for anybody that is watching this, if you ever had a [unclear] mother experience, I really hope it does get better for you 'cause in the last, I wanna say six years, my mother and I have worked really, really hard to build that mother/daughter bond, and it takes a lot of forgiveness and patience but it can really be done, especially if you keep in mind that teen mothers, teen parents in general, they’re just– they’re learning as they go and, like I said before, we are too. And I didn’t reach out to my mom until I became a mother and I experienced what she did. Which is kind of what brought me here to reach out to, uh, coLAB about the whole abortion thing, 'cause I felt like at one point in my life I used to think, like, cognitive dissonance, like, abortion was just wrong? You know, murder, things like that, but then as I got older and more smart, I realized different things and different stories of people’s lives. You really can’t judge anybody until it happens to you. So, back to the story is that, um, my mom and I, we had moments after her divorce. I was pregnant with my first child who is now 10. Um, a wonderful kid, I do have five children who are incredible children, but my mom– sorry, I keep getting notifications– give me one second. Can I pause? Is it okay? What?

[Annotation 10]

[[Redacted] pauses to talk to her child]

 Okay, so when I was talking I was pregnant with my first one when my mom got divorced and–

[[Redacted] speaks to her child]  you can play with this.

Um, and so that was, that was an experience, 'cause they were married for ten plus years, together for several years beyond that, and so she was going through a divorce and experiencing my first pregnancy. Um, we kind of went our separate ways for several years when that happened because she– she had to experience that herself, just like I had to experience my own. I’m so sorry. [[Redacted] pauses and moves to another room]

05:38

Um, so her divorce was very hard on her. She kind of went through a moment where I called it a quarter life crisis for her, um, now they call it living your best life or a hoe phase. It’s just kind of what she bum rushed into and that was okay, um, so my first pregnancy I didn’t really have that included mother-figure that a lot of women, you know, you see on Facebook, they have like the maternity shoots and the recordings of like telling my mom she’s going to be a grandmother for the first time. I never had any of that and so I missed out on that, um, I actually moved to [Redacted] during that time frame near the end of my pregnancy and my first was born down in [Redacted]. I didn’t talk to my mom. I say didn’t talk to my mom for at least five to six years. She didn’t meet my first born until actually my second was born. My son was born in [Redacted], so it was an interesting meeting to say the least and that’s kind of where the fruition of rekindling that bond with my mom started and it was very, very [unclear]. So, I’m trying to think of things in the timelines and where I was at. I was in [Redacted], um, the father of my four kids, we had actually known each other since high school. He was the guy in class that when you look at it from the teen perspective, he’s the funny class clown, will do anything, always in trouble kind of guy, but when you look at it from an adult perspective now, it’s like probably not a great pick for you to have kids with. Um, you know he is a good dad. We had a very tumultuous relationship, one that very much reflected the ones that I grew up seeing, to me I thought it was love when it was very much infatuation and just toxic bonding with each other. We were together for seven years, we did know each other in high school, we grew up around the same friends, he is the father of four of my kiddos, uh, we do have a decent co-parenting relationship and co-parenting relationships they take a lot of work, so if you’re watching this and you are experiencing co-parenting, it is never linear it has its ups and downs but you learn to get through it with each other. Um, one of the hardest things I ever did was learn to co-parent somebody who was very, very hyper-independent and very stubborn and strong willed and so is their dad, very stubborn and strong willed. Um, we had broken up after seven years and we had actually– we weren’t together for the last two of our children, so I have four girls and one son, sorry, three girls and the one son with him, and then my younger five is a little girl. Him and I were not together for the last two of my pregnancies, so co-parenting through that was very interesting in and of itself, uh fast forward to my number five, her father is not in the picture, him and I actually met offline I want to say right in the middle of Covid, or right at the tail end of Covid, when the world was kind of opening up again, um, gosh it was, I don’t want to call it a charity case, I don’t know if I was just feeling very kind, he wasn’t a bad person when I met him. I genuinely think he has good intentions for people, and I know Lizzo is in hot water, but when she said, “Why do men, why are they great til they have to be great?” That was the epitome of my number five’s, uh, biological father, is that he was great ‘til he had to be great, and that was when she was born, and that was when his true colors he really shared. So when they say that people can really mask who they are until they’re kind of pushed out of their comfort zone, it’s very true 'cause he is a textbook narcissist. I actually went to therapy after our relationship ended and he is very much a textbook narcissist. A lot of gaslighting, he never physically abused me, I can be thankful for that, but he is not in the picture for her, which is totally okay, um, he has a lot of growing up to do, and I don’t want to talk bad about anybody because everyone goes through their own battles and everyone’s feelings are valid, um, I do hope that he gets better as a person. He did battle alcoholism, and I know that addiction and sobriety are really difficult journeys for people so I always wish that he does that for him himself, but we do not talk and he’s not in the picture for her.

[Annotation 1]

11:18

Um, fast forward a little bit to, you know, me reaching out to Aid Access and being here, initially, um, I had been dating this guy. Currently we’re still together for a little bit over, close to a year now. Um, really, really great guy, and when you see things online that say healthy relationship will often feel boring after several years of toxic relationships. They are not lying. When me and my boyfriend, his name’s [Redacted], started dating, um, to my knowledge he had never really experienced toxic upbringings. Like, he comes from a two family home, a two parent home, he got to see a two family dynamic, which is so beyond rare, and it was a two home– two home– two parent dynamic in a healthy setting so he, when we got together, I was used to always fighting or, you know, vying for attention or being very dramatic. When I tell you if you are someone who grew up in toxic households and you are so used to fighting and fighting and fighting, it takes you by surprise when your partner sits down and says, “Can we talk about this? Like, let’s talk about this, I’m open, I’m here for you,” and words that he uses are like, “I understand where you’re coming from and your feelings are very, very valid. I want to learn your boundaries, I want to learn your communication style,” and having a supportive and emotionally supportive partner like that is incredible. Like, I am just floored that people like this exist and he is this incredible guy, um, and obviously nobody’s perfect, and like his little things that could be annoying are really, they’re just never severe. Any fight that we have, he’ll sit down and he will talk for hours if I have to and if he can feel it, even if I get triggered several months later, I’ve learned to talk about it, like, “I know we got past this, but I’m triggered again,” and he will do whatever he can to ensure that it’s okay and that I’m supported. I really hope that people can experience this type of relationship and love at least once in their life because it will give you a whole new vision on the world and people in general, because if there’s one thing a toxic upbringing can do to somebody it’s– it’s kind of give them a negative outlook on people and to just not like people. I really hope that can happen for people which brings me to we had an uh oh. There was a time this year where I was like, “my period’s late,” and I’ll never forget it, I think he was kind of in a delusion, 'cause I sent him a picture of the test and I have an iPhone, I don’t have a ProMax, I just have a normal iPhone, I sent him the photo in real vision, it’s a very faint pink line, so when you sent it over the phone it looks like a negative pregnancy test, and I probably shouldn’t have done that, I probably should have waited, but I was like, “I can’t have another kid right now, the economy is insane.”  I was like, “I really, really like you,” but we were, to me the relationship was still kind of fresh and new and I didn’t want to throw a baby into that 'cause that’s just not fair to anybody. And I knew my body enough to know that I needed to take a test, something was off, I’m not typically this late, and I want to say I was like a week late. Um, I sent him the test, he ended up coming down to my apartment that night and we waited two or three days and took another test and it was positive and, um, I live in Ohio, and Ohio’s abortion laws, they’re always a tug of war. They do not make it easy, um, so this was my experience with that, we sat down, we decided it’s not time for a baby.

[Annotation 2]

15:49

This was, he even said, he was like, “Whatever you decide, I’ll support.” Obviously he was more on the side of abortion because I have five kids, I live in an apartment, the economy is just really hard right now. And it just would not be fair to anybody to bring a child into such a world where, you know, it’s not livable at the time or even currently. So we decided on that. I went online and I will tell you when you first type in “help for abortion” Aid Access is not the first thing that comes up. Um, actually the more unaffordable options are, and no shade to Planned Parenthood, but I didn’t have $600 for an abortion pill. Um, so I was very panicky, I reached out to some of my girlfriends and told them the situation, and it was actually my friend [Redacted] who sent me a list, I think it’s called Plan C website, and it shows you a bunch of options for you. Amazing site. I highly encourage anybody who is experiencing a possible need for an abortion, reach out, look for, like, really big into Google, because I would have never found that site if it wasn’t for my friend. Plan C shows you several different options like, um, I was looking for the pill, 'cause at that point I was only like five weeks, so I didn’t want to go through the experience of a surgical abortion, um, 'cause I didn’t want to experience going to a clinic, and everyone’s familiar with going to a clinic, they are protested in [Redacted], they are in abundance, and they are scary. So I got everything offline, there are several different options out there that range from $150 all the way up to I want to say maybe $350. Um, obviously as a single mom with one income, I was like I need to go the cheapest route, and then I saw Aid Access. When I tell you it was like angels singing, it was like angels singing. Incredible, incredible organization. Of course I did my research and there was nothing negative at all. Obviously you have your typical fear mongering people that are like, “They get their pills from India, their doctors are from Austria, don’t trust it, it’s going to come, it’s gonna look like drug deals.” Very religious push, don’t let this thing scare you. Um, they were very helpful. I did have to email a couple times, I did email over a weekend, don’t recommend emailing during a weekend. I one hundred percent recommend emailing during business days and business hours because it was faster, it was easier to get a response during those times than the weekend, 'cause during the weekend emails get pushed down the inbox. They– I was nervous that they were going to say, “Okay well here’s some pills, just take them,” but actually they were very concerned and they were like, “Hey, you know, did you get an ultrasound, and make sure that it was not ectopic?” Because something I didn’t know was that if it’s an ectopic pregnancy the pill wouldn’t be effective or it could, um, not have a full abortion, or it could cause more issues than what you’re wanting. So they highly encourage an ultrasound, and once I saw that I was like, “okay I need to make sure that it’s not ectopic.” So I faked and went to my emergency room with my boyfriend and said, “I’m having very severe cramping,” they asked a million questions, and I was there for over six hours, I did get an ultrasound, you won’t be able to see the screen in an emergency room, um, it’s just for your safety and I think it’s by law. I didn’t get to see the ultrasound,  but I did get to read the results. Um, let me reverse back here. I went to the emergency room, I said I was cramping really bad and that I thought I might be having a miscarriage. I lied to get the ultrasound and I’m not ashamed to say that because in a state such as Ohio where you’re not really sure if you’re supported or not I was going to just keep myself safe and I wasn’t willing to say, “I’m getting an abortion, I just want to make sure that everything’s okay.” They wouldn’t give you and ultrasound for that, actually the steps in Ohio to do that are you have to schedule a counseling meeting, two of them, and then I don’t know if you have to do the ultrasound or not, but I did have a friend who got an abortion last year she had to go to two counseling sessions and I feel like they purposely scheduled it out long enough to where she almost couldn’t get the abortion.

[Annotation 5]

20:49

So in that sense I did not feel supported and I just went the faster way and said, “I think I’m having a miscarriage. I’m cramping really bad.” I did get the ultrasound. Everything was placed fine, um, but I was early enough, they actually couldn’t detect a fetal heartbeat, so they measured it at five weeks, six days, so I was like, “okay.” And that kind of brought a wave of relief for me that there was just like no heartbeat, it was literally just a blob at that point, you know? It’s like, “okay, cool, I can get this done.” Um, I think I spent like six to seven hours there, it was a very exhausting time. Um, they did call once or twice to see if I was okay, and I think they were just, they were just trying to figure out if I was having a miscarriage or not. Um, I ended up leaving, just walking out after the ultrasound, and I just kind of got up and I left, um, my kids were waiting and it was a Friday and I had to drive them up to go to their dad. Um, but I did get the reassurance that it was not ectopic, um, I did email Aid Access and I let them know that it wasn’t ectopic, um, then I paid through PayPal, my PayPal, USA is US dollars, but it had to be paid in Euros, so I was able to do that kind of, um, the word’s escaping me when you go from US dollars to Euros. You know what I’m talking about? They– they– oh my goodness, I feel so dumb now. I guess they translated it to currency exchange. Thank you, they did the currency exchange and, for me, I believe it was $55, 'cause I did tell Aid Access when the exchange with Aid Access was, “I need help getting an abortion, I’d like to get the pill route.” They emailed me back, they wanted to ensure that I got an ultrasound and everything, and then they emailed again and said it would be $155, and if I could cover that and I said I need financial help. Um, now I will say that Aid Access on their website, when I had gone to it, they don’t explicitly say, “We will help you financially,” but they do say, “if you can’t cover the cost, we will help you.” So really take advantage of that if you don’t have the funds like I did, like I didn’t. I did tell them, I was like, “I don’t have the full $155, $150, but I can help pay some.” They said, “okay, can you pay $50, $55?” “Absolutely.” Um, I want to say the whole email exchange was two to three days, um, and I did have to email once or twice to get an email back, and I feel like most of that was anxiety driven 'cause I wanted to get this done. Um, they sent me a tracking, as soon as I sent the payment, I will say the payment was nervous for me 'cause it’s to a different country, but it’s PayPal and I trust PayPal. I want to say within twelve hours of the payment I got a tracking number. Now if you’re familiar with tracking, once you print out a label that’s when the tracking starts and it did say label printed. And my label was printed for about a day or two, and then I got a prescription an online prescription from a doctor in Austria and then my pills were sent. Now the craziest thing that was strange, but I didn’t dig into it because I was getting what I needed, was the pills are actually from New York City, they’re from New York, and I thought it was pretty cool that I feel like there’s just a network working to keep everyone safe that’s involved, and that you get help from other countries and your pills are close to you. Now they did tell me that since you are in Ohio, it could take, um, I want to say they said six to eight weeks, four to six weeks or six to eight weeks, so I was prepared for that, and that’s why I ordered it so soon because of the five weeks now, I need to get this done so that I’m still in the realm of ability. Um, my pills actually came within a week. I kept tracking it, I probably looked like I was addicted to my cell phone with how much I was tracking it. It did come from New York, it came in a little package, discreet packaging, I did everything correctly, I had my boyfriend with me, he’s incredible, supportive boyfriend, it was a two day process, um, and what I really liked about dealing with Aid Access was that after I received my pills, they actually emailed me and they checked on me, and I thought that was– that was a pivotal moment for me with Aid Access was that they had a network, and it– in an organization that’s not at all supported really, they still reached out to people, and I can’t imagine the number of women who reach out to them for help a day.

26:02

Um, I admin an abortion support group, patient support group, that’s, um, 5.3 thousand women, and everyday we get hundreds of messages and anonymous posts, and women just seeking help and I can’t imagine. That's just a Facebook group. An organization such as Aid Access, they really take the time to reach out to you. They emailed me two or three times, “How are you doing? Is everything okay?” And that’s actually how I got on to this coLAB. They said they are looking for people to talk about their story and at first I was hesitant, I was like, “Oh, I don’t know,” but then I was like, “you know, staying silent doesn’t help anybody feel supported, and if you go to the coLAB website, you’ll see that it’s full of some really brilliant beautiful minds.” You have amazing descriptions for things that they support and honestly the layout itself is just very easy on the eyes.  I love it, it’s not loud, it’s not in your face, it’s just very easy reading. And I highly encourage to really if you’re dealing with Aid Access and you get the opportunity to talk to Daniel and his team, you will, one, feel very comfortable and really well supported and heard and seen and just, like, you know, they stand with you in solidarity in your experience. Um, but overall with Aid Access it was a really good experience and I always talk about them, um, and it encouraged me to become part of the group that I help admin because there’s just so many women and if I, you know, protect their privacy of course, I will say that all ages of women you’ll hear that it’s always teens that need an abortion, but you’d be surprised to see so many women aging from 40 to below always seeking help, and there are so many organizations, like the Let Them Live organization, and they will try to infiltrate the groups and just go after you. They go right for the jugular, they will leave comments on public posts and they will reach out to your family and your job, and they will go as far as to leave reviews, if you have a business, they will leave reviews on your Google page which are seen, and the one thing about admining that group is that we’ve had to go through so much extreme steps to protect the privacy of our members to where I have PDFs of how to lock down your profile, your Instagram, your Facebook, how to delete and block people without having to go to their profile to find them. Um, I’ve had to kind of dox one of the Let Them Live advocates because she was borderline harassing a lot of our members. She went to such great lengths that she made an entire fake account to act like she worked for Facebook to get us to convince us that she could help us “block” the bad people but she’s– it was kind of like a sick game, and I’m not sure of the mentality behind the extreme anti-abortion movement, but it’s very concerning and not something I would ever suggest to battle by yourself because they are very scary group of people. Um, so that was one of the bigger pushes for me to be a part of this project because I just– there’s power in numbers and I just want them to know that we’re here and we’re not afraid of them, and I will always support Aid Access, and all of the organizations like them, always support women who need these type of things for whatever reason they want to get an abortion. Like any reason to get an abortion is a good reason whatever it is.

[Annotation 7]

30:09

Um, so that, that’s my experience with Aid Access and, I don’t know, do you have any other questions for me? I’m open.

Yeah [Redacted], while we’re talking about it, I’m wondering if you might be open to, uh, share a couple of things: one, if you could talk about your experience with contraception, what you use now and what you’ve used in the past, and then also if you can give us some, a clinical description of what it’s like to take Misoprostol and Mifepristone.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So the contraceptive that I use now, I do use the pill, two of my kids were born on birth control so it’s not 100% effective for me unfortunately. Um, unfortunately that didn’t work, but fortunately I love my kids, uh, so we just do condoms right now and natural family planning, which is just a natural route to check your body temperatures and just, kind of like, a lot of women will understand this, it’s a little bit more difficult to explain for guys, but it’s just kind of checking in on your body to see if you’re ovulating. If you’re ovulating, obviously if you want to have a baby, you can have sex during that time frame, but if not, then you kind of– you refrain from it or you use condoms, Plan B. I’ve used Plan B and the morning after pill once since my abortion, sorry twice. Uh, and I know that Plan B isn’t a form of contraceptive, but it is a safety net, um, so I have– I have that in stock just in case. My experience with the abortion pills, the first one I took, uh, so let me backtrack. When you get the pills– when I got the pills from Aid Access, they give you an entire printout of here’s what you’ve got, here’s what to do. They give you, like, step by step by step and they do suggest taking some pain medicine about thirty minutes before both of the pills, which I did do. The first one I didn’t have any feeling, I did take it, I took it with water. I was all planned out, my boyfriend came down, he brought chocolate and heating pads and pain killers and comfy socks, and we had a movie carousel of things we wanted to watch. I took the first pills, and you’re supposed to take the second set twenty-four to seventy-two hours after. I waited almost exactly twenty-four hours. Now you can take them vaginally or under your tongue, in your cheek, and I did the cheek one. I will say while they don’t have exactly a taste, there is a texture like you’re eating chalk almost toward the end, you have to let them sit in your mouth until they are completely dissolved and then you can swallow the remnants. That part was a little bit more difficult, 'cause I kind of felt like a salivating dog, 'cause they’re just sitting there and there’s four pills you have to let dissolve and they’re little, probably about the size of a Motrin, but four of them sitting in your cheek and you can’t swallow anything until they’re completely dissolved is a little bit rough. I wanna say within two hours of that was when the bleeding started. The cramping, now I have a bit of a high pain tolerance, so the cramping to me just felt like a bit of a heavier flow period. Other women’s experiences are a little bit more chilling if you don’t have a very high pain tolerance it can be pretty painful, especially if you’re alone, so I always suggest having somebody there to support you. Um, I sat in a bathtub and– a warm bathtub and that helped a lot. Once the cramping and bleeding started, I bled for about a week and a half. I want to say heavily I bled, heavily for about four days. I want to say the postpartum pads were a Godsend and Aid Access did check in often through that time and they just said, “If you’re expelling clots that are bigger than a golf ball consistently, please go to the ER.” And they do say for your safety they say, “Say you’re having a miscarriage,” 'cause a hospital can actually trace back if you used the abortion pill vaginally, but if you do it through the mouth, they can’t. But still just to be safe, say you’re miscarrying, they can’t differentiate the two. Um, I didn’t have any of that experience thankfully, um, I took the four pills, and on the Aid Access website they have a chart of if you’re, like, eight weeks or less you can just take the four pills, if you’re over eight weeks, take the other four.

[Annotation 3]

35:07

Um, you get twelve of the second set of pills, um, to do the whole process. I only had to take four of them because I was only five weeks at this stage. If I was more than eight weeks I would have taken another set of four and then waited four hours and then taken the last two, uh, the last four. I didn’t have to do that, everything was actually expelled within a two and half, three day timeframe. The whole process was about three days for me. And the bleeding, like I said, was about two weeks, and then it kind of tapered off, going into the third week is when it kind of tapered off and I could just wear just a normal pad. Um, that’s why I was like I’m not sure if I’m menstruating and, um, periods after that, it took about nine weeks for my period to come back to normal, and I did have positive pregnancy tests for about six weeks after that. I know online it’ll say everything should be out by two weeks, I would not believe that because I had positive tests for six weeks, and it did make me concerned, um, but it was a fading positive, which I never thought was a real thing until I had the abortion. But, um, my experience wasn’t bad, and I know everyone’s experience can be a little bit different, so I would just say if you have a high pain tolerance, your experience will probably be pretty similar, but if you don’t have a high pain tolerance, I would probably suggest a surgical abortion, because of what I’ve gathered from the group and from online research is that it’s a little bit more quick and you can be sedated for it, so you don’t feel anything, but you, it’ll get everything done. You’ll still bleed, but if you don’t want to just kind of feel anything and just want to get it done with, I would definitely suggest the surgical abortion. But if you’re someone like me, who, like I said, is hyper-independent and I want to be in control of myself, uh, the medical abortion was not at all bad.

Um, [Redacted], there is something you said that I wanted to ask about. You expressed concern about taking it, you wanted to take it orally so that it couldn’t be determined whether or not you had gotten an abortion, have you anecdotally heard about OBGYNs reporting individuals at–

I have not, but I will say thank you for asking that because I did, um, I reached out to my OBGYN. I have a very good relationship with my OBGYNs, they delivered three of my children, um, there is one in specific that is very supportive of women, she is– she is like the Joan of Arc of women, she is so supportive, um, I told her that I had– was thinking about an abortion. I didn’t confide in her that I had an abortion, I told her I was thinking about it, and I just wanted to know about it. And she did tell me, she was like, “[Redacted], I cannot assist you with this, but I will send you any information you need. I will send you organizations that can help you, and–“  but she did make it very obvious that she couldn’t help me. Now, do I think that they would report it? I can’t say for sure, 'cause a lot of the OBs in this network– in Ohio there’s networks of them so there’s never just the one unless it’s private, but there’s usually teams of them, and so individuals, I can’t say that they wouldn’t or that they would or wouldn’t. But I think the one that I spoke to, Idon’t think she ever would, um, I do know that, uh, a lot of organizations that are kind of like, they carry a Christ-believing mission statement, I would probably steer clear from those. Um, I will say that I did go to a pregnancy center, 'cause that’s where I wanted to get my ultrasound first, 'cause they offered free ones. I went to a pregnancy center and online they really tote that they support women and their choices, but once I got in there and I did tell them that I was thinking of abortion, the woman in the room started crying. And I said, “Are you okay?” And she goes, “I just don’t believe in this.” So another woman came in. And I was like, “Oh God, I’m trapped.” This is supposed to be a pregnancy center. It is not a pregnancy center, it is an anti-abortion center. So I definitely walked in there trapped. So this woman comes in, she goes, “You know an abortion can kill you.” The first thing she says is, “an abortion can kill you.” And she’s like, “I’ve had one, it was the most traumatic experience of my life.” And she was like twelve weeks when she did it. And I was like, “I’m very sorry for your experience, but that is just not a common thing for abortions.” And she was like, “This is dangerous, you can–“ I had brought two of my kids with me into the pregnancy center and she was like, “You have beautiful children and we can help support you.” The biggest push from them was that they would help support me so I could keep the pregnancy.

[Annotation 6]

40:42

And when I said, “I’m just not interested in having a baby right now,” I will never forget that she looked me dead in the eye and she was like, “Well maybe you should tie your tubes.” I was– I was kind, I was courteous, I was like, “I appreciate your input. Let’s go ahead and schedule the ultrasound,” because the only way out of this was just being kind, and just kind of killing them with kindness. Scheduled the ultrasound, and never showed up obviously. They gave me this little goody bag, and in the goody bag was this little squishy rubber baby and she was like, “This is how big your baby is.” And I was like, “that is weird” and I was just like squishing it, I gave it to my kid to play with, I was just like, “here.” Um, so definitely be very cautious about the pregnancy centers. I don’t suggest going there because although I held it together in there, as soon as I got out, me and my boyfriend, we were FaceTiming and I just kind of, I had like a blank look and he was like, “Are you okay?” And I was like, “I feel like a monster,” like they– they really make it out to seem like you are just committing a crime. Um, I’m very strong-willed so I was just kind of like, “Alright, these bitches are crazy. Don’t ever go there.” Um, but I know for other people that experience or want to go through an abortion, that type of experience could really scare them into going through with a pregnancy that they don’t want, so I definitely do not recommend pregnancy centers unless it says, “offering abortion support,” forgot to mention that.

Um, [Redacted], I’m curious if you could share a little bit more of your own story. Could you tell us a little about what it was like to grow up in Virginia and what your grandparents were like, what did they do? What did you do for fun? Did you get into trouble? Those kinds of things.

Um, so I was a weird kid, I think I was weird. Um, mostly because I moved around a lot. So if my mom had a boyfriend, we moved. I lived in [Redacted], and I’ve lived in [Redacted], I’ve lived in [Redacted], I’ve lived in [Redacted], and a lot of them were just driven by my mom having boyfriends. My grandparents, my grandfather was in the military, he was in the Marines, and my grandmother was a registered nurse at a retirement home and she was wonderful. Wonderful people. Um, my upbringing with them was actually just very relaxed and down to Earth, um, my– what they say about grandparents treat their grandchildren a lot different than their own children is very true. Um, I never really had to do a lot. Like, I don’t ever remember, you know, getting hit or spanked or yelled at by my grandparents. You know, for fun, I grew up in a– when I lived with my grandparents, the neighborhood had a lot of kids, and I have one or two friends from that timeframe still. Um, so I’m 34 now, I do have one or two lifelong friends from when I lived in Virginia, um, it was just, it was like one of those textbook happy childhoods, those moments in my life with them. Um, but then bouncing around with my mom, my experiences were not that great, you know, we– there were times where, you know, I’d be in elementary school and I’d get pulled in by the guidance counselor and a police officer, and they would ask me, you know, if my mom’s around or treating me okay, or if the boyfriend was safe and whatnot, because I would draw pictures. You know, to a child, you draw your pictures and you think it’s okay, you think it’s the beautiful picture, but oftentimes the picture would be my mom crying on the floor or bruised up and a guy just standing over her. So a lot of times I would bounce from my mom to relatives or my mom would move in with a relative to try to stay actively in my life. So I can commend her for that. Um, and I think through that experience in her life was just her trying to learn how to navigate filling the void of having a family. I will never blame my mom for being a victim of the abuses that she experienced because, as I said before, she was learning, and I think a lot of single parents really want to fill a void of a family. Um, so I think those were just a lot of her attempts at having a family dynamic for herself and for me, and unfortunately a lot of times the system had to get involved in kind of keeping the child safe. So, you know, their motive was the child’s best interest where my mom’s motive was, I can protect my child but it could come with me becoming a victim. I’m such a huge advocate for my mom because of my mom that it’s better to always go home than to go down in a casket 'cause staying in the situations could just really end your life. And sometimes I look back at some of the memories and I just can’t believe that she didn’t die. Um, give me one second, there’s a dog barking.

46:33

Uh, so growing up in Virginia was really fun, [Redacted], I’ve lived in [another state] which all I remember about [Redacted] was how cold it was. It was just very, if I could give filters to these states, I would say [Redacted] was the filter that makes a very pale and highlights the redness and just very cold. There was nothing inviting about [Redacted] to me. Um, in [another state], that’s where my mom was with one of the most abusive men I’ve ever witnessed, um, that’s where my mom was with one of the most abusive men I’ve ever met in my life, and he still to this day is still trying to reach out to her and he’s actually found me on Facebook a time or two and, you know, my mom, when you’re a victim of abuse, like any type of abuse, your abuser is terrifying to you. And I was young when I saw her abuse, but now that I’m an adult, he had reached out to me, I wasn’t scared of him. I stood up to him, and I said, “You need to leave my mother alone. If you don’t, it will not end well for you.” You know, you– when you, like, watch your parent get abused and stuff, you– it just like naturally occurs to protect them. And I haven’t talked to him since, but he’s probably one of the most dangerous men walking this planet. He was probably six foot four, probably about 320 pounds, he– I’ll never forget it, there was a time where he threw my mom down these huge steps in the townhome we had and he punched out one of the windows, and my mom was– we were about to leave and he punched out the window and he acted like he was dying, and he picked up a handful of broken glass and swallowed it. My mom immediately went to his side, 'cause, you know, she was like, okay, I was safe in the car, and she went to go help him and she didn’t come out. She didn’t come back out, and I’ll never forget this Jeep, a group drove up and it was just– I can’t remember if it was a bunch of guys or if it was co-ed, but there was like three or four people in there and they called the cops, and I wasn’t allowed to go in the townhome, but after that it was all a blur, and that’s how I knew it was traumatic for me, 'cause my mom, there’s photos from the following Christmas and she’s wearing a turtleneck but you can see that she has huge bruises going up her neck and a bruise on her eye. And my mom in the photo stack has those photos, she keeps them 'cause I’m in the photo, but she had blacked out his whole image is blacked out with permanent marker, but she has those photos turned face down, um, and it’s definitely a memory that I have that I tried for a long time to black out, but I think it’s important to discuss those things for just an awareness that if you’re somebody who, I know it’s fun to joke about mental illness as an adult woman, and a lot of women are like, “Oh I’m petty and toxic,” and they think it’s the cutest thing, and I get it, sometimes it’s fun, it’s good for likes and views, but when you really do suffer through that and you think something’s wrong with you, there’s nothing wrong with you, especially if you grew up in an environment that all it offered you was toxicity. You think that’s normal and when you do get out, like I mentioned, I had a really healthy relationship, when you get out of that toxicity of your surroundings, it’s scary. It is like a culture shock. I think with a lot of, you know, like, self help and therapy, a therapist especially, and just having a good set of support system, like friends, it helps you navigate that this isn’t normal and I need to, kind of like, upgrade my mentality that good people do exist, and I think it just really comes down to having hope that it can be better for you and that you do deserve healthy good things in life.

 51:08

I can’t think of the other part of the question, my grandparents, oh, my grandmother liked gardening, so cooking and gardening, and she taught me how to cook, um, she taught me how to garden. My grandfather was a tinkerer, like, I’m not kidding his garage was entirely just tinker, just things disassembled, and he really liked seeing how things worked. Um, so that’s pretty cool 'cause he taught me how to build a computer, he taught me how to take down a computer, um, he taught me how to change a tire, he taught me how to do an oil change, all those things in basic, like um, life courses, he taught me how to do. I have a huge family, my mom is one of sixteen children, but I’ve only met eight of them. I think the rest of them are in the Philippines. So my mom is an immigrant. She came here when she was seven. Um, so she, my childhood immigration, of course they asked to court immigration to the T. My family is huge. I have over seventy cousins, so when living with my grandparents there was always a baby around, there was always a baby around, um, so I kind of learned how to step into kind of being a caretaker at a really, really young age, and I kind of think that made me grow up a lot faster, beyond the experiences that I had to go through with my mom. Um, just always being around children and adults and pregnant women, I just always had to know how to take care of a child 'cause I was babysitting when I was 7, 7 to 12, even if I was just coming to visit from out of town, my aunt who has seven kids would be like, “Hey I need to go to Walmart, can you watch the kids?” Not knowing that that’s code word for watch the kids for like three hours while I go take a break. Um, didn’t appreciate that, and I have my own kids and now I know, the Walmart back then trip is now a Target trip for us. It’s like the break is needed, but, you know, the maternal practice in me was instilled in me at a very young age. That was my experience as far as like living with my grandparents and my family, um, my aunts and uncles, I have, uh, an uncle who is part of the LGBTQIA+ community as well as two aunts, they do live out of state, but I know they kind of keep to themselves, um, there wasn’t– I don’t want to say there was like any huge pivotal moments with my, like, family history just they all, if you’ve ever seen the movie, The Joy Luck Club, incredible movie, I would suggest, worth every award that its’ gotten. I watch it often, if you ever watch The Joy Luck Club, I like that it goes into every experience every woman has, and that’s kind of how I view my aunts and uncles is that they all have had their own experience and the human experience of this lifetime, 'cause I’m calm, but when we all come together, it’s just a huge loving family, nobody throws venom at each other, and if there’s ever tension, it’s always the little old man, who now would be my Uncle [Redacted], who just stops everybody like, “Okay, everybody love each other.” My mom was the one who was always bringing different guys to the family functions, um, I forgot what sister that was that did that in The Joy Luck Club, but she was always dating and it was always some white guy, always a white guy, a nice white guy. Um, my aunt was the artsy fartsy one who, you know, in The Joy Luck Club one of them, the daughter, when she shows her mom her home, her mom goes, “It’s really cold in here,” it’s just very, the theme was industrial chic, it was just very like grays, and stone and metal.

55:34

That’s my aunt for sure, and then my other aunt who has the several kids, she is definitely the one who, um, she kind of resembles the main character of The Joy Luck Club, the daughter that’s meeting the twins, that goes to China to meet the twins, I don’t think it’s China actually, it’s one of the Asian countries, that would be my aunt. And then the story’s reflected in that movie are– if you ever talk to somebody that comes from any type of Asian upbringing, a lot of them and their family members will really empathize with almost every single one of those storylines, and I was shocked to know it because it’s so very accurate. A lot of my family, the women in my family, when we watch that show, my mom would say that’s how it was for your grandmother or your aunt, especially, you know, marrying up is a huge thing in Asian culture is marrying up. You never want to marry down, um, which I think is why my mom was also a bit of a black sheep was that she was never interested in a different family, so that two families could combine to be more of a power family. She was very much a rebel, like, “I’m gonna date this guy, he’s a loser, but I’m gonna date him 'cause you don’t like him.” Mom, and like I said, I don’t invalidate her feelings because when you’re young that’s just a totally different mindset, and one thing I get as an adult from my mom was cater to that inner child in her. I would often sit with her and say, “I want you to know that your experience as a child is valid. And if you’re okay to talk about it, I’m here for you.” And if you’re a daughter who had a tumultuous relationship with a mom like that, and you say that to her, it is– the silence that you will get is incredible. Um, but my mom did open up to me and that was like a huge bonding moment for us, was that experience for her. Um, I’m actually in the middle of a trial, um, back in 2012 I was a victim of rape, and actually within the last two days, I– one of my friends, the one person I confided in about being raped, she had actually sent me the article and said, “Hey, he was finally caught,” and there was a guy that I had been really close friends with for several years when I lived in Ohio, he was actually indicted on charges at the beginning of August, and this past week it had came to light that he had actually assaulted a seven-year-old child who actually happened to be his daughter. And the mother of his daughter was actually one of my closest friends, and although what he did to me was in 2012, he had actually kept raping women, and the whole time I thought I was alone in the situation, come to find out there is like an army of women that he was roofying and taking advantage of, and one of them actually got pregnant from it and she kept the baby, um, she’s very scared, and I’m just being there for her, but the reason why I’m speaking on it is because I told my mom that it had happened, I told her yesterday, I called her, I was like, um, you know, [Redacted] had raped me in 2012 and she knows [Redacted] and she was like, “Why didn’t you tell me? Why didn’t you– you should have spoken up.” And I was like, victims don’t often speak up 'cause in a society where it tells you you shouldn’t have drank or you shouldn’t have wore that, the last thing you need is for somebody to make you feel bad for wearing a t-shirt and then getting raped, and I was like, it’s not your fault that you get raped, but you don’t speak up 'cause you’re scared.

[Annotation 4]

[Annotation 9]

1:00:00

Um, so telling my mom that, um, I was expecting the hard part of my mom, like the, uh, I’m not sure what I’m thinking of 'cause she’s very strong willed, stone cold, definitive of a Scorpio, so I kind of expected her to be like, “Well you should have just known better, good luck,” but no, she in fact was just like, “Hey, I’m here for you, what do you need me to do to support you?” And I really contribute her reaction to what I’m going through right now in due part to the fact that I showed her that I was there for her, too. Like a safe place for her, and so she kind of reciprocated that energy to be there for me while I’m going through this whole trial, because I’m going to have to testify against him. I actually go on Wednesday or Thursday to go down and write my statement, um, and she’s actually going to be there to support me, um, I will say that when it did happen in 2012, before I blocked him off of everything, um, I had– I don’t know if Aid Access was around in 2012, but I never knew that I could do that, um, 'cause he had messaged me as kind of a sick joke. He had texted me and he said, “oh I don’t know where I finished.” And the, kind of like, the smoking gun to the whole thing was that I was actually grieving because I had a miscarriage in 2012 about four months prior to him and I hanging out, and the reason why I was with him that night was because he invited me out to watch his friends band play because I didn’t want to be alone 'cause I– I was having a hard time processing everything. So not only did he fake being a supportive friend, but he took advantage of somebody experiencing grieving a miscarriage. Um, so that was hard, and when he did say, “I don’t know where I finished,” and put a winky face after that text message, I was so terrified 'cause I was like, “I don’t have money for an abortion,” my mom wasn’t very pro-choice or anything at that point. I didn’t end up pregnant or anything, I didn’t have any STDs thankfully, um, but that experience in and of itself, from the trauma of experiencing getting raped by somebody you trusted for so long in your life, and then being scared that you might have to figure out how to get an abortion unless you have a child from rape, it’s super scary to experience by yourself, but it was nice that my mom was there to support me through this and my boyfriend, he’s been nothing but supportive, of course, naturally, um, to go through this with me. I’m okay, like my experience in 2012, it’s nerve racking to go through it again, and I’m gonna have to face him in court, but seeing, and hearing, and talking to the other victims, I made a comment on one of the posts that I was one of the victims, and I’ve had five women reach out to me already that he had did the same thing to. And once I saw that he had actually heard that he hurt his daughter, all bets were off, I was like, “I’m not scared, I’m going to do what I need to do,” because you can’t do that to children. So, that’s kind of what I’m going through now, um,  you know I’m not scared to put this man away. He’s facing life, he’s not eligible for parole until thirty years once he goes to trial,um, but yeah, once I heard that he had hurt a child is when I was like, “Whatever I’m afraid of it’s still valid, but there’s a child involved so it’s, you know, it’s high time to go and make sure that, you know, I speak, even if my voice shakes, even if I cry, I’m gonna do what– anything I can to ensure that the world knows that [Redacted] is not a safe person, in fact is a monster.”

[Annotation 8]

1:04:00

But it’s nice to have that support system from my mom and, yeah, everything my mom had been through, and she’s being so supportive and she’s validating me and always checking in on me. Sorry about that. Are there any other questions I can answer for you?

Um, [Redacted], thank you for sharing that piece of your story. I wanted to pivot slightly, 'cause I was curious if there was anything you wanted to share anecdotally about things like [Redacted] or anything, like, what it meant to be, uh, sort of a kid in these places?

Oh, [Redacted] was not what it is now back then. It was like really, really a mountain of trash, um, I love [Redacted], it used to have this state park, my high school, a guy that I dated in high school, we’d always frequent that area and it was just a safe place to go when you were a kid, um, they did have the stairs that you could walk up and down. The playground has changed since then. It used to be, um, the metal slides with the black rubber and I don’t know why I ever thought sliding down hot metal slides was just normal to experience, but I did it and I kept doing it, but yeah, they had the metal slides and it was really fun and I– I always think that it’s unique in a child’s perspective that place, that what it was, like, it was so kind of bare and a little desolate when I was younger, and there was just like a Golden Corral next door to it that we thought that that was just like paradise, the viewpoint from a child to see those things is incredible, like the imagination, just, there’s no bounds but when you look at it, if I was an adult to look at it, at that point, I’d be like, “Oh it doesn’t really offer much,” you know the lake was always, er, I don’t think it’s a lake, but like, yeah, it’s a lake on the big pond or whatever, it was always just, like, really yucky, so there was like you never wanted to go in there, and like people don’t swim in it now, but the jogging paths and everything were not there, the several other playgrounds weren’t there when I was younger, but it was just, like, one of those, like, fun little areas that you could go to and just hang out and feel safe. It was never a worry of, you know, getting kidnapped or anything, um, people did bring their dogs and, you know, most of it was pretty cool, and you could walk there, and a lot of times they had fireworks there, which were always, I mean they weren’t bad, but I’m glad they didn’t charge anybody, because it definitely wasn’t ever worth anything to pay for. Um, I did spend a lot of time at [Redacted] Mall which was like a huge part of my childhood, like, [Redacted] Mall, they had this– they used to have this huge carousel inside there that was kind of like the landmark for [Redacted] Mall and there was a huge indoor carousel, it had like all the bells and whistles of like your fantasy carousel, like the horses and the little benches and they did go up and down, and like the passageway to teenhood was working at the carousel ticket booth or working in the mall at [Redacted]. One of the stores at [Redacted], whether it was Dillards or Sears or JCPenney, um, and there was always– the Hot Topic back then was terrifying, like it was scary to go into, but now if you go to Hot Topic it’s great, it’s not scary at all. Um, I spent a lot of time at [Redacted] 'cause there was an arcade there called [Redacted], um, and it was– you were allowed to go there and just hang out, it was never you have to be a paying customer to be– it was never that. Um, Victoria Secret has stood the test of time, they’re still there, they were there when I was younger and they only got bigger. It used to be this super small store on the bottom floor and then it got huge and now it’s, I believe, it’s two stories of [Redacted], up and down, and they have this separate Pink store for the younger crowd, I say that, I’m 34, I’m still part of the younger crowd, but still it’s like the pink, decorated underwear and stuff, and I’m just like, “okay.” [Redacted] Mall is a big part of my childhood, obviously the beach, I will say within the last ten years the [area] has just boomed with attractions and tourism, and much like [Redacted], it was never like that. It was– you had the beach and then you had pizza places and, um, I’m trying to think [Pizza Place], which I don’t know if [Pizza Place] is still around, but [Pizza Place] and [Pizza Place] were just like, that’s what was down there, and then obviously you had a place [Redacted] which was bars and clubs.

1:10:00

[Redacted] Nightclub also stood the test of time, it’s still there, it’s like where when you turned 18 that’s exactly where you go, 'cause they used to have the cringy little teen nights when I was in school. It was like teen night, if you’re 16, there were preteens to I want to say 17, which when you think about it in retrospect is not a great idea because it could kind of flirt with the boundary of the whole Romeo and Juliet pedophile laws, 'cause it’s like 17, you’re going to have 13 and 17 year olds go to a club on teen night. You’re just asking for trouble, but [Redacted] was there. Um, and then what is down there now [Redacted] was just not there before. Like the huge, um, hotels that they have now that are just beautiful, I love what they did but I could never see myself back down there anymore, not in this economy. But, excuse me, they didn’t have the workout attractions there, give me one second, let me cough. Okay, I’m much better, um, they didn’t have the workout little area they do on the beach, I kind of think they were kind of what they did was they made it a bit of a smorgasbord for a mixture of like muscle beach and kind of like a theme park, which they did great at 'cause they have like small little theme park areas in it, I believe, and then they have a workout area, which is actually really popular on Tik Tok. A lot of Tik Toks are filmed in the workout area on the beach there. Um, and of course it’s like a huge [military presence] so a lot of, um, they call them, the locals call the wives married to military men dependents because they depend on their military husbands, their paycheck and things like that, um, so I often remember hearing a lot of jokes about military wives, um, that the jet noise, if I could describe my childhood by give a demographic, I would just say a lot of jet noise, and beach trips, and, you know, talking with counselors because of my personal experiences, but as far as like demographics go it was definitely a lot, you know, military jets and seeing the boats and, um, there’s a place [Redacted] it’s like an inlet and it’s like– like an indoor and outdoor strip mall, really great places to eat, a lot of locals go there 'cause they have a lot of local small businesses that offer like fudge and pizza, there was a Sbarro’s down there, which was incredible and they had a [Restaurant], which was one of the last [Restaurant] around, amazing and whoever got rid of [Restaurant], I’m just very disappointed in that, um, I frequented that area a lot. Um, the bare bones of [the area] is what I’m familiar with compared to the new and improved [area], I understand they’re just kind of staying relevant, but it’s– I miss the bare bones, I miss just like the desolate beaches where not a lot of people were like going to because Florida exists. But now it’s like, Florida is terrifying for people now and it’s when you see people talk about vacation, they now mention Virginia, and I love that for the area, but I hate it for the locals, because you lose the spots that were locals only like [Redacted], which is kind of on the richer side, but it is a private area that you can go to, um, [Redacted], and it’s kind of where, like, and this is funny to say, but it’s where the surfers would go, but Virginia doesn’t have waves, so it’s more like boogie boarding. Um, and that’s where like your locals would go, but now that Airbnbs and those type of ventures are huge hits, now it’s like no, you can no longer frequent [Redacted] unless you’re renting out an Airbnb there. Then you have [Redacted], which was my favorite area 'cause it, um, was right there, I’m trying to think of the location for it. It’s off [Redacted], which is like north [Redacted], north of [Redacted].

1:15:00

And it just offers, like, a semblance of, like, clear water and it’s like goes, like, maybe to your ankle, and like the sunset was perfect and beautiful, and they have condos there. But the people that live in the condos, last I had heard that they they weren’t selling out and there’s a pier there, and I don’t think it’s the pier that got destroyed, but, um, [Redacted] was like, if there was one beach that I could ever choose to live by a beach, it would just, very serene and unbothered and tourists did go there, but it would be boring to a tourist because it’s not near any big attractions, it’s just the beach and people fishing. And that’s literally it. That– that beach is a part of my childhood a lot because it was one of the places where I ever felt, you know, safe and I didn’t have, it was like my escape from reality so to speak. But I definitely would say that even now in its state that the area would be a good place to raise a family for sure. If you can afford it, 'cause it’s definitely more expensive now.

[Redacted], I also wanted to ask, thank you for sharing that,  but I also wanted to ask if you could give some details on just what the logistics are around co-parenting, the work that it takes to do, um, the kind of relationship that you have supporting your kids.

Oh man, okay, so co-parenting is hard. Zero percent do not recommend. But even though I don’t recommend it, it is a huge reality for, like, over half the people who have kids these days. It did not start easy. I want to say their dad and I broke up almost close to five years ago. Um, [Redacted] is 4, [Redacted] is 6, so probably about five or six years ago. Um, give me one second. Sorry about that. Um, so about five or six years ago we broke up. It took three years to even begin a good routine, I never took him to court for child support, I’m such a big believer in keeping children in the situation, children out of court when it comes to break ups, and co-parenting in that sense because lot of the time your children, you know, were made from love or at one point you did love each other to create them, so just because a break up happened doesn’t mean that both parents can’t be in the picture. Healthy, like in a healthy dynamic, and that’s easier said than done. It was a lot of, “Well now you’re single and I’m single, I can do exactly what I want,” and he actually moved on before I did and he thought, 'cause the tumultuous relationship that we had, he thought that because he moved on that I was out for murder, that I was gonna go buck wild and be angry and I absolutely wasn’t. He was so shocked by my response to him moving on, that he thought I was trapping him by being so supportive of it. Um, but I wasn’t. Him and his girlfriend have been on and off for a couple years I’d say. She’s great. The dynamic behind our co-parenting is that first things first that we figured out support, um, before the kids, now you can go off child support calculator, which is helpful sometimes, but sometimes it’s really unrealistic, I keep referring to the economy, but the economy is really hard right now. Um, we made it to where he could still live and I could still live while also supporting the kids’ wants and needs, extra curriculars, um, he does live about two hours away from me, um, he sees them every other weekend, it would be preferred if he could live closer in the [Redacted] area, but because of his job, it’s almost impossible for him to. We do make it work with every other weekend, um, but he does, I will say that he does, would love to see them more. I know a lot of people do two to three times a week, they’re called dinner visits to where the dad gets the kids from like after school to about six o’clock at night, um, that would be an incredible thing, dynamic for us, but it’s not realistic for us, um, and I can’t move towards that area 'cause my work here, I have to be within these two counties 'cause that’s where I work, but also, I have a bigger support system down here than going up there and thankfully he understands that, he doesn’t make me feel bad or anything about that.

1:20:00

Um, the, in a perfect world he would live a little bit closer and he could get them on like a Tuesday and Thursday and get them from school for the weekend every other weekend. But right now we just do every other weekend, and he does come down for like the first day of school, like their– he hasn’t missed a graduation, or our oldest plays basketball, he has missed a couple games, he doesn’t take it personal, her games are on the weekends, so sometimes he does, he is on call for his job, he works construction, but he will FaceTime me, so if it’s like a bigger, end of the year game, he’ll FaceTime me and he’ll watch what he can, um, there are moments though where like if we need extra money or, um, there’s a hard time at school for one of the kids, like our son has ADHD and anxiety. His anxiety is pretty up there, his ADHD, we finally got him the right treatment plan for him, but I will say before we got the treatment plan it was a hard, it was a hard thing for him, for his dad and I to communicate about it because between doctor visits, and school, and going to school to pick him up because his ADHD, a part of having ADHD is impulsive, he was running out of school, the cops were getting called between all of that, I didn’t think I had to be the one to reach out to him, the dad, and tell him an update on his son. I wholeheartedly felt that if you really were included and wanted to be a part of this, you would just know, let me call [Redacted], see how our son’s doing. And so we had to get through that, and the way we got through that was I didn’t do anything and he kind of came to the realization that there was a point where he was like, “I’m really sorry that I expected you to do all this footwork,” and I was just like, “it’s just reflective of the relationship we had, was that we were just coexisting and I was doing everything.” And I was like, “that’s not what we have anymore, and I’m holding you accountable for what you should be doing.” And this year actually was when he started getting better, more included and, you know, these, and like I said, echoing this, these things you just have to learn on your own. Like people can tell you, but until you’re– you have that realization for yourself it’s not gonna happen and he’s finally like asking, “Hey was their first day of school today,” you know, “how is this going and that going?” And it’s getting better, but it took years to get to this point, um, so the dynamic is always a work in progress but it could be a lot worse, and I’m pretty happy with how it is now. Um, the co-parenting with my youngest and her biological father, like I said, he’s not in the picture, um, he does pay child support, um, and that’s just taken out of his paycheck by the state. He actually has not seen her in over a year, we haven’t talked in over a year, um, now I don’t make any actions to like reach out to him or anything, and he doesn’t to me, but I do notice on occasion that I will, there was a point in time where he had made a Tik Tok to follow mine, I don’t have a huge following on Tik Tok compared to others, like I have 29,000, but it’s a public Tik Tok, obviously, but I noticed a time or two that he had made a Tik Tok account, and I would block it 'cause it’s weird, 'cause we don’t talk to each other, but he’s active on his own social media. Yeah, every now and then I’ll get a message from his sister-in-law. She just abhors him. She has the most disgust for him that I’ve ever seen, she hates him more than I do. Um, she’ll just– she’ll mention, like, him doing things and it’s very clear that he has a lot of growing up to do and, like I said, he battles his alcoholism and his own mental struggles and, you know, rooting for his success from a distance. As a mother I hurt for my child, but at the same time, my boyfriend now has stepped right into that role for my youngest. He is the only father figure that she knows and he’s incredible. Like he– and he’s not just there for her, he’s there for all of my kids.    

1:25:00

Like, he’s always asking, “Do you need any help with registration fees for ballet class?” Um, “do you want me to take some of the kids to the store so you can clean up?” I never have to ask him to be a parent, and he never– I never requested him to be a father for any of my kids, he just like stepped right into it. So what– what I don’t have with her biological father I do have with my boyfriend, and it’s like all the kids they have an active parent in their life, and, you know, for that I’m really privileged to have that, um, but the times where like at the beginning stages of becoming a single parent, it was hard. Like the mental struggles were pretty heavy, dealing with how am I gonna pay bills, or jealousy was a huge thing, 'cause, like, when me and my four kids’ dad broke up I was pregnant, and I had the kids, and he had to live with his dad up in [Redacted], which is a good almost four hours away. I was so jealous, 'cause I was like, “I’m big, I’m pregnant, I can’t go on dates.” I mean, I could go on dates, but that’s kind of dangerous when you’re pregnant. I was like, “He can go on dates, he’s doing whatever he wants, I’m here with kids.” Um, and it was just like, naturally the jealousy was there and then like going through postpartum, the hormones were just so insanely difficult. Um, but it all subsided, so I would say the dynamic around it will always start or always did start full of tension, it’s like, it’s like when a dog meets a cat, there’s tension there but eventually they learn their place and it works. Um, not to say that all cats and dogs get along, but for the most part it has its ups and downs and, like I said, it’s never linear, but at the end of the day, we make it work because children are involved. And, you know, my kids’ dad used to be like one of my good friends, so we still have that decent friendship but we have a respectful boundary there obviously. Um, so that’s our dynamic and I think it just progressively gets better every year.

Um, thank you [Redacted], and then my last question for today is just I’m curious if you just want to share a little bit about you. Where you are right now in terms of work, education, what you do for yourself, your self care, those kinds of things.

So now I’m actually in the last leg, I have two more terms left in my master’s degree. I’m going to Southern New Hampshire University for [Redacted]. Um, with a minor in finance, which is funny because I’m actually terrible at math and I don’t like finances, but I’m good at it, so that’s pretty incredible, and I actually do pretty well in it. Um, I actually plan on going back for my bachelor’s degree, I actually kind of want to break into the tech industry a little bit, um, you know, with society and how it is now with AI. AI is just really taking over and I’d really like to be involved in the progress of that, and I also think the tech industry just really offers a lot of things, um, a lot of things come from like just tech, there’s just so many– there’s just like endless opportunities that you can do.

 1:30:00

Um, originally I wanted to go to school for something with human, um, services, to help people, but the pay and the demand for it is just not realistic, especially with kids, and I love helping people, which it helps me adminning the abortion group, support group gives me that ability to help people, um, so I’m still able to do something that I really love doing in that manner. Um, but my master’s degree will still help put me into like a Human Resources position, which I’ll still be helping people and I’ll still be there, which is really great. Um, I do that, I’ve been doing that since 2017 with my Bachelor’s included. That’s probably one of my biggest accomplishments was getting a Bachelor’s because, uh, I want to say my mom got her Associate’s but she didn’t go back for her Bachelor’s so she’s really proud of me for that. Um, as far as work, I actually work from home. I work for the county here and I am what they call a court researcher, so I collect court cases, specific court cases depending on which project I’m a part of. Right now it’s civil cases, so it deals with a lot of businesses and, um, malpractice, breach of contract, and I just kind of go through the court case itself reading the things behind it, and I just make sure that they’re filed correctly and that there aren’t, like, it’s like making sure that a breach contract isn’t in a foreclosure file, kind of. And then I do that for two counties here, so it’s a lot, and you see a lot of interesting cases, like, one of the funniest cases, and this is all public record, so it’s okay to discuss it, but I obviously can’t say specific names. One of the funniest cases was a person was suing a well-established food restaurant here for a worker taking a bite out of their food, so they ordered another one, they got the same meal, and the same worker took another bite out of their food, and I was like, “This is personal.” And then another funny case that I thought was hilarious was a scorned woman was suing an ex for emotional damages because he cheated, allegedly cheated. And she might win the case for $25,000. I’m just like, you can sue people for anything. And I’m like, “if it’s offered and you think it will help, I support it.” Um, what else do I do? I’m trying, sometimes it’s a little bit difficult to talk about myself, 'cause my whole– I try really hard to not make my entire identity a mother. But, you know, with five kids, as you can see, sometimes that’s all I can be for a day is a mom. But, I really enjoy my work. I do like helping, you know, the abortion support group. I’m actively part of my kids’ school and helping their teachers and everything. There is a group here that’s downtown [Redacted], it’s– it helps with at-risk youth. I do a lot of– unfortunately I do a lot of armchair activism for them because I can’t always make it to downtown [Redacted] to be actively there, but also it’s not exactly safe to bring children into the area where the– I don’t want to call it a shelter, but the activity center is. Not really safe for, you know, a woman with five young children to be there. But I do a lot of armchair activism for them and it’s just kind of helping the at-risk youth in [Redacted] to not go down the same paths that they’re used to seeing. So it’s kind of helping them get away from the toxicity, and surprisingly enough, a lot of it was brought on by the gentrification of downtown [Redacted], and this is kind of where the passion comes in is that, you know, the sitting board members, they’re like, “Cool. Gentrification, let’s do this to [Redacted], let’s do this to the inner cities.” All they care about in my opinion, is building these huge luxury homes and apartments, what they don’t realize is that they’re pushing these people out into places they can’t afford. They’re not offering, “Hey we’re going to be building, we’re gonna take your home by eminent domain and we’re gonna give you a couple thousand for it.” A couple thousand is not gonna get you much of anywhere, you know? Especially in this economy. And I live in [Redacted], which is not exactly considered a high price of living, but for people in the inner city, it is a high price of living, especially a lot of people downtown, they take the bus to work and they work around downtown [Redacted]. The livable places in [Redacted] are on the outskirts of [Redacted] where they won’t have that transportation, so it’s kind of a lose-lose situation for them. Um, so there’s just been like an uptick in people needing help, naturally, and I know this is everywhere for sure. Um, so I like to help them as much as I can, um, and in this area too, there’s a lot of places that need help with– they need, like, utility help, the angel tree around Christmas, I really do like doing the angel tree for families, basically you can say I just really like helping people.

01:36:00

Something else I really like doing, sorry. I do enjoy gardening, I’m not the best at it. So the gardening my grandmother taught me how to do was, like, self-sustaining, like, growing your own carrots, which ironically, carrots have not been the easiest to grow this year, um, you know, like, gardening your own food. I’ve been trying to garden for like flowers and stuff, and that’s a whole different world. Plant people are scary, like, when you ask the questions, you’re like “Can you tell me about a Monstera or a Pothos?” And they’re just like– they will say things that sound like a different language to you. I’m trying, like I’m trying to get into making, you know, like those decorative plants, and the money trees and things like that, 'cause I think that’s such a cool and therapeutic hobby to have, so I’m trying to get into that. Haven’t really been able to commit fully, I do enjoy going to greenhouses a lot and the conservatory here. We have this place called [Redacted] where it’s just, basically it’s just a huge greenhouse, and a lot of times, I wanna say half the year, they have a butterfly exhibit, um, so it’s pretty cool 'cause you get to experience the butterflies and stuff, versus having to go to the zoo and go to the butterfly room, which the zoo can be a little bit expensive, but [Redacted]– I think they used to be free, but I think it’s like $12 to get in. And I like this year actually we picked up hiking, so I’m becoming outdoorsy. I used to be severely indoors–y so, like, lockdown for me was heaven, but I’m trying to get– be more of an active outside person and so hiking is a lot of fun, um, just kind of discovering different suggested places to go hike, and like there are like waterholes and stuff like that, I still won’t go into creek water, or like water, I won’t go into it, I’m like, “I see what’s in there, I don’t want to go into it.” Um, so beyond my job, I also do like other side jobs with [Redacted]. It's, um, it’s not, no it is 1099, where it’s just like really good side money. Um, passive income, it’s really nice. It’s ran by a guy named, I think his name is [Redacted]. His name is [Redacted], but I can never pronounce his last name, really good guy. The communication’s great, I do side gigs, the company name is [Redacted]. And the cool thing about it is I get to pick when I want to work, and what they do is, you go to the website and it’ll say “open campaigns'' and it’s basically different projects that you can do, and the last project was actually around tax season, it was TurboTax, and I want to say that was like from April to the end of October last year, and I was on that project and it was really nice because I needed some extra income around that time, and you get to pick your own hours, you can work as much as you want or as little as you want. Back track, I don’t believe– you can’t work over forty hours or thirty two hours, because if it’s a 1099 job, they don’t offer benefits, you know? So you pretty much can work when you want, obviously just not over that, uh, x amount of time. Um, they do offer like the good training, I couldn’t recommend it enough but that’s just like a passive income. My main income is working, the company is called [Redacted]? Yeah,  Legal Services, um, and that’s what I do for work, hobbies, I talked about my hobbies, I’m always thinking about the mindset of learning, so anything like the mindset of learning and helping people are passions for me, so anything that involves that I will always, I’ll always give it one go to see if I like it, and if it’s something that I enjoy then I’ll keep it a consistent thing for myself.

1:40:00

I know I said that was the last question, but I actually have one final question. Um, and I know that being a mother is a big part of your identity, but aside from the labor of just being a mom, is there anything anecdotally you want to share about things you enjoy doing with your kids or strong memories with them or anything like that?

Oh man, so many. One of my biggest things, um, so like with my upbringing that you got to hear about, my biggest thing when I became a mom was ensuring that my kids and I had memories, so I always make it a huge thing for myself to make sure that I give them memories, and what we love doing a lot is we create traditions like Christmas time, and this is a common tradition is like cooking and baking together, and making gingerbread houses together. That’s like a staple in our house, and we always put the Christmas tree up together, and one of the big things in my home is that we eat together. Like, I’ll cook and the kids get their food first obviously, and then we all sit down, and like no electronics obviously, and we just talk and we get to have that human interaction with each other 'cause, you know growing up we didn’t have the whole tablet and iPad and send me a screenshot, if you would’ve told me that when I was growing up, I’d be like, “What is a screenshot?” But now kids are growing up and it’s like technology is second nature, like, they– my kids now have an entire period dedicated to working on their Chrome books or their iPads. That would be unheard of back then, and so I really just like to ensure that they still have that human experience, like, it’s like, yeah we eat dinner every night at the table together, like that’s what we do, and like that’s an every night thing, and if we do do take out  we still eat at the table. We eat together, no electronics. Something we like to do a lot of is I instilled, implemented chores this year, now that they’re getting a little bit older. They love doing their chores together, and they like racing about it. I haven’t implemented, um, an allowance because kids, you can say, “What do you want your allowance to be?” And they will say, “$50 a week.” And so, I haven’t instilled that, but they love doing chores together, and they like learning together. Um, I’m trying to word this properly, when there’s a new experience to do like going to a new park or, um, something that they’re not familiar with, I try to make it like a core memory that, like, for example, we went to a new park that had like a pretty significant hill climb to a slide, and one of my kids was very intimidated by it. And they got half way up and they froze, and they looked to me, and naturally you’re just kind of like, “Here come to me, I got you,” but me I just kind of like, “No, no, no, this is an important moment.” I looked at them and I said, “Okay, you’re stuck, right?” He said, “yeah, can you come get me?” I said, “I can come get you, but what’s your plan? What’s your plan to get unstuck?” And the reason why I do that, and I want to make it such a core memory for them, is that when they’re in a situation in life where they’re stuck, they’re first initial reaction is, let me figure out how to get unstuck before I feel helpless, and you like look around at what can help you before you feel like you’re defeated, um, and the end of that was they ended up going upward again, like, “just go forward, it’s okay, you’re coming right back down.” But I like to make those core memories because I feel like, although they’re children, you’re still raising them to be adults in society one day, and I’m not gonna be here forever, so I really like making memories with them that they can learn from and remember and take with them for years to come. And hopefully pass down into their own children and to kind of, you know, I guess it’s called breaking generational curses in the sense that they’re not gonna feel helpless like I did, and that they have a mom that was actively encouraging them and supporting them while they did dangerous things. There’s a guy named Jordan Peterson, um, now his views can be controversial sometimes, but sometimes his little quotes and stuff are really true, there was one of him saying, “support your children while they do dangerous things,” basically, and that kind of stuck with me, I’ve kind of helped them not be afraid to face big moments in their life, but to be able to face it and know that they’re not alone. 'Cause I’ve felt so alone in a lot of my childhood and I wanted to make sure that I didn’t pass that down to my children. So, those are things that we do, I’m so sorry. We like making new memories that teach us life lessons and like even for funsies we do a lot of ice cream trips, especially with the summer that we’ve been having 'cause it’s been so hot, just so incredibly hot. Um, ice cream trips are huge, I guess you could say we’re a dessert family, a dessert and baking family. And, um, you know lately my oldest has been into video games, and she’s teaching me that, so while I love teaching them things, they really, really like teaching me things, so she’s teaching me how to play Fortnite. And I’m like, “okay, this is interesting,” now obviously I have the settings on there, there’s no chat ability, no mic, or things like that. I do what I need to do to make sure that they’re protected, so it’s an ever growing, new experiences for us, is a big theme for us and that’s what I love doing with them. She likes climbing.

Uh, [Redacted], thank you, are there any final words you want to end our time together with?

I am always open to anybody who might need a safe place, to need help, or to talk, or even just an advocate for them. I’m always a safe place, you can put my information out there for people who need help, um, if anybody in your project or, you know, the organization ever needs somebody to share experiences or, like, anything, I’m always open and available to help in any way that I can.

Thank you so much [Redacted], I’m going to go ahead and stop the recording.

Okay.